tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post6563176143916927669..comments2023-05-10T02:47:51.886-07:00Comments on GOSSELINS DO NOT NEED OUR PITY: New Episode Tonight - July 4th CelebrationsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-55190907542044773272008-08-29T06:13:00.000-07:002008-08-29T06:13:00.000-07:00I think you are right Guinevere. It is a double ed...<B>I think you are right Guinevere. It is a double edge sword and he is in a no-win situation. I am perplexed by Kate's control issues though. On the one hand, she wants everything done her way and wants to be in charge (which I totally get) but then she does this whole helpless thing (like making him set the GPS or not being able to put gas in the car etc.) </B><BR/><BR/>Sometimes, when people go through this struggle ("I want independence but I'm dependent") there can be a need to be taken care of. Everyone has that need growing, some get it met, some don't. Sometimes people who are "overly" taken care of or left to fend for themselves with carry this pathological need in adulthood to have their needs met.<BR/><BR/>COntrol is a life long, learned, entrenched defense mechanism. It may be that those who learn it cannot trust that anyone outside of themselves will meet their needs (though they so desperately want to be proven wrong). But, it's safer to manage and control than make oneself vulnerable for rejection. People who keep their world in order like that can tend to use that as a way to avoid emotions. Not every day emotions, the tough ones that you'd rather not feel or remember. <BR/><BR/>That said, since I've never met Kate, this is certainly not a diagnosis...I could never ethically determine anything about her from a television show. I'm just talking about a pattern for people who have control issues in general.EveryoneLovesErinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430233139773353519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-91488855111382836922008-08-28T15:31:00.000-07:002008-08-28T15:31:00.000-07:00My take was going to be exactly like Anya's - Kate...My take was going to be exactly like Anya's - Kate is, I think, very insecure, and tends to be super-emphatic about the stuff she thinks she knows - the right way to do this or that. But in situations where she's not the expert, she'd rather not even learn, because it threatens her sense of control.<BR/><BR/>This is my pop-psych take on it. I don't pretend to have any training in human behavior, except for a couple of psychology classes, and obviously I don't know Kate IRL. But I do feel like I've known a few women who were like her in certain respects. Hell, *I'm* like her in certain respects! I would not walk barefoot on a hotel room carpet, either! But I don't pretend that *I'm* right about it; I know it's just my neuroses speaking. Also, the way she can be very overcautious with the kids - I can relate to that a lot.<BR/><BR/>Kate drives, as far as I know. But I think she doesn't like to drive the big van, and maybe that was all they had with them on the trip? I don't know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-16751424756619492182008-08-28T14:16:00.000-07:002008-08-28T14:16:00.000-07:00Genev: You are absolutely right on concerning the...Genev: You are absolutely right on concerning the double edged sword, I think.<BR/><BR/>And someone mentioned above that the reason Jon had to be in the hair salon was that Kate doesn't drive? Since when doesn't she drive? I'm sure I've seen her driving.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-47425516779318235952008-08-28T13:56:00.000-07:002008-08-28T13:56:00.000-07:00MrsRef said... I am perplexed by Kate's control is...<B> MrsRef said... <BR/><BR/>I am perplexed by Kate's control issues though. On the one hand, she wants everything done her way and wants to be in charge (which I totally get) but then she does this whole helpless thing (like making him set the GPS or not being able to put gas in the car etc.) </B><BR/><BR/>This is an interesting observation I hadn't given much thought to before, but I do agree with you.<BR/><BR/>In thinking about it, Kate reminds me of my aunt. My aunt wants to be control and in charge of everything in her life that she feels confident and/or competent in. If she doesn't feel confident and/or competent (or it doesn't interest her), she plays the "helpless card" every time. She also has a built-in excuse because she is very near-sighted (which is valid in some instances, but she uses it for EVERYTHING she doesn't want to deal with).<BR/><BR/>So that's my take. Maybe this has something to do with Kate's dual personality, i.e. if she's not 100%confident of her abilities in something, she doesn't want to be in charge of it.<BR/><BR/>Just speculating!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-42000999232335734902008-08-28T13:33:00.000-07:002008-08-28T13:33:00.000-07:00I think you are right Guinevere. It is a double e...I think you are right Guinevere. It is a double edge sword and he is in a no-win situation. I am perplexed by Kate's control issues though. On the one hand, she wants everything done her way and wants to be in charge (which I totally get) but then she does this whole helpless thing (like making him set the GPS or not being able to put gas in the car etc.) As a mother of 2 girls, I want them to be able to take care of such things without a man - change a tire, get directions, operate equipment and stuff. It is almost a safety issue like in the case of changing a tire or something. I also want my son to be able to cook, clean and take care of himself if there is no woman in the picture. It is 2008 and there should be no "damsels in distress." What is your take on this?MrsRefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08796830470013840532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-42406893186385137752008-08-28T12:26:00.000-07:002008-08-28T12:26:00.000-07:00I'm glad someone mentioned about stepfathers becau...<B>I'm glad someone mentioned about stepfathers because more than once, although I know it is certainly not the case, I have thought Jon was treated as a stepfather (treated by Kate) to these kids in that she always has the last word or nearly always and seems to be the definitive authority on all things pertaining to the kids and really everything in their lives. Maybe that's just what we see on TV, but I've known families who have blended and sometimes the stepdad is too passive to step up and step in and speak his mind and change a situation. How odd it is that sometimes Jon (although I think he is a funny and nice guy) is just too deferential for the good.</B><BR/><BR/>I think you're giving Jon too much credit and not enough blame for the situation. I suspect he prefers in general not to have the responsibility of "the final say". I think for both of them it's a double-edged sword, because he doesn't really want the responsibility of being in charge, but he resents Kate for her bossiness and my-way-or-the-highway attitude, whereas Kate wants him to help more and "step up", but she's so controlling that she gets anxious when he does, either because of her loss of control, or because he's not doing things as she would do them, or both.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-46636705747197129152008-08-28T11:46:00.000-07:002008-08-28T11:46:00.000-07:00GLO said... "Jon and Kate seem to have some conce...GLO said... <BR/><B> "Jon and Kate seem to have some concerns about Joel's behavior in regards to him being too feminine, which would be completely unfounded in a four-year-old with five sisters. I think that is why Kate sent him away from the cake decorating. She may be trying to steer him into being more "manly." </B><BR/><BR/>Perhaps. We have seen they have very rigid (in my opinion) ideas about gender roles. That said, I really thought the whole Joel-didn't-get-to-help-with-the-cake "fuss" might have a simple explanation. 1) Joel's hands probably weren't clean (to Kate's satisfaction anyway) and 2) He came late to the cake making and Kate already had enough "helpers". Not saying she shouldn't have let him help, but she already was managing the five girls.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-73522501726083284082008-08-28T10:16:00.000-07:002008-08-28T10:16:00.000-07:00Oh, I don't believe anyone ever said the camer...Oh, I don't believe anyone ever said the cameraman was there to exploit the kids. Come on.<BR/><BR/>I thought it was very cute that Aaden had that exchange with someone he obviously knew and really probably wanted to know why his friend wasn't having a piece of cake, too. All the kids are just so personable, each in their own way.<BR/><BR/>Figure 8, if they are exploiting the kids, could not do it without K&J. So their cameraman, come on. Maybe you were joking about that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-58758705806279884472008-08-28T10:12:00.000-07:002008-08-28T10:12:00.000-07:00I'm glad someone mentioned about stepfathers becau...I'm glad someone mentioned about stepfathers because more than once, although I know it is certainly not the case, I have thought Jon was treated as a stepfather (treated by Kate) to these kids in that she always has the last word or nearly always and seems to be the definitive authority on all things pertaining to the kids and really everything in their lives. Maybe that's just what we see on TV, but I've known families who have blended and sometimes the stepdad is too passive to step up and step in and speak his mind and change a situation. How odd it is that sometimes Jon (although I think he is a funny and nice guy) is just too deferential for the good. Like Hyacinth and Richard in the old Brit-com "Keeping Up Appearances", I long to see Jon (like Richard) finally say to Kate "Sit down and shut up".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-70042519116929418582008-08-28T08:48:00.000-07:002008-08-28T08:48:00.000-07:00I do not believe mrsref was trying to imply that K...I do not believe mrsref was trying to imply that Kate should be submissive to Jon. She was just responding to my assertion that more traditional gender roles appear to be fairly common in people who have a strong Christian faith. That is not to say that all Christians subscribe to traditional gender roles or that they should do so. <BR/><BR/>IMO, Jon and Kate seem to have some concerns about Joel's behavior in regards to him being too feminine, which would be completely unfounded <BR/>in a four-year-old with five sisters. I think that is why Kate sent him away from the cake decorating. She may be trying to steer him into being more "manly."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-23334443157660664302008-08-27T22:06:00.000-07:002008-08-27T22:06:00.000-07:00The whole submissive issue aside, I really wish th...<B>The whole submissive issue aside, I really wish they would show a little more respect to each other, especially in front of the kids.</B><BR/><BR/>They're both guilty of it, I agree. Kate shouldn't call Jon a 'ding dong' in front of his kids. It's kindergarten 101: no name calling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-18119616536895512982008-08-27T20:46:00.000-07:002008-08-27T20:46:00.000-07:00Anon at 5:50 p.m. "I really wish they would show a...<B> Anon at 5:50 p.m. <BR/><BR/>"I really wish they would show a little more respect to each other, especially in front of the kids." </B><BR/><BR/>I don't disagree with you. It would seem a united front would be even more important when you are outnumbered the way they are! That said, I think they are who they are. They communicate the way they communicate. I don't think we are going to change them. I don't think they will change unless *they* together conclude they need to do better.<BR/><BR/><B> "I also wish that Jon would step for the kids. I had a step-father who sat and watched as my mother reigned terror on 4 of her 6 children..." </B><BR/><BR/>I am sorry for what you have gone through and I agree the parent who sits back and lets the other parent abuse a child is just as responsible as the abuser.<BR/><BR/>That said, I have to strongly disagree with your assertion (I think this is what you are suggesting) that Kate "reigns terror" on her family. I just haven't seen that. Some mistakes in parenting - sure. But, nothing that personally leads me to think that Jon needs to step in for the purpose of controlling Kate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-44558463176504389542008-08-27T17:50:00.000-07:002008-08-27T17:50:00.000-07:00The whole submissive issue aside, I really wish th...The whole submissive issue aside, I really wish they would show a little more respect to each other, especially in front of the kids. I also wish that Jon would step for the kids. I had a step-father who sat and watched as my mother reigned terror on 4 of her 6 children and he never said a word. I have zero respect for him as a result of his complacency while she tore our family apart. Sorry but I get a little passionate over this issue. Just sometimes you have to speak up for your kids because they can't always speak for themselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-69382579959322675482008-08-27T14:52:00.000-07:002008-08-27T14:52:00.000-07:00Guinevere said... "If he has a problem with her, h...<B> Guinevere said... <BR/>"If he has a problem with her, he needs to vocalize it, and not under his breath or behind his back. She treats him like one of her kids at times, but he acts like one of her kids, at times." </B><BR/><BR/>True. He also rolls his eyes a lot in true teenager fashion.<BR/><BR/>I gotta believe their relationship works for them. They have been married 10 years, right?<BR/><BR/>Maybe just maybe he LIKES her to be in charge. If I were going into battle, I think I might want Kate Gosselin on my side!<BR/><BR/>Seriously, I am sure their relationship has many complexities that we are not privy to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-819637355388391412008-08-27T14:14:00.000-07:002008-08-27T14:14:00.000-07:00Yup, I did notice that Jon seemed a little nit pic...<B>Yup, I did notice that Jon seemed a little nit picky during the interview session but I think these two might have that kind of relationship. Kind of a "gotcha" thing. I don't understand why, but I don't think of it as a sign they are sick of each other and are getting divorced LOL! Might just even be that they are simply tired. I'm really cranky when I'm tired!</B><BR/><BR/>I don't mind them being kind of kidding-mean to each other. It may appall some people, but it mostly seems to work for them. There are times when I've sensed a little more tension, the feeling that it's not quite all kidding. That's a little uncomfortable to watch. It certainly doesn't mean that they are headed for divorce court! <BR/><BR/>That said, IMO (not that J&K asked me), they need better communication. Kate needs to learn to let go a bit (okay, a lot); if she wants help from Jon, she needs to let him do stuff his way. Even if it's not the best way, in her mind, she undermines her own requests for help by micromanaging. Jon needs to stop being so damn passive-aggressive. If he has a problem with her, he needs to vocalize it, and not under his breath or behind his back. She treats him like one of her kids at times, but he acts like one of her kids, at times. As Kate would say, it's not attractive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-60950464418488869912008-08-27T12:41:00.000-07:002008-08-27T12:41:00.000-07:00As I look back, I realize that there were many mom...As I look back, I realize that there were many moments in episodes where I thought how polite the children were for their age. At least the tups. They are also very affectionate with each other, kissing and hugging. I used to tell my twins to hug and kiss and make up when they had a quarrel or one would grab the other's toy. And yes! They did do things that weren't nice. Imagine that! 2 and 3 year olds grabbing and bashing LOL!<BR/><BR/>I enjoyed the 4th of July episode. I recorded it and watched it last night (so I can fast forward through the commercials) and it had me remember fondly my husband's family vacations to Virginia Beach. <BR/>There were always tons of kids around and some were whining, others were happy. Just depended on the time of day. <BR/><BR/>Yup, I did notice that Jon seemed a little nit picky during the interview session but I think these two might have that kind of relationship. Kind of a "gotcha" thing. I don't understand why, but I don't think of it as a sign they are sick of each other and are getting divorced LOL! Might just even be that they are simply tired. I'm really cranky when I'm tired!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-61387863649426077132008-08-27T12:16:00.000-07:002008-08-27T12:16:00.000-07:00I didn't say Jon should be in charge. I was answer...<B>I didn't say Jon should be in charge. I was answering a question posed about the Christian perspective of it all. Without getting into a big discussion, the Bible states that the man is the head of the house. That would be Jon. The Bible says the woman should submit to his authority that would be Kate.</B><BR/><BR/>Eh. The Bible says a lot of things that contemporary Christians ignore, in my experience. I haven't heard J or K say anything that indicates they believe she should be submissive to him. So I'm thinking it's a non-issue for them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-92128922403295169912008-08-27T12:10:00.000-07:002008-08-27T12:10:00.000-07:00mrsref,My brothers and sisters were raised in the ...mrsref,<BR/><BR/>My brothers and sisters were raised in the 60's in a Catholic household. My mother made sure all of us were able to cook and clean and we all had inside jobs assigned as well as outside jobs. To this day my brother's wives thank my mom for doing that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-35539571919080374822008-08-27T11:47:00.000-07:002008-08-27T11:47:00.000-07:00I didn't say Jon should be in charge. I was answe...I didn't say Jon should be in charge. I was answering a question posed about the Christian perspective of it all. Without getting into a big discussion, the Bible states that the man is the head of the house. That would be Jon. The Bible says the woman should submit to his authority that would be Kate. And it "sounds" to me like she thinks boys are disgusting. She has said it several times. After turning Joel away from the cake decorating, she pointed out once again how icky and disgusting boys are. Words hurt especially when they are spoken by your own parents.MrsRefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08796830470013840532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-91054759181869735432008-08-27T11:03:00.000-07:002008-08-27T11:03:00.000-07:00Do you believe that Jon *should* be in charge? I a...Do you believe that Jon *should* be in charge? I am not Christian, but I guess I don't see that as a requirement of all Christians, at least not one that the Christians I know worry much about. I do think the Gosselins have weird gender issues, though.<BR/><BR/>I think Kate goes overboard with the "boys are yucky" business, but I also don't think she means much by it. She's just a germaphobe, and her perception is that girls are more fastidious (and maybe her girls are, though in my experience most 4-year-olds need a little help in attending to personal hygiene). Nevertheless, she should cool it with the statements, I think. I just don't think she means that the boys are "disgusting" in as bad a way as it sounds.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-78075521442393892472008-08-27T10:38:00.000-07:002008-08-27T10:38:00.000-07:00Glo: I agree with you about the more "traditional...Glo: I agree with you about the more "traditional" households. I don't know what goes on behind closed doors at the G's but it does not seem that Jon is in charge at all. It does seem contrary to what they claim to believe. I do think the gender roles they assign are very sad. Boys are not disgusting and dirty - in fact my son was the most loving and affectionate of all of my children. He is getting married in October and it makes me sad for the days when he was my little boy. His wife to be is very lucky though, he can cook, clean and do laundry as we did not do the gender thing. I remember his pre-school teacher commenting because when they played house, he was the daddy and did the cooking. She thought it was strange until we explained that my husband did the cooking at our house too. (he worked nights and I worked days to avoid daycare)MrsRefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08796830470013840532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-56842116049699584312008-08-27T10:24:00.000-07:002008-08-27T10:24:00.000-07:00On another subject to the people who run this site...On another subject to the people who run this site: I love the picture of "best friends" you have on your first page today. Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-16508758374157977242008-08-27T09:45:00.000-07:002008-08-27T09:45:00.000-07:00mrsref: "I do not see Jon being the head of the ho...mrsref: "I do not see Jon being the head of the household and Kate submitting."<BR/><BR/>That is one of the reasons why I find it so perplexing that Jon and Kate appear to be so rigid in the gender roles they assign and expect from their children. On the other hand, I have always been under the impression that in most "traditional" households, like my grandparents, the woman's voice was heard and it was more of an equal partnership behind closed doors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-86375119151654312362008-08-27T06:57:00.001-07:002008-08-27T06:57:00.001-07:00Glo: I agree that their gender roles are asinine....Glo: I agree that their gender roles are asinine. I grew up in a Christian home and like to think that I have provided one for my children also. The concept is basically that the man is the head of the household (as Christ is the head of the Church) and the woman is to submit (to the man's authority as head of the house) For all the seemingly rigid gender stereotyping they do, I do not see Jon being the head of the household and Kate submiting. I have two girls 29,27 and a boy 24. We never worried about him playing with the girls dolls anymore than we worried about my girls playing baseball. He was actually neater and cleaner than the girls. My son can cook, clean and do laundry and my girls can all work power tools! It broke my heart when Kate wouldn't let Joel help with the cake. Some of the best chefs are men!!!!!!!!!!MrsRefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08796830470013840532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-875099505545555742.post-38640785847309060962008-08-27T06:18:00.000-07:002008-08-27T06:18:00.000-07:00And they have 6 four year old siblings. Perhaps t...And they have 6 four <BR/>year old siblings. Perhaps there is some regression for attention. Happens all the time with older siblings when there are younger children in the home. Kids who were potty trained can start to wet themselves. Things of that nature. <BR/><BR/>These things happen in many, many everyday families that don't have cameras in the home.EveryoneLovesErinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430233139773353519noreply@blogger.com