Friday, July 25, 2008

The Four Types of Haters

Submitted for publication by Guinevere.

I’ve come to the conclusion that the vocal minority of “Jon and Kate Plus Eight” haters can be divided up roughly into four types:

When Love Turns to Hate: These are the people who write posts stating that they have sent the Gosselin children gifts in the past, or that they had previously admired Kate so much and thought that “if Kate can do it, so can I!” I must admit I can’t really relate to this type of thinking – I’ve watched a lot of reality television over the years, and liked and disliked a lot of the personalities I encountered on these shows. I’m sure there are people I have admired, but never to the degree that these people seem to, where they feel the need to try to make a personal connection, or attribute virtues to the personalities that they may or may not possess. I also don’t understand how you wake up one morning and suddenly realize that, yeah, Kate is kind of a controlling beeyotch (seriously, you didn’t notice this before?) and that you actually disapprove of people putting their kids on TV. The only part I guess I kind of understand is that these posters had obviously put J&K on a pedestal, and that often doesn’t end well. I wish these people would recognize that their mistake was not understanding in the first place that J&K are real human beings, with virtues and flaws, and should not necessarily be held up as “role models” for anything.

My Mother Was a ________, So I Know: These posters identify Kate as having some sort of psychological disorder; let’s say, for the sake of discussion, narcissism. How do they know? Well, it just so happens they grew up with a narcissist, and Kate displays various characteristics that fit the profile, in their opinion. Putting aside for a moment the ethical and logistical issues inherent in diagnosing someone through an edited television show, it’s pretty obvious to me that these posters are coming in with an ax to grind. They’re angry, possibly with good reason. But they take anger that should be directed at their parents or caregivers or whoever and put it on Kate Gosselin, a process I believe (I’m certainly no psychologist) is called transference. I feel for these people, I really do, but I would suggest that they work out their issues with a trained professional instead of venting their rage over past hurts onto a person they watch on TV. The latter is not the way to healing, IMO.

Just Jealous: Yes, I know that most Gosselin haters will deny up, down and sideways that they are remotely jealous of Jon and Kate. Often, their comments tell a different story. Why do they care that Kate got a free tummy tuck? That Jon got a free hair transplant? Why do they comment on J&K not working (at traditional jobs) or not “earning” the money they get from the show and their speaking appearances? Why do they lament the ski trip to Utah and complain “no one ever gave anything like that to (them)”? What are we supposed to call it, if not jealousy or envy?

I think there are two ways of looking at the world and one’s place in it. It comes down to seeing the glass as half full or half empty, trite as that is. It’s not like I don’t ever wonder why a skank like Paris Hilton has everything, and I’m often just scraping by. But I try to spend a lot more time thanking my lucky stars for my standard of living, which far exceeds that of most people in the world. Things could be better for me, but they could easily be a lot, lot worse. Also, as your mother may have told you, life is not fair. Maybe J&K didn’t “earn” everything they have by your definition of the word. Deal with it. They are hardly alone in that.

Just Don’t Like Kate: Look, I get it. Kate Gosselin can be…challenging. I can’t, and won’t, defend her every action. I think, for myself at least, when I like someone on reality TV, I feel about them sort of the way I do about a friend (though I am not under the misapprehension that Kate and I are friends). Meaning, I am willing to cut her a little more slack and try to understand where she’s coming from when she acts badly. If I were her friend, I would have been on the phone to her after this past Monday’s show, telling her, “Kate, you know I love you, but you need to learn to apologize and admit when you’re wrong. I know it’s scary, I know you felt justified at the time and maybe even feel somewhat justified now, but you were wrong and you need to apologize and not add on any qualifiers.”

So, Kate’s not perfect. Who is? What is interesting to me is the ways in which Kate isn’t perfect, and how that informs the criticism she receives. If I may be permitted a meta-generalization, women are our own worst critics. A few minutes on the forums of a site like TWoP yields plenty of evidence of that. It was at TWoP that I first encountered many of the same people who now populate the anti-Gosselin site. The bile directed towards Kate, the catty, petty, mean nature of most of the complaints about her genuinely offended me. Furthermore, the sexism of many of the posts was simply depressing. The constant refrain of “Jon, grow some balls” wore me out. Did these posters truly believe that because Kate was the more dominant partner, Jon had lost his manhood? What a backward, sexist, outdated notion. I’ve also been disturbed by the way that Kate is compared to (and found wanting in the comparison) the more traditionally sweet and maternal Jodi. I like Jodi fine, but not all women are like that. Some are like Kate – bossy and neurotic and sarcastic. There should be more than one acceptable way for a woman to be. I honestly think many of these Kate haters genuinely don’t like strong, assertive women. It’s the old “is she a strong woman or is she a bitch?” question. Kate is a strong woman who can sometimes be a bitch, and that’s okay.

So, what’s my point? Maybe I don’t have one, except to say that I find it hard to take the anti-Gosselin folks seriously, because they so obviously have Issues. The “we’re just concerned about the children” mantra is one that they started up rather late, and one that is contradicted every day online by their obsession with issues that have nothing to do with concern for the Gosselin children. I do fervently wish that these people would turn their TV sets off and dedicate their obviously boundless energy to real problems. The world would truly be a better place.


Anonymous said...

Kate is truly neither a " strong woman or a bitch." She is just a woman in need of a lot of help.

Anya said...

I find Kate a fascinating woman from a number of different standpoints. IMO, she does have a strong personality. I also think she is overall a strong woman, but on the flip side, she gets overwhelmed easily with small issues. She can be bitchy (as we all can), but can be very loving.

Does she need "help"? I assume you are referring to "help" in the sense that she needs to see a shrink. I'd say it couldn't hurt. My sister and I have discussed how some anti-anxiety/depression meds might do her a lot of good (we speak from personal experience). Beyond that, I think both Jon and Kate would benefit from seeing a communication coach because they communicate very differently and it tends to cause friction.

Now these are just opinions based on seeing the show. I make no judgements because I don't think Kate is any more messed up than anyone else walking around or posting on message boards/blogs. We just get to see her "issues" on the screen every Monday....

Anonymous said...

I've seen on several of the boards where people compare Kate to their mothers and put a label on her. This is from seeing a 30 minute edited episode on TV and never spending a minute with her. This is something I don't understand really. But I guess that is human nature. I often wondered what their own relationships are with their parents, sisters, brothers, husbands and children.

Jules said...

Is that how everything should be handled-"I do fervently wish that these people would turn their TV sets off and dedicate their obviously boundless energy to real problems. The world would truly be a better place." Do you determine what is a real problem? People were probably saying the same thing back when Coogan's law was put in place. Thank God someone didn't just turn off their TV sets back then.

Anya said...

I won’t speak for Guinevere, but for myself. You will notice the post refers to the “Gosselin Haters”. Judged solely by a quick peak at one of the blogs they post most frequently on, it would appear that the Haters have lots of concerns more pressing than extending Coogan’s law to children on reality TV.

What are they up in arms about? Why the #1 outrage appears to be that psst…word on the street is…J&K and the kids MAY get a free trip to Hawaii! And POSSIBLY a partially subsidized new home! Also, Kate MAY not be a very nice sister-in-law/friend/daughter/mother/wife/neighbor. And don’t forget – J&K MAY have put up what some consider a very rude sign on their front lawn!

The Coogan stuff, yeah, that gets brought up from time to time, but it’s commingled with countless posts like the ones discussed above.

I am not going to tell anyone how to live their life, but I do think there are more productive things to do in one’s life than spending hours discussing a house sign!

As an aside, Wikipedia says Coogan’s law passed in 1939. How many people had TV’s to turn off in 1939? A handful?!?

Anonymous said...

Bravo Guinevere! I think you hit the nail on the head with that one. I watch the show and while I can see that kate's not perfect, who is? I'm not sure what the "haters" want from her. If she does one thing it's wrong and if she does the opposite it's worse. I've read comments calling for the cameras to stop filming the kids citing invasion of privacy, followed by comments that ask that tlc leave j+k out and show more of the kids.

There has to be some other issue here other than sheer hatred. How could you, and why would you put so much energy into utterly hating someone you don't know?

Guinevere said...

Quote: Is that how everything should be handled-"I do fervently wish that these people would turn their TV sets off and dedicate their obviously boundless energy to real problems. The world would truly be a better place." Do you determine what is a real problem?

I can determine what *I* think is a real problem. To me, the "problem" in the J&K v. the haters dynamic is NOT J&K not giving their kids cupcakes or Kate getting pissy over some gum. It's people who seem to me to be increasingly disturbed and obsessed with people they don't even know, and appear to spend about 23 hours a day thinking up ways to try to destroy these people. I see at least some, though not all, of the GWoPpers as out of touch with reality. They harbor an irrational hate for Kate Gosselin, and when you call them on it they sanctimonously cloak their behavior as being motivated by "concern for the children." I can't know for sure, but I bet dollars to donuts that virtually every regular at GWoP went from liking J&K (the show, if not the people), to enjoying "snarking" on them on TWoP (running down Kate for her organic fluffernutters and her supposedly big ass), to suddenly deciding that the whole concept of kids on reality tv was one that needed to be stamped out forevermore.

If you step outside the GWoP groupthink, you'll find a lot of other sites where the GWoPpers' shenanigans are discussed and the consensus appears to be that they are stone crazy.


If I recall, I came across an article on another site that was titled "Reasons Why We Are Not Jealous of Jon and Kate." In the comment section people consistently referred to the organic chef, nanny, housekeeper and any other help that they might have. I live in an area of the United States where my neighbors, friends and co-workers utilize many of the services mentioned above. Why are Jon and Kate any different? Why is this something that is mentioned over and over again in a negative way. Jealousy is the only thing that comes to my mind.

Anonymous said...

No one wants Kate to be perfect - hey just a rational human being who treats her husband and children with some respect would be nice! This is not coming from a woman's perspective but from a man's. I watch this show with my wife and kids and I am in total shock every week on how this woman behaves. I am not a hater but this woman needs some help.

anya said...

I live in an area of the United States where my neighbors, friends and co-workers utilize many of the services mentioned above. Why are Jon and Kate any different? Why is this something that is mentioned over and over again in a negative way.

I agree. The degree to which many people focus on it says more about them than the Gosselins. I would agree that the Gosselins bring some of it on themselves, when they (particularly Kate) talk about being tired or what a struggle everything is. I think if one is honest, however, even with some of the help they get, they have a lot going and a lot to keep track of. I would be tired for sure! Plus, I think Kate is someone who is used to complaining about being exhausted. Sometimes it's just a habit. In my family, the women all do it...
I am not a hater but this woman needs some help.

Many of us who defend Kate do not defend all her actions. She IS frequently condescending to Jon. She is bossy. Some "help" might not be a bad idea. That said, this does not excuse bloggers who spend countless hours thinking and typing of up ways to "put her in her place" and speak of her as if she would come in second place to Susan Smith in a mothering contest. said...

I am not jealous or a hater of the Gosselins. However, I first tuned in to see how a family took care of a bunch of newborns/toddlers.
I do not like sitting there watching them having their teeth whitened, hair transplants, etc...I wouldn't sit and watch a relative have their teeth whitened, either. I guess what I am saying is that we are DISAPPOINTED with what the show has become. It's not that interesting anymore, because the kids are growing up some and don't need as much constant care as when they were born. The show has "jumped the shark". We are just waiting for the producers to realize that.
Just because we do not like what the show has become, does not mean that we are haters. Maybe some of us are discriminating TV watchers, ya never know!

anya said...

"Just because we do not like what the show has become, does not mean that we are haters. Maybe some of us are discriminating TV watchers, ya never know!"

I think you have a solid point. I have posted many times in defense of J&K, but believe me, the hair plug episode was not one of my favorites either! I too want to see more of the kids. Of course, it's a balancing act. Others are concerned that the kids are followed around too much with the cameras....

I think the show can still be interesting. Four-year-olds are quite interesting creatures! The tups are starting to talk more and we are starting to see more of their individual personalities. For me, anyway, the show has not jumped the shark, but we will see how the next few episodes play out. Personally, I am hoping for less tension between J&K and more Alexis!

One last note, the term "haters" IMO really refers to a very small select group who really do HATE the Gosselins (Kate), NOT those individuals who have problems with certain aspects of the show or question some of the Gosselin's choices.

Guinevere said...

Quote: No one wants Kate to be perfect - hey just a rational human being who treats her husband and children with some respect would be nice! This is not coming from a woman's perspective but from a man's. I watch this show with my wife and kids and I am in total shock every week on how this woman behaves.

I maintain that Jon is partly responsible for this. Yes, Kate is responsible for the way she talks to him. But she doesn't just treat him like one of her kids - he acts like one of her kids. When she starts talking down to him, he gets this "I'm a cute little boy being scolded by my mommy" look on his face, or he says something like, "I'm just not going to say anything." Kate does not always communicate well, but she always communicates. Jon often (usually, really) refuses to do that. Sometimes he seems to think it's cute or a joke, but there have been so many times I wish he would just let Kate know how he expects to be treated. Should she know without him telling her? Maybe. But she's not the only problem in that relationship, by far.

As for how she treats the kids, I don't think she's irrational or not respectful of them. She loses it sometimes, yes. I think that's due to 1) a high-strung personality and 2) the fact that she has EIGHT kids. I mean, almost any mother loses it with her kids now and again, even if they only have one.

What I don't get is the idea that this is the way Kate is with her kids ALL the time. I just don't see that at all. I think most of her interactions with them are loving, some of them are neutral, and a few are crabby. Not that different from any other mom, IMO.

Guinevere said...

markiesnana, no disrespect intended, but I guess if I felt that way about a show, I would stop watching it. I might complain about it on a message board devoted to the show for a couple of weeks, but if it simply stopped interesting me because it turned in a direction that I didn't like, I think I would lose interest in even doing that, after a relatively short time.

I certainly wouldn't posted about it every day, multiple times a day, watch episodes over and over, freeze-framing the screen to scrutinize the expression on Kate Gosselin's face. I wouldn't contact CPS, the IRS, the National Enquirer or churches where the Gosselins had booked speaking engagements to try to make trouble for them. I wouldn't meet face to face with the apparently disgruntled sister of an in-law in order to get as much dirt on the family as possible. I wouldn't track their movements to the degree that I was aware of when they were home and when they were on vacation. I wouldn't drive by their house and post pictures on the internet. I would have no reason to do any of these things, which go far, far above and beyond simply being disappointed in the direction the show has taken. These are the "haters" I'm talking about.

One last thing - I don't blame J&K per se for the hair plug, teeth whitening eps, etc. That's on the producers. Some of the "haters" seem unable to make the distinction; do they think Kate Gosselin sits in an editing bay and puts the show together herself?

Anonymous said...

I have been a member of one of the message boards that was created when the Jon and Kate thread was shut down at Television Without Pity. Here I thought I was joining a board to snark on the show, which was harmless fun. I like watching the show, but at times, I think Kate is a shrew, so I consider myself a balanced fan. I haven't posted on that board for awhile, because the posters are obsessed and becoming creepy with their mission to "take down" the Gosselins. WHY can't I find a place to talk about the show that talks about the good and the bad? Not a Gosselin ass kissing board, but also one that is NOT totally obsessed and negative about EVERYTHING?

Finn said...

For whatever reason, good or bad, there are people who identify or vilify with Jon and Kate Gosselin, Jon and Kate Plus 8, et al.

I watch the show because I think the kids are cute and say funny things. I don't think they should be filmed in the bathroom nor do I think they should reveal that one of the kids sleeps alone in the basement. Overall, I think TLC knows a lot of people like the show for the kids and that's why they've ordered 40 episodes for the new season.

Do I think these kids will be damaged because of the show? Yes and No.

Yes - because kids are cruel and the older ones probably get a lot of shit from the kids at school. It doesn't help that they are described as "the good one" and "the bad one" by their parents.

No - because if they suffer ill effects, that's their parents' fault. A lot of us had to deal with crazy ass parents who didn't always do the right thing and bottomline, we can only go to them for recourse.

Now onto the "haters":

The When Love turns to Hate:
I don't think there are a lot of people who put Kate on a pedestal and then were somehow disenchanted with her. I think there were a lot of people who volunteered their time feeding babies,etc. and who sent diapers and what not who eventually stopped because Kate told them that their clothing did not "match" and asked for gift cards so she could get what she wanted instead. People who are truly needed take what they can get - not bitch because because something is not to their liking.

I think that a lot of people even before the show - had pity or sympathy for Jon and Kate, beause well, shit 6 kids at once is a lot of responsibility and a lot of money.

When things were deemed "not good enough" was when some of the "hating" began. No one likes ingrates.

My Mother was a (blank) so I know.

Like I said, a lot of us grew up with jacked up parents. A lot of us turned out OK despite the fact, but there are a lot of people who didn't. I think the people who deem Kate a narcissist, with OCD, etc. wish someone could have interceded on their behalf, so they might have been better equipped to deal with their own parents.

Do I think that Kate is any of these things? Well, I am not qualified to, but I know that she is "off". No one, I will say, normal freaks out about the shit that she does. So your kid gets ice cream (vanilla mind you) on their clothes - you do not deem them "ruined". Kate, was the dumbass in that situation - because who brings toddlers to an amusement park without a change of clothes? That's just common sense.

My take - it was a fruedian slip on Kate's part. Kate receives free clothes from all of Gymboree's collection - she then sells the clothes for profit at consignement shops. That's why she doesn't want the clothes to get jacked up. When she said "she's ruined" - she was talking about possibly losing that outfit for consignment purposes.

I don't know this to be "for a fact" - but I don't even think you could confirm "a fact" with Jon and Kate themselves, at this point they are saying whatever they can to keep up appearances. BUT in one of the episodes, Kate confirms one of her errands to be "the consignment shop".

Just Jealous
There are a lot of people who say that given the chance to have a tummy tuck, hair plugs, etc. - they would jump at the chance, so to villify Jon or Kate for the same is being "just jealous".

Ok, well, how did they get the chance? Because Jon is such a gifted IT person (check out their website - you decide). Because Kate has a "super" uterus? PLEASE. They get a bunch of stuff because of their kids. Now, if someone offered you the stuff again, but with the caveat that your children may or may not be affected - realistically would you take the chance?

Am I jealous? No. Because I wouldn't do that to my child. I am able bodied, I have a job, if I want a tummy tuck, I'll pay for it myself.

Yes indeed life is not fair, but we are going back to the ingrate stuff here, not to mention, Kate gives off a sense of entitlement to me. Do I have proof - well, that's the vibe I get from watching on the show. There is also an article floating around about her saying "society is responsible for her children". Is it true? I don't know - but like I said nothing is verifable. It is just my opinion.

Regarding the tummy tuck, if you watch the episode, Kate also snuck in a request for a boob job - but got shut down.

Just don't like Kate

I used to defend Kate - because no one unless you are a mother to TWO SETS OF MULTIPLES has an idea what her life is like.

Yet, I don't sympathize with her anymore because I don't understand how she can say she exhausted all the time - she has a person to do her laundry, an organic cook, an endless of supply of minions to do her bidding.

(This was mentioned earlier, that A LOT of people have chefs, nannies etc. the difference is that Jon and Kate don't admit to some of their staff - that would go against the premise of the show.)

I am not on Team Gosselin. I watch the show because of the kids. I think Jon and Kate got caught up in the hype and are enjoying the gravy train. I think that telling people that you had to scrounge for change in your couch to pay your mortgage to get sympathy when in reality a rich relative was supporting you is wrong. People out of the kindness their hearts, whether or not they can afford it, will donate to a cause that pulls at their heartstrings - to manipulate that is wrong.

Also, regarding the people over at GWOP, I don't think they are crazy. If anything, they are very fervent with their convictions - as with some of the people here who call them crazy.

Do I think they are all stalkers? No, but I think that when you are ANTI-Gosselin, you get a lot of "well, how do you know" - that makes people want to "prove" themselves (That goes the same for the Pro-Gosselins). They investigate. Shit, I'll admit to calling the number provided for the Pennsylvania State Treasury to see indeed if the kids had college accounts (that's another story)

Just my two cents.

Anonymous said...

Jon and Kate have definitely gone overboard and let fame go to their heads. However, I draw the line at trying to ruin a family's life out of petty vindictiveness, which is the missive of GWoP to the casual observer, whether the want to admit it or not. When I become that disgusted with the show (and believe me, I'm getting close), I'll simply stop watching. That's the only language TLC or their sponsors understand. Negative attention is still ATTENTION and that's all networks and sponsors care about. If people are talking about the show, good or bad, that suits them just fine.

finn said...

However, I draw the line at trying to ruin a family's life out of petty vindictiveness, which is the missive of GWoP to the casual observer, whether the want to admit it or not.

I admit that I have seen enough to want to see the Gosselin parents get their "comeuppance". If all the rumors are true, they deserve to be exposed. Do I think it will ruin their family? No - without the show the children will be able to live normal lives. Financially ruined - not by a long shot, Jon and Kate are able bodied - they can do what the rest of us common folk do to support our families - they can get a job. For God sakes - don't tell me that they don't have "a nest egg" by now. I am sure if it all ended tomorrow, they would be better than most of us.

Anonymous said...

Absolutely anon. At this point I think the big draw for Gwop and it's mods is the attention it gets. Imo, people who will say anything, true or not, are usually just out for that anyway. It's sad that the people who started that dreadful blog attracted people just like them. Ones who just want someone to listen and agree with them, no matter how mean or hateful or hypocritical they come off.

It is ironic to me that while they desperately want the show off the air, they are only boosting the ratings. And I don't believe for a minute that they don't know it, which makes my first point.

Former GWoP Fan said...

The funniest thing is that the posters at GWoP engage in the same herd mentality that they criticize the defenders or casual fans of the Gosselin's. If you like the show in any way, you're a delusional "sheeple," open to their name calling and assaults on your intelligence and character. They have one particular poster who claims to be a parent herself, yet spends an inordinate amount of time online, investigating the Gosselins and their family members, posting their names and addresses online, e-mailing and calling TLC, child advocacy groups, sponsors and churches that the Gosselins have speaking engagements with, trying to get them burned at the stake. She's talked to reporters and claims that she's the one who tipped off the National Enquirer (and is bound and determined to get more "credible" magazines to write hatchet pieces on the Gosselins). It's creepy and obsessive, yet she's applauded as a hero there. I wonder how often she steps back from the keyboard and tends to her real life.

I left the board when she started posting the names and addresses of family that are not involved in the show, such as Jon's mother. Don't get me started on them sucking up to Aunt Jodi's sister and pumping her for information in their mission to bring the family down. Jon and Kate may not be the model parents they market themselves to be, but the witch hunt going on in the name of "children's rights" is creepy as hell. They don't give two shits about those kids. They're having to much fun high fiving each other every time they can stick it to Jon and Kate.

The whole thing is just disturbing and I, myself, have stepped back. Back from the show and back from associating with those hell bent on making them suffer.

finn said...

I left the board when she started posting the names and addresses of family that are not involved in the show, such as Jon's mother.

Do have a link - because I have never seen addresses on the GWOP board - there was one post referring to the Gosselins address, the person was commenting on sending the "open" letter from the Dionne quints to the McCaugheys to the Gosselins. The comment was posted without the address.

Former GWoP Fan said...

It's on the message board attached to GWOP. Only invited members can see it, but she posted Jon's mother's full name, the name of her current husband (and his occupation), home address, city and state. Did the same for Jon's brothers, and members of Kate's family. If you are a member of that private board, it's quite easy to find. Very creepy and uncool.

finn said...

It's on the message board attached to GWOP. Only invited members can see it, but she posted Jon's mother's full name, the name of her current husband (and his occupation), home address, city and state. Did the same for Jon's brothers, and members of Kate's family. If you are a member of that private board, it's quite easy to find. Very creepy and uncool.

Ok, to be fair, this isn't really on the GWOP board, per se - the public board. If it is by "invitation" only - then that really cannot be counted against the GWOP board. There are probably many other private boards where the members choose to either love or hate the Gosslins.

If it is the proboard you are speaking of, I joined as well - this board has nowhere near the amount of traffic as the GWOP public blog. Even the "supporting characters" folder only has 3 posts and the posts are very generic - no addressess what so ever.

Former GWoP Fan said...

Keep on making excuses and rationalizations, Finn. Over 100 people, including everyone involved in the daily operations of GWOP are members there and can bring all the information they get read into the open, if they choose (and have). It's all about what they can do next, how they can gain the trust of online family members (like Kate's bible thumping younger sister and Aunt Jodi's overly dramatic sister) to get as much ammunition as possible in their crusade. Sheep are not intelligent animals. They will follow in whatever direction that the rest of the herd goes. If the fans that blindly follow and defend the Gosselins are sheep, then what do you call the gang mentality of the Haters? Both sides look like "sheeple" to me.

Anonymous said...

Where is this board at former gwop fan? It didn't DAWN on me that there was a message board attached to the blog!

tallulah said...

I don't know for sure if I would want to read a mean message board, but I would like to know where it is & how to get to it.
I don't like Kate a lot, but I do like the kids and never miss a show. I think the kids should not be filmed so much, but what do I know.

Anonymous said...

It's an invite only board, so I assume you'd have to prove yourself to be a trustworthy hater to be invited.

Anonymous said...

Former GwoP Fan:

Just curious, but how do you have so much inside info? Were you a member of this private board and if so, how did you get invited? Everyone is entitled to change their opinions. Were you a hater that became a lover? I hope you removed yourself from that board considering your current feelings. Please fill us in. Thanks!

Finn said...

Keep on making excuses and rationalizations, Finn.

Wow. Ok. This is a balanced site?

I don't even think we are talking about the same site.

This is the board I have found attached to the GWOP board.

You can register, but it is not by invitation only.

Obviously, you are speaking of something completely different.

I cannot comment on something that was posted on a private board. Also, I noted that for every private board that is a "hate" site, there is one that is a "love" site. If it is private, by invitation only, then it is safe to assume, that the opinion whether love or hate is the majority.

I have never said anything extreme in either way. There are things I enjoy about the show and there are things that I don't - that I question.

There is no need to say I am making excuses or rationalizations.

Maybe you have such a hatred for the GWOP board because your obvious bias was not acknowledged on their board.

Just saying.


"Wow. Ok. This is a balanced site?"

We are trying to post all comments unless they really cross the line. Please e-mail us and let us know what you felt was wrong with this comment.

Also, we would love to have you submit an article with your point of view.

Guinevere said...

Can anyone give me the URL of a Gosselin "love" site? 'Cause I have never seen one. I've never seen anyone who defends the Gosselins (myself included) who does so blindly, or in anything remotely approaching a fangirlish way. From what I've seen since I've read this blog, criticism is perfectly acceptable, and fair criticism can be intelligently discussed. The same can't be said for GWoP - I've gone back to occasionally reading and commenting (even though I shouldn't), and most of my comments never get published. It doesn't appear to have anything to do with their posted criteria (and plenty of anti-Gosselin comments that violate that criteria get published). I can only figure that they try to keep to a ratio of comments about 19-1 anti-Gosselin.

The idea that any of these people is hunting down personal info on the Gosselins' relatives and posting it anywhere on the internet - whether a supposedly "closed" site or an open one - is creepy as hell. Don't these people see how inappropriate their behavior is? Good for you, former GWoP fan, for recognizing it and withdrawing. I think if you want to have a discussion about the show and the Gosselins, you can do so here without being either a sheeple or a hater.

Anonymous said...

GWOP makes no qualms about which side it is on.

Google Gosselin and you will find hundreds of boards who "admire" Kate and find her "inspirational".

This board claims to be balanced but it is very pro Gosselin - every thing else is deemed "hater" or "jealous".

tallulah said...

I don't think it's creepy for someone who is interested in a famous person to try and look up their address or find out other info about them. A lot of fans do it! I am not a fan of Kate and I don't care where the Gosselins live, but some people do.
I really like watching the kids and I don't think Kate is a terrible mom or a great mom, I just think she's a regular mom with too many kids for her to handle and a bad temper.
I asked about the hidden website with the mean comments, but I guess there are enough of those so I don't have to know about them all. I would rather read things that aren't hateful.


From anon 11:21 AM - "This board claims to be balanced but it is very pro Gosselin - every thing else is deemed "hater" or "jealous"."

This board is only as balanced as the people particiapting allow it to be. So far we have posted all comments and articles sent our way. We can not control the thoughts of the readers of this site nor would we want to. We have asked several different people who have left comments such as yours to please submit an article but we are still waiting. Please, invite your fellow bloggers who feel the same way you do to comment or write an article.

Anonymous said...

To: I guess we have nothing better to do.

Regarding the posts claiming the site is pro-Gosselin, you are VERY patient to explain the same point over and over! If these people want more "balance", than they should take the time to write something thoughtful and submit it for publication instead of just whining. It would be interesting to have a balanced discussion with different perspectives. I don't think anyone here is afraid of that.

Also, the term "haters" does NOT (IMO)refer to the majority of people who have issues with aspects of the show or the Gosselins parenting. I think they are relatively few in number, but they make up for it by being the loudest and most frequent posters.

anya said...

Oh look, another "When Love Turns to Hate" post at GWoP was posted today.

Aren't these getting a little tired? They all follow the same template. Nothing new is ever said. The viewer's sudden realization that they hate J&K and all they stand for always follows a particular "gate" (gum, knob, cupcake, etc.).

Like any blog, I know they need to keep new content coming in order to keep the blog relevant, but these posts are so "paint by the numbers" I wonder if it isn't the same writer just switching words and paragraphs around and then claiming to be a new viewer who has suddenly just seen the light.

Former GWoP Fan said...

You know what? I think they just might be "sheeple" over there!