Wednesday, August 6, 2008

Do You Agree?

Submitted by Lauri

I just sent a request to the GWoP site for a post...I will leave the same comment here. This is my own opinion, so please don't slay me!!!Here goes...Sent to GWoP blogger:I have been an avid reader of this site for a few months and have with a morbid fascination tuned in to watch the Jon bashing, mocking of Joel's lisp, obvious disregard for Mady's need for some type of counseling, and yes even Kate's hair. I am in complete agreement with this site regarding the need for these kids and the family as a unit to seek some outside support and stop the exploitation. With that said, I have to stop and wonder if this is not truly over the top? With the new anti-GWoP site up and the obvious war between both sites, as well as deep digging into the Gosselin past, and finally the personal digs at one another...enough is enough! While TLC may be getting a lot of hate mail regarding this show, does anyone really think they're going to dump it? I'm guessing with the creation of these two sites, plus Aunt Jodi's sister, their viewership has went through the roof, if for no other reason than those similar to my own...the morbid fascination. I know the old saying, why can't we all just get along, and I know that (as in the real world) not everyone is going to be educated, able to articulate themselves, or just be nice in general, but I think we are really just doing more harm than good by inadvertently promoting this show and continuing to exploit the children. Wouldn't you agree?

48 comments:

Linda said...

Aunt Jodi's sisters blog ... oh my!

I've got three sisters with whom I am very close. I've also had my own personal struggles with in-laws (who are controlling like Kate) that I've shared with my sisters.

If that blog is truly written by Jodi's sister (and we really don't know if it is Julie) then I've got some thoughts:

It is curious to me that Jodi's sister has never given her name on the blog. Essentially, she has gone "public" about this personal matter but has chosen to only "expose" the conflict.

Maybe it isn't her intention, but in some ways she is saying that she doesn't have CONFIDENCE in Jodi to resolve this herself.

If one of my sisters took that private information and published it on the internet to supposedly "speak the truth" and help me I would be furious!

anya said...

Lauri,

I certainly respect your opinion, but I think your post is really geared more at the GWoP folks. They are the ones who have publically stated that they believe the show is harmful to the children and needs to be stopped. Of course, that doesn't stop them from talking about a myriad of other issues as your post indicates. I think their basic "mission" is at odds with having an active daily blog dedicated to recapping the show and discussing nuances of the show such as Kate's hair, the sizing of the children's clothes the whereabouts of the Gosselins at any given time. I believe you are right in that it DOES drive interest in the show (and ratings, of course).

I am only speak for myself, but I like to think we are bit more laid back here. The majority of people I have seen post actively seem to have a 'live and let' attitude about the show. We don't love the Gosselins. We may even have some misgivings about certain aspects of the show production or their parenting, but at the end of the day, I think there is a recognition that no child is being abused and the Gosselins have the right to take care of their family the way they see fit.

Just my opinion. I do appreciate that you have taken the time to examine the issue from another side. I think that's healthy and something we should all strive to do.

anya said...

Amy Marie and Linda:

My thoughts EXACTLY regarding Aunt Jodi's sister's blog especially about the arrogance and selfishness involved in inserting herself where she a) isn't needed and b)can only make the situation worse.

I really have nothing nice to add, so I will just leave it at that.

Lauri said...

Anya,
I agree with you and my post was originally intended for the GWoP site, (as I indicated at the top). I sent it here because of the request about not being sure what to do about the nasty and downright rude comments (happening on both sites). I am all for freedom of speech, and if the discussions would be just that...discussions and recaps, then I wouldn't have said anything. My only point was I think we're all failing to realize that good or bad, TLC is probably loving this. Thanks for your feedback :-)

Linda said...

Lauri -

I tend to agree that if you believe that the show exists to generate income for the family by exploiting the kids then the blogs present a kind of conflict of interest because you have to watch the tv shows to participate in the blog.

I've got mixed feelings about this family and this show. On the one hand, I'm curious. I'm from a family of 8 children and an identical twin so watching this family is very interesting to me. Having that many kids under one roof means a certain amount of noise and chaos let alone so many kids the same age.

Do I think that Kate and Jon are parents of the year? No (from what I see on tv.) Do I think that they are abusive? No ( from what I see on tv.) Do I think that they are average parents with an average relationship? Yes (from what I see on tv).

I will restate my objection to the GwoP blog very clearly:

1) They publish posts and comments that engage in the very same verbal abuse that they criticize the Gosselin parents for displaying.

2) Their disclaimer is very suspect. "Staff" members post that they want to get "the truth" out to the public about the Gosselins and yet their disclaimer does not warranty the accuracy of the claims made on the blog or in the comments. Additionally, they take no responsibility for the consequences that may be created from the blog posts or comments. If their purpose or mission was so "noble" why not take full responsibility for what happens.

3) Permitting the publication of posts and comments that refer to the children in derogatory terms or predict future psychiatric problems or illegal professions is completely inappropriate. I think it is allowed because it increases blog traffic and in that sense it is exploitive too.

4) I disagree that a blog that calls their parents lazy, greedy, the b-word, etc. even closely resembles advocating for these kids or has some "higher purpose."

I've got more to say but I will post it later.

Betty said...

If only... So much of what is out here is one group against another. I was truly hoping to find a middle of the road spot.

But seeing a post here of four kinds of haters kind of derailed my belief that this was it.

Guinevere said...

Well, betty, being as I wrote that...I really intended for people who I think are "haters" - which I define as people who watch J&K+8 not for pleasure but so that they can criticize the Gosselins or complain about them. Some people seem to feel that they are being lumped in with "haters" if they have any issues with the Gosselins or the show, and speaking only for myself, I don't feel that way. Middle of the road is fine, I think. Criticizing the show, the family - I think that's fine, and I don't think that anyone else who posts here would take issue with that. I take issue with the over-the-top hostility, hyperbole, and most of all, the attempts to actually interfere in the Gosselins' lives.

I can see that it's bugging some people that we talk about GWoP so much over here. I would suggest submitting a blog entry to the moderator if you want to change the direction of discussion. Honestly, if they didn't act so very nutty over there, there would be a lot less to talk about.

JessieTYCG said...

We could always have a well-choreographed fight scene ala "West Side Story" "...When you're a GWOP, you're a GWOP all the way from your first little snark about the show Jon and Kate..."

Or we could settle it with a good old fashioned....DANCE OFF! I call this move, "The Grumpy Chicken - ode to Kate" and clap three times, clap three times, eye roll, eye roll, hair-tuck, love-tap, sit. Jazz Hands! LOL!

Anonymous said...

To Jessietycg:

Thanks for bringing some humor to the discussion. Your "Grumpy Chicken - ode to Kate" is hilarious (and I am speaking as someone who basically likes Kate, but you have her nailed!).

Anonymous said...

I also think Jodi's sisters blog is rediculous! I would be furious if my sister did something like that! I guess she wants her little 15 minutes of fame! How could those people at GWOP say they are there for the children? All they do is say awful things about their parents. I do not see where that is doing anything to help the kids! I do not think the kids need any help at all. They go on with their nonsense about child labor laws...I do not see any of the kids working. All I see are kids being able have experiences that they otherwise would not have. Jon and Kate would not have been able to afford to give those children the opportunities without the show. I love the show and will never stop watching it.

Anonymous said...

Guinevere,

There you go...calling names. Why would you call posters at GWoP nutty? To get a reaction, that is why.

I am glad you appove of the middle of the road posts, but honestly, people watch the show for a variety of reasons.

All this site appears to be is a place to moan and groan about the other site.

What is the point of that.

Why not just have your discussions without having to compare or contrast to what the other blog may or may not be talking about.

Who cares really?

So far, this site is just too over the top for me...and there already exsists enough of those. And you are quite a fire starter yourself.

All I know, is what I see...not what I read. And we all interpret that in different ways.

Me personally, reality tv is scummy...those who partipate in it, those who produce it, and yes, even to those who watch it. That's just my opinion.

Very few children go on to have normal lives after being child stars....I don't think the Gosselin kids have good odds on that either.

Thanks,

COFFEELOVER

Anonymous said...

lol Jessie!

After visiting gwop a few times I got more involved in the whole J+k saga than I ever intended.

I have watched the show for a while now and I find the relationship between them very interesting, so I continue to watch. Kate has shocked me with her big mouth more than once, but again, that's what makes them who they are and that's why I tune in.

I agree with most of the comments here that while I like them, I don't always agree with everything they do. Hell, I feel that way about most members of my family. Snarking about this or that is perfectly normal but geez, gwop takes it too far.

Gwop would be okay with me if they would: A) Stop trying to interfere with the Gosselin's lives. Stop the cps calls, stop harrassing the extended family, just stop being intrusive.
B)Stop using the kids as an excuse to snark. It's pretty hypocritical to accuse j+k of using them and do the same thing on your blog. I mean, lets be real about it. How often is it really about them? How is making fun of Jon's hairplugs or mady's issues helping these kids? If you wanna snark on them, feel free. God knows they give us enough opportunity, but don't use those kids as an exuse to do it.

MCB said...

gwop would be okay with me if they would.....

WOW, Anonymous! I love your entire post! I think I want to marry it! Please continue to post and don't be so shy! Make up a screen name, or something!

STANDING O!!!!!

Guinevere said...

Guinevere,

There you go...calling names. Why would you call posters at GWoP nutty? To get a reaction, that is why


Look, I'm not going to suggest that anyone is an alcoholic, unintelligent, white trash, or whatever. Those are just personal insults that don't even seem to be relevant to the discussion, as far as I'm concerned.

But calling some GWoP posters nutty? True, fair and relevant, IMO only, of course. Probably mild, actually, if we're talking about the worst of the GWoP posters.

It's not intended to get a reaction from GWoP posters, because I'm not posting for them. I'm saying what I think on the only blog of the two where I'm allowed to.

Do you honestly think that calling CPS on the Gosselins isn't nutty? (I think it is evil, myself.) Diagnosing Kate, Mady, etc. with various mental illnesses or learning disabilities based on what they've seen on an edited TV show isn't nutty? Meeting (in person!) with disgruntled relatives of Gosselin in-laws - does that seem normal to you? To me, it screams "overinvested" and, yes, "nutty". I'm not insulting to insult, but I am going to call a spade a spade, as long as the rules of this blog allow me to.

Anonymous said...

Thanks mcb...just my thoughts.


Coffeelover,

You find this site over the top? You're kidding, right?

Reality tv and those who watch it are scummy. I see it was worth your time to post a comment on one.

And how did you find this site? You couldn't have been looking for it because reality shows like j+k are beneath you, right? And of course you couldn't have gotten the link from that anti-gosselin site, that would mean you like to throw a little fuel on the fire yourself.

Your comment wrieks of gwop hypocrisy.


--Katie

anya said...

I think there is a difference between hurling personal insults at one or two posters, i.e. "lush", (as we have seen done on this site in the last day or two) and making a general comment that some of the regulars at the other site appear "nutty."

This is just shorthand so one doesn't have to repeat again and again their various attempts to insert themselves into the Gosselin story. When you review what they have done, does this really seem "normal" to you? And I know they don't represent everyone who is posting there, but they are the loudest and most frequent (from my occasional peeps over there).

Anonymous said...

Anya, who are 'they' that you speak of? Are you willing to specifically state who exactly you are accusing of doing this stuff and exactly what have they done? Can you do that? Tell me, who called CPS?

As far as your first statement, it seems that basically what you are saying is insults are fine as long as it is you and your cohorts who are hurling them.

Anonymous said...

When was CPS called?

Linda said...

anon 10:00 --

I've been saying the exact same things. I think that is what gets me about their blog.

There are thousands of blogs that obsess and snark about tv/reality tv shows. They do not try to portray themselves as existing for a higher purpose.

Also, what concerns me about their blog is that it might provide just the nudge that an unbalanced person needs to do something to harm this family.

They've already called CPS, the National Enquirer, and possibly the IRS. They've even had someone go and take a picture of the infamous "sign." What's next?

Tallulah said...

I have not found where anyone said they called CPS, on the GWoP blog. It used to be discussed on the old TWoP board, I remember, but can't find any discussion about it on GWoP.
I think the people over at GWoP just feel strongly about advocating for the children. I am more a middle-of-the roader, as I don't see "abuse" except the dang cameras being allowed in their faces all the time. Kate does harsh and rude things sometimes, but I don't call that "abuse".

anya said...

No, that's not what I am saying at all. I am saying characterizing/calling out what some of us believe to be "nutty" behavior on the part of a group is different from calling one individual poster "white trash" or a "lush". But, I really don't want to fight with you on that point because I am sure you will see it differently.

As for giving more specifics on the folks who are IMO over-invested and frankly, creepy, I went very briefly over to the other site just now to get some of my details down. In the past few weeks, 'Serena' has been blabbing all over the blog about the wherabouts of the Gosselins at any point in time(in NC, back in PA, going to HI, etc.) What is the purpose of this?

Two posters (Mit and an Anon, I think) respectively bragged about calling one of the papers in PA and the National Enquirer (again) to tell them more "facts" about the Gosselins that they think the public must know. 'Iloveeyore' tracked down the email address of the writer who wrote the piece at the Washington Post that they didn't like and posted it so all the followers could write angry emails to the person. She also provided the contact information for the paper's ombudsman.

Sister of the Year, Julie, posted personal information about a family Easter celebration she was invited to at the Gosselin's. (Classy move, sweetheart - way to defend your sister. Oh wait, you were just snarking on the kid's potties). Oh, and there were pictures taken of the Gosselins front lawn to try and prove that some sign existed asking others to respect their privacy (the irony was apparently lost on them).

The CPS stuff? I don't have time to research right now, but I think it might have been brought up over at TWoP. I know for a fact somebody brought up calling the IRS on the Gosselins on GWoP, but alas, work calls and I don't have the time to find that for you right now.

I'll gladly do more research later, but I have a question for you - do you consider this behavior normal?

GWOP FAN said...

Anya -

NC? Just enlightening fans and non-fans alike of what they are doing. People are interested in the comings and goings of the Gosselins as evidenced by their ratings. Back to PA? So what? They came home after vacation and a speaking engagement. Hawaii? Again, relevant to the comings and goings of the Gosselins. All of that is relevant to the subject of the blog. They are the subjects of the blog. Their filming schedule is relevant to the blog. Are you not interested in what the Gosselins are doing? Surely, you are; you watch the show. So what if information comes to them that is posted prior to you actually seeing it on the show? Was it ever suggested in those posts referencing their whereabouts that anyone confront them or do them harm? No. Absolutely not. If pointing those locations and facts out would have been done by a fan, other fans would be all over that information, excited to know what they are up to and giddy to have insight into their lives before it ever plays out on TV.

Mit and Anon bragged about making editorial contacts in regards to the articles posted about the Gosselins? Number one, those are comments on GWoP. Is the administrator of this blog responsible for every single thing any one does or says either online or in person on behalf of their views of the Gosselins? I haven’t seen this posted as you didn’t provide a link to back it up, but taking your word for it, what does it prove they did? Contacted newspapers that in the past have published articles about this very subject and volunteered information that the newspaper may be interested in and would be bound to verify before they published anything? Iloveeyore also wrote an email to someone who published an article they had written in regards to the Gosselins? Sent it to their publicly displayed email address garnered from the publication’s site? Do you have a link supporting your assertion that it was posted so ‘angry emails’ could be sent? I would be surprised to see “Send your angry emails here.” Or could that characterization just be your exaggerated spin on things? In any event, it’s called editorial feedback, not stalking. They provided the email to the newspapers ombudsman? Shocking, I tell ya, that someone would suggest emailing a person who has been charged with those duties and actually gets paid for handling exactly that type of correspondence.

Julie has written about personal experiences she has had where she found Jon and Kate to be less than impressive. I’m sure if all her stories of interaction with Jon and Kate had been positive, every fan would be in love with her and the information they could glean from this insider. However, since it wasn’t what fans wanted to hear, somehow that now makes her a bad person for just being truthful about things everyone, the viewing public who fawns over them, do not see. Truth apparently not only breeds hatred, it hurts too, huh? You’d enjoy people who know them or have run in to them in public and had a positive experience relaying that information for you to soak up, but when those accounts of negative interactions are posted, there is a problem with the content?

Pictures of the signs on the front lawn? Who exactly took those? As far as I could gather the link to that picture was sent anonymously to a number of outlets, not limited to GWoP. That link was posted on every message board I have seen where the Gosselins are discussed and no one knows where it originated for certain. IMO, more than likely it originated from someone in the neighborhood who is by most accounts disgruntled with this family and their actions towards and treatment of their neighbors or perhaps the radio station who chose to do a call in session inviting neighbors to call in and relate their experiences with the Gosselin family on air. Notice that picture didn’t crop up until after that local radio station did the piece on them. Wait. Let me guess – I guess you think Serena, et al, were behind that too? Man, this Serena person sure is powerful.

CPS was mentioned on TWoP? TWoP and GWoP are two entirely separate entities. I still see no proof anyone from GWoP ever contacted CPS or suggested or supported such a thing. Please by all means when you find time, dig up that link proving GWoP supports this. Until then, I just refuse to believe that rumor.

It is all entirely normal behavior by a group of people interested in this show, and none of it is evidence of any type of ‘stalking of the Gosselins’ people blatantly accuse GWoP of. It’s as normal as your routine letter to the editor in a local paper someone chooses to write to express opinions on something that is offered up for public consumption. Just because it falls on the critical side of the opinion does not make it any more or less valid, and it certainly doesn’t take it to the level of stalking. Those are very harsh and libelous accusations and I would be hesitant to accuse people of such acts without a lot of firm proof to back those statements up should the need arise.

Former GWoP Fan said...

If you ever read the "super seekret" invite-only message board attached to GWoP as I have, you would know that YES, members there did call Pennsylvania social services and child advocacy groups asking them to intervene on behalf of the Gosselin children and get the show taken off the air. They called the PA state house asking whether the college funds that had been established in the children's names when the sextuplets were born actually existed or not because Kate was claiming that they had nothing in them. They called Paul Peterson, former child star, now advocate for child actors, asking him to look into the show on behalf of the children. They called the IRS, confirming that the "freebies" that the Gosselins receive are being declared on their yearly taxes. They contacted the National Enquirer and fed them their version of the way things are on the show and how to get a hold of Aunt Jodi and her sister Julie. I actually COULD name names, if the "who me? Prove it" posters would like, but outing and embarrassing people who happen to disagree with me over a TV show is more their style, not mine.

Yes, I used to belong to that group. Hence the word "former" in my screen name. I left when I couldn't take the Crazy any longer.

As for "GWOP Fan's" assumption that we are all interested in the comings and goings of the family, and they are just providing a service. No. Not all of us are THAT interested. Some of us just enjoy the show and what you are describing is over the top and extremely intrusive and obsessive. Please don't make assumptions for everyone.

And I think the only people who have a valid reason to be throwing buzzwords like "libelous" around to scare people off, are the Gosselins themselves.

GWOP FAN said...

I don't need any proof of this mysterious board or chat room you talk about. Unless it is posted publicly online, I really don't care, so there's no prove it mentality here. I'm curious about the assertions people make of things I have access to, GWOP for instance, because I'm seeing accusations I know I havent witnessed on GWOP but may have missed, but that's as far as my interest goes. That would be like me expecting to be privy to a personal phone call between two friends that is thought to be confidential and exploiting it. Just seems like more useless unsubstaniated rumors to me. As far as I am concerned it doesnt exist and I am only interested in what I can see with my own eyes posted places like here and GWOP. These are public websites we all have access to everyone can fairly evaluate. I'm sorry but I'm not going to just take your word for it and go off speculating on something no one seems to have a clue about.

As for "GWOP Fan's" assumption that we are all interested in the comings and goings of the family, and they are just providing a service. No. Not all of us are THAT interested. Some of us just enjoy the show and what you are describing is over the top and extremely intrusive and obsessive. Please don't make assumptions for everyone.

Then why don't you just watch the show and not bother yourself with what GWOP is posting? No one is forcing you to click to that site, are they?

Anonymous said...

Gwop fan,

I encourage you to check the comment board on the Washington Post article (as if you haven't already). Fiona, a mod at gwop I believe, personally attacked the journalist insinuating that she didn't do her homework. That little article was blown way out of proportion by the anit-Gosselin bunch because it wasn't dripping with hatred. Perhaps that is where one might get the idea that she would be recieving hate mail.


Quote: Those are very harsh and libelous accusations and I would be hesitant to accuse people of such acts without a lot of firm proof to back those statements up should the need arise.

If that's suppose to be a threat I hope you've got a lot of help 'cause there are a hell of a lot of blogs where the general consensus is that gwop is rapidly approaching stalker level.


It ain't just here, sweetheart.

And if the posts on gwop aren't libelous, I dunno what is.

GWOP FAN said...

Fiona is not a mod at GWOP. Do your homework. Your credibility is worth it.

My comment about libelous statements is just a suggestion for people to measure their words very carefully before posting anywhere they post. And hate to break it to you, snookums, but I bet I could find at least 5 instances where the term 'stalker' has been used in comments directly referring to GWOP administration on this very site within the last 3 days.

JessieTYCG said...

Oh Boy! Okay - Choreographed "West Side Story" fight scene and Dance-off idea is obviously not taking off. Tough crowd! Hmmmm, think, think, think...How 'bout:

1. Paintball Fight - we could have Em Tanner design our team shirts and then get them splattered with paint with reckless abandon as we all shout in unison, "How ya like these stains Kate?"

2. Sumo Wrestling - We could borrow the inflatable costumes from Bounce U where Jon and Kate took Leah on her special day. A representative from each side could be nominated by their peers (I'm looking at you two GWOP fan and Former GWOP fan - LOL!)and then let the games begin!

3. Bubble-gum blowing contest - biggest bubble wins. Aunt Jodi could be the judge.

4. Join hands and sing a round of Kumbayah - If nobody wants to join hands, we could borrow the Jon and Kate Plus 8 Parachute from the opening scene and hold on to that.

5. If all else fails, we could just "love tap" the heck out each other.

Peace.

anya said...

GWoP Fan:

You really have me mistaken for someone who is obsessed with the Gosselins and thinks they are perfect. Not me. Do I think they have faults? Sure. If I found out tomorrow that parts (or all) of the hundreds of rumors that were flying on the internet were true, I am pretty sure I'd pick myself up, go to my job and life would continue pretty much the same.

At the end of the day, I like the show, I like the Gosselin parents just fine and I think the kids are freakin adorable and fun to watch. As someone else said, "some of us just enjoy the show." It's as simple as that.

Anya

P.S. And you are right, I do blog about it because I generally enjoy talking about the show. If you read my posts, you would see I have had civil discussions with others who don't agree with my POV. But I DON'T need to know where they are at a given point in time (I'll see on the show at some point) and I DON'T believe the behavior I recounted above is healthy or helpful. Just my opinion.

Ephesians 2:10 said...

Jessie, thanks for the hysterical laugh.

Former GWoP fan, thanks for the info.

Blessings!

GWOP FAN said...

No Anya, I don't think you or anyone here is really obsessed with the Gosselins. I think the term I used was 'interested' in them in general.

However, as evidenced by the subject and tone of the majority of the comments of every single blog post here, not only yours, I think perhaps an obsession with the staff of GWOP wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.

Tyra said...

GWOP FAN, I feel I have something in common with a lot of people at GWoP. When I see/read something that bothers me, I want to comment on it. Sometimes it brings me out of lurkdom!

Opinions on tv shows are one thing. Activism is another.

Here are two GWoP postings I think are interesting. The first is mod Serena answering a posters queries:

Serena said...

Can someone please tell my why it is now repeated over and over as fact that the Gosselins have a personal chef?

Because they DO.

we're all supposed to believe this stuff with absolutely no evidence?

Believe or not, as you wish.

Somebody help me out here. (with the personal chef question, I won't be convinced about Jodi's "sister")

We're not here to "convince" anyone. We have met Jodi's sister, we believe what she has told us, we talk about it here. It's not our mission to make anyone else share our beliefs.
July 14, 2008 5:29 PM’

Anonymous said:

Last Friday, 7/18, I called the 1-800 tip line number of the National Enquirer. I actually spoke with Sarah Cordes, the reporter who did the story. I shared with her what information I could. -Snip-

July 24, 2008 5:48 PM’

This is my biggest problem with the GWoP site. ‘Facts’ are offered without verification. These ‘facts’ prompt people who trust the info offered as ‘fact’ to take actions which could have a large effect on another human being’s life, on the life of a family. They aren’t a court, or officers of the court, who are held to a certain standard of proof and rules of conduct, yet they are willing to influence people to take action. It’s entirely possible that some (like me) will be moved criticize them for it. It’s not bashing, it’s not sniping:, it’s speaking my opinion about what I see, which is what many JK8 viewers do every day, all day long.

The GWoP administrators may have the straight-on facts, but I just don’t know, because they will not offer hard and fast ‘proof’, just ‘trust us’ statements. They have created a kind of ‘voice of authority’ for themselves within the community of people who frequent the site, and their pronouncements are taken seriously by a large enough group of people to include people who will actually take action based on what they say. I find that highly irresponsible and worthy of criticism.

Guinevere said...

NC? Just enlightening fans and non-fans alike of what they are doing. People are interested in the comings and goings of the Gosselins as evidenced by their ratings. Back to PA? So what? They came home after vacation and a speaking engagement. Hawaii? Again, relevant to the comings and goings of the Gosselins. All of that is relevant to the subject of the blog. They are the subjects of the blog. Their filming schedule is relevant to the blog. Are you not interested in what the Gosselins are doing? Surely, you are; you watch the show. So what if information comes to them that is posted prior to you actually seeing it on the show? Was it ever suggested in those posts referencing their whereabouts that anyone confront them or do them harm? No. Absolutely not. If pointing those locations and facts out would have been done by a fan, other fans would be all over that information, excited to know what they are up to and giddy to have insight into their lives before it ever plays out on TV.

It is only the haters that are obsessed with tracking the movements of the Gosselins. It is extremely inappropriate, mentally unhealthy, and yes, stalker-like behavior. If I were the Gosselins, I would be concerned.

I have seen no evidence that anyone who posts here in support of the Gosselins is remotely approaching "giddiness" levels of fandomhood. Speaking for myself, it is enough for me to watch the show, period. Again, it's the haters who think they own J&K just because they have chosen to share their lives on TV. The rest of us understand the concept of boundaries. I don't have any particular desire to meet J&K IRL. The Gosselins do not owe me anything and I don't care where they are at this moment - I'll be watching them Monday night, and that's fine.

When you say "Was it ever suggested in those posts referencing their whereabouts that anyone confront them or do them harm? No. Absolutely not", you must be aware of how disingenuous you appear. So much of what GWoPpers do in relation to the Gosselins - driving by their house and taking pictures, contacting various individuals in an attempt to hurt the Gosselins, tracking their movements - is very omninous and disturbing behavior. If you can't see that, then I don't know what to say to you.

Mit and Anon bragged about making editorial contacts in regards to the articles posted about the Gosselins? Number one, those are comments on GWoP. Is the administrator of this blog responsible for every single thing any one does or says either online or in person on behalf of their views of the Gosselins?

Um, they do moderate the comments. Publishing a comment that discusses having taken action to hurt the Gosselins or suggesting that others do the same amounts to a tacit endorsement of the behavior, IMO.

They provided the email to the newspapers ombudsman? Shocking, I tell ya, that someone would suggest emailing a person who has been charged with those duties and actually gets paid for handling exactly that type of correspondence.

I don't find it "shocking", just more evidence that the GWoPpers are out of touch with reality (which at this point, is not shocking at all, sadly). This is the ombudsman of the WASHINGTON POST, not the Podunk Times. I can just imagine the angry letters he is fielding about a puff piece about a cable television show. No doubt "cupcakegate" will be referenced, and the evils of brushing hair in the kitchen dissected. I don't know if I envy or pity the man.

Julie has written about personal experiences she has had where she found Jon and Kate to be less than impressive. I’m sure if all her stories of interaction with Jon and Kate had been positive, every fan would be in love with her and the information they could glean from this insider.

Sigh. Again, no. I don't care about information from "insiders" (is she really an insider? She's a relative of an in-law; I'd call her a hanger-on, more like). I just want to watch the show, really. This is what it's like when you just like a show, and aren't obsessed by it.

In any case, I would think her attempts to horn in on the Gosselin story tacky and rather pathetic, no matter what she had to say.

However, since it wasn’t what fans wanted to hear, somehow that now makes her a bad person for just being truthful about things everyone, the viewing public who fawns over them, do not see. Truth apparently not only breeds hatred, it hurts too, huh?

Why do you believe it's the truth? It may be, it may not be. Maybe some of it is true and some of it isn't. The GWoPpers sure are a credulous bunch, though. Maybe I should try offering you all some excellent business opportunities; I happen to have some lovely property in Florida that you could have for a steal!

Seriously, the same goes for GWoPpers, though (or rather the opposite): if Julie were saying nice things about Kate Gosselin, she'd be the Antichrist in your eyes. And one of you would probably be tracking her movements and tapping her phone.

You’d enjoy people who know them or have run in to them in public and had a positive experience relaying that information for you to soak up,

Aargh! Again, again, again, no. I really try not to speak for anyone but myself when I write here, but I feel confident in saying that no one here CARES THAT DAMN MUCH ABOUT THE GOSSELINS!!!!!

Is that emphatic enough for you? Is it just that you all are so obsessed that you don't understand what it's like NOT to be obsessed with the Gosselins?

Pictures of the signs on the front lawn? Who exactly took those? As far as I could gather the link to that picture was sent anonymously to a number of outlets, not limited to GWoP. That link was posted on every message board I have seen where the Gosselins are discussed and no one knows where it originated for certain. IMO, more than likely it originated from someone in the neighborhood who is by most accounts disgruntled with this family and their actions towards and treatment of their neighbors or perhaps the radio station who chose to do a call in session inviting neighbors to call in and relate their experiences with the Gosselin family on air. Notice that picture didn’t crop up until after that local radio station did the piece on them. Wait. Let me guess – I guess you think Serena, et al, were behind that too? Man, this Serena person sure is powerful.

"Serena" herself says, in the Q&A section of GWoP:

QUESTION: Just wondering how you obtain information like when there is a laundry service vehicle there etc?

ANSWER: From people involved with the Gosselins in one capacity or another, or people living nearby them.

So, GWoP has spies in the neighborhood. Wow, that's not creepy or inappropriate AT ALL!

CPS was mentioned on TWoP? TWoP and GWoP are two entirely separate entities. I still see no proof anyone from GWoP ever contacted CPS or suggested or supported such a thing. Please by all means when you find time, dig up that link proving GWoP supports this. Until then, I just refuse to believe that rumor.

It says right on the main page at GWoP that the administrators came from TWoP posters. They named their blog after TWoP, for crying out loud! So "two entirely separate entities" just strikes me as another example of disingenousness or willful blindness.

I already know, by "Serena's" own words, that she tracks the movements of the Gosselins at all times. It is not a stretch to wonder if she or one of her compatriots has called CPS. I would bet everything that I have that the person or people who called CPS post at GWoP. They would be unable to stay away, because they are obsessed with the Gosselins.

In any case, you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas. People are judged by the company they keep, and by the stuff that GWoPpers openly admit to, IMO they have no room to go pearl-clutching when they are accused of being CPS callers.

It is all entirely normal behavior by a group of people interested in this show, and none of it is evidence of any type of ‘stalking of the Gosselins’ people blatantly accuse GWoP of. It’s as normal as your routine letter to the editor in a local paper someone chooses to write to express opinions on something that is offered up for public consumption. Just because it falls on the critical side of the opinion does not make it any more or less valid, and it certainly doesn’t take it to the level of stalking.

It's not normal, it is stalking, and it's nothing like writing a letter to an editor. The most hardcore of the GWoPpers are definitely stalkers by most of the criteria used for the term. For one thing, they evince a heavy preoccupation with the fantasy that the Gosselins are aware of them and that they have some sort of mutual reciprocal relationship with J&K. That's Stalker 101 behavior.

Those are very harsh and libelous accusations and I would be hesitant to accuse people of such acts without a lot of firm proof to back those statements up should the need arise.

Ooh, you're throwing legal words at me! I'm scared! I would be hesitant to try to ruin the lives of total strangers I only know from a TV show, but that's not because I'm afraid of being sued; it's because I have morals.

Tallulah said...

"I would be hesitant to try to ruin the lives of total strangers I only know from a TV show"

I never got the idea that anyone was trying to "ruin anyone's life" over at GWoP. The Gosselin parents are doing a good job of "ruining" their own kids' lives, judging from what I see on the show.

Guinevere said...

I consider calling CPS on the Gosselins to be a ruinous and evil act that would harm J&K and the children both (if CPS took the calls seriously and investigated). I think trying to affect their livelihood by pressuring churches not to book J&K is trying to ruin their lives. I think harrassing them, driving by their house and taking pictures, and communicating with a disgruntled relative of an in-law is harmful to the Gosselins, whether that's the intent or not.

I've said before: say whatever you want about them - I might disagree or disapprove (e.g. I don't think Kate can fairly be compared to Diane Downs or OJ Simpson, both of whom are murderers), but I don't really care *that* much. But trying to interfere with their lives outside of the show? Wrong, immoral, creepy, stalkerish and hateful.

Betty said...

I'm almost without words. The mudslinging is rasing my bloodpressure. Perhaps I'll check back in a week or two to see if the television show has any appeal for discussion.

So much for fair and unbalanced discussion of the show. Could we have that instead of battling over a blog? Wouldn't it be easier to just ignore it?

Anonymous said...

I see that "Julie" is once again up to her nonsense on GWOP. I have politely asked on that site if they would update Jodis feelings/awareness of what Julie is doing. I find it troubling that none of them will address Jodis reaction/approval of Julies actions. The silence is deafening when it comes to getting answers to something thats quite important. How does Jodi reconcile her great love of the Gosselin kids and her sister bashing their family and more importantly how does Jodi reconcile her great love of the Gosselin kids with her sister teaming up with people who stalk and harass them?

Anonymous said...

Wow-- I've been posting over here albeit anon for a couple of weeks.... this constant tit-for-tat attitude between this blog and GWoP is just creepy. It is almost like this blog is a little jealous they aren't on the inside and in the know (not that GWoP is really). This blog is more like a playground war than fair and balanced discussion. Even the name comes from GWoP. The discssion has just gone down hill. I'm with the other poster above. See yas when we can get back to real discussion and not hair pulling.

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:01 pm

But here you are - trying to stir up the very thing you say you deplore. Pretty silly on your part, isn't it.

Anonymous said...

To: Anon 7:47 p.m.

My feeling exactly. Julie's actions are sickening. I really would rather have Kate for a sister-in-law than Julie (poor Kevin). This woman is malevolent.

Anonymous said...

I just don't get it. Kate is really just trying to keep her family together and off wefare. If she does it through TV, then bully for her. There are plenty of moments on the show where they cuddle the kids and play with them. I just can't believe the kids are in any harm.

Etown mom said...

Oh, honey, I wish I could introduce you to Kate.

Anonymous said...

First, I work for social services and so does my husband. He actually works in Child Protection. Based on what has been shown on the show, there is zero cause to even do an investigation. When I told him about all the stuff being said and people talking about calling CPS on them, he laughed. Seriously, he laughed. Then he asked me, why? I said exactly.

Second, I truly feel that if Jodi wants her sister, Julie, to "set the record straight" then Jodi herself should have the guts to either:
a) publicly acknowledge that Julie is her sister and that she is A-ok w/ everything Julie says and what's on her blog.
b) start her own dang blog and tell us what she thinks herself. Why is she having someone else do the dirty work? It's like she knows the public is in favor of her and as long as she doesn't say anything then whatever Julie does doesn't reflect on her.

I have posted on this board w/ my regular blog name, but I am choosing to remain Anon because I've revealed by job. Some people just don't like you when they find out you work for social services.

Anonymous said...

Gwop fan,

Hi buttercup (I just love our little terms of endearment), I'm sorry about the confusion with Fiona, I wouldn't want anyone to think she was a mod over here either. I'm pretty sure you know who she is and the fact that I mistook her for a mod was your only beef with my previous post, I'll assume that you know who she is and that I made my point.

And I never said there weren't comments here comparing gwop mods, or the posters for that matter, to stalkers. We know.

I will say that it is only opinion, nothing more. I don't know the mods at gwop. I dunno where they live, who does their laundry, or where they intend to go for summer vacation. I don't care. I base my opinions on what they say on that blog.

I can see that you want to defend that blog and rightfully so. Not that I agree with anything that goes on over there, but you do so you should defend it. So why is it that when Jon allegedly commented on that site, was it such a big deal? It's being retained? For what, to prove what a bad father he is because he sent a "vulgar" comment to a blog that regularly snarks about his family? Or when they posted that (stupid, I'll give ya that) letter on their website? You gwoppers sure went to town on that one.

You came here to defend a blog. What if it was you FAMILY?

And yeah, maybe they did put themselves out there for the world to snark on but gwop did they same thing by starting that blog in the first place.


--Katie

anya said...

Anon 9:20 pm said: Jodi should "start her own dang blog and tell us what she thinks herself. Why is she having someone else do the dirty work? It's like she knows the public is in favor of her and as long as she doesn't say anything then whatever Julie does doesn't reflect on her."

***********************************
I really don't know what to think about the whole Aunt Jodi's sister's blog thing. Wait, I KNOW one thing - Julie is a malicious busybody.

Beyond that, because I have seen it done over and over again in relation to the Gosselin's, I am not going to jump to conclusions and assume that Jodi condones the blog when I don't know for certain that is the case. It may be that Julie is just determined to insert herself into the drama and won't be deterred. How many of us can think of a relative or friend we have that always has to be "in the mix" even when it has nothing to do with them? That said, I wouldn't fall out of my chair if I found tomorrow that she somehow had a part in her sister's blog.

I'm not sure starting her own public blog would be the best course of action. She appears to be caught in the middle and maybe staying silent isn't the worse thing to do.

As far as I know, there hasn't been any confirmation that Jodi & Kevin are completely out of the Gosselin's life - correct? I think they just won't be filming at their house anymore this season.

I guess we will see how it plays out.

Anonymous said...

Well "Julie" claims that jodi wanted her to tell everyone that Kate is a terrible mom who never interacts with her kids so I would guess that Kate probably doesnt interact with Jodi anymore either. Funny how jodi was okay with how Kate treated the kids until she didnt earn money from TLC or Figure 8.

-----------
As far as I know, there hasn't been any confirmation that Jodi & Kevin are completely out of the Gosselin's life - correct? I think they just won't be filming at their house anymore this season.

anya said...

Well "Julie" claims that jodi wanted her to tell everyone that Kate is a terrible mom who never interacts with her kids so I would guess that Kate probably doesnt interact with Jodi anymore either.
**********************************
Interesting. I remember seeing one post on the other site where Julie did claim that Jodi (and Kevin) approved of the blog. I don't know. I just don't trust much of what "Julie" says. She seems to have a big ax to grind and she has shown horrible judgement IMO in publishing the blog in the first place and posting so frequently on the other site. She has kind of proved my point, in that she started out as the 'Defender of Jodi' because she had to share "THE TRUTH", (i.e. she felt Jodi has been horribly mistreated by Kate). She's moved on to other topics, however, and the other day she posted about an Easter meal at the Gosselins that she was invited to. (Yes, folks, she was a GUEST). Then she went on to complain about potties in the garage or SOMETHING. I lost interest, because I was struck dumb by the fact that she thought this was appropriate to share.

I do hope to see Jodi and Kevin in future episodes. It's an interesting dynamic - Jodi & Kevin (the other J&K) are interesting too. Young, good-looking couple with multiple children, but their personalities (especially Kate and Jodi) appear quite different from Kate and Jon.

Amy said...

so, i just left a fairly long post and lost it in "cyberspace", so if it's repeated, i'm sorry!

i do believe that we are assisting the G's inadvertently, i however, don't mind!

they have 8 children to raise for 18 years. if this is how they choose to help support their family, so-be-it. this is just reality TV...it is not a "3-2-1 and we're live" type of show. i don't feel as though these children will be negatively affected by this.

this is a family giving us a glimpse of their unique and matchless life!

as far as "jodi's sister's" blog goes...that garbage makes me sick! what a great aunt to let this happen...

i would just like ppl to see the "brighter side" of this family or give them the benefit of the doubt when rumors are churning about...

just my thoughts :)

Amy said...

anya-

thank you for your info...UNREAL what lengths the GWOPers will go to!!!

i find it funny that some ppl that claim they don't think this blog is worthy of existence or they shouldn't "waste" their time here...come back repeatedly to respond to others.

and...how did they find this blog anyhow?

IMO, if you're going to come on here and "bash the blog"...say your peace and keep your word :)