Well now we know for sure that another season is on the way! I have seen a few similar articles that speculate on Jon and Kate's marriage as well due to the new season. I also read somewhere that during a break between seasons they were able to have some time together to work on their marriage which is encouraging.
They have made a choice for their family, and while it is not one I would make at least we know there are more privacy measures in place and the cameras are around far less than they were in the beginning.
Liza Beth said...They have made a choice for their family, and while it is not one I would make at least we know there are more privacy measures in place and the cameras are around far less than they were in the beginning.
So this will be the season J&K will be producers - is that correct?
I don't really have a problem with a season five. There are some things I would change to reduce the stress on the family, but that is their call - not mine.
I will watch. I have made the investment. I'd like to see the six getting ready for kindergarten.
After that, a special or two every year would nice, but that will depend on how the family feels.
There was no doubt that they were coming back for a 5th season. I'm disappointed but hopefully they used their little bit of down time to work on the problems they were having but I don't think doing another season is going to help them. That last show really showed how uncomfortable Jon really is and I was floored at the utter lack of compassion Kate showed towards him. Kate is happy!! Period - IMO she just didn't care that the show is starting to come in between them. As long as she's getting what she wants and what she thinks is best - to hell with everyone else and their opinions. I thought they said that they would stop the show when the family said enough, oh well - I can only wish them the best and hope that they made the right choices for their family.
Well, of course, I don't think this is a huge surprise. Whatever the reason behind Jon's, "Maybe we'll be back, maybe we won't" comment, it certainly didn't give them much cliffhanger value considering TLC makes this announcement less than two weeks later....if that was even his intent.
I'm curious to see how the show progresses with Jon and Kate as producers and how they handle filming around, or including, Kate's busy travel schedule. Maybe Kate will slow down the book signing schedule during the summer since that's when they're able to film more because the kids are out of school and go on extended trips, or maybe it will be a lot of shows "squeezing things in". Who knows? Maybe Jon's schedule will be busier as well.
The living circumstances changed drastically for this family during Season 4...financial security, Kate's career...but I'm just as interested in seeing how they handle their new circumstances with 8 kids as I was watching them from the beginning. I think if their circumstances had remained stagnant and all we saw was shows of them hanging around the old house playing in the driveway, I would have lost interest months ago.
The article had some errors about the kids ages and I also noted they continue to bill the show as how 8 make even the most mundane of tasks a challenge. They rarely focus on mundane at this point. I know several of us disagree but I prefer the mundane shows and can't stand the trips out-and-about. I wouldn't mind some, because who stays in all day, but trips were almost all the show was about recently.
I would like to see an episode that shows whats going on in the house individually. Like show a few kids playing the basement, some outside, just kind of snapshots of what's going on at a given moment. Actually I'm creeping myself out a bit saying this.
I agree, CincyMom, I really did enjoy the 'ordinary day in the life' type of show. When it started to become far from an extraordinary family living an ordinary life and morphed into an extraordinary family living an extraordinary life it lost it's attraction for me. My youngest daughter has been recording that new show (Table For Twelve I think is the name?), and I watch that with her once in awhile, and I find something so attractive about the Mom, I can't say I identify with her, it's more I wish I had been more like her with my kids and less like Kate, but I don't think I'll become an avid watcher, I'm kind of turned off by reality shows. Although I find how this couple copes with all those kids and especially the disabled daughter fascinating and admirable. From the little I've seen of it, so far I like their interaction with each other and with each of the kids.
Liza Beth: How do you think that the cameras are around far less than before? IMO the cameras are there now more than ever!
I really think for the children's welfare that the show needs to stop. They need a chance to be kids without constantly being filmed. I think Jon and Kate need to go back to just being mom and dad to their wonderful 8 children because honestly the kids are growing up and it seems like neither parent really knows who their kids are. Im very disappointed that there will be a season 5 because the Gosselin circus has gone on long enough.
Disappointed, I based that statement on articles we have discussed in the past on this site, which confirmed both that Jon and Kate with their family are on camera or doing interviews 3 or 4 days a week. It is also based on the facts we have witnessed which were later confirmed on the show-- the kids bedrooms, the bathrooms, and Jon and Kate's bedroom are all off limits now for cameras.
The article was incorrect in stating the children's ages which makes me think they took information from the Season 4 DVD (which had the ages listed this way).
As I said before, this is a choice they made which I would not make. Because of that, I am at least thankful they have the aforementioned privacy measures in place (no more bathtub scenes which so many have criticized). Jon and Kate are also producers this next season which will be interesting to see. Marci, I agree with about being unsure what direction the show will take now (i.e. focus a few episodes on Kate's career path, or on the kids preparing for full time school).
I am extremely happy that the kids are no longer filmed in the rooms or the bathroom, but Im wondering if they are really given the option of staying in their room or if they are told they need to participate? Jon and Kate are not always with their family when filming, lately its been one or the other.
I'm not surprised there is a fifth season, but I honestly wish there weren't. It seems to have created such chaos, they speak of not really being able to go out as a family without things getting crazy. I know that whenever the show ends it will take a while for things to die down, but eventually they will. Wondering how filming will work out- don't the tups start kindergarten this fall?
Weed said...That last show really showed how uncomfortable Jon really is and I was floored at the utter lack of compassion Kate showed towards him. Kate is happy!! Period - IMO she just didn't care that the show is starting to come in between them. As long as she's getting what she wants and what she thinks is best - to hell with everyone else and their opinions.
I don't know that I have enough information to conclusively decide one way or another that Kate is driving this all and Jon wants out. I truly hope this isn't the case. I guess time will tell.
CincyMom said...I would like to see an episode that shows whats going on in the house individually. Like show a few kids playing the basement, some outside, just kind of snapshots of what's going on at a given moment. Actually I'm creeping myself out a bit saying this.
Ha. No, I know what you are saying. I actually enjoy the small trips too, however. Museums and such. I have said before I think it would be nice to have little excursions with one or two children. Less filming for the other kids and we would get a chance to see individual personalities (which I am sure are becoming more and more apparent) in play.
SamanthaNC said...Wondering how filming will work out- don't the tups start kindergarten this fall?
Samantha, I guess I was operating under the impression that regular filming of season 5 would happen during the summer months and end around the time the six start school. That would seem to be the wisest decision and from a nice clean break standpoint, appears to make the most sense.
Samantha, I guess I was operating under the impression that regular filming of season 5 would happen during the summer months and end around the time the six start school.
I'm just curious why you think this. Did you read it somewhere? I agree that doing a bulk of the shows in the summer would probably be best for the family.
Anya--yeah, individual trips where they can blend in somewhere and be a part of a crowd would be cool. Parading everyone to baseball skyboxes, Globetrotter courtside seats, Sesame, etc. not my cup of tea.
But since we already know about Emeril and the "green" show or whatever, they almost like walking endorsements of everything. I would like to get back to J&K + kids.
I feel so differently about the big trips vs. everyday things, and I get the feeling I am the only one. I actually liked the big vacations better. I would prefer to see them have their regular lives to themselves, although they are cute, and just show the special trips they wouldn't have taken anyway, without the show in their lives.
I do agree with Lizabeth and Disappointed and others who are happy to see 'Off-Limits' areas in the new house.
Saint, I'll have to dig out my recipe, but I think I remember, it's so easy, I usually just heat in a saucepan the pineapple juice and some ginger and and brown sugar and let it simmer awhile (the whole house smells great), then I take the pineapple rings and put them on top of the ham (scored and with the cloves too and parsley) and I also use some orange marmalade, and this time I'll try adding some cherry juice to the saucepan too (canned pitted cherries) and then I'll put the whole cherries on top of the ham too, you pour the juice concoction over it and it's good to go! I also use mustard but only on half of the ham because not everyone in my family is fond of mustard. My sister's husband makes a wonderful pineapple stuffing too! It's such a nice compliment to the ham.
Oh, I'm sorry, I put my post here in the wrong spot. I went to try and find my recipe and then opened the wrong post when I came back, this should have been answering Saint in Open Discussion. Sorry, I'll never get used to this!
Eileen, I've done that. Better to leave it where it is. I'll thank you here. The addition of ginger sounds wonderful! I wouldn't have thought of that...I can't wait for Easter.
AAP said...I'm just curious why you think this. Did you read it somewhere? I agree that doing a bulk of the shows in the summer would probably be best for the family.
Yeah, total speculation on my part. I haven't seen any confirmation. I agree about the summer filming. Hopefully, this will be the way they proceed. I guess we will have to wait and see....
That last show really showed how uncomfortable Jon really is and I was floored at the utter lack of compassion Kate showed towards him. Kate is happy!! Period - IMO she just didn't care that the show is starting to come in between them. As long as she's getting what she wants and what she thinks is best - to hell with everyone else and their opinions.
I just don't know how you can know what is in Kate's heart. She was talking about where she was at and how it made her feel. She likes it. That does not mean that she doesn't care that Jon was/is unhappy. Is she supposed to say that she doesn't like it because he doesn't like it? There is a difference between caring that 9your spouse is unhappy and being unhappy oneself. I don't think Kate's feels should be subsumed by Jon's.
I also really feel that this is the first and only time we've seen Jon express this, and we can't discount that the filming of that episode was apparently right when the bar/coed business was coming out. In my mind, that not only more than explains Jon's sudden unhappiness with his fame (which is out of character with what we know of him; he's said he likes being around people more than Kate). It could also explain any apparent callousness on Kate's part toward Jon's feelings.
Thanks Nina Bell :). I had read that it was 4 weeks from the final so that would have it around the first of May. I guess I will just have to wait and see.....
I'm glad they're doing another season. I don't worry about the privacy and finances of the G kids anymore. I think there should be protection for kids in reality tv since this seems to be a trend. If not, something somewhere is bound to go wrong along the line. Imo, J&K have their kids best interest at heart.
Eileen, I have to keep the threads straight too. I also have to watch my tabs, I just know someday I'll accidentally send a post to GWOP.
I agree with those who stated that they are not surprised by this decision. I'm not disappointed only because being disappointment would suggest that I expected something else. I didn't at all.
But since we already know about Emeril and the "green" show or whatever, they almost like walking endorsements of everything. I would like to get back to J&K + kids I agree and I think that is what makes all of this kind of sad. I don't begrudge anyone the opportunity to make money but when money and endorsements replace the well being of the family, then there is a problem.
NMD - I don't begrudge anyone the opportunity to make money but when money and endorsements replace the well being of the family, then there is a problem.
This is pretty much how I've felt all along. This is just my opinion, but I don't think financially Jon and Kate have the option to end the show.
I'm sure they have quite a bit of money saved from the various projects they have going on, but at the same time they just bought a million dollar home and a condo in Utah, which they will need to maintain, on top of all of their other expenses. If all the entertainment opportunities dried up, I am not sure they could support themselves on an IT and nurse's salary and what they have saved.
So while they started the show to support themselves, they need the show to continue the lifestyle they want to live. If Jon no longer wanted to do the show, but feels he has to, what other choices will they make for financial reasons?
Just a little off topic (I meant to make this comment when they first showed the new house), but Julie did get one thing right. Jon and Kate did have their sponsors buy them all new appliances. I don't think they moved in their new house, and then Kate decided she wanted all new appliances. Which means the show where Kate is scrubbing the fridge really was just for the show's sake, because who is going to spend 5 hours cleaning a fridge when you know you will be getting a new one?
Knowing Kate she just may have wanted her fridge to be sparkly clean for the basement. (lol) Or maybe she didn't know she was getting a fridge yet? Who knows.....
In this day and age where so many people are getting laid off with an uncertain future, If I was Jon & Kate Id be securing seasons 6 & 7. I mean, 4.6 MILLION people turned in for finale. It would make no sense to stop until people didn't watch your show anymore. Eight weddings, college and a new house to upkeep. Someone get me a show!!!
I'm sure they have quite a bit of money saved from the various projects they have going on, but at the same time they just bought a million dollar home and a condo in Utah
The condo rumor was confirmed? Where?
Knowing Kate she just may have wanted her fridge to be sparkly clean for the basement. (lol) Or maybe she didn't know she was getting a fridge yet? Who knows.....
Well, exactly. She kept the fridge, right? The, um, "close watchers" at GWOP confirmed that, I believe. Was she supposed to leave it dirty?
I really wonder about the state of some of these women's houses. They act like being a filthy slob is a virtue.
Seeing the good, bad and ugly things this show has brought Jon and Kate, you would really want a reality show? In theory it sounds like easy money, but personally, I think it will take a toll on the family.
See, this is why I don't post anymore - I can't guarantee what I am saying because I haven't seen a whole show in forever!!! LOL Guin, I really thought Jon confirmed it in his TV interview or it was confirmed on the show with him and Cara in Utah or it was People magazine. Didn't he??? To be honest, I'm not 100% sure.
Babymama, Do you think a 6th or 7th season would be wise, given the toll on the family? Even the freebies have a cost.
The kids, especially the twins, are getting older. The closer they get to puberty, the more flack they are going to take from peers. A lot of child stars talk about being teased mercilessly in school. They're just acting....Cara and Mady play themselves.
The younger kids have pretty much never known life without cameras. IMO, it's time to let them be kids.
I agree with nomoredrama, its time that the kids get to be kids. How sad is it that 6 of the Gosselin's 8 children know no life but cameras at your home for the better part of a week? IMO the cameras are taking a toll on Jon and Kate as well. When Jon said it was hard because he no longer gets to be just Jon anymore I was practically yelling at the TV "Imagine how your kids feel!".
I think that the show has had a good run and that Jon and Kate can secure their families financial future now in other ways. They seem to be doing that and doing it well.
I would like to see them just have a couple of yearly updates. That of course, is just how I see it.
I've noticed this before but isn't the picture of the family attached to this post so sad? The only people smiling are Jon and Kate...... I wonder if the kids were just having a really bad day or something? Or maybe they really are sick of all the "stuff"....?
While I enjoy the show and am glad they are back for Season 5, I think it should stop when the tups go to first grade. They need to experience life and just be kids and flourish. There will be so much as a family that they need to deal with (activiites, etc) and the new life experiences with other kids in their classrooms. Having cameras there will only be way too busy, no matter how big the house is.
I see nothing wrong with doing one hour specials. It can show how they've grown and experiencing life.
That being said, I do agree with AAP on the show allowing them to afford the lifestyle.
So while they started the show to support themselves, they need the show to continue the lifestyle they want to live. If Jon no longer wanted to do the show, but feels he has to, what other choices will they make for financial reasons?
(AAP, I think Jon's distaste of doing a season 5 was only a response of sorts to the flack he got with the picture. I think he was embarrassed and mad.)
I also think with J&K as producers, we have been seeing more privacy for the kids (no showing of their rooms). And, it does seem like with Kate's traveling and endorsements, they have obviously worked and are working on life once the show is over.(as we discussed before).
It would make no sense to stop until people didn't watch your show anymore. Eight weddings, college and a new house to upkeep. Someone get me a show!!!
I think there are 8 reasons to stop the show. Ratings and money isn't everything. I think they both could easily find other work and keep their family comfortable with the nest egg they've likely built up. The longer this experiment goes on the more I worry about their kids.
lol I know my kids have some pretty awful pictures, how is it that picture day always is a big tantrum, rushing around, bad hair day, for both the kids and me? But I just wondered because I do know that if I were trying to sell something with my kids photo that I would have chosen a better one, but thats just me. :)
The younger kids have pretty much never known life without cameras. IMO, it's time to let them be kids.
I understand that there are issues with the show, but I don't understand what it means to let the kids be kids. Most of the time they are filmed more or less doing what they'd be doing anyway, either on outings or at home. On occasion, they have to do things for the show like get up early for Oprah, but I don't think it's *that* different than things that "regular" kids might have to do that they don't want to (e.g. getting up early to go to church). Nor does it seem to be more frequent. Being a kid occasionally means being dragged "hither and yon" without your consent.
Again, I understand having issues with the show - chiefly with the lack of privacy. But I haven't seen evidence that the kids aren't allowed to be kids the way that a child actor (or a child working in a factor, for that matter) might.
Guin, I think "let the kids be kids" is actually "let the kids grow up without cameras filming them".
I think they've always done what they would've been doing anyway, too. In fact, I think there are a lot of kids who particpate in extracurricular activities who don't really want to, but their parents insist. We don't know about those kids because they aren't on TV. So, those kids and parents don't get scrutinized.
I've always thought that the Gosselin kids have this special "something" that makes the show work. I believe it starts with a strong family bond. Kudos to J&K for that. In a way, I believe the cameras have actually helped the sextuplets by allowing them all these opportunities (and social situations) that they would not have had otherwise.
I would think that because of a busier time coming in their lives and more attention should be devoted to their flourishing in first grade, that the cameras should take a break. Or, maybe it'll still be something they want to do and it can still work with their lifestyle. Who knows. Each family is different. What works for one, may not work for another.
While I can't speak for nomoredrama, when I said that I think the kids should get to be kids what I meant was they don't live a normal life. Yes they may have gone on all the outings regardless of the show, we will never know that though, but they can't even go out to play without somebody trying to snap a picture or talk to them, IMO that is not normal. Also I don't think its normal for 4 year olds and 8 year olds to have their tantrums and bad days shown to the general public for money. So while I think that the show has allowed them many great opportunities they may not have otherwise had I do think it has imposed some situations that are not part of a normal childhood.
So while I think that the show has allowed them many great opportunities they may not have otherwise had I do think it has imposed some situations that are not part of a normal childhood.
That is true Jacelynn. That is a sad part of the popularity of the Gosselin sextuplets. I think it would be a bit traumatic for them with people trying to snap their pictures when out in public. I also know that when they are out in public, that a security team is with them. That's not normal either, but a real necessity. (A friend was at the Thomas Train place when the Gosselis showed up. My friend did not know of the Gosselins being there. She and her husband had planned their trip for quite a while. She said they were all a friendly group....the Gosselins and TLC, but the security team was always on guard. As they should be.)
Yeah, that's not my idea of normal. But, it's their idea of normal. If they continue, I hope they keep the proper security measures in place.
I agree that the security measures are VERY necessary and I really love that Jon and Kate realize that. I think it shows that they really do care about their children, unlike what so many seem to think (not people here). And I do agree the the sextuplets think its normal but Im not sure if Mady and Cara would. I mean they did have a average life for four years before the tups were born and they do go to school with kids that aren't on TV.....? I dunno they may be completely fine with it but then again they may wonder why they are filmed and Im worried that later on they may resent their parents and the tups. Im sure Mady and Cara are great girls but week after week TLC shows them acting pretty bad, I think tantrums are pretty normal and part of life but when kids at school see you getting in trouble constantly I worry that they may be getting picked on. But also at the same time I think if that were the case Jon and Kate would do something about it.
lol, Well I've basically talked myself in a circle now, :), I just have one last thing to say; I hope the Gosselin children, and their parents, don't regret anything they have chosen to do. I hope the children are truly happy.
I tend to agree with you Nina Bell, I think the show has run its' course, and that yearly updates would be fine. While it seemed completely clear to me just how strong the conflict between j&k was in the season finale, it was also pretty obvious that the whole thing was done to capitalize on the recent media influx of tabloid stories and such. What is obvious to me at least, is that the 2 of them seem to be in a transtion stage, one where J wants (or at least seems to want) to go back to things being simple, and K wants to keep going. In all honesty I'm disappointed that there will be a season 5, I'd really hoped that they had seen that this was becoming too much.
I've been watching J&K+8 again...bed rest makes you do crazy thing ;) It made me realize that sometimes my judgement of them in the past has been a bit harsh. I'm a little like Kate when it comes to thinking my way of dealing with the kids is the only right way. Being on bed rest really teaches to let go of the control..b/p raising stuff at times lol.
I do hope that season 5 is the last full season. I'm confident that Kate and Jon will be able to take whatever celebrity they have now and make more than enough money minus this show. Like many have said yearly updates would great.
I guess I would say that "normal" is relative - the fact that they are sextuplets makes the Gosselin kids both "not normal" and subject to scrutiny.
That's not to say that the show doesn't have a negative effect on the kids; without a doubt there are negatives about the show. Just that I think sometimes too much emphasis is placed on "normal" and people don't really think about what it means. There are kids Mady and Cara's age all over the world who work in factories all day, and that's normal, for them.
I think it's more important to look at whether the kids are happy and healthy rather than if they cleave to any one individual's idea of normalcy.
I think it's more important to look at whether the kids are happy and healthy rather than if they cleave to any one individual's idea of normalcy.
I agree. "Normal" is a relative term. Whether or not the family members are fairly happy/content with their situation is more important than whether or not their situation is "normal."
In the little of their lives that I see on the episodes, this family appears to be healthy and fairly content the way they are. J&K are the only ones with all of the facts and knowledge in order to make the best informed decision in regards to continue the show or not.
I think it's more important to look at whether the kids are happy and healthy rather than if they cleave to any one individual's idea of normalcy.
I tend to agree with the train of thought that both Guinevere and GLO expressed. Whenever the word 'normal' comes up, my immediate reaction is, 'I wonder what this person means by 'a normal life?' Don't all kids have a 'public' life that's not completely of their choosing? And the Gosselins don't have a corner on putting their kids in public situations where 'the whole world' can see their missteps. Kids strike out with the bases loaded and are traumatized by that, kids have memory slips at piano recitals and are scarred for life by the experience. I don't think any of those kids are thinking at that moment, 'At least it wasn't millions of people seeing me mess up!'
I get impatient with all the viewer predictions about what each Gosselin kids' personal childhood trauma will be, and it's always related to the filming. Constipation! The knob off the dresser! The friggin' cupcakes! Just because the blogosphere is all wrapped up in the show and its own reaction to the show doesn't mean that the Gosselin kids think it's the be-all, end-all. Even though their parents chose it, it is the kids' lives, even though it might be strange to some of us. They'll choose what they think is their own personal childhood traumas, and I just think it's arrogant to write their life story for them just because we see 2o-whatever minutes out of a week of their life.
To me it's not such an issue for someone to say that the Gosselin children are not leading a 'normal' life. My definition of normal would be usual, ordinary, typical, common, average, conventional. The Gosselin children do not lead an ordinary, typical, average, conventional life. That's not to say that they won't grow up to be just fine and dandy, I just don't think having the opinion that they don't live a normal life is such a negative connotation. In my opinion the family lives a very extraordinary life.
I agree with Eileen, the Gosselin kids aren't living a "normal" life but they still have every chance at having a happy future.
I just worry that because of all the negative stuff surrounding the family the Gosselin kids may be negatively impacted by their parents decisions. There is a lot of mean and cruel stuff about the children floating around out there and who's to say the kids aren't hearing about it?
I agree that the Gosselin kids' lives are not average. But the definition of normal that was being used seemed to be more in line with "healthy" or "desirable". A lot of what's "normal" isn't either. I would say it is normal for families to be dysfunctional, but not healthy or desirable.
(Why do I have the feeling I'm going to be accused of nitpicking? :-)
I think I get what your saying Guin, and really normal is all relative. I just hope the Gosselin's are happy, healthy, and have some resemblance of a "normal", private life.
I just worry that because of all the negative stuff surrounding the family the Gosselin kids may be negatively impacted by their parents decisions. There is a lot of mean and cruel stuff about the children floating around out there and who's to say the kids aren't hearing about it?
That's something that famous families can arm their children against, in the same way that the typical family teaches their kids the rules of life: there are bullies out there (on the internet and in real life) kids (and adults) can be mean, ignore, ignore, ignore, and all the rest.
The Gosselin kids can live their lives without ever having to concern themselves with any of the online chatter. As much as some online communities would like to think they're crusading for a cause, it's really not anything more than gossip and chatter. It's words. It's sticks and stones.
That's something that famous families can arm their children against, in the same way that the typical family teaches their kids the rules of life: there are bullies out there (on the internet and in real life) kids (and adults) can be mean, ignore, ignore, ignore, and all the rest.
The Gosselin kids can live their lives without ever having to concern themselves with any of the online chatter. As much as some online communities would like to think they're crusading for a cause, it's really not anything more than gossip and chatter. It's words. It's sticks and stones.
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Im not saying that the Gosselin kids are looking it up, Im just saying that kids at school will have no doubt heard things and kids are often mean, especially teenage girls. The twins are fast approaching their teen years and bullies are mean. Yes its just words but words do hurt. Not everybody has thick enough skin to deal with the bullying that teenage girls dish out.
I don't think that the show has necessarily "run its course." I really don't think there's the danger of that until all eight are in school full time. The cameras do not go to school with them, so what is left to show, besides the weekends? Therefore, with the curiosity of the tups starting kindergarten, I still see another season or two. Plus, the show's popularity is higher than ever. I was actually SHOCKED at the amount of people on the official J&K Facebook group. 360,000 Sheeple Strong (and those are only Sheeple that are on Facebook)! That certainly dwarfs the number of haters posting on the "advocates" site (and no, you can't count the amount of hits on GWoP. For all we know, it's the same 10 lonely women who can't tear themselves away from a computer long enough to see daylight, who keep refreshing over and over and over).
I was reading a popular sports/media blog based in Chicago, and J&K were even mentioned there. The blogger is a stay at home dad (he's an author who's published several books and works out of the home). Here was his reaction:
Do you watch the show Jon & Kate plus 8? I must admit, [the wife] is a big fan, and when she turns it on, I sometimes watch it with her.
I can watch it for about five minutes before I start having a seizure imagining what life must be like with 8 children under the age of 8 (including sextuplets, that I think are either 3 or 4.)
According to this article, they may be experiencing some marital problems after Jon was spotted playing beer pong with some college girls. I'm not condoning his behavior, but I will say this: If I lived in that house, I would have been caught playing whiskey pong.
Yes its just words but words do hurt. Not everybody has thick enough skin to deal with the bullying that teenage girls dish out.
Jacelynn, I just object to the actions of bullies being the reason to do or not do anything. I hate living by the bullies' rules: don't step out of the norm, don't show that you're human, don't do anything that will make people notice you, or the Bullies will have ammunition to use against you. Screw that. I haven't seen the Gosselin kids do anything that's not just plain old human kid nature. Why do people talk as if they should be afraid? Maybe if the rest of us weren't afraid to be human, and just admitted that our kids aren't perfect either, none of us would have to give a crap about what bullies think.
Well, I agree with everything you say Tyra, but, I also see Jacelynn's point. If we lived in a perfect world no one would have to worry about the retribution of bullies for their actions. Unfortunately we all live in the real world. And words hurt a lot. It's obvious to me from reading the many comments here that words hurt even grown women. It's easier said than done to grow a thick skin and just ignore the bullies. It's almost an impossibility to ignore hurtful, hateful remarks, even when they are lobbed at you by complete strangers.
Tyra, yes the Gosselin kids should be able to live like kids, but their parents are giving the bullies ammunition. I don't think its about admitting that your kids aren't perfect, and it doesn't matter if you care what bullies think, the fact is that there ARE bullies and there will ALWAYS be bullies. I don't think your understanding of the bulling concept is spot on, mine isn't either, but the fact is that Jon and Kate are providing bullies with "ammunition".
Um, Jacelynn, we think a lot alike. This is getting scary. Maybe you're my long lost daughter? Maybe you were switched at birth with one I took home? Because my girls and I are usually on opposite poles on all subjects!
I'm having trouble posting again. If this doesn't go through, I'm giving up for the rest of the day!
Tyra, yes the Gosselin kids should be able to live like kids, but their parents are giving the bullies ammunition. I don't think its about admitting that your kids aren't perfect, and it doesn't matter if you care what bullies think, the fact is that there ARE bullies and there will ALWAYS be bullies. I don't think your understanding of the bulling concept is spot on, mine isn't either, but the fact is that Jon and Kate are providing bullies with "ammunition".
If we bystanders would change our attitudes and quit giving credence to what bullies think and do, they wouldn't have as much power as they do, that's my perspective. They don't deserve it. They don't deserve a second thought from anyone. (That goes for piggies in their pen, also.) We as viewers even go so far as to speculate about what the bullies might think is good ammunition against the Gosselin kids (potty training???!!!?) Bullies don't just get their power from their victims, they get it from bystanders who let the status quo stand. I don't think we should buy into it, or treat it as if there's nothing we can do about it. The very least we can do is not participate by treating bullies as if they have the power they like to see themselves having.
Eileen, thanks, lol my mom and I are usually completely opposite too and my girls aren't old enough to really tell yet..... one is 5 and the other 3 1/2. :)
Tyra: I don't think Im contributing the potential bullies of the Gosselin children. And I really don't think that WE are giving the bullies any power. And its not about the power the bullies have or don't have, the fact is that if the Gosselin kids were to be bullied, and who knows if they are?, there are a lot of things a bully could use because of their TV show.
while they started the show to support themselves, they need the show to continue the lifestyle they want to live. If Jon no longer wanted to do the show, but feels he has to, what other choices will they make for financial reasons? -----------------------
This makes me think of Ed McMann (sp?) (McMahn?)who can't afford to make the payments on his multimillion dollar home. Boo hoo, how sad.
I think I heard that Donald Trump bought the McMann (McMahan?) mansion so it didn't foreclose, and the McMann's now make their payments to Donald Trump.
What in the heck is wrong with changing to a more simple life style?
We have always known money can't buy happiness. Living the simple live can sure get rid of a whole lot of stress!
I agree with Nancy Week. IMO the kids looked much happier before the started "living the life". I think it would be stressful for the kids the way they live now, Jon and Kate are stressed (IMO) and no matter how hard you try some of that will rub off on your kids.
Tyra: I don't think Im contributing the potential bullies of the Gosselin children. And I really don't think that WE are giving the bullies any power. And its not about the power the bullies have or don't have, the fact is that if the Gosselin kids were to be bullied, and who knows if they are?, there are a lot of things a bully could use because of their TV show.
No, I don't think you personally are contributing to a particular bully. I'm talking about a general attitude I see reflected in many places, and somewhat in your comments. If the question is 'Where is the line that should be drawn in relation to the children's privacy and should certain things be shown because of issues related to privacy,' I think that's a different subject, and more worthy of discussion (though maybe irresolvable) than, 'The Gosselins have exposed their children to bullies, and that's why they shouldn't be doing what they're doing.' I put it in the same category as those arguments that say 'Pedophiles might be looking at the children, and therefore the tv show is wrong!!' Spurious.
Actually Tyra I do think part of the reason they shouldn't continue with the show is because they have knowingly fed the jealous/rude bully types. Its not the only reason I think they should stop but it is one. I also think that they should consider the fact that pedophiles could be watching the children, especially since they give out so many personal things about the kids. And I do think this topic is worthy of a discussion but if you don't want to discuss it that is fine by me. You called me out, all I did was say what I thought.
Actually Tyra I do think part of the reason they shouldn't continue with the show is because they have knowingly fed the jealous/rude bully types. Its not the only reason I think they should stop but it is one. I also think that they should consider the fact that pedophiles could be watching the children, especially since they give out so many personal things about the kids. And I do think this topic is worthy of a discussion but if you don't want to discuss it that is fine by me. You called me out, all I did was say what I thought.
Discussing it is exactly what I'm doing. I, too, am saying exactly what I think. Why are you labeling it as me 'calling you out'? I challenged your opinion, certainly, but that doesn't have anything to do with you personally, or mean that I am 'calling you out'.
The pedophile argument strikes me as spurious because it is based on the imagined actions and thoughts of imagined pedophiles.
Tyra; I said you called me out because you said that my arguments and thoughts on the Gosselin children and bullies are not worthy of discussion. Pedophiles are not imaginary and maybe in your idealistic world where bullies just go away if you ignore them they are but the fact is that there are pedophiles everywhere. I feel like Im just going around and around repeating myself so how about we just agree to disagree on the potential problems the Gosselin kids may face regarding bullies?
My point is that the argument about the pedophile shouldn't be based on what a pedophile might think or do, because, 1) there's no real answer to that and 2) why even try to understand or predict the way they think? I think the argument should be framed around what we actually see: are the kids being objectified? Are the kids being turned into physical objects? I think there is a line somewhere that you could cross in filming kids. I think the discussion lies in whether that line has been crossed in this case.
You know, in looking over my wording, I do see that I said 'more worthy of discussion' in comparing the way you're framing the argument, and the way I'm framing the argument. That was poor wording on my part, and I apologize for that. I simply disagree with the focus of your argument.
Tyra; No problem but next time you want to get in an argument with somebody remember what you said and compile your sentences and arguments carefully and wisely. I learned this the hard way.
If we don't guess and assume what people will do how can we protect our selves? Thats like saying a young lady should walk down a dark alley in a short skirt and not expect anything bad to happen. Its just not possible. You have to predict the consequences to decisions in order to make wise decisions, and to predict consequences includes, IMO, what others reactions are going to be. Its just the way the world is, in a perfect world you could do what ever you want without negative consequences but its not a perfect world.
Kids who want to tease or bully other kids will find a reason or make one up. I think whether or not the G kids are bullied depends on how they treat other kids. We know they are going to be good looking, they seem to be of at least average intelligence, so unless they are really obnoxious maybe the majority of their peers will want to be friends with them.
And having seven siblings (and Kate as a mother) should help prepare them for dealing with other people and making themselves heard. Plus, if someone picks on them there are all those other sibs to back them up.
There is also the possibility that they will be the bullies rather than the bullied. I hope not, but again they have that built in gang.
You have kids and you hope for the best and teach them how to behave and react to things, but you just don't know how things will turn out. As long as you're not breaking any laws, you have to live your life they way that's best for you and your family, not the way other people think you should live it. Whatever you do, someone will find fault.
Kikibee, I agree with most of what you said however, the only thing Im not sure Im getting is living your life the way you see fit. I agree with that, I just wonder if the way the Gosselins are living their life is going to have a negative effect on the children.
Im sure this has been discussed many times on this blog and I completely understand that there is no easy or right answer, only time will tell the effects the TV show had on the children. I really, really hope its a positive effect but with the way some children behave these days (not the Gs) Im kinda worried J&K are creating a breeding ground for possible dangerous situations.
Tyra; No problem but next time you want to get in an argument with somebody remember what you said and compile your sentences and arguments carefully and wisely. I learned this the hard way.
That is an extremely rude way to respond to an apology.
I agree with Tyra and Kikibee: the possibility that the Gosselin children will be teased or bullied about their appearances on TV is not, IMO, a good reason for the show to end or for it not to exist. They may or may not be teased or bullied anyway, and the best thing the Gosselin parents can do, that ANY parent can do, is to give their children the tools to fight bullies. That means helping to build their self-esteem and teaching them how to deal with difficult people.
I know that it's not meant this way, but there's something sad about the message that the way to deal with bullies is to attempt not to stand out. Children should not be raised to be afraid of being different; I think doing so can stunt a child's potential. Then the child loses and society as a whole is poorer.
This makes me think of Ed McMann (sp?) (McMahn?)who can't afford to make the payments on his multimillion dollar home. Boo hoo, how sad.
I think I heard that Donald Trump bought the McMann (McMahan?) mansion so it didn't foreclose, and the McMann's now make their payments to Donald Trump.
What in the heck is wrong with changing to a more simple life style?
We have always known money can't buy happiness. Living the simple live can sure get rid of a whole lot of stress!
There's nothing wrong with the simple life. There's also nothing inherently wrong about trying to better oneself and one's lot in life. Poverty is stressful. Poverty with a lot of kids, even moreso.
Living a more modest life does not automatically make one more virtuous, nor does it, in and of itself, "buy happiness". You may believe that the Gosselins are pursuing the wrong goals for the wrong reasons, but I don't believe in romanticizing the difficulty they would have had supporting eight children on their two incomes, nor do I totally discount the life-enriching experiences the show has brought the kids.
It's been said before, but it's about a balance. It's not all good or all bad. I think most people who are okay with the Gosselins' choices understand that there are negative aspects to their decision to do the show. I'm not sure if their more fervent detractors get that there are positive aspects; they seem to constantly discount them when they are brought up.
Guin: Its not the only reason I think they should stop, its simply one of many.
Fair enough. I almost did say that I think there are other valid reasons for believing the show should end. I just don't believe the kids-getting-bullied is a valid one.
Jacelynn, I don't necessarily "approve" of putting your life on tv (I sure wouldn't do it) but I don't think that makes it bad for someone else. And it's not that strange in today's society. People put all their business out there on the internet, people are "caught on tape" and shown on tv, now there are other families "living" on camera. It's not like "OMG, I can't believe that family is on tv. That's just unbelievable!" When I was a kid, it would have been thought crazy (actually, that's when the Loud family was on PBS, and people did think it was crazy). Nowadays, it's pretty much just accepted.
The thing is, everyone has to decide for themselves whether the way they are living is good for them and their family. One person (or couple) may think something they are doing "might" cause problems down the road and decide to stop it. Another couple thinks their family is doing very well and thinks the advantages they know they have outweigh any "theoretical" problems that may come up.
There are things that could come up with any family, not just one on tv. Only the people involved really know what's going on, and you just have to hope they make the right decision.
Also, I don't think J&K would necessarily be happier if they were still living their old life. I can imagine Kate being unhappy being the main breadwinner (which is a likely scenario) which would lead to problems.
Kikibee, I don't recall saying it was strange, but no I certainly wouldn't do it. Also I do think they would be happier without the stress the show, book writing, and engagements puts on the. Even Jon said that he misses being just Jon.
Guin: I don't think its a valid excuse by itself but I think there are a lot of other factors, many of which Im sure we don't know about, that combined should be looked at. And in my opinion the combined factors is enough to stop the show.
I didn't mean to imply that you said it was "strange", I was just commenting, as regards to "living your life as you see fit", that while it's not how "I" would live my life, I can see how other people would find it reasonable. Or something to that effect.
Also I do think they would be happier without the stress the show, book writing, and engagements puts on the. Even Jon said that he misses being just Jon.
I think this may be the difference between those that feel the show should end and those that feel that it's the Gosselins' decision - I can't imagine thinking that I KNOW what would make total strangers happy.
I understand your point about Jon, but just have to reiterate that he said that (the only time I've heard him express reservations about the show) apparently right around the time that he was getting some very negative publicity.
Guinevere said.. I think this may be the difference between those that feel the show should end and those that feel that it's the Gosselins' decision - I can't imagine thinking that I KNOW what would make total strangers happy.
I understand your point about Jon, but just have to reiterate that he said that (the only time I've heard him express reservations about the show) apparently right around the time that he was getting some very negative publicity.
Kickibee said.. The thing is, everyone has to decide for themselves whether the way they are living is good for them and their family. One person (or couple) may think something they are doing "might" cause problems down the road and decide to stop it. Another couple thinks their family is doing very well and thinks the advantages they know they have outweigh any "theoretical" problems that may come up.
BINGO! That's what I believe too Kickibee. Those who are regular readers here, know that I have always said, it's J&K's choice. It's their family and their decision(s).
What you have said Kickibee is really the bottom line in this whole "should the Gosselins continue on tv or not" debate. Everyone has their own beleifs and can argue pro or con, but eventually and it always has been, only one couple's (J&K's) decision to make for their family. Some may like it, some may not. So be it.
I don't think anyone here would argue that the decision for how the Gosselin family should go forward would lie with anyone but Jon & Kate Gosselin. But it's obvious that people like to debate that issue (hence the many blogs on the subject) and most people argue based on how they would conduct themselves if placed in the very same situation, which I think is how we argue most points. Most of us have no problem judging Nadya Suleman because her lifestyle and decisions are so far removed from what we deem 'normal' (there's that word again), and I think in the case of Jon & Kate they are deemed somewhat above/below the norm too, so their lifestyle and decisions get judged too. Do I think Nadya would be happier if she didn't allow a Reality TV show? No, she would not be happier but I think it would be in the best interest of her children (all her children, not just the preemies) to not have a Reality TV show. It is not my decision though. Do I think Jon Kate would be happier if they stopped the show now? Well, I do not think Kate would be happy based on what I've heard she said about being very happy, Jon might be happier based on what I've heard, and again, I think it would be in the best interest of the children to stop the show. For myself, I don't like the idea of children living under a public microscope. Again, it is not my decision to make. We're all just throwing out our opinions here.
Having trouble posting again. This will be my last try.
Eileen said... I don't like the idea of children living under a public microscope.
That's my objection in a nutshell.
I have always said I wouldn't do it, until I read Kate's book and realized they had no dependable income before this show. If my choice were between being dependent on others, dirt poor, and a private life, versus rich, independent, and on TV, I think you might see "Saint's Family" on TLC. I'd hate it (as I suspect Kate did at first) and I'd never sustain an audience, but I'd take the leap to get out from under twenty-four volunteers and begging for help from the Salvation Army.
I know people will think, "They had more than those 2 choices." At the time they started? I don't think so.
As for season 5? I wouldn't do it. There are other choices now.
I didn't weigh in on the bullying issue, before. I've learned from recent experience that living your life without regard for a bullies' reaction is best. So I'd say that bullies don't concern me.
Guin: Actually if you go back a few seasons, even to the first hour specials they ARE happier and nicer to each other. I think their fame and all the stress that goes with their new life style is taking its tole. And regarding what Jon said, I think it should still be taken into account, he is tired of living in front of the cameras, "I can't be just Jon anymore Im Jon from Jon and Kate plus 8".
I don't think anyone here would argue that the decision for how the Gosselin family should go forward would lie with anyone but Jon & Kate Gosselin. But it's obvious that people like to debate that issue (hence the many blogs on the subject) and most people argue based on how they would conduct themselves if placed in the very same situation, which I think is how we argue most points.
We're all just throwing out our opinions here.
Yeah, and I'm certainly not trying to discourage anyone from expressing her opinion. Sometimes it's just semantics to me - "J&K and the kids look unhappy" v. "J&K and the kids are unhappy" or "if it were me, I would end the show once I was financially secure" v. "J&K should end the show." Debate is great, but sometimes I think we debate with assumptions (like that the Gosselins are financially secure at this point) versus actual known facts.
Guin: Actually if you go back a few seasons, even to the first hour specials they ARE happier and nicer to each other. I think their fame and all the stress that goes with their new life style is taking its tole. And regarding what Jon said, I think it should still be taken into account, he is tired of living in front of the cameras, "I can't be just Jon anymore Im Jon from Jon and Kate plus 8".
I think you can say they were nicer to each other (which could be chalked up to being on better behavior for the cameras), but I don't know how you can say they were happier. We really don't know what's in their hearts. We don't even know what they do or say when the cameras are turned off. Really, we feel like we know the Gosselins, but what we don't know amounts to a whole lot more than what we do (IMO, obviously).
I'm not discounting Jon's unhappiness in the last interview, merely trying to put it in context - since it is out of step, I think, with the way he has talked about the show in every other interview I've ever seen.
If Jon wants to stop the show, he does have that power. We're not making him do the show, nor is TLC, nor is Kate. She may dominate him, but that is with his consent/participation. He's an adult just as much as she is. (Unlike the kids. To the extent that I worry about the show or the kids, I do think that even the parents' stated intent to respect their childrens' wishes about filming is fraught with potential pitfalls. The kids, especially the 4-year-olds, are too young to make informed decisions about being on the show. They may feel tacit pressure to continue. I'm not saying any of this is the case, but I've been encouraged by the greater absence and privacy of Mady and Cara - it seems likely that that's their choice, and I take it as evidence that their wants are being given consideration.)
Guin, I agree, we are not behind the scenes so we can't know for sure what the family dynamics are. We can only make assumptions on what we see. Each side of the argument is only surmising, there really is no right or wrong (or at least no way to prove your opinion is right or wrong until the family offers more information, or someone does an in-depth investigation on them with proof to back up any information, but I can't see the Gosselin Family being 'vetted'). I think it's like I said about how we all judge them by our standards, and because we 'know' how we would feel or act in certain situations we attribute those feelings to others. I don't 'know' how Sarah Palin felt during the election but I know how I would have felt if it were me and my family in the news in such a negative way and I attributed my feelings to her. I think it's the same with people doing that with Jon and with the kids. Kate we know is happy if we take what she says at face value. Jon is not if we take what he last said at face value. The kids we can only guess at their feelings, so we attribute our feelings to them.
Oh, this is getting too deep for me. I hope this makes sense to someone.
91 comments:
Well now we know for sure that another season is on the way! I have seen a few similar articles that speculate on Jon and Kate's marriage as well due to the new season. I also read somewhere that during a break between seasons they were able to have some time together to work on their marriage which is encouraging.
They have made a choice for their family, and while it is not one I would make at least we know there are more privacy measures in place and the cameras are around far less than they were in the beginning.
Liza Beth said...They have made a choice for their family, and while it is not one I would make at least we know there are more privacy measures in place and the cameras are around far less than they were in the beginning.
So this will be the season J&K will be producers - is that correct?
I don't really have a problem with a season five. There are some things I would change to reduce the stress on the family, but that is their call - not mine.
I will watch. I have made the investment. I'd like to see the six getting ready for kindergarten.
After that, a special or two every year would nice, but that will depend on how the family feels.
There was no doubt that they were coming back for a 5th season. I'm disappointed but hopefully they used their little bit of down time to work on the problems they were having but I don't think doing another season is going to help them. That last show really showed how uncomfortable Jon really is and I was floored at the utter lack of compassion Kate showed towards him. Kate is happy!! Period - IMO she just didn't care that the show is starting to come in between them. As long as she's getting what she wants and what she thinks is best - to hell with everyone else and their opinions. I thought they said that they would stop the show when the family said enough, oh well - I can only wish them the best and hope that they made the right choices for their family.
Well, of course, I don't think this is a huge surprise. Whatever the reason behind Jon's, "Maybe we'll be back, maybe we won't" comment, it certainly didn't give them much cliffhanger value considering TLC makes this announcement less than two weeks later....if that was even his intent.
I'm curious to see how the show progresses with Jon and Kate as producers and how they handle filming around, or including, Kate's busy travel schedule. Maybe Kate will slow down the book signing schedule during the summer since that's when they're able to film more because the kids are out of school and go on extended trips, or maybe it will be a lot of shows "squeezing things in". Who knows? Maybe Jon's schedule will be busier as well.
The living circumstances changed drastically for this family during Season 4...financial security, Kate's career...but I'm just as interested in seeing how they handle their new circumstances with 8 kids as I was watching them from the beginning. I think if their circumstances had remained stagnant and all we saw was shows of them hanging around the old house playing in the driveway, I would have lost interest months ago.
The article had some errors about the kids ages and I also noted they continue to bill the show as how 8 make even the most mundane of tasks a challenge. They rarely focus on mundane at this point. I know several of us disagree but I prefer the mundane shows and can't stand the trips out-and-about. I wouldn't mind some, because who stays in all day, but trips were almost all the show was about recently.
I would like to see an episode that shows whats going on in the house individually. Like show a few kids playing the basement, some outside, just kind of snapshots of what's going on at a given moment. Actually I'm creeping myself out a bit saying this.
I agree, CincyMom, I really did enjoy the 'ordinary day in the life' type of show. When it started to become far from an extraordinary family living an ordinary life and morphed into an extraordinary family living an extraordinary life it lost it's attraction for me.
My youngest daughter has been recording that new show (Table For Twelve I think is the name?), and I watch that with her once in awhile, and I find something so attractive about the Mom, I can't say I identify with her, it's more I wish I had been more like her with my kids and less like Kate, but I don't think I'll become an avid watcher, I'm kind of turned off by reality shows. Although I find how this couple copes with all those kids and especially the disabled daughter fascinating and admirable. From the little I've seen of it, so far I like their interaction with each other and with each of the kids.
Liza Beth: How do you think that the cameras are around far less than before? IMO the cameras are there now more than ever!
I really think for the children's welfare that the show needs to stop. They need a chance to be kids without constantly being filmed. I think Jon and Kate need to go back to just being mom and dad to their wonderful 8 children because honestly the kids are growing up and it seems like neither parent really knows who their kids are. Im very disappointed that there will be a season 5 because the Gosselin circus has gone on long enough.
Aren't the Gosselin kids 4 and 8 now, not 3 and 7?
Disappointed, I based that statement on articles we have discussed in the past on this site, which confirmed both that Jon and Kate with their family are on camera or doing interviews 3 or 4 days a week. It is also based on the facts we have witnessed which were later confirmed on the show-- the kids bedrooms, the bathrooms, and Jon and Kate's bedroom are all off limits now for cameras.
The article was incorrect in stating the children's ages which makes me think they took information from the Season 4 DVD (which had the ages listed this way).
As I said before, this is a choice they made which I would not make. Because of that, I am at least thankful they have the aforementioned privacy measures in place (no more bathtub scenes which so many have criticized). Jon and Kate are also producers this next season which will be interesting to see. Marci, I agree with about being unsure what direction the show will take now (i.e. focus a few episodes on Kate's career path, or on the kids preparing for full time school).
I am extremely happy that the kids are no longer filmed in the rooms or the bathroom, but Im wondering if they are really given the option of staying in their room or if they are told they need to participate? Jon and Kate are not always with their family when filming, lately its been one or the other.
I'm not surprised there is a fifth season, but I honestly wish there weren't. It seems to have created such chaos, they speak of not really being able to go out as a family without things getting crazy. I know that whenever the show ends it will take a while for things to die down, but eventually they will. Wondering how filming will work out- don't the tups start kindergarten this fall?
Weed said...That last show really showed how uncomfortable Jon really is and I was floored at the utter lack of compassion Kate showed towards him. Kate is happy!! Period - IMO she just didn't care that the show is starting to come in between them. As long as she's getting what she wants and what she thinks is best - to hell with everyone else and their opinions.
I don't know that I have enough information to conclusively decide one way or another that Kate is driving this all and Jon wants out. I truly hope this isn't the case. I guess time will tell.
CincyMom said...I would like to see an episode that shows whats going on in the house individually. Like show a few kids playing the basement, some outside, just kind of snapshots of what's going on at a given moment. Actually I'm creeping myself out a bit saying this.
Ha. No, I know what you are saying. I actually enjoy the small trips too, however. Museums and such. I have said before I think it would be nice to have little excursions with one or two children. Less filming for the other kids and we would get a chance to see individual personalities (which I am sure are becoming more and more apparent) in play.
SamanthaNC said...Wondering how filming will work out- don't the tups start kindergarten this fall?
Samantha, I guess I was operating under the impression that regular filming of season 5 would happen during the summer months and end around the time the six start school. That would seem to be the wisest decision and from a nice clean break standpoint, appears to make the most sense.
Anya
Samantha, I guess I was operating under the impression that regular filming of season 5 would happen during the summer months and end around the time the six start school.
I'm just curious why you think this. Did you read it somewhere? I agree that doing a bulk of the shows in the summer would probably be best for the family.
Anya--yeah, individual trips where they can blend in somewhere and be a part of a crowd would be cool. Parading everyone to baseball skyboxes, Globetrotter courtside seats, Sesame, etc. not my cup of tea.
But since we already know about Emeril and the "green" show or whatever, they almost like walking endorsements of everything. I would like to get back to J&K + kids.
I feel so differently about the big trips vs. everyday things, and I get the feeling I am the only one. I actually liked the big vacations better. I would prefer to see them have their regular lives to themselves, although they are cute, and just show the special trips they wouldn't have taken anyway, without the show in their lives.
I do agree with Lizabeth and Disappointed and others who are happy to see 'Off-Limits' areas in the new house.
Saint, I'll have to dig out my recipe, but I think I remember, it's so easy, I usually just heat in a saucepan the pineapple juice and some ginger and and brown sugar and let it simmer awhile (the whole house smells great), then I take the pineapple rings and put them on top of the ham (scored and with the cloves too and parsley) and I also use some orange marmalade, and this time I'll try adding some cherry juice to the saucepan too (canned pitted cherries) and then I'll put the whole cherries on top of the ham too, you pour the juice concoction over it and it's good to go! I also use mustard but only on half of the ham because not everyone in my family is fond of mustard. My sister's husband makes a wonderful pineapple stuffing too! It's such a nice compliment to the ham.
Oh, I'm sorry, I put my post here in the wrong spot. I went to try and find my recipe and then opened the wrong post when I came back, this should have been answering Saint in Open Discussion.
Sorry, I'll never get used to this!
Eileen, I've done that. Better to leave it where it is. I'll thank you here. The addition of ginger sounds wonderful! I wouldn't have thought of that...I can't wait for Easter.
AAP said...I'm just curious why you think this. Did you read it somewhere? I agree that doing a bulk of the shows in the summer would probably be best for the family.
Yeah, total speculation on my part. I haven't seen any confirmation. I agree about the summer filming. Hopefully, this will be the way they proceed. I guess we will have to wait and see....
That last show really showed how uncomfortable Jon really is and I was floored at the utter lack of compassion Kate showed towards him. Kate is happy!! Period - IMO she just didn't care that the show is starting to come in between them. As long as she's getting what she wants and what she thinks is best - to hell with everyone else and their opinions.
I just don't know how you can know what is in Kate's heart. She was talking about where she was at and how it made her feel. She likes it. That does not mean that she doesn't care that Jon was/is unhappy. Is she supposed to say that she doesn't like it because he doesn't like it? There is a difference between caring that 9your spouse is unhappy and being unhappy oneself. I don't think Kate's feels should be subsumed by Jon's.
I also really feel that this is the first and only time we've seen Jon express this, and we can't discount that the filming of that episode was apparently right when the bar/coed business was coming out. In my mind, that not only more than explains Jon's sudden unhappiness with his fame (which is out of character with what we know of him; he's said he likes being around people more than Kate). It could also explain any apparent callousness on Kate's part toward Jon's feelings.
Has anybody heard when the knew season starts?
Welcome Jacelynn
I thought I read the first of May
Thanks Nina Bell :). I had read that it was 4 weeks from the final so that would have it around the first of May. I guess I will just have to wait and see.....
I'm glad they're doing another season. I don't worry about the privacy and finances of the G kids anymore. I think there should be protection for kids in reality tv since this seems to be a trend. If not, something somewhere is bound to go wrong along the line. Imo, J&K have their kids best interest at heart.
Eileen, I have to keep the threads straight too. I also have to watch my tabs, I just know someday I'll accidentally send a post to GWOP.
I agree with those who stated that they are not surprised by this decision. I'm not disappointed only because being disappointment would suggest that I expected something else. I didn't at all.
But since we already know about Emeril and the "green" show or whatever, they almost like walking endorsements of everything. I would like to get back to J&K + kids
I agree and I think that is what makes all of this kind of sad. I don't begrudge anyone the opportunity to make money but when money and endorsements replace the well being of the family, then there is a problem.
NMD - I don't begrudge anyone the opportunity to make money but when money and endorsements replace the well being of the family, then there is a problem.
This is pretty much how I've felt all along. This is just my opinion, but I don't think financially Jon and Kate have the option to end the show.
I'm sure they have quite a bit of money saved from the various projects they have going on, but at the same time they just bought a million dollar home and a condo in Utah, which they will need to maintain, on top of all of their other expenses. If all the entertainment opportunities dried up, I am not sure they could support themselves on an IT and nurse's salary and what they have saved.
So while they started the show to support themselves, they need the show to continue the lifestyle they want to live. If Jon no longer wanted to do the show, but feels he has to, what other choices will they make for financial reasons?
Just a little off topic (I meant to make this comment when they first showed the new house), but Julie did get one thing right. Jon and Kate did have their sponsors buy them all new appliances. I don't think they moved in their new house, and then Kate decided she wanted all new appliances. Which means the show where Kate is scrubbing the fridge really was just for the show's sake, because who is going to spend 5 hours cleaning a fridge when you know you will be getting a new one?
Knowing Kate she just may have wanted her fridge to be sparkly clean for the basement. (lol) Or maybe she didn't know she was getting a fridge yet? Who knows.....
In this day and age where so many people are getting laid off with an uncertain future, If I was Jon & Kate Id be securing seasons 6 & 7. I mean, 4.6 MILLION people turned in for finale. It would make no sense to stop until people didn't watch your show anymore. Eight weddings, college and a new house to upkeep. Someone get me a show!!!
I'm sure they have quite a bit of money saved from the various projects they have going on, but at the same time they just bought a million dollar home and a condo in Utah
The condo rumor was confirmed? Where?
Knowing Kate she just may have wanted her fridge to be sparkly clean for the basement. (lol) Or maybe she didn't know she was getting a fridge yet? Who knows.....
Well, exactly. She kept the fridge, right? The, um, "close watchers" at GWOP confirmed that, I believe. Was she supposed to leave it dirty?
I really wonder about the state of some of these women's houses. They act like being a filthy slob is a virtue.
Baby Mama -
Seeing the good, bad and ugly things this show has brought Jon and Kate, you would really want a reality show? In theory it sounds like easy money, but personally, I think it will take a toll on the family.
See, this is why I don't post anymore - I can't guarantee what I am saying because I haven't seen a whole show in forever!!! LOL Guin, I really thought Jon confirmed it in his TV interview or it was confirmed on the show with him and Cara in Utah or it was People magazine. Didn't he??? To be honest, I'm not 100% sure.
Babymama,
Do you think a 6th or 7th season would be wise, given the toll on the family? Even the freebies have a cost.
The kids, especially the twins, are getting older. The closer they get to puberty, the more flack they are going to take from peers. A lot of child stars talk about being teased mercilessly in school. They're just acting....Cara and Mady play themselves.
The younger kids have pretty much never known life without cameras. IMO, it's time to let them be kids.
I agree with nomoredrama, its time that the kids get to be kids. How sad is it that 6 of the Gosselin's 8 children know no life but cameras at your home for the better part of a week? IMO the cameras are taking a toll on Jon and Kate as well. When Jon said it was hard because he no longer gets to be just Jon anymore I was practically yelling at the TV "Imagine how your kids feel!".
I think that the show has had a good run and that Jon and Kate can secure their families financial future now in other ways. They seem to be doing that and doing it well.
I would like to see them just have a couple of yearly updates. That of course, is just how I see it.
I've noticed this before but isn't the picture of the family attached to this post so sad? The only people smiling are Jon and Kate...... I wonder if the kids were just having a really bad day or something? Or maybe they really are sick of all the "stuff"....?
While I enjoy the show and am glad they are back for Season 5, I think it should stop when the tups go to first grade. They need to experience life and just be kids and flourish. There will be so much as a family that they need to deal with (activiites, etc) and the new life experiences with other kids in their classrooms. Having cameras there will only be way too busy, no matter how big the house is.
I see nothing wrong with doing one hour specials. It can show how they've grown and experiencing life.
That being said, I do agree with AAP on the show allowing them to afford the lifestyle.
So while they started the show to support themselves, they need the show to continue the lifestyle they want to live. If Jon no longer wanted to do the show, but feels he has to, what other choices will they make for financial reasons?
(AAP, I think Jon's distaste of doing a season 5 was only a response of sorts to the flack he got with the picture. I think he was embarrassed and mad.)
I also think with J&K as producers, we have been seeing more privacy for the kids (no showing of their rooms). And, it does seem like with Kate's traveling and endorsements, they have obviously worked and are working on life once the show is over.(as we discussed before).
Show or not, we will still see the Gosselins.
It would make no sense to stop until people didn't watch your show anymore. Eight weddings, college and a new house to upkeep. Someone get me a show!!!
I think there are 8 reasons to stop the show. Ratings and money isn't everything. I think they both could easily find other work and keep their family comfortable with the nest egg they've likely built up. The longer this experiment goes on the more I worry about their kids.
Gosselin kids sad? Nah. You should see some of the pictures of my kids growing up.
lol I know my kids have some pretty awful pictures, how is it that picture day always is a big tantrum, rushing around, bad hair day, for both the kids and me? But I just wondered because I do know that if I were trying to sell something with my kids photo that I would have chosen a better one, but thats just me. :)
The younger kids have pretty much never known life without cameras. IMO, it's time to let them be kids.
I understand that there are issues with the show, but I don't understand what it means to let the kids be kids. Most of the time they are filmed more or less doing what they'd be doing anyway, either on outings or at home. On occasion, they have to do things for the show like get up early for Oprah, but I don't think it's *that* different than things that "regular" kids might have to do that they don't want to (e.g. getting up early to go to church). Nor does it seem to be more frequent. Being a kid occasionally means being dragged "hither and yon" without your consent.
Again, I understand having issues with the show - chiefly with the lack of privacy. But I haven't seen evidence that the kids aren't allowed to be kids the way that a child actor (or a child working in a factor, for that matter) might.
Guin, I think "let the kids be kids" is actually "let the kids grow up without cameras filming them".
I think they've always done what they would've been doing anyway, too. In fact, I think there are a lot of kids who particpate in extracurricular activities who don't really want to, but their parents insist. We don't know about those kids because they aren't on TV. So, those kids and parents don't get scrutinized.
I've always thought that the Gosselin kids have this special "something" that makes the show work. I believe it starts with a strong family bond. Kudos to J&K for that. In a way, I believe the cameras have actually helped the sextuplets by allowing them all these opportunities (and social situations) that they would not have had otherwise.
I would think that because of a busier time coming in their lives and more attention should be devoted to their flourishing in first grade, that the cameras should take a break. Or, maybe it'll still be something they want to do and it can still work with their lifestyle. Who knows. Each family is different. What works for one, may not work for another.
While I can't speak for nomoredrama, when I said that I think the kids should get to be kids what I meant was they don't live a normal life. Yes they may have gone on all the outings regardless of the show, we will never know that though, but they can't even go out to play without somebody trying to snap a picture or talk to them, IMO that is not normal. Also I don't think its normal for 4 year olds and 8 year olds to have their tantrums and bad days shown to the general public for money. So while I think that the show has allowed them many great opportunities they may not have otherwise had I do think it has imposed some situations that are not part of a normal childhood.
So while I think that the show has allowed them many great opportunities they may not have otherwise had I do think it has imposed some situations that are not part of a normal childhood.
That is true Jacelynn. That is a sad part of the popularity of the Gosselin sextuplets. I think it would be a bit traumatic for them with people trying to snap their pictures when out in public. I also know that when they are out in public, that a security team is with them. That's not normal either, but a real necessity. (A friend was at the Thomas Train place when the Gosselis showed up. My friend did not know of the Gosselins being there. She and her husband had planned their trip for quite a while. She said they were all a friendly group....the Gosselins and TLC, but the security team was always on guard. As they should be.)
Yeah, that's not my idea of normal. But, it's their idea of normal. If they continue, I hope they keep the proper security measures in place.
I agree that the security measures are VERY necessary and I really love that Jon and Kate realize that. I think it shows that they really do care about their children, unlike what so many seem to think (not people here). And I do agree the the sextuplets think its normal but Im not sure if Mady and Cara would. I mean they did have a average life for four years before the tups were born and they do go to school with kids that aren't on TV.....? I dunno they may be completely fine with it but then again they may wonder why they are filmed and Im worried that later on they may resent their parents and the tups. Im sure Mady and Cara are great girls but week after week TLC shows them acting pretty bad, I think tantrums are pretty normal and part of life but when kids at school see you getting in trouble constantly I worry that they may be getting picked on. But also at the same time I think if that were the case Jon and Kate would do something about it.
lol, Well I've basically talked myself in a circle now, :), I just have one last thing to say; I hope the Gosselin children, and their parents, don't regret anything they have chosen to do. I hope the children are truly happy.
I tend to agree with you Nina Bell, I think the show has run its' course, and that yearly updates would be fine. While it seemed completely clear to me just how strong the conflict between j&k was in the season finale, it was also pretty obvious that the whole thing was done to capitalize on the recent media influx of tabloid stories and such. What is obvious to me at least, is that the 2 of them seem to be in a transtion stage, one where J wants (or at least seems to want) to go back to things being simple, and K wants to keep going. In all honesty I'm disappointed that there will be a season 5, I'd really hoped that they had seen that this was becoming too much.
I've been watching J&K+8 again...bed rest makes you do crazy thing ;) It made me realize that sometimes my judgement of them in the past has been a bit harsh. I'm a little like Kate when it comes to thinking my way of dealing with the kids is the only right way. Being on bed rest really teaches to let go of the control..b/p raising stuff at times lol.
I do hope that season 5 is the last full season. I'm confident that Kate and Jon will be able to take whatever celebrity they have now and make more than enough money minus this show. Like many have said yearly updates would great.
I guess I would say that "normal" is relative - the fact that they are sextuplets makes the Gosselin kids both "not normal" and subject to scrutiny.
That's not to say that the show doesn't have a negative effect on the kids; without a doubt there are negatives about the show. Just that I think sometimes too much emphasis is placed on "normal" and people don't really think about what it means. There are kids Mady and Cara's age all over the world who work in factories all day, and that's normal, for them.
I think it's more important to look at whether the kids are happy and healthy rather than if they cleave to any one individual's idea of normalcy.
I think it's more important to look at whether the kids are happy and healthy rather than if they cleave to any one individual's idea of normalcy.
I agree. "Normal" is a relative term. Whether or not the family members are fairly happy/content with their situation is more important than whether or not their situation is "normal."
In the little of their lives that I see on the episodes, this family appears to be healthy and fairly content the way they are. J&K are the only ones with all of the facts and knowledge in order to make the best informed decision in regards to continue the show or not.
If anyone is interested, there is a new music video on the tlc site- http://tlc.discovery.com/videos/jon-kate-plus-8-music-videos/index.html
Also, the new season officially starts May 25-- the Jon and Kate Facebook fan page (which has over 356,600 fans) had that as an update.
I think it's more important to look at whether the kids are happy and healthy rather than if they cleave to any one individual's idea of normalcy.
I tend to agree with the train of thought that both Guinevere and GLO expressed. Whenever the word 'normal' comes up, my immediate reaction is, 'I wonder what this person means by 'a normal life?' Don't all kids have a 'public' life that's not completely of their choosing? And the Gosselins don't have a corner on putting their kids in public situations where 'the whole world' can see their missteps. Kids strike out with the bases loaded and are traumatized by that, kids have memory slips at piano recitals and are scarred for life by the experience. I don't think any of those kids are thinking at that moment, 'At least it wasn't millions of people seeing me mess up!'
I get impatient with all the viewer predictions about what each Gosselin kids' personal childhood trauma will be, and it's always related to the filming. Constipation! The knob off the dresser! The friggin' cupcakes! Just because the blogosphere is all wrapped up in the show and its own reaction to the show doesn't mean that the Gosselin kids think it's the be-all, end-all. Even though their parents chose it, it is the kids' lives, even though it might be strange to some of us. They'll choose what they think is their own personal childhood traumas, and I just think it's arrogant to write their life story for them just because we see 2o-whatever minutes out of a week of their life.
To me it's not such an issue for someone to say that the Gosselin children are not leading a 'normal' life. My definition of normal would be usual, ordinary, typical, common, average, conventional. The Gosselin children do not lead an ordinary, typical, average, conventional life. That's not to say that they won't grow up to be just fine and dandy, I just don't think having the opinion that they don't live a normal life is such a negative connotation. In my opinion the family lives a very extraordinary life.
Well, they seemed to say that they would no longer be using the BLAH-BLAH Love Seat.
Hopefully, that means we will just see more of the kids being kids and much less of the parent's blah blah blah from the set.
I agree with Eileen, the Gosselin kids aren't living a "normal" life but they still have every chance at having a happy future.
I just worry that because of all the negative stuff surrounding the family the Gosselin kids may be negatively impacted by their parents decisions. There is a lot of mean and cruel stuff about the children floating around out there and who's to say the kids aren't hearing about it?
I agree that the Gosselin kids' lives are not average. But the definition of normal that was being used seemed to be more in line with "healthy" or "desirable". A lot of what's "normal" isn't either. I would say it is normal for families to be dysfunctional, but not healthy or desirable.
(Why do I have the feeling I'm going to be accused of nitpicking? :-)
I think I get what your saying Guin, and really normal is all relative. I just hope the Gosselin's are happy, healthy, and have some resemblance of a "normal", private life.
You can nitpick, Guinevere, in fact, in my opinion, I think that's quite 'normal'.
I just worry that because of all the negative stuff surrounding the family the Gosselin kids may be negatively impacted by their parents decisions. There is a lot of mean and cruel stuff about the children floating around out there and who's to say the kids aren't hearing about it?
That's something that famous families can arm their children against, in the same way that the typical family teaches their kids the rules of life: there are bullies out there (on the internet and in real life) kids (and adults) can be mean, ignore, ignore, ignore, and all the rest.
The Gosselin kids can live their lives without ever having to concern themselves with any of the online chatter. As much as some online communities would like to think they're crusading for a cause, it's really not anything more than gossip and chatter. It's words. It's sticks and stones.
That's something that famous families can arm their children against, in the same way that the typical family teaches their kids the rules of life: there are bullies out there (on the internet and in real life) kids (and adults) can be mean, ignore, ignore, ignore, and all the rest.
The Gosselin kids can live their lives without ever having to concern themselves with any of the online chatter. As much as some online communities would like to think they're crusading for a cause, it's really not anything more than gossip and chatter. It's words. It's sticks and stones.
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Im not saying that the Gosselin kids are looking it up, Im just saying that kids at school will have no doubt heard things and kids are often mean, especially teenage girls. The twins are fast approaching their teen years and bullies are mean. Yes its just words but words do hurt. Not everybody has thick enough skin to deal with the bullying that teenage girls dish out.
I don't think that the show has necessarily "run its course." I really don't think there's the danger of that until all eight are in school full time. The cameras do not go to school with them, so what is left to show, besides the weekends? Therefore, with the curiosity of the tups starting kindergarten, I still see another season or two. Plus, the show's popularity is higher than ever. I was actually SHOCKED at the amount of people on the official J&K Facebook group. 360,000 Sheeple Strong (and those are only Sheeple that are on Facebook)! That certainly dwarfs the number of haters posting on the "advocates" site (and no, you can't count the amount of hits on GWoP. For all we know, it's the same 10 lonely women who can't tear themselves away from a computer long enough to see daylight, who keep refreshing over and over and over).
I was reading a popular sports/media blog based in Chicago, and J&K were even mentioned there. The blogger is a stay at home dad (he's an author who's published several books and works out of the home). Here was his reaction:
Do you watch the show Jon & Kate plus 8? I must admit, [the wife] is a big fan, and when she turns it on, I sometimes watch it with her.
I can watch it for about five minutes before I start having a seizure imagining what life must be like with 8 children under the age of 8 (including sextuplets, that I think are either 3 or 4.)
According to this article, they may be experiencing some marital problems after Jon was spotted playing beer pong with some college girls. I'm not condoning his behavior, but I will say this: If I lived in that house, I would have been caught playing whiskey pong.
Amen. It's such a nitpicky non-issue. My GOD.
Yes its just words but words do hurt. Not everybody has thick enough skin to deal with the bullying that teenage girls dish out.
Jacelynn, I just object to the actions of bullies being the reason to do or not do anything. I hate living by the bullies' rules: don't step out of the norm, don't show that you're human, don't do anything that will make people notice you, or the Bullies will have ammunition to use against you. Screw that. I haven't seen the Gosselin kids do anything that's not just plain old human kid nature. Why do people talk as if they should be afraid? Maybe if the rest of us weren't afraid to be human, and just admitted that our kids aren't perfect either, none of us would have to give a crap about what bullies think.
Well, I agree with everything you say Tyra, but, I also see Jacelynn's point. If we lived in a perfect world no one would have to worry about the retribution of bullies for their actions. Unfortunately we all live in the real world. And words hurt a lot. It's obvious to me from reading the many comments here that words hurt even grown women. It's easier said than done to grow a thick skin and just ignore the bullies. It's almost an impossibility to ignore hurtful, hateful remarks, even when they are lobbed at you by complete strangers.
Tyra, yes the Gosselin kids should be able to live like kids, but their parents are giving the bullies ammunition. I don't think its about admitting that your kids aren't perfect, and it doesn't matter if you care what bullies think, the fact is that there ARE bullies and there will ALWAYS be bullies. I don't think your understanding of the bulling concept is spot on, mine isn't either, but the fact is that Jon and Kate are providing bullies with "ammunition".
Thank you Eileen! You said it even better than I did.
Um, Jacelynn, we think a lot alike. This is getting scary.
Maybe you're my long lost daughter? Maybe you were switched at birth with one I took home? Because my girls and I are usually on opposite poles on all subjects!
I'm having trouble posting again. If this doesn't go through, I'm giving up for the rest of the day!
Tyra, yes the Gosselin kids should be able to live like kids, but their parents are giving the bullies ammunition. I don't think its about admitting that your kids aren't perfect, and it doesn't matter if you care what bullies think, the fact is that there ARE bullies and there will ALWAYS be bullies. I don't think your understanding of the bulling concept is spot on, mine isn't either, but the fact is that Jon and Kate are providing bullies with "ammunition".
If we bystanders would change our attitudes and quit giving credence to what bullies think and do, they wouldn't have as much power as they do, that's my perspective. They don't deserve it. They don't deserve a second thought from anyone. (That goes for piggies in their pen, also.) We as viewers even go so far as to speculate about what the bullies might think is good ammunition against the Gosselin kids (potty training???!!!?) Bullies don't just get their power from their victims, they get it from bystanders who let the status quo stand. I don't think we should buy into it, or treat it as if there's nothing we can do about it. The very least we can do is not participate by treating bullies as if they have the power they like to see themselves having.
Eileen, thanks, lol my mom and I are usually completely opposite too and my girls aren't old enough to really tell yet..... one is 5 and the other 3 1/2. :)
Tyra: I don't think Im contributing the potential bullies of the Gosselin children. And I really don't think that WE are giving the bullies any power. And its not about the power the bullies have or don't have, the fact is that if the Gosselin kids were to be bullied, and who knows if they are?, there are a lot of things a bully could use because of their TV show.
while they started the show to support themselves, they need the show to continue the lifestyle they want to live. If Jon no longer wanted to do the show, but feels he has to, what other choices will they make for financial reasons?
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This makes me think of Ed McMann (sp?) (McMahn?)who can't afford to make the payments on his multimillion dollar home. Boo hoo, how sad.
I think I heard that Donald Trump bought the McMann (McMahan?) mansion so it didn't foreclose, and the McMann's now make their payments to Donald Trump.
What in the heck is wrong with changing to a more simple life style?
We have always known money can't buy happiness. Living the simple live can sure get rid of a whole lot of stress!
I agree with Nancy Week. IMO the kids looked much happier before the started "living the life". I think it would be stressful for the kids the way they live now, Jon and Kate are stressed (IMO) and no matter how hard you try some of that will rub off on your kids.
Tyra: I don't think Im contributing the potential bullies of the Gosselin children. And I really don't think that WE are giving the bullies any power. And its not about the power the bullies have or don't have, the fact is that if the Gosselin kids were to be bullied, and who knows if they are?, there are a lot of things a bully could use because of their TV show.
No, I don't think you personally are contributing to a particular bully. I'm talking about a general attitude I see reflected in many places, and somewhat in your comments. If the question is 'Where is the line that should be drawn in relation to the children's privacy and should certain things be shown because of issues related to privacy,' I think that's a different subject, and more worthy of discussion (though maybe irresolvable) than, 'The Gosselins have exposed their children to bullies, and that's why they shouldn't be doing what they're doing.' I put it in the same category as those arguments that say 'Pedophiles might be looking at the children, and therefore the tv show is wrong!!' Spurious.
Actually Tyra I do think part of the reason they shouldn't continue with the show is because they have knowingly fed the jealous/rude bully types. Its not the only reason I think they should stop but it is one. I also think that they should consider the fact that pedophiles could be watching the children, especially since they give out so many personal things about the kids. And I do think this topic is worthy of a discussion but if you don't want to discuss it that is fine by me. You called me out, all I did was say what I thought.
Actually Tyra I do think part of the reason they shouldn't continue with the show is because they have knowingly fed the jealous/rude bully types. Its not the only reason I think they should stop but it is one. I also think that they should consider the fact that pedophiles could be watching the children, especially since they give out so many personal things about the kids. And I do think this topic is worthy of a discussion but if you don't want to discuss it that is fine by me. You called me out, all I did was say what I thought.
Discussing it is exactly what I'm doing. I, too, am saying exactly what I think. Why are you labeling it as me 'calling you out'? I challenged your opinion, certainly, but that doesn't have anything to do with you personally, or mean that I am 'calling you out'.
The pedophile argument strikes me as spurious because it is based on the imagined actions and thoughts of imagined pedophiles.
Tyra; I said you called me out because you said that my arguments and thoughts on the Gosselin children and bullies are not worthy of discussion. Pedophiles are not imaginary and maybe in your idealistic world where bullies just go away if you ignore them they are but the fact is that there are pedophiles everywhere. I feel like Im just going around and around repeating myself so how about we just agree to disagree on the potential problems the Gosselin kids may face regarding bullies?
My point is that the argument about the pedophile shouldn't be based on what a pedophile might think or do, because, 1) there's no real answer to that and 2) why even try to understand or predict the way they think? I think the argument should be framed around what we actually see: are the kids being objectified? Are the kids being turned into physical objects? I think there is a line somewhere that you could cross in filming kids. I think the discussion lies in whether that line has been crossed in this case.
You know, in looking over my wording, I do see that I said 'more worthy of discussion' in comparing the way you're framing the argument, and the way I'm framing the argument. That was poor wording on my part, and I apologize for that. I simply disagree with the focus of your argument.
Tyra; No problem but next time you want to get in an argument with somebody remember what you said and compile your sentences and arguments carefully and wisely. I learned this the hard way.
If we don't guess and assume what people will do how can we protect our selves? Thats like saying a young lady should walk down a dark alley in a short skirt and not expect anything bad to happen. Its just not possible. You have to predict the consequences to decisions in order to make wise decisions, and to predict consequences includes, IMO, what others reactions are going to be. Its just the way the world is, in a perfect world you could do what ever you want without negative consequences but its not a perfect world.
Kids who want to tease or bully other kids will find a reason or make one up. I think whether or not the G kids are bullied depends on how they treat other kids. We know they are going to be good looking, they seem to be of at least average intelligence, so unless they are really obnoxious
maybe the majority of their peers will want to be friends with them.
And having seven siblings (and Kate as a mother) should help prepare them for dealing with other people and making themselves heard. Plus, if someone picks on them there are all those other sibs to back them up.
There is also the possibility that they will be the bullies rather than the bullied. I hope not, but again they have that built in gang.
You have kids and you hope for the best and teach them how to behave and react to things, but you just don't know how things will turn out. As long as you're not breaking any laws, you have to live your life they way that's best for you and your family, not the way other people think you should live it. Whatever you do, someone will find fault.
Kikibee, I agree with most of what you said however, the only thing Im not sure Im getting is living your life the way you see fit. I agree with that, I just wonder if the way the Gosselins are living their life is going to have a negative effect on the children.
Im sure this has been discussed many times on this blog and I completely understand that there is no easy or right answer, only time will tell the effects the TV show had on the children. I really, really hope its a positive effect but with the way some children behave these days (not the Gs) Im kinda worried J&K are creating a breeding ground for possible dangerous situations.
Tyra; No problem but next time you want to get in an argument with somebody remember what you said and compile your sentences and arguments carefully and wisely. I learned this the hard way.
That is an extremely rude way to respond to an apology.
I agree with Tyra and Kikibee: the possibility that the Gosselin children will be teased or bullied about their appearances on TV is not, IMO, a good reason for the show to end or for it not to exist. They may or may not be teased or bullied anyway, and the best thing the Gosselin parents can do, that ANY parent can do, is to give their children the tools to fight bullies. That means helping to build their self-esteem and teaching them how to deal with difficult people.
I know that it's not meant this way, but there's something sad about the message that the way to deal with bullies is to attempt not to stand out. Children should not be raised to be afraid of being different; I think doing so can stunt a child's potential. Then the child loses and society as a whole is poorer.
This makes me think of Ed McMann (sp?) (McMahn?)who can't afford to make the payments on his multimillion dollar home. Boo hoo, how sad.
I think I heard that Donald Trump bought the McMann (McMahan?) mansion so it didn't foreclose, and the McMann's now make their payments to Donald Trump.
What in the heck is wrong with changing to a more simple life style?
We have always known money can't buy happiness. Living the simple live can sure get rid of a whole lot of stress!
There's nothing wrong with the simple life. There's also nothing inherently wrong about trying to better oneself and one's lot in life. Poverty is stressful. Poverty with a lot of kids, even moreso.
Living a more modest life does not automatically make one more virtuous, nor does it, in and of itself, "buy happiness". You may believe that the Gosselins are pursuing the wrong goals for the wrong reasons, but I don't believe in romanticizing the difficulty they would have had supporting eight children on their two incomes, nor do I totally discount the life-enriching experiences the show has brought the kids.
It's been said before, but it's about a balance. It's not all good or all bad. I think most people who are okay with the Gosselins' choices understand that there are negative aspects to their decision to do the show. I'm not sure if their more fervent detractors get that there are positive aspects; they seem to constantly discount them when they are brought up.
Tyra: Ya well I feel like you weren't very nice to me......
Guin: Its not the only reason I think they should stop, its simply one of many.
Guin: Its not the only reason I think they should stop, its simply one of many.
Fair enough. I almost did say that I think there are other valid reasons for believing the show should end. I just don't believe the kids-getting-bullied is a valid one.
Jacelynn, I don't necessarily
"approve" of putting your life on tv (I sure wouldn't do it) but I don't think that makes it bad for someone else. And it's not that strange in today's society. People put all their business out there on the internet, people are "caught on tape" and shown on tv, now there are other families
"living" on camera. It's not like
"OMG, I can't believe that family is on tv. That's just unbelievable!" When I was a kid, it would have been thought crazy (actually, that's when the Loud family was on PBS, and people did think it was crazy). Nowadays,
it's pretty much just accepted.
The thing is, everyone has to decide for themselves whether the way they are living is good for them and their family. One person
(or couple) may think something they are doing
"might" cause problems down the road and decide to stop it. Another couple thinks their family is doing very well and thinks the advantages they know they have outweigh any "theoretical" problems that may come up.
There are things that could come up with any family, not just one on tv. Only the people involved really know what's going on, and you just have to hope they make the right decision.
Also, I don't think J&K would necessarily be happier if they were still living their old life.
I can imagine Kate being unhappy being the main breadwinner (which is a likely scenario) which would lead to problems.
Kikibee, I don't recall saying it was strange, but no I certainly wouldn't do it. Also I do think they would be happier without the stress the show, book writing, and engagements puts on the. Even Jon said that he misses being just Jon.
Guin: I don't think its a valid excuse by itself but I think there are a lot of other factors, many of which Im sure we don't know about, that combined should be looked at. And in my opinion the combined factors is enough to stop the show.
I didn't mean to imply that you said it was "strange", I was just
commenting, as regards to "living your life as you see fit", that while it's not how "I" would live my life, I can see how other people would find it reasonable.
Or something to that effect.
Also I do think they would be happier without the stress the show, book writing, and engagements puts on the. Even Jon said that he misses being just Jon.
I think this may be the difference between those that feel the show should end and those that feel that it's the Gosselins' decision - I can't imagine thinking that I KNOW what would make total strangers happy.
I understand your point about Jon, but just have to reiterate that he said that (the only time I've heard him express reservations about the show) apparently right around the time that he was getting some very negative publicity.
Guinevere said..
I think this may be the difference between those that feel the show should end and those that feel that it's the Gosselins' decision - I can't imagine thinking that I KNOW what would make total strangers happy.
I understand your point about Jon, but just have to reiterate that he said that (the only time I've heard him express reservations about the show) apparently right around the time that he was getting some very negative publicity.
April 8, 2009 10:39 PM
Exactly how I see it too, Guin.
Kickibee said..
The thing is, everyone has to decide for themselves whether the way they are living is good for them and their family. One person
(or couple) may think something they are doing
"might" cause problems down the road and decide to stop it. Another couple thinks their family is doing very well and thinks the advantages they know they have outweigh any "theoretical" problems that may come up.
BINGO! That's what I believe too Kickibee. Those who are regular readers here, know that I have always said, it's J&K's choice. It's their family and their decision(s).
What you have said Kickibee is really the bottom line in this whole "should the Gosselins continue on tv or not" debate.
Everyone has their own beleifs and can argue pro or con, but eventually and it always has been, only one couple's (J&K's) decision to make for their family. Some may like it, some may not. So be it.
I don't think anyone here would argue that the decision for how the Gosselin family should go forward would lie with anyone but Jon & Kate Gosselin. But it's obvious that people like to debate that issue (hence the many blogs on the subject) and most people argue based on how they would conduct themselves if placed in the very same situation, which I think is how we argue most points. Most of us have no problem judging Nadya Suleman because her lifestyle and decisions are so far removed from what we deem 'normal' (there's that word again), and I think in the case of Jon & Kate they are deemed somewhat above/below the norm too, so their lifestyle and decisions get judged too.
Do I think Nadya would be happier if she didn't allow a Reality TV show? No, she would not be happier but I think it would be in the best interest of her children (all her children, not just the preemies) to not have a Reality TV show. It is not my decision though.
Do I think Jon Kate would be happier if they stopped the show now? Well, I do not think Kate would be happy based on what I've heard she said about being very happy, Jon might be happier based on what I've heard, and again, I think it would be in the best interest of the children to stop the show. For myself, I don't like the idea of children living under a public microscope. Again, it is not my decision to make.
We're all just throwing out our opinions here.
Having trouble posting again. This will be my last try.
Eileen said... I don't like the idea of children living under a public microscope.
That's my objection in a nutshell.
I have always said I wouldn't do it, until I read Kate's book and realized they had no dependable income before this show. If my choice were between being dependent on others, dirt poor, and a private life, versus rich, independent, and on TV, I think you might see "Saint's Family" on TLC. I'd hate it (as I suspect Kate did at first) and I'd never sustain an audience, but I'd take the leap to get out from under twenty-four volunteers and begging for help from the Salvation Army.
I know people will think, "They had more than those 2 choices." At the time they started? I don't think so.
As for season 5? I wouldn't do it. There are other choices now.
I didn't weigh in on the bullying issue, before. I've learned from recent experience that living your life without regard for a bullies' reaction is best. So I'd say that bullies don't concern me.
Guin: Actually if you go back a few seasons, even to the first hour specials they ARE happier and nicer to each other. I think their fame and all the stress that goes with their new life style is taking its tole. And regarding what Jon said, I think it should still be taken into account, he is tired of living in front of the cameras, "I can't be just Jon anymore Im Jon from Jon and Kate plus 8".
I don't think anyone here would argue that the decision for how the Gosselin family should go forward would lie with anyone but Jon & Kate Gosselin. But it's obvious that people like to debate that issue (hence the many blogs on the subject) and most people argue based on how they would conduct themselves if placed in the very same situation, which I think is how we argue most points.
We're all just throwing out our opinions here.
Yeah, and I'm certainly not trying to discourage anyone from expressing her opinion. Sometimes it's just semantics to me - "J&K and the kids look unhappy" v. "J&K and the kids are unhappy" or "if it were me, I would end the show once I was financially secure" v. "J&K should end the show." Debate is great, but sometimes I think we debate with assumptions (like that the Gosselins are financially secure at this point) versus actual known facts.
Guin: Actually if you go back a few seasons, even to the first hour specials they ARE happier and nicer to each other. I think their fame and all the stress that goes with their new life style is taking its tole. And regarding what Jon said, I think it should still be taken into account, he is tired of living in front of the cameras, "I can't be just Jon anymore Im Jon from Jon and Kate plus 8".
I think you can say they were nicer to each other (which could be chalked up to being on better behavior for the cameras), but I don't know how you can say they were happier. We really don't know what's in their hearts. We don't even know what they do or say when the cameras are turned off. Really, we feel like we know the Gosselins, but what we don't know amounts to a whole lot more than what we do (IMO, obviously).
I'm not discounting Jon's unhappiness in the last interview, merely trying to put it in context - since it is out of step, I think, with the way he has talked about the show in every other interview I've ever seen.
If Jon wants to stop the show, he does have that power. We're not making him do the show, nor is TLC, nor is Kate. She may dominate him, but that is with his consent/participation. He's an adult just as much as she is. (Unlike the kids. To the extent that I worry about the show or the kids, I do think that even the parents' stated intent to respect their childrens' wishes about filming is fraught with potential pitfalls. The kids, especially the 4-year-olds, are too young to make informed decisions about being on the show. They may feel tacit pressure to continue. I'm not saying any of this is the case, but I've been encouraged by the greater absence and privacy of Mady and Cara - it seems likely that that's their choice, and I take it as evidence that their wants are being given consideration.)
Guin, I agree, we are not behind the scenes so we can't know for sure what the family dynamics are. We can only make assumptions on what we see. Each side of the argument is only surmising, there really is no right or wrong (or at least no way to prove your opinion is right or wrong until the family offers more information, or someone does an in-depth investigation on them with proof to back up any information, but I can't see the Gosselin Family being 'vetted'). I think it's like I said about how we all judge them by our standards, and because we 'know' how we would feel or act in certain situations we attribute those feelings to others.
I don't 'know' how Sarah Palin felt during the election but I know how I would have felt if it were me and my family in the news in such a negative way and I attributed my feelings to her. I think it's the same with people doing that with Jon and with the kids.
Kate we know is happy if we take what she says at face value. Jon is not if we take what he last said at face value. The kids we can only guess at their feelings, so we attribute our feelings to them.
Oh, this is getting too deep for me. I hope this makes sense to someone.
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