Sunday, September 7, 2008

Elizabethtown, PA - Topix

I was reviewing the referrals to this blog from other websites yesterday on the Sitemeter and came across this site. Somone had posted the URL to this blog there directing people to our blog. For those of you who are not familiar with Topix, here is a little information:

"What is Topix.com?
Topix is the world’s largest community news website. You can read, talk about -- and even edit -- the news on over 360,000 of our news pages. Whatever your interests are, we have a news page for you!"


Every community has there own Topix.

I do not know why this surprised me, but there were people that normally frequent GWoP on the Elizabethtown Topix message board trying to find out information on the Gosselins.

One poster who frequents GWoP wrote this:


"So you folks of ET....how do you feel about the Gosselin's taking all the handouts the state of PA hand to offer, knowing all the time, Jon and Kate had a large sum of money in savings?Does the state of PA think perhaps there is some real fraud to investigate? An audit???Go to Paul Peterson's website, A MINOR CONSIDERATION, to see what he has to say about the Gosselin's kids.And don't forget to look at the nauseating new and improved Gosselin website!!!! "


I know I should not have been surprised, but I was. I looked at the other topics that had recently been discussed on that site and none were about the Gosselins. There were quite a few threads about the Amish. None about the Gosselins.

I felt like this action was very much the same as going knocking door to door to all of the Gosselin's neighbors and trying to find out information. However these people were from distant states so they couldn't. Somehow I get the feeling that if they could they would.

I know. I should not have been surprised.

76 comments:

jennjenn said...

The GWOP folks are really really odd. They can't even agree amongst themselves. It is only time before they self-implode.

nomoredrama said...

So weird...

Daisy said...

I find it interesting that the person that started the conversation, LancasterLady, is from Saint Louis, MO.

Timetochangeyourways said...

Just when I think that these people can't stoop any lower, they turn around and do something like this. This has become what it is because of GWoP. The tactics they use should be used on them by their enemies. They should get a taste of their own medicine. You see they are putting themselves out in the public eye also but are doing so anonymously to hide like the weak individuals that they are. I challenge all of you that continue to stalk the Gosselins to step up and give your name and addresses. If you can't do that then you need to re-examine your behavior and ask if this is how you would want your loves ones treated.

Anonymous said...

It looks like Lancaster Lady is Serena. I thought Serena didn't have time for this?

masscommmaj said...

I challenge all of you that continue to stalk the Gosselins to step up and give your name and addresses.

Extreme stalkers Mark David Chapman, John W. Hinkley, etc., John Bardo, etc. are fans of their targets. Their extreme behavior stems from a feeling of being slighted. Now, I don't doubt there a few who feel slighted over at the other sites, but I feel like the majority of them just never liked them to begin with.

I can't speak for the the people that drive by the Gosselin house, but I imagine it is done out of curiousity. Kate explains herself that the show's intention is for those who "don't get a chance to look throught our windows" or something to that effect. I am not saying that she is inviting stalkers, I am referring to her statement that she understands people are curious about her family.

Fan Sites - the ones who post the pictures of the kids and Jon and Kate freak me out more. I understand discussing a television show, but taking the time to build a site and post pictures of another family is ... weird or "weirdish" if you want to describe the action.

I also see the recurring theme in these sites that cannot understand why anyone would NOT like Kate. I am not the one to call her names or diagnosis her with psychosis - but at the very least her behavior is "offputting". She also is definitely not next to Mother Teresa in virtue.

I mean really, what is the appeal?

She had multiples because of fertility treatments. Certainly not the first. My theory - her kids are attractive and they have no disabilities. She and Jon are both attractive.

For those reasons, I think there may have not been such a focus on the other families of multiples - McCaughey, Hayes, etc.

When children go missing - what cases stay in the limelight? Do you think JonBenet's murder would have stayed in the media as long as it did if she were not a beauty queen?

This is our society. Wrong or right - but I believe that the attention to such attributes is a contributing factor to the fascination with this family.

jennjenn said...

The GWoP never were about advocating for the kids. It was all about bringing down the Gosselins. The kids never came into question until 6 weeks after their site started. Then, in reference to all the questions they got about their nasty attitudes, they decided to put up a FAQ.

Mom said...

"Me thinks....."

Oh my goodness. I am just cracking up. As I was reading those comments back and forth between F and S, I was laughing aloud! Is that wrong?

BTW, I noticed Serena's name and email is no longer one of the contacts on that other site.

jennjenn said...

Could there be trouble in paradise? Could the implosion be happening now? :)

Mom said...

And now that other blog about PennMommy being a fraud is deleted. All I have to say is weird.

Mom said...

Another funny thing I've noticed is the inconsistency of the regular posters. I've seen some names pop up several times - here, there and everywhere. In one place, they question xyz site because it's "changed" and they don't like the name calling blah blah blah. Then on another site they say some mean stuff and blast J&K's new website!

I mean, which is it?

I've seen this with several bloggers who have registered names.

Weird.

Nina Bell said...

Mom

That was something else that was interesting when I read that post. The tone and the comments change depending where they post.

jennjenn said...

I think it is because they twist anything about J/K to suit their current and immediate needs. They wanted to snark so they started a secret board (whoopie) but then when they started a blog and people took notice, well, then they said they were advocating for kids. Now, when they come under fire, it is still about the kids and they'll grasp straws (i.e. vacation/medical reasons) in order to keep some sort of control (damage). By the way, what is the medical issue? They have to take a cat to the vet?

Anonymous said...

I was just reading at GWoP before retiring for the evening. I noticed on the side bar that Serena's name is no longer on as an admin for GWoP. What is up?

nomoredrama said...

Whoa!!!! I didn't notice that!!! Crazy!

jennjenn said...

The GWOP people seem oddly quiet this evening.....

anna said...

my guess is that serena changed her name to singsing or breanna...those names are new and their profile says they have been blogging since september 08. why would they let someone be an admin that just joined within the last 7 days? "Me thinks" there is something fishy going on....who do they think they're kidding?

Anonymous said...

So you folks of ET....how do you feel about the Gosselin's taking all the handouts the state of PA hand to offer

From what I have read - it was the people of Burks County that may have been pissed off - specifically the townspeople of Wyommissing.

Anonymous said...

And you think you are kind and above it all and you snark about someone who is truly sick and has a life threatening disease?

nomoredrama said...

Who has a life threatening illness? That would never, ever be something we joke about.

Anonymous said...


jennjenn said...
...By the way, what is the medical issue? They have to take a cat to the vet?

September 7, 2008 6:57 PM


I heard it was one of the GWoP admins. Yet there one of your bloggers jokes about something serious.

nomoredrama said...

Ok, was there an announcement posted somewhere that we missed? I'm sorry but no one knew that an admin was sick over there.

We apologize for anything said prior to our knowledge of what was going on. Food for thought though...notice the snark and hostility you display for J & K. Ever wonder what stressful, awful thing could be happening in their lives?

Food for thought.

Anonymous said...

"Due to vacation schedules and medical issues of the admins, there will be no new posts except for the new episode on Monday for the next few days. The Q&A thread will also be closed for new questions temporarily. We are sorry for any inconvenience but our volunteers need some well earned rest. Comments may take a little longer to get through during this time so please be patient. Thank you and enjoy the rest of the weekend."

notice the snark and hostility you display for J & K. Ever wonder what stressful, awful thing could be happening in their lives?


JMO - Kate and Jon versus Blog Mods, Posters, etc. Apples and Oranges.

Kate and Jon are on a show. A show that is supposed (treading lightly) to portray their lives accurately. They chose to be on the show. People love them or hate them (based on what they see and hear). Personally if everything is untrue - I don't think they should be "stressed".

Now - Bloggers - here people are being judged because of one opinion, pro/anti Gosselin. Things that are said may be taken in the wrong context (here we can't "hear" someone's words, their tone, and comments clearly do not come with annotation). I don't think that it's fair to call people Cat Ladies or Sheeple - based on where their position lies.

The Gosselins I think are pretty fair game - because when you choose to expose yourself like that you must be prepared to take the good and the bad (not saying it's right). (Ok slightly hypocritical but I am trying to plead my case - after all, it's just an opinion.)

nomoredrama said...

Ok, well, first of all, let me speak for myself. I DIDN'T KNOW. I've been out today. Apparently a lot has happened in blog land that I was unaware of.

I really don't to argue but I disagree strongly that J&K are any different than blog moderators. The blog moderators have put themselves out there for public scrutiny as well. These blogs reach a rather large audience. No, its obviously not as high as a popular television series but its high for a blog.

I know you are aware of the contradiction in your statements. I wouldn't say it's hypocritical. I'd just say you're being more than slightly unfair to the Gosselins. How would you feel if you found out the reason that Kate has been looking so haggard (not my words, the words of others) lately is because she is sick? Or one of the kids is? Or Jon?

I don't think it's fair to judge a poster based on a misinterpretation of what was going on. Or an entire blog for that matter. Mistakes happen. At least we admit when we are wrong. I don't see that in other places.

Guinevere said...

I also see the recurring theme in these sites that cannot understand why anyone would NOT like Kate. I am not the one to call her names or diagnosis her with psychosis - but at the very least her behavior is "offputting". She also is definitely not next to Mother Teresa in virtue.

Well, I don't visit those sites (if they exist). This site is certainly not like that. I think most people here are clear on why some people find Kate unlikable (speaking for myself, I like her, but I acknowledge her faults and can see why others might not like her).

Apropros of nothing, possibly, there were people who hated Mother Teresa, too - Christopher Hitchens, to name one. It doesn't matter who you are or what you do, if you are in the public eye, there is likely someone who will find something to complain about with you.

Nancy said...

We have no way of knowing, unless we are told, that a mod of another site (or this one) is seriously ill. We have no way of knowing if the person with whom we are arguing has a serious illness, or is a housebound Senior, or has had a family tragedy.We can pretty much tell those things about the Gosselin parents, since they choose to put their family on display every week.
However, since we're coming up on the anniversary of 9/11, I personally am going to try to type a little more kindly to those whose circumstances I do not know.
9/11 shows just how devastating hate can be.

MCB said...

And to jump from "due to medical issues" to "seriously ill" is quite a stretch. "Medical issues" tells us nothing, which could mean someone has the flu, or a hangnail or something serious, so jumping all over someone for mentioning taking a cat to the vet is a tad overboard, don't you think? But I'd expect nothing less from the desperate hypocrisy that some posters at a certain website (that shall remain soulless), seem to post with.

Anonymous said...

a cat to the vet is a tad overboard

I think this was taken offensively because of the the things that are said about them being "crazy cat ladies"

Anonymous said...

"We can pretty much tell those things about the Gosselin parents, since they choose to put their family on display every week."

I work with the same people on a daily basis. They are my co-workers. They do not really know me or what is going on in my life outside of the work situation. We need to remember that with the Gosselin family.

The thinking that this family puts themselves out in the public eye, therefore they deserve everything they get doesn't set well with me. I do not agree with that.

Moderators and bloggers are also putting themselves out in the public eye by choice.

Anonymous said...

I work with the same people on a daily basis. They are my co-workers. They do not really know me or what is going on in my life outside of the work situation. We need to remember that with the Gosselin family.

But with the Gosselins you do get to see how they interact with each other, details however intimate you deem them to be. I think if all the chatter was positive this would not be an issue. If it is your choice to put your life on display you have to be prepared for the outcome - good or bad.

jennjenn said...

Was the comment about the cat out of line- maybe-- but I don't think so. The way it was written, it could have been any type of medical issues from constipation to cancer. If someone is hurting there, I wish them better.

Some folks may ask, "so it's ok to snark on someone in need or hurting?" I could ask the same. Perhaps these people have been hurting and yet there have been many negative posts here about them. Does it make this thread offering sympathy any better? I could also add that they put themselves in the public eye and are fair game- isn't that their mantra about J & K? You be the judge.

Don't take this so seriously. Would I ever wish harm to anyone- NO. Would I snark about a board I dislike- YES.

Anonymous said...

Moderators and bloggers are also putting themselves out in the public eye by choice.

I could also add that they put themselves in the public eye and are fair game- isn't that their mantra about J & K? You be the judge.

You have the right to call someone crazy and assume they are loners, that have nothing better to do, discredit their professions because of his/her own opinion regarding a tv show?

Guinevere said...

You have the right to call someone crazy and assume they are loners, that have nothing better to do, discredit their professions because of his/her own opinion regarding a tv show?

As much right as you have to speculate that 4-year-olds will be future serial killers and drug addicts, to call parents lazy, stupid, fat, psychotic and to say that they don't love their kids, and much more, just because they appear on a television show.

Anonymous said...

to call parents lazy, stupid, fat, psychotic

That's what they shown themselves to be.

Guinevere said...

That's what they shown themselves to be.

In your opinion. IMO, a lot of the haters have shown themselves to be petty, small-minded, hypocritical, judgmental, ugly, mean, overinvested and in some cases just plain a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

That said, I probably would not bother participating here if they confined themselves to insulting the appearances of 4-year-olds or diagnosing a woman they've never met with various mental disorders. The really transgressive behavior is the stalking and harrassing, all done in the guise of advocacy.

Anonymous said...

IMO, a lot of the haters have shown themselves to be petty, small-minded, hypocritical, judgmental, ugly, mean, overinvested and in some cases just plain a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

diagnosing a woman they've never met with various mental disorders. The really transgressive behavior is the stalking and harrassing, all done in the guise of advocacy.


if you remove the guise of advocacy, that's what you just did. Based on what someone thinks and "says" (opinions)about a tv show.

to call parents lazy, stupid, fat, psychotic

IMO
Jon and Kate are:

Lazy because they don't work, they all their their children to be on a television show in exchange for money.

Stupid because their grammar is atrocious, and their line of thinking inane. They have confirmed their lack of higher eduation.

Fat - they or at least Jon has admitted this himself and Kate confirms this fact.

Psychotic because of their various ticks and obsessions. I am not diagnosing anyone with any specific disease, but if these "diseases" were not based on certain identifiable characteristics, psychology would be a useless field of study.

I have based my opinion on Jon and Kate because this is what they have shown me on their show.

Which is the stronger argument?

Guinevere said...

if you remove the guise of advocacy, that's what you just did. Based on what someone thinks and "says" (opinions)about a tv show.

No, I'm not stalking or harrassing anyone, nor do I advocate doing so. BIG difference, IMO.

I'm not disingenuous or hypocritical in my reasoning for watching the show, or for why I talk about it online. I don't hide behind some higher purpose and use it as an excuse to be bitchy and gossipy.

Am I unkind about some of these GWoPpers? Am I judgmental? Yes, I'll cop to those. At least I'm not pretending to be so much better as a human being, the way these people do with the Gosselins.

IMO
Jon and Kate are:

Lazy because they don't work, they all their their children to be on a television show in exchange for money.


So you are not one of the GWoPpers who believe that the Gosselin children are working? Because it doesn't follow that the kids are working, and J&K aren't. If it's a job, it's a job for all of them. I think J&K do see it as a job. It's a valid choice, IMO, even if it's not something I'd choose.

Stupid because their grammar is atrocious, and their line of thinking inane. They have confirmed their lack of higher eduation.

Kate has a nursing degree, right? How much education do you consider worthy of respect? I only have some college; I guess I'm stupid, too. I guess everyone without what - a Masters? A Phd? - is stupid in your eyes?

As for atrocious grammar and inane thinking, I see plenty of both in posts at GWoP. Sometimes I can barely understand what the poster is trying to say. So I guess all of your fellow travelers who don't use perfect grammar are stupid, too.

Fat - they or at least Jon has admitted this himself and Kate confirms this fact.

Oh, the GWoPpers don't call Jon fat - it's the size of Kate's ass they have such an issue with. What that has to do with child advocacy, I will never know.

Psychotic because of their various ticks and obsessions. I am not diagnosing anyone with any specific disease, but if these "diseases" were not based on certain identifiable characteristics, psychology would be a useless field of study.

I may be mistaken, but I believe "psychotic" is an actual medical diagnosis, so yes, if you call kate psychotic, you are diagnosing her with a specific condition. That's why I prefer the all-purpose and less technical "crazy" - it doesn't sound like I'm pretending to make an actual diagnosis. I would guess that almost none of the posters who diagnose Kate with various mental illnesses know jack squat about psychology, nor do they have any training that would qualify them to make such judgments. And of course, if they do have such credentials, they are acting very irresponsibly in diagnosing someone whom they've never met with or spoken to personally, based solely on what they see on an edited TV show.

I have based my opinion on Jon and Kate because this is what they have shown me on their show. Which is the stronger argument?

You judge J&K based on what you see on TV; I judge some anti-Gosselin posters based on what they write. I could argue that I have the stronger case because you are watching a TV show edited by someone other than the Gosselins, whereas the postings I read are purely the opinions of the posters. But I'm willing to call it a draw.

The two differences I still see, though, are 1) I don't advocate stalking, harrassing or trying to interfere with anyone's life and 2) I don't pretend that I'm above it all. I expect to be judged on what I write. It seems that some GWoP posters, while being incredibly judgmental themselves, get indignant when judgments are made about them.

Anonymous said...

Kate has a nursing degree, right?

She does not.

She has a certificate of completion from a hospital that runs a nursing program. I am not denying she obviously learned enough to pass the PA state board, but she she does not hold an associates degree or otherwise.

Guinevere said...

And this, in your mind, is evidence that she's stupid?

MCB said...

Which is the stronger argument?

Actually, Guinevere's. All you have served to prove that you are catty, judgmental and petty, and like to call people names.

Since you opened up the can of worms and asked, here you go:

Fat? Really. So if your spouse or child says, "I'm getting fat," you tell them yes, you are? Would you tell an anorexic that "yep, you're fat," simply because she said she was? Jon makes fat cracks at his own expense, but I think he's far from "fat."

Lazy. Right. THEY HAVE EIGHT CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF SEVEN. Call me after you've chased six four year olds around all day and tell me how exhausted you feel. Most people get exhausted caring for one or two. I think they both have full time jobs and it is raising their kids. By the way, are the McCaughey's also lazy because Kenny McCaughey quit his regular job to be a motivational speaker, affording him the opportunity to be home more often to help raise their 8 children, as well?

"Psychotic because of their various ticks and obsessions." Are you a psychiatrist and licensed to make such diagnosis? Do you not have any obsessions or ticks, yourself? We all have "issues." Kate may be a slightly neurotic, narcissistic neat freak, and Jon a procrastinator, but neither qualifies them for a rubber room in a psych ward with actual psychotics.

They're stupid. So, how long have you been a member of MENSA?


She has a certificate of completion from a hospital that runs a nursing program. I am not denying she obviously learned enough to pass the PA state board, but she she does not hold an associates degree or otherwise.


So ironic that this poster finds nothing wrong in the fact that she knows this kind of private information and got it as a result of GWoPPERS calling the place where Kate attended school and grilling them about their requirements (and of course, the flapping gums of their benevolent hero, Julie).

Yuck. I need a shower after reading that.

And this, in your mind, is evidence that she's stupid?

Guinevere, you think all posters and readers who weren't able to complete a "real" degree are feeling a little bit insulted right now? Eyeroll.

Anonymous said...

to call parents lazy, stupid, fat, psychotic

I don't particularly share these opinions, but I pulled them directly from your quote to show how from watching the show, someone could say Jon and Kate are A B or C.

In regards to education, let's say you had gone the opposite route and said "I have a Master's", how would you feel if someone said "no you don't" I don't believe you - you are some nut job that needs to blah blah.

This is my whole point. People pro or anti get their opinions from the show - what they see.

To call some crazy because you don't like what his or her opinion is?

When I made the comment about which is the stronger argument - I meant in general. How do you get from point A to B.

"I think Kate is crazy because she freaks out when the kids get dirty"

or

"So and so is a crazy because she thinks Kate is crazy."


No offense, G (I am not spelling out your name because I don't know how to spell it off the top of my head). I surely did not mean to insult your intelligence and am kind of taken aback that you disclosed what you did. Why? Because a lot of people are educated here and a lot of time they do get called stupid and their professions get called into question. What we know about each other is what we post - a small snippet of our lives - that doesn't really reflect anything except our feelings about a certain tv show.

The Gosselins on the other hand - have exposed their lives on tv. I don't care if you say it's edited. You can't make someone look bad, if there is no footage to support it. So what do you want to believe that they are being misrepresented by editing or Kate's own admission that this is an accurate portrayal of their lives.

Mom said...

Just my two cents - an RN is an RN. They are school certificate programs, which are actually pretty intensive and provides lots of clinical experience. You can have an Associates degree and be an RN and you can have a bachelor's of science degree in nursing (BSN). All of the above mentioned have to pass the same boards to become an RN.

If I recall, there are some others here more qualified than me to chime in. But, I don't think "dissing" K because she doesn't hold and assoc or bachelor's degree means she is any "less" of a nurse - or stupid for that matter.

Guin - thanks for your input on those above posts. Your rational thinking is a breath of fresh air! :-)

Guinevere said...

Aw, thank you, mom!

Anonymous said...

So, how long have you been a member of MENSA?

Actually since you asked, 1993.

You don't have to believe me, because just because it's on the internet, doesn't mean that it's true.

I could give you my REAL name - so you could verify - but wouldn't that be stalking?

Guinevere said...

I don't particularly share these opinions, but I pulled them directly from your quote to show how from watching the show, someone could say Jon and Kate are A B or C.

It read to me as if you were defending those comments.

In regards to education, let's say you had gone the opposite route and said "I have a Master's", how would you feel if someone said "no you don't" I don't believe you - you are some nut job that needs to blah blah.

That's one reason I try to avoid dragging my credentials into discussions like these (luckily, I have no relevant credentials in this case) - people may believe or disbelieve you, as is their right. I take such statements with a grain of salt, personally; people often seem to use them in an attempt to win an argument. I don't think anyone who watches J&K+8 should be considered more of an expert on the show simply because of the type of degree they have.

This is my whole point. People pro or anti get their opinions from the show - what they see.

And people get their opinions on other posters from what they read. I really fail to see the distinction.

To call some crazy because you don't like what his or her opinion is?

I call people crazy if by their posts they manifest to me behavior that is extremely illogical or overinvested. I don't call someone crazy, for instance, just because they think that there should be laws regulating children on reality TV.

No offense, G (I am not spelling out your name because I don't know how to spell it off the top of my head). I surely did not mean to insult your intelligence and am kind of taken aback that you disclosed what you did. Why? Because a lot of people are educated here and a lot of time they do get called stupid and their professions get called into question. What we know about each other is what we post - a small snippet of our lives - that doesn't really reflect anything except our feelings about a certain tv show.

Why would you be taken aback? You may not have meant to, but you insulted people who lack higher education. I don't have any doubts about my own intelligence, and I don't think education necessarily reflects intelligence, though it sometimes reflects knowledge level. I will say again, I don't think people have the right to expect that just because they say they have a Masters in Child Development, for instance, that everyone is going to believe them.

Quite a while ago, I revealed something semi-personal and another poster questioned it. It did bug me for a minute, but then I realized - she doesn't know me. *I* know I'm not lying. It really doesn't matter that much what strangers think, you know?

Speaking for myself, I don't think I've called anyone stupid. I can be a bit bitchy at times here, but outright insults really aren't my M.O.

The Gosselins on the other hand - have exposed their lives on tv. I don't care if you say it's edited. You can't make someone look bad, if there is no footage to support it. So what do you want to believe that they are being misrepresented by editing or Kate's own admission that this is an accurate portrayal of their lives.

I feel like we're going around in circles, or maybe talking past each other. One of the bloggers at GWoP called one of the Gosselin children "oafish" in a blog entry. I happen to think that saying that reflects in a negative way on that blogger's character.

You think that what you see on J&K reflects badly on Kate's character. To a degree, I agree. I haven't ever said, "Oh, she's the nicest person - it's just that darn editing making Kate look bad!" Kate makes herself look bad plenty of times. But so do a lot of people. For me, it's the difference between thinking she's an interesting person with flaws and virtues, and thinking she's a monster (another name I've seen her called at GWoP).

Anonymous said...

I call people crazy if by their posts they manifest to me behavior that is extremely illogical or overinvested.

"I would say a crazy comment would be along the lines of Beth stopped being Kate's friend because she wanted to adopt Aaden."

There is obvious no evidence to support this.

But to say "Kate is crazy"

Well - there's a multitude of evidence to support that.

Anonymous said...

By the way, are the McCaughey's also lazy because Kenny McCaughey quit his regular job to be a motivational speaker, affording him the opportunity to be home more often to help raise their 8 children, as well?

There is no reason to call Kenny McCaughey lazy.

By all accounts Kenny McCaughey stayed on his automotive-related job as long as he could.


"By the time of the septuplets' tenth birthday in 2007, the family was declining most requests for interviews, other than annual stories with Dateline NBC and Ladies' Home Journal."

Some days, Bobbi pitches in on the assembly line where Kenny powder coats metal parts. He appreciates the steady paycheck and health insurance, after stints as a stay-at-home dad and public speaker.

Now how many jobs has Jon lost? What happened to the cush government job Kate got for him?

Jon and Kate make money off their kids period.

How many of you would watch the show if it was just Jon and Kate?

MCB said...

I could give you my REAL name - so you could verify - but wouldn't that be stalking?

Not really since I really don't care what your name is, which makes me different from the GWoPPERS who like to examine the site meter and send Nina messages trying to "out" the posters here.

There is no reason to call Kenny McCaughey lazy.

Duh. That was my point. I wouldn't call Jon or Kenny lazy. But I'll give you points for trying to twist others words around to suit your agenda. (golf clap)

Now how many jobs has Jon lost? What happened to the cush government job Kate got for him?


Why do I care and why do you feel it necessary to know and announce this kind of personal information? Once again, without a bit of self-awareness, you bring up family business that could only be obtained from obsessive internet searches and the flapping gums of disgruntled family members and their sisters. You just keep proving our point that GWoP crosses the line of privacy and decency at every opportunity. Try to hear this, NOT EVERYONE CARES ABOUT KNOWING SUCH INTIMATE DETAILS ABOUT THIS FAMILY. It's freaking creepy.

Anonymous said...

GWoPPERS calling the place where Kate attended school and grilling them about their requirements

More false statements and assumptions made here without foundation. No one that I know at GWoP called the school. No one cared enough. It was readily available information and was actually posted there and HERE in support of Kate not having the classes people assumed she had. Therefore, she wouldn't have had the knowledge people assumed she had.

Anonymous said...

Once again, without a bit of self-awareness, you bring up family business that could only be obtained from obsessive internet searches and the flapping gums of disgruntled family members and their sisters.

I beg to differ, the Gosselins "financial" difficulty and Jon's job status has been posted on their own Sixgosselin website and the places where Jon himself has posted.

Anonymous said...

Why do I care and why do you feel it necessary to know and announce this kind of personal information?

That's right - all the topics that are reasonable questions to ask are answered with "I don't care about that."

Balanced discussion indeed.

anya said...

MCB said... "NOT EVERYONE CARES ABOUT KNOWING SUCH INTIMATE DETAILS ABOUT THIS FAMILY. It's freaking creepy."

I have nothing to add other this is is spot on! Too bad it has been said before and will need to be reiterated again and again because the Gosselin haters just don't listen. They just can't believe there are people who can watch the show, discuss the show, acknowledge the Gosselins may have flaws, etc. etc. and not need to know and endlessly discuss every last freakin detail of their lives.....

Anonymous said...

I think you are right, and I think she is still truly scared. I don't think she has confidence in herself. It may stem form all the anxiety issures that I see very clearly. I will say that I think Kate has more than just "issues" she needs to deal with and get a handle on quckly. I see her in line for a breakdown.

This is a comment take from this site.

So you have an issue with questioning Kate's intelligence - yet it's ok to say that she's scared to handle her own kids -when she that's what she does for a living? As for the breakdown, comment, if that's not touching on her state of mentality, I don't know what is.

Is it semantics that matters so much? Either way if you make a comment and call someone a name or use other words dance around the subject and say you are commentin on the behavior rather than the person. Either way - it's judgement.

Nina Bell said...

"That's right - all the topics that are reasonable questions to ask are answered with "I don't care about that."

Balanced discussion indeed"

This question was answered with this answer:


"Once again, without a bit of self-awareness, you bring up family business that could only be obtained from obsessive internet searches and the flapping gums of disgruntled family members and their sisters. You just keep proving our point that GWoP crosses the line of privacy and decency at every opportunity. Try to hear this, NOT EVERYONE CARES ABOUT KNOWING SUCH INTIMATE DETAILS ABOUT THIS FAMILY. It's freaking creepy."


It was just not the answer that you wanted.

Anonymous said...

KNOWING SUCH INTIMATE DETAILS ABOUT THIS FAMILY

IMO, just watching the show reveals intimate details about this family. It also reveals inconsistencies. Now if you watch and not question, depending on your position, you are considered to be a sheeple. If you dig a little (and I am not talking about the stalking), trying to find out more information, to make a decision for yourself - you are considered a stalker.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:02

I think going on this website and asking if anyone has any info is much more than digging a little. You might as well just take out an advertisement for info.

All of us are curious otherwise we would not have found these blogs.

Who is watching and not having questions? That is just human nature and I think most of us fall into that category of questioning a little.


What do you define as digging a little?

Anonymous said...

What do you define as digging a little?

Googling Gosselin. That's as far as I am speaking of. There are other sites (Imperfect Parent, AOL Living). No, I am not talking about how there have been some people who found their address, etc.

twinmpm said...

To the poster who writes that Jon & Kate are psychotic-please knock it off. Do you have any idea at all what a person in full blown psychosis presents and experiences? It's dreadful and can be horrifying depending on the symptoms and J & K are not psychotic. That's an outrageous statement and cruel as well. I have had it with cruel judgements. Why fat? Neither one of them is "fat". She looks absolutely normal to me (do you know how much weight the camera adds on by the way?) and he looks like he has what used to be called a stocky build but is now considered somewhat overweight. Why stupid? Kate was a nurse. She had to have passed exams and done supervised time at a hospital in order to be able to work anywhere and we know that she did indeed work at nursing. Jon shows very clearly that he is fairly intelligent and has very good common sense about how to be around his kids. Cameras aside, I see him relating, playing with and caring for his kids. Some people don't have a grand vocabulary and I suspect it is difficult to come up with the right words when being interviewed in your basement! Yes, Kate has some strange versions of words. Maybe her family spoke that way. Maybe she speaks before she thinks. Who knows? But I do think it's cruel to call someone stupid. I have noticed that the kids are speaking very, very well. In the current episodes they are pronouncing words properly and more often speak in a short, full sentence. If they were around "stupid" people they wouldn't be able to do that. Take a step back and ask yourself why you feel it's OK to label these people stupid and psychotic. Let's not forget fat. I guess you don't like anyone who is overweight? How the heck do you know who you are posting to and with? They could weight 200 pounds and you would be offending them. Is that kind?

Ugly stuff. It makes my stomach turn.

twinmom said...

Do the GWOP posters really send Nina messages about the identity of the posters here? My God. That's beyond obsession.

As I read more of the posts I came across the "as a matter of fact I am" when being a member of Mensa was mentioned. Well, to this poster, I could say that your own writing and grammar ain't that great and if I wanted to I could pass a judgment on you based on that. If you would go back and look at your posts, there are quite a few grammatical errors and some typos. If I follow your logic I would have to take that evidence and assess that you are : stupid.

But I won't. It's unkind and, I strongly suspect, untrue. I will say that I think you are really, really angry at something or someone. I guess the Gosselins get to bear the brunt of that anger. You don't know these people in your personal life. Why is it so important that you get on the internet and trash them? It seems so odd to me. I'm sorry to say that to you, but based on what you have written here it is the truth.

Anonymous said...

You don't know these people in your personal life.

Please apply the same logic to the posters with dissenting comments.

I took the Mensa comment as joke. It was followed by additional commentary.

I read the comments here and other boards to discuss a television show - the good, the bad and the ugly.

nomoredrama said...

I also don't see the relevance of whether Kate has an Associates degree or not. The only difference between a hospital program and a Associates is the amount of non-nursing related classes you have to take to obtain the degree.

Most police officers don't complete degree programs, at least in my area. Nor do firefighters, EMT's, 911 Operators, all of the people you'll be calling when you have an emergency. Are you going to do ask them about their credentials before you accept their help?

And thank you to twinmom for posting what you did about psychosis. This is where I tear my hair out in frustration. If you are going to make a claim, please be able to define it. Psychosis is a thought disorder. In other words: perceiving with your senses something that is not present. A hallucination or delusion. Kate does not hallucinate. I haven't seen her responding to internal stimuli just yet. I also haven't seen any evidence of a true delusion.

As far as ticks go? First of all, in psychology it is a "tic" and it is a sudden and repetitive movement (such as blinking your eyes too much) It can also be a repetitive sound.

Unless the editors do a REALLY good job at editing, these 'symptoms' are not present.

There are reasons why people go to school to work in a profession. What kind of a disaster would it be if I decided to be my doctor for the day? Similarly, there would be a lot of people with broken down cars if I tried to be their mechanic. Psychology is no different. There is a reason that you need at least a master's to begin making diagnosis (and even then, a clinical psychologist with a Ph.D. can overrule you). Why don't we all stick to our respective jobs and leave the diagnosing to those who are trained.

Guinevere said...

IMO, just watching the show reveals intimate details about this family. It also reveals inconsistencies. Now if you watch and not question, depending on your position, you are considered to be a sheeple. If you dig a little (and I am not talking about the stalking), trying to find out more information, to make a decision for yourself - you are considered a stalker.

My problem is that what you term "inconsistencies" are often termed "lies" by anti-Gosselin posters, and made way more of than is necessary, IMO. One example: the claims that the Gosselins have obviously lied when they said in an earlier episode that their kids didn't watch much tv, because they knew the Sesame Street characters. (I think there have been other "gotcha!" examples that people think prove that Jon and Kate were obviously lying through their teeth on this issue.) The more likely and less sinister explanation is that as the sextuplets have gotten older, they've gotten more interested in watching various shows, have more of an attention span for TV, etc. But this rather obvious and innocuous explanation is not even considered, in favor of calling J&K liars who are obviously lying about everything.

I see this sort of thing all the time in anti-Gosselin posts. Assumptions are made, and the worst spin possible is put on J&K's behavior. Right now, there is a breathtakingly presumptuous and arrogant blog entry on GWoP, titled "Things I'd Like to See Jon and Kate Do". It is quite a piece of work, and includes such suggestions as "Re-introduce themselves and the kids to their extended family." I really can't imagine how people who don't know the full story behind whatever estrangements the Gosselins might have with their respective families feel comfortable advising J&K to just let it all go and reconcile. There is no consideration of the possibility that J&K may know what they are doing, and may be trying to protect their children from what they see as bad influences. I don't know if this is the case or not, which is why I don't feel qualified to advise J&K on what to do. Such nerviness just appalls me.

Another suggestion is that Kate "Learn more information about health and nutrition. Just because an item is organic, it doesn't mean it's healthy." This is based solely on the assumption the anti-Gosselin crowd makes that because Kate values organic food, she conflates it with eating healthy and doesn't realize that a straight diet of marshmallow fluff isn't healthy, even if it's organic. There is absolutely no evidence that this is Kate's thinking; all we know is that she values organic and chooses it when possible. Some might even see that as a positive choice. But never let it be said that an anti-Gosselinite can't turn a positive into a negative - obviously, because Kate values organic food, she has no idea about health or nutrition beyond that. Again, there is no other evidence of this. The anti-Gosselin folks just know it, somehow.

Okay, I've gotten a bit far from my original point, which was simply - not every "inconsistency" is proof that the Gosselins are liars, and I would think most would not be worthy of digging or investigating at all.

Guinevere said...

Oh, and while I'm at it, can I just say how arrogant, creepy and delusional I find all of the back patting that the GWoPpers seems to be doing over their belief that J&K are reading that blog and adjusting their behavior accordingly? Do they seriously believe that?

Mom said...

Guin!

I was thinking the same thing about the back patting. They have even addressed anon posters as "jon"......doo doo doo doo (hum in twilight zone tune).

AgainAnonymous said...

Guinevere,

I agree on the GwoPpers congratulating themselves nonstop on having actually shaped the production of the show, the Gosselins' website, etc. It screams (to use your term) overinvestment.

I honestly don't know how some people can sink themselves into the hyperexamination and emotional investment in what pops up on each new episode...watching and rewatching each episode in SloMo to catch a glance or a comment made off microphone. I'd think the negativity would eat away at them after a while. Actually, I think maybe it is.

I can also see how the pretense of child advocacy and supporting people "wronged" by the Gosselins is just that, a pretense in order to make hay while the sun of Internet "popularity" shines on their site.

It's obviously getting to their heads, and the heads of Julie, Jodi and Pennwhooie, that somehow a lot of hits on a blog means that every hit is an upspoken vote supporting their arguments. The hits may be in the hundreds of thousands, but the actual number of comments was a little over 8,300 on 8/24.

No wonder they edit the positive comments. If they didn't it would ruin the illusion that the great anti-Gosselin machine is somehow getting somewhere.

Guinevere said...

I honestly don't know how some people can sink themselves into the hyperexamination and emotional investment in what pops up on each new episode...watching and rewatching each episode in SloMo to catch a glance or a comment made off microphone. I'd think the negativity would eat away at them after a while. Actually, I think maybe it is.

I agree. There have been times when I've had to take a step back here (and this has happened to me before with other message board discussions) and remind myself not to take things personally. It's not worth getting angry over or caring *that* much about. The negativity does start to wear on you, just reading it. I know anger can be energizing but I think it's a false energy, sort of like eating a candy bar might give you; you get all hyped up and then you crash.

I agree with you about the hyperexamination. The thing is, they only use it to confirm conclusions that they've already reached. I won't say that the anti-Gosselin folks are unique in that, but since they are who we're talking about...I think one perfect example is from the cupcake episode. Much (very, very much!) was made of Hannah being helped to eat by Kate and Mady, and being given a cupcake, whereas none of the boys were being shown to have been helped, and they of course, were denied their cupcakes in a dark day that we shall all remember forever as Cupcakegate (bows head in silence for a moment).

But the conclusions that were drawn weren't supported by the evidence. It wasn't clear how much anyone ate or didn't eat of their dinner. When Hannah's plate was shown, it had food on it but had obviously been at least partially eaten (I seem to remember a bitten-into tortilla or piece of pita bread or something like that). I don't remember if the boys' plates were specifically shown, but I do know that from the edited show there is no way anyone could really conclude who ate what. But that didn't stop some people from dissecting the scene and announcing that Hannah hadn't eaten, that she'd been given help eating while the boys weren't (which we don't know one way or another; just because it wasn't shown, doesn't mean it didn't happen), and that the cupcake distribution on that sad day was solely due to J&K's unfair favoritism of the girls. It's bad enough to scrutinize this stuff so closely; it's worse to scrutinize so closely and still come to conclusions that are wholly unsupported by evidence.

AgainAnonymous said...

Guin, (sorry to get cute with your name so quickly ;))

I agree on the conclusions out of nowhere. I keep hearing the word "logic" thrown about, that they've made a "logical" conclusion based on past behavior (mostly Kate's), which are actually just assumptions in the first place; example, that Kate favors the girls.

Since you brought up the Cupcake episode, I'll add that I thought the reaction to that show was particularly blown out of proportion. How cruel it was for a kid to not get a cupcake on his not-birthday because he hadn't eaten his dinner. What? Cruel??? They conveniently didn't hear Kate say, "The boys made no effort." (to eat)

They're definately just looking for examples to shore up foregone conclusions about the Gosselins. Last spring it was PottyGate. I don't know how far that debate spread across the blogs, but there was heated debate on the boys being on potty chairs in the driveway BASED ON THE PROMO FOR THE SHOW. Gads of negative comments about how gross for the Gosselins' neighbors, etc., before the show even aired (later in the show they saw it was Beth's private driveway, so bye-bye Pottygate.) None at the time were saying that viewing the tups on potties was fodder for pedophelia.

Look, I could care less if people think Kate and Jon are making poor choices by overexposing their kids to the public and overcomplicating their lives. But why go after ever other parenting choice they make?

I am noticing lately that an abundance of the more negative posters are recounting their own past experiences with bad parents and/or bad childhoods.

Now, while I know not every negative poster has had those experiences (and I dare say a few positive posters may have had those experiences) I can't help but wonder if that doesn't color how they view Kate Gosselin, and why there's the "go for the jugular" mentality among so many of them.

Obviously, we all experience things slanted by our personal perception and history. I, personally, have no reason to hate Kate Gosselin because she's sometimes annoying and possibly rude to people I don't know. This will be Kate's cross to bear, not mine. Tearing her apart won't heal some viewer's past hurts, it just perpetuates the hurt.

anya said...

AgainAnonymous - thanks for your post. I agree with just about everything you have to say.

I have said for some time that people's reactions to Kate Gosselin (and how passionate they hold said views) often says more about them than Kate.

Just to show I can dish out my own analysis. Why do *I* defend Kate? For starters - I doubt we would be "best buds" in real life! (Not really into the Assembly of God thingie). The primary reason I think is I just can't stand sanctimonious know-it-alls that pick apart everything with so little evidence to back it up. And the last year or so has taught me a lesson. I think we as women are often too hard on ourselves and each other. We often have a perceived idea of what an ideal mother is, i.e. Jodi. The reality is there are millions of us moms and others who are in a parental role. We make mistakes, but the VAST majority try our best and loves our kids with all our heart. I think Kate falls in this category so I will continue to give her the the benefit of the doubt....

AgainAnonymous said...

Anya,

I agree with your position as well.

Sorry if I came across as harsh on people who might have had a hard life. I'm really grasping for any reason (no matter how right or wrong the reason is) people would have to rip into Kate Gosselin like they do.

My original reason for starting to blog at all was that I wanted to raise the very point your mentioned about women being too hard on each other, too judgmental of other mothers. I see myself in Kate AND Jodi, so why paint such stark contrasts between the two?

nomoredrama said...

Anya,
I completely agree. It's so telling that 98% or more of the people participating in this blogging are women.

As women, many of us are very insecure in ourselves. We constantly compare ourselves to others. We compare our children to others children. I wish people would find the confidence in themselves (I include myself in this) to shine without worrying what others think or who's feelings it would hurt. I wish we, as women, would stop trying to live up to the impossible standard that society places on us.

I wish, also, that we would stop trying to impose the impossible standard on others who we deem as not fitting it.

AgainAnonymous said...

nomoredrama,

I second your wishes.

MrsRef said...

I am one who has recounted some bad childhood experiences. For myself, I see some of the same things that happened in our home and do not wish the hurt and pain that I had and still have to be visited on the Gosselins kids. I have tried my best to avoid those behaviors in my own home (not always successful) but that is where my motivation in sharing comes from. For the record, I don't hate Kate, I am no longer the fan that I was in the beginning either. I think she has just started to believe her own PR. I do agree that women can be so nasty to each other. That is a shame, we should build each other up-not tear each other down.

anya said...

MrsRef:

I think it's natural to share our own experiences and sometimes we do have insights into particular situations or behaviors that other posters might not have due to our own upbringing. So I think that's fair game and appropriate to bring into the discussion as long as one stops short of saying "my mother was a narcissist, I know how they act, and Kate is one too." Some posters (not you obviously) do this and this is where I think it goes too far.

Good for you for trying to break damaging behaviors. I know from personal experience that it is a challenge sometimes. What we learn when we are young does stay with us.

Whether we like the Gosselin parents or not, of course, we all want the best for the Gosselin kids even if we disagree on what that entails. Even though I defend J&K for the most part, there have certainly been instances where I did not approve of how they handled a situation or how they talked to their child(ren). Those are sometimes painful to watch because we have grown to care about the kids to a certain degree.

Nancy said...

I have seen a lot of posts on "other blogs" insisting that Kate should get down and "play with her kids" to be a good mother. After reading a few of those posts, I realized that my loving mom must have been a bad parent, and so am I, because we did not "PLAY" with kids! Mom taught me to sew, and cook, and love of reading. I did the same with mine, but never thought to get on the floor and play. Let the kids play on the floor while I read a book! So, I can't fault Kate for how she perceives her role in playing.

Another thing picked on is what she serves the kids for lunch. True, in the past it seemed that the kids only got a few crackers and grapes and a whole lotta juice, but wouldn't Kate know what to feed her own children? Does anyone think she would "starve" her kids? Do the kids look underfed or malnourished?
What does bother me is the vomiting habits of some of the kids, but since we don't see her asking the pediatrician about it, do we assume that she hasn't asked and doesn't care?
Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of Kate. Not at all. But sometimes I think criticizing gets carried too far.

Guinevere said...

Yeah, my mom was not really a "fun, play with the kids" mom. It doesn't mean she wasn't a good mother, or that she didn't show us she loved us.

There a certain things that I think are just hard-wired into a person's personality; Kate could try to be more "fun", but I don't think it's her nature. I've seen her play with the kids a bit, even so. She teases them, too, which I think is cute, but then she often ended up getting criticized for that (as in the bear comment to Joel on Monday's episode).

The vomiting thing always just seemed way overblown to me. Kate is given to hyperbole, and I never really believed that Leah vomited every day for two years, like she said. If she did do it frequently, then I wouldn't be surprised if J&K had her see a doctor. They seem fairly proactive about such things (we saw them take the sextuplets to the dentist at three, which is probably a recommended age but I don't think I went until I was like seven!; we saw her take one of the boys - Collin, I think? - to the eye doctor).

I'd actually never heard of kids vomiting for attention, but I've seen a number of people now say that they've had experience with that, so I guess it's not that rare. Was it a sign that Leah wanted attention? Maybe. But you know what? Having that kids is going to mean that each one may get less parental attention. It's just a fact, driven by the numbers involved. In and of itself, I don't see how it makes J&K bad or neglectful parents. I think they do the best they can in that regard. I think there are reasons - environmental and population control ones, for instance - not to have a big family. But I don't think I have the right to tell everyone what size family they should have.

Anonymous said...

You know I find it to be a great mom when they don't necessarily "play" with their children...That helps teach them independence and encourages them to use their imaginations...So all you mothers out there that aren't "play" moms- Give yourself a pat on the back. For those of you that are, give yourselves a pat too just because you do get down and dirty!