Sunday, January 18, 2009

SOUND OFF




Has all the negative publicity coupled with rumor and speculation made you more or less of a J&K fan and why?

127 comments:

Saint said...

Without a doubt: more of a fan.

Too many of the rumors were outright lies. Other facts are offered as proof of something sinister, when they are morally neutral. For example, did the Gosselins get a free side of beef? Well, maybe, maybe not. But so what? It's illogical to insist that trips/goods received in exchange for advertising on a successful show is automatically wrong.

I find the opposition to Jon and Kate is either a reaction to perceiving Kate as "take charge/abrasive," or a resentment that the G's, who once relied on charity, have struck it rich.

To me, there are legitimate concerns about filming children 3 or 4 days a week. Are too many private moments shown? Are the children allowed to leave the filming areas if they are overwhelmed, or want to just go deal with emotions good/bad privately?

Since watching this season more closely and reading the "controversies" online, I have come to believe that if lines were crossed before, these successful TV stars have more control over their filming cinditions now. They have taken steps to give the kids more privacy, and more time away from cameras.

The opposition is sometimes so illogical to me, so clearly a result of envy, so nasty (wishing lice on a child?) that I don't want to be associated with it. I am not speaking of people at this blog, though. Objections raised here haven't always made sense to me, but discussions here have generally been respectful.

Quiltart said...

Definitely More of a fan

Saint just wrote many of the things that I've been thinking.

It makes my blood boil to see the venom which is printed on some of the blogs as fact, when it is most definitely NOT fact.

It makes my blood boil that anytime anyone writes a positive, thoughtful article or blog response,
the same cast of characters (with different names) come right behind spewing their hateful messages.

No one deserves to be treated like this by complete strangers on the Internet. No one deserves to be treated like from anyone!

I don't always like everything on every episode, but I've been a fan from the beginning. One reason I've become more of a fan is that I truly respect the way that the Gosselins have not responded to all of this craziness. There is no way that anyone involved can read these messages and not be hurt.

It's obvious from the more recent episodes that the G's have made an effort to have the kids on camera less and that they have other things set up that do not involve having the kids filmed. I thought this was what the anti folks wanted.. but no... They persist in trying to destroy ANYTHING that the G's do. This is just plain not right.

Some of these non-fans want the G's to return to the lifestyle they had before the show started... when they were poor and struggling. That's just about as unrealistic as the lies that they perpetuate about them... and it's not the way things work. They were granted a chance of a lifetime and they ran with it and made a success. I think that's great! I think that jealousy has a great deal to so with the anger towards them, even though no one wants to admit it.

marci said...

First my vote: I like them more.

Probably because all this discussion made me look a little harder at a show I'd been only casually enjoying before I began blogging last March. I'd ignore the snark for the most part, but some of the comments about how the kids were being affected made me watch more carefully....and come to the conclusion that, though there might have been some awkward parenting and spouse-to-spouse moments, I found the Gosselins to be loving, caring parents. And I liked how "real" they were on camera...found it refreshing.

Thought this was interesting enough to add to the discussion:

Did anyone else watch Tina Fey's acceptace speach at the Golden Globes?

She said (paraphrasing), "If you ever feel like you're getting too full of yourself, there's this thing called the Internet. If you go look there, there are lots of people who don't like you." She proceeded to tell several screen names to, "Suck it."

I thought this was perfect.

And, honestly, I think that's what the Gosselins have done with their own group of mad (tinfoil) hatters (Thanks, Giun!)...they've reached a place in their lives of success and confidence in the path they've chosen, and said, "Suck it!"

What's the old saying?

Success is the best revenge.

Desben said...

I'd have to say I am more of a fan. I don't pay attention to the haters of this family, I just judge for myself.I don't agree with every thing they do but overall I like them. Basically I think most of what negativity is said about them is pure jealousy. I'm interested in seeing how this family interacts and my overall perception is they are a strong family unit. It takes alot of misery within one's self to constantly stir up hate about people (on the other blogs)!

merryway said...

The blogs certainly affected me in the beginning and I let it feed the cynic in me. I had no problem believing that a network would hide “the good life” in order to keep their show going. There were some things that I thought Julie would really know that she wrote about. After realizing how much was being fed by hatred, it certainly turned me around to a defender of Kate's right to parent and to be allowed to succeed. The unachievable bar that society sets up for motherhood is more than a peeve of mine. I don't feel what she's doing is immoral. Whether I think it's the right decision, isn't the point. I want her to have that right. The hate blogs have turned me into a fan of Kate's success and made me admire her more as she succeeds in spite of them. For some reason, I have the need to defend her right to be human on a public blog as well as the fun of talking about the show and other stuff.


:)
Insert qualifying statement here--->
I think there should be some sort of safeguard for the children who would not be so lucky to have parents who didn't have their best interest at heart.
:)

FIONA said...

To me a fan is someone with great admiration. I don't admire Jon and Kate, however the fact that Kate had 6 healthy babies is an astounding feat and I DO admire her resolve in her pregnancy.

I do not hate nor like them particularly. Nor do I resent their success. I have great concern for their children and the road ahead.

It is my opinion that Jon and Kate have not always been truthful with their situation, in the past and that they did scout out what they thought was a means to an end.

They have done quite a job marketing their family and I guess one could give them credit for their tenacity.

They have become a hobby for me in which case I would say I am more interested as the seasons go on, both to see how the children are adapting and the changes most especially in Kate.

I saw the All Smiles epi again last night, and not to beat a dead horse, this particular show bothered me a great deal. Not only the fact that I feel the kids shouldn't be on TV period, but certain things should not be filmed for entertainment purposes.

However, what really struck me was how much Kate has changed. Her reactions to the camera were just incredibly odd to me....can't really explain it better than that.

I don't personally see how the kids are better protected. They are potty trained now, so of course we won't be seeing those scenes anymore, except in reruns. As the kids are getting older I expect to start hearing things like Alexis is having a difficult time reading and Colin and Joel are in speech therapy for major, major, major speech issues. (Not trying to be overly sarcastic, just making my point)

I say this because it seems like Kate has no boundaries with her kids privacy and issues that could very well affect self-esteem.

I get the sense that this type of parenting was something that Kate herself grew up with. She sure is quick to let the zingers fly, with the kids and with Jon.

So I keep watching....like a bad car wreck, it is hard to turn away.

Fan, no. Interested spectator, yea.

FIONA said...

Merryway,

At one time I was a great supporter to Julie, telling the truth about the G's. However, the more she blogged, the PM thing, I came to not believe her at all. I think she has single handedly done alot of damage because she was jealous of Jodi's relationship with Kate.

So basically everything that she told us about, I can see a complete opposite side to it.

Weather Jodi got paid back for the pies or not is between the family and should never have been blogged about. And I really do think their "differences" were about as silly as pie reimbursements!

Saint said...

As the kids are getting older I expect to start hearing things like Alexis is having a difficult time reading and Colin and Joel are in speech therapy for major, major, major speech issues. (Not trying to be overly sarcastic, just making my point)

Please take this rebuttal with all due respect, Fiona. It's this type of comment above that I object to, especially the 'major, major' part. Why would you predict this? I think it is patently unfair. I do have some expertise in these areas, I can say that I haven't even thought they'd qualify for speech therapy at this point. I have read this type of comment at other blogs by people who admit they have no expertise in reading/speech evaluation, but they make these negative comments anyway. I have no way to be certain there will be no language/diction problems. Even if there were reading/speech problems, what point are you trying to make here?

FIONA said...

Saint,

No offense taken. I use that as examples of what I truly would expect to hear from Kate. And the major, major part comes from Kate's own mouth.

Not that these are issues with any of the kids, but whatever comes up, I can certainly imagine Kate dramatizing it just like she did with Mady's need for braces.

In no way am I trying to make a jab at the kids.

Leah said...

Not that these are issues with any of the kids, but whatever comes up, I can certainly imagine Kate dramatizing it just like she did with Mady's need for braces.

I disagree with this. While it's all speculation, I would guess that Mady's been receiving some sort of aid (perhaps therapy?) for her "issues" over the past few years. The Gosselins seem to know what problems Mady has, but all they ever say is vague statements like they're "helping her" or "working on her".

On insignificant issues such as braces (anyone who's seen Mady's mouth knows she'd need work), the Gosselins are very open, and that's a lot of why the show is successful. However, the Gosselins have handled more personal issues (rifts in the family, serious problems within the family) with necessary vagueness and, in my opinion, class.

Saint said...

Thank you, Fiona...I think I misunderstood that comment then.

Saint said...

However, the Gosselins have handled more personal issues (rifts in the family, serious problems within the family) with necessary vagueness and, in my opinion, class.

Thanks for adding that Leah. That's a really good point.

And this comment is an example of why I have come to be more fair-minded of the Gosselins. It's something I hadn't considered before. I started in the Gosselin-blog world looking for an answer to the question "Where's Aunt Jodi?" I assumed that because Julie's was the only story out there, supporterd by Jodi, that the Gosselins' silence was due to shame. I am still inclined to believe a version of the Julie story (yes, after all the evidence against her credibility!) and I do mean version but I don't take the Gosselins' silence as evidence of guilt anymore. It is just as possible that they have a very good defense but they feel like it's not worth the hurt feelings that would result.

indianprincess said...

I think the discussions online are more interesting than the actual show itself. I like reading here and some other crazy sites, articles and have to laugh at some people getting worked up over a family they don't even know. Call it jealousy, envy or whatever drives these people to write what they write. I think I'm more of a supporter of the Gosselins now then I was like back in september.
I enjoy the respectful discussions here I may not agree with some opinions written here but at least, I know we're all different and have difference of opinions where as if you go somewhere else you have to think the same way to be invited in the club :)

Linda said...

I'm not sure that my opinion of J&K has changed that much.

I'm still pretty neutral about them. I find them to have faults like we all do. I also find them to have some good points.

My opinion about the Gs has not really changed, but my feelings and opinions about the anti-G haters has worsened. Their level of hatred ( fueled by innuendo, rumor, speculation, and sometimes out right lies ) are simultaneously troubling and interesting.

Linda said...

BTW Fiona,

I know that you are not a fan and I know it was uncomfortable for you to defend them on the other thread re: how being able to get fast food at the Canyons resort would be impossible because there isn't one there.

I notice that evidence to the contrary of what some anti-Gs believe is never really acknowledged.

You strike me as someone who is concerned about the kids' privacy but you don't see J&K as evil incarnate or conspiring to fleece unsuspecting donors. (Just thought that I'd say that.)

Theresa said...

I agree with Saint and Quiltart, that's exactly how I feel.

This is a family who's parents first priority is their kids. We've seen it and are seeing it every week. I am happy for their success. And, I admire that Jon and Kate ignore the detractors and Internet gossip.

I also think the kids are progressing very well. Jon and Kate are progressing well, too.

Fiona, do you think any of the drama from Kate you're talking about is just Kate's "expressiveness"?


Leah--great points. I think there's a lot they've handled with class.

themrs said...

fiona- you took the words out of my mouth. i pretty much feel the same way you do. well said.

Baby Mama said...

The more I read over at GWOP, the more it just made me feel like high school and the "Mean Girls". The make fun of children, make up lies about Kate, and down right throw Jon under the bus for being the supporting husband he is. One of the posts said "well they don't have a single fan blog out there." Which made me dedicate my time to throw something back in their faces.

I might not always support their decisions 100%, but it made me even more of a fan. This is a real family, that in no way deserves the harsh horrible things that are said about them. And in a way it makes me happy to be a supporter and the "tough" girl in school hoping to scare the bullies away!

jace said...

I admire people who are willing to take a good hard objective look at things rather than believe anything that's being sold as fact as some do. Good job, everyone. When you really think about it, it is pretty obvious who the real sheeple are in the Gosselin blogging world.

I am not exactly a gung-ho fan but I have become a defender of Jon and Kate because my sense of fair play is offended by those who just spread around rumors and hatred about them with no thought for what damage they might do. It is so easy to manipulate people's emotions and opinions that I think we rational folk have an obligation to call them on their irresponsible behavior. Most of it reeks of jealousy and bitterness. And a bit of desperation--it is amazing what they will find to complain about. They have completely lost any sense of credibility about "child advocacy." Most of what they say doesn't even make sense anymore. And picking on the children has cost their last shred of decency.

There is some behavior from both Jon and Kate that I can't defend because I don't agree with it, but I do absolutely defend their right to make decisions about their family without harassment.

I go back and forth thinking that some of the more extreme hate bloggers are a big fat hoax, just somebody who is bored and wants to stir up the masses, or thinking that they need immediate therapy...perhaps also a course in logic and reasoning...maybe a spelling lesson...or an session with Miss Manners...something.

Theresa said...

Right on Baby Mama. Well said!

FIONA said...

Thanks Linda.

Leah, I suppose you could call it "expressivness"-doesn't change the effect.

Kate needs to work on her social and parenting skills if you ask me.

SamanthaNC said...

I first entered the Gosselin blog arena right before Julie and PM popped up. I enjoyed the show a lot but the blogs made it more so because it became more personal for me.

I have gone to bat for them many times, not bc I think they are perfect, ideal or aspire to be like them- but because I think they are often judged much too harshly and unfairly. The outight hatred of them is infuriating to me. I think my first defense of them was on PM's blog when a few posters lost their minds over Alexis sleeping in the basement.

I suppose you can only defend someone so many many times before it starts to become personal to you. Their family "matters" more to me than it did 6 months ago so I guess I am more of a fan.

Bridget said...

The blogosphere has not changed my mind about Jon and Kate. I liked them before, I still like them. And since we met Kate, we like her more because she was very pleasant and was very nice to my daughter. I don't always like the things they do or say on the show, but I'm not a perfect parent either, so who am I to judge?

However, thanks to PM Mommy and the hater sites, I take what I read about Jon and Kate with a grain of salt. I find what is said about Jon and Kate and the children deplorable. If you don't like Jon and Kate, fine. I also think there's a way to comment on your dislike for someone without sounding like a 12 year old bully.

(And I agree with Linda, Fiona, you're not a fan of Jon and Kate, but you express it appropriately, thank you)

I honestly think there are certain persons who are genuinely worried about the kids privacy and work hours. I have no problem with them. It's the people who use that agenda to make fun of the Gosselins or to gain attention for themselves (Ahem 3Farmers and PennMommy).

I watch the show mainly for the kids. They are precious. My daughter and I look forward to Monday nights. And I might like to add that there is no blog that will tell me how to think. When I don't want to watch Jon and Kate anymore, I will turn off the TV. Until then, I will continue to watch.

VOR said...

More a fan than I was - wouldn't take much :)

I never was a fan to begin with. I watched the show a few times with my daughter and future DIL. Then I saw a link somewhere to GWOP. I'm more fascinated by meanness, exaggerations, and fabrications that some people have about the show than the show itself. I don't get it. If you don't like it, don't watch it. If you think more regulations needed for children in reality shows, work with your legislators. How does commenting on appearances, saying mean things about children or even trying to stop activities where the parents are trying to earn money without the kids help anything?

So I guess you can say the opposition has made me more of a fan. I like to watch the show and then see how others twist it into something entirely different than I saw.

Hannah said...

Great question. I'd have to say that all of the speculation has made me think more about the Gosselin situation, and having done so, I am no longer a fan. It has nothing to do with the money and how they spend it, and I am not jealous of the freebies they get. It has more to do with two other issues.
First: I am concerned with how famous the children have become. I don't know if I would go so far as to say that the children are being exploited, but a few things that Jon said in his Utah interview really got me thinking. He admitted that the attention they receive every time they are out in public is intense, and said that is the reason many family and friends have decided to no longer be on the show. This leads me to wonder whether or not it is fair to subject the children to this level of fame, when they have absolutely no choice in the matter. Yes, there are many perks to being famous, but there are also many downfalls. Most child stars, when adults, admit that the transition to child star to adult is very difficult. Many suffer great personal tragedies along the way. I think this transition may be even more difficult for the Gosselin children, because they are not even child actors - what we are watching each week is their real life. Many child stars say they are recognized on a daily basis, even after being out of the public eye for many years. No doubt, this will be the case for the Gosselin children. I can just picture people coming up to them to reminisce about particular episodes - some quite embarrassing. Think about it: when you are a teenager or young adult, would you want strangers coming up to you to discuss intimate details about your childhood, like the potty training episode, or about the time you pooped all over yourself in your crib? I'm sure some of the Gosselin children will handle the situation better than others, depending on their personality. So, yes, the whole fame thing bothers me. Many celebrity parents choose to protect their children from the celebrity world, simply because they have an understanding of how damaging it can be. The most recent cover of US magazine has a photo of Britney Spears, with the caption "What Price Fame?" I think Jon and Kate should be asking themselves this question right now, and seriously considering whether it is fair to force fame upon their children.
Finally, the other issue I have with the show is what I perceive is blatant favoritism of particular children. I tried for a long time to make excuses, or blame it on editing, but in my opinion, it can no longer be denied. I first noticed it when they were airing the episodes where Jon and Kate were taking each of their children out individually, which at first I thought was a great idea. Then, when they both went out on the girls' days, and Kate said she wasn't going on the girls' day, because she didn't want to go "hither, thither, and yon" or something like that (and I think that Jody could not babysit or something, which I found odd, because they had made a point to say that it was important for each child to receive attention from their parents on an individual basis. If it was so important, why wouldn't Kate find another sitter? I'm sure TLC would have provided childcare, considering it was for an episode. It was, in my opinion, obvious that Kate simply did not want to spend time with the boys, who she has called "icky" and "gross" on numerous occasions. Since these episodes, I have been watching more carefully, and indeed it does seem that Kate has not bonded with her sons. Probably the other most blatant example was when they were on vacation, and Kate obviously did want the boys to help make the cake because they are "dirty." She stated that whoever wandered into the kitchen could help make the cake. Some how, all of the girls wandered in to help, and then when one boy came in and asked to help (I can't remember who) she would not allow him. How cruel. I go on and on about the favoritism, but this post has already gone on long enough.

Bridget said...

Hannah, I think your post is another example of someone who is not a fan of the Gosselins, but is not childish or rude about it.
You stated what the issues are, what you don't like, and did not put down the parents or the kids. Thank you for adding intelligently to this discussion :)

SoccerMomof3 said...

I was a fan of the show before I found the blogs on the internet and I would have to say that I am more of a fan because of them. I agree with Saint and Quiltart as well as Baby Mama with their reasons of why they like the show.

But I am also glad to have this site because it makes me think about certain situations in a different light. Hannah you made very good points.

Fiona, please don't take offense, but when you said

Kate needs to work on her social and parenting skills if you ask me.

That kinda rubbed me the wrong way. I understand that you don't care for it, but in Kate's defense I understand where she is coming from (social skills). She has a very dry sense of humor that can really rub people the wrong way, but I get it, but maybe that's because I have a dry sense of humor. As far as parenting skills go...I think that is what's wrong with society today we are quick to judge other parents but their parenting style or skills are clearly working for their children. Versuses other parents who wail (hit I mean) their kids in the middle of Walmart for doing normal things kids do.

By the way...my husband hates the show (but that's because my daughter watches it all the time and talks about it) and he even commented that he liked Kate more in the hour specials than he did now. But I told him for me it was just the opposite. I think she seems more real now because she is seems to be friends of the people behind the cameras therefore her guard is down and you see more of her true self whether that be good or bad.

Denise said...

I am MUCH less of a fan now but it has nothing to do with the blogs or negative stories. Face it, the show has changed drastically.Last week when they showed the original specials; I was astounded at the difference in then and now.
We watched a young couple struggling with all these precious children and now it's a vacation/amusement park/spending spree/spa show. The behavior of the kids is troubling. The spending of the parents is outrageous.
I have decided to try and wean myself away from the show - I feel uneasy with the direction it and the Gosselins are going.
I hope to check in on them as they grow up; the babies will always be in my heart.

Hannah said...

Thanks for the positive feedback Bridget. I just want to add one more thing, and then I'll be quiet(:
Ultimately, the decision to put their kids in the spotlight is the decision of Jon and Kate - I just truly hope that they are considering the consequences they may face later on. I know personally, I would not put my children's tantrums/toilet training, meltdowns etc. etc. on display for millions to discuss. Not only will these be embarrassing for the children, but they might be hard for Jon and Kate to live with eventually, as well. I don't think that the Gosselins are horrible parents: lika all of this, they are doing the best they can, but also like all of us, their parenting skills are not perfect. I am a parent of two, and I can think of many instances that I would not want to be filmed and/or aired for millions to analyze. We all have parenting moments we would like to forget. The problem with the Gosselins, is that their every parenting mistake is put out there - forever. So, not only will they have to relive them, but their children will too. As for the favortism that I discussed in my previous post, I would like to add something. Obviously, none of us can truly know how Kate feels toward any of her children. We can only base our opinions on what we see. Perhaps, TLC has edited episodes to make it seem like Kate shows less affection toward her boys? If not, based on what I have viewed, I think Kate should seek some therapy to explore her feelings toward her children. She would not be the first mother to have this problem - favoritism among children is actually more common than any of us would like to believe, and it happens for many different. I experienced it first hand - I am the youngest of four daughters, and my mother showed obvious favoritism toward her first born. It is extremely difficult to get over the feelings of inadequacy that you suffer as a child. It took me years of therapy to finally deal with my mother's lack of affection toward me. I think that if Kate spoke with somebody about her feelings, they might be able to help her trace the root cause, and it could begin to be addressed. Otherwise, I fear for those boys, because I have lived it, and it is very, very difficult.

Thanks for listening, and administrators, you are doing an excellent job with this blog by allowing different points of view to be discussed, unlike certain sites which will not be named.

bigsis88 said...

I think I am one of the people whose opinion hasn't gotten more positive or more negative over time. I don't watch the show, and haven't seen very many episodes. (I only watched it sometimes this past summer.) I don't hate or love J&K (and I'm not suggesting that everyone here falls into one of those 2 categories), so I think I would say I'm pretty neutral. When I first watched the show, I thought that they could be pretty tacky at times, and I still feel that way now, but I don't think being tacky is a mortal sin.

Agree with OP who said the blogs surrounding the show are more interesting than the show itself. Plus, since I am probably younger than most of the people who watch the show, and I don't have any kids, I don't care how they parent their children. (On a side note, when people say that their "hearts break" for the Gosselin kids or they are "severely distressed" by their "plight" I find that kind of creepy.) This may sound cold, but I really don't care what they do with their kids, given that they aren't abusing them. A lot of people who have less-than ideal parents (and I'm not necessarily saying that J&K are less-than ideal) grow up to be regular people. I don't lose any sleep worrying about the Gosselins.

SamanthaNC said...

The behavior of the kids is troubling. The spending of the parents is outrageous.

Troubling behavior? I haven't seen anything out of the norm for childen- from what we see they are very well behaved on the whole.

Outrageous Spending? Are you referring to the new house in question? A home is an investment and I dont think it can't be referred to as outrageous. Nor do I think the fact that they are on televsision makes the purchase price any of our business.

If you are referring to something else perhap you could enlighten me?

FIONA said...

Fiona, please don't take offense, but when you said

Kate needs to work on her social and parenting skills if you ask me.

That kinda rubbed me the wrong way. I understand that you don't care for it, but in Kate's defense I understand where she is coming from (social skills). She has a very dry sense of humor that can really rub people the wrong way
====

No offense taken. But as you stated Kate does rub people the wrong way, thus my comment.

FIONA said...

Sam,

If you don't mind, I will add a troubling behavior that was well spoken about by the parent's themselves. Alexis throwing up for the past 2 years (about a year or so ago) whenever she got upset. That to me is very troubling. I guess we could claim it to be another exaggeration of Kate's but clearly the kid had a problem of some sort. Now you can tell me that kids do that...I can't think of any that I have known, but my concern was/is the damage to her esophagus from all the stomach acid.

That is one example I can give.

BTW, Hannah, great post.

MoreCowbell said...

I think I'm more of a fan.

I'm contrary. If someone tries to pound something into my brain too much, it tends to have the opposite effect. Overkill. I started out reading TWoP's Gosselin thread and found that it tended to go overboard on the Gosselin criticism. I was never a hater, but I like some good snark now and then. However, the thread went beyond snark (which is why it was shut down and "cleaned up" so often before being shut down for good). Then, I started reading read GWoP thinking it would be mnore like TWoP. Harmless snark. I slowly began to realize that some of them were serious and completely over the edge. The whole Julie saga turned my stomach. Pumping a (sort of) family member for dirt, and that family member enjoying the attention? Then there was the posting of family member's private information. Family members that did not appear on the show, like Jon's mother. Posting photos of their homes. Let's not even get into calling the kid's names.

The day they posted a link to this blog (whining about it, of course, as in "how DARE anyone question US") I came here and never looked back. Their actions and motives have had the opposite effect that they intended. It made me MORE of a fan of the show.

Golf clap. Thanks GWoP!

NotAPerfectMom said...

My opinion of the show Jon and Kate Plus 8 is separate from my interest in the blogs and the drama that follows them. I have always been interested in blog/message board drama, I guess for the same reasons I enjoy reality tv: the crazy is fun to watch. I recognize that this could, perhaps be one of my baser instincts, but that is irrelevant to this discussion.

As for the show, I'm not a fan nor do I "dislike" the parents in the family. My perspective is that Kate and Jon have a right to parent their children independent of my opinion or anyone else's (unless specific, abusive lines are crossed, obviously). I wouldn't even judge the parenting of people I know in real life as harshly as these parents are judged. There is simply no excuse for the intrusive, (and, in my opinion, stalkerish) behavior of some viewers of this program. These kids are NOT YOURS. They are NOT your responsibility! Yes, it takes a village, but no watcher is a part of the Gosselin's village! To me, that is a "duh".

I teach school. I see kids with home situations that break my heart. I do what I can to help and provide stability. But even then, when I am arguably a part of these kids' "village", I don't have the basic right to tell their parents how to parent.

Kate is abrasive and unlikeable at times. So what?! It makes her fun to watch. Her kids will grow and thrive, or they won't, although I suspect the former. Reality tv and kids is a brand new world and the Gosselin kids will always be guinea pigs in that regard.

I've never really understood the uproar over the potty scenes, etc, either. If we all lived our lives in fear of pedophiles, then the pedophiles have won! (/sarcasm) The fact that some bloggers would condemn me as a mom and a teacher based on that opinion and with no other facts, is disturbing.

ilovehaters said...

NotAPerfectMom,

I have to disagree with you when it comes to pedophiles. It is a parents job to protect your children against them. You must know where they live and not encourage any kind of behavior that excites them. Showing potty scenes on television is not a good idea at all. Especially when the children have an address that can be found. There are pedophiles out there, that watch this show just to see the children, naked or half dressed. I know that it's sounds sick to hear that, but that's how pedophiles are. Jon and Kate should really try to avoid, any kind of scenes that don't have the children fully dressed. Pedophiles should be feared. That doesn't mean that they have won. They are a VERY sick group of people.

I have worked many, many years with pedophiles. The things that I have learned from them, would make you sick to your stomach. Please parents, protect your children. You can find pedophiles in your area by your zip code.

Linda said...

Ilovehaters -

If you've worked with pedophiles for any length of time then you know that they are able to conduct themselves with very little conscience because they dehumanize their victims.

They do not see their victims as having feelings, opinions, beliefs, etc. They see their victims as a means to an end.

To that end, the fact that "that site" (and we all know what site I am referring to) allows such disgusting and vile comments about innocent kids makes these little children MORE vulnerable if you follow your line of thinking.

So, Ilovehaters, if you are really so darn concerned about the potential for abuse that you perceive to exist out there on the internet .... you need to look no further than the site that you regularly frequent... and you should be denouncingthem as equally as you so vociferously denounce their parents.

Calling a child names is the first step to dehumanizing them. Therefore, making them prime targets for abuse.

So until you call out the bullies on the other site for their abusiveness to innocent kids masquerading as advocacy your feigned concern is nothing more than an elaborate ruse.

NotAPerfectMom said...

My little ones (3 and under) have always gone topless at the beach and sometimes in the sprinkler. I guess I just don't think about pedophiles in my daily life, and I don't want to! I know I have to protect my kids, but I don't want to live in fear and restrict our freedoms because sickos exist. Obviously, every parent has a right to make their own judgements in this arena, including Kate and Jon. And myself. As my name suggests, I am sure I am not a perfect mom.... but I do what I think is best for me and mine.

BEE said...

More of a fan, without a doubt!

BGR said...

I think that I am definitely less of a fan than I was originally but it is not the result of any blog. When I watch an episode, I feel guilt about invading the childrens' lives. It is almost voyeuristic. There is no doubt that the children (all of them) are adorable but I do not feel it is fair for them to be used for our entertainment by their parents or anyone else. The only thing I would add to what has been already written by Fiona is that as the Gosslins go about their "life" in front of the cameras it seems that the parents are conscious of giving the cameras something to film and, in the process, possibly giving up the opportunity of personal, intimate experiences with the children. I know that these could happen behind the scenes but any lost opportunity with 8 children is just that -- lost. I don't really care about the fact that Jon and Kate make mistakes. I do care that their mistakes are preserved into perpetuity and that the children will never get away from it.

Theresa said...

Fiona, I believe you're talking about Leah making herself throw up. They talked about it on the Memorial Day episode when they were dropping off the kids at the church daycare. Kate said Leah got into the habit of doing that to get their attention. As with any of the kids' "problems" (if any) perhaps they are treated off camera? We didn't know about it until we were told because we don't live it.

Notaperfectmom--I really liked your posts. You're second one is how we did it with our young ones ,too in the summertime.

Hannah--I don't agree on the favoritsm. I think that is from the editing process. Sometimes it shows what could be perceived as favoritism. Remember, we don't see all of their lives. Just a snippet of what we're shown from TLC editors. I am sorry that you experienced that in your life. I'm sure you have learned a lot from it, as you seem like a thoughtful person.

Linda--you're right on to ilovehaters. And to go one step further regarding that other site. If any of those awful things they claim to happen in the Gosselin household go on(which I don't beleive), don't you think we would've known because they would've shut the show down because the feds came in?

Anya said...

Fiona said...If you don't mind, I will add a troubling behavior that was well spoken about by the parent's themselves. Alexis throwing up for the past 2 years (about a year or so ago) whenever she got upset. That to me is very troubling.

Fiona, not to nit-pick, but the child you are speaking was Leah, not Alexis. The only reason I point this out is because one of my *big* issues with the main hate site and the mini-hate sites (not even going to call them out by name) is they so often get the facts wrong. They then take this one fact (that they have gotten wrong) and form baseless dire conjecture on it.

Example: Alexis is made to sleep in the basement and has become so upset that she throws up everyday!

Fiona, I know your heart is in the right place and were only concerned about the effect on her body, but when the issue with Leah came out, the following FACTS were established to my satisfaction:

-The condition is more common than I might have thought (based on the number of people who chimed in and knew a child that did/does this)

-Sextuplets use various coping mechanisms in order to get the attention they need. This was Leah's way for a period of time.

The following is speculation on my part, but I have no doubt that it is true: Leah was evaluated by a doctor to rule out any medical issues.

Anya said...

NotAPerfectMom said...My perspective is that Kate and Jon have a right to parent their children independent of my opinion or anyone else's (unless specific, abusive lines are crossed, obviously). I wouldn't even judge the parenting of people I know in real life as harshly as these parents are judged. There is simply no excuse for the intrusive, (and, in my opinion, stalkerish) behavior of some viewers of this program. These kids are NOT YOURS. They are NOT your responsibility! Yes, it takes a village, but no watcher is a part of the Gosselin's village! To me, that is a "duh".

I agree with a lot that has been said by others, but I have to single out this statement as one of the *main* reasons I feel as strongly as I do that J&K have been unfairly maligned and judged.

If certain people can't understand that watching the Gosselin children on a reality t.v. show does not give you the right to decide what is best for them and/or to interfere in their lives or their parents lives, than I strongly suggest they turn the t.v. off and get themselves quickly to a mental health professional.

ilovehaters said...

Linda,

For your information, I don't visit the other site.

I was just trying to get a point across, that pedophiles are every where.

What was your point?

Anya said...

Oh, and if it wasn't clear, MORE of a fan. :-)

And as is the the case with MoreCowbell: my thanks to GWoP and other assorted mini-hate sites! I couldn't have done it without you.

Linda said...

Ilovehaters -

How can I say this delicately ... er um, nice try.

One only need to google your screen name and Gosselins and it shows that you've posted "there."

Anya said...

Baby Mama said...One of the posts said "well they don't have a single fan blog out there." Which made me dedicate my time to throw something back in their faces.

I might not always support their decisions 100%, but it made me even more of a fan. This is a real family, that in no way deserves the harsh horrible things that are said about them. And in a way it makes me happy to be a supporter and the "tough" girl in school hoping to scare the bullies away!


That's how I see your role too, Baby Mama. I love your take no crap attitude and your passionate defense of the Gosselins. I know it's no easy feat and you do it on your own turf every day. Your perspective is appreciated!
:-)

ilovehaters said...

NotaPerfectMom,

I never said that I didn't disagree with Kate and Jon,
putting their kids on TV half-naked, I was just letting you know what "kind" of people are out there. Sure we all should enjoy life out there, but always be on your guard. I don't mean paranoid, just be aware of your surroundings.
That's just plain common sense.

NotAPerfectMom said...

Thanks, Theresa and Anya.

Didn't I hear Kate say on a recent program that Leah throwing up was part of a larger digestive issue due to the premature birth? I don't remember the specifics, but I noted it at the time because I remembered the mini-gate that ensued about the throwing up thing. The bottom line was, she was an easy vomiter. (I can't believe I just wrote such a thing.)

NotAPerfectMom said...

Thanks, ilovehaters. I"ll consider myself warned.

Linda said...

BTW Ilovehaters -

Nice screen name.

ilovehaters said...

My major concern are the children. I have always cared about the children.
_________________________

I really wonder if Kate could be "one" of us.

ilovehaters said...

OK. I did some research and see you are talking about gwop. I have never posted on that site. If you can find one of my posts, please let me know. Someone is using my name.

ilovehaters said...

Linda,

My screen name, has to do with the type of work I do. It has nothing to do with the Gosselins. I don't hate the Gosselins.

rain88 said...

I'm not any more or less a fan because of the negative publicity. I don't take the extreme opinions all that seriously. I'm sure every family that has public exposure has to sit their kids down to explain the negative things being said about them and Jon and Kate will talk to their kids about this when it's feasible they might be exposed to it. Since Kate and Jon don't listen and don't care, I'm sure they'll instill this same philosophy in their own children.

Linda said...

Ilovehaters -

Still skeptical.

I saw your profile while perusing the filth at the other site months and as recently as weeks ago.

Soooooooooo -- if someone's using your screen name then they've been using it for some time.

NRS said...

how being able to get fast food at the Canyons resort would be impossible because there isn't one there.

There may not be a Mc Donald's located on the resort itself, but the Park City location is within 3 miles. I don't think it's too outrageous to think that lunch was brought in for the children. At least not as outrageous as some of "reasons" why Jon or Kate are not being untruthful about their kids never eating "fast food".JMO.

ilovehaters said...

Linda,

I am being very honest about not posting at gwop. This is the only blog that I post at. This is very strange to me. I'm hoping you can find the comment posted by someone using my name. Belive me please, I have NEVER posted at gwop, and I wouldn't ever in the future.

lulubae said...

Linda said:

My opinion about the Gs has not really changed, but my feelings and opinions about the anti-G haters has worsened. Their level of hatred ( fueled by innuendo, rumor, speculation, and sometimes out right lies ) are simultaneously troubling and interesting.


My sentiments exactly.

I'm not their number one fan. In fact I usually end up catching the show on reruns cause I watch something else in their regular time slot. But that said, I haven't stopped watching them.

Of course, there are things they say/do I don't necessarily agree with but I don't believe them to be these Machiavellian people that "others" make them out to be. I believe that they are really putting themselves out there in a vulnerable position, something I would NEVER EVER dream of doing myself. But I don't think they are doing the world a great disservice by being on tv. I leave that to the skanks of Rock of Love (and hey, I watch them sometimes too!)

bigsis88 said...

Linda and ilovehaters,

Not to butt into the discussion/argument/whatever, but maybe Linda has read the screenname "ilovehaters" on a post where the person signed using the "Name/URL" option? Since anyone can write anything there anytime, there could be an "ilovehaters" with a Blogger profile (you in blue type) and another "ilovehaters" (in black type). Plus there are probably variations; "iluvhaters" and the like. Personally, I wouldn't bother Googling someone's screenname to see everywhere they've ever posted and "call them out on it." Isn't that the same thing people see as "creepy" when it's done to people associated with the Gosselins? (I agree with the creepiness, btw.)

Theresa said...

NotAPerfectMom said...

Didn't I hear Kate say on a recent program that Leah throwing up was part of a larger digestive issue due to the premature birth? I don't remember the specifics, but I noted it at the time because I remembered the mini-gate that ensued about the throwing up thing. The bottom line was, she was an easy vomiter. (I can't believe I just wrote such a thing.)

January 18, 2009 7:10 PM

_______________________

Yes, that was on that show. And yes, you just wrote such a thing. :)

Jenn said...

I was a fan before and still am. I have to admit that when I first starting reading stuff about the gosselins that I got sucked into the drama of it all. For a brief time I believe all the drama and then the PM thing happened. That whole incident really opened up my eyes and showed me how anyone can say anything but it doesn't make it true. I don't know why so many people seem to be out to get them. I do have to say that I've noticed changes on the show and I think they are positive changes.

Jenn said...

i saw the exchange between Ilovehaters and Linda. I did find this:

http://gosselinswithoutpity.blogspot.com/2008/11/gosselins-and-discipline.html?showComment=1226968380000

ilovehaters said...
I can tell you why Mady acts the way that she does. It's because she is just like Kate. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Can some one please tell me why it's called sixgosselins.com and not eightgosselins? After all, there are eight children. Why do Jon and Kate leave out Mady and Cara?

ilovehaters said...

Jenn,

I didn't post that. I would never write something like that.

I guess I need to change my name.

merryway said...

Ilovehaters, uhm, you did say that, on this site and GWOP within a few minutes of each other. I remember because I saw you over there and was part of the conversation over here.

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=875099505545555742&postID=8941481132031610563

ilovehaters said...

Bigsis88,

Thank you very much for your comment.

Like I said, I have never posted on gwop, and what you said makes sense.

I do find what Linda did, "creepy."
Why would someone do that?

merryway said...

I do find what Linda did, "creepy."
Why would someone do that?



BTW what Linda did was not creepy at all. After working around pedophiles, you would find Linda googling your screen name creepy? That's quite an odd benchmark for a swat-team officer.

With all the accomplishments and roles you've listed as hostage negotiator, swat team member, expert profiler, etc. that you've mentioned; this question shouldn't be that hard for you to answer.

So tell me officer, would you believe someone who so conveniently forgets where and what they post.

Nancy said...

I'm way less of a fan than I was in the beginning, but it has nothing to do with blogs. It feels to me that the show has changed from being about an ordinary family with a lot of kids to a show about rich people taking trips and getting freebies. I still enjoy seeing the kids.... but the parents and lifestyle, not so much. Do I think the kids are exploited? Yes, to a degree. Is there anything I can or should do about it? Heck no. As for blogs... although I am not a fan of Kate, I have been kicked off a blog for writing something NICE about her, so go figure.

Linda said...

ilovehaters -

Give it a rest.

Rachel107 said...

I have actually stopped watching the show since stumbling upon GWoP, and then indirectly, this site. But I don't think the sites themselves had much influence on my decision. I just found that I didn't enjoy watching the show anymore. To be honest, the way Kate treats Jon and her children makes me very uncomfortable, and whether it's editing or the way things really are, I just got sick of it. I am still curious as to what is going on in the Gosselin blog-world, but the show just does not interest me anymore. I think I was leaning that way when I learned about the website, and some of the things I read supported my opinion of the family. Now I know that most of the things that have been said on "that site" are conjecture and speculation at best, and are fueled by some morbid fascination with seeing Kate (and Jon to a lesser extent) fall flat on their faces. But when I did watch the show, I felt as if the whole story wasn't being told, and something was being held back. In their defense, Jon & Kate have every right to decide what and what not to tell the public; we don't have any entitlement to their private lives, financial or otherwise. But it generally rubs me the wrong way because I feel they are portraying an image of their family that isn't necessarily the truth, and that's not something I want to watch.

Hope I didn't ramble too much!

FIONA said...

Anya,
You are right it was Leah-my bad. But I seriously chuckle that you think she was evaluated medically for her throwing up. Doubt it, doubt it, doubt it. Remember Kate's remedy was that the offending kid had to wear their vomit on their clothes the rest of the day. Coping mechanism....yea they are trying to cope, I will give you that.

FIONA said...

Didn't I hear Kate say on a recent program that Leah throwing up was part of a larger digestive issue due to the premature birth? I don't remember the specifics, but I noted it at the time because I remembered the mini-gate that ensued about the throwing up thing. The bottom line was, she was an easy vomiter. (I can't believe I just wrote such a thing.)

January 18, 2009 7:10 PM
_______________________

Yes, that was on that show. And yes, you just wrote such a thing. :)
====
Never, ever have I heard them say this.

Jenn said...

ilovehaters,

guess your google account has been "hacked" then because the comments at gwop have your google ID attached to them. in other words, i can click on your name and google profile comes up.

Anya said...

Rachel107, I just wanted to say I think you expressed your reservations very well and I think you made the correct decision to stop watching since you were not finding enjoyment out of the show and actually had some problems with what you were seeing. I totally not only *get* that, but respect your decision. Hope you will still continue to post, however.

Fiona, I think we will have to agree to disagree regarding whether or not Leah was taken to the doctor. Obviously, neither of us can know for sure. To me, only a very irresponsible parent would not see a doctor about this. I *think* (yes, totally just my opinion) that Kate felt comfortable telling Leah she would wear the shirt all day if she threw up because she was satisfied at that point that Leah was in the clear medically and she was dealing with a child who *could* control this impulse.

Guinevere said...

I think I've become more of a fan, though I have liked the Gosselins since the beginning. But I think seeing all of the criticism they get - so much of it patently unfair, IMO - makes me more sympathetic to them and apt to try to understand their flaws.

In fact, I think the "controversy" has made me a better, less judgmental person in general. People who I would perhaps have in the past had more negative judgment about, like the Duggars - now I try to accept them as they are. Yes, their way of life is not what I'd choose, and I don't approve of everything they do, but are they basically decent people? I think so. Is their behavior hurting anyone? Not really. So what is there to judge? At the very least, I can say, it's not worth it to be angry at them or be bothered by how they choose to live their lives.

I am working on having a more "live and let live" attitude towards the haters. I think the thing is that many of them are SO ANGRY, such angry people, and being around angry people tends to make one angry oneself. So I have to remind myself to view their shenanigans with detachment and not let their obvious unhappiness affect me. (I'm speaking here of actual Gosselin haters, not people who have legitimate issues with the show or the Gosselins.)

It's Me said...

I think the criticism is unfair too. The haters really pick at nothing at all and try to make it into something.

I love how, despite what the haters try to do or what they think and say, J&K is more popular than ever. Their show continues to be TLC's highest rated.

For a group of people who claim to hate the show and never watch it, they sure as heck know more about the episodes than I do. And I watch it every week. lol

They must sit there and play it on slow-mo as to not miss anything. I think they secretly like the show. They just need something to complain about. They won't know what to do with themselves when the show ends.

These people obviously don't have a sense of humor. Every time Jon or Kate joke on the show or make a comment to or about one of the kids in a loving joking way, the haters try and make it into something more than it is.

I'd sure hate to have the haters as parents. Can you imagine how boring their households must be? No joking. No laughing. Serious all the time. Complaining all the time that they have to work and that they don't get things for free. Complaining that they never get vacations like J&K. Who wants parents like that? No thanks!!! You can have them!

Too Funny said...

Hahahaha! Just have to post this here because the haters won't let it through on their site. At least they didn't the last I checked.

Anyway, someone there said:

"I wonder what Martha Stewart would think of so many people boycotting Kmart because of Kate Gosselin. Martha has a lot of products in that store and I am certain she would not be happy to know of the controversy surrounding Kate being asked to advertise the layaway feature. If Martha speaks up"

I commented back something like this:

"LMAO! Yeah. Like Ms. Jailbird herself has a right to say anything. Who cares what Martha thinks. You all condemn Kate and she isn't even a criminal like Martha. Who pretty much got caught stealing money! Hmmm, kinda like you all accuse Kate of doing. Only difference is, Martha WAS guilty!

You think someone like Martha is a good role model? Who is she to be concerned and angry about Kate being a spokesperson for Kmart? LMAO! If anything, you all should be worried about Martha. LOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I realize some of you here may like Martha. But, I just couldn't let that go. lololol

Theresa said...

Jenn said...
ilovehaters,

guess your google account has been "hacked" then because the comments at gwop have your google ID attached to them. in other words, i can click on your name and google profile comes up.

January 19, 2009 9:23 AM
__________________________
Yikes I hope you answer the phones at the SWAT team, and not on the field...

FIONA said...

Fiona, I think we will have to agree to disagree regarding whether or not Leah was taken to the doctor. Obviously, neither of us can know for sure. To me, only a very irresponsible parent would not see a doctor about this. I *think* (yes, totally just my opinion) that Kate felt comfortable telling Leah she would wear the shirt all day if she threw up because she was satisfied at that point that Leah was in the clear medically and she was dealing with a child who *could* control this impulse.

January 19, 2009 9:48 AM

====

We are talking about a 2 and 3 year old if we are to give Kate the benefit of the doubt that Leah really has been doing this for 2 such years. You are right, neither of us know if Kate took her to a doctor. You call throwing up an impulse she can control. Throwing up is very unpleasant. Leah had to first be so upset that she was crying uncontrollably, and then realize she didn't want to throw up! I don't think so. I think somehow Jon and Kate figured out whatever they were doing that was upsetting Leah so much and perhaps they stopped. Maybe Jon alluded to that in his interview-"they were gone so much from the kids and that wasn't what they wanted"....ok, back to best interests of the kids and parent's making the children a priority...This went on for 2 years! Clearly the kids separation anxiety was not being dealt with for a long, long time.

The kids have clearly paid a price for the fame of the family.

Nina Bell said...

bigsis88

Not creepy at all. Just good common sense when you are dealing with the blogging world of 2009.

Anya said...

Too Funny:

I don't have *strong* feelings one way or another about Martha, but your point is a solid one. K-Mart has continued their relationship with Martha Stewart because clearly their marketing analysis has demonstrated that it is beneficial to them (+ sales). There are plenty of people who like Martha and plenty of people who can't stand her. What is most important to K-Mart is whether she brings increased revenue to the store.

K-Mart will use the same strategy regarding bringing Kate back after careful research and analysis of their marketing data. A hundred or so emails either positive or negative is not going to decide the matter for them. And controversy isn't always a bad thing.

Anyone with actual marketing experience willing to back me up on this one?

nomoredrama said...

For me, I don't think it's done either. I started out as a fan wanting more info...then when I heard what I did I wanted to know more and figure out if it was true.

My conclusion is that some of the stuff is true and some isn't but the truth of the allegations has become less and less important to me.

What is most striking to me is the people behind the blogging. I am dumbfounded by the amount of time and energy that is spent on discrediting other bloggers. It amazes me that people are personally attacked based on their view of the Gosselins and reality TV in general.

Strangely enough, I think the Gosselin blogosphere is microcosm of our country as a whole. Maybe my thoughts lean this way because this is an election year but when you read news stories about people trampling a man to death on black friday (for 2 dollar DVDs) or a teen killing himself live on the internet it makes me ask "What have we become as a nation, a society?"

Equally as frustrating to me is the fact that the majority of Gosselin bloggers are women. Why do we, as women, compare ourselves to others or try to bring people down because they don't share our values? Are we so insecure as females that we need to prop ourselves up on the faces of those we step on?

I could probably write a book on all of the thoughts that run through my head on a daily basis but I'll try to summarize:

Jon and Kate, regardless of whether or not you agree with the television show, have taken a opportunity to rise above poverty and create a future for their family. To those who have chosen to hate them, I ask "what have you done lately to better yourself?" Instead of wishing the demise of a successful family and carrying high the banner of injustice because someone has more than you--do something about your situation. If you are comfortable and content where you are, great! If not, how are you going to fix it? You're not self-righteous because you do nothing and no one ever said it was going to be easy...just..possible.

*climbs down off of soap box*

Linda said...

I'll admit that I'm fascinated by those who would spend so much time and energy blogging about strangers (be they the Gs or those who don't support the GWOP agenda).

It really does give a glimpse into the garbage in some of their psyches'.

mommy in nh said...

Hi
I am a long time lurker but first time poster.This semi relates to the negativity J&K receive. I also read at a quints mom's blog. She posted a link to another set of quints just born in the same town.

I went to there site to check it out and I was surprised to see their wish list under how you can help washers,dryers, Ford expedition, nanny among other things. They also have 2 registrys posted.

However, I was just as surprised to see the posts on one of the media links they had. Someone had looked up there house value( 700,000)and alot of the posts looked similar to "other" sites.Talking about freebies etc.

Where as I was suprised to see some of things they asked for my first thougt was certainly not to look up there house value or any other personal info.

I was shocked at the similarities I saw and I guess I was wondering what others thought about giving and asking for things when expecting multiples. I am not in a postion to give nor would I ( I would prefer to give to other charites near and dear to me) I don't feel just because these people are asking for help it opens the door for people to spew hate about them.

I guess what I was wondering what ohters thought. ( The site is JonesLife.net for those who are interested)

indianprincess said...

mommyinnh: I don't see a problem with other families including the Gosselin's asking for things that they need when babies are born and there after. People ask when you have one baby what you need so that's why you make a baby registry or have a baby shower. People don't know unless you make a list of things that are needed. I made this mistake not making a list for my first child and I got multiple stuff of the same thing. I got 4 diaper genies. So ladies make a baby registry!!!

Jen said...

Sadly, less of a fan. I was the biggest Jon and Kate fan last Fall (2007) and started to feel like something wasn't right about the show. But I don't think that these things exist in a vacuum. It isn't like someone is making up some of the things that are clearly evident in the show (factual stuff like what they charge for pictures of their kids) etc.

I'm just pretty sad about the direction all of this is going because it seems as though these kids might never be free of this situation. Now that it's become "their life" (Kate's words, not mine) it's tougher to sever ties to something that is supporting a rather extravagant lifestyle. Too much pressure on the kids if you ask me.

I was the one in Fall 2007 who was trying to get everyone to watch the show and I was always so excited to see new episodes. Now, I really feel like I need to stop watching for good because I don't see too much more that can be positive for the kids as a result of the decisions the parents are making now.

It's not real anymore. It's a show about having a reality show more than a show about a real family.

M

Jen said...

Just wanted to add that as a parent, if I were truly concerned about my ability to care for and support eight kids, the last thing I would do is purchase a house/estate of that magnitude knowing that the upkeep (taxes, utilities etc) would be so crazy.

I would get a slightly larger house to accomodate our neeeds and SAVE, SAVE, SAVE that money for the rainy day that WILL come. This show and all of the stuff associated with it can't last forever, and a responsible parent would know that. The house, while spacious, is ungodly pretensious and more for the parents than the kids. That worries me greatly about what their true motives are.

Stefanie said...

It has made me more of a fan.

I came across these blogs by accident and got sucked in because I enjoyed J&K. I let myself get caught up in all these rumors and hateful things, but thankfully not for long. Are J&K perfect parents? No. Do I agree with all thier choices? No. But do I think they are doing the best they know how to provide for their large family? Yes. I really do think that this is the best they know how and they arent doing it for fame, they are doing it to give their kids a better life.

Everyday I raise my family the best way I know how. I try to make decisions that will benefit my children and not everyone will agree with them, and thats fine. No one else knows my family or our situation, so really they have no right to judge. Those kids seem very happy, have food on the table, a roof over thier heads. They go to school, go to church, learn about the world through travel. They are being provided for. J&K shouldnt feel shameful for purchasing a new house- they may not NEED all the room, but Im sure the kids enjoy it and will as they get bigger. Yes people have family where ten people lived in a teeny house and they are fine. I know people who lived in poverty but made it through- that doesnt mean anyone who makes it through above that level is bad or wrong. Everyone has their own situations, beliefs, etc. and really who am I to judge? I surely ain't perfect.

So in the end, I am a fan of J&K and think they are doing the best they can for their family, and that is something I can relate to.

nomoredrama said...

Just wanted to add that as a parent, if I were truly concerned about my ability to care for and support eight kids, the last thing I would do is purchase a house/estate of that magnitude knowing that the upkeep (taxes, utilities etc) would be so crazy.

I agree with you to a point. However, it is my opinion that the Gosselins are more well off then they are letting on. Not because they are trying to trick people into donating to them but because they want to keep their finances to themselves.

Everyone knows by watching the show and all of the other things that they are involved in that the the family is quite wealthy. I think by clipping coupons, buying things on sale, etc. Kate and Jon are trying to preserve their wealth.

I've never been wealthy myself but I worked as a nanny/babysitter when in college for some rather wealthy families. They did shop at K-Mart and tipped like 10%. I think the conception that rich people throw around their money because they have it is a misnomer. Rich people who throw money around like that don't stay rich for long. I don't think buying a million dollar home is "throwing money around." Real estate, especially high end real estate, is an investment. Actually, in this part of P.A., a million dollar home is not that lofty. We're not hollywood, but we have a lot of celebs (like athletes, television personalities) that live here and their homes are way more than 1million. There is also a lot of old money around here. The median price of an suburban home (single family home) is roughly about 400-500k.

J&K will not be on "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" anytime soon.

And Jen, this is not directed at you but two words come to mind when reading some of the criticism "class envy."

Anya said...

mommy in nh said...However, I was just as surprised to see the posts on one of the media links they had. Someone had looked up there house value( 700,000)and alot of the posts looked similar to "other" sites.Talking about freebies etc.

Where as I was suprised to see some of things they asked for my first thougt was certainly not to look up there house value or any other personal info.

I was shocked at the similarities I saw and I guess I was wondering what others thought about giving and asking for things when expecting multiples. I am not in a postion to give nor would I ( I would prefer to give to other charites near and dear to me) I don't feel just because these people are asking for help it opens the door for people to spew hate about them.

I guess what I was wondering what others thought. (The site is JonesLife.net for those who are interested)

********************************
Hi Mommy in NH. I am so pleased you came out of lurkdom to post.
:-) I have to say, I think this story could be worthy of a feature. I checked out the website and I have a lot of thoughts going through my head right now.

It seems like living in 2009 brings ethical questions I personally could not have imagined even 3 or 4 years ago. I think reality t.v. and blogging has made many people open up their lives and that of their families in ways that are totally new and unexpected. You then add in instant access to personal information about others via such websites as Zaba Search and Zillow and the moral boundaries get blurry quite quickly (at least for me).

Like you, I don’t think it would have occurred to me to research this family and try and find out their financials. I have no doubt a family with multiples has many needs and I don’t begrudge them their decision not to reduce. I know it’s a decision made from their heart and faith. I personally don’t think I would be motivated to give to them, but if I did it would be because I wanted to and not because I was operating under the belief that my contribution was desperately needed.

That said there is no doubt that this is a slick looking website. I think that is a double-edged sword. It appears some will be turned off by it and by the request for larger donations (although I believe the request for prom dresses and wedding gowns is strictly humorous so I wonder if some of the other requests aren’t meant in the same context – hard to say).

This is a good looking family and the fact that they have gotten on board so quickly with marketing themselves makes me wonder what opportunities they are willing to consider. I have this sinking suspicion we may see them on TLC in the future. I am not saying that’s good or bad. I think we are going to have to wait a while before we can truly analyze the effect of this type of exposure.

About the only thing I can be *sure* of is I would not waste my time trying to bring down this family or “expose” them in any way. I kind of feel what comes around goes around and I would rather use my free time for more positive pursuits.

Thanks for a very thought provoking post.

Jen said...

And Jen, this is not directed at you but two words come to mind when reading some of the criticism "class envy."

No offense, and I know you mention that you aren't singling me out, but still...no one knows the "class" or economic situation of any of the people who are posting here.

I think it's rather unfair to assume that anyone who disagrees with the way they are throwing money around means that we are envious of their financial situation, however temporary it may be.

My point is that 8 kids surely would present anyone with a financial burden. Responsible parents who are nouveau riche, should be planning for the future rather than spending for the short-term.

Purchasing a 1.3 million dollar house is not for the kids. It's for the parents. As far as an investment...you only get return or "gain" on that investment (without incurring debt like a HELOC) if you sell. So if they planned to stay there forever, they have a forever's-worth of bills to go with it.

I hate to say this, but three or four years from now when we are all saying, "Jon and Who?" there will be some tough decisions to make. The only thing worse than not having something is having it and losing it. And THAT would be a tragedy for those kids.

Responsible parents should be thinking 18 years and beyond. And from what we have seen so far of Jon and Kate, responsibility isn't their strong suit.

This, like all wealth or fame based on pop culture, WILL end. That is a 100% certainty and from what I have seen in this past year, perhaps it should end sooner rather than later before they dig themselves a bigger hole. I'm actually terribly disappointed in how this whole thing has turned out because I was a huge fan.

I think their extravagant lifestyle, and featuring it on TV, will ironically be the thing that brings this income stream to an end. I feel for those kids.

Linda said...

I do think that the house may be a little extravagant but I also think that they are probably more wealthy than we know.

I think that their wealth is as much from the book sales as it is from the tv show.

Guinevere said...

would get a slightly larger house to accomodate our neeeds and SAVE, SAVE, SAVE that money for the rainy day that WILL come. This show and all of the stuff associated with it can't last forever, and a responsible parent would know that. The house, while spacious, is ungodly pretensious and more for the parents than the kids.

You don't know that they aren't saving a great deal of money. None of us know that. I don't know how you can call it pretentious when we haven't even seen it yet. I don't assume that it's more for the parents than the kids; I think it's for the whole family.

I think it's rather unfair to assume that anyone who disagrees with the way they are throwing money around means that we are envious of their financial situation, however temporary it may be.

My point is that 8 kids surely would present anyone with a financial burden. Responsible parents who are nouveau riche, should be planning for the future rather than spending for the short-term.


Why is it unfair for others to assume that people who make judgments about the Gosselins' wealth are jealous, but okay for you to make judgments about their financial circumstances when you have very little in the way of actual facts to go on?

Responsible parents should be thinking 18 years and beyond. And from what we have seen so far of Jon and Kate, responsibility isn't their strong suit.

Who are you referring to when you say "we"?

I think their extravagant lifestyle, and featuring it on TV, will ironically be the thing that brings this income stream to an end. I feel for those kids.

I think you make a huge and IMO inaccurate assumption in your apparent belief that a small, disgruntled band of internet loonies represents some significant portion of the show's audience. The show may end soon, or it may not. I doubt that the "extravagant" lifestyle of the Gosselins (which I certainly don't consider to be Lifestyles-of-the-Rich-and-Famous posh) will have anything to do with it.

Saint said...

I would get a slightly larger house to accomodate our neeeds and SAVE, SAVE, SAVE that money for the rainy day that WILL come.

Real estate is an investment. It is a wise way to save, save, save that money.

If they bought a home in that area recently, I would bet they got a good deal on it. The real estate market is slow in Berks County (and surrounding areas...like almost the entire US.)

Now is the time to buy.

People assume they paid the listing price for the home, but I don't. I suspect that they paid far less and walked through the front door with equity they didn't lay cash down for.

Jen said...

To those who were quoting my post...rather than address each comment individually I'll just say this. There is plenty of information that Jon and Kate have revealed themselves on the show and in recent interviews. That's where I'm getting my information and basing my "assumptions".

Jon recently said in a video interview that they are planning to buy a condo in the Park City, UT area so they have a place to go for skiing. Condos that are about 2 bed/2 bath or so in that area start at around a million dollars. This is so they can go skiing, in another state (airfare, etc) when they live in PA which is known for it's great skiing just a few hours away.

My point, without belaboring it anymore is this: These parents are using their children to fund a lifestyle that most parents of 8 children without gainful (i.e. employment that doesn't involve using their children in any way) employment would never consider. It's as though they expect this to go on forever. Whether you agree with my financial assessment or not, I think we could all (or at least mostly) agree that if this show and all of the circus that goes on around it were to go on for years and years, it would eventually take a toll on these children if it hasn't already.

The financial stability of this family is now 100% dependent on the image of these children. Whether being filmed, pictures being sold, books with pictures being sold and otherwise.

Can 100% of the people here actually say that they don't see something wrong with that? I can't believe that those who support Jon and Kate also can't see that this has trouble written all over it now that their "lifestyle" has become more extravagant and dependent on the kids participating in the "family job".

Nina Bell said...

The financial stability of this family is now 100% dependent on the image of these children. Whether being filmed, pictures being sold, books with pictures being sold and otherwise.

I tend to disagree with this statement. Recently we have seen people come out in fairly large groups to see just Kate. She now has speaking engagements booked that just involve her. There are rumors of a cook book.

There are people that are drawn to Kate and she quite possibly might have a career out there unrelated to the children.

Jen said...

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. Without the kids, this ends. No kids, no cash.

The new book is evidence of that. It's a picture book of the kids. It's stories about the kids. The kids are the bankable (or "marketable" commodity) that is making the lion's share of the money.

But, to each their own...I guess only time will tell how this all pans out.

nomoredrama said...

Jen I agree with you that if it wasn't for the kids none of this would be (In my opinion). I tend to think that if it wasn't for having sextuplets, they also wouldn't have been in financial distress. Therefore, they got creative about how to help themselves and regardless of what others think, it paid off. Some see this as exploiting the situation, others see it as entrepreneurship. I agree with you that they need to be careful and save. I think everything you say is valid.

You made a good point about making assumptions about class. As I pointed out, the comment was not directed to you. It's good to keep in mind. I will say that some of the anger directed at this family by others has largely been about the money they earn. I think this society as a whole vilifies the rich (IMO). This is true particularly now when economic crisis hits. To me this isn't the same as saying "yer jus jealous." I don't think this is about being jealous of the Gosselins. IMO, it's bigger than that. There are people who disdain the rich merely for their existence. Others think it is unfair in general that one person have millions of dollars while others have nothing. I see a lot of this in anti-gosselin posting.

Where I part ways with you overall is at the 'assumption' that they are living a lavish lifestyle. Lavish for whom? By implying that they are frivolously spending money on real estate we're assuming that 2 million dollars worth of property investment is going to break their bank if the show ends. I tend to doubt that. I think they are 'worth' more than a few million dollars. Every appearance, every press junket, the book sales, being
a spokesperson--this is all raking in the dough. Top this with the fact that they are still TLC's #1 rated show. Even if the show ended tomorrow, they would be financially fine (IMO). They pay for virtually none of the trips they are on. Jon and Kate have successfully made themselves a household name. If "Joe the Plumber" isn't going away, do you think the Gosselins will after the show has ended?

Again, I see what you are saying about the potential for the spending to be dangerous but unless we know their net worth, can we really speak to what is dangerous for them or not ?

SCGirl said...

I actually met Kate at a book signing this weekend. With all of the rumors surounding her, I couldn't help but try to find something wrong with her. Fortunatley, she was very pleasant and friendly to everyone.

SnowDay said...

My opinion of the family hasn't changed at all. I think Jon and Kate are witty and funny, and the kids are cute. I watch the show just as much for the kids as I do for the parents.

Like many of you have mentioned, the other blog site is very dramatic and over the top. I don't understand the logic they use to draw conclusions about a family they've never met. I have studied how some people rationalize their arguments, and it's bizarre. I read one comment that said Kate was holding a paper towel holder in her hand in one episode; and then it was concluded that Kate must be using it to hit her kids. And that article about Jon in Utah? Wow, that brought out a lot. Their marriage MUST be in trouble and Jon MUST be having an affair with a "ski bunny." It's absurd, and I can't believe people waste their time watching the show if they're just looking for things to write about on that blog. Kate's hair? Love it. At least she has a style.

Stefanie said...

I thought Jon brought up a good point in his Utah interview. He said if the money was for him he wouldnt be driving an older minivan and an old Sprinter. I dont see thier lifestyle as lavish by any means. Kates idea of designer clothes is Ann Taylor, her kids wear Gap, they driver older cars and other than the new house, havent made any big ticket purchases that we know of at least. Who knows about the condo in Utah, for all we know they are buying a timeshare and it came out as purchasing a condo. And even if they spent money to buy a condo, who is to say they dont rent it out when they arent there- you can make a good deal of money doing that. I certainly dont think lavish is the right word. I do think that a large house can be purchased for the whole family- ours was. Is it nice to have a big house and do I enjoy it? Absolutely. But were these decisions made for our growing family and thinking about their future? Absolutely. What is wrong with tyring to give your kids more?

Guinevere said...

I agree that the Gosselins' lifestyle is not "lavish" in the way I understand the word. I would see fancy/inappropriate cars (inappropriate as in not for the whole family), designer clothes and expensive jewelry as lavish. A home is for the whole family, and it is an investment. Hopefully the Gosselins have made good choices that will allow them to pay mortgage and upkeep even if their income stream diminishes. I have no reason to think they haven't. Kate is a worrier and a planner so I don't agree with the notion that they are spendthrifts.

It always confuses me when people claim that the kids are the only source of income. Without the kids, there would be no show, true. But without the parents, there would be no kids. The show is about the whole family, not just the kids. The parents are attempting to capitalize on opportunities that don't involve the kids - strangely, they still get criticized for this, even though this is supposedly what the haters want.

It's also just weird to me because many of the people who claim that the kids are the only reason for the show are the same people who can't tell Leah from Alexis but who can probably tell you how many hairs there are on Kate's head. I mean, so much of the online talk (which as I've said is not necessarily representative of the viewing community as a whole) is about Jon and Kate, and specifically about Kate. People watch for Kate. Maybe some watch just so they can rag on her hair, but the producers and sponsors don't care why they are watching, just that they are tuning in.

I just find these dire predictions ("the end is nigh!") and claims that Kate can't or won't have any success in anything that doesn't revolve around the kids to be a case of wishful thinking on the part of the haters. They may end up being right, but at this point I just don't think we know.

Tyra said...

Quote:
The financial stability of this family is now 100% dependent on the image of these children. Whether being filmed, pictures being sold, books with pictures being sold and otherwise.

I don't think that's true at all. If the sextuplets had been born to a couple who only made nicey-nice to each other, and to a mother who was so sugary sweet that she offended no one, the show would have died a quiet little death. A big chunk of the 'marketability' of the Gosselin family resides in the 'hate her but gotta keep watching and talking about her' relationship that developed between Kate Gosselin and the people who can't stand her, and their effect on the whole consumer community. The anti's raised Kate's profile, stimulated the dialogue about the Gosselins, and also forced people who liked her to defend their own opinions, and so made those people more invested in their consumer relationship with the Gosselins. When viewers/consumers hold a 'controversial' positive opinion of a show/individual, they're more likely to invest in the show/individual by buying books, DvDs, etc. Congratulations to the haters for that dynamic.

It's a great irony, isn't it?

What I see Kate exploiting is the energy of the haters. They have made it possible for her to use the fame they helped her get: to write books, to be a public speaker. As a further (small) irony, a bunch of the people who decry the 'exploitation' of the tv show try their very best to undermine the Gosselin's efforts to explore income opportunities that would enable the Gosselins to move away from the tv show, like writing, speaking and endorsements. Fortunately for the Gosselins, I don't think any of their undermining activities will have a big effect, at least not in the way the instigators intend.

I can't believe that those who support Jon and Kate also can't see that this has trouble written all over it now that their "lifestyle" has become more extravagant and dependent on the kids participating in the "family job".

I can't speak to your intent, but the effect the above passage has on me is: Wait a minute; you are assuming you know what's best financially for the Gosselins. How is that possible, when you don't know their specific financial situation (that's not any of our privilege to know)? In a larger sense, that's the pervasive attitude that often offends me about a lot of the opinions on the Gosselins: "We know better." Like assumptions about how filming affects the kids. Every negative behavior by the kids gets attributed to the effect of filming; it's not necessarily true, and we as viewers can never prove those type of assumptions one way or the other. None of us knows those kids. But people keep presuming.

That's different from holding the opinion that putting your own children on tv wouldn't be something you would do. There's lots of good arguments to back up that opinion, and I think it's a respectable opinion. But, when people expect me to pass the exact same judgment on this specific family that they do, and pile up assumptions as 'evidence': that the Gosselins are 'reckless' with their money, that the kids are being 'ruined' by the tv show, it's just a bunch of assumptions along with a dash of doomsaying, which, in addition to being a pasttime for some, also passes for 'proof' that one's opinion is the 'right' opinion.

Alicia said...

Wow!! LOVE THEM MORE DUH!!!
Some of the comments are so outta control! People are just jealous of how blessed they have been. They give back cause they know what a blessing it has been to them to have wonderful help. I see on here that people are dogging the children....That is crazy! THEY ARE CHILDREN PEOPLE! Not that i know John and Kate, but it seems to me that they do the best they know how and is that not what people around the U.S and world do.....their best? YES! Rumors are, what they are, just Rumors! They all rock my face off! My hubby and i are amazed at the family dynamic and how close they are, and how special they make each and everyone of their children feel. We love them! Great job mommy and daddy and negative people out there get a life ;) please!! lots of love the Bedwells! WE watch every episode btw

Anya said...

nomoredrama said...
There are people who disdain the rich merely for their existence. Others think it is unfair in general that one person have millions of dollars while others have nothing. I see a lot of this in anti-gosselin posting.


I agree and I think many people feel that emotion much more strongly because we did witness the Gosselins at a much less financially stable period of their life. It is pretty clear that some people would prefer they had remained in the lowish middle class existence we first saw them in.

Tyra said..."the effect the above passage has on me is: Wait a minute; you are assuming you know what's best financially for the Gosselins. How is that possible, when you don't know their specific financial situation (that's not any of our privilege to know)? In a larger sense, that's the pervasive attitude that often offends me about a lot of the opinions on the Gosselins: "We know better."

The "we know better" sentiment is not only illogical it is incredibly extraordinarily arrogant.

NotAPerfectMom said...

I can't speak to your intent, but the effect the above passage has on me is: Wait a minute; you are assuming you know what's best financially for the Gosselins. How is that possible, when you don't know their specific financial situation (that's not any of our privilege to know)? In a larger sense, that's the pervasive attitude that often offends me about a lot of the opinions on the Gosselins: "We know better." Like assumptions about how filming affects the kids. Every negative behavior by the kids gets attributed to the effect of filming; it's not necessarily true, and we as viewers can never prove those type of assumptions one way or the other. None of us knows those kids. But people keep presuming.

Excellent articulation of a very important point!

I also watch Little People, Big World. The Roloff's lifestyle has improved quite a bit since they began filming... yet they don't engender nearly the amount of intensely negative feelings (trying to avoid the word "hate"... although I did see on GWOP today someone post that they "hate that woman" in caps, so I guess it is not an inappropriate word).

I can anticipate the response: "But, the Roloff's don't live off their kids!"

I disagree with that premise. In my perspective, the Gosselin's do not "live off" their kids. I'm one who believes that the kids do natural kid things while being taped. As for posed photo shoots or other less than kid-friendly events I would ask: What child doesn't have some family responsibilities? I hardly think getting a picture made is torture. Even if it is hot. I can remember many hot days of working outside with my parents!

Anyway, my point is that I believe the Roloff's don't get the kind of -hate- Kate and Jon get because Kate is abrasive, pretty, and doesn't kiss ass.

Pardon my French.

Lizabeth said...

Tyra- I love the way you worded your post, especially how the one thing Kate is doing is *exploiting the hatred*. That is something I kept trying to pinpoint and just could not find a way to word properly! I feel the same way- seems like Jon and Kate know what they are doing and TLC tries to bring drama (or keep the drama going by cutting out parts of their lives such as contact with loved ones) just to increase speculation. I have to admit, its quite the business strategy.

Notaperfectmom, I definitely agree most of the hatred for this show is focused on Kate and her personality. There are rarely any comments made about what pageant children go through, as well as what happens to kids whose parents are actors and they are carted back and forth all over the world. Suri Cruise may not have a TV show but she is 'on camera' more often than the Gosselin kids. I see nothing inherently wrong with that-- just a discrepancy and misproportioned amount of anger at this one family.

mommy in nh said...

Anya,

I am sorry I came across the wrong way. Families with mutiples intrigue me. I wrote that post because of all the similarites I saw between the two families. As well as the negativity against them.
I by no means ws tring to bring them down or add to the negative press. I believe that who ever wants to give should and who ever doesn't shouldn't and that should be that. However I guess I was just suprised that some people are willing to run a background check on line.
Thaks for letting me add my two cents. I promise to stay on topic from now on. :)

Aaron said...

Definitely love them more!

Because not only did they take their personal situation and make something amazingly great out of it but they are also able to ignore the harsh negative comments. Actually they do better then ignore it, they are flourishing, and I think all the negativity has something to do with it.

I mean who doesn't like to prove people wrong when they say something negative about them!

Stefanie said...

Along with the Roloff's Im surprised that there isnt more discussion about the Duggers. Personally, I have a bigger issue with the Duggers than J&K for quite a few reasons.

I may not agree with everything J&K do, but the total hatred towards this family really turns me off. They say some awful things not only about J&K, but about those sweet children. How low.

bigsis88 said...

Nina Bell,

I'm not calling Linda creepy; I just thought it was interesting that someone supposedly against people Googling the Gosselins (I say "supposedly" because that's what the majority of people who post here seem to think, but I don't look out for her posts in particular) would Google someone else. My point is that I'm too lazy/disinterested to research someone's every word in order to throw it in his/her face later. I guess I sort of read blog posts in a "vacuum" (that is, grouped by each individual blog), amd I tend to skip over people's names anyway, unless they raise an interesting point or I want to respond. I was unaware that people put in that kind of effort.

Anya said...

mommy in nh said...Anya,
I am sorry I came across the wrong way. Families with mutiples intrigue me. I wrote that post because of all the similarites I saw between the two families. As well as the negativity against them.
I by no means ws tring to bring them down or add to the negative press. I believe that who ever wants to give should and who ever doesn't shouldn't and that should be that. However I guess I was just suprised that some people are willing to run a background check on line.
Thaks for letting me add my two cents. I promise to stay on topic from now on. :)


Hey girl! I didn't think for a minute you were engaging in any negative discussion. I thought the post was really interesting and brought up a lot of common issues/concerns with the Gosselins. That's why I made an off-hand comment about running as a feature - I certainly wasn't implying that we were off-topic!

Obviously, the majority of us here share an interest in multiples too and one of my pet peeves is when folks want to focus on the Gosselins perceived defiencies without looking at their story through a wider lens - be it other multiple families and/or reality t.v. families.

Please post more, ok? :-)

Linda said...

Just to clarify . . .

I'm not "against" people googling the Gosselins. I'm against people stalking the Gosselins.

Googling an essentially anonymous screen name is quite different than googling a real live person, a minor child, or family with the sole purpose of finding out personal information to post for the world to see on the internet.

Did it take time? No. Less than 20 keystrokes when the words Ilovehaters and Gosselins are combined.

Nina Bell said...

Absolutely Linda

We all would not have found these blogs if we did not google Gosselins.

I also think people could be unaware of the amount of trolling that goes on in the Gosselin blog world and sometimes one might want to check things out before they respond.

Nina Bell said...

And to go along with this topic, look what the person in question has changed their profile to say.

http://www.blogger.com/profile/02246820817579811578

themrs said...

nina- who's profile is that?

Nina Bell said...

themrs.

The person up thread that a few posters had a back and forth with.

I believe the poster previously was known as I Love Haters.

themrs said...

that's kind of disturbing! no, i do not want to see your gun!

Jenn said...

wow, that is VERY disturbing. guess he realized he was caught in a lie. and for the record, no i do not want to see your gun. IMO, ilovehaters needs a reality check.

bigsis88 said...

Nina Bell,

I see your point, but since I didn't see "ilovehaters" posts as trolling, I still don't see why one would bother to Google him/her. If he/she had said something outrageous/offensive/whatever, maybe I would get it, but I the topic of "ilovehaters" identity was brought up by someone else, presumably to "call out" him/her as a hypocrite. It seemed off-topic to me (not that there's anything wrong with going off-topic), but I guess I'm wondering what the protocol is for Googling someone. Do you (the general you) Google everyone who posts here, or people who say things you don't agree with, or people whose screennames you don't recognize, etc? Not trying to beat the dying horse, lol, I just didn't realize people cared that much who was on the other end of the computer screen, given that he/she isn't spreading lies, impersonating someone else, etc.

Lizabeth said...

bigsis88 said:

Do you (the general you) Google everyone who posts here, or people who say things you don't agree with, or people whose screennames you don't recognize, etc?

As far as I am concerned, if someone chooses to put a screenname or their information online it is fair game to be googled, researched, etc. This is why my screenname here is something totally different from anywhere else that I have ever posted- same thing with how my google account is set up. I think everyone should be aware of what information is online about themselves just so they can know what people are able to find out.

Yes, I do google peoples screennames at times. Sometimes its a random "Oh they mentioned they had more info on their blog-- I wonder if its under this name." Other times it is because that person has done things which do not seem right or clear and googling is an attempt to figure out what else could be going on (i.e. if that poster is also saying bad things about GDNNOP on other sites, its a good thing for us to be aware of, etc).

Hahah-- I actually have found out a lot of information about my ex boyfriend (nothing negative-- just a couple innocent, dorky message boards he was a part of) through googling his screenname. I guess in my mind since we have the entire internet at our fingertips, why not increase knowledge and be more aware of what is going on by using it?

Anya said...

Lizabeth said... I guess in my mind since we have the entire internet at our fingertips, why not increase knowledge and be more aware of what is going on by using it?

I agree and as Linda touched on, it comes down to intent. What do you plan to DO with the information? Stalk? Write angry emails to churches, realtors and other organizations to try and make someone's life more difficult? Or to be very specific, find out where Kate's mother works and call her up?!?

I have no issue with what Linda did. As it turned out, her reservations about this poster were right on target.

Carrie said...

Anya asked -
Anyone with actual marketing experience willing to back me up on this one?
----------------------------------
As a Marketing Manager, I think I can help with that! : )

P&G, Kmart, Microsoft, and all the other companies will do research in regards to spokespeople. In fact, they have whole Marketing and Public Relations departments to handle it! Research was done to make the decision, and that research continues throughout the year. The GWOP board is under the assumption that their way of thinking outnumbers that of the "sheeple". Considering the amount of viewership Jon & Kate + 8 has, there are MILLIONS that don't even know such boards (positive or negative) exist. Also, the fact that a few of the boards are essentially hate sites, that will be taken into account as well. P&G makes billions of dollars worldwide, and several posters having issues with its choice of product placements and a spokesperson are not an impact.

I need to also interject that calling people "sheeple" irks me. I don't always agree with Kate but I also don't always agree with the comments made by bloggers. That does not mean that I don't understand the monetary opportunities and gains the G's have had over the years. I watch the show because I think it's better than most other television programming and I don't see it as child exploitation. That is my opinion, an educated one at that, and Kate Gosselin didn't herd me to think that way.

Also, in the world of
DVR/TiVo/viewing shows online, product placement is a guaranteed way of having a product viewed. It use to be that items used on television shows were generic products, but those days are long gone. It's not a way of selling out either - if its products that the G's used or were in need of, it works out for both them and P&G, and it allows the family to save money so that they can afford a home for them to run around in.

When watching the show, it seems obvious to me that they were running out of space. While buying $1.3 million dollar home may not seem to some like an appropriate use of money, excellent points were already established that we don't know the details of their financial lives or the circumstances of the purchase. I see it as a large home, plenty of land, and a driveway to bike in that is away from prying eyes. Looks to me like a place for them to enjoy PRIVATE time as a family.

With all that said, it's obvious the show has changed, but then again the family has changed as well. Some episodes are good but others not at all. For example I couldn't stand the giving back episode where they traveled to St.Jude's.

To me it seemed like a waste to travel with 8 children to TN, for them not to be able to actually interact with the children. The "gifts" to the children and families were copies of their book and coloring books based on the movie promoted throughout the show. Also, each kid having a stuffed animal from the show and sitting on the bed reading the book. It was all just too much... not at all "real" either. Whereas when the toured the NICU and Ron McDonald House was a nice hour of television.

I've watched the show since it made the transition to TLC (I didn't have Discovery Health). My boyfriend has hated the show all this time and says it's because of Kate. Although I say to him, "the woman carried SIX children". That's the bottom line to me. Don't get me wrong, having sextuplets does not allow you to forget any social norms, but I don't know that it's fair to accuse Kate of such things.

I don't know the personal lives of the posters, but I'm pretty sure none are parents of high order multiples or multiple multiples. After all, that's the purpose of the show - they were the first parents in that situation. The truth of the matter is, there really is no place for the judgment and hatred because raising sextuplets is not the same as raising six children; combine that with a set of twins and the Gosselins truly are living the best they know how.

Anya said...

Carrie, I really appreciate you taking the time to reply. If you see this post, I am curious as to whether P&G (and other companies) would conduct focus groups to determine how well Kate connects with viewers and consumers? Your point is a good one about the number of viewers vs. the numbers of bloggers and that's been something that's been discussed on this blog. I guess I would be interested to know what your average general viewer who doesn't go on the internet thinks of Kate and whether she would be a credible and effective spokesperson (on the whole) for P&G, K-Mart, etc.?

I guess where I am going with this is I do understand some viewers are put off by Kate's personality. I personally like her and even admire her (most of the time), but it's not out of my realm of understanding to appreciate that not everyone feels the same way. I do not understand and never will understand hating her or trying to interfere with her life or opportunities that do not involve the children. So would you agree that Kate is polarizing? Is that someone your average Fortune 500 company wants for a spokesperson? I am looking for honest answers.

My own perspective is there are many who love her (based on a quick look at personal blogs via Google), some who hate her, but *very few* that don't have an opinion on her. I think a lot of us on this blog don't ignore her faults, but are willing to give her credit for what we consider her good points....

BTW, I appreciated all the points you made and you have caused me to think about some things in a new way. For example, the St. Judes episode was one I enjoyed for the most part and thought was good publicity for the hospital, but I do appreciate the points you have made.

themrs said...

i just googled my screen name and apparently it's a popular one because none of the results were about me. that makes me feel a little better!

Carrie said...

Anya -

First off, hats off for a community that welcomes and respects various view points.

It's hard to address if Kate is effective without knowing the purpose P&G has for her.

Focus groups are used regularly in the industry of consumer goods. A focus group is a moderated discussion and the purpose of the focus group is to be representative of the general public, so really, it sometimes is similar to selecting a jury. If it was known that the person felt STRONGLY one way or anther for Kate, they would not be permitted. The moderator and the company would be interested in knowing the general public's thoughts on Kate, but more so if they are more or less interested in using/learning more about Brand Saver.

The first rule of using a spokesperson is it has to make sense. A mother of 8 living in Central PA does make sense. Granted, if people knew that the family was in million dollar digs, she may lose credibility.

You can also see along side her images on the Brand Saver ads copy that generally reads "Kate Gosselin, mother of 8..." There is a purpose for that, Kate and her family are not a household name, so plenty of Americans are interested in P&G that know nothing about this woman, but reading "mother of 8" will reach out to that group.

I'm sure P&G is more than aware of both the positive and negative feedback that Kate receives on-line, and yet they proceeded to utilize her at events in NYC, which shows its market research is in Kate's corner. I think that translates to KMart as well.

I'd also like to say again, we don't know the overall mission of Brand Saver and therefore Kate's role. It could be a more short-term campaign (one purpose of coupons is to increase immediate sales), so it may end and Kate might be sent on her way just has planned. Haters may cry victory without even knowing the circumstances.

I think the more interesting deal to look at is Jon for Microsoft. I'd like to see what direction that takes on, as a few years in the IT field doesn't equate to being a spokesperson for a software company.

Anya said...

Carrie, many thanks for taking the time to reply and all the information and insight you provided.

As an aside, I have done a few focus groups in the past. I know they screen to get a mixture of people. The last one I did was on cheese. Most of the people in my group seemed to have much stronger and more varied opinions on cheese than I do!

Anyway,they are always interesting experiences (being watched behind the mirror and the facilitator obviously looking to get reactions to key issues the company is looking at).