Thursday, July 31, 2008

RANDOM THOUGHTS


Not everything on television needs to be an example of how we should be. Role models should be our parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, teachers and people we interact with in the community.

Not everyone who enjoys Jon & Kate Plus 8 is a "sheeple."

Not everyone who does not enjoy Jon & Kate Plus 8 is a "hater."

If Kate were super nice, did not have any issues and said nothing but sweet caring remarks to Jon, would people still want the show cancelled???? Would the issues still be the same and carry the same passion?

Does it really make a difference where Kate received her degree, what type of degree it is and what the curriculum was when she attended (one person commented on another blog that she had "checked the curriculum at Kate's nursing school prior to the changes they made a year or two ago and pediatric development wasn't on the list of classes. That might explain Kate's apparent lack of knowledge.")

Did the person mentioned above ever stop to think that would mean all the nurses that had graduated with the same curriculum would have the same "lack of knowledge?"

Does the person who just sent an e-mail to the e-mail address at this blog asking me to visit a Jesus is the Lord. com site think I need to find religion?

How many seconds, minutes, hours and days of our time have we all spent blogging about Jon and Kate Plus 8? Could our time be better spent on something else or is this a form of entertainment for us or a way to release stress?

Those are just a few of the random thoughts going through my head today as I surfed the internet. Tell us a few of yours.



45 comments:

Anonymous said...

Would the National Enquirer article exist had a certain group of people not bombarded the tabloid with e-mails and written the article for them?

Sosa said...

What really happened to Aunt Jodi and Uncle Kevin? Does Kate have that kind of power to make them completely disappear? Maybe Aunt Jodi will write a book and then everyone can sleep again at night.

Anonymous said...

Do the people who support this show continuing really feel that these children are not being harmed or do they want it to continue because they are selfish and are thinking about there own enjoyment?

anya said...

Do the people who blog 24/7 saying negative things about the Gosselin parents think they are "helping" the situation? If they believe the children are being harmed, do they have any concern that they are driving the hype and causing new viewers to turn in and increase the ratings? Have they themselves stopped watching the show completely so they cannot be counted as a viewer???

Sosa said...

Everyone spends so much time hating Kate that Jon gets a pass on everything.

Anonymous said...

That e-mailing and calling the school that Kate attended to find out what curriculum they had, a bit creepy and stalkerish? Especially since she's a stay at home mom and not treating patients? Why is this information relevant, otherwise?

That posting names and addresses of family members not involved with the show is creepy and stalkerish?

That sending a Hater who lives in the same area as Jon and Kate to their house with a camera to take drive by pictures of what basically amounts to a "no trespassing" sign on their lawn is one of the reason WHY the sign appeared in the first place?

That pumping online family members for information and pretending to be their friends (until their usefulness wears off) is wrong?

That the family members that fall for this tactic and trust perfect strangers with that information may be doing more harm to the kids than anyone? You never know who is really on the other end of that keyboard.

Guinevere said...

Quote: Do the people who support this show continuing really feel that these children are not being harmed or do they want it to continue because they are selfish and are thinking about there own enjoyment?

Speaking for myself, I do not feel the children are being harmed. I can't predict the future so I can't say that none of the children will have negative feelings about the show later in life, but I think both the filming of the show and the way that J&K raise their kids both fall into the category of "probably not the way I'd do it, but that doesn't make it wrong."

I call people "haters" if they watch the show and blog about the show, and have nothing positive to say. I'm not sure what else to call them. I wouldn't apply the term to someone who watches and enjoys the show, but sometimes has qualms about J&K or has something negative to say about some aspect of the show as a whole or a particular episode.

Part of the problem for me is that the haters' message is such a confused one. I mean, they are really, really worried about the kids, but not so worried that they can't also make fun of the show (with the various parodies they link to), fun of Kate's ass or her earrings (which relates to the Gosselins being abusive how?), or pick on tiny little issues (parsing the sentences that come out of Kate's mouth in an effort to make her look stupid).

I know the blog owners have said that "dach post reflects the author's opinion, not necessarily that of the group", but it really dilutes their message to mash up the supposedly serious accusations they have made against Jon & Kate (especially Kate) Gosselin with the numerous petty (some of them extremely petty) issues. "Snark" and grave concern do not mix, IMO. It makes it very hard not to see GWoP as anything but a big ball of negativity and, yes, hate. The fact that they seem to only publish a sprinkling of contrary opinions (if my and others' experiences are anything to go by) also does not help their credibility.

I agree that Jon often gets a pass. In one way, I understand it - Kate's bad behavior is often somewhat more in-your-face, and Jon is a lot more mellow. But it bugs me when posters hold Kate responsible for things that obviously are or should be joint decisions, usually parenting stuff. The only thing that annoys me more is when she's held responsible for the producers' decisions, like, "Does Kate really think we want to see her have her teeth bleached? Narcissistic bitch!" Geez, I know people don't like her, but Kate Gosselin is not responsible for every evil in the world.

Former GWoP Fan said...

The all consuming hatred of Kate has legs, too. A certain "private" hater board was starting take out its "Kate Hate" on the Gosselin child that appears to be Kate's favorite. I won't mention that tup's name (you can probably figure it out), but posters began crossing the line in making fun of that particular tup's physical appearance and favored status. I mean, my GOD, what adult makes fun of a four year old? A few posters voiced their objection to the name calling, and it ceased, but they were definitely in the minority and you got the feeling that someone had spoiled the name caller's fun.

If you can claim that "you're just worried about the children" on one hand, and then turn around and snicker and call one of those children nasty names when you think the public can't see it, then something is flawed with your logic and "mission of mercy."

I also wonder if Aunt Jodi would be so chummy with these "trusting souls" if she knew her niece and/or nephew was being made fun of like that.

anya said...

To former GWoP Fan:

It makes me sick to my stomach that these sanctimonious gasbags would actually mock the appearance of a four-year-old. Thank you for not mentioning names. We know who their target is anyway. A new low.

I was reading one of the haters’ episode recaps this morning on GWoP. In the recap, the writer admonished sweet Cara to “shut up” not once, but twice (for the transgression of being upset by Leah’s spider killing). This same writer mentioned later in her post about “feeling sorry” for Cara because she seems camera shy. This is the height of hypocrisy and nastiness and it was prominently featured on the front page of the blog. Very indicative of the group sentiment over there. I really don’t have words....

IMO said...

The thing that bothers me the most is the women that condone Kate's behavior.

Anonymous said...

Kate does not own anything she does wrong. Never admits to being wrong and always has to have the last word

Anonymous said...

Somewhere in between lies the truth.

Anonymous said...

Kate actually sounds like a lot of women I know. My mother, especially (which is why I moved out at 18).

Kate is no saint. I hated the scenes with her threatening to throw out Collin's bear, and denying the boys their cupcakes while the girls got to eat their's. I thought she was an uber-bitch right there. However, what she did, while being part of her narcissistic personality and being just plain mean, does not qualify as abuse or constitute uproars and phone calls or calling for her head on a stick, as posters at GWoP want. They don't just want the show off the air, as they pretend to claim. They want Jon and Kate destroyed along with it.

Anonymous said...

I am a faculty member of a RN nursing program and would just like to set the record straight. All nursing students are required to complete coursework and clinical time (practice in a hospital) in the area of pediatric nursing. This DOES NOT vary from state to state, since the RN licensing exam is developed by a national board. This is nothing new...the National League for Nursing sets standards by which all nursing schools must teach their students in order for them to be eligible to to sit for the state board exam.

Linda said...

The most glaring red flag on the GwoP is their disclaimer at the top of their blog. It reads:

GwoP (Gosselins Without Pity) is a blog which publishes opinion and conjecture in addition to accurate facts. Information on this site may or may not be true and GwoP makes no warranty to the validity of any claims. We also do not take any responsibility for the consequences that may be created as a result of our posts or the views expressed in our comment section.

A couple of comments ...

One of the things that the blog's owners post about incessantly is how they want "the truth" to get out about Jon & Kate Gosselin. Yet their disclaimer "makes no warranty as to the validity of any claims" ... hmmm?

Another curious point to me is that the owners of the blog "do not take any responsibility for the consequences that may be created as a result of our posts or the views expressed in our comments section."

Really? If their purpose was so noble then why wouldn't they accept total responsibility for the consequences that resulted from the blog posts or it's comment section?

Additionally how does publishing comments that mock the children or predict that they will have a myriad of psychiatric disorders in the future or predict that they will be in a variety of illegal professions amount to advocating for them?

Anonymous said...

This site will never come close to the credibility and intelligence of GWoP.

The fact is most of KON'S fans are uneducated white trash fundies who think smacking your spouse is ok.

You are the ones who would take any freebie offered you way, to hell with the consequences.

KON's admirers have grown up in disrespectful and demeaning homes themselves, and will continue to perpetuate the cycle.

At least we have got you all in one place now.

MADYROCKS said...

I agree that NO ONE should be making fun of the kids...saying that they have this disorder or characteristic...EVER! It is mean and wrong...and whatever side you sit on, the kids will be reading all this crap and trying to find their own way thru it.

The parody's on GWoP are just that. I am ok with the fun poked at KON because I think they have earned it.

The thing to remember is GWoP HAS brought light to children in reality shows, that is a fact.

They have uncovered truths about Kate and her abusive behavior thru Julie, Jodi's sister, that is a fact.

Paul Peterson of a MINOR CONSIDERATION is aware and now involved, that is a fact.

So good things are coming from the site that will help not just the Gosselin kids, but future children whose parent's aren't smart enough to keep them protected.

As for the HATER remarks. I have not come across one poster who has said they HATE Jon or Kate. I feel sorry for Kate because I think she is mentally ill. She may do well with treatment and medication, but first she has to want to get better.

I don't HATE Jon. He appears to be a slug of a human being with zero ambition, but he does seem to genuinely love his kids. I think he would be a good candidate for some parenting classes. Kate, she's not there IMO.

I hope some good can come from this site as well.

Keep it mature, keep it calm.

Thanks for letting me share my views.

Anonymous said...

KON's admirers have grown up in disrespectful and demeaning homes themselves, and will continue to perpetuate the cycle.

At least we have got you all in one place now.>>


Lord almighty, you GWOPers really are a bunch of lunatics. Do you even realize what you sound like? BTW - there are several boards online mocking you guys, we arent all "in once place" ROFLMAO

Linda said...

Anonymous 8:24 --

You wrote:

"I have not come across one poster who has said they HATE Jon or Kate."

Publishing posts that refer to the mother as a shrew or a bit-- isn't something someone reserves for someone they like. It might not be actually be using the word "hate" but it is certainly an indication of very strong disgust.

Publishing those kinds of posts let alone the ones that predict the children having psychiatric disorders or having illegal professions is really the same kind of verbal abuse that the folks over at GwoP criticize Kate for displaying.

How does that amount to advocating for those children?

They want us all to believe that they've got some "higher purpose" for their nastiness but the truth is that they've permitted these nasty posts about the children and their parents because it increases blog traffic.

Final question:

What do you think of their disclaimer?

Guinevere said...

This site will never come close to the credibility and intelligence of GWoP. The fact is most of KON'S fans are uneducated white trash fundies who think smacking your spouse is ok. You are the ones who would take any freebie offered you way, to hell with the consequences. KON's admirers have grown up in disrespectful and demeaning homes themselves, and will continue to perpetuate the cycle. At least we have got you all in one place now.

I have no idea how to even begin to address the generalizations and insults in your post, but it's obvious that you are desperate to be acknowledged, so consider it done. And do have a nice day.

The parody's on GWoP are just that. I am ok with the fun poked at KON because I think they have earned it.

Well, I'll just reiterate what I've said before: they dilute the message of grave concern that is supposedly at the heart of GWoP's mission statement. If what the Gosselins are doing to their kids is so outrageous and soul-destroying that you must agitate ceaselessly to have the show canceled and/or the children taken away from their parents, then I don't see how you can simultaneously "snark" on Kate's ass or otherwise joke about J&K.

The thing to remember is GWoP HAS brought light to children in reality shows, that is a fact.

With all due respect, it's an opinion, which is...not the same thing as a fact.

They have uncovered truths about Kate and her abusive behavior thru Julie, Jodi's sister, that is a fact.

Again, an opinion; also, an opinion based on unverified second or third-hand (at least) information. Information shared by someone who I, for one, have no respect for.

(A quick aside - I can already tell this is going to be a long post - I don't disrespect Julie because she doesn't like Kate and I'm a rabid Kate defender. If it were just a matter of Julie being angry because she perceived her sister as having been hurt by Kate, I would be willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. But from what I've seen, Julie is simply inserting herself into a story that has nothing to do with her, in a way that cannot possibly do anyone any good. She is, IMO, a very distasteful and classless woman.)

Paul Peterson of a MINOR CONSIDERATION is aware and now involved, that is a fact.

I don't keep up with Paul Peterson's doings, so you may or may not be correct. I thought I'd read that he had determined that the situation with J&K+8 wasn't one that he felt merited his attention, but he may have changed his mind, or maybe I misunderstood. I think he's a bit of an attention-hound, myself, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume his concern for the Gosselin children is sincere. I'm not sure what his involvement entails, but...good for him, I guess?

So good things are coming from the site that will help not just the Gosselin kids, but future children whose parent's aren't smart enough to keep them protected.

Well, I disagree (that would be an opinion, not a fact, by the way). Reading the vitriol and ugliness at GWoP, and hearing that the people involved with that site have a private site where they mock a four-year-old girl...I can't see any of that as "good". Hatred, anger, jealousy and bile are never good things, IMO.

As for the HATER remarks. I have not come across one poster who has said they HATE Jon or Kate. I feel sorry for Kate because I think she is mentally ill. She may do well with treatment and medication, but first she has to want to get better.

Well, I'm pretty sure I have read posts using the word "hate", but I couldn't cite chapter and verse. It doesn't matter - if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, most people are going to recognize it for what it is.

I hope some good can come from this site as well. Keep it mature, keep it calm. Thanks for letting me share my views.

Hey, at least you didn't call us white-trash "fundies" bereft of intelligence! From a GWoPper, that's practically a love letter!

Guinevere said...

What do you think of their disclaimer?

Ha, you just reminded me of the post I read on another messsage board a couple of weeks ago (a bit after GWoP started), to the effect that the GWoP "disclaimer" was proof that you shouldn't be allowing your cat to act as legal counsel for you.

Okay, I'm mean. But the whole statement does read like it was written by Lionel Hutz (of The Simpsons - he once asked a judge for a mistrial: "Uh, your Honor, can I call for one of those bad trial thingys?"). And the bit about "accurate facts" - to be distinguished from inaccurate facts, presumably? Too, too funny.

Linda said...

Anon:

Opinions do not rise to the level of fact simply because they are rigidly held.

MCB said...

I love this post:

"This site will never come close to the credibility and intelligence of GWoP.

The fact is most of KON'S fans are uneducated white trash fundies who think smacking your spouse is ok.

You are the ones who would take any freebie offered you way, to hell with the consequences.

KON's admirers have grown up in disrespectful and demeaning homes themselves, and will continue to perpetuate the cycle.

At least we have got you all in one place now."

BWAH-HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I'm a fundie! That's classic. I'm a heathen lapsed Catholic who never goes to church with a double degree, one child, and a nice job at a major university. Oh, and I recycle, but since I'm just "white trash," that must mean I recycle beer cans, right?

THANK YOU for proving that everything we've posted about the petty, vindictive, bitchy, hypocrites at GWoP (Cyberstalkers R'Us) are 100% true.

Care for some hot sauce to slather on the foot that's currently lodged in your mouth? I'll bet I even know which GWoP poster you are, too, just from the nastiness and maturity level of your comment.

bigsis88 said...

I think it's sad when people defend their opinions and reject others' using insults. I'm still a teenager, and I think I learned that logic trumps insults at least 10 years ago. Any given person's opinion concerning J&K, IMO, tells me NOTHING about his or her:
-personality
-lifestyle
-values
-marital status . . . the list goes on.
I think the defining quality that GWoP and GDNNOP share is that both have some people who will, frankly, act like petulant children. Rather than fight fire with fire (remember the Golden Rule?), I just ignore the posters who seem more interested in showing off their insult vocabulary than having intelligent discussion.

Anonymous said...

While both blog sites are content on bashing each other and which has the moral high ground regarding Jon and Kate, I believe TLC AND the Gosselins are all laughing on their way to the bank.

Anonymous said...

While both blog sites are content on bashing each other and which has the moral high ground regarding Jon and Kate, I believe TLC AND the Gosselins are all laughing on their way to the bank.

---Well, the Gosselins are bickering on their way to the bank. Otherwise, an insightful observation.

Also, I am trying to figure out why there is some much vitriol between the pro and anti-J&K people. Can't we all just get along?

Guinevere said...

I can get along with people who don't like J&K and make judgments about them. I can't get along with people who call CPS on them or try to dig up info on their parents on the internet or who insistent that Kate has Munchasen Syndrome by proxy or is psychotic. There has to be some middle ground in order to discuss this show or any subject rationally. Some of the anti-J&K people are rational. Quite a few of them at GWoP, IMO, are not.

anya said...

"bigsis88 said...
I think it's sad when people defend their opinions and reject others' using insults."
***********************************
Very well said!

It does take a bit more time and thought (and sometimes writing ability) to post one's opinions (especially strongly held ones) without resorting to name-calling or over-generalizations ("you people"). For example, Guinevere in her post above calls out the specific behavior she has a problem with, but does not call anyone "white trash" or other similarly mindless insults that say more about the person saying them than the person named.

I would urge people to IGNORE those who try and bait and don't add anything meaningful to the conversation.

Anya

P.S. "Bickering all the way to the bank". True AND funny!

Sharla said...

Yes, the person who posted that the curriculum where Kate attended nursing school lacked pediatric development definitely considered that it was a lapse of the program and not of Kate in particular. Please consider that in the context of the discussion it addressed where people were saying Kate should know this or that as a nurse. By pointing out that the curriculum she had did not cover it, it means the argument they used was invalid.

Linda said...

Sharla,

Other than it being CYA .. What do you think of the GwoP disclaimer?

(BTW -- I am aware that you post frequently on GwoP and I've visited your google profile)

Sharla said...

That's fine. I knew that would happen when I signed the comment. :) I wouldn't exactly say that I post frequently. I seldom have the time. I just felt that a comment I did post was somehow misconstrued in its intent.

I can't imagine the profile has anything very interesting in it.

Sharla said...

That e-mailing and calling the school that Kate attended to find out what curriculum they had, a bit creepy and stalkerish?

That's making a leap in logic and ascribing an action to me that I didn't take. All I had to do was check with a friend of mine who is involved with the nursing program at a local university. She watches Jon and Kate and had told me that she had already looked in their files for it out of curiosity.

Linda said...

Sharla,

What do you think of the disclaimer?

Sharla said...

I have nothing really to say about the disclaimer. That's why I didn't answer the question the first time. I didn't write it. I didn't post it. I view it as not my issue. I know that isn't the answer you wanted, but your discussion should be with someone else.

Anonymous said...

"This site will never come close to the credibility and intelligence of GWoP. The fact is most of KON'S fans are uneducated white trash fundies who think smacking your spouse is ok.
You are the ones who would take any freebie offered you way, to hell with the consequences. KON's admirers have grown up in disrespectful and demeaning homes themselves, and will continue to perpetuate the cycle.At least we have got you all in one place now."

That is pretty funny to me! I am currently working on my MASTERS DEGREE, but yet I am "uneducated white trash." I'm just not bitchy enough, so I must be trash! Wow, that woman is psychotic! I most definitely did not grow up in a disrespectful and demeaning home. I had parents that loved me and that is the cycle I am repeating with my son. Maybe this woman grew up in a bad home and that is why she is so bitter. Hmmmm....poor lady! If GWoP is a credible and intelligent site then I am very worried about what the world has come to!

Sharla said...

"This site will never come close to the credibility and intelligence of GWoP. The fact is most of KON'S fans are uneducated white trash fundies who think smacking your spouse is ok.
You are the ones who would take any freebie offered you way, to hell with the consequences. KON's admirers have grown up in disrespectful and demeaning homes themselves, and will continue to perpetuate the cycle.At least we have got you all in one place now."


I don't know who wrote that, but one thing I'm sure of is that it isn't one of the admins of the blog in question. As you've found here, blog admins/owners can't be responsible for the opinions or actions of their readers outside the sphere of their own blog. Keeping that in control is enough work and effort.

Linda said...

Sharla -

Are you the same Sharla who is on "staff" at GwoP?

I'm not looking for any particular answer ... I'm curious about your perspective on the disclaimer and anyone's perspective on it for that matter.

Sharla said...

Yes, I'm that Sharla. ;) I'm not sure why the disclaimer is of such concern. It's the same or very similar to one that's been on many blogs. We verify as much as we can, but we also have opinions posted. Nothing subversive or ulterior intended - just a standard type thing.

Linda said...

Sharla -

You wrote :

"I view it is as not my issue."

It's curious to me that the disclaimer is not your issue but the life of this family is your issue.

I wrote the following email to you this morning.

I'll re-post it here:
----
Hi Sharla,

I've seen how you are trying to clean up the comment section of the GwoP blog. It is commendable, but it may be a little too late.

By previously publishing those derogatory posts that

*verbally abuse the parents,
*mock the children,
*diagnose the parents and the children with psychiatric conditions,
*predict that the kids will be in illegal professions and
*have unplanned pregnancies, etc., etc.

the "staff" members have created a kind of "anything goes" atmosphere that they justify with an occasional post about child labor laws and their allegedly higher purpose of advocating for these kids.

Do you have any concerns that your site may be just the kind of nudge that an unstable person may need to do something to this family? Your blog readers have already driven past their home and taken pictures of the infamous "sign" in the front lawn. What's next? How will you feel then?

----

While other sites with that disclaimer acknowledge that they are for entertainment purposes, your blog purports to be for the purpose of advocating for the Gosselin children and for changing laws regarding child stars participating in the reality tv genre.

My problem with the disclaimer is that for months or weeks, your fellow "staff" members have been beating the drum about getting "the truth" out about the Gosselins and yet the disclaimer at the beginning of the blog fully admits that what is said on the blog may or may not be true.

That seems a little unusual to me.

The law is really unclear about this now, but I'm not asking about your liability. I'm asking you if it seems odd to you that what you are requiring of the Gosselins is more than what you are requiring of the blog where you are part of the "staff."

Betty said...

Can we just let "that other site" go rather than talk on and on about them? I'd much rather talk about how the red top Kate wore a couple of episodes ago or Jon's tee shirts.

Guinevere said...

Well, then talk about them - no one is stopping you! :-)

anya said...

Hi Betty.

The red top. Hmmm. Not my favorite of Kate's tops, but I think she basically pulled it off. Ok, it was a little floozy-like and unusual for Kate!

Overall, I think Kate dresses very nicely. I'd like to see how she would look with longer hair. (Bet Jon would too).

Jon's t-shirts. Are you referring to the shirt he has worn on a number of occasions with the biblical reference? (I think K wore it once too). I googled it a while ago when he first wore it, but I don't remember the specifics. Maybe Jessie (Jessica S) can chime in on this one and explain why Jon may be wearing this particular shirt (what he is trying to convey).

Betty said...

I've forgotten the reference on the shirt, too, but the company had posted that they were so proud he was wearing it.

I kind of liked the red top and it was a good color for Kate, but yes it was a lot more skin showing than she usually has. She looks very good in deep pinks and roses. I think I'd like to see her with longer hair that isn't quite so flat to her head. She looked so cute with it curled. I know probably too much trouble now.

Anonymous said...

I wasn't really impressed with the red top. Looked kind of low class especially on TV.

Kristin said...

To whoever said this: "The fact is most of KON'S fans are uneducated white trash fundies who think smacking your spouse is ok."

I cannot believe someone would have the audacity to make such a judgment on the fans. It is completely absurd! I am a highly educated female who is currently pursuing a Masters Degree on a full academic scholarship and I happen to be a big fan of the show. My college professor and even several other women in my graduate level classes are fans of the show as well.

No, we do not all agree on how everyone is portrayed but we are educated enough to know a few things. 1. Things are edited. 2. Not all parents are perfect 3. Other parents will do things you do not agree with and 4. TV is entertainment.

People need to take the show for what it is... You can have your feelings about the show and Kate but be mature enough to let others have their own views as well.