Saturday, January 31, 2009

Videos

Kate has participated in several interviews regarding the birth of the octuplets born in California. These interviews took place in Philly. This post is a place for you to discuss these interviews.

CNN
Access Hollywood
CBS News

Please check out this link regarding the Gosselin's interviews.

156 comments:

Lizabeth said...

I think Kate handled herself well in these interviews-- the kids were not exactly quiet, but she seemed to keep control as well as possible. I was shocked at how quietly the boys sat though! I was glad to realize these were taped in Philadelphia-- Kate could have done all the interviews within an hour one morning just to get them all over with (before snack time!).

Bridget said...

Oh, Mady. That child cracks me up. I know some people might see her as bratty, but she is censor free and doesn't care if the camera is on her or not.

Hannah looked so cute with her hair up. Well, they all lokked cute!

Jen K said...

I was surprised she could keep her thoughts on track with all of that, but after watching a few of these where the kids are basically saying, "are we done?" "can we go home?" it calls into question what Kate had said that the kids don't have to participate if they don't want to.

I can't remember which interview, but I think one of the boys says something like that and she says, "NO, we're interviewing".

Just kind of demonstrates that the kids don't *really* get to choose what they do and what they don't regarding the show, interviews, appearances and stuff. But whatever....the kids are cute and I love how Maddy speaks her mind! Wonder what was said afterward regarding her, "yeah, but I still like Daddy better" comment. :)

scarfoot said...

I hate to make a sweeping generalization that because the kids were told they had to participate in these interviews, that they are not given choices about participating in the show. But boy, they sure weren't into doing those interviews, were they? Ha!

I think that Jon and Kate are going to have some interesting times with that Mady. Of course they love her, but she is very strong willed. My mother would never have allowed me to tell her to quit bossing her around.

Jen K said...

Hannah looked so cute with her hair up. Well, they all lokked cute!


Oh I loved the way their hair was done. Especially Hannah so you could see her face finally. :) Those little ponytail things on their heads...made me wish I had girls a little bit!

Jen K said...

I thought of this after I posted my earlier comment about the kids not having to do anything they didn't want to. Why weren't the kids in school? I mean, call me crazy, but doing a spree of interviews about another mom in another state whom they don't even know seems like a rather thin reason to miss at least a half day of school.

But I'm from the school of thought that doesn't think kids should go on Disneyworld vacations during the school year and miss a week of school for a vacation. So maybe that's just me.

Nina Bell said...

I mean, call me crazy, but doing a spree of interviews about another mom in another state whom they don't even know seems like a rather thin reason to miss at least a half day of school.

Having a vast amount of experience in this field (over 20 years), I can tell you that there are far "thinner" reasons used than this.

One has no idea what the attendance or grades are of the twins. We have no idea if there homework was received ahead of time.

The bottom line is that the parents and the school staff are the best possible individuals to judge this.

FIONA said...

So I wonder if TLC called Kate up or her PR people and said "this would be a great marketing moment for you, do these interviews"....still maintain that the kids overall behavior to sit still and behave for 5 minutes is pretty poor, except for the boys, they seem to know what is expected of them and they behave. I like Mady but to say her Mom is not the boss of her makes me think what other things she says to Kate.

The kids were set decorations, on display and I don't think anyone of them cared to be doing it.

Really thought Kate was disingenuous...just doing her job.

Leah said...

Not exactly the Gosselin's best set of interviews, but I don't think they were that bad, either.

They all looked adorable (and big!). A lot is made about how the girls misbehaved, but I'm so impressed that the boys (especially Joel) just sat there contently the whole time. My favorite moment was when Mady hit Leah or Alexis (normally I can tell them apart, but not this time!) with some red toy, and Cara reached over and hugged her. I also loved how much of a fan the CNN guy was. I guess he's not GWOP's rogue reporter.

Hopefully, the Gosselins learn from this and don't bring the twins to all the interviews. I'm willing to bet, however, that some of these shows demand that she have all eight kids for the interview. Plus, I've seen many interviews were Mady seems to enjoy being in front of the camera. She was definitely having an off day.

MoreCowbell said...

This is what I said over on BabyMama's site when I watched the videos:

The CBS interview isn't bad. As the anchor said (regarding Mady), "She sounds just like a big sister." It was clear that Mady was smiling when she said she "liked Daddy better," and Kate laughed it off. I saw nothing wrong with her responses or her behavior in the CBS video. Having six four year old siblings probably IS a pain. They're EVERYWHERE and they're loud and demanding and probably in her face ALL the time.

Now, the Access Hollywood video is a different story. Mady was sullen and pouting and rude. It certainly seems as if something went on before the cameras rolled that put her in a bad mood. Perhaps Kate disciplined her. Whatever the circumstance, she deserves to be reprimanded for disrespecting her parent like that, whether she did it in private or public or in front of a camera.

Now, if that behavior is habitual for Mady, then there's a problem. We've all seen her misbehave, but hardly to the extent that I think she's a serious problem, and perhaps she needs to talk to someone. There is no shame in seeing a child psychologist IF the Access Hollywood behavior is becoming a pattern at home or in school. If not, and the Access Hollywood behavior was unusual (and I think it probably is) she's just being the Mady we usually see, then that is something Jon and Kate are dealing with and doing fairly well.

I think the Mady/Kate relationship is going to be hot and cold for the rest of their lives. Mady IS Kate, personality wise, and Cara is Jon. Mady and Kate will clash constantly, regardless if there are cameras rolling to record it, or not. They are too much alike.

Bridget said...

ITA, school should be first priority, especially for Cara and Mady. Getting out of school for reasons other than illness or a true family emergency is not a habit that parents want their kids to have. However, I usually don't speculate on whether J & K have taken the kids out of school. Wastes too much brain power trying to figure it all out :)


I wanted to comment on the kids having to go to interviews when they don't want to. This is just my opinion, but.... kids have to do things that they don't want to do. It happens all the time. I don't think having the kids sit somewhat quietly for the interview is asking a whole lot. I was raised by pretty strict parents and spent alot of my childhod bored because we had to visit my parent's friends, places of work, of course church, furniture stores, the bank, and we had to sit quietly with our hands folded and not make a peep. When we were very young,my mom and grandmother took my sister and I antiquing every weekend, and we never broke anything. Boring, yes and we didn't want to do it, but we did because that was what mom said to do. And we learned to be careful around valuables and other people's property. Would I take my four year old to an antique shop? I don't know if I'm that brave!

Now does doing interviews tie in with filming? Kate has said that when the kids want to stop filming, they are done. However, if one or two of the kids asks in the middle of the interview if they can go home, should Kate just take the kids and leave? I personally wouldn't mind just seeing Jon or Kate doing the interviews, especially if they are being taken out of school. But, as a whole, I believe that having to do things that they don't want to do will instill good discipline in the kids.

Oh, yes. I am the disciplinarian in my house and last night my 8 year old told me that she loves her dad more :( I asked why, and she said, "Daddy doesn't make me do my homework, clean my room, or make me go to bed".

Jen K said...

One has no idea what the attendance or grades are of the twins. We have no idea if there homework was received ahead of time.


Well, of course we don't have that information. :) I never made mention of their grades or overall attendance, just that my personal feeling on kids and school is that kids should miss as few days as possible and really only if they are sick or there is a family emergency (or funeral or something of that nature). Especially in the current educational system where kids are sometimes rushed through areas of their cirriculum, it's important to be there as much as possible.

And I know parents keep their kids home for all sorts of ridiculous reasons, but we're just talking about the G's and this one situation. I just think that the interview was an unnecessary reason to miss school especially in light of the fact that the kids didn't seem to be getting much out of the experience anyway and were clearly unhappy. Plus, Kate's message could have been communicated just as well (or better) without them there. JMHO.

Jen K said...

However, if one or two of the kids asks in the middle of the interview if they can go home, should Kate just take the kids and leave? I personally wouldn't mind just seeing Jon or Kate doing the interviews, especially if they are being taken out of school. But, as a whole, I believe that having to do things that they don't want to do will instill good discipline in the kids.


Oh, I totally agree that kids have to do things they don't want to do. I think we've all been there as kids and now as parents too.

I just think that since this is more of a "job" thing than a family obligation/errand/regular day that they should absolutely be allowed to opt-out as Kate has said they have the ability to do. If some were not interested, send them off set to read, color, visit with a caregiver and then just explain, "Well, I have five of my eight here today...a few decided they had some other things they needed to do today like homework" or whatever. I don't think it would reflect badly on the interview or Kate to have some of her brood there who were interested to do it, or frankly none of them. Either way, I think that most parents understand that kids run hot and cold and sometimes whether we like it or not, we parents have to make choices about who goes where and does what in order to get things done.

I was also raised in a pretty strict household and just basically did what I was told, so it boggles my mind at how kids can behave so poorly in public, but that's just a difference in families and the dynamic. I didn't have 7 siblings either! :)

But I think personally, that this entire experience is a unique situation and needs to be handled as such. None of us were on tv as kids, having to live our lives on camera, and I can see how the kids especially the older ones would grow to resent it. Especially when it takes them further from the "norm" which is so important developmentally to children at that age.

Nina Bell said...

Well Jen K

In my opinion, to make that judgment we would need to know the whole picture.

Jen K said...

Well Nina, :)

We will NEVER know the whole picture about any of this because we aren't them. So all we can do is discuss what we see right?

None of us have any more information than what we see on tv and read in interviews. We're all making judgments and have opinions here. We can disagree and have different opinions about most everything.

Nina Bell said...

Possibly the kids woke up excited to go. You know how kids can be. Change their mind in a second. They get hungry, tired and annoyed.

Nina Bell said...

That's right Jen K

When I posted my first comment, I was just discussing a statement you had made.

Saint said...

Thanks for the videos!

I LOVE all three of these interviews...they are exactly what I LOVE about the Gosselins. They are a very normal, natural, big family. Kate has come a LONG way in her tolerance for distractions and things "not going as planned" since that ice cream scene at Disney two years ago!

I liked seeing Kate handle them by herself.

She's a good mom. Some of them needed to be disciplined (not much, they were just antsy and they were only distracting her) and she did just what my mom would have done. I love big families...they are so normal for a big family. Look at how many of them sat patiently. That's a good mom, and they are great kids.

I think Mady probably mouths off quite a bit more than Cara, and I bet Kate handles her just fine in private. She's a work in progress (we ALL are.) Mady doesn't have serious issues. She has a distinct, challenging personality. I'd never let my kid get away with that...but all you can do is give consequences once they say something smart-mouthed like that. And I definitely think the mother should discipline THAT behavior privately. Besides, Mady's moods swing both ways. She's as likely to be the excited attention-seeking one as the grumpy one.

For a lot of families that homeschool, they are finished withing 4 hours in a day. That's because there is a LOT of wasted time in a school day: moving from room to room, waiting until everyone is settled, 1-2-3 at the water fountain for 20 other kids, waiting to use the bathroom or get lunch. Missing school for something like this is no big deal. Going to Philadelphia and seeing a news set is educational. I am definitely from the school of thought that says taking a Disney vacation in the winter can be more educational than more fractions practice, especially for the kids who "get" what they've been learning and aren't falling behind. What better way to teach about how your latitude affects the flora and fauna than to leave snowy PA in winter and land in Florida? I can go on and on about how it is "worth" being pulled from school for something like that, but I won't. I just want you to know that not everyone agrees that this sort of thing is not valuable in and of itself.

My favorite line: when Hannah got scolded in the CNN interview she protested, "but I am squish-ed!" then pouted. Awww! I used to be squish-ed in the back of our station wagon, and my mom didn't care either! I HEAR ya Hannah!

FIONA said...

I tend to agree with Jen K that this interview was part of their *work* and if a kid wants to opt out of an interview for whatever reason, they should be allowed to do so. On the other hand, I think Kate should have the sense and compassion to know which kid isn't into it and give them the day off.

I also agree about them not missing school except for illness or emergency. I think the kids schooling is one thing Kate shouldn't muck up. Let them keep their routine, and insist that interviews be done after school or weekends. Whether or not the kids had their assignments before hand or not, most likely on a Friday, in second grade they missed out on something, be it a spelling test, ice cream day, or Show and Tell.

This isn't about speculating as to how the kids are doing in school, it is about their *job* not interfering with their right to go to school uninterrupted.

Saint said...

How cute were those girls? The little ones had the cutest hair styles!

I loved Kate's advice to the new mom. I recently read the book which covers the pregnancy and the tups first year. Kate's advice reminds me of the "story" I read there. There is so much in the book to think about, that we don't see in the show anymore: the at-home medical care for preemies, the loss of privacy to all the helpers, the lack of flexibilty because of the babies' daily needs, the physical toll (possibly permanent) on Kate.

I like how she described the transition from pregnancy to birth as "passing the baton." It's a really good metaphor. A relay team requires everyone to shoulder some of the burden, but when a runner has the baton, everyone depends on that runner to give everything of herself. Kate had to do that during her pregnancy. She also had to reliquish a lot of control to doctors, the NICU staff, helpers, family, and her husband once the babies were born. There is a lot to admire of Jon and Kate in that story. It's a shame that people who don't approve of the Gosselins won't read what they went through. It gave me a different perspective on them. I also understand far better why they have their children on TV.

FIONA said...

Hi Saint,

I think we see Kate's fury more clearly when she is trying to intimidate the kids into behaving...she doesn't seem anymore relaxed to me in these clips.

I also would like to add that to say Mady does not have issues is only your opinion. I disagree 100% with you, respectively, of course.

And while much of a school day may indeed be wasted, with your reasoning anything they do could be considered educational and therefore missing school is OK.

As I said earlier, I don't think the kids school routine should be messed with.

Kate's own mantra is ROUNTINE, ROUTINE...but only when it doesn't involve the family job?

Saint said...

When Jon and Kate say that the kids don't have to participate in the show I think they mean 2 different things. I think that they generally have agreed (maybe unanimously, maybe majority rules) to continue with the show. That may include a morning of interviews, as we see here. So if there is a "general" agreement, they just have to suck it up and fulfill these committments as they come up. If Jon was elsewhere, all eight kids had to go if no one else was home to watch them that day. Then when particular filming days happen, the kids are allowed to play at a friends' house, hang out in their room, or participate as much as they feel like it. If they are travelling, they aren't allowed to be home alone or go home half way through the day. They stick it out.

We have this rule with our kids. If they want to join a sports or extra-curricular activity, they have to commit. They can't decide at each individual practice whether they want to practice or participate that night. The initial decision is theirs, and then they follow through on the committment. There is no quitting, and no "taking a break" when they don't feel like going.

Jen K said...


This isn't about speculating as to how the kids are doing in school, it is about their *job* not interfering with their right to go to school uninterrupted.


Totally agree!

And as my parents used to say to me, "Going to school *is* your job when you're a kid" :)

Jen K said...


We have this rule with our kids. If they want to join a sports or extra-curricular activity, they have to commit. They can't decide at each individual practice whether they want to practice or participate that night. The initial decision is theirs, and then they follow through on the committment. There is no quitting, and no "taking a break" when they don't feel like going.


While I agree with you and your philosophy on activities and committing to something, I think this is a very different situation. No one here, except for the parents, has had any real say in any of this. I mean, the little kids were only about 16 months old when this all started. :)

Plus, if one of my children decides to start piano, their follow through or lack thereof doesn't impact another child. Meaning, if one decided to play that doesn't mean they all have to.

I totally agree with you about following through with what you have committed to, but only the parents have really done that here. I don't think you can hold a child to a decision or whatever someone would call it that was made when the child was only 4 as in the twins' case. Once they want out, I think they should be out. And Kate said as much in the Q & A episode, but it doesn't seem as though she is following through on what she said.

I was pleasantly surprised to see the boys behave so well though! I have a boy and am one of those "Yay Boys" moms, so that's always good to see!

Tyra said...

Quote:
Just kind of demonstrates that the kids don't *really* get to choose what they do and what they don't regarding the show, interviews, appearances and stuff.

I think that's a distortion of what Kate said about opting out. A filming day is one thing, the kids can decide they want privacy from the cameras as they go about their personally chosen activities. An interview is different. For one thing, it doesn't involve the kids living their daily lives, so the issue of having the choice of privacy, which is what the 'opting out' is meant to serve, is not at issue. The interview is simply a commitment, yes, made by their mother, but how is that different from another mother making the kids visit auntie and uncle, even though they don't want to?

But I'm from the school of thought that doesn't think kids should go on Disneyworld vacations during the school year and miss a week of school for a vacation. So maybe that's just me.

That's not a valid comparison. It wasn't a week; it was one morning, or at the most, a single day. Parents do that all the time, and I personally think we all need that little flexibility so we can accomplish the tasks involved in living our lives as a family. I think Kate has the same privilege.

If some were not interested, send them off set to read, color, visit with a caregiver and then just explain, "Well, I have five of my eight here today...a few decided they had some other things they needed to do today like homework" or whatever.

And then, the scream of 'Unfair!' goes up from various kids, and you've got chaos. I wouldn't even attempt that mess if I were Kate.

None of us were on tv as kids, having to live our lives on camera, and I can see how the kids especially the older ones would grow to resent it. Especially when it takes them further from the "norm" which is so important developmentally to children at that age.

I hear people talk about the 'norm' all the time. How would you define it? Personally, I'm not interested in somebody else's 'norm' dictating my life. Why should the Gosselins?

Nina Bell said...

This is the problem I have with the whole school situation. We just don't know what they missed, how much they missed or if they missed. But the mere bringing up this subject regarding this interview will now become a fact.

We will hear over and over again that the twins are missing school for interviews. As if it is fact. As if they do it all of the time.

Nina Bell said...

I also agree about them not missing school except for illness or emergency.

I guess the Obama girls should have been in school on January 20th 2009.

Saint said...

Fiona,
I didn't see "fury" at all. I saw a mother who was annoyed at one or two kids. She didn't "lose" it like she did at Disney. She remained pretty compartmentalized, too. I mean she could give "the look" to a kid, but be laughing off the distraction with the interviewer. "Fury" to me implies "out of control."

I have NO PROBLEM intimidating my kids to listen when necessary. Let me give you an example of the kind of intimidation I think is superior to diplomacy:

Four little neighborhood kids find a bees' nest in the ground. Two of them are my kids, two are the neighbors'. Both moms see the kids about ten yards away, curiously sneaking toward the nest. She calls out, very "diplomatically" and educationally, 'Now dears, don't disturb the bees because bees can be aggressive when they feel threatened and they don't like when children stomp on their nest because they have little ones in there..."

I yell out at this point, "GET THE HELL AWAY FROM THOSE BEES! GET OVER HERE!"

When they run over (due to my intimidating them) she can patiently explain the nature of bees. I'm all for that lesson, after they're safe.

As for my "pull them from school" attitude for family vacations or other 'different' activities, I think a lot of people would be shocked at how I view such a thing. That doesn't make me wrong. I have never, in all my professional life, met one child that I thought should have been in school when he had the chance to do something like that. People just do not generally abuse this in my experience. Yes, I have dealt with truancy, but I don't consider staying home to do laundry for a lazy caretaker or or "I just didn't feel like coming because I was too cold," to be what I mean by educational experiences. So no, Fiona, you are wrong that I would support missing school for any reason.

Paula said...

Being from PA, a lot of the schools had semester break this week and a lot of school districts had snow days.

FIONA said...

Committing to be on a sports team or taking paino lessons...not a good analogy or the G's as they obviously did not make Cara carry out her committment to the piano is not even close to the same as doing an interview for TV.

Sorry, but I don't buy the "family job" notion, or give any creedance that the kids have given their approval. Too big of a decsion to put on a kid.


======
I think that's a distortion of what Kate said about opting out
=======

Well, therin lies a huge problem because I think Kate distortes alot of things.

Saint said...

The Obama girls? Exactly! How about the kids who got in motorhomes and traveled cross-country for a week to see the inauguration? I totally support that. My own kids all watched on TV that day. In school!

Like I said, "I didn't feel like coming" or "Mom was drunk so we missed the bus" are excuses that I haven't accepted. "I got two tickets to the McCain-Palin rally," is an excuse I supported. I'd support meeting a famous person (even if you're a famous kid,) going to New York on Mom's book tour, and being interviewed at the CNN or CBS studio. I'd also support celebrating the 50th wedding anniversary cruise for your grandparents, or if you went to an old aunt's funeral.

Ladies, there is a LOT of repetition in school.
There is also a whole body of research supporting doing something different to help retention of information and learning. Please, consider breaking your routines and the routines of your children during the school year. It's good for the mind

My reasoning is fine.

FIONA said...

I guess the Obama girls should have been in school on January 20th 2009.

January 31, 2009 10:04 AM

====

So not even close I can't believe you wrote that.

FIONA said...

So Saint, given your theory of democracy in the G house, if Cara and Mady had opted out, majority rules and they are screwed. Which very well may be the case.

Nina Bell said...

Well believe it. Rigid standards only for Kate.

FIONA said...

Saint,

YOUR reasoning may be fine for kids who live a normal life, but I think the G kids absolutely need some stability.

I think Jon and Kate should not mess with their school days-

Saint said...

Fiona and Jenn,
If you take the position that the decision is too big for a child to gives his/her approval, then what does it matter what they think anyway? I am not sure I follow.

Four is too young to consider what that agreement means, but after four years, experience has taught these kids what "doing the show" means. I just don't think the kids hate it as much as people who hate the show imagine. If they did, and were forced to continue, you'd have an excellent point. But do they? How would we know if they couldn't stand it? Not from the video where they say, "Are we done yet?" Kids say that when they are driving to a place they actually want to go to. It means, "I hate this RIGHT now," not "I hate this ALWAYS."

Tyra said...

Quote:
No one here, except for the parents, has had any real say in any of this. I mean, the little kids were only about 16 months old when this all started. :)


But that's parenting! You decide for your child. Whether or not you or I agree with that parent's decision, they have the right, like any other parent, to decide for their child.

I didn't see "fury" at all. I saw a mother who was annoyed at one or two kids.

It was an interesting moment, though, an unscripted, imperfect parenting moment. TV likes to smooth out those rough surfaces with fake perfection, especially those morning tv shows. Everything is 'uplifting', 'inspiring'. That's one of the things I find interesting about Kate. Most parents can't or won't admit to their parenting mistakes; Kate lets us see them.

FIONA said...

Are you attempting to compare Michelle's parenting to Kate's?

I think Michelle Obama's concern for her children and living a normal, uninterrupted life would be a great conversation she should share with Kate.

First Michelle would tell her that children weren't meant to be money makers.

yourmama said...

Kate should home school the kids. Then no one could make comments about them not being in school. If Michelle Duggar can do it with her kids (and she has 18). Then Kate should be able to do it too, with her 8 kids.

Nina Bell said...

Fiona,

Sure Fiona, that is what I was attempting to do.

I wasn't attempting, I was showing that you have different standards for Kate due to your dislike for her.

Now I must go run errands for the day.

Saint said...

So Saint, given your theory of democracy in the G house, if Cara and Mady had opted out, majority rules and they are screwed. Which very well may be the case.

Yes, I agree with that. I don't know how they voted (if that's how it was done.) I can imagine that at some point, if it hasn't happened already, one or two kids might say, I don't want this anymore. They'd be outvoted, because 8 > 2. Now, in our household, we have a big "family decision" to make. Mom and Dad have more weight to their votes, but we are definitely considering very strongly what our children say about the decision. I have a 16 year old, and his perspective is considered differently than my 11 year old's, too. Maybe the Gosselins do something like that? We have to a A decision; we can't make all three. They are exclusive options. We'll decide based on our own opinions, advice from trusted loved ones, and our children's preferences, after months of prayer. I wonder if the Gosselins have done the same thing? I don't always think all their decisions are wise, but I know this: I don't have all the information and I haven't prayed about their decisions.

Fiona, how do you think they decide about these things? Do you think they ask the kids, as they have said? Do you think they pray about it?

Tyra said...

Quote:YOUR reasoning may be fine for kids who live a normal life, but I think the G kids absolutely need some stability.


Again, the word 'normal', what's your definition of this? Allow me to 'opt out' of your definition, if I choose.

I said:

I think that's a distortion of what Kate said about opting out
=======
You replied:

Well, therin lies a huge problem because I think Kate distortes alot of things.

I was talking about Jen K's interpretation of what Kate said. How does it serve a discussion if you further distort it by throwing in a complete non sequitur?

Jen K said...

President of the United States vs Kate Gosselin....hmm, ok....

Can't really make the correlation there. I'm not even sure why that was brought up. Why don't we talk about actual examples rather than implying that those of us who disagree with the choice to take kids out of school "therefore" would also disagree with the Obama kids being at their dad's inauguration.

TV interview about freak mom in California does not equal Presidential Inauguration in my book and it's just a wild inferrence.

Let's just agree to disagree on kids missing school. It seems it would be more fruitful.

scarfoot said...

Ladies, there is a LOT of repetition in school.
There is also a whole body of research supporting doing something different to help retention of information and learning. Please, consider breaking your routines and the routines of your children during the school year. It's good for the mind.


While I do agree that missing school now and then is overall OK, and that there is a lot of repetition at school that just doesn't happen in a homeschooling situation, I do need to throw out there that it is very difficult, and frustrating to provide instruction for a child who is consistently gone for vacations, etc. The parents frequently ask me to send work for their child to do while they are in Jamaica, or skiing, or at Disneyworld. I don't utilize worksheets, or book assignments that often in my classroom. So what happens is that the child is then missing hands-on activities that I cannot send with them, such as science experiments. I then get a student that comes back behind in class, and sore that they missed out on doing something cool.

I fully support a child being able to have varied instruction both inside and outside of the classroom. I completely agree that children should be able to take special opportunities that come, such as going to the inauguration or going on a business trip with dad while he is in Washington, D.C. I just believe that we need to be cautious about messages being sent that it is OK to regularly miss school, and that school isn't a responsibility that needs to be taken seriously. Saint, I don't think you are saying that learning isn't something important or a responsibility. It just makes this poor teacher cringe to see you recommend that children miss school more! I have to deal with this very regularly, and it can be difficult.

Just like anything in life, moderation is the key! Ha!

I just wanted to add my slightly different perspective.

Nina Bell said...

You see Jen that is where I agree with you. We really should not have been discussing this in the first place because we don't even know if they missed school.

That statement regarding the Obamas was brought us to show the rigidity of a statement made earlier.

A wild inference would be stating they were not in school, or stating that because a child states "are we done" it somehow equates to them stating they did not want to participate in the first place.

MoreCowbell said...

Well, actually, aside from possible snow days, the end of January usually marks the end of the semester in a lot of school districts. Last week the local district here had a snow day on Friday and regularly scheduled teacher's in-service on Monday and Tuesday, giving all the kids a nice five day weekend.

So, do we really know if Cara and Mady even HAD school that day? And do the 'tups even go to school five days a week? I thought it was three days a week.

Oh, I'm sure the "advocates" can answer that. I'm sure their resident "no shame privacy invading team" have already called the schools in the Gosselin's town to find out.

Jen K said...


You see Jen that is where I agree with you. We really should not have been discussing this in the first place because we don't even know if they missed school.

That statement regarding the Obamas was brought us to show the rigidity of a statement made earlier.

A wild inference would be stating they were not in school, or stating that because a child states "are we done" it somehow equates to them stating they did not want to participate in the first place.



Perhaps someone then should just post the rules of what we are allowed to talk about and not allowed to talk about. It would certainly eliminate a great deal of confusion, but would also stifle most of the discussion.

EVERYTHING we talk about is speculation here...NONE of us know ANYTHING really. What else shall we talk about then? I thought this was supposed to be a place to discuss the show, our interpretation of things and opinions?

Strange turn of events here today...

Nina Bell said...

Moderation is the key. Exactly. Again, we do not even know if they missed school.

scarfoot said...

I'm not sure Kate's handling of the misbehavior during the interview was really "fury" or even necessarily "imperfect parenting." How was she to handle it? It was a tough situation, because she really couldn't get up and remove Alexis from the situation. I don't really see it as imperfect parenting because she gave Alexis "the look" or because she grabbed her arm. Alexis wasn't responding to Kate. While I didn't see her grabbing her arm as something that was physically painful to Alexis, I can respect that others were offended by it. I still am unsure how else Kate could have handled it. She even stopped the interview for a moment to address issues that were happening on the floor.

In my mind, fury would have been if she went ballistic on Alexis, spanked her in front of everyone, etc. Are non-verbal cues such as giving a child a look, etc. imperfect parenting? Perhaps she could have tapped Alexis on the arm? I'd really like to know what you all would have done to remedy the situation (I don't mean that as an attack, at all).

I am sure that Kate was irritated and anxious for the interview to be over!

Nina Bell said...

Jen K

Well I think you understand how people get annoyed with points brought up that are pure speculation. That are and can be inflammatory. So on this blog, we will question a statement you make.

Kikibee said...

The last time there was a "scandal"
about the kids being out of school
didn't it turn out they had the day off? These interviews weren't arranged in advance (because nobody knew the octuplets were coming) so maybe she brought them because they were out of school.

I wonder if the kids (at least the little ones) were confused with all those interviews going on one after another in the same room.
They are used to cameras being around and since the interviewers weren't in the room they might not have realized when they were "on".

cwats76 said...

Has anyone given thought to the fact that these interviews could have been done in the afternoon AFTER school or on a day off for Cara and Mady (conferences or teacher insitute) or maybe they did the interview and then went to school. I don't think missing a day of school or a few hours of school is that big of a deal/

Jen K said...

I am sure that Kate was irritated and anxious for the interview to be over!


I would have been! :) I've had moments with my son in public places where a 30 second freak out felt like 10 minutes, so I can only imagine.

scarfoot said...

OK, this is my last post because I must get outside and enjoy the 50 degrees - it's been a while!

Anyway, I rewatched the interviews and I wanted to point out something I noticed that no one has said yet. Did you notice how well behaved the boys all were during all three interviews? They sat and played quietly, while the girls, on the other hand...not so much!

marci said...

Can we acknowledge in this discussion the *fact* that kids often act up when they know they *can*??

I imagine Mady's smart enough to know her mom isn't as likely to correct her in front of the cameras or out in public, so that's when she makes her smartalec comments.

Or Alexis...Kate corrected her behavior during the interview and within a few minutes she was acting up again, all the while glancing at Kate to see if mom noticed. They also showed the episode last night where Jodi watched all the kids at the Gosselin house, and Jodi was trying to get Alexis to take something out of her mouth, saying, "That's not food." Alexis, still with the item in her mouth, backs up and gives Jodi a mischievous grin.

What kid hasn't at least attempted to get away with murder because they know their parents or the person watching them is at some disadvantage...because they're out in public or someone doesn't know the rules?

And what parent, after giving a *calmer* warning that didn't work, hasn't given a child who is purposely misbehaving (Alexis), or seeking attention inappropriately (Mady) an earful or corrected the behavior once you're in the car or at home?

Anyway, that's what I saw...bored kids and some testing of the parental boundaries, not some kids being overworked or manipulated.

marci said...

Kikibee said...
I wonder if the kids (at least the little ones) were confused with all those interviews going on one after another in the same room.
They are used to cameras being around and since the interviewers weren't in the room they might not have realized when they were "on".


I agree with this. I think only the twins were aware there was something going on other than they were sitting still for longer than they wanted to.

Tyra said...

Quote:

I thought this was supposed to be a place to discuss the show, our interpretation of things and opinions?

I think it is. Your opinions were challenged; why is that a problem?

Jen K said...

I think it is. Your opinions were challenged; why is that a problem?


I have no problem with my opinion being challenged, but what I do have a problem with is the idea that a topic should or shouldn't even be discussed to begin with which has been an issue a couple of times this week.

But whatever. When the moderators are also actively engaged in the discussion they can decide. That's the advantage to being a moderator and if I wanted it differently I could start my own site (which I know is what the response would be to this comment) which I don't plan to do anyway.

C'est la vie. :)

Florida Mom said...

I don't know if the twins had school that day or not. I agree with JenK that if they missed for an interview about a woman bent on becoming a real life version of "the lady that lived in the shoe"--it was a lame reason.

I don't think the Obama girls seeing their dad make history is a valid comparison.

That having been said, I've let my kids miss school for lame reasons.

I don't think Jen K was trashing Kate, just making an observation.
There is always lots of speculation here.

Those "icky" boys were so good! As the mother of two boys--good job guys!

Nina Bell said...

I by no means was comparing the Obama family to the Gosselin family, just showing the rigidity of this statement - "I also agree about them not missing school except for illness or emergency."

People speculate on this site all the time. I did say speculation that is inflammatory.

Again, my problem with statements like that is that they become fact. That is what we see on the internet over and over again. "They take the kids out of school all of the time for interviews."

In fact, we are already seeing it.

Jen K said...

Those "icky" boys were so good! As the mother of two boys--good job guys!


I agree, I love it when boys get a chance to shine. I have a little boy among nearly all my friends who have girls, and I feel so lucky! I'm very put-off by the way Kate talks badly about the boys from time to time, so whenever someone can catch them doing something good, I say, "rock on!"

Saint said...

I know this is off-topic. I love arguing for taking kids out of school for "different" activities, though. This is my real-life spilling into my blogging-life. (Sorry.)

Scarfoot, I am in a lot of schools. One child in a class missing school several times a year for vacations is an unusual problem. If you have several kids taking vacations more than three times a year, I am surprised. I suppose it happens, I just don't believe it happens normally.

I know it's a pain for the teacher. I am not all that sympathetic to a teacher having to cover the material in another way. My view would shock a lot of people...classroom teachers especially. I just think the "neat" experiences are worth the teacher's extra trouble. Like I said, it's not a popular position. That doesn't make it wrong.

Theresa said...

Jen K said...
I was surprised she could keep her thoughts on track with all of that, but after watching a few of these where the kids are basically saying, "are we done?" "can we go home?" it calls into question what Kate had said that the kids don't have to participate if they don't want to.

I can't remember which interview, but I think one of the boys says something like that and she says, "NO, we're interviewing".

Just kind of demonstrates that the kids don't *really* get to choose what they do and what they don't regarding the show, interviews, appearances and stuff.


There's so much we don't know. For instance, their schedule. Perhaps they were interviewing on a day when they didn't have school or afterschool? I agree they should be in school, but there was a reason they weren't and for people to just assume they were taken out of school isn't right because we don't know if that is indeed the case.

I agree with Tyra regarding normal filming and the opt out rule. A filming day is one thing, and interviews are another. If they family is set to do an interview, and took the whole morning or day traveling to the set in Philly, then you're going to have meltdowns from the kids, who are kids, and will be restless. In fact, on one of them Kate says it's almost snacktime.

Who knows, maybe their travel to the Philadelphia tv station will be on a futre show.

And may I say a big AMEN to Nina Bell...
Nina Bell said...
Fiona,

Sure Fiona, that is what I was attempting to do.

I wasn't attempting, I was showing that you have different standards for Kate due to your dislike for her.

Heather said...

I think Nina is correct, we have no way of knowing they missed school and just by scanning the comments, it seemed like some (don't remember who) acted as if it is fact that they missed school. Private schools often have half days, at least where I live, it could have been a snow day, etc. How far away is Philly from where they live?

As for Mady and the kids behavior, I bet it took a while to set up everything, wait for the taping, etc. They were probably bored by the time it was time to tape. At first, they may have been excited to do the interview. We never know.

PS I am not the Heather that was getting into such an argument in the other thread. I love Jon and Kate :)

Jen K said...

Just some insight into why I have the opinion I do about kids not missing school. I missed about 20 days of school a year for various illnesses. I was always trying to catch up and even if though I was missing school for illness, some teachers still weren't all that enthusiastic about helping me catch up.

Looking at it as an adult, I can understand why teachers feel that way. Many times they are struggling just to get the material covered, deal with many kids in a class and other red-tape issues (testing, etc) that to go back and redo something for someone who's missed class is just tough to fit into the schedule.

Obviously, whether someone lets their kids out of school for a certain reason is their decision to make, it's just that there are consequences to the decision not just for the kid but for the teachers too who are trying to keep all the kids on track.

As the kid who was out sick a lot..wow, no fun trying to stay on top of things. Not to mention the social aspect of missing fun things at school.

It's made me realize that attendance is really important and that maybe some of extras should be done on weekends and school breaks or teacher workshop days. There are two days out of every week without school, usually a week or so for Christmas a week for Spring break and in most districts who still have Summer vacation, three months off. So I personally think that's plenty of time to fit in the extras that I agree can also be educational. But that's just my opinion as a kid who has been there. It wasn't fun missing a day here and there, at least not for me. :)

Liz F said...

Wouldn't it be easier to just tape the interview rather than the family traveling? That way the children wouldn't have to miss school if it was an early morning or afternoon news cast.Just a thought!

Also I think if one of the children want to leave an interview, they should be able to. It is not a family friend or school event the kids are bored at, it is their job and as responsible parents they should let them leave. It doesn't mean Kate needs to stop the interview, but there should be someone there off camera the kids can go to if they feel uncomfortable and want out.

Theresa said...

I'm very put-off by the way Kate talks badly about the boys from time to time

JenK, I don't think Kate talks badly about the boys from time to time. I think Kate was joking and making light when talking about her boys (the whole "boys are icky" comment). If that's what you were referring to, that to me seemed like an in general "boys are icky" regarding boys, but I never ever thought she talked badly about her own boys. We actually had a thread about this a few months ago.

Saint said...

I can understand why teachers feel that way. Many times they are struggling just to get the material covered, deal with many kids in a class and other red-tape issues (testing, etc) that to go back and redo something for someone who's missed class is just tough to fit into the schedule.

Oh, I know I have different standards for teachers than a lot of teachers do. Believe me, I know. I know I am not making any teacher friends this way (though I actually have a lot of teacher friends.)

Somethings, like taping an interview or seeing the inauguration aren't scheduled around the school calendar, despite vacations and days off. Here was a popular "skip day" choice for folks around these parts: lots of kids celebrated with the Phillies at the parade Philadelphia when they won the World Series. See? It's a rigid rule and it should be bent. Like that free day at Disney this year? It's your birthday, not necessarily a weekend or vacation day.

Missing twenty days due to illness is different from a day for taping interviews or a week on a cruise during the winter to celebrate a family milestone.

Jen K said...

Missing twenty days due to illness is different from a day for taping interviews or a week on a cruise during the winter to celebrate a family milestone.


I know 20 days is different from one day, but I was just illustrating where my opinion comes from. And if it's more than one day of interviews, if they did miss school for that, then it could be a problem down the road. But that's if they missed school. As far as I could tell with the morning interviews they looked live, but there is no way of knowing that for sure.

And if there was a snow day, then perhaps they decided at the last minute to bring them to the interview? Could be, who knows? Anyone live in PA? :)

Truth be told, we don't know that they went anywhere. It could have been a remote from their house with a little makeshift studio set put up for the set of interviews. Maybe this thing will be on a future episode showing the behind the scenes and then all questions would be answered.

Miranda said...

I think that Kate looked very pretty, although a little frazzled in the interviews.

I didn't see any "fury" with her when dealing with the kids..she just kind of acted frustrated. It's like Jon once said on one of the shows (I'm not going to exactly quote him because I don't remember the quote) That it's frustrating when you know your kids can act one was and behave another way.

Mady is going to be a lovely teenager. ;) I predict that she and Kate will have their share of arguments because they are so much like each other.

Yay for the boys! They were so well behaved.

Was anyone else kind of shocked at how BIG the kids are getting? They are so cute.

Paula said...

I live in Western PA (Go Steelers)and like I stated in a previous post most of the schools had semester break and a day off. There was also a couple of snow days here in the western part I don't know about the east.

Also the twins go to a private school and the state is more lenient with days belonged and missing school days. Also NCLB is not applicable to private schools in the same way it is to the public ones. I have found that private school teacher deal with this kind of situation more than public school teachers. The teachers and school probably have have an understanding with the Gosselins or maybe not. Like it has been stated we are presuming they are missing school, maybe they aren't.

Miranda said...

I teach in West Virginia and we had three snow days last week...so it's very possible that they had a snow day that day.

Also, I teach in a private school and we do have a lot of children miss more days than in public school, it seems.

Anya said...

I thought Kate was very composed in this interview. There was a lot going on and she held her own and remained poised and professional. She actually seems much more articulate in these type of settings than the couch interviews. Not sure why....

I like how she handled discipling the children. She was firm and clear. When she reached over to Alexis it was simply to get her attention.

Mady was Mady. Happy one second, morose the second.

Jen K said...I agree, I love it when boys get a chance to shine. I have a little boy among nearly all my friends who have girls, and I feel so lucky! I'm very put-off by the way Kate talks badly about the boys from time to time, so whenever someone can catch them doing something good, I say, "rock on!"

Um, personally I don't consider it a contest.

I also don't agree with the broad statement that "Kate talks badly about the boys..." Kate is a known germophobe. I think most of her comments about the boys that may be construed as negative really have to do with her perception that they are dirtier and get into more messes. Obviously, Kate should continue to lighten up about this and, in general, I think both she and Jon should be more open-minded on gender roles, but I get sick of the inference that Kate mistreats the boys. It is not accurate and it is not fair IMO.

Saint said...

Some good points that were brought up:

PA state laws are more lenient with private schools. Public schools have a minimum number of both days and hours in school. For private schools, there is an either/or option.

NCLB rules only apply to public schools (the G's are in a private school.) Also, testing requirements are more flexible.

Private schools have more flexibility if they have a smaller student:teacher ratio. It's easier to make special efforts to accomodate children when there are only ten kids in the class.

We had snow and sleet on Tuesday into Wednesday morning last week (canceling schools on Wed.) and then most local schools opened two hours late on Thursday morning. I believe the G's school district (which is what private schools go by) was in that group...but I honestly wasn't looking for theirs. I look for the ones that affect our family, then enjoy my coffee in peace while the kids sleep in! :)

Saint said...

Maybe this thing will be on a future episode showing the behind the scenes and then all questions would be answered.

Good idea! I like the "behind the scenes" stuff.

Florida Mom said...

I was not implying that Kate doesn't like her boys. She does do a lot of comparing about how the girls are easier, cleaner, and that she doesn't "get" the boys. I know she loves them, but I think she sometimes misses out on all the great things about boys. No, it is not a contest. Kate is an admitted girly girl and often states she doesn't understand the boys. She does hug and love on them. I was just saying there are great things about boys to focus on. No drama. Not a whole lot in the way of moodiness. When the girls all have pms--she will have a whole new appreciation for those out to lunch boys :).

Linda said...

My hubbie was watching FOX News and they are reporting that the mom of the octuplets is unmarried and that she already has 6 other children.

Saint said...

Paula,
When the Steelers win, there will be at least three boys from my daughter's class heading out for the Pittsburgh parade...seven hours away!

Good thing it only happens once every few years.

Nellie said...

I also agree about them not missing school except for illness or emergency.

I guess the Obama girls should have been in school on January 20th 2009.

January 31, 2009 10:04 AM

------------

The Obama girls' entire class was at the inauguration.

Theresa said...

Saint & Paula--With you on the Steelers! Hope it becomes Sixburgh!

I'm sure schools will be missing a lot of kids for the parade/celebration.

GO STEELERS!

Guinevere said...

...just showing the rigidity of this statement...

Nina, I have always admired your rigid-, oh, wait, never mind.

I thought the interviews were great. The kids all looked adorable. The girls (except Cara) were feisty, and the boys were pretty well behaved. Kind of par for the course from what I've seen. Mady and the girl sextuplets seem to have the strongest personalities and the greater tendency to fidget (that may change in a few years - it always seems to me that seven-year-old boys have SO much energy!).

I thought Kate was composed and appropriate in her reprimands. She really does seem to have relaxed quite a lot.

As for keeping Mady and Cara out of school, if this whole kerfuffle isn't a microcosm of what is wrong with the anti-Gosselin rhetoric, I don't know what is. Just to reiterate:

1) We have no idea whether the twins missed school. Sure, we can speculate, but without any information, what is the point? Except to blame Kate for something she may or may not have done.

2) It's none of our business, anyway. Sure, we can have an opinion on acceptable reasons for keeping kids out of school. We can have opinions on whether the interviews were a good reason to keep the twins out of school, if indeed they WERE kept out of school. But the Gosselin kids are not being raised by committee. They aren't being raised by us; they are being raised by Jon & Kate. As such, I don't think even the egregious crime of having the twins miss a day of school really merits the involvement of anyone but them.

It's become more and more clear to me that because of the show and the hatred people feel for J&K, they feel the need/desire to criticize ANY decision the Gosselins make, no matter how small or unimportant. If Mady and Cara hadn't been there, it would've been something else - Hannah's hair was done too tightly, or Alexis was being allowed unrestricted access to a dangerous Slinky, or something. There is nothing that Kate Gosselin can do that some people won't find SOMETHING to criticize in.

Jen K said...

Um, personally I don't consider it a contest.



Neither do I, and I wasn't implying to was, but when you can catch any child doing something right I think it's a great opportunity to point it out and give them praise.

Miranda said...

Guinevere said:
But the Gosselin kids are not being raised by committee. They aren't being raised by us; they are being raised by Jon & Kate.


ITA! But a lot of people think that because J&K chose to have their children in the public eye that that means that every aspect of their life is open to everyone and that J&K will actually care what the crazies have to say.

And, it's true, J&K can't win. If they have Alexis in a room by herself then that is proof that Alexis is unloved and she is being seperated from her siblings because of her uncaring parents.

But THEN...we are told that in the new house that Hannah will have her own room. Is Hannah now the unloved 'tup? NO! This is further proof that Hannah is the golden child and this is favoritism because, obviously, Hannie is Kate's favorite.

I think J&K are doing a great job with the kids (from what I see...and it's only for a half hour on Monday's and is edited) and even if I think they were doing a horrible job (which I don't)--why is it any of my business?

Jen K said...

Paula,
When the Steelers win, there will be at least three boys from my daughter's class heading out for the Pittsburgh parade...seven hours away!


As a Vikings fan, and now Steelers cheerleader, have fun! It's so sad that every year we have to choose a team to cheer for since our darn team never *quite* makes it. :(

rain88 said...

But a lot of people think that because J&K chose to have their children in the public eye that that means that every aspect of their life is open to everyone and that J&K will actually care what the crazies have to say

I believe that whatever is shown will be discussed on a message board or blog somewhere. That's what happens when you put yourself on a TV show; people are going to talk about it.

But, If I disagree with something they've done it's only a matter of discussion; I've never believed that Kate and Jon care one iota about what people on these boards have to say about them. Just because I don't like something Kate does doesn't means that I believe she should change her actions to suit me.

I think J&K are doing a great job with the kids (from what I see...and it's only for a half hour on Monday's and is edited) and even if I think they were doing a horrible job (which I don't)--why is it any of my business?

It isn't your business or mine. But I've never felt like I was interfering in her business because I've given my opinion. I believe it all makes for interesting discussion.

MoreCowbell said...

When the Packers won the Super Bowl, my son was 10 years old. We actually went to Wisconsin to watch the game. So, he missed school the next day. It was the first year since he had the poxy chickens in kindergarten, that he didn't get a Perfect Attendance award at the end of the year, but he was okay with it. How often do you get to celebrate your team winning a Super Bowl with the home state fans?

I must be a terrible parent, right?

Kinley said...

I think the Gosselins are really taking this whole thing a little to far with these precious little kids. Why would anyone humiliate a ittle girl on national tv in front of millions of people? I don't hate the Gosselins, but I really don't think they are thinking of the best interest of the children doing things like that. Some of those children seemed uncomfortable doing that interview in the first place. They commented they wanted to go and were made to stay, and that is not right IMO. I think Mady is feeling the effects of the whole tv thing. She is crying out for help and Kate seems not to listen. Like I said I am not a hater, but I am far from a fan.

hannah said...

Anya,
She did not just reach for Alexis. She very clearly squeezed her arm hard enough for it to be painful, as Alexis was rubbing her arm afterwards. I can't believe some of you are saying Kate handled the discipline herself well during these interviews. It was clearly a disaster, and Kate was obviously embarrassed and uncomfortable throughout. Kids should not be forced to interview. They did not want to be there, and one of them stated as much in the beginning of one interview by saying "I want to go home." Kate's reply: "No, sit down we're interviewing." So much for the cameras being the children's choice.

Anya said...

Kinley said...I think the Gosselins are really taking this whole thing a little to far with these precious little kids. Why would anyone humiliate a ittle girl on national tv in front of millions of people? I don't hate the Gosselins, but I really don't think they are thinking of the best interest of the children doing things like that. Some of those children seemed uncomfortable doing that interview in the first place. They commented they wanted to go and were made to stay, and that is not right IMO. I think Mady is feeling the effects of the whole tv thing. She is crying out for help and Kate seems not to listen. Like I said I am not a hater, but I am far from a fan.

Kinley, I disagree with the idea that any of the children were "humiliated." The behavior we witnessed was pretty typical for 8 and 4 year olds in my opinion.

Yes, you are correct, a couple of the children apparently wanted to go and were made to stay. All across America this weekend, something similar will happen to other children. They will be dragged to church, an aunt's house or a family attraction perhaps more suited to their younger siblings and they will want to go. Your post seems to suggest that children call the shots...correct? Or are there different rules for Kate Gosselin's children?

The Gosselin children are minors and as such, their parents make the decisions for them. It's just how it goes.

Hannah said...Anya,She did not just reach for Alexis. She very clearly squeezed her arm hard enough for it to be painful, as Alexis was rubbing her arm afterwards. I can't believe some of you are saying Kate handled the discipline herself well during these interviews. It was clearly a disaster, and Kate was obviously embarrassed and uncomfortable throughout. Kids should not be forced to interview. They did not want to be there, and one of them stated as much in the beginning of one interview by saying "I want to go home." Kate's reply: "No, sit down we're interviewing." So much for the cameras being the children's choice.

I am not to argue with you *how hard* Kate reached for Alexis' arm. I don't think either of us can really tell from the film anyway. To me, her intent seemed to be to get Alexis' attention. This type of faux concern is why it's so hard for me to take the Gosselin detractors seriously. Get over it, Kate has the right to discipline *her child* as she sees fit. She is most certainly not abusing them.

Further, it was far from a "disaster" as you state.

Lastly, in response to your opinion that the kids did not want to be there, I'll refer you to my response to Kinley on this same topic.

MonicaW42 said...

No matter what this family does they are persecuted. Kate could be Mother Theresa, but the fact she is on tv and getting recognition and freebies makes her Satan to some. It's quite sad. And no I don't think Kate is mother of the year. I also don't think she is a bad mother.

Guinevere said...

I agree with Anya; I didn't see any humiliation occur in any of the posted interviews. I saw some kids fidgeting and some kids whining. Typical kid behavior, on both counts.

I also don't think Kate grabbed Alexis' arm hard. I thought Kate had a bit of an edge in her voice, but it didn't even reach to the level of anger IMO; it was more of an "I mean business" tone of voice. The arm-rubbing struck me as kid-dramatics, no different from Mady wiping her arm disdainfully after Kate touched it. Or did Kate hurt Mady too? Are these kids made of glass?

I feel bad for Kate that she had to wrangle so many fractious kids without Jon's help. I adore the Gosselin kids, but if anyone was suffering, I think it was Kate, not any of them. Though again, I think she handled it with poise; for an obviously high-strung person she has managed to let go a great deal of her need to control her surroundings.

jace said...

Random points.

I feel really bad for Hannah having migraines. Poor thing. I'd have wanted to sit on my mommy's lap too if I had migraines as a child.

I have no problem with kids missing school occasionally for a family event or trip. Life experiences are also good teachers.

Regarding speculation-One of my problems with a couple of websites is not that they speculate but that they take the worst case that they can think of and then act on it as if it were true. They condemn Kate for something they imagine she did. That's unfair and potentially damaging.

Dislike of Kate is what really drives the negativity of this show's blogging world. Many parents on other reality shows have allowed their children to be shown in far more questionable situations than the Gosselins kids have ever been but the harsh judgment is reserved only for Kate because they have a rabid bias against her.

I don't think there should be a different standard for people who are doing exactly the same thing. I'm really glad that there are people here who challenge the assumptions and rumors and bring a much needed reality check to some of the hysteria.

merryway said...

marci said...
Can we acknowledge in this discussion the *fact* that kids often act up when they know they *can*??

I got to see the all the interviews, the CNN was my fav just because the guy seems like such a fan of Kate. I thought he acted sort of smitten which I thought was cute There's many times I can't even talk on the phone without having to YELL at my little one. I'm in total agreement with Marci, children most certainly know when they can get away with stuff or just bug you for fun. They are as rotten as they are lovable. The kids need more of a distraction if they actually expect Kate to be able to discuss anything.

As far as the kids being able to opt out of a shot, that was on their show and I thought that was to what J&K were referring. I remember many boring hours waiting in the store or while my mom was talking,etc. It's just part of being a kid.

Jen K said...


but the harsh judgment is reserved only for Kate because they have a rabid bias against her.


This isn't just for Jace, but I quoted just because you brought it up, but why is it that there is a theory that what she does is critiqued because of a bias against her? What I mean is, why of all of the other people who have reality shows do you (or anyone else) think there is such an extreme bias against Kate specifically?

I'm not asking to be obtuse, because I'm genuinely curious why some people feel there is a bias against Kate rather than just disagreement with things she does and says.

I'll start off by saying that I was a tremendous Kate fan. I discovered the show around the time my son was born and found it to be a nice distraction. I had heard random things about this family in PA from family members that I have in their area, but didn't even know it was the same family until the holidays (2007) when it became a topic of conversation. I was one of the people who was like, "Kate is so organized. Kate is an inspiration" blah blah...

But like many other people, her behavior (things she CHOSE to do on camera) started to rub me the wrong way and that's where the critical eye came from. I had no personal beef with Kate, fertility treatments, etc...

So I'm genuinely curious why there is the assumption by some people that criticism of Kate is based on bias and not simple observation of behavior that they feel is rude or odd or whatever?

Why is there the feeling that people can't simply disagree with her actions? Why does it immediately go to "bias" or "hate"?

Nina Bell said...

Jen K

I am sure you are aware that the issue is not with people that generally disagree with Kate's actions. It is with the people that go one, two or three steps beyond and take it to the next level.

There are quite a few people that frequent this site that disagree with one or more of Kates's actions. But we understand that we are all human with faults.

Jen K said...

Jen K

I am sure you are aware that the issue is not with people that generally disagree with Kate's actions.


Actually, no I'm not aware of that or I wouldn't have asked the question I asked. I'm not speaking of this thread alone, but others where people have expressed their opinions on behavior and if those opinions are negative, rather than disagreeing with the opinion or simply stating a counter-opinion, the tone of the rebuttal can get somewhat caustic. As though to imply that the negative opinion is not valid because someone is a "hater" or whatever.

I participate on many sites on various topics, some which are controversial and some which are less controversial, and while people post opinions and counter-opinions, there is very little of the either implied or blatant attitude of, "no, you're wrong". While someone is always disagreeing with someone, most people on other sites on varied topics don't come right out and call out a specific poster and say, "no, I think you're wrong". There is no right and wrong, just opinions and everyone is free on most sites to just state opinions and counter opinions. I guess what I'm saying is the tone of the rubuttals seems pretty harsh at times.

It seems with a Kate discussion, whether here or elsewhere, there is either a wrong or right answer and depending on which site you are on you are either a "hater" or a "fan" with little room in between.

Just wondering why "bias" or "hatred" comes up so much when I think the great majority of people with negative opinions of something she does are just that...negative opinions of a specific action or attitude and not a generalized hatred.

I don't hate Kate, but yes, there are times I hate what she does (particularly her treatment of Jon which I feel is the most damaging thing she is doing), but that doesn't mean that I am biased against her.

Nina Bell said...

People post here that also post at GWoP. So, I think quite a few of the readers here have also seen the comments posted at GWoP by the same person that is posting here and they are already tuned into what that person really thinks. The tone might be somewhat different here at first. But it usually changes.

Is it fair, I don't know. But it is pretty hard to forget things that people have written on different forums and then try to have a fair discussion here.

If you are posting at GWoP, chances are people are all agreeing with you. Makes it easy.

I read all forums also, I don't see anything different going on.

It always amazes me also how posters can't say one positive thing about Kate or the kids without throwing in the negative. I read every comment on this blog and I see the reverse happening.

Also, we did a thread about this last week. I personally have found myself defending the Gosselins more than I ever thought I would just because the hatred from the other side borders on insanity.


I don't hate Kate, but yes, there are times I hate what she does (particularly her treatment of Jon which I feel is the most damaging thing she is doing), but that doesn't mean that I am biased against her.

In my opinion, you are a rare breed.

Paula said...

Saint... as of Friday they still weren't sure if they were going to have a victory parade because of safety concerns. Seems they had some close calls after the last one. Some people have to ruin a good thing.

Paula said...

One more thing about the Steelers... The city of Pittsburgh schools have already called a 2 hour delay so that faculty, staff and students can make it back from Tampa. I have a feeling the High Schools will be empty anyway.

Nina Bell said...

Right after I finished my last response, I received this comment:
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Videos":

Jon and Kate are annoying. Period. Jon walks around with his tail between his legs, and does whatever the nasty queen tells him to do.
Kate...well, Kate lives in her own little narcissistic world. She is not letting anyone choose whether or not they want to do this, she is TELLING them they have to. Mady can't stand her, and it's showing already. They are going to be resentful when they get older, especially the girls.
I hope they put something away for a rainy day, because their 15 minutes is dwindling.


We get a lot of this. IMO, I do not feel this comes from just a general dislike of Kate. It comes from something deeper.

Jen K said...

Is it fair, I don't know. But it is pretty hard to forget things that people have written on different forums and then try to have a fair discussion here.


Call me crazy, but when people are engaged in a thoughtful discussion on one board, and that discussion is limited to the thought and opinions of those people right there, that should be more than enough to base a conversation on.

And if someone participates on another board, A. That doesn't mean they agree with everything that goes on there, B. They (I) might be doing so because the lightheartedness of the some of the conversations is refreshing and C. It's the poster's business what they write elsewhere, so if someone is actively looking for 'counter-intelligence' on a poster on another board (not saying you are, but I know there was mention of someone doing Google searches to see what someone was posting elsewhere) then that's a bit creepy.

Of course, anyone can be anyone on these sites. You can make up 12 different names and have 12 different opinions, but what should be paramount in my opinion is that the discussion at hand and allowing opinions to flow without making blanket statements about someone's overall attitude toward the subject matter.

Kinley said...

I still think it was wrong to be MADE to film that interview. I agree totally that sometimes a child has to do things they do not want to in the normal world, but these children are being made to do something a lot different than a visit to church etc.. This is their privacy. Listen I used to be one of J&K's biggest fans,and would defend them to anyone, but enough is enough already. I figured out that just because I loved the show didn't make it right for the kids to be violated in some instances. No matter what happens, I really hope everything turns out ok for the kids.

FIONA said...

And may I say a big AMEN to Nina Bell...
Nina Bell said...
Fiona,

Sure Fiona, that is what I was attempting to do.

I wasn't attempting, I was showing that you have different standards for Kate due to your dislike for her.

January 31, 2009 2:16 PM

--------

Actually, neither one of you know how I feel about Michelle Obama. But to say that I have different standards for the first Lady of our country and Kate Gosselin, that would be a great big YES!

Nina made a bad analogy.

My point was that Jon and Kate should not disrupt the chuldren's schooling-period. I don't know if they had a day off on that day or not, I just know that they have missed school on other occasions for their job and that I do not agree with.

mariel said...

I'm a fan of the show, I like Kate, and I believe that she and Jon have every right to continue their show BUT I have always felt uncomfortable with the interviews the kids get dragged to where they are like living and breathing displays. I don't think making the kids do these interviews is the equivalent of going to church or visiting an aunt or something like that. IMO it's more like forcing a kid to participate in an activity they have no interest in. I don't think it's a necessity for them to be there and they'd be better off staying home and being entertained somewhere off camera. That way we the audience can hear what Kate has to say. She can be very well spoken and should be heard, especially since these interviews were about adult topics with discussing the octoplets mother.

If Jon and Kate think doing these interviews is a good thing for their kids then so be it. They would know a whole lot better than the rest of us and we don't know the before and after of what goes on with these things. It's just my opinion based on what I see in these recent interviews and also the others like the Regis and Kelly show, which was when I first noticed how uncomfortable this scenario is.

These interviews give me a squicky feeling the show itself doesn't. Not much of an argument I know and believe me I'm not prepared to debate how I feel amongst debating champs like Guin and Saint. It's just how I feel.

Elizabeth said...

I am a elementary school teacher, and really want to throw in my two cents on the topic of missing school. I don't think that alot of people realize the effect that absences have on a child's education. My school board just devoted an entire school day to at-risk students (these are studnets who perform below the standard). The 2 things that had the biggest impact on student performance are attendance and gender. as teacher's we truly believe that EVERY child can learn and acheive "B"'s and when they don't you often find that attendance was a huge factor. I had a student who just returned from a 1 week family trip to England. What a great life experience, yes!!! BUT she returned from this trip unable to read, add, subtract, and unable to connect with her classmates on a social level. The point being, absences, whether they are for a day or a week or more affect what goes on in the classroom. Anyways...I guess what I am trying to say is...when you are a young child, the worst thing that can happen to your education is having repeated lates and absences. tehre are actually many studies that will show this!

jace said...

I do think there is a definite bias toward Kate. And I commented on it because of the conversation about negative speculation about the Gosselins. I don't think that everyone who dislikes/disagrees with the Gosselins are haters. Some are quite rational people. :)

But there are folks who have posted on this blog and elsewhere who are determined to see every action in the worst possible light because they don't like Kate for whatever reason. There is a palpable hatred out there for her that exceeds a disagreement about her actions and is directly at her personally. They don't judge her actions so much as the perceived motives behind them. The perceptions are, of course, from their own minds.

I think that's where we have to be so careful to be responsible about what we put out there. Anything negative about Kate is taken as gospel. How many people have taken their outrage to extremes based on something they read that started as a rumor and is now accepted as the truth? Folks are inserting themselves into these people's lives and trying to interfere with them because they got fired up by what they read which may or may not have a basis in fact.

Nina Bell said...

Fiona

Maybe in your mind, but not mine. My point was that everyone has their own priorities when it comes to their children and the parent is the best person to decide along with the school staff. You made a statement that in my opinion was very rigid and in my opinion there could be many reasons for a child missing school that could be acceptable.

Jen K,

Ok, I will call you crazy. There is not "counter-intelligence" here or anywhere else. Let's be honest. We read GWoP and they read here. It would be dishonest of me or anyone else to say that what you say on another forum would not weigh on my mind when you are posting here.

Creepy? We could have a very long discussion of what is truly creepy in this blogging world, but that is for a different post.

I also did not post your last comment, because quite frankly you have made this a post about what we do wrong here and I am done with that.

Lizabeth said...

http://www.multichannel.com/article/173438-It_s_Hard_Keeping_Up_With_Gosselins.php

Just found this-- it explains why everything has been happening this week for Jon and Kate. Apparently ALL news outlets have been trying to get ahold of them. From what I can see, it appears Kate and the kids were able to do one set of interviews from Philadelphia (same set, etc for all the interviews listed here) probably in a short period of time to deal with all the people asking for their opinion. From what I can tell, it seems like the Gosselins found a way to do some interviews they were asked for (the Access Hollywood clips were clearly outtakes from the interview their station held) on their own time table and pretty much on their own turf. In my opinion, this was way better than taking the kids all over the place for the interviews requested-- it was done all at once, most likely in a couple of hours one morning, in rapid fire succession.

At least from what I can see, it looks like Jon and Kate were able to do their part for their PR people and TLC without compromising their kids schedule more than absolutely necessary (i.e. in Philly instead of in New York for a couple of days or wherever else these interviews would have had to take place).

Jen K said...

You are free to let through whichever comments you want wish. As a moderator that is your right and your privilege.

Nina Bell said...

Jen K

I started this blog and I am the blog owner. But thanks for your permission.

Quiltart said...

Jace, I agree. There is definitely something deeper that causes people to have such a violent hatred of Kate.

IMO, Despite their claims to the contrary, the people who are so against Kate are jealous, because she is an outspoken, beautiful, blessed, successful and STRONG woman. Jon and Kate only want to give their kids the best life they can, and they have found a way to make it work. They are making their own way and I say, "More power to them!"

Instead of turning everything into a negative, perhaps these people need to be a bit more introspective about why they have such a palpable hatred of someone they know only from TV. Some part of this puzzle is definitely missing!

jace said...

Hi Elisabeth,

I taught elementary school as well. I agree that kids who repeatedly miss school are going to have problems keeping up. The key word is occasionally. And only if the parents take on the responsibility of helping the students keep up. I firmly believe that parents are ultimately accountable for their children's education. I'm a radical. :)

And a trip to England? oh my goodness yes, I would so take my kids out of school for that. The history and culture, oh yes. :) But we would be drilling math or whatever along the way.

Florida Mom said...

Nina Bell,
I had no idea that you get those kind of anonymous post routinely. I have felt that sometimes this site can get a little defensive, but if I had to read all the hatred you get from anonymous sources, I'd probably be more defensive of the Gosselins. Thanks for trying to keep things on the high road. It could easily become a mudslinging contest.

Anya said...

Lizabeth said...
http://www.multichannel.com/article/173438-It_s_Hard_Keeping_Up_With_Gosselins.php


Thanks, Lizabeth. That article is quite enlightening. One thing I have not give a lot of thought to before is the pressure Jon & Kate might get from TLC to fulfill certain publicity commitments.

mariel said...I'm a fan of the show, I like Kate, and I believe that she and Jon have every right to continue their show BUT I have always felt uncomfortable with the interviews the kids get dragged to where they are like living and breathing displays. I don't think making the kids do these interviews is the equivalent of going to church or visiting an aunt or something like that. IMO it's more like forcing a kid to participate in an activity they have no interest in. I don't think it's a necessity for them to be there and they'd be better off staying home and being entertained somewhere off camera. That way we the audience can hear what Kate has to say. She can be very well spoken and should be heard, especially since these interviews were about adult topics with discussing the octoplets mother.

Mariel, you make some solid points. I agree my analogy of going to an aunt's house isn't perfect. Personally, I kind of like seeing the kids, but if J&K decided it wasn't in their best interest, I would totally be ok with that as well. In situations that aren't 'black and white', I defer to the parents judgment. That said, as per my comments above, they probably do get pressure to bring the kids along, even though the interview would be smoother without them. I don't know that I have totally made up my mind on this one....You got me thinking. :-)

Tyra said...

Quote:
I guess what I'm saying is the tone of the rubuttals seems pretty harsh at times.

If you think that the responses here to your comments were harsh, then you must not have spent any time at TWoP :-) Truly, I did not see anything caustic or harsh in the responses to you. Everyone on this thread, of whatever opinion, has been polite. There were some strong responses,and some mild sarcasm (which you made use of also), but in a debate, what do you expect?

Two things that I'll just give my honest impression of: 1) When someone starts complaining about the response they're getting to their opinions, my main thought is that they have run out of arguments to support their original point. 2)Some of your posts reveal a disingenuous tone. Have you been candidly expressing your full and honest opinion, or have you been playing a game? I am being straightforward in telling you that the second impression is what I was getting.

FIONA said...

Anya,

I do wonder if it is in their contract that the kids have to attend a certain amount of interviews? I would guess that it is....

And Mariel,

I do agree that the kids were just props during these interviews and it was all just for PR purposes.

I don't think Kate wanted to reach out to this woman...it was just a Tender Loving Care moment to further promote the show.

Saint said...

A child who visits Engalnd for a week and then returns "unable to read, add, subtract, and unable to connect with her classmates on a social level," is extremely unusual! What does she do over the summer???!!!! Or even just the winter break? Yikes! I'd like to see some documentation on that claim. It's so unusual I'd like to look at this child for a case study. The claim is unbelievable.

When a school district "devoted an entire day to at-risk students" they were not talking about children like the Gosselins taking a family vacation in the middle of a semester. That "entire day" was devoted to failing students who miss school for entirely different reasons that can be classified as truancy. It's not the same thing. At. All. (Or they would be negligent for taking an entire day out of the school year to do so.)

There are NOT a lot of studies supporting the conclusion that missing school for an excursion to a TV studio or a trip to Disney or England or a Philadelphia museum will hamper learning. There just aren't.

FIONA said...

Saint,

I think it isn't about hampering the learning process for the G kids. It is about disrupting a part of their life that should remain constant.

Saint said...

Oh.
I guess I just disagree that school should remain constant just so that it's constant.

There are lots of people who feel as you do, Fiona (my mom.) I don't think it hurts to keep kids in school 180/180 days.

You know what would be fun? If the twins could bring a friend along to see the studio/interview experience. If I had a child in their class, I'd try to get Kate to include my child for the learning experience. What a cool field trip!

I understand the objections to doing these interviews for the kids, even though they may not want to. I know that if they were weekly, I'd say it was too much. I just don't know that it happens that frequently, and it can be a "learning experience" or fun for the family. I am not surprised that some of them really get bored by it or even that some "hate" going. I just don't think it's a big deal...not this.

I enjoyed seeing the kids, those behaving and those squirming. (I just sat through a basketball game this afternoon and enjoyed watching a preschool boy give his dad a bit of a hard time with his squirming around. I like little kids and their "little kid ways.") I thought Kate handled it all just fine, and I am glad she's not so easily upset (ice cream at Disney.)

Elizabeth said...

Well, Saint since you clearly know the education system inside out, you also clearly know the age of my student and the background of my student. I'll let her age, which you clearly know, speak for itself. Clearly their is a huge difference between a 13 year child who has 75 months of education to his credit versus a 6 year old who has 16 months of 1/2 day education, prior to an extended vacation.

As to making her a "case study" that would NEVER happen because it takes place in LOTS of schools every day. As for your idea that there are no studies that support the idea that school attendance, gender, and socio-economic status are not the single most significant predictors of school success, where are you looking? On the internet? What academic researchers are you looking up? Stiggins? Booth? Why do you think that school boards employ attendance counsellors? Certainly not just because it is fun!!! It is because they serve a valuable service.

As for my student who experienced a trip to England, since you clearly know and understand all about early lietracy acquisition, I'll tell you that her last running record (and you KNOW how often they are taken) was a level 5 at 91% accuracy. Upon her return, her running record score was level 3 at 78% accuracy. Now you know what a level 3 is, clearly so you know what that implies. You also know her age and you know what that means for a child her age. You also clearly know and understand the demographics of the school that she attends....and well, I know that you get the picture.

The point was not to bring up my specific students and the unique and specific acdemic concerns. The point was to attemtp to open some people's eyes to the idea that lates and absences really do affect student performance.

Saint said...

Is the access Hollywood link working? It's not the behind the scenes look at Kate and the kids that we saw yesterday.

Kinley said...

IMO, they have pulled the video because it made Kate look bad. I am just speculating and don't know that is what happened, but it seems when people start talking about a certain video or comment, it soon gets pulled off the net. If you are not doing anything wrong why not just let it stay there?

Paula said...

I don't think it was pulled because it made Kate look bad. I think it was pulled because people were leaving their hate comments, and Access Hollywood didn't want to put up with the nonsense.

yourmama said...

It looks like Accesss Hollywood has pulled the video. Maybe Kate or Jon requested that it be pulled. Perhaps Jon and Kate PR team saw way to many negative things being said and they pulled it. It's just strange. Something's not right.

Theresa said...

Actually, neither one of you know how I feel about Michelle Obama. But to say that I have different standards for the first Lady of our country and Kate Gosselin, that would be a great big YES

Fiona, I was agreeing with Nina Bell regarding your dislike for Kate, not the Michelle Obama comment you made. Most often, you slyly write a line regarding or insinuating the fact that you don't care for her or her parenting. To me, that's pretty insulting all the time. Just give it a rest. Sure, Kate's not the most perfect parent, but there isn't one person on this Earth who is the perfect parent.
________________________


As for the Access Hollywood video being pulled, who really knows why. Perhaps their webmaster put made it active only for a certain time frame. Or, maybe there was a request on behalf of the Gosselins and/or TLC to pull it, out of respect for Mady.

mariel said...

The video is still up on You Tube. Access Hollywood owns the rights to that video and that outfit most definitely would not pull it out of respect or for any kind of moral reason. They love it when things like Mady speaking up happen. While the other interviewers did their best to make light of Mady's attitude and lessen the awkwardness, AH chose to do a smarmy voiceover showing Mady's greatest hits. I'm surprised Jon and Kate's PR team allowed them on that show. Because it's not live they can edit and spin things anyway they want and this time they went negative. Hopefully Jon and Kate will ban AH and other tabloid shows like it and stop bringing the kids. They must have some clout. I would hate to think Jon and Kate signed away their rights to the point where their family can be tugged this way and that at the mercy of shows like Access Hollywood.

tintin said...

A thought: hope next time they will set up kind of a playroom they can run and play all over. The camera can then pan over them playing instead of requiring them to sit still by Kate, which can get really tedious for any child. I don't know how long they were sitting there, but a room with toys would have held their interest better.

It would still have been visually compelling, I think.

Anya said...

Tintin, I had a similar thought. Thanks for expressing it.

Maybe there can be a compromise - less interviews that involve the kids, but when they do appear have them off the main set as you suggest.

Saint said...

Sorry Elizabeth,
I caught the tone of your comment and the first three spelling errors and gave up. I can't read the rest of it.

Saint said...

I would hate to think Jon and Kate signed away their rights to the point where their family can be tugged this way and that at the mercy of shows like Access Hollywood.

Me too. That would be unwise.

Anya said...

Theresa said...
Saint & Paula--With you on the Steelers! Hope it becomes Sixburgh!


Looks like it might just go that way!

Entertaining game so far. My favorite - the halftime show. I have loved Bruce for twenty five years!

Yep, I'm old...!

Anya said...

Theresa said...
Saint & Paula--With you on the Steelers! Hope it becomes Sixburgh!


Looks like it might just go that way!

Entertaining game so far. My favorite - the halftime show. I have loved Bruce for twenty five years!

Yep, I'm old...!

Saint said...

Oh there will be so many happy campers around tomorrow if they keep this up!

Paula said...

Anya said... Yep, I'm old...!

Join the club. I've loved Bruce for as long and had the Born to Run album. Pittsburgh is going crazy ! I hope there isn't any violence. The college kids take thimgs too far sometimes.

The game was a real nail biter. Probably one of the best Supeer Bowls.

Nina Bell said...

Congratulations to the Steelers

Guinevere said...

This isn't just for Jace, but I quoted just because you brought it up, but why is it that there is a theory that what she does is critiqued because of a bias against her? What I mean is, why of all of the other people who have reality shows do you (or anyone else) think there is such an extreme bias against Kate specifically?

Kate isn't unique in that regard - not at all. If you go to TWOP (which is the site I'm most familiar with, but I would guess that there are dozens of message boards with a similar mentality), you will see that just about every female to appear on a reality show is hated. Okay, slight exaggeration, but the vast majority of them are. With males, opinion is a little more varied, but on "snarky" message boards dealing with reality tv, where the majority of posters are women, the majority of female personalities are disliked. Often with a great deal of bile, particularly if they are attractive and confident. You throw in the motherhood angle (unfortunately, another thing women tend to be very judgmental about), and I think you have part of the explanation of why she gets so much crap. But again, she is hardly the only one. Look at the Rachael Ray and Elisabeth Hasselback haters. They get the same sort of comments, down to the speculation and hopes that their husbands are cheating on them.

I'll start off by saying that I was a tremendous Kate fan. I discovered the show around the time my son was born and found it to be a nice distraction. I had heard random things about this family in PA from family members that I have in their area, but didn't even know it was the same family until the holidays (2007) when it became a topic of conversation. I was one of the people who was like, "Kate is so organized. Kate is an inspiration" blah blah...

It's funny you mention that, because it seems to be a common experience. I don't think most of the people who like Kate view her that way. There seems to be some correlation between putting Kate on a pedestal and taking an extreme dislike to her. Again, I don't think those of us who still like her built her up so much, so perhaps we have less reason to take it personally when her behavior is disappointing? In any case, since there seem to be so many instances of extreme love turning to extreme hate, I'm afraid I have to say that I think it has more to do with the poster than with Kate.

Anya said...

Congrats to the Steelers fans! I think both teams should be proud, they put on a great show.

Paula, LOL. Glad to meet a fellow fan. When I got into Bruce, albums were just starting to go out, I got a couple, but then switched to cassettes, of course. Then came CD's, so of course, I had to buy quite "albums" all over again! Now, I buy everything through I-tunes, so for some songs, that's the 4th time I have bought! That's ok, Bruce is worth it. He put on a great show too. I love his sense of humor and the way he works the whole band, especially Patti, Clarence and Little Steven into the shows.

SamanthaNC said...

As far as absences go my daughters school has an interesting policy. As long as absences arent excessive and nothing *major* is going on they totally support taking a child out if there family has an opportunity to experience something exciting/educational.

My daughter is young so for her age group if they write a few sentences and draw a picture about their experience it's excused. So far we've done this once, she missed one day, and I would never abuse this policy. Our family had a 3 day weekend away in a historic town and it was awesome. She loved telling her class all about it. Not the same things as the Gosselin situation (we don't even know what they've missed) I'm just adding our situation to the mix.

I missed so much in 2 days! So much I want to comment on but there's not enough time :)

BGR said...

I have already commented on this blog that I do not understand why it is necessary for all eight of the Gosselin children to be present for these interviews. Kate's comments are just as valid or invalid without them being physically present. To compare them having to sit for interviews to having to visit family or participate in other family commitments in not valid. It is not the same at all. I am sure at Grandma's house they are not forced to sit still in one place in front of cameras and can verbalize their feelings. They are not little machines and should not be treated as such. I agree that the Gosselins have every right to make whatever decisions they want concerning their family but it would be nice to see them not treat the children as props.

GLO said...

Since it keeps being brought up, I will but my two cents in regarding school absences.

Missing school should be kept to a minimum. In this era of education, when rote learning should be at a bare minimum and cooperative learning and differentiated activities should be the norm, missing school impacts the student's learning.

Everyday in my classroom, there are multiple learning opportunities that cannot be "made-up." Worksheets and book assignments cannot make up the learning experiences that occur in the classroom.

That being said, there are valid opportunities for students that require missing school. It is up to the parents to make the decision whether or not that opportunity is valid.
-On a side note, every year one of our school board member's children miss the first two days of school because of their family's participation of showing hogs at the state fair, miss two to three days before winter break (and have to make up semester exams after break), take a two-week vacation during February, and miss multiple other days helping around the farm. Are these valid reasons? Not for me to say, but I will say that all of the children are behind their peers in the major areas of learning.

Another thing that drives me nuts as a teacher is spending considerable amounts of time getting a student's work together (usually involves creating alternate activities for what is missed in class) before the student leaves (per parental request), and the student comes back from vacation with nothing done! Then it is nag, nag, nag for weeks in order to get the work done. What a pain!

Sorry for the extended rant--I am on a tear today.

FIONA said...

Theresa,

I have never been sly about my feelings for Kate, and no, I won't give it a rest. It is my opinion I am stating. It is not your place to stifle that.

Thanks.

Guinevere said...

To compare them having to sit for interviews to having to visit family or participate in other family commitments in not valid. It is not the same at all. I am sure at Grandma's house they are not forced to sit still in one place in front of cameras and can verbalize their feelings.

Okay, how about the comparison (that was also made) of being taken to church? Where a child is usually expected to sit still and does not have the opportunity to "verbalize their feelings" (which the Gosselin children did do, in the interviews, by the way)?

The point that you are missing is that children get taken to places that they don't want to be by their parents ALL THE TIME, and are expected to behave themselves. People generally don't compare it to "torture", as I've seen the interviews called.

They are not little machines and should not be treated as such. I agree that the Gosselins have every right to make whatever decisions they want concerning their family but it would be nice to see them not treat the children as props.

I see no evidence that they are treated as machines. Again, sometimes kids have to go to places they don't want to go and do things they don't want to do. I don't think Kate sees them as props, though maybe those that arranged for the interviews do - I can see how they various stations that interviewed them would like the visual of all of the kids.

It's occurred to me that if Jon wasn't around that day (I don't know if he was or not, but it would explain his absence in the interviews), then Kate took the kids with her to Philly because she needed to - she couldn't or didn't want to arrange for child care at the last minute. If that's the case, maybe it didn't seem like a big deal from their to just have them on camera (and I don't see it as a big deal, but I also don't get the torture comparisons).

BGR said...

Guinevere, as far as the church comparison goes, when my children were that age and went to church we had items to occupy them and they were free to move around the seat and get comfortable. Also, I could easily justify to them why we went to church. I expect that the rationale for the interviews was mainly financial. The point I was trying to make is that Kate may have valid things to say on the topic of multiples but it does not require the presence of all of the children lined up, yes like props, for them to be said. Granted, she may not have had options for leaving them at home but surely there must be times when the answer has to be no in the best interests of the children. If, indeed, the rationale was financial then I hope that the time soon comes when the answer may be no, enough is enough.

Kuromi said...

I finally found the Access Hollywood clip on YouTube (by the time I got around to clicking the link, they'd swapped for some shaggy French dude).

The quote attributed to Mady has been incomplete. After asking Kate not to "boss" her, Mady said, "I'm not a baby anymore!" That shows not a disdain or hatred of her mother, but rather a dislike of being "treated like a baby"--rather common between mothers and daughters, even when the latter is in her 30s :)

And she didn't say she hated the family's lifestyle; she was talking about the 'tups being noisy and not listening to her, and that "sometimes they give me their food." I wasn't sure if that last bit was a negative or a positive.

bigsis88 said...

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think some interviewers ask the kids (especially Mady) questions about Kate being a good mom because they have seen her (Mady) on tv (and subsequently characterized her as the "defiant" one) and want to provoke her into saying no, for drama. That just seems like a weird question to ask a young child, whose opinion on whether Mommy is "good" may rest solely on whether she got an extra popsicle after lunch. I think a much better question would be, "Isn't XYZ with Mommy fun?" or "What do you like to do with Mommy?" That question arises too much to be a coincidence, IMO.
Happy Groundhog Day! =)

PS. News outlets are saying the mom of the octuplets plans to have a talk show about parenting, and they have confirmed that she conceived all 14 with drugs. I really don't like the sound of this...

Theresa said...

FIONA said...
Theresa,

I have never been sly about my feelings for Kate, and no, I won't give it a rest. It is my opinion I am stating. It is not your place to stifle that.

Thanks.

February 2, 2009 1:57 PM


I never said you were sly nor sly about your feelings for Kate. I said you always slyly throw in a jab at Kate just because you don't like her and think she and Jon are exploiting their children. There's a difference. Perhaps you should re-read what I wrote.

I find it insulting that no matter what we are talking about, there's Fiona's jab at Kate because you dislike her. It gets old.

I'm sure a lot of others are tired of seeing you be immature by doing that all the time. We know how you feel. Do we always have to see your “opinions" of putting down this mom? She’s not perfect, but neither are you or any of us.

An opinion is one thing, a direct jab at someone is another (even at a person who put herself out in the public by choice) and to do it continuously is insulting and tiring. Also, there’s a difference with “critiquing” and statements that are apparent of your disklike. It gets old Fiona.

FIONA said...

Theresa,

I write my thoughts and opinions just like everyone else does.

Did you ever stop to think that I think others people's comments of support to Kate are insulting to me? That I think what alot of what is written here is blind love of Kate?

You have your right to feel about Kate what you choose without me saying to you, "you know, that is getting really old Theresa, give it a rest"....

Last I knew this blog allowed both side of the coin, if something has changed I would like to know.

Theresa said...

Fiona, perhaps I wasn't clear. The insulting part is not towards me...it's actually towards a mother who's doing her best to raise 8 kids. By constantly jabbing at her, that's insulting and along the lines of blog bullying. The way you do it is in a subtle way. Still bullying.

Did you ever stop to think that I think others people's comments of support to Kate are insulting to me? That I think what alot of what is written here is blind love of Kate?
This has nothing to do with insulting you Fiona. I don't think a lot is blind love of Kate. If that's what you think it is, well, that's your thoughts. I think a lot of us identify and know where Kate is coming from and get her sense of humor. We relate better to her than you. A lot of us like her. I don't think a lot of us have a blind love of her.

You have your right to feel about Kate what you choose without me saying to you, "you know, that is getting really old Theresa, give it a rest"....

Fiona, I don't put the woman down at every chance I get. If I did, I would certainly want someone to let me know that perhaps I should give it a rest. Wow, I really touched a nerve with you on that. Could it be because you know it's wrong to constantly make swipes at a fellow mom?


Last I knew this blog allowed both side of the coin, if something has changed I would like to know.

You are correct. But, a lot of us at least have a respect for the parents of the G kids. We don't intentionally make swipes at Kate, whether we like her or not.

Perhaps Guinevere's repsonse to you on the New Episode-the Big Move thread says it better...

I'm calling as I see it. If I tried to claim that I really didn't like Kate would people believe me?

The fact is, almost every post of yours is either outright hostile to Kate, or something nice about the kids with a passive-aggressive swipe at Kate tacked on. You rarely seem to be able to get through a post without bitching about her. So yeah, I think you hate her. It sure looks like extreme dislike to me.

FIONA said...

You have respect for her I don't. That is your right, as it is mine.

===================================

You have your right to feel about Kate what you choose without me saying to you, "you know, that is getting really old Theresa, give it a rest"....

Fiona, I don't put the woman down at every chance I get. If I did, I would certainly want someone to let me know that perhaps I should give it a rest. Wow, I really touched a nerve with you on that. Could it be because you know it's wrong to constantly make swipes at a fellow mom?

-----------------------------------

The only nerve you touched is your own. In the grand scheme of things in my life, blogging about Kate Gosselin is a blip, it is fun and entertainment. She is not a fellow anything to me, maybe she is to you and if so maybe you identify with her a little TOO much.


If I think she deserves what you call a swipe, I guess I will give it. But I will think my own thoughts and give them.

If my words are too harsh for you, perhaps you should skip over my posts. Just a suggestion.

rain88 said...

Theresa said: I'm sure a lot of others are tired of seeing you be immature by doing that all the time.

I don't think Fiona is being immature and I'm not tired of seeing her comments. Disliking someone doesn't make them immature. Even Kate doesn't seem to care one bit that people comment on her behaviour.

We know how you feel. Do we always have to see your “opinions" of putting down this mom? She’s not perfect, but neither are you or any of us.

We also know how Guin feels and how Saint feels. It doesn't mean they should stop posting. I still enjoy reading what they have to say even though I do have an inkling what they might say on any given episode.

It's a difference of opinion; you love Kate, Fiona doesn't.

FIONA said...

Rain,

Thanks for the insightful comment.

Lizabeth said...

Rain, I think thats the crux of the matter-- we all have our own feelings and while it does get frustrating to have some posters constantly harping on the same issues it would also be a pretty boring blog if everyone believed the same way.

Theresa, I totally see where you're coming from and why you would be put off about things Fiona has said. You're entitled to that just like she is entitled to say what she wants and just like we moderators are entitled to reject comments we feel are not fit for the discussion :).

Fiona, I think that now like in the past its just in the way you can come across... everyone has a different style and some may not "get" yours (just like Kate has her own style and some people do not quite grasp this). Doesn't make it a right vs. wrong battle for the last word, but it does mean there is more room for misunderstandings and tension.


OK back to the topic at hand :). I think Kate must have had some coaching on her public speaking skills-- she has seemed much more comfortable lately in front of the camera and like she can really relate to interviewers more than before (thinking back to the Kmart stuff around Christmas that was just awkward to watch). Good for her, though-- like I've said before, this is a way for her and Jon to have a livelihood outside of the kids being on TV so while their career may have started with the show, they are making the best of the situation for their long term goals. They know it won't last forever and want to be prepared for that. Can't blame them for thinking ahead.

Nina Bell said...

I know that the people involved in this back and forth feel very strongly about their opinions on this matter.

Instead of talking about it on different threads, we could either move on or make it a sound off or face off on a separate post.

Let me know what you would like.

FIONA said...

Fiona, I think that now like in the past its just in the way you can come across... everyone has a different style and some may not "get" yours (just like Kate has her own style and some people do not quite grasp this). Doesn't make it a right vs. wrong battle for the last word, but it does mean there is more room for misunderstandings and tension.
------

I agree and I don't get other people's thinking at times at well. As far as how I come across, I try very hard to be respectful...I have not called anyone immature and I think your comment is just a backdoor approach to put down how I personally feel about things. The way I come across Lizabeth is honest. I don't sugar coat it, but I don't rip her (Kate) a new one either.

FIONA said...

Moving on his fine with me.

Theresa said...

The only nerve you touched is your own. In the grand scheme of things in my life, blogging about Kate Gosselin is a blip, it is fun and entertainment. She is not a fellow anything to me, maybe she is to you and if so maybe you identify with her a little TOO much.


If I think she deserves what you call a swipe, I guess I will give it. But I will think my own thoughts and give them.

If my words are too harsh for you, perhaps you should skip over my posts. Just a suggestion.
______________

Sigh.

Fiona, I normally do reserve myself and not respond to your posts because I do think they only show how you don't like her and there is that backhanded swipe. The woman can do no right in your eyes, no matter how well she has done. Fine.

After one too many times seeing the backhanded comments, I voiced my opinion on giving it a rest. That touched YOUR nerve and thus the back and forth.


Let's respectfully agree to disagree and move on. I don't have time to have to argue a point with you, especially when you retort with lame repsonses. This is just silly.