Friday, September 26, 2008

A note to GDNNOP from Penn Mommy

For the record: this is what I have written to the moderators of GDNNOP.
It's not about Fiona having a difference of opinion. It's about Fiona continuously DEMANDING information or answers to her questions. She has essentially asked Julie and I to detail abuses or things we know that are harmful for the children. I won't do that. I have said it a hundred times: I will not violate the privacy of the Gosselin children.. Period. What Julie and I know (and what others know) will have consequences on the kids for the rest of their lives. Someday, it's my hope that they will be able to return to a normal childhood. CPS has been notified (MULTIPLE TIMES by MULTIPLE PEOPLE). That doesn't entitle any of you to know why or when or how or the actions taken/not taken.

In addition, anyone reading the analogies I made and seriously believe I was comparing Kate and Jon to kidnappers didn't read the entire thread. Someone said that Kate and Jon should take every opportunity. My point was that there are times when opportunities shouldn't be taken. There's no sinister subtext, as some here have claimed. I was simply thinking of times when opportunities aren't always a good thing and anyone reading the whole blog should see that. If you don't, that reflects on your suspicious nature. If you are curious as to why I chose to word something in a certain way, then by all means ask me why. I would also appreciate it (though I don't expect it will happen) if people stopped assuming that GWoP and my blog are one in the same. When I was moderating, I can't point to comment after comment where members of this blog accused me of blocking comments. However, now I'm being slammed for not moderating and trusting people to refrain from nastiness (ON BOTH SIDES!) for forty-eight hours. So, which is it? My blog is also not a place where criticizing the children for being children is allowed. I have also stated, very plainly, that I think Jon and Kate love their children. That doesn't mean they're not in over the heads and making bad choices. Anyone who claims I hate Kate or Jon is sorely mistaken. I hate no one. Hate is a strong emotion that implies one has no pity or senses no redeeming qualities about the person they hate. I don't "hate" Jon or Kate (and one should note that I don't allow out-and-out bashing of either). I am disappointed by them. I am skeptical of their claims as I've seen many people hurt by them and have counted numerous lies and inconsistencies. Neither of those equates to hate.

I hope you will allow this to be posted.

157 comments:

Anonymous said...

I read this blog posting on her site and thought it was funny because anyone who has read the comments made on her site are basically the same group of children(because they are) posting and posting over and over again who don't have a life so I'm wondering if she will still allow comments through with these same small group of children.

nomoredrama said...

Before anyone asks, I made this a main blog posting so that responses will be made over here (lest we be accused of starting a GDNNOP war over there).

This was my response to Penn Mommy, in case it doesn't make it through moderation

This post was never received on our site so I'm not sure if it was emailed or made as a comment. Either way, we will post it and allow others to respond. I will save you the hassle of having to deal with responses to it here.

For the record, none of the people who posted the things Penn Mommy has highlighted in her posts are posters at our board. And Fiona is CERTAINLY not a regular here.

I'll respond to the actual comment made later.

Guinevere said...

It's about Fiona continuously DEMANDING information or answers to her questions.

Unbelievable, considering the behavior of the vast majority of the posters at your blog - those that feel they have a right to know every detail of every aspect of the Gosselins' lives. Fiona is no different than the rest of them - she just doesn't go along with the crowd quite as well.

In addition, anyone reading the analogies I made and seriously believe I was comparing Kate and Jon to kidnappers didn't read the entire thread. Someone said that Kate and Jon should take every opportunity. My point was that there are times when opportunities shouldn't be taken. There's no sinister subtext, as some here have claimed.

I would not expect you to take responsibility for your disgusting comment, so this doesn't surprise me. It doesn't make the comment any less revolting. You don't just happen to come up with an example that involves the kidnapping, rape and murder of a child.

For the record, in this instance, I'm not even indignant on J&K's behalf. I mean, I am, a little, but more I'm thinking of how absolutely unconscionable it is to use the name of a murdered child to pursue your vendetta against the Gosselins. You really have no shame. Then, of course, you and the minions get all het up about Fiona's comment about your son in the same blog entry. Her comment was not nearly as offensive as yours, but no one there seems to have the decency to realize that.

Anonymous said...

Has Penn Mommy given out any real information or "truth"? From what I have read it seems like anyone could have said what she said. Now don't blast me for it, because I know she has a sick son. Just my thoughts.

Anonymous said...

I am not a fan of your site. GWoP is my home base. But I am glad you gave me the opportunity here to say that Penn Mommy has no credibility and her blog is worthless. I think she is playing with all of you. Looks like she is having a pretty good time of it also.

Penn Mommy said...

Anonymous said...
I read this blog posting on her site and thought it was funny because anyone who has read the comments made on her site are basically the same group of children(because they are) posting and posting over and over again who don't have a life so I'm wondering if she will still allow comments through with these same small group of children.

Is this blog any different? I haven't read very much, but I've seen quite a lot of people who routinely post here.

And Fiona is CERTAINLY not a regular here.

That's very interesting. She has claimed otherwise and used it in e-mails to myself and others where she claims she is very tight with you all. In fact, in one instance, she bragged about getting kicked off of GWoP and used it to prove an alliance with someone she met here. Perhaps she has played both sides of the fence?

This was my response to Penn Mommy, in case it doesn't make it through moderation
I truly don't understand comments like this. It seems to be standard issue on GDNNOP posters who post on my blog. And, for the record, the only time I don't publish a comment is upon request or in cases where people on both sides have resorted to name-calling. Read my comments. If I were keeping out contrary opinions, then why are there so many of you in comments to my entries?

Fiona is no different than the rest of them - she just doesn't go along with the crowd quite as well.
You are entitled to your opinion. I, however, think it's quite different to post a question six or seven times when it's already been addressed before.

I would not expect you to take responsibility for your disgusting comment, so this doesn't surprise me.
How was my post revolting? I take full responsibility for it. That doesn't mean I agree with your perception. Could I have said it with better examples of BAD OPPORTUNITIES? Sure.

but more I'm thinking of how absolutely unconscionable it is to use the name of a murdered child to pursue your vendetta against the Gosselins.
And you call me revolting? If you truly feel that that was my goal, then I'm shocked that you would deem me important enough to respond to. You don't get to define my motivations based on your dislike for what I say.

You really have no shame. Then, of course, you and the minions get all het up about Fiona's comment about your son in the same blog entry.
I have no control over "my minions". Just as I have no control over you or Fiona or any one else. Fiona made the comment about my son because she was angry I wouldn't share every bad thing I know, or that Jodi and Julie know, about Jon and Kate. How are her demands for information about abuse (potential or real) decent? What kind of person goes around trolling the net looking for someone to talk about abuse towards a child(ren)? For someone who claims to stand in opposition to unnecessary criticisms or dispersal of private information about the Gosselins, I find it ironic that you wouldn't understand why I refused her request. But, as always, you are entitled to your opinion.

Anonymous said...
Has Penn Mommy given out any real information or "truth"? From what I have read it seems like anyone could have said what she said. Now don't blast me for it, because I know she has a sick son. Just my thoughts.

My son has nothing to do with my credibility on the Gosselins. Or, were you being sarcastic? You have no reason to believe me. So, if you choose not to believe me, then that's entirely up to you.

Tyra said...

I will not violate the privacy of the Gosselin children.. Period.

You just did, PM.

That doesn't entitle any of you to know why or when or how or the actions taken/not taken.

So, you choose to throw out that someone 'in the know' called CPS, someone besides TWoP/GWoP obsessives. But, if it was (likely) a baseless call, and no action was taken, you don't think that's anyone's right to know? The reason you report to CPS instead of gathering a mob and handing out the pitchforks is so that an objective authority can investigate and gather, you know, facts and evidence.

You know better than the legal authorities, then? You think internet vigilantes will do a better job? Well, you've poured blood in the water, and of course the sharks will come to feed.

You know who I think doesn't have any right? It's you, Penn Mommy. How dare you? How dare you decide that that information is yours to use in any casual, cruel, misleading way you choose?

How convenient for you that you can post the innuendo without having to be bothered with providing facts.

Now, the assertion that someone who knows the Gosselins and their kids called CPS is just more detritus on the internet. And all to serve your ego. You want to be 'right' and righteous so badly that you are willing to use information that violates the privacy of the Gosselin kids.

This is the internet, for God's sake! It's a cess pool of irrationality, hatred, and vigilantism. You have thrown the kids you say you're protecting into that cess pool. Your self-serving actions are indecent and dishonorable.

nomoredrama said...

That's very interesting. She has claimed otherwise and used it in e-mails to myself and others where she claims she is very tight with you all. In fact, in one instance, she bragged about getting kicked off of GWoP and used it to prove an alliance with someone she met here. Perhaps she has played both sides of the fence?

I have never before outright called someone a liar but in this case, SOMEONE is lying. If Fiona said she is "tight" with any of us, she is most certainly confused. Please, provide the name of the person she said she is "tight" with and let them respond.

Of course, you'll say "I am not going to resort..." or some other blah, blah, blah reason for why you won't. Whether she told you that or not I can tell you with 100% certainty that this is not true. Don't believe me? Read anywhere on here where Fiona has posted. We've always had a relationship of contempt with her.

Fiona is a GWoPer. She didn't get kicked off of there, she was just posting there last week. If this is your feeble attempt to make us look bad it isn't going to work.

I truly don't understand comments like this. It seems to be standard issue on GDNNOP posters who post on my blog.
Why do you act like we talk every day about you not publishing comments? I think this may have happened once on this site. It was a misunderstanding and I believe it was cleared up. Why do you feel the need to bring it up over and over? You're grasping at straws. I said what I said tongue-in-cheek because you made it seem as if you had posted your comment over here and it didn't get approved. Since none of the mods received your comment nor received an email, I'm not sure where your first line "This is what I have written to the moderators of GDNNOP" came from.

And while we're on the subject of posting...why do you feel the need to accuse GDNNOP of being responsible for all of your negative posting? Only a handful of us have posted on your site, myself included. I've been respectful but have been called plenty of nasty names by your biggest supporters (like witch..and no, the person didn't say this outright but might as well have). Have I come over to your blog and called you a name? Please, don't delude yourself into thinking your only opponents (for lack of a better word) post here. You have plenty of nay-sayers. We need to give credit where credit is due. Your most adamant opponent, the one you said is mentally unstable...she's from GWoP. I wonder how many more are like her over there? Has to make anyone who is looking to protect the interest of the Gosselin children wonder what type of people they are feeding this information to. Are they all stable? Definitely not....why do you think the Gosselins have had to beef up their security? Are you sure this is the company you want to keep?

Finally, while I'm responding to you, I'll respond to what you said in the main posting

In addition, anyone reading the analogies I made and seriously believe I was comparing Kate and Jon to kidnappers didn't read the entire thread. Someone said that Kate and Jon should take every opportunity. My point was that there are times when opportunities shouldn't be taken. There's no sinister subtext, as some here have claimed. I was simply thinking of times when opportunities aren't always a good thing and anyone reading the whole blog should see that. If you don't, that reflects on your suspicious nature.

I completely understood your point. I think you made your point in a crass way. It has nothing to do with being suspicious. It has everything to do with having a brain in my head.I don't believe for a second that you randomly selected those analogies. Even if, for the sake of argument, they were random...You at least knew there was a potential for backlash, otherwise you wouldn't have tried to qualify your statement "I'm not comparing Jon and Kate to kidnappers." If that wasn't your intent, then why make the analogy at all?

My OPINION was that the comment was distasteful and I expressed it. Why is it that the people who express opinions different from your own are labeled "supicious, crazy, etc?"

I also think the comment comparing J&K to the family during the Holicost was inappropriate. IMO, comments like these (and yours) make light of the suffering that people have endured.

GWoP is not Nazi Germany. Jon and Kate are not rapist and murderers. We're talking about a television show here. Maybe to you, you've had first hand experience and you haven't been treated well. That doesn't make it ok to say whatever you please (you or anyone). J&K are human beings and have a right to be regarded as such.

indianprincess said...

Penn Mommy said, "Someday, it's my hope that they will be able to return to a normal childhood. CPS has been notified (MULTIPLE TIMES by MULTIPLE PEOPLE). That doesn't entitle any of you to know why or when or how or the actions taken/not taken."

IMO Well I had to say something about this. This made my blood boil and I can't keep my mouth shut any longer. You don't write something like this unless You(penn mommy) have contacted CPS yourself and were involved with the case or contacted in a investigation. Then maybe you shouldn't just throw out that CPS has been notified from multiple people/multiple times and then say to your readers of your blog they are not entitled any of the details. FYI.. CPS is serious business. I've been in that system and don't think when they do there investigation on the Gosselins the children wouldn't be affected. Social Workers do ask the children questions about there Mom and Dad and ask them questions no child should be asked. So how harmful would that be to the children? My sister was 8 just like Mady and Cara are going to be and it took her years to get over being asked questions an 8 year old should never be aware of it. It's no happy questions. So just saying the comment on your blog you better have facts to back it up because Lawyers don't take it nicely for False Accusations of Child Abuse. CPS isn't your local starbucks and you just don't go in to talk casual of maybe you may have proof a child is getting abused. You have fact or you don't. You have the right to your blog and say your truth but you lost all truth when you sling out there of casually commenting about CPS.

Anonymous said...

Indianprincess, it's very unfortunate that you and your siblings/parents had difficulty with CPS, but you are also not sharing private information about the circumstances, circumstances that are not always pretty or straightforward while trying to sort facts out. Not sharing private information is fine and completely understandable, but it also makes me as a reader wonder about whether there were real concerns that prompted valid action in your situation. Kind of the same thing going on with Pen Mommy and not sharing specific information. Why are we assuming that CPS notification was a false accusation if in fact there was a report? Should someone that sees something not make a call and protect parents, or make a call and protect children? If there are/were legitimate concerns by people in and around this family about these children that prompted a CPS call and that info about a home visit, or other action got out in the "neighborhood, small town business" as these things sometimes do, does that mean that CPS should not have been called, because it can be an uncomfortable situation? If this did happen and Jon and Kate discussed it with family members/friends in the community, then there is the possibility that people talked about the situation and it became small town discussion, concern about the situation. I'm sure CPS does their best with limited resources to sort through reports, as they are required to look into every report. Hotline reporting is intended to protect children in difficult situations and the process and solutions can also be difficult. Should it be broadcast on the internet? No, but here we are, having a go at it as these parents have chosen to live their lives and put the lives of their children in the public domain.

jhawksgirl1 said...

*****Administrative Post: This post is actually being posted by "nomoredrama." I copied it from over on Penn Mommy's blog. Yet another blogger who supposedly submitted a comment that never showed up. Here it is***********

I am sick of what this site has become because its what you all hate about GWoP. When this posted I read pennmommys site "cover to cover". I think the responses in here have been screwed up. She didn't say this blog was bad because of Fiona, she said Fiona might be saying what you want to hear because of the post here that talks about her changing from Anti-kate to pro-Kate and now back again. I have not read a comment by pennmommy thats calling any blogger crazy or nutty. I count six posts in four entries of people here who go there and say "you won't post this" and stuff. No clue where you got that she verified CPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She is talking about it not being public information if it were true. I read this way different I guess. What did she do to you? Show the class where she's been rude or insulting to us. She never says the bad posters are from only one side but you suggest she is. What the he-double hockey sticks? There is no where she compared Jon or Kate to kidnappers. OMG! I usually agree with Guinevere but this is really over the top wrong. It just is. Where do these lines from her blog fit into this hate theory?

I'm not comparing Jon and Kate to kidnappers, but opportunities aren't always a justification for making bad choices.

I don't think there's any doubt that they love their children. I am sure they do. I don't think them not loving the children is the problem.

Really, in my opinion, kids will fall down and get hurt. That's just the way it is. I don't think it's reasonable to rake Jon and Kate over the coals for it.

I had poked around on GWoP prior to tonight, but not read much (if anything...I say that because it seems like the sites get jumbled up) on GDDNoP. Each side had some good and bad.

I guess I'm not comfortable judging their beliefs on the standard of how often their rears are in the pews.

About why she linked to this site.
I've also had some time to look at all the other blogs in the "Gossel-o-sphere". I've posted a few links...most of you already know them. Some are going to ask why I linked so-and-so. It's really simple. Everyone should be free to read all sides and come to their own conclusion. I couldn't, in good consicence, put up only one aspect of this story. There are great insights and wonderful commenters on BOTH of those sites.
In this post she made an apology to people which makes me think she is okay with responsibility for her words.
http://pennmommyfortruth.blogspot.com/2008/09/apology.html

delurkerloo said...

If CPS has indeed been contacted MULTIPLE times by MULTIPLE people and Jon and Kate Plus 8 is still on the air that tells me something is amiss somewhere. If CPS has been contacted there is no doubt that TLC/Figure 8 would have been questioned since their input would be essential to the case. TLC is in the business to make money and the Gosselins are one of their biggest money makers. No way, no how would their lawyers advise them to continue promoting a family if there were even the slightest verification that the children are being abused.

In my mind I can't get past that logical conclusion, so I'll to choose to believe that either the Gosselins were investigated by CPS and completed cleared in a quick fashion or the allegations never warranted an investigation in the first place. This is where the problem lies. Making comments about CPS causes people to speculate and make assumptions based on scant and vague facts about the very serious allegation of child abuse. There are those that will jump on the statement PM made about CPS and use it as proof that Jon and Kate are in fact child abusers under the law. That goes way beyond advocating for the Gosselin children's rights in the entertainment industry.

MommyZinger said...

I haven't read all the above comments but some of the comments over at PM's were mine. I have also submitted my response there.

Sorry, ladies for bringing negative attention here. I didn't not mention GDDNOP at all in my posts so I am not sure how you got involved.

Apologies all around.

nomoredrama said...

Jhawkgirl,
I have no idea who you are. Maybe i'm not paying attention but I've never seen you post here before. Do you post here under a different name?

Now, I don't read every post on this blog but please point me to the posts where people are talking about comments not being published at Penn Mommy. If you're right, fine. I've only seen it on one thread and the situation was resolved between Penn Mommy and the poster.

She didn't say this blog was bad because of Fiona, she said Fiona might be saying what you want to hear because of the post here that talks about her changing from Anti-kate to pro-Kate and now back again.
No one said that this was said, first off. I said that she is trying to make us look bad by claiming that Fiona is a regular poster here. Thus, she shifts the blame for her craziest, most ridiculous posts to our site. Secondly, point me to where she said "Fiona is telling GDNNOP what they want to hear." I don't recall her saying that. And, just because we talked about her shifting her opinion, it doesn't mean that we condone the way she handled her questions on Penn Mommy's site. Oh yeah, and for the 90th time, she doesn't share our mindset. Any post you see on here from her is argumentative.

I have not read a comment by pennmommy thats calling any blogger crazy or nutty.
Really? Fiona, don't post here anymore. I'm tired of the drama you seem hellbent on starting. With full disclosures: I do not think you are mentally stable and having freedom to post on this blog has shown your colors
Without saying whether I agree or disagree with her statement, this is one of the most recent examples. I don't have time to dig through every blog entry and comment she's made...Didn't have to look very hard for that one.

No clue where you got that she verified CPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She is talking about it not being public information if it were true.
Again, really? Did you read the blog entry you were commenting on?
She said Someday, it's my hope that they will be able to return to a normal childhood. CPS has been notified (MULTIPLE TIMES by MULTIPLE PEOPLE). That doesn't entitle any of you to know why or when or how or the actions taken/not taken.

No one is pulling this out of their behinds. It is right there, in plain text. (and for the record, once again, Fiona is not one of us. None of us have asked for confirmation that CPS has been called. I once said to Julie that if she felt the kids were in danger she should call. Never asked to confirm whether or not she had)

What did she do to you? Show the class where she's been rude or insulting to us. She never says the bad posters are from only one side but you suggest she is.
Ok, I'll bite. Just a few examples...
In fact, some of the more popular GDNNOP regulars can be seen in comments authorized today. Be patient and grow up. (directed to Anya)

So, it's kind of a wonder when someone goes to GWoP and copies negative posts from THERE to put HERE, so that they can send e-mails saying, "How can you allow this on your blog, if you're protecting the kids?" To these people, I ask,...are you nuts? You don't get to seed your argument with comments from somewhere else to start a fight here. Grow up!
Yes, Penn Mommy was pissed about the "blog war" that was basically started by Julie who said As far as GDNNOP--I've never seen a more hateful site.
People brought posts over because they thought, for some reason,they though Julie may have been unaware of what was said. Little did they know she was fully aware and didn't give a crap. So Julie starts it and Penn Mommy finishes it by admonishing those who dared to bring the posts to Julie. Not mentioning Julie's role or the role of every other blogger. Nope, just a few people got singled out.
To Fiona:
What I won't do is get into an internet war with you (which is, my guess, what you really want). I have respected the waters of GDDNOP because going there and correcting the posters would only create unrest and, what my son calls, "flame wars".
**note that she tries to imply that Fiona is a regular on this site which is absolutely false.

OMG! I usually agree with Guinevere but this is really over the top wrong. It just is
I believe those of us who have already addressed this are quite tired of repeating ourselves. If you'd like an answer, scroll up.

Where do these lines from her blog fit into this hate theory?
Where do you get the idea that we are calling Penn Mommy a hate blog? GWoP already has the patten on that. And btw, she apparantly condones what is said there. So, any backlash about hate has to do with her laissez-faire attitude about what is posted on GWoP. How can someone be furious that posts from GWoP are put onto her site but then make excuses for what is written. If what is said over there is so egregious that you don't want it on your own blog, why condone?

Why am I so annoyed? Because of little tricks like the one she pulled last night. That post was never sent here. I'm sick of her trying to point the finger over here.

Saint said...

FYI regarding CPS in my PA county:

Some professionals are required by law (statewide) to report ANY suspicions of child abuse. Anyone can report anything they suspect.

CPS must investigate. An investigation is ONLY proof of a report. It is not proof of abuse. In PA, a professional can make a report anonymously. When reporting this way, CPS gets as much information as possible to begin investigating. Everyone involved is questioned as gently as possible. The ultimate goal is to keep families together and to give as much support as needed to make that happen, safely. Little children rarely want to leave their parents. There is a lot of fear (as another poster experienced) regardless of how gently the children are approached. The safety of the children is paramount. The person making the report is interviewed, but is entitled to no follow-up information.

The system works in many cases. The system is also imperfect. Silliness might be reported while abuse goes unreported. It can be a really miserable world out there, as many of you know firsthand.

Regarding the Gosselins: I would not be surprised that people called CPS on such a public figure with an abrasive (at times) parenting style. It happens. I think the TV show is a really bad idea, seen in a prudential light, but I personally have never seen anything on the TV show to warrant a call to CPS. It is possible someone else has, but I have no idea at all about whether it happened or not.

Regarding Pennmommy: I haven't read everything, but I think that she has mentioned reports she heard about; has implied she hasn't reported anything herself because she saw nothing reportable; doesn't know about the outcome of any reports; doesn't speculate about the outcomes of possible reports. I also suspect that the people personally involved with the Gosselin's do not want the kids removed from the home, but want to see an advocate for the children working on J&K+8, if the show is going to remain on the air.

No blog wants to own that poster Fiona. I don't see how any blog can be blamed for anything a poster says.

Linda said...

I posted this a long time ago about GwoP and I think that it is fitting to consider regarding the vague allegations of abuse made by PM.

=========================

"The anatomy of a rumor ala (blank). If we repeat the same rumor over and over and over and over again it is now fact and we can say that it has been "reported." Similarly, if we hold on to an opinion passionately and fervently enough, that opinion
now rises to the level of FACT."

==========================

What is being alleged even vaguely is sick and reminds me of what happens in some divorce and custody disputes. Desperation makes people suggest extreme things.

I don't agree with it but I can understand how the emotions of a failed marriage and the contentiousness of custody cause misguided and emotionally stressed people to make people say these things.

I cannot understand in any way shape or form how people could do this about a tv show. It is sick.

Anonymous said...

Great post all around, Saint.

It is very possible that CPS would investigate a call or two on a family like this without removing children or taking legal action to cancel a show. If that had happened, legal action to cancel a show, it would be huge and I'm pretty sure the PA legal proceedings would have hit the airwaves. Not with the children's issues, but with the possible parent issues. I guess if children had been removed, it would be pretty hard to continue the show, even if it is 95% about Jon and Kate. CPS, as Saint has stated, is not in the business of specifically removing children from parents, but rather finding workable solutions to any problem. Just speculation, but if a situation like this did occur, it could be a monitored thing rather than a removal thing.

And Linda, I guess it is unfortunate that all of us are here talking about these issues in regard to a television show. I wish the circumstances of this show were such that none of these blogs, none of the ridicule ever happened. Jon and Kate have had plenty of opportunity to leave the spotlight and take their children with them.

Anonymous said...

Fiona is a GWoPer. She didn't get kicked off of there, she was just posting there last week. If this is your feeble attempt to make us look bad it isn't going to work. Say what you like it very clear from sentence structure, misspellings, grammar errors people on this blog are impersonating others!
And PennMommy doesn't have to do anything to make this site look bad as you all do that so well on your own. And did so way before PennMommy came along. Worse bunch of hypocrites I've had the misfortune to read.

Nina Bell said...

Since I am the blog owner, I receive comments submitted here both on the dashboard of the blog and in the email. We did not receive a comment from either Penn Mommy or this person called jhawksgirl1. Last night when Penn Mommy stated she posted, Guin, nomoredrama and myself were all on and none of us viewed her comment on the dashboard nor did we get emails.

What I find interesting is that we post comments like the one above this from disgruntled people all the time. Why wouldn't we post Penn Mommy's or Jhawkgirl. Makes no sense to me.

Tyra said...

Quote:

Should someone that sees something not make a call and protect parents, or make a call and protect children?

Of course a call should be made. But after that, the person who made the call shouldn't spread the info to the entire world. It's gossip and innuendo, and it potentially harms the children involved.

Want to be a good citizen, then report serious allegations. But after that, the information isn't yours to share.

Anonymous said...

I have never before outright called someone a liar but in this case, SOMEONE is lying. If Fiona said she is "tight" with any of us, she is most certainly confused. Please, provide the name of the person she said she is "tight" with and let them respond.

Of course, you'll say "I am not going to resort..." or some other blah, blah, blah reason for why you won't. Whether she told you that or not I can tell you with 100% certainty that this is not true. Don't believe me? Read anywhere on here where Fiona has posted. We've always had a relationship of contempt with her.

Fiona is a GWoPer. She didn't get kicked off of there, she was just posting there last week. If this is your feeble attempt to make us look bad it isn't going to work.


Oh, no. Fiona is NOT a "GWoPer." We occasionally let some of her comments through. But we reject the vast majority of her comments. Just like anyone else we are not the same as the commenters on the board or blog. People have their own opinions and each needs to be responsible as individuals. Fiona is a troubled soul. She travels the blogs and boards looking for a home. She thinks she's found one and tries to snuggle up. She becomes disenchanted and flounces off telling tales of the prior home. Repeat cycle.

MCB said...

asked Julie and I to detail abuses or things we know that are harmful for the children. I won't do that. I have said it a hundred times: I will not violate the privacy of the Gosselin children.

Oh, please. You (and Julie) already have.

Absolutely no self-awareness, whatsoever. The moment Penn Mommy and Julie opened their yaps and joined the hater crusade, they were harming those children. Julie aligning herself with GWoP and enjoying hero status at such a place is all the proof I need that she is harming those children by feeding the zealots who hate Jon and Kate.

CPS has been notified (MULTIPLE TIMES by MULTIPLE PEOPLE). That doesn't entitle any of you to know why or when or how or the actions taken/not taken.

Once again, self-awareness not a strong suit with PennMommy.

Talks of calling CPS was the beginning of the end of the Jon and Kate thread at TWoP. Even TWoP, who allow some really nasty commentary at times, realize that this wasn't right and that the people behind calling them were way too over-invested and needed a permanent time out from posting. Perhaps PennMommy and Julie should spend more time with their own kids and less time on the Internet.

Tyra said...

Quote:

Regarding Pennmommy: I haven't read everything, but I think that she has mentioned reports she heard about; has implied she hasn't reported anything herself because she saw nothing reportable; doesn't know about the outcome of any reports; doesn't speculate about the outcomes of possible reports.

PennMommy speaks as if she has personal knowledge of the reports, as well as the people reporting. How else could she state, "CPS has been notified (MULTIPLE TIMES BY MULTIPLE PEOPLE)"? (Note the emphatic CAPS she used.) Does she have the right to inform the internet world that this has happened? How does that help the children involved?

Nina Bell said...

To the last anon poster

I will not post your comment as is.

If you would like to edit your comment and resubmit it, I will post it.

Anonymous said...

I think that here are 2 posters: "Fiona" and "fiona."

Will the real F(f)iona please stand up?

MCB said...

basically started by Julie who said "As far as GDNNOP--I've never seen a more hateful site."

Riiiight, honey. Keep telling yourself that. You align yourself with a blog who's members have a vendetta to personally destroy a family, just because you all don't care for the mother, and you call THIS site hateful? The regular posters at here at GDNNOP are actually sticking up for something and someone that we feel is being wrongly and unfairly targeted and WE'RE hateful? Honey, please. The only thing we "hate" are your motives and actions, which DO define "hateful." Also misguided.

Besides, no site can be considered hateful who links to the The Daily Puppy!

marci said...

pennmommy,

Are you so full of yourself that you don't see your hypocracy?

In the middle of saying you and Julie (who in an earlier post said she's seen nothing personally that would be reportable) would NEVER say anything that is private info about the children, and therefore harmful to them, you mention that CPS has been called multiple times by multiple people!

You've said yourself, when asked why you haven't said or done anything, that there wasn't out and out "abuse."

Which is it?

I'm even more convinced now that your motives are completely questionable. You obviously want the attention. If there was ANY credibilty to the tales of your personal experiences you've completely ruined that credibility by speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

MCB said...

Seriously, though, why do they care so much about what we think? So much for GDNNOP, being such in "inconsequential, lonely little blog."

Personally, the only thing I find enjoyable about this is watching the haters turn on themselves and having this blog stay above the fray. I say let them eat each other alive.

Linda said...

anonymous 7:58 wrote:

"And Linda, I guess it is unfortunate that all of us are here talking about these issues in regard to a television show. I wish the circumstances of this show were such that none of these blogs, none of the ridicule ever happened. Jon and Kate have had plenty of opportunity to leave the spotlight and take their children with them."

===================

I think that this may be where you and I disagree.

I do not believe that because they are on tv that this gives everyone and their brother the right to go after them.

Anonymous said...

Isn't this whole conversation just the evidence any parent would need to know that using your children for a show like this, especially if the show contains clips of behavior that is way outside of any sort of loving kindness and respect, a good indication that the show is problematic and should end?

Anonymous said...

But, Linda--if this family were not on television, the good, the bad and the ugly, we wouldn't be here, would we?

I accept our choice to agree to disagree :-)

Linda said...

anonymous 10:06 a.m. -

Your position comes dangerously close to suggesting that they've asked for it.

I couldn't disagree more.

FIONA said...

And Fiona is CERTAINLY not a regular here.

That's very interesting. She has claimed otherwise and used it in e-mails to myself and others where she claims she is very tight with you all. In fact, in one instance, she bragged about getting kicked off of GWoP and used it to prove an alliance with someone she met here. Perhaps she has played both sides of the fence?
----
That is 100% not true. I have never been kicked off GWoP, and I have no alliance with anyone on this blog. Post any emails you presumably have from me, check my IP address. You are a liar, among other things.

However, as a person of above average intelligence, I do have it within me to step back and reasses. How many of you can say the same.

I still feel the same about the G's, but I think PM has a motive, not sure if it is just attention, all her kids are off to school now. Is it revenge? I do not think for one minute that she is doing this to "protect the kids", or to keep anyone from being fleeced further by the G's. My opinion is if she truly had everyone's best interests at heart, she and Jodi would have taken their concerns and accusation to the proper authorities, not an internet blog.

PM, I am a healthy, emotionally stable and happy individual. I am also able to look at things and reexamine my own motives and intentions.

You gave yourself a scapegoat...OK. But face it, your blog is just one big gossip site filled with hate.

Anonymous said...

Linda--asking for it? Of course not, not ever. But a fact of life in the spotlight? Yes, unfortunately.

If actions from the controversy that this show creates would cause my family to feel the need to have bodyguards, that would be a waving flag and call to action for me. Action to change things on behalf of my family. Do they deserve that much controversy? Probably not, but it does exist and has been brought about by the circumstances of their choices and it could be changed quickly by ripping up a contract and paying off the cost of changing a family's course of action on behalf of that family.

My goodness, wouldn't it be happier for them, to not have to deal with these issues? Whether the issues should not have been created in the first place or not, here they are and the decision to change lies in the hands of the parents.

Fanny said...

Pennmommy said...

"It's not about Fiona having a difference of opinion. It's about Fiona continuously DEMANDING information or answers to her questions. She has essentially asked Julie and I to detail abuses or things we know that are harmful for the children. I won't do that"


I will agree that Fiona needs to back off a bit, but here's the thing...the people that frequent pm's blog are not there because they like her or they think she's interesting. They think she has answers, and they want them. Fiona may be a tad more aggressive, but THEY ALL want to know. That's is what they came for.

The tone of the blog is very clear. Pennmommy wants to tell people what she knows. Just not EVERYTHING she knows. Same with Julie. I personally don't think that any of it is the business of internet strangers, but the problem is, if you don't want anyone to ask, why not just say you don't know? Is it because it might cause them to question your credibility?


I've seen posts from both Julie and PM to the effect of "believe me or not, I don't really care". But then I've also seen posts from them both (after fiona questioned their credibility) eluding to abuse, but not wanting to give further detail "I know it's happening, but that's all I'll say or "people close to the family have concerns but I'm not gonna tell you why."

I don't know how many times the anti's have used the statement "They put themselves on tv, so they were asking for it" when trying to defend their disturbing NEED to know every detail of their lives. From where J&K sit, they are all "Fionas". They are being badgered about everything from who cooks their food, to whether or not the toilet paper they use to wipe their asses is paid for with their own money...all the dumb, petty shit that has NOTHING to do with the way they raise their kids. PM and JULIE are talking about CHILD ABUSE and they have trouble seeing how anyone would care to know the details? WHAT EVER


In my personal opinion, these two are more concerned with making people believe them and holding on to the hero worship than they are with protecting the privacy of those kids.

Anonymous said...

But, Fiona--you did try to get in tight with GWoP, and asked what you could do to help and tried to make your position as one of us, originally. Then got ticked off as we couldn't get our minds around taking that kind of commenting in with open arms? As someone who has personally denied many, many of your posts, I am sorry that it's so hard for you to get your point across, but the fact is, with all of the abuse GWoP takes for accepting comments that are not necessarily the viewpoint of the mods, if we had accepted 80% of what you wrote, it would be crazy, just as your posts in the waste bin are.

And, by the way, Fiona--isn't your daughter off to school, as well? Haven't you mentioned how much time you have to fill because of this?

Tyra said...

Quote:
My goodness, wouldn't it be happier for them, to not have to deal with these issues? Whether the issues should not have been created in the first place or not, here they are and the decision to change lies in the hands of the parents.

No one else is responsible for their own behavior, then? Free pass for everyone? Do you think it's right to inform the public at large that a CPS report has been filed by someone who knows the Gosselins?

What's ironic is that PennMommy doesn't even realize that she's violated her own code of conduct.

PepP said...

If Penn Mommy can lie about Fiona emailing her/having an alliance with GDNNOP, what else is she lying about?

Anonymous said...

Out of curiosity, I checked back to see if you posted my note about the waste of time here, and I guess it didn't get through because I said everyone including myself was nutty. I guess I just wanted to check one more time before I leave this weird J&K world, because it is so sad. Everyone goes back and forth saying, "This is the right blog, no our blog is better." It is so first grade. I even took time to look at Penn Mommy's blog, and I'm not sure what everyone is so riled about. I know this won't get posted either, but the moderaters at all these wacky blogs need to take a deep breath, and maybe go outside for a little while. I know I am a hypocrite because I am here when I should be doing something useful, but this is my first experience with any blog wars, and I find it like a horrible accident--and you can't look away. Yikes! I remain anonymous because I don't want any of either sides' wrath focused on me. I enjoy the show, but would like to see it come to an end so everyone would move on. I don't expect this one to get posted either, but thought I'd try. Have a great weekend, and lighten up.

Linda said...

Fanny,

I think that you are dead on in your assessment.

PM had entire blog entries dedicated to answering questions and now she is suddenly put out that Fiona is seeking (yes repeatedly) answers to her questions?

Come on.

Saint said...

Tyra, a few posts above you copied part of my post on this thread regarding Pennmommy. I want to respond to the question you raised: (paraphrase) If someone knows that CPS has been called personally, does she have the right to inform the Internet world that this has happened?

Good question; good point. I do think it is wrong to make it public. I do think it can be hurtful to the children. In general, having CPS investigate is embarrassing. If the allegations are false, or even if you really can benefit from CPS involvement to care for your children in a better way, confidentiality eases the sting.

I don't know Pennmommy's motivation in writing about CPS. The tone (all caps) seems defensive. I think (but do not know) that Pennmommy was defensive because a poster named Fiona kept asking her to detail abuse in the Gosselin household and kept questioning whether CPS was called. I've read enough of Pennmommy's blog to believe that she doesn't want to hurt the kids. In other words, I think that PM was defending herself against an insinuation by Fiona that PM doesn't care about the G. kids because she won't call CPS.

nomoredrama said...

What comment did you post and where? This is about the 4th time today someone claimed to have submitted a comment but didn't have it posted. There are 2 mods on and NONE of them have seen this. Resubmit if this is an honest mistake. Why would we not publish a note when we published everything else you posted, ducttape?

Nina Bell said...

I have rejected one comment today and that was because there is someone trying to again get personal info and digs through on someone that posts here.

Anonymous said...

Tyra--I never said that the controversial behavior by viewers is ok, but unfortunately it's a fact of life at this point. A fact that could be dealt with. I don't think I've posted or made comments that personally diss the children, but some could have been read that way, as any conversation here does effect the family, I suppose. The fact remains that I am here commenting, and you are here commenting and that, at this point is a fact of life, it would seem. If I post about CPS, it's hopefully in the broader scope of what this show and reality television may be doing to the children involved. That would be my goal, anyway--hopefully I come close.

If my family were maligned by the public in this way, I hope that I could realize that I couldn't force people to change their behavior, but I would hope that I could make decisions that would make that behavior a non-issue, by becoming an everyday anonymous family.

It is interesting, however--that other families can live in the spotlight without this kind of enraged public. But, then there are the celebrities in our culture from A to Z listers that are criticized and paparazzied on a daily basis, because of how they live their lives and the choices they make.

Linda said...

Actually saint, I think that it is more than that.

(fiona - correct me if I'm wrong)

From what I read, I think that fiona believes that PM is a fraud. That the reason that she is not posting the specifics of the abuse allegations is because there were none (that PM is aware of) not because she cares so much about the G children.

Linda said...

anonymous 11:06 you wrote:

It is interesting, however--that other families can live in the spotlight without this kind of enraged public.

===================

They don't have a Julie fueling the fire.

SoccerMomof3 said...

Fanny said...
I don't know how many times the anti's have used the statement "They put themselves on tv, so they were asking for it" when trying to defend their disturbing NEED to know every detail of their lives. From where J&K sit, they are all "Fionas". They are being badgered about everything from who cooks their food, to whether or not the toilet paper they use to wipe their asses is paid for with their own money...all the dumb, petty shit that has NOTHING to do with the way they raise their kids. PM and JULIE are talking about CHILD ABUSE and they have trouble seeing how anyone would care to know the details? WHAT EVER


I couldn't agree more. I feel like we have gotten so far off task it's ridiculus. I feel like PM has gotten so petty about who has said what that the real reason for the blog has long been gone. I agree wiht a lot of what is being said on this blog about CPS and worrying about what is being said on this site.

CPS is serious business and should not even be talked about on the Internet even if they were called. It's one thing to air their dirty laundry about what they may have said or not have said about donations but it is a whole another thing to go into allegatons of child abuse. I thought that the whole point of the blog was to expand on the "truth" of what really goes on behind the scenes. I didn't know it would turn into ineudo's and I hate that. I also hate the fact that she brought the fight over here. I like this site and hate to see it come under fire.

I know people will say that this site is a bunch of Gosselin lover's, but in actuality it heeds to good debate. Though I cannot say the same for PM's site. I hate that it's gotten like this and I hope that PM, Julie, and those who are worried about the "children" will get back on task and not bicker about what someone may or may not have said.

And I do apologize in advance if this is offensive to anyone. I have been reading both sites since this morning and just felt the need to comment.

Fanny said...

Yep, Linda, and Fiona got the better of her.

Daisy said...

Just so everyone knows, there's been talk of calling CPS since the first season. It's nothing new. If there was a reason to get CPS involved the show would have stopped after the first season. The talk of calling CPS started on the Discovery Health forum that was shut down.

Saint said...

Linda,
Interesting...I hadn't considered that people might think PM is actually a fraud. That would really make PM defensive.

I don't think PM is a fraud because she's posted so much information exposing who she really is to the community the Gosselins live in. She's posted information about her sons and her husband. I'd think someone in that community would say no such "former volunteer" exists. Her portrayal of the Gosselins is pretty unflattering, but she does say, "I don't know" to questions. She doesn't have an answer for everything. She also defends them at times. She also gets posts from Julie who clearly is Jodi's sister. Jodi knows the Gosselins. She'd tell Julie that PM is a fraud if she didn't know who it was. It's too much of a stretch to me to believe that someone could keep up that blog without knowing the people she writes about.


Anyway, Fiona didn't make sense to me, so I started skipping her comments sometime last week. I probably missed enough to have read it wrong.

As for the moderators not letting posts through: my experience is that they do let posts through. My first post here was a criticism of Guinevere' comment. Turns out she is a blog manager here.

Linda said...

soccermomof3,

you wrote:

"I hate that it's gotten like this and I hope that PM, Julie, and those who are worried about the "children" will get back on task and not bicker about what someone may or may not have said."

=======================

To be brutally honest, I'm not so sure that PM and Julie are that worried about the kids.

Julie has defended her association with GwoP and has downplayed the verbally abusive posts that were published repeatedly about the children saying (I'm paraphrasing) that they were for the sake of humor or taken out of context.

PM has made vague references to allegations of abuse and is somehow offended when someone like fiona questions her.

Anonymous said...

Nina Bell,
I sent a comment on the proof positive that was not posted. I just stated how nutty both sides were and that I was the nuttiest for wasting time reading this. I just was surprised how everyone jumps on people with a differing point of view like jackals. I have never read blogs before. I mainly use the computer to pay bills and e-mail. I had a little free time one day and started reading. I can see how it would become addictive. Maybe there is a 12 step program out there. Anyway, I ask myself, at the end of my life, will I wish I had spent more time reading peoples' weird love/hate relationship with the Gosselins. I know, I know, I need to just walk away, and I will. Good Luck, and maybe one day all the Gosselin haters will join hands with all the Gosselin lovers, and the world will be as one :)

Anonymous said...

Excuse my language, but, did I read correctly? These f*cking loons actually called CPS?????????

You have GOT to be kidding. WOW! What jackasses! CPS should be allowed to turn around and press charges against those that waste their time.

Ya know, if these people were so concerned for the children and these people knew the family before the show started, then WHY all of a sudden do they feel the need to NOW call CPS, trash talk them, etc? Seems fishy to me.

If you were so concerned with the children then you should have sought help for them WAY BACK BEFORE they had a show when some of you claim you first knew.

I'm calling BS on it all. I DOUBT any of you haters know this family or have seen abuse first hand. It all comes back to jealousy. You are just jealous of all the attention, money, etc., they are receiving. GET OVER IT!

It's pretty sad that you have nothing better to do than to create lies about someone you may or may not know. I hope like hell that J&K find out who each and every one of you are and press charges against YOU! This all has just gone from ridiculous to INSANE!

Linda said...

I think that fiona is getting such a strong reaction because she may have had a conversion of some sort.

Fiona is not unlike a poster here who used to be a regular at GwoP and was familiar with a secret message board that was even worse than the GwoP blog. She realized that the anti-posts had gotten out of hand and came here to post sometimes.

The Gwoppers came after her with a vengeance.

The reaction that Fiona is getting is similar now that she is not speaking the party line.

Nina Bell said...

Sorry anon 11:38 but it will be posted here. We have gotten so many comments this morning but when I have time I will go back and look for it.

indianprincess said...

To Anon..september 27, 2008 4:49am
Gossip is not fact. Gossip is gossip. I said Lawyers frown upon false accusations of Child Abuse. CPS has to investigate every report they get so if people are reporting something as fact because they heard it through the grapevine then Lawyers don't do kindly to false accusations. It's no one's business if Jon and Kate were reported to the CPS and PennMommy felt to disclose this on her site for all the world to see. I think it's down right irresponible of her with no sense of responsibility for her own actions.

marci said...

PM says this under the "Leave Your Comment" section where she expains how comments will be moderated...

"Any comments containing swear words or attacking another commenter without cause will be immediately deleted. Additionally, any comments in which details of the Gosselin children are exposed in an unsafe or rude manner will be evaluated and may be deleted. The Gosselin children are innocent victims with little say in the way they are being portayed...please try and remember that."

I find it interesting that posts that give "details" of the Gosselin children, no matter how "rude" or "unsafe," would be given the time to be "evaluated" and only, if SHE deems it "safe" might NOT get deleted.

I was under the impression that ANY details about the children were off limits on PMs site. Perhaps that's not the case if said comment bolsters PM's position as a person who's "in the know"?

Again, the last sentence is the height of hypocracy in my view. Yes, the G children ARE the innocent ones in all these discussions.

Have YOU, Pennmommy, gone to the Gosselin children and asked them if they want you on the internet blogging about their parents and their personal family life? Are YOU the designated conduit through which the children will have their say? And, if so, who gave you the designation?

You have an amazing amount of gall to try to keep impressing upon people that you're just blogging to help the Gosselin children. Nice try, but I'm not buying it!

nomoredrama said...

Penn Mommy wants us to excuse her comparisons but earlier this month she jumped all over a poster for doing something similar...

Krista said...

Sorry, not buying it. Why exactly are you posting all of this? To hurt a family even more when you know that this is being linked to a hate site? That jodi's on sister is on and promoting. Its bitterness and resentment in its purest form. If you truly cared about this family, you wouldn't have written the blog. And in the case of Jodi, having her sister bash the family publicly as you have here shows the type of morals you have. Very sad.

September 3, 2008 9:53 PM

Penn Mommy said...

Sorry, not buying it.
Good! Because, I'm not selling it. You have free will to believe or disbelieve whatever you choose.
Why exactly are you posting all of this?
I've stated my reasons countless times. Perhaps you should read it?
To hurt a family even more when you know that this is being linked to a hate site?
What "hate site"? GWoP? How is that a hate site? I didn't even know it existed until yesterday and it doesn't change the truth even if it is a hate site. You have a bias against me because of another website? That's fairly juvenile and really illogical.

...That jodi's on sister is on and promoting.
...and this makes it a hate site? I'm lost. Can you explain how Julie is hateful? Has she said anything that's not true?

Its bitterness and resentment in its purest form.
Over dramatic, much? Bitterness and resentment in it's purest form is would consist of things so horrible that you wouldn't post about them so flippantly. By suggesting that blogs are "bitterness and resentment in it's purest form" undermines people who really suffer at the hands of retaliation. The genocide of Darfur is bitterness and resentful in it's purest form. Telling the truth about a reality television show? Not so much.

September 4, 2008 3:47 AM

Guess it's only ok when SHE makes over-the-top comparisions....

SoccerMomof3 said...

You know Linda I think you are right.

I started thinking about it after your comment and its true. I haven't seen a lot of Julie's comments because quite frankly it takes forever to read anything of substance over there. (Look at me...I'm feeding into what I was talking about.)

But I agree with you, if you make even the vaguest reference to those types of allegations then you better be able to back them up.

By the way, you were talking about a secret message board. You mean to tell me there are boards worser than GWoP? Wow! That's all I can say.

Mom said...

I think I'll wait to post my take on all of this right now, but I'll add the following:

I commented on PM's site when she did the numerous questions post. I answered all of them to the best of my ability and knowledge at the time. I was jumped on right away by several posters and PM really did nothing, nor addressed my answers, etc. She (PM) did reply later and I appreciated that. One of the poster who ripped into me apologized and there you have it.

Since then, I have personally emailed PM offering some help and suggestions while she was in CA. I didn't expect to hear from her as I know she is busy. I did ask in a post if she received my email (which exposes some personal info about me, my employer, etc.) and asks for someone to clarify her email address, I got nothing.

Someone did refer me to an earlier post to find the email, but I'm either blind as a bat, or it is not there in those particular posts that I did look at.

At any rate, the whole Fiona GDNNOP comments are just plain strange to me. I know from looking that no one here made any terrible comments on her site. I know we mentioned here that we felt bad for Fiona as everyone was jumping on her, but those comments were made here.

As I said, I'll post more later as far as my own speculation on this topic.

Anonymous said...

Just a Thought,

Maybe someone who lives in PA could comment to this. A report could have been generated and sent to the authorities from a mandated reporter. Each state defines who is a reporter and what areas that abuse can cover. In the state of NY (not my state) knowledge of possible, "financial" abuse must be reported by any one who is deemed a mandated reporter. Isn't Julie an RN? I know in my state nurses(I'm an RN) are designated mandated reporters. Could someone shed some light on the areas of care covered by mandated reporters in the state of PA? I do not think that the link between these minor children and the possible existence of financial vulnerabilities can be denied.

SamanthaNC said...

Hi- I've never posted here before but this is a comment that I posted on Penn Mommy's Blog:

This is a bit off subject but I've seen it mentioned several times and it's really starting to bug me. I am in NO way a J&K supporter- completely the opposite. However I also understand that they aren't evil parents who don't care for their children (as PM has pointed out).

Anyway I'm getting sick of reading how "Alexis is forced to sleep in the basement". It's not some dingy, cold, unfinished dungeon- It's a nice cushy room, with a nice warm bed, just down the stairs from J&K- one floor away (just like the kids who sleep upstairs). If I had a child who woke all the other kids up on a regular basis and we had the option of another sleeping arrangement, I would do the same thing. She's not huddled up on a concrete floor crying herself to sleep. Indeed there are NUMEROUS parenting problems in the household, but I don't think where Alexis sleeps is one of them, nor do I think that J&K are singling her out and treating her like the "red headed step-child". I think this is one gripe we can let go- there are much bigger issues at hand.

ilovemykids response:
Samantha - I disagree - Alexis sleeping along in the basement IS a big deal. The basement has no windows or other exit route and Alexis is only 4 years old. What happens if there is a fire in the kitchen or the hallway and she can't get out or panics because
there is no one to tell assist her.

My response to her and to others (their comments in quotations):
"Sleeping in a basement with one exit is not a choice for a 4 year old. Teaching a child to sleep in their room, on their own is the coice J&K should have made,IMO"

I agree- however I think that the level that they are being picked apart is becoming ridiculous.

"Separating Alexis from the two girl tups is not only dangerous but it is isolating and will create a disconnect between her and her sisters. I wonder if that is Kate's real intention. To let her favorite Hannah and Leah have a special closeness"

Having Alexis sleep seperate from the other girls isn't a wise choice, but I do not believe for a moment that Kate is doing so bc she is trying to isolate her from the other girls. IMO thats absurd.

It has also been mentioned that its dangerous to let the public know that Alexis sleeps alone in the basement bc of crazy intruders and while I agree- I would be VERY suprised with all of the perks and help that the family recieves, if they didn't have a security at night. Penn Mommy, do you know if this is the case?


I agree with everyone that Alexis needs to learn to sleep with her sisters without waking them, there could be a fire, yada yada yada, but my original point was that in my very humble opinion, MY opinion mind you- is that the level of nitpicking going on is unfair. There are indeed a plethera of things that they can be justifiably criticized for, but criticizing everything they do is unfair. I know, I know- they chose to put it out there, they opened themselves up for this blah, blah, blah. My opinion may be irrelevant but no one else seems to have a problem posting theirs and this is mine.

ILOVEMYKIDS response:
Samantha, you find the concern over the safety/life of a child "nitpicking"?

As you might imagine I did NOT appreciate that hateful remark- I respectfully posted back to her, telling her in no uncertain terms not to attack me bc thats what it was. Anyway for some reason Penn Mommy chose not to post my response comment which really bothered me (yes I know it's her blog and her choice, but it bothered me just the same)Anyway I posted all of that to say that yes apparently PM does choose not to post certain comments, if I had name called or been rude I would understand but far more bickering has gone on over there then could possibly be compared to my response to ilovemykids, I don't know if she posts here so if she's "in" with this group, a thousand pardons. . . .

Saint said...

Yes, nurses are among the mandated reporters of child abuse in PA.

I am not sure what you mean by "financial" abuse. Generally, neglect is repeated or prolonged failure to provide life's necessities, adequate medical care, and must endanger the child's life or development.

I am not sure how this would apply to Julie or the Gosselins in real life, because I know nothing about that the situation first-hand. I don't think I've seen anything on TV that constitutes abuse (or I would have reported it!)

Linda said...

Welcome to GDNNOP Samanthanc!

I received a similar verbal flogging when I posted something similar about Alexis's sleeping arrangement at GwoP.

You broke one of their commandments ...

"Thou shall not deviate from the group think."

(p.s. So did fiona!)

nomoredrama said...

Anon:
To answer the question of what is reportable, you have to define abuse in PA. I can tell you that Financial abuse is not a popular one around here because there aren't many child actors.

Here are the definitions of abuse in PA.

CHILD ABUSE & NEGLECT
Child Abuse, as defined by the Child Protective Service Law (23 Pa. C.S., Chapter 63), must involve a child, a perpetrator and an act of abuse:

#


Child is defined as a person under the age of 18.
#


Perpetrator is defined as a person who has committed child abuse AND is:

· A parent of a child,

· A paramour of a child’s parent,

· An individual 14 years of age or older residing in the same home
as the child,

· A person responsible for the child’s welfare.

The types of child abuse are:

Serious Physical Abuse - Any recent act (within the past two years) or failure to act which results in a non-accidental serious physical injury that causes the child severe pain or significantly impairs the child’s functioning temporarily or permanently.

Sexual Abuse or Sexual Exploitation - Any act or failure to act that results in the employment, use, persuasion, inducement, enticement or coercion of a child to engage in or assist any other person to engage in any sexually explicit conduct or any simulation of any explicit conduct for the purpose of producing any visual depiction, including photographing, videotaping, computer depicting or filming, of any sexually explicit conduct; or the rape, sexual assault, involuntary deviate sexual intercourse, aggravated indecent assault, molestation, incest, indecent exposure, prostitution, statutory sexual assault, or other form of sexual exploitation of children.

Serious Mental[emotional] Abuse - Any recent act or failure to act or series of such acts or failures to act that result in a psychological condition, as diagnosed by a physician or licensed psychologist, rendering a child chronically and severely anxious, agitated, depressed, socially withdrawn, or psychotic; or seriously interferes with the child’s ability to accomplish age appropriate developmental and social tasks.

Serious Physical Neglect - A prolonged or repeated lack of supervision or the failure to provide the essentials of life, including adequate medical care, which endangers a child’s life or development or impairs the child’s functioning.

Imminent Risk of Child Abuse – Any recent act or failure to act or series of such acts or failures to act which create an immediately threatening risk of serious physical injury or sexual abuse or exploitation.

Student Abuse is defined as

Any act or acts committed by a school employee involving a student which results in the serious bodily injury or sexual abuse or exploitation of the student. A school employee is defined as a person employed by or under contract with a school.



If a school employee has reasonable cause to suspect that a student is a victim of serious bodily injury or sexual abuse or exploitation by another school employee, he/she shall immediately notify the school administrator of the alleged abuse or injury. If an administrator learns of suspected student abuse from another person, the administrator shall make a report, without screening, directly to law enforcement who notifies the Office of Children & Youth as necessary.

As you can see, none of what is going on in the Gosselin house that we see on Television fits this definition. If the implications of the truth bloggers is that CPS has been called by people other than bloggers, these are serious accusations.

Anonymous said...

Saint, I think the financial element applies when 1 person is defrauding another(usually a more vulnerable individual) of monies that are rightfully theirs. Certainly, the Gosselin's are meeting the kids financial needs at the present(from what is show on TV). But, how is the earned income being invested? The kids are currently providing/earning 80% of the household's income...will their interests be protected in the future? Maybe some believe that the kids are owed nothing for the "work" that they're doing now, I would disagree. Abuse can exist in many forms....

indianprincess said...

Here is some information that a Poster asked about Mandatory Reporters of Child Abuse and Neglect.

Professionals Required to Report
Citation: Cons. Stat. ch. 23, § 6311
[Effective May 29, 2007]

Persons required to report include, but are not limited to:
Licensed physicians, osteopaths, medical examiners, coroners, funeral directors, dentists, optometrists, chiropractors, podiatrists, interns, registered nurses, licensed practical nurses, or hospital personnel engaged in the admission, examination, care, or treatment of persons
Christian Science practitioners or members of the clergy
School administrators, school teachers, school nurses, social services workers, daycare center workers, or any other child care or foster care workers
Mental health professionals
Peace officers or law enforcement officials

Penalties for Failure to Report and False Reporting of Child Abuse and Neglect
Failure to Report
Cons. Stat. Ch. 23, § 6319

A mandatory reporter who willfully fails to report as required commits a misdemeanor of the third degree for the first violation and a misdemeanor of the second degree for a second or subsequent violation.

False Reporting
Cons. Stat. Ch. 18, § 4906

A person who knowingly gives false information to any law enforcement officer with intent to implicate another commits a misdemeanor of the second degree.
A person commits a misdemeanor of the third degree if he or she:
Reports to law enforcement authorities an offense or other incident knowing that it did not occur
Pretends to furnish such authorities with information relating to an offense or incident when he or she knows he or she has no information relating to such offense or incident

This information is all on http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/state/index.cfm?event=stateStatutes.processSearch

Hope this is helpful information.

nomoredrama said...

There is no such thing as financial abuse in the state of PA, anon. The question of whether the children's earnings are protected is one being asked by many. It's important question to ask. However, it is not something CPS in PA would handle at this moment in history.

timetostop said...

I am a lurker and have never commented before. I know this is a little bit off topic, but I am asking everyone on every blog I read to pray for this little boy:

http://draykecrom.blogspot.com/

He is a preemie who is critically ill, in need of a lung transplant, and likely to not make it if he keeps going the way he is.

Please pray for him and his parents through this tough time. Thanks, and I am sorry to bother you.

Anonymous said...

You are a liar, among other things.

IIRC PennMommy was concerned someone may have been impersonating you.

"You" or someone else claiming to be "Fiona" - claimed that all the posts in questions were definitely you.

So maybe someone is impersonating you and that's the person who has sent her the e-mails.

Anonymous said...

I cannot believe I'm commenting. All this drama over some random people with a tv show. Good Lord.

Anyway, PennMommy: One thing I think confuses people is that you are ok with only giving certain bits of information, but then you chastise readers for asking you to elaborate. That's not really fair (although I'm sure you'd reply that it is fair and that you'll give out whatever info you darn well feel like). Please consider that that kind of bait and switch can be frustrating for readers. You give enough information for people to be intrigued and then backhand them for wanting more.

I do feel sorry for the children. Mostly because they will be surfing the internet one day and come across all of these comments and blogs crucifying their parents and their upbringing. The pain they experience will be unimaginable.

Linda said...

Just as an FYI, PM is posting a clarification of her CPS comments.

From what I am reading, PM says that she did call CPS a long time ago (maybe when she was volunteering) based on some private observations.

(For the record, she is still not saying what those private observations were.)

She is also saying that like other families on tv, CPS got hundreds of phone calls. Some were from callers legitimately concerned. Others were from people who were just calling to call.

(BTW, does that mean that CPS has been Gwopped)

++++++++++++++++++

I'm not going to offer my opinion on PMs latest entry yet.

anya said...

timetostop said...
"I am a lurker and have never commented before. I know this is a little bit off topic, but I am asking everyone on every blog I read to pray for this little boy:

http://draykecrom.blogspot.com/"


I am very sorry for everything this sweet little boy and his family are going through. They will be in my thoughts.

Even though the vast majority of us know there are far more important things going on in the world than discussing the Gosselins :-) - a timely reminder never hurts.

Take care.

scarfoot said...

I really am befuddled by PennMommy. I just don't totally understand her. She generally seems to be logical, and reasonable, and then suddenly, she isn't. I have no way of knowing if she is valid, or not. What interests me about her reactions on the blog include her frustration with the "blog war" comments, and her assertions toward this blog. First of all, it is obvious, but this is a blog (short for web log - meaning it's on the web). How do you expect to start a blog about something that is hugely controversial to begin with, and then not expect to have a barrage of questions directed at you? The Gosselins appear to be a very sensitive subject. Secondly, I wonder why certain people star a blog knowing full well that they are only going to tell "part" of something. I'm not saying she needs to tell everything she knows, at all. It just seems odd to me to start something, and then not complete it. There's an expression involving a pot that comes to mind, but isn't appropriate to post. Thirdly, it appears to me that the majority of the people commenting on her blog are anti-Gosselin. As someone who regulary reads this blog (probably more than I should) I just don't see many people from here commenting there. Certainly there are some that do, and do so in a mostly constructive manner. So why the negative "shout out" to GDNNOP? I have also noticed that whenever there is a link posted, on any Gosselin blog, there are comments with names that are extremely familiar from "the other" website. How is it not crazy that they blog hop, but is if Fiona or whoever does? This doesn't mean I condone what Fiona has done on blogs, this just means that she is not, by far, alone.

Now I'm off to leave a comment on the next post about CPS.

scarfoot said...

I apologize for misspelling "start" in my previous post. Whoops!

FIONA said...

Anonymous said...
You are a liar, among other things.

IIRC PennMommy was concerned someone may have been impersonating you.

"You" or someone else claiming to be "Fiona" - claimed that all the posts in questions were definitely you.

So maybe someone is impersonating you and that's the person who has sent her the e-mails.

September 27, 2008 5:17 PM

---
I suppose that is her problem, as I have never emailed PM.

Linda said...

I made an assumption about PMs entry on CPS that I probably shouldn't have ... not because it is unfair to PM, but because it is important information that she should address.

She says in her post that she contacted CPS some time ago based on private observations. I suggested that it was when she was volunteering.

I don't know that to be true and it would be important information to have ...

Did she make her phone call to CPS during the time she was volunteering or after once the show was on the air like so many other viewers did.

===================

Keep in mind that some weeks ago there was a lot of urging at GwoP about calling CPS, IRS, the Governor of Pennsylvania, etc.

According to someone else there was also a lot of the same on the TwoP thread and another forum as well.

Insearchoftherealtruth said...

I for one believe Fiona. I have many times not liked what she has said but have never felt she was lying.

Barbara said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Barbara said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
jax said...

PM said that she talked with Julie about the CPS info. So guess it's not a stretch to assume that Jodi is aware of PM's comments.
I don't understand any of these women.

Anonymous said...

I still don't believe that Pennymommy is even real - could be a complete work of fiction :)

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:57 PM

And not even a good one! It becomes more unbelievable as times goes on.

erin said...

Re: PennMommy saying she has called CPS to report abuse. I think that IF the accusations were found groundless, it is time for the Gosselins to lawyer up. They would know at least one person who make a groundless claim (PennMommy), and if I'm not mistaken it is actionable. PennMommy here admitted she did it.

I don't see abuse on the show but I can't really say what goes on when the cameras are off. I think its pretty shitty, though, to go around making veiled accusations of abuse but saying "I"ll never betray those children" a couple of hours later say "I called CPS." I'm starting to think that no one in this situation can act like a reasonable adult. I'm disappointed in the way Pennmommy has acted, and with how Julie has acted. I don't even know what to think anymore, but I'm half tempted to email J/K and say go to the blog, get the admission and lawyer up.

lurkeyhere said...

Well, I don't know what to think. I really don't feel it's my business to know why PM called CPS. But, I don't think she should have told us about it in the first place. Now, people will speculate all kinds of things.

She could have just explained that she didn't think it was good for the kids to be on the show, because of privacy issues, cameras being there too much, other things that many people agree with. But she, and Julie, gave out little hints that things are worse than we know. So, of course some people told her that if she knew of abuses she should report them. Meaning, in real life where it could do some good. And in private.

If CPS (apparently) doesn't think any of the complaints are actionable, what good does it do to tell everyone about them? People are going to assume things much worse than seeing toddlers on potties.

Linda said...

I for one think that if PM had given out all of the information that she had in the beginning then she wouldn't have the kind of following she does.

Even if untrue, leaking out small pieces of information bit by bit is a way that she can keep people coming back to her blog.

lurkeyhere said...

I'm thinking, if all their "friends" and family are anything like the ones we've heard from, it's probably just as well that J & K have cut them out of their lives.

Anonymous said...

Keep in mind that some weeks ago there was a lot of urging at GwoP about calling CPS, IRS, the Governor of Pennsylvania, etc.

Really? Do you have the posts that those were on? I'm asking because I've never read that there. I may have missed some posts though.

jax said...

Erin upthread mentioned that it may be time for the G's to get an attorney. I agree!
I know next to nothing about the law, but if they decided to end filming because of the harassment then perhaps they could sue for loss of 'potential income'
Seems to me defamation of character and slander would also be worth exploring.

Anonymous said...

Guess it's only ok when SHE makes over-the-top comparisions....

Ummmm, yeah. It's her blog, so she makes the rules. It's really that simple. But it's also safe to say that she - Penn Mommy - knows what she meant when she wrote her statement, even if it came across stronger than she probably meant. However, she doesn't know the poster and doesn't know the poster's intentions so Penn Mommy called her out on it. Nitpick away.

Anonymous said...

With friends and family like Julie and Penn Mommy, who the hell needs enemies?

Penn Mommy is the biggest lying fraud out there.

Kelley said...

Seriously. This is by far the most Wanktastic post I've ever read.

Everyone is so worried about getting their stuff posted on the other's website, lame.

The facts are these:

No one is required to post the comments or reactions of others on their communities or blogs.

But when asked why things aren't posted the most common answer is "I never got the comment" or "I'm not moderating today"

There is no law that I am aware of that states a person must read his/her blog or blog comments on a daily basis.

Anyone can say anything about someone on a blog. This doesn't make the statements fact.

There are people who will always missinterpret the intent of others.

People who have very little going on in their "real world" take everthing on the net very seriously.

Anonymous said...

Keep making excuses for her anonymous at 9:26. We're all going to be laughing so hard when it turns out she's a fake.

nomoredrama said...

I'm pulling over another post from Penn Mommy. Funny, this poster can't come over here and address her concerns. She hasn't responded to the question of "who are you." No one by the name she has chosen has posted over here ever. She could be under a different screen name. I, for one, am sick of all the silly games these people are playing. Below is her comment.

Jhawksgirl1 said...

PM-
I hate to laugh because its not funny but I have been accused of not posting my comment to GDDNOP which is stupid since I wrote it there first and then used the back button to copy/paste it to bring here. Every post I made before got seen but then defending you gets a snub that I never sent it to them. Bull. I have defended people on GDNNOP since the day it opened blogging. I think jumping on you when you tried to apologize was totally bogus.

nomoredrama said...

But when asked why things aren't posted the most common answer is "I never got the comment" or "I'm not moderating today"

FYI, this is said here because it's the truth. If we reject a comment we usually post a little blurb about why it was rejected. EXCEPT in the case of trying to disclose the personal identity of a poster (and a few of those have come through today).

On the whole, we publish about 98.9% of our comments.

nomoredrama said...

ok, third post in a row. Kelley, I just picked out what you said to make a point. I am in no way trying to bash your post. I just wanted to clarify why we say that on occasion.

Anonymous said...

Yes, if you witness any form of abuse a report must be made...it's the job of the authorities to evaluate each situation and make the official decision. We, the public, are the eyes and ears so to speak, but the agencies are the brain (decision makers).

PM, Julie and Jodi are in vastly different situations than most of us as they have actually been in the G's home and interacted with members of the family. I accept that they possess more intimate G. family knowledge than I. Thank you all for making that call. If you witnessed questionable behavior you did the right thing...we have no right to judge you for doing what would be required from all of us if we were in your exact situation. If you truly care about the protection of minors, elderly, disabled or vulnerable individuals you would applaud these efforts too.

Remember it's the authorities(professionals) who evaluate and make the final call.

anya said...

FYI, as of 12:12 a.m. PST, Penn Mommy's blog has been taken down.

jhawksgirl1 said...

I'm pulling over another post from Penn Mommy. Funny, this poster can't come over here and address her concerns.
I am posting to this blog! I'm using open ID.
She hasn't responded to the question of "who are you."
Before I got the AOL account I was posting as Karen.
No one by the name she has chosen has posted over here ever. She could be under a different screen name. I, for one, am sick of all the silly games these people are playing. Below is her comment.
Then stop playing them. You aren't likely to post this but you all lie when you say you post most comments. When you lobbed the accusation at PennMommy, I set out to prove that you would post contrary comments and you didn't post a single one of my negative comments but you did post the ones where I bashed PM under different names. You guys are pathetic and I'm sorry I ever identified with you.

Anonymous said...

This is interesting . . . I just tried to check out Penn Mommy's blog because I had not seen the latest post regarding CPS. When I typed in the address, I got a message from blogger saying the blog has been removed.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps Pennmommy's son has taken a turn for the worse, and she doesn't want to deal with this crap.

I hope he hasn't, but that just may be me.

Tyra said...

Quote:
The fact remains that I am here commenting, and you are here commenting and that, at this point is a fact of life, it would seem. If I post about CPS, it's hopefully in the broader scope of what this show and reality television may be doing to the children involved. That would be my goal, anyway--hopefully I come close.

We can yatter all day and night about the show, about TWoP/GWoP obsessives who might have called CPS; it’s meaningless. Someone with real life knowledge of the family has an obligation to protect their privacy. If a concerned person has a legitimate reason to call CPS, then they should do it. If they’re also a decent, thoughtful person, they shut their mouth about it after that. No hints, no internet teasing to make themselves important.

Quote:
”I don't know Pennmommy's motivation in writing about CPS. The tone (all caps) seems defensive. I think (but do not know) that Pennmommy was defensive because a poster named Fiona kept asking her to detail abuse in the Gosselin household and kept questioning whether CPS was called. I've read enough of Pennmommy's blog to believe that she doesn't want to hurt the kids. In other words, I think that PM was defending herself against an insinuation by Fiona that PM doesn't care about the G. kids because she won't call CPS.”

saint, in the rush to defend herself against a poster on her site, someone who could have simply been ignored, PennMommy trampled on the rights of the Gosselin kids. For me, it’s that simple. It would be nice if PennMommy acknowledged that. It doesn’t seem as if she’s capable of it. Her self interest trumped whatever ‘concern’ she has for the kids.

nomoredrama said...

JHawkgirl,
I'm going to call a spade a spade. You're a liar. You did not submit your comment over here. Why would we not put yours through but put through all of the others? Why would I rip your comment from Penn Mommy's blog and post it here myself if I didn't want it publish.

I'm on to your games.

merryway said...

I didn't seem to have anything to say on this subject. I was never interested in PennyMommy's blog from the first time I saw it. I was looking for a gossip site w/inside information, but her writing was petty from the get-go. The only thing I have to add is if Kate was running a blog while her son was sick in the hospital, she would have been raked.

nomoredrama said...

Ok, I'm going to make a prediction...Penn Mommy is going to lie and say she's been harassed (probably by us) and that is her reason for deleting her blog.

The real truth is probably that she's been caught in so many lies she can't keep up. She outright lied about Fiona emailing her. She lied about CPS. For almost her entire blog she says she has never seen anything reportable in the Gosselin household. Then her last blog entry claims that she's called CPS. Her lies were getting to the point where they could have been actionable by the Gosselins.

I've already been pointed to posts where people are claiming that pro-gosselins were "afraid" of the truth coming out? What "truth" did she have to offer? Stories about yogurt and cows? Even
some Gosselin haters thought her blog was a waste of space.

evileye said...

Why do we all care so much about defending people we don't know? Although I will admit that I'm also at fault right now by commenting. However, I do know that PM's son really has taken a turn for the worse, she's really struggling right now. Just leave her alone. You don't know her or Kate Gosselin so to all sides, please stop reading too much into things in order to justify our own opinions.

I mean as women, why do we do this? Why do we cut each other down? Please don't reply, with 'so and so started it'. Aren't we all adults?Look we are anonymous when we are behind a computer, so it is much easier to spread gossip. However we are all still wives, mothers, friends, and daughters. We all deserve empathy including PM & JK8.

Mom said...

Evileye -

Thanks for your comment. Yes, we are all adults. We are wives, mothers, sisters, friends, daughters, etc. Yes, we all deserve empathy.

We should all be empathetic too. Including PM, Julie and any other poster who has been "not so nice."

I also think if we all look into our own family circles at home - we can see that it's kind of ridiculous to think the following:

[please note I am using 'my family' and the words 'I' and 'my' to relate my point]

How in the world would the sister of my sis-in-law have so much to say about my family? She wouldn't. She, too, lives hours away from my city. I LOVE my sister-in-law who is married to my brother since I was like 5 years old, but I don't share anything intimate about my business with her and I see her all the time. She has showered me with gifts and babysitting time when I had my little one. I love her. I consider her my sister. I hardly know HER sister and siblings.

Is it possible this is why any adult should take what Julie says with a grain of salt?

As far as my take on PM - why are so many adults interested and trusts what one person says about a family when her (PM's)contact with them was several years ago when the tups were babies? All the rest is entirely her opinion and speculation based on what she sees on TV. The end.

My guess is we'll be hearing from some other 'insider' soon and it will start all over again. I'm already seeing it happen.

FIONA said...

NMD,

Yes, she did very much lie about me emailing her, and I appreciate you believing that.

I don't think she deleted her blog, I think DASHBOARD removed it.

My take on CPS, is I think they were called, and I beleive her writing that was what did her in.

JMO.

dotsicle said...

NoMoreDrama said: "..Then her last blog entry claims that she's called CPS..."
No, PM did not say SHE called. She said she knew that there had been calls. I did not see any place where she said SHE personally called.
I hope whatever people did call were those who actually thought they saw a reason to call, and not some looney-tune in another state who called because of something they perceived on a tv show.

dotsicle said...

Yikes! Sorry, NoMoreDrama, I didn't see the post PM made where she admitted to calling CPS. So, if she really did, then why did she say anything about it unless she planned to tell the whole story? Holy cow! I wonder if J&K's managers made her take the blog down.......

Linda said...

Fiona,

I have to say that I"m confused.

Did you think that PM was a fraud

a) from a completely different locale and reciting things that were already said elsewhere?

b) or a mom from E-town who knew the Gs and was just jumping on the gossip bandwagon?

c) or an actual volunteer who was upset and did call CPS?

OR OR

nomoredrama said...

Evileye,
I understand what you are saying and I am sorry that PM's son is going through what he is going through. I wish her and her family the best.

I don't think, however, that having a sick child excuses wrongdoing. I've seen your posts about Kate Gosselin. If one of the Gosselin kids suddenly fell ill and had to go to the hospital, would you no longer find any fault with the show? Would you take back everything you said previously? Would GWoP shut down and stop talking about the family?

You seem like a goodhearted person so I'm sure you would feel empathy and wish the best but it would (likely) not change your opinion on Kate and Jon.

There were major things said yesterday by PM that did not ring true.
*Claims to have posted a comment here that was never sent here.
*Claims to have received emails from Fiona stating that she has an alliance with this site.
*The CPS thing. Either she was lying when she said there was nothing that she saw that was reportable or she was lying when she said she made a report. Either way, she has been dishonest.

Should that not be pointed out? Should it also not be pointed out that we will likely be blamed for the shutdown of her site when it absolutely had nothing to do with us (meaning GDNNOP)?

FIONA said...

Linda,

I do think PM was a volunteer and I do believe she did call CPS.

When she did that, hard to tell. But, yes, she did jump on the gossip bandwagon, and I do think she liked the attention.

Would I have thought a little differently of her blog had it been a closed narrative like Julie's, probably.

I saw no reason for the Q and A...yes, I did partipate.

But to me it was like, "I know stuff so ask"-however she and Julie started elluding to "worse stuff" and that really bothered me...could you tell?

I did push, because you don't throw out something as serious as what was elluded to, and now confirmed by PM to be true and not expect it to spark concern.

My interest was not in details, but rather did either of these women actually take appropriate actions.

Unlike 3Farmers who never says anything she would take back, the words she uses she never regrets...I do, and I apologized.

It was not an empty apology...I should not have used the remark to PM that I did.

The rest of my post I truly believed.

And for the record, I think all the blogging has caused more harm than good. There are alot of very self-righteous sounding people around.

I just want to try and tone it down a bit.

Anonymous said...

PennMommy's son had a stroke. She and her son need prayers, not accusations.

Anonymous said...

9:33 pm - and what will you be doing when she turns out to be real? Admiting you were wrong? Of course not, you'll just be looking for something else to find fault with, just like the GWoPs do with the Gosselins. You have more in common with GWoPs then you like to think. Just because the subjects are different doesn't mean the actions are not the same.

FIONA said...

That is very sad about her son. Very sad! I wish him all the best.

However, her son's health and her accusations about many calls to CPS have nothing in common or are related.

It does not take away any of her words.

She made her bed and her son has nothing to do with it.

evileye said...

This will be my last post ever on any of these sites.

Nomoredrama:
If JK8 ever had any serious illness or tragic conditon, I would definitely be empathetic to them. If they needed to raise money for a life-threatening condition I would help them.

I started reading GWOP, and all blog there after for entertainment value thru a stressful time. Look, I am not sure how everything got out of hand with JK8, GWOP, PM, and this site. I admit to saying snarky things about Kate Gosselin. I really don't like the personality she exudes on tv. However, I have never wished any ill will to her or her family, or for her children to be taken away.

(That being said I am not accusing anyone of wishing ill to PM or JK8. I don't want to instigate an argument with posters, I am just stating my POV.)

I have expressed to GWOP concern when certain topics went off course. There is a fine line. When posters at GWOP discuss the Gosselins some people have been offended by the messages. Then another blog starts ... The same people who were offended by GWOP now start particpating in the same kind of discussion that they were offended by on GWOP.

This is a no win situation. I don't care to be right in my own convictions anymore. I am sitting next to my boyfriend, and he thinks this is totally nuts. I think we have all gotten a little too invested in this situation.

That being said believe what you will, but I personally believe that PM's son had a stroke. Why do I believe this? Why would anyone ever lie about that?

My father had a massive stroke in December and suffered another one last month. I just got back from the sub-acute facility (aka nursing home) where he is temporarily staying, I see him almost everyday even though I work 180 miles from where my parents live (not superwoman, just try to work my schedule so I can work from home then drive at nights). PM's son is under 20, and all I can imagine is if the situation was reversed between my father and me... well I just tear up... My father is 72 and I'm 31. He accepts his stroke due to age, but for his child unfathomable (sic.).

Maybe I'm naive, but I believe her and I feel for her. It is not in me to judge her, the same way I realized that I have judged JK. I don't care what anyone has ever done to offend me or someone else, but if they were in need, I would help them. No one deserves any punishment of some sort just because you don't like them.

So no more posting. All the blogs are starting to sound same any way and in the end we are no better than each other. We don't even know these people, and this took up like 3 hours of my day already! It's time to move on. I got my daddy (my best friend and hero) to take care of.

JMHO said...

That is very said about PennMommy. All of this speculation the calling of names, etc., but everyone is fair game. I just have an issue with most of you that are saying the things you are saying are the first ones to say "Jon and Kate" don't deserve to have things like that said about them.

I hate to be cynical but if Julie or PennMommy had written blogs that praised the Gosselins to the high heavens. Most of you would be taking it as Gospel.

Fanny said...

Anonymous said...
9:33 pm - and what will you be doing when she turns out to be real? Admiting you were wrong? Of course not, you'll just be looking for something else to find fault with, just like the GWoPs do with the Gosselins. You have more in common with GWoPs then you like to think. Just because the subjects are different doesn't mean the actions are not the same.



Okay, 1)There have been no ACTIONS. Only words. That in itsself sets us apart from gwop. 2)PM lied. More than once. No one is putting words in her mouth or making something the did out to be more than it was. They were out and out lies.

Maybe, she made it all up. Or, maybe it is truth and she got treated the way she did because she wasn't the saint that she made herself out to be. Either way, you can't start a blog with the sole purpose of calling someone else a liar and then get caught in a lie and still expect to be credible.

Clearly, she was smart enough to figure that out.

WatchOverThem said...

evileye said:

"So no more posting. All the blogs are starting to sound same any way and in the end we are no better than each other. We don't even know these people, and this took up like 3 hours of my day already! It's time to move on. I got my daddy (my best friend and hero) to take care of."

evileye--ditto from me. My anonymous me, as well.

It was a good run, thank you for letting me write here. I do hope regulation in the reality television business will happen to protect the Gosselin kids' best interests, and those to come.

nomoredrama said...

I will say it again...I am very sorry that Penn Mommy's son is sick. Very sorry. I do wish him the best. But, as stated above, that doesn't take away the fact that she lied. Outright. Right here on this blog. I have compassion for her as a human being. I wish her no harm. If she needed help, posters on this site have already offered her help via email.

I gave Penn Mommy the benefit of the doubt up until she outright lied. If someone tells a lie, I'm not going to brush it under the rug. Sorry.

I hate to be cynical but if Julie or PennMommy had written blogs that praised the Gosselins to the high heavens. Most of you would be taking it as Gospel.
I think I'd be terribly bored by a blog that praised the Gosselins to the high heavens. Part of why I don't visit sites like Imperfect Parent. Even if this imaginary scenario came true, what's your point? And your group would be stalking it, posting negative comments and, if the person who ran the blog lied on GWoP, you'd certainly say something.

Every time there is a positive article written about the G's, you and your cronies are right there filling the post up with your talking points.

Unbelievable...

Nina Bell said...

JMHO,

Something I have learned very quickly in this whole process is that I don't take anything that anyone says on the internet as the "Gospel".

Nina Bell said...

Watchoverthem

If you truly feel that way, why don't you remove yourself as a moderator at GWoP?

Anonymous said...

Which lies are we convicting PM of?

Anonymous said...

Why are you all so mad at Penn Mommy, a woman who came forward as a former volunteer to give her thoughts and feelings on the whole G family as she saw it? Did she burst your bubble? Aren't you killing the messenger and ignoring the message? The fact of the matter is these two parents have made their fortune off the backs of their kids. We all know that is true. Some of us think that's not too bad. Some of us think they are flim-flam artists, duping little church ladies out of their pocket money to help the "needy Gosselins" who certainly do not need anything.

In any case, how can you attack other sites when this site is soooo pro Gosselin everything? You acknowledge nothing, not even that they, the parents, are allowing the kids to be photographed and that pervs all over can and are taking advantage of that. Or even could be taking advantage of it. You brush that off as unreal. What world with fairy dust do you live in?

fanny said...

Um, what happened to gwop? Has it been shut down?

Anonymous said...

PennMommy's blog is gone too. What's going on?

Anonymous said...

I just noticed GWoP is now down..anyone know what's going on?? It says that the site violated the Blogger Terms of Service? Interesting that this would happen now after ALL this time..hmm.

I was reading there earlier and Julie had posted saying that she had gotten an email from PM & that her son had taken a very serious turn for the worst. There was also a post on PM's site called "Gone" that referenced how stressed out all this had become for her and that her husband & son asked her to stop blogging; so that combined with how ill her son is is probably the reason her blog is gone, IMO.

Nina Bell said...

Not sure what is happening. Here is the link to Bloggers Terms of Service

http://www.blogger.com/terms.g

Anonymous said...

its funny how everyone always wants someone with inside information to come forward, and then when someone like pennmommy or julie come forward everyone bashes them!

Nina Bell said...

If I wanted inside info I would want it from someone who was actually inside and had valid info.

nomoredrama said...

everyone? I could have gone my whole life without hearing "inside information" about the Gosselins and I'd be no more worse for the wear.

Anonymous said...

Karma is biting GWoP in the ass.

Anonymous said...

ok nina, you say you want someone with valid info, how do you know whether the info is valid or not? why dont you go volunteer for the gosselins. a lot of good was done by my family to the gosselins to be pushed aside for people with more money. or wait, im probably making that up right?

Anonymous said...

That's ok if it is gone, we'll all just start posting over here. Thanks for being so welcoming.

Anonymous said...

i completely agree with what penn mommy said from my own experiences there. everything bad about the gosselins must be a lie though right? they are perfect!

nomoredrama said...

oh you are so welcome....

Because I know you guys are going to be bored while this is happening. I can't wait to see what crazy stuff you come up with. Where is my popcorn?

BEE said...

I saw that both GWop and PennMommys blogs are gone.

I don't know much about the whole blogging world, but I thought that if it was proved that information you posted was false and was harmful to someone that your blog would be removed? Is that correct?

If so, perhaps all of the talk about CPS has shut them both down?

Anonymous said...

Probably Jon and TLC went after the blogs to get rid of them before the big PR push for the book. All is well in Gosselin land and the children love the cameras. They will probably also say Beth didn't want to do the publicity tour. Jon and Kate never lie, they only do what's best for their children, like putting them on national television every week to document their memories, or whatever BS she has said about their family job. Yeah, right.

Nina Bell said...

I said if I wanted and that is a big IF. We have all been wronged in our life at some time. Personally I don't feel retaliation is the way to handle it.

Anonymous said...

nomoredrama,

Actually I think you took my comment the wrong way. You posted several times on PM blog and were allowed to give opinions whether we all agreed with them or not. Did GWOP get out of hand? Probably. But guess what, your attacking a comment I made so how does that make you any different? Shame on you! Guess you guys will be bored because talking about GWOP & PM seems to be the highlights of your conversation.

Anonymous said...

This blog will be next I'm afraid.
What's going on in blog-world?

MCB said...

ulie had posted saying that she had gotten an email from PM & that her son had taken a very serious turn for the worst.

You know, I'm sorry for her little boy, if that's the case, but I have a hard time swallowing how a mother with a gravely ill child has so much time to waste on the Internet. Especially since she spends so much of that time critisizing the parenting job someone else is doing. Hello? Hypocrisy police?

As far as PM and GWoP's sites being pulled because of violations of Blogger policies, I can only say that if it were true, there isn't enough Schadenfreude being served at this table for me to get enough. BWAH! It sounds too good to be true.

nomoredrama said...

Anon....I wasn't talking about you...you aren't moderating so you have no idea how many people are on right now....

MCB said...

If J&K has lawyers on the case, and THAT is why GWoP and PM got their sites taken down, more power to them. Their children's security is at stake. I hope Julie is next. Give her something to really be bitter about.

As far as this site being taken down, there is nothing here that threatens the family, unlike the other places. We post in support of them for the most part (with occasional complaints about the show, not personal attacks on the family). This site is good PR for them. The only way that would change is if the loons DO come here and I hope that if that happens they are HEAVILY monitored (which I believe will be the case). No way does this site turn into a playground for displaced GWoPpers (no matter how hard they try). I don't think anyone here is that naive not to be able to figure out the motive if they do invade here. "Let's get them shut down, too." Nice try in advance, though.

Anonymous said...

mcb, have you ever sat all day in the ICU waiting room waiting for your few minutes of time you can spend with your loved one? It is very boring but you are there because they are in ICU and something bad could happen at any moment and you want to be there. So I don't see what is so awful if someone is sitting there typing on their laptop while they wait all day, even if they are typing about the bad parenting of Kate Gosselin. Oh, but how dare anyone criticize the great Kate for her parenting skills, that she happily puts out there for everyone to see on national tv every week.

nomoredrama said...

LOL, I know MCB. That was my first thought. THey are going to come over here, try to say rude things and then act as if we violated TOS...I second the "nice try in advance" thing.

Anonymous said...

Ha. That was a joke right? This site attacks everyone that goes against them.

Fanny said...

Geez, you all seem so bitter...maybe Julie will open her blog up for comments so you'll have some place to go.....

MCB said...

mcb, have you ever sat all day in the ICU waiting room waiting for your few minutes of time you can spend with your loved one?

Actually, yeah, Anonymous-Foot-in-Mouth, I have. My mom and grandmother during their long bouts with lung cancer which had them in and out of the hospital dozens of times, and my father a few years ago, when he was critically injured in a car accident and spent 8 months straight in a hospital. You know what? The last thing I thought of in my time of "boredom" was posting about a freaking TELEVISION SHOW, criticizing the parenting skills of another person, and feeding ammunition to a bunch of zealots looking to destroy some other person's family. Usually, my internet time was spent Googling "lung cancer" or any of the other medical terms the doctors threw at me. Oh, and then my time was taken up planning funerals, so no, I guess my priorities much have been a bit different. Next stupid question?

nomoredrama said...

Oh they'll find a place...just give them a few hours.

FIONA said...

mcb, have you ever sat all day in the ICU waiting room waiting for your few minutes of time you can spend with your loved one? It is very boring but you are there because they are in ICU and something bad could happen at any moment and you want to be there. So I don't see what is so awful if someone is sitting there typing on their laptop while they wait all day, even if they are typing about the bad parenting of Kate Gosselin. Oh, but how dare anyone criticize the great Kate for her parenting skills, that she happily puts out there for everyone to see on national tv every week.

September 28, 2008 11:58 AM

----
Well yes, I have. The waiting is extremely painful. I wouldn't say boring, because that to me says something like I should be entertaining myself.

I could not even focus on a book...just kept looking at the same page over and over.

Food, I was afraid to leave the waiting room for fear I would miss the docs.

I honestly don't know how PM could even look at her blog while her son was in ICU.

People handle stress differently, I know, but that struck me wrong.

And I hope Julie doesn't open up her blog for comment.

People are bitter, both sides IMO.

And as far as GWoP, as I stated several weeks ago, I thought they started losing ground with things like "comment of the week" which I responded my disdain for.

I also commented when the kids were made fun of, or when kids where diagnosed. Of course those comments did not make it.

They got PP involved and that is a win for all kids.

But with the letter AVASMOM wrote and her linking it to 2 blogs that are now shut down, and the poorly written letter by Lonnyswife's in attempt to sway Bill O'Reilly, I feel more harm has been done than good.

I think GWoP was irresponsible in so many ways.

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous foot-in-mouth" huh? Am I supposed to feel bad for asking you that? I also sat while my father was in ICU for a month and then died. I read magazines in between talking to the doctors, I guess you would think I didn't care. You are the one that is very judgemental of people who don't see things your way.

Kelley said...

When things arent posted....

I'd also like to clarify that I didn't specifically mean here on this Blog. It happens all over the net. And it's totally ok nomoredrama, I didn't feel picked on :)

William Haas said...

My name is William Haas. I'm PM's middle child. And, before you all run to zabasearch to find her, let me say that I carry my biological father's name, not my step-father's. I give you my name because I've read these comments and somehow knowing a name is something you all value.

My mother did not lie. What I saw a great deal of were people assuming the comments on her blog applied to her. Were people confused? That's possible. But, I also think there were many who wanted to dislike her from the beginning. As another of your commenters said, why would she lie? When she said she didn't see anything worthy of calling CPS in a prior post, she was responding to a question asked about the CURRENT STATUS of the Gosselin home. I also believe she clarified that answer by saying there were children who were in more dangerous homes who should receive the attention of CPS BEFORE the Gosselins.

That's all I will say about that. She is my mother and I admit my bias. I have never known my mother to lie.

There are questions about her blog being removed. My father and I suggested she take it down. We didn't ask her to do this because it was a untrue. We asked her to do this because of the stress of this situation with my brother. Also I read a commenter who said she would blame this site for removal. This is absolutely false. She takes responsibility for getting sucked into blogging and frustration causing her to disclose more than she wanted. This blog is not responsible for her blog being removed. It's also a false speculation regarding her breaking Bloggers TOS.

There have been questions about my brother, Jason. He is critically ill. At the moment, he is unconscious and has been so since last night, when he had a stroke. As she posted earlier this month, he had a perforated appendix which resulted in a massive infection. He has been in and out of ICU since that day. Because of his inactivity, he developed a clot in his legs (we believe) which traveled to the brain. About four am this morning, another clot was found in his lungs. He has been in surgery twice over the last twenty-four hours. The best case scenario now is that he will be in ICU for two more weeks. A half-hour ago, the neurologist stated that his brain was deprived of oxygen for an undetermined amount of time and he has suffered brain damage. To what extent we will not know until he comes out of his coma state. He is also partially paralyzed on his right side.

The weight of his diagnosis is devestating. Since he was five years old, he has wanted to attend our father's alma mater. He accomplished this goal two months ago. Even in the best case, he will not be returning for the completion of his freshman year. Please understand that my mom is not only watching her son battle this potentially fatal circumstance: but, we are also watching the death of his dreams.

Thank you for your consideration.

Betty said...

Thank you, William. I'm so sorry for your family and wish your brother the best recovery possible.

Karen said...


You know, I'm sorry for her little boy, if that's the case, but I have a hard time swallowing how a mother with a gravely ill child has so much time to waste on the Internet.

Her "little boy" is 18. Most ICUs limit visiting hours to just a small window per day. Based on your comment, I doubt you understand the difference between an ICU and normal ward. I'm also guessing if she were pro-Gosselin you would be saying how she was nice to keep people updated. Her last entries haven't been about the Gosselins! I think the last five were about her son and his condition. That's different than the picture you give of a woman in a hospital room blogging about a television family.
Especially since she spends so much of that time critisizing the parenting job someone else is doing. Hello? Hypocrisy police?

Hypocrisy police pulling up to your door! Did you read her blog or are you jumping on a bandwagon? PM didn't criticize Jon and Kate's parenting. Her commenters did. PM was clear in posting only about how her experience shaped her opinion regarding their financial situation or help from the community.