Sunday, August 31, 2008

How Do They Move Forward?


This article was graciously written by Anya in response to a reader's request for discussion on this topic.


The Gosselin blog world has been swirling over the last several weeks with rumors of estrangement between Jon and Kate and "Aunt Jodi." (Surprisingly Kate's brother, Kevin - Jodi's husband - is rarely mentioned in the various accounts.)

Despite rabid speculation and conjecture by a handful of dedicated Kate-haters, as well as some insider information imprudently provided by Jodi's bitter sister Julie, we really know very little for certain. This hasn't really changed despite the recent release of a very short video made by a clearly emotional Jodi certifying the accusations made on her sister's blog as "the truth."

Putting all the pieces of information together, there does appear to be some sort of rift between the couples. Many viewers are upset because what we have seen of Jodi and Kevin has been very positive. The two couples - young, good looking and each with LOTS of kids complemented each other nicely. It was fun seeing the "guys" - Jon and Kevin - work on home projects together and seeing the Gosselin kids with their younger cousins (according to Kate, Mady has a special bond with Jodi and Kevin's youngest son).

Almost all of us have been involved in a family disagreement or estrangement at one time or another. Of course, we were lucky enough not to have our dirty laundry aired for all the internet to see, but that doesn't change the fundamental issues that are facing the two couples now. Obviously, for there to be healing, somebody has to make the first move. Most would agree it would be in the children's best interest for somebody to step up to the plate. Doing so could provide a valuable lesson to the children that forgiveness is always possible and families can overcome slights and hurt feelings.

Or perhaps you have a different opinion? Have you faced a similar situation? Did you choose to walk away for good or did you take the steps needed towards reconciliation? Or maybe you have been lucky enough to escape the family drama many of us have experienced. We would still like to hear your advice for the couples.

Of course, all views are welcomed with the caveat that pointing fingers at "Person J" or "Person K" as being responsible for everything isn't really constructive advice. Whatever happened happened. How do they move forward?

66 comments:

momofone said...

Anya - thank you. Very nicely written.

Family drama, estrangement, arguments and hurt feelings are prevalent in many families. Something as simple as a misunderstanding can turn into a mountain of mess. Public airing of dirty laundry has only, in my opinion, fueled the fire and made things more difficult than just public rumor and blog rants.

I can only hope and pray for the kids' sake that the two families make ammends and move forward. I feel this could have, and probably should have been done sooner than now. But, let's hope for the best.

Anonymous said...

We had a serious rift in my family caused by my aunt. She said some incredibly hurtful things and became very mean and malicious in her words and actions. Ultimately, we were able to heal. It took a lot of time. It also took a conscious decision to forgive. To this day, my aunt doesn't understand what she did wrong. It was more important to our family that my dad and his brothers have a relationship.

GLO said...

Recently, I was involved in a conflict with a close relative. It caused a big riff that lasted for several weeks. In the end, I decided the relationship was more important to me than my pride, and I chose to behave in adult fashion and apologized for my handling of the situation. I still believe I was in the right, but I aknowledged that I should have handled better. The relative apologized also, and we have mended our relationship.

If the relationship between J&K and K&J is important enough (or the relationship between their children!), then someone needs to be the bigger person and make the first move by apologizing. Sometimes, even if you are in the right, you just have to suck it up in order to move beyond the situation and keep the relationship.

MCB said...

With the information and speculation we have been given, if I were the Gosselins, I wouldn't let Jodi near the kids. As long as Jodi's sister is associating with and feeding private information to haters and harassers on the Internet, the subject would be closed. If Jodi were able to silence her sister and get her to give up the hero worship she's currently enjoying, then they could negotiate. No way in hell should Jon and Kate pretend that what Julie is doing (in her sister's name) is not potentially harmful to the safety and security of those kids.

Anonymous said...

What has always bothered me about this situation is how very, very little we know about the problem, and the actual family members. I have some grandparents from a fundamentalist religious background. While it isn't true that all fundamentalists are like them, my grandparents were extremely abusive, controlling, manipulative people. They stole money from their own son, they held the relationship with the grandchildren over their own children's heads as a means of leverage...it was a very ugly situation. For years, my father wanted to still respect his parents. He wanted us to have a relationship with our grandparents. The bottom line was, he was unwilling to participate in illegal activities for his parents. There was deep favoritism within the family that affected the relationship between the children and their parents, as well as the grandparents and certain grandchildren. My father tried to make things right. We certainly were not a daily, or even weekly part of my grandparents lives. It became clear that we were dealing with some very hurtful, manipulative people that would never change. In the end, we chose to no longer be a part of that family. It hurts me deeply, after all these years, because I desire a relationship with them. It just isn't, in this case, healthy for me to attempt a relationship with them any longer.

I wonder at times if this isn't a similar situation with Kate and her parents. We have no way of knowing. I certainly don't want to speak ill of her family, as I know NOTHING about them. However, the lack of consistent time with this side of the family, and Kate's strong desire to make sure that her children have opportunities and memories with their family that she never had makes me wonder what is really going on. It is possible that there are reasons besides Kate being a controlling you-know what (that's supposed to be sarcastic in tone, by the way) for the rift within the family.

If only we could all have a healthy family dynamic. As I grow older, I am more keenly aware that few, if any, families are free of dysfunction.

Daisy said...

I believe that the relationhip between Kate and Jodi can be restored. It will take a desire for both of them to fix it. It will take repentance and forgiveness. I pray for the children's sake of both families that this happens.

Guinevere said...

We had a serious rift in my family caused by my aunt. She said some incredibly hurtful things and became very mean and malicious in her words and actions. Ultimately, we were able to heal. It took a lot of time. It also took a conscious decision to forgive. To this day, my aunt doesn't understand what she did wrong. It was more important to our family that my dad and his brothers have a relationship.

This resonates with me. I think there has to be a conscious decision on at least one party's part to forgive, or apologize, or both. Basically, at least one of them is going to have to swallow some pride. It may be that Jodi is going to have to accept that Kate is the way she is (and not gossip about it to Bitter Julie, who then blabs about it all over the internet). It may be that Kate will have to accept that Jodi is passive-aggressive and can be phony and back-biting. If the two were close (and I'm not really sure how close they were on a personal level before - I mean, I know they interacted a lot, but I don't know if they considered each other more friends or just sisters-in-law), they may not be able to be as close in the future.

But both women are adults and should be able to have a civil and cordial relationship with each other, for the sake of Kate's relationship with Kevin and for the children of both families.

Guinevere said...

With the information and speculation we have been given, if I were the Gosselins, I wouldn't let Jodi near the kids. As long as Jodi's sister is associating with and feeding private information to haters and harassers on the Internet, the subject would be closed. If Jodi were able to silence her sister and get her to give up the hero worship she's currently enjoying, then they could negotiate. No way in hell should Jon and Kate pretend that what Julie is doing (in her sister's name) is not potentially harmful to the safety and security of those kids.

You make a good point. I was seeing things in terms of Jodi and Kate being able to move forward, but unfortunately Julie is a roadblock to that. I suppose if Jodi promised not to talk about the Gosselins to Julie, then J&K could decide whether they want to give her a second chance.

It just reminds me what a great deal of damage Bitter Julie did in the name of "standing up for her sister."

dotsicle said...

There was a split in my family that was never resolved. A sister and a brother were involved in a dispute about who would have control over my widowed mom's money. A lot of accusations were thrown around by each party, behind each other's back. Sis walked away and had no further contact with either Bro or Mom! 20 years later, Bro was hospitalized with a terminal illness and Sis had moved to my state. I was talking to Bro on the phone when Sis came over. I asked if she'd speak to him and she refused. The next time I spoke to him, his condition was such that he did not even remember Sis! He soon died, and Sis has never regretted her behavior.
Life is too short. I hope that Kate and her brother will be able to continue some kind of relationship.

Fanny said...

I think what gets me the most about Jodi's video is that it was really only meant to convince the folks on the internet that what Julie was saying was true. Anyone who's close to the family would have already known. Why so much concern for what strangers think?

Any wrongdoing on Kate's part has for me, been overshadowed by Julies need to revered for doing some brave and noble thing. I can understand need to put the information out there to defend her sister, but I think now it's more about Julie's love of hero worship than it is about defending Jody.

Retaliating against your family (or your sister's family, as it were), on an internet blog does not, imo, constitute bravery or nobility.

aprili said...

I guess I am empathetic to Jodi. I do not know them personally of course or what all went down behind the scenes but from what we all did see...... Jodi was sweet and kind and helpful. J&K moved near to benefit from her involvement and love for the children. If I were her and got blasted and belittled on national television for giving my nephew gum and then I had no voice to defend myself because it is not my show and I don't get a couch interview. Gee, I think I would be hurt. I don't defend the way Julie handled it at all but I can't imagine the tears Jodi has cried being cut out of those kids lives. You could see the love between them. :( Makes me so sad for all of them.....

Anonymous said...

It's just a sad situation all around. I agree with above poster who says that Jodi didn't really have a forum to air her situation and that could be frustrating. Also, we don't know if the gum thing was the tip of the iceberg of something else. Who knows?

In the end the adults go on. It's the kids that suffer the consequences.

aprili said...

AMEN!! to the above...

Marmie said...

I have always said both sides are hurting IM sure and I AM glad my family disputes are not aired for the public.

MCB said...

If Jodi is that brokenhearted over being separated from her nieces and nephews, the proper way to show that is NOT to make videos defending Julie posting on a Gosselin Hate site, but to sit her sister down and say, "Look, I appreciate you sticking up for me, but you have GOT to stop speaking to those people on the Internet or I'll never get to see the kids again." If Julie loves her sister more than her new found "fame," she'd stop. Then Kevin or Jodi can approach the Gosselins with the promise that Julie will no longer discuss the kids with haters and harassers (and by extension, whatever lurking crazies, pedophiles and trolls read their blog).

Bottom line is that Kate and Jon are the parents. They have the right to say who sees the kids and who doesn't and if a relative is involved in something that promotes hatred, vitriol and harassment directed toward them, they have the right to cut them off. The ball is totally in Jodi and Kevin's court. They can chose to do nothing, which means they don't see the kids, or they can choose to sit Julie down and tell her that seeing the kids is more important that her getting her ego stroked by a bunch of strangers on the Internet. Seems that if Jodi and Julie are the "paragons of virtue" that GWoP thinks they are, the decision would be an easy one.

axiom said...

wow, this is tough one. i stated before that im glad my personal family issues arent aired publicly. I havent had a serious family blow-out like this either.

from what we have seen, Jodi's sister really blew things out of the water with her blog and constant responses on the other site. A previous poster made a good point that J&K are the ones that started with the criticism of Jodi and she had no forum. If you watched that episode, IMO, Kate blew it out porportion. All she had to do was stick the bear in a baggie, in the freezer for a few hours and the tiny piece of gum would have fallen off. She chose to flip out on national tv, she chose to slam jodi on national tv, she chose to call her and reprimand in a very passive aggresive manner and worse, she chose to torment her son by telling him she was going to throw the bear out as he stood there crying and freaking out. we examine how jodi has ousted them, but what about how kate initiated the whole fiasco?

Neither party acted well. they both made mistakes. and Julie shouldnt have become involved - it made things monumentally worse because its really none of her business and her actions are probably the obstacle for any healing and moving further.

will they heal? i am not so positive about that. while we dont know the details, we do know that kate's family was involved with the twins. she trusted her parents to care for the twins while she was carrying the tups. when the same thing keeps happening to one person, is it really everyone else's fault? or does that person have to realize, "where is my family, maybe i need to work on the way i express myself?"

the children are truly the ones suffering from this - their extended families have been alienated. whether its because of a fallout or because they dont want to be part of the show and filmed. at what point is family placed before profit and fame?

these are tough questions, and ultimately, J&K have made their decision as the show continues. its their life. they will have to live with thier decisions.

my advice - can the weekly show and work on your family. at the end of the day the film crew and jenny are not your family (as they have stated many times) and when the show is over, they will be out. Family, when treated with respect and consideration, will be there after the show is over. they should make the first step. have a yearly update of the kids, like other families of multiples do. work on strengthening your extended family. that is such a valuable lesson for the children, the best examples always start at home.

Anya, that was a very well-written post.

Anonymous said...

I think there is more to the story. I think Jodi and Kevin have voiced their concerns and they were ignored. Have you considered that there could exsist a more serious situation than we are aware???

While Jodi's video didn't do much for me, and I do think it made her look silly, I personally think there is so much more then we are aware.

Maybe this is here way of giving a warning.

And for those of you who like to call one site a hater site, and this site a lover site, that is just silly.

Get over yourselves.

LInda said...

I've been scratching my head about how they can move forward. I think that both of the families have responsibility in the mess.

And maybe the only way to move forward is to go forward separately.

I tend to agree with MCBs assessment the most though.

nomoredrama said...

Anon 9:47:
I, too, think there is more to this going on than we know. But I think there is more on BOTH sides...not just Kate's.

Somehow I doubt that Jodi and Kevin tried to say something. I could buy that about Beth but not Jodi. Jodi was busy enjoying free things too. If Jodi was so disturbed by something going on, why would she turn her attention to a gossip blog and not the authorities?

aprili said...

I agree with axiom. There is a pattern in K's relationships that needs to be addressed and corrected by her regardless of who is right and wrong. It goes much further than her and Jodi and will continue to if she doesn't get a handle on it.

Nina Bell said...

"my advice - can the weekly show and work on your family. at the end of the day the film crew and jenny are not your family (as they have stated many times) and when the show is over, they will be out. Family, when treated with respect and consideration, will be there after the show is over. they should make the first step. have a yearly update of the kids, like other families of multiples do. work on strengthening your extended family. that is such a valuable lesson for the children, the best examples always start at home"

This is my opinion, not the opinion of " the blog" or other people that come here frequently. I can't disagree with anything in the above statement. Very good, solid advice and they would probably benefit from taking this advice. However, if they choose not to do this, I will respect that. Many of us blogging about this family have made poor choices in our life that have somehow affected our children and other family members. Let's just remember that. We can not control what others do only ourselves. We can blog and talk about it all we want but in the end, it is their decision. We need to respect that.

aprili said...

Totally agree with the above!!

anya said...

Linda said...
I've been scratching my head about how they can move forward. I think that both of the families have responsibility in the mess.

And maybe the only way to move forward is to go forward separately.



Linda, I completely agree with the above. I think going forward separately is probably what is going to happen in the short term anyway.

I do believe time can heal wounds and perhaps a gradual reintroduction can occur. If the move to North Carolina is really happening, the distance may help in the long run.

Of course, reconciliation will only be possible, if and when, Jodi gets her big-blabber mouth sister under control!

Anonymous said...

What can be done to heal the situation? For everyone to put the needs of kids in front of their own. My cousin and I are in a similar situation - actually, the whole family is involved because when she is mad at a person, she uses her kids as pawns and takes them out of her father's, mother's, aunts, cousins, life. She (my cousin) is truly a selfish person, and it is always about her. If people are willing to do what she says, then they are allowed to see the kids. It's all about her controling the situation, and I hate to say it, but that trait reminds me very much of Kate.

While I agree that we don't know all of the specfics of the situation - is there a doubt in anyone's mind that the cousins love and enjoyed one another?

Is there any doubt in people's mind that their aunt and uncle sacrificed a lot to help family out?? (My (other) cousin has 2 sets of twins - naturally!!! I can vouch for how draining they can be.) Personally, as Kate has said, it is important for Jodi to be in the kids life because she loves the kids for who they are not what they are. I think someone who is that important to the kids deserve to be a part of their lives.

Anonymous said...

Bottom line is that Kate and Jon are the parents. They have the right to say who sees the kids and who doesn't and if a relative is involved in something that promotes hatred, vitriol and harassment directed toward them, they have the right to cut them off. The ball is totally in Jodi and Kevin's court. They can chose to do nothing, which means they don't see the kids, or they can choose to sit Julie down and tell her that seeing the kids
----------------------------
If you look at Kate's history, she has no problem cutting (and keeping) her family out of the kids life. My guess is that Kate made it clear they will never have contact with the kids again, and they are using her sister's blog as a last ditch effort to make it clear that Jodi does care about the kids and not let J&K spin the story however they want.

How do I know? Because I am in a similar situatin with my cousin who acts just like Kate.

nomoredrama said...

Personally, as Kate has said, it is important for Jodi to be in the kids life because she loves the kids for who they are not what they are.
Personally, I think both Jodi and Julie should have thought about that when they started posting on blogs about the family. If you go to Julie's blog and read where the angry letter that she assumes is from Jon is found, you will see that it says at that time (when she was posting on TWoP), Jodi was still involved with the kids and wanted to stay that way. Do you think that if the parents got wind of what she was doing, they didn't have a right to cut her out of their life for the moment? Do you not think that what Jodi did was very underhanded? Do you think that Jon and Kate are dumb enough to say "Well, it's Julie talking trash not Jodi so she's ok?"

I get that Jodi is a nice person on TV. That doesn't mean because she is a good mom and loved the kids that she is above reproach. She evidently wasn't thinking about the kids as much as she was thinking about herself when all of this started. I know, I'm going to get nasty comments saying how hateful I am to "attack" Jodi.

My guess is that Kate made it clear they will never have contact with the kids again, and they are using her sister's blog as a last ditch effort to make it clear that Jodi does care about the kids and not let J&K spin the story however they want.
No, Kate made it clear that Jodi wasn't going to be on the show any more. Julie's blog was started because she wanted people to know where "Aunt Jodi" really went. I also disagree that Julie's blog demonstrates caring about the kids. More so, it demonstrates anger at the parents.

I'm not saying Jodi didn't try. I'm not saying she didn't say to Kate "I don't care about the money." I'm just saying that there is a lot of anger because Although the refusal to allow Jodi to be compensated is ridiculous, the real reason members of the family are upset is the fact that Jodi is being replaced as the caregiver.

These are Julie's statements for why she went public with the blog. She claims that Jodi was the "voice for the children." But I guess my question is, would the "voice for the children" have a voice if she had gotten that contract?

The last thing you said was How do I know? Because I am in a similar situatin with my cousin who acts just like Kate.
With all due respect, you don't know Kate. Neither do I. Neither of us know Jodi either. So how can we make assumptions about what they are "like"?

Canadian Kate said...

Neither Jodi, nor her sister Julie, seem bitter or mean-spirited to me.

I felt like I 'got' Julie right away. She'd been watching the manipulation of the truth (and people) for years, and finally, when her much-loved sister was hurt by it, she spoke out.

I have never been easy with people who are casual with the truth and others' feelings - just to get something for themselves. I'd have felt compelled to say something, too.

anya said...

Canadian Kate said...
"Neither Jodi, nor her sister Julie, seem bitter or mean-spirited to me.

I felt like I 'got' Julie right away. She'd been watching the manipulation of the truth (and people) for years, and finally, when her much-loved sister was hurt by it, she spoke out.

I have never been easy with people who are casual with the truth and others' feelings - just to get something for themselves. I'd have felt compelled to say something, too."


I guess my question is, what do you think are the long-term ramifications of their actions? Are they positive for the family? I get that Julie and Jodi are hurt and want to get their version of the truth out there, but really what has been achieved?

I would hazard a guess that most people who watch the show do not also visit internet blogs about the show. So most viewers still have no clue of the drama. For those of us who do, we have formed our opinions. The release of Jodi's video, for instance, proved nothing to me other than that Jodi supported her sister's blogging. It actually (for me) was a negative reflection on her character.

Let's also remember that Julie has done more than rehash "Gumgate" (where Kate was clearly in the wrong) and the whole compensation issue. She has gotten on GWoP as a poster and shared personal details regarding the family. For example, she shared details about an Easter dinner at the Gosselins where she was an invited GUEST. She went on to tell some story about the potties (the folks on that site could talk about ALL DAY LONG about the potties!). Not classy, in my opinion.

So, I don't think anything has been achieved other than short-term satisfaction on Jodi and Julie's part that they have "exposed" Kate. The long-term consequence, however, is that the relationship between the sisters-in-law and by extension their husbands is further damaged and Kate will likely have a lot of trouble ever trusting Jodi again.

Anonymous said...

Anya said...
Let's also remember that Julie has done more than rehash "Gumgate" (where Kate was clearly in the wrong) and the whole compensation issue. She has gotten on GWoP as a poster and shared personal details regarding the family. For example, she shared details about an Easter dinner at the Gosselins where she was an invited GUEST. She went on to tell some story about the potties (the folks on that site could talk about ALL DAY LONG about the potties!). Not classy, in my opinion.


It's also not classy to let a film crew film and broadcast your children using said potties.

So it's okay for Jon & Kate to rehash their truth every week (and dozens of times per week through repeats) but it's not okay for anyone else involved to share their truth? Do you need a tv contract to share your truth? Jon & Kate's permission? What do Julie & Jodi need to do in order to get permission to share their personal truth?

Granted what we see on tv is a drop in the bucket (or potty if you prefer) - anyone who watches the Big Brother internet feeds vs. the tv edit can see how huge the difference is between actual reality and tv spun reality.

There's no difference with Jon & Kate Plus 8... except they themselves REPEATEDLY claim what you see is an honest portrayal of their daily life. That life did include Jodi, both on & off screen, and I believe she's just as entitled to talk as they are. As for Julie, if Jodi were my sister and I felt she needed me to take up her fight (whether she wanted me to or not) I'd be there and I'd be just as active. So from a sisterly standpoint I see exactly where Julie's coming from and the only one who should care is Jodi. If she's fine with it then why should anyone else care?

nomoredrama said...

With all due respect Anon 3:23,
Kate's having a television show and Julie's spreading gossip (and if you notice she words things VERY carefully...twists things to make sure J & K look bad and Jodi doesn't) are 2 very different things. If the purpose of Kate's reality show was to talk trash about her family then, sure, Julie and Jodi would have every right to talk too.

What did Kate do to Jodi publicly? Gumgate? Most people watching knew Kate was in the wrong and over- reacted. I remember watching that episode and feeling bad for Jodi. I thought it was ridiculous. I didn't need Julie to post 3 blog entries about how ridiculous it was.

If she wanted to get her side of the story out, great, call a reporter. Do an interview. Why continue to spread hatred and malign your sister in law to a bunch of strangers? Why does Julie need to continue to throw mud? Her side of the story is out....what next?

Anonymous said...

No More Drama -

I'll agree that I don't know Kate personally, and I never said she and my cousin were the same person. What I hope I implied is that they have similar personality traits in common. Controling - Check. Cutting off family members - check. Blaming problems on husband - check. Complaining that people should read their minds and jump to help them (re: complaining about Jon on the favorite and embarassing moments episode in particular.) - double check.

Most people fit into standard psychiatric profiles. Do they fit them exactly, no. Are they a mix of several profiles, yes. Are there dominant profiles yes. Kate has said that the show is a fair representation of their life, so taking KATE at her word, and using my personal experience with someone who has I am comfortable in stating that they are alike.

The main point of my 2 posts is that all it hurts is the kids, and adults should put the kids feelings ahead of their own. And again, I am talking from personal experience.

When the kids are old enough to search the internet, they will be able to see their Aunt Jodi say that she will always love them. And personally I don't think that is a bad thing.

nomoredrama said...

I hear ya, anon and agree that the kids are suffering. My only question,

Where does Jodi say "I'll aways love you"????

Anonymous said...

You are right, the purpose of Jodi's video was to thank people for their support.

When Jodi talked about how important family is to her, and when she broke down in the end, I saw it as Jodi stating her love for the children. However, that's just my interpretation and Jodi never comes out to say it.

Julie or Jodi - if you read this blog, in my opinion, it would be nice to send a message to the kids so they know how you feel about them, even though Jodi's not a daily part of their lives anymore.

Anonymous said...

No, Kate made it clear that Jodi wasn't going to be on the show any more.
-----------------------------------
Since it's clear that neither one of us were there, how do you know this is what Kate said?? We don't know when Kate stated (or if it was a nonverbal thing) that Jodi and Kevin are no longer a part of the tups life.

I don't know what Julie said on her Facebook page for Jodi or on TWoP because I never saw them. Did you see them? Assuming that it was someone close to the Gosslins who wrote Julie that email, what did she say that would get them so angry. All Julie has said was that her Facebook page was a fan page for Jodi, and I don't understand why anyone would take offense to that.

the real reason members of the family are upset is the fact that Jodi is being replaced as the caregiver.
-----------------------------------Since Jodi was never the sole caregiver for the tups, I have to disagree with you that this is all because Jodi can't babysit them anymore. There has to much more to it.

Anonymous said...

nomoredrama said...
With all due respect Anon 3:23,
Kate's having a television show and Julie's spreading gossip (and if you notice she words things VERY carefully...twists things to make sure J & K look bad and Jodi doesn't) are 2 very different things.


So J&K having a tv show where they sit on the couch each week sharing their gossip and twisting things their way is different? Anyone who has anything bad or contradictory to say about them is gossiping because J&K don't announce it on their show?

You'll also notice J&K word things very carefully. Not just on the show but on their website. There's plenty of tale spinning going on and it's not just from the "haters" camp.

If she wanted to get her side of the story out, great, call a reporter. Do an interview. Why continue to spread hatred and malign your sister in law to a bunch of strangers? Why does Julie need to continue to throw mud?

Yeah Jodi or Julie could've called a reporter and had their family issues splashed across the front of every tabloid. Instead they chose to air their grievances where only those seeking it would find it. Julie's original comments were on her personal blog, not advertised, not promoted by her. Same with any comments on her new blog or those at GWOP. You'll only see them if you visit or if someone who has visited shares them.

Neither of them are seeking publicity, if that were the case Jodi could've cashed in on the media cow months ago either by accepting TLC's hush money or by selling her story to the highest bidder. She didn't.

The biggest hint here is Jon & Kate's lack of response other than "we could choose to fight evil with evil" without specifying just what that evil is or why they would respond with evil if truth is on their side. Instead they choose to deflect naysayers by distracting their viewers with fluff and hoping that they don't look behind the curtain. If they TRULY wanted to "fight evil" they could ignore it completely, sue for libel & slander or address it directly. Not by putting little digs on their website. In that way they've "stooped" to the level Julie has been accused of occupying.

Love 'em or hate 'em both sides are speaking their own truth and we as the nitpickers have to be smart enough to take BOTH sides with a grain of salt and realize the actual truth is somewhere between the two stories.

nomoredrama said...

Since it's clear that neither one of us were there, how do you know this is what Kate said?? We don't know when Kate stated (or if it was a nonverbal thing) that Jodi and Kevin are no longer a part of the tups life.
Anon, I am only going by exactly what Julie said in her blog. That's all. She never says that Kate said that Jodi can't be in the kid's lives, just not on the show. I'm only surmising information based on what is posted at Julie's. Like I said, on her blog, Julie posted in early May that her sister was still involved in the kid's lives and that while the controversy was going on she was posting on TWoP and hadn't revealed who she was initially. She believes that J & K got wind of her facebook page for Jodi and sent her a nasty comment on her personal blog. I don't know how true this is, I'm just saying, based on how Julie presents the info, it is possible and even likely that J & K closed the relationship because of the gossip.Is it so far out of the question to imagine that maybe J & K felt betrayed? Especially since Julie makes no indication that Jodi ever talked in person to Kate about her feelings. She mentions a phone call where Jodi says "I don't care about the money" and Kate says "I can't allow you to be on the show." At no point does she mention Jodi challenging this. Seems that, from what her sister is saying, Jodi went along with it.

The way I see it, if Jodi had a problem then Jodi should speak up. And speak directly to Kate.

I don't know what Julie said on her Facebook page for Jodi or on TWoP because I never saw them. Did you see them? Assuming that it was someone close to the Gosslins who wrote Julie that email, what did she say that would get them so angry.
I haven't seen the facebook page. I have no idea what was on it. I'm going to guess it wasn't completely benign or why would it illicit such a response from this "fan" or "family member." To have a response like that for no reason doesn't make sense. So, either she didnt' get that email or she there is more to what was on the site than she said.

the real reason members of the family are upset is the fact that Jodi is being replaced as the caregiver.Since Jodi was never the sole caregiver for the tups, I have to disagree with you that this is all because Jodi can't babysit them anymore. There has to much more to it.

Those are Julie's words not mine. I literally ripped that statement from her blog. That is the reason she gave for coming forward. Do I think there is more to the story than that? Hell Yes!!! I'm just telling you what Julie said.

nomoredrama said...

Anon,
Please point me to the episode where Kate gossips about someone? And Jon and Kate have not, to my knowledge, answered any questions publicly about the Jodi situation. So while I'm not blind to the fact that they are in the public eye and have a PR person, I also don't how that relates to my original point which is that Julie seems to report situations to others so as to always make Kate look like a villain and Jodi look good. Of course, Julie is Jodi's sister so this is to be expected on some level but so transparent on every other level.

As far as going to the press, I see your point. It's a good one. However, I disagree that Jodi and Julie are not seeking publicity. Well, I should say, I don't agree that Julie is not seeking publicity. I 'get' having a blog...but she made it public. She then proceeds to continuously post (not anonymously with a registered s/n where others can just click to find her blog) on GWoP. Unless she is living in a bubble, she is well aware that posters from GWoP go to every J&K website, article or anything having to do with the show and promote their blog. She doesn't need to promote it, she has "people" to do that (hmm, isn't that one of the things Kate's been criticized for? Having people do the work for her?)

The biggest hint here is Jon & Kate's lack of response other than "we could choose to fight evil with evil" without specifying just what that evil is or why they would respond with evil if truth is on their side. Instead they choose to deflect naysayers by distracting their viewers with fluff and hoping that they don't look behind the curtain. If they TRULY wanted to "fight evil" they could ignore it completely, sue for libel & slander or address it directly. Not by putting little digs on their website. In that way they've "stooped" to the level Julie has been accused of occupying.

This section of your post seems to be contradictory. You are saying on one hand that they should keep silent, but on the other hand are implying that their silence is a "hint" of what? Their "guilt." But then your suggestion goes one step further...I said go to the media and you made some valid points about why this would be unwise or worse... you say, they should sue their family?????? Wouldn't that be a media circus? Do you think that would do those 12 children any bit of good to have their parents fighting a court battle? You see Jodi not going to the press as a sign of character. I see J & K not suing as a sign of character. To me, if they take the path of lawsuits, that is the point of no return. Have you considered that one day Jodi and Family could reconcile with Kate and family? I only hope this really does happen. Kate owes Jodi and apology and Jodi owes Kate the same.

As far as your last line Love 'em or hate 'em both sides are speaking their own truth and we as the nitpickers have to be smart enough to take BOTH sides with a grain of salt and realize the actual truth is somewhere between the two stories.

On this, my friend, I couldn't agree with you more.

Anonymous said...

No More Drama -

First can I say that I appreciate you taking the time to answer my posts and talking about this in a rational manner? It's a nice change from some of the other J&K sites out there.

I've just discovered the world of J&K blogs about 3 weeks, so everything is tending to blend into 1 and I am not sure what I've read where. I am pretty sure - though not 100% positive - Julie has posted on GWoP that Jodi and Kevin are not allowed in their lives anymore, which I think we both agree is a sad situation.

As I get more into this, it seems to me that Julie started off more reserved about what she was saying, and then as J&K responded/attacked (in, I think, Julie's opinion), she has let more information out - almost, in my view, as a form of revenge. I think she first listed the caregiver reason, but has expanded on that in different forums.

I do think that if Jodi really wanted to cause them problems, 1 tell all interview would have done it, plus she would be able to "cash in" as Aunt Jodi.

I know you don't think Julie's blog is an appropriate forum for airing out the problems Jodi and Kate has, but just consider this.

You are watching a "reality" show that is edited to make your sister look like a ditsy, incompetant babysitter. You know she is nothing like that, but the show isn't about her and she has no say in how she is portrayed. So you can stand by and watch millions of fans who watch the show think that of her, or you can speak out.

Sure, Jodi could have talked to Kate, but do you honestly think Jon and Kate think there was anything wrong about their comments about Jodi?? Look at the way they make fun of their kids - I'm sure they would have brushed it off as Jodi being too sensitive then made fun of her even more.

Do I think the gossip Julie stated on her blog pissed off J&K? I'm sure it did but at the same time, I didn't think what she wrote about gumgate was that bad or looked like Julie was betraying family secrets back then. I am sure if J&K asked Jodi to ask her sister to take down her blog, Julie would have closed it down.

I think they should be a therapist on the show to discuss everyone's issues - how real would that be (LOL)?

nomoredrama said...

Anon 9:22,
I'm not convinced that if J & K asked Julie to take down the blog, even in the beginning, she would have given in to that request. At that point, she was hell bent on making her point.

Just a couple more comments on what was said....

I am pretty sure - though not 100% positive - Julie has posted on GWoP that Jodi and Kevin are not allowed in their lives anymore, which I think we both agree is a sad situation.
This is my understanding as well. My question is, how did it get this far? As Julie stated, it didn't happen as a direct result of Kate saying Jodi couldn't be on the show. It happened a few weeks later. What I surmise (and yes, this is only my opinion based on what I've read) is that this part of the rift may have happened because of the gossip on the internet.

As I get more into this, it seems to me that Julie started off more reserved about what she was saying, and then as J&K responded/attacked (in, I think, Julie's opinion), she has let more information out

Actually, someone asked Julie on GWoP if she is receiving backlash or threats from J & K or their team about the blog. She said that J & K have said nothing to Julie, Kevin or Jodi about the blog. So really, the only thing she has is that initial email (about the facebook) that she suspected was from Jon but had no proof whatsoever. She started to release more info as it became more and more clear that Jodi would not be on the show and probably the final blow was Jodi being out of the kid's lives.

I do think that if Jodi really wanted to cause them problems, 1 tell all interview would have done it, plus she would be able to "cash in" as Aunt Jodi.

You know what, this never occurred to me until now. I wonder if the reason Jodi has not gone to the press was because she signed a confidentiality agreement! If she did, it probably included all forms of media but probably didn't include internet blogs. If that's the case, that means that Jodi is not releasing that info in public because she can get sued by TLC. Here I am, convinced by the last poster that she did a somewhat honorable thing by not going to the press when it could be that she wasn't able to go to the press for legal reasons.

You are watching a "reality" show that is edited to make your sister look like a ditsy, incompetant babysitter.You know she is nothing like that, but the show isn't about her and she has no say in how she is portrayed. So you can stand by and watch millions of fans who watch the show think that of her, or you can speak out.
In one episode this was the case. One episode. No I don't think Kate's bad behavior on one episode required this type of backlash. She wasn't generally portrayed that way. Like I said before, anyone who watched that show knows that Kate behaved badly. People, according to J &J, were coming up to Jodi in the supermarket saying "sorry about the gum." Come on, a blog was not necessary, Kate's foot was firmly planted in her mouth. And the blog was NOT a result of gumgate...it was a result of much, much more.

Sure, Jodi could have talked to Kate, but do you honestly think Jon and Kate think there was anything wrong about their comments about Jodi??
I don't think that's a fair statement to make. J & K have admitted to being wrong about certain situations publicly. Just because Kate is controlling and sarcastic doesn't mean she can't have an adult conversation. It seems, on the other hand, that Jodi is unable to stand up for herself i n the most basic ways. That is how her SISTER is making her look now, without any help from J & K.

Linda said...

"You are watching a "reality" show that is edited to make your sister look like a ditsy, incompetant babysitter."

You see. I disagree with this about 99%. I think that episode made Kate look controlling, obsessed with cleaning, and ungrateful.

Most everyone I know thought that even that small edited clip of Kate's reaction to Jodi was way over the top. I think that it made Kate look bad.

I remember thinking, "Oh please Kate. Stop it's just gum."

I did not start thinking poorly of Jodi until I read what her sister Julie started writing at her blog and then especially after it was revealed that she was sharing info with the lovelies from the GwoP blog.


i

Anonymous said...

We both agree that the blog was started for more reasons than just gumgate - I think we just disagree on what those other reason are.

See, I think when Jon and Kate make little comments or roll their eyes when they talk about Jodi, they are implying that she's ditsy and this has happened in more than 1 episode. My favorite example is when Kate says, in the interview chair, "Bless her heart, Jodi tries", which to me implies that Kate does not think Jodi is up to her standards. Again, keep in mind that I am referring to the show as a whole and not just the Gumgate episode.

In some of the more recent episodes, I was shocked to find out that Jodi had 4 kids. In the beginning we saw baby Benny, and maybe her daughter (to be honest I really only remember Benny) and from Kate's comments, I got the impression that Kate thought Jodi would get too overwhelmed and couldn't handle a lot of kids at once.

To find out in the hair transplant episode that not only she has 4 kids but would watch the other 8 espeically when they are sick to me was pretty remarkable and inconsitent with the initial impression - based on Kate's comments - I had of Jodi in the beginning of the series.

From what I have read from Julie, it is my impression that this is one of the reasons she started her facebook page and then her blog, because on the show Jodi doesn't get to respond for herself. If Jodi was my sister, I'm sure I would view things differently than a normal viewer (which is why I think Julie comes off as so militant about Jodi). I would be on blogs standing up for my sister as well. Has Julie taken it too far? If that email she received was in fact from Jon, then I would say no, because there was some pretty nasty things said. And if the TLC payment issue is true, then I think that's pretty horrible of Kate to treat someone who has been really good to your family.

Actually, someone asked Julie on GWoP if she is receiving backlash or threats from J & K or their team about the blog. She said that J & K have said nothing to Julie, Kevin or Jodi about the blog.
-----------------------------
I read that as well, which is why I believe talking with Jon and Kate really wouldn't get anywhere. If the blog didn't bother them, why cut Jodi and Kevin out of the kids life? A nonverbal, passive/agressive way saying they are mad? If it did bother them, why not talk about it with Jodi? I thought, though I am not positive, Julie has said that Jon knows about the blog and said it did not bother him, which is why I am leaning towards passive/aggressive.

J & K have admitted to being wrong about certain situations publicly
-----------------------------
And yet they have said nothing about Gumgate, which most people, including their supporters, agree was the wrong way to handle the situation.

And don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Kate can't have an adult conversation. What I am saying is, based on what we see on TV, Jon and Kate like to make comments about Joel's lisp, Maddie's tantrums, about things that bother them about each other, and Jodi's babysitting skills. That's the type of personality they have. Jon and Kate think making fun of those things are acceptable, and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with stating things they feel are facts.

Peronally, I think to make fun of, and label, your kids is wrong in general but to it in front of a national audience is almost criminal. I think for the rest of her life Maddie is going to be fighting the label of the difficult one. I'm sure this is crictism that they have heard before and yet they don't stop. This is why I think if Jodi were to talk to Kate about elements on the show that make her look bad, Kate wouldn't care because Kate doesn't think she is saying (or doing in case of the eye rolls) anything wrong.

Everyone makes mistakes, and nobody is perfect. But what I would like to say is that if I had a sister in law who had 4 kids of her own - including a newborn!- and would take my six toddlers in addition to her kids to give me a break, I would cut her some slack and approach her about how they feel instead of cutting them out of their lives.

One thing Julie has said that makes me think that Jodi did NOT sign a confidentiality agreement. When she talked about how TLC wanted to pay her and Kate said no and TLC was going to pay her anyway, as long as Jodi signed a contract. Julie didn't go into specifics of the contract, but I was led to believe it has a confidentially clause in it. Jodi refused to sign it or accept the money, so I think she is free to talk to who ever she wants and chooses not to.

Guinevere said...

And yet they have said nothing about Gumgate, which most people, including their supporters, agree was the wrong way to handle the situation.

Even though I think that "gumgate" was Kate's nadir, mothering-wise (though personally I was more uncomfortable with her blame-shifting in the "Embarrassing Moments" episode), I don't know that I believe it was worthy of some public statement. She didn't hit her kid, for heaven's sake. She lost her temper and was mean. I would like to think she apologized later, but I don't know one way or another; I know Kate is good at justifying her behavior to herself.

So, I agree that Kate's behavior was unequivocally wrong in that instance, but I also think sometimes mothers lose their temper and get angry and say nasty things to their kids. Again, not, to me, so out of the realm of the ordinary as to be deserving of a public statement.

The thing I've never gotten about Julie's "defending" Jodi is that Jodi had been universally liked and admired by fans online, from what I could see. I never saw one word of criticism of Jodi before Julie started her blog and started posting at GWoP and agitating the Kate-hating masses. Yes, Kate was bitchy about Jodi on that episode, and has been a touch condescending at other times, but I'm pretty sure even Kate fans accepted that as Kate's opinion on Jodi, not the gospel truth. So there was nothing to defend. Jodi didn't NEED defending because no one, save possibly Kate, saw her as "ditzy" or anything of that sort.

So my perception remains that Julie was angry at Kate for her treatment of Jodi, and she started up not to defend Jodi, but to hurt Kate. Unfortunately, it seems to have had farther-reaching consequences, and really damaged the relationship between J&K and Jodi (and possibly Kevin; I don't know). She may defend her behavior as "exposing the truth", but when you look at the consequences, how can you conclude anything but that she should have kept her mouth shut?

Anonymous said...

Even though I think that "gumgate" was Kate's nadir...I don't know that I believe it was worthy of some public statement.
----------------------------
I think Gumgate would have fit perfectly in their "Embarassing Moments" show, and that she should have apologized to Jodi on camera for overreacting, especially when people have pointed out that Kate and Jon have given the kids gum before.

I admit that I am guilty of losing my temper with my kids as well. I too hope that Kate took the opportunity to explain to the kids that everyone loses their temper sometimes, including mommy, and that she was sorry.

Jodi didn't NEED defending because no one, save possibly Kate, saw her as "ditzy" or anything of that sort.
--------------------------------
Well, I've previously explained that I did get the impression in the beginning from things Kate has said that Jodi wasn't capable of handling the kids, when in fact, she is capable and was doing it already, so I have to disagree with you there.

I agree that from a viewer's perspective, that there was no need to defend Jodi because it did become apparent that Jodi is capable.

However, if you are emotionally invested in the situation, know inside information that the viewer is not aware of, you are going to see things differently than the average viewer. That's all I am saying.

nomoredrama said...

Hey Anon,
You said a lot in your post and I apologize in advance as this post will be lengthy so I can answer what you wrote.

See, I think when Jon and Kate make little comments or roll their eyes when they talk about Jodi, they are implying that she's ditsy and this has happened in more than 1 episode.
I don't agree that J & K tried to make Jodi look ditsy on the series. I don't know that there were many fans of the show who saw her in this way. I actually used to feel bad for her when the kids were going crazy. I'm not going to agree that the editing or even J & K's body language (body language is subjective at times) portrayed Jodi , on the whole, as being ditsy. If she said or did something ditsy (I 'm not saying she did) then it's not editing that made her look ditsy, it was her own actions. As Julie says on her blog, they can't edit what you don't give them. (Once again, not calling her a ditsy, just making a point).

In some of the more recent episodes, I was shocked to find out that Jodi had 4 kids...I got the impression that Kate thought Jodi would get too overwhelmed and couldn't handle a lot of kids at once.

I was shocked to find out she had 4 kids too, but not because I think Kate made her look back, but because of Jodi's willingness to help out with the Gosselin kids all the time. See, impressions are also subjective. I never saw Jodi as anything but kind and nurturing...seemed like a true friend. I personally don't see how anyone watching the show could see her (in the episodes) as anything other than that. Which is why I'm so baffled by this "Kate made Jodi look like a ditz." I think Julie is the first person I ever heard say that about Jodi. Before the blogs, I would have defended her tooth and nail. Not so much now that there is, obviously, another side to her.

From what I have read from Julie, it is my impression that this is one of the reasons she started her facebook page and then her blog, because on the show Jodi doesn't get to respond for herself.
I don't buy that. Too much was going on in the 2 weeks that she opened the blog for that to be true. She may have said that, but I don't buy it.

Has Julie taken it too far? If that email she received was in fact from Jon, then I would say no, because there was some pretty nasty things said.
Even IF the email was from Jon, I don't agree with this statement. You think that one nasty email deserves months and months of attacking plus joining forces with people who hate this family? Nothing justifies that to me.

I read that as well, which is why I believe talking with Jon and Kate really wouldn't get anywhere. If the blog didn't bother them, why cut Jodi and Kevin out of the kids life?
Julie's post did not state that the blog didn't bother the Gosselins. How would she know, she is not now nor has she ever been friends with them (only a family relationship). What the post said was that Julie, Jodi and Kevin have not been HARASSED by The Gosselins...see below...
q: I realize that Julie is busy with her own family and career but is there a specific reason that she does not post on her blog anymore? I have read her comments on here so she must have some time to go online, I'm hoping its not because of threats from the Gosselins.
a: Jodi and I agreed to what I would blog about before I started. It wasn't meant to be a "tell-all". Not a word has been said to me, Jodi or Kevin about my blog.


To say that J & K's choice to not HARASS Julie, Jodi and Kevin is proof that they are unapproachable seems a strange conclusion to draw, IMO. In fact, it seems to me it proves the opposite. Who is slinging around the mud? It's not J&K. I'll give ya a hint, her name begins with a J and ends with an ulie.

Why didn't they talk about it with Jodi after all of this. I don't know because I'm not them. I also don't know that they didn't try (they're not blogging all of their moves). If they haven't tried, my guess are that is because of 2 reasons 1. Hurt feelings. 2. Pride. Should they try to speak to Jodi? Probably...but if she is going to continue to be a part of the rumor spreading, hate site then I think they are under no obligation to keep "knocking" at her door. She's obviously "choosing what she can live with (quote from Julie)" and, apparently, she and her husband can live without a relationship with the family.

As far as apologizing for gumgate...yeah but Jodi has a TON of apologizing to do. She is no innocent party, especially now.

and one more thing for the road...

One thing Julie has said that makes me think that Jodi did NOT sign a confidentiality agreement. When she talked about how TLC wanted to pay her and Kate said no and TLC was going to pay her anyway, as long as Jodi signed a contract. Julie didn't go into specifics of the contract, but I was led to believe it has a confidentially clause in it. Jodi refused to sign it or accept the money, so I think she is free to talk to who ever she wants and chooses not to.


You really need to go to truthbreedshatred.blogspot.com, Julie's blog. Nowhere does it say that Jodi refused to sign the contract. The problem is that Jodi WANTED a contract and would have appreciated being compensated. It says that KATE REFUSED to give her the contract. I highly doubt that she was on a television show without signing at least some form of a confidentiality agreement. There are too much "inside info" about things even outside of the family that the network wouldn't want the public to know.

Ok, I'm done...I'm falling asleep as I post so I hope this is making sense :-)

Anonymous said...

No more drama -

I get where you are coming from. Just to clarify, a lot of the comments I used from Julie were from GWoP - she seems much more active there than on her own blog. I'm not going to say with 100% certainity that my quotes are accurate - I'll try to find them but I don't remember on that blog where I find them - but I'm pretty sure that is what Julie has stated (especially the part about the contract.)

Anonymous said...

Its the children who are being hurt by the family rift. Years will go by and the families may try to forgive and forget but the bond the kids (both sides) would have had with their aunts, uncles and cousins will never be what it should have been. I know because I'm living it...

Anonymous said...

Anon -

I hear you - I'm living it too. The hardest part is explaining to my 5 and 6 year old why they can't go to their cousins' house, or why they can't come to their birthday party. I know their cousin Kailey misses them too (her brother is too young to remember them playing together.)

Anonymous said...

No More Drama -

Here is the quote from GWOP website from Julie regarding the confidentially contract.
-----------------------------
QUESTION: Does Jodie have legal recourse to get paid by TLC for all the work she put in that was shown on TV?

Answer: About a month ago, Jodi was contacted by TLC and they offered to pay her for a trip that she took back in April. They wanted her sign some paperwork, but I don't know the specifics of what it said. When J&K signed on for season 4, their new PR person made sure that workers sign a confidentiality agreement. It appears that TLC was trying to pay Jodi, but only if she would sign something. She refused and told them that she is no longer involved with the show, so she didn't feel comfortable signing anything.

----------------------------

It is found on GWOP Q&A section. the post was made on 8/8/08 at 8:42pm. Julie also had some interesting things to say on 8/7/08at 6:54pm.

As I mentioned before, Julie has posted additional information - more than what is on her blog- at GWOP, which makes for interesting reading.

nomoredrama said...

Ok, yeah, that is interesting. So the confidentiality statement theory is out. However, this doesn't mean that what Julie says on her blog is untrue about what originally happened. This happened after the whole fall-out. The final parting of ways happened some time in May. After that, Jodi was angry, wasn't a part of the kid's lives and wasn't speaking to Kate. Of course she refused to sign anything, the blogs were already out...she'd be an idiot to sign something at that point.

Anonymous said...

No more Drama -

I agree with you that Julie seems angry at the Gosselins, and seems hell bent on destroying the image Jon and Kate are trying to represent. However, I haven't read anything about Jodi being angry, if anything she seems hurt and sad by the situation, and resigned to the fact that she will no longer be part of the kids life. This is Julie quoting Jodi about the situation - "Jodi always says "it is what it is". Can I ask where you got the impression that Jodi was angry?

Again, while I know most people here think the people on GWOP are rabid haters but I would suggest that you go to Julie's response in the Q&A section she wrote on 8/7/08at 6:54pm becaue it does provide more information about the situation.

Julie says that Jon brought the kids by to see Kevin and Jodi in June, so obviously they were still talking then and Jodi and Kate had an email conversation when they got back, where Kate never said that she was angry about the blog or that Jodi couldn't see the kids. Just that Kate won't make time for Kevin and Jodi in their lives.

And she states this as the reason for starting her blog:

around that time that I started reading discussion boards and figuring out what had been going on in the episodes and speaking engagements. The more I read, the more I found out that everyone was being deceived. I couldn’t believe the lies that were being told. It started to really bother me. I also thought it was horrible what they did to Jodi, and I knew that they’d either never mention Jodi again (as they did with Beth) or make up some excuse that it was just too much for Jodi or something like that. Jodi and I had many talks about what was going on...I told Jodi that I wanted to blog about a few things that were bothering me. Basically, the lies they were telling during their speaking engagements, the amount of help that they have, the reason Jodi wouldn’t be on the show, and I also wanted to set the story straight about the gum. I didn’t want to make things any worse for Jodi, so we just waited to see what would happen with J&K.

The last statement makes me think that Julie would stop her blog of John and Kate asked her to to help preserve Jodi and the Gosselins relationship.

nomoredrama said...

Anon,
Julie says one thing one minute and another thing the next minute. I have read that account which totally contradicts what she writes on her blog...which makes her credibility somewhat questionable. Does this make sense to you...Jon is supposedly incensed that Julie started a facebook fanpage for Jodi but doesn't care at all about her blog?

Do you really, honestly think that the Gosselins don't care about the blog? Even if they said they didn't care. I would interpret that as "hey, we're not going to show you we care..." Jon, trying to play the tough guy. They'd have to literally be robots not to have any feelings about in. Have you read their website. Everyone said "they're being so passive-aggressive with the repaying evil for evil thing." What do you think they are talking about there?

The more Julie posts, the more her story doesn't make sense. One one hand, she says the kids don't see each other (on a later Q&A on GWoP) and just a few weeks earlier she says they aren't not speaking, per say...just Jodi has lost her usefulness.

Again, this totally does not jive. It doesn't make sense. There is no way on God's green earth that these families are on good terms with each other (If they are, then this is a publicity stunt for the show and it's working well).

If it's not a publicity stunt, then there is no way on earth that J&K are fine with this and there is no way on earth that Jodi is not ANGRY AND HURT about what has happened.

The fact that Julie's story keeps getting flip flopped (well, they're in each other's lives, oh wait, the kids don't see each other. Oh, Jon threatened me. Oh wait, he doesn't care) is not just suspicious, it's annoying.

Judge Judy always says "If you tell the truth, you don't have to have a good memory." Meaning, you don't have to keep track of all of the stories you told before because everything will be consistent every time you tell it.

Something to ponder (the quote)

nomoredrama said...

more contradiction....

It is very hard to speak out. We waited 2 months after the relationship with was severed to speak out. I kept hoping and praying that they wouldn't cut Jodi and Kevin out of their "real life" just because she wasn't going to be on the show. It was NEVER about the show for Jodi. She was being the aunt that she has always been. I'm thankful that my children have Aunt Jodi in their lives.

This was posted under the penn mommy thread on GWoP on 9/3. Sounds like the story changes a bit from month to month.

nomoredrama said...

Forgot to add that it was posted by Julie.

Anonymous said...

No more drama -

I think the story would be consistant if it was coming straight from Jodi, but it is coming second hand from Julie so I am sure there are misunderstandings along the way.

It's a pretty safe bet to say it was Jon and Kate's decision to cut Jodi out of the show and the kids lives (for reasons unknown. Was it because Jodi was becoming more popular than Kate, was it the money issue, or was it because TLC gave them money for a nanny/assistant? Since Kate has stated that it's best to have family watch the kids, I am guessing the first 2 are more likely.)

Apparently that happened in April, and since the blog's first entry isn't until May 6th, how could that be the reason Kate chose to end her relationship with Jodi and Kevin?

I agree that Julie's blog has made the situation worse, but look at Kate and Jon's history. Mad at family members - then they are gone, and don't seem to be coming back anytime soon. And the way Kate treats people (really, did she need to make the comments about the train conductor that she did?) By Kate's own addmission, what you see on tv is what you get, so you can get a basis for her personality traits. And once you are out, you are out. So you see a person on TV who is demanding, shuts important people out of her kids lives, who is rude sometimes to the point of being offensive, controling, belittles her husband, is inconsistant with the rules she sets for her household, and refuses to let her kids do things that normal kids do (Jon and Kate, if you read this, PLEASE let your kids color with washable markers!!!! you get the clothes for free, what are you losing if they get a stain on it??)and apparently can't address problems by talking them out to try and solve them. This is who you are choosing the stand behind?

But you only saw a small part of Jodi's life (so granted it is harder to make a judgement call on her personality), and the parts you did see she was caring, thoughtful, and most of all calm. So yes, I can believe she's not angry or bitter about the situation because there are some people who don't let high strung, emotional people like Kate effect them. Personally, I can't do it (really wish I could) but things that bug me don't effect my best friend Tracy at all. However, I do agree with you that Jodi is hurt, which I've already stated.

Earlier, you accused me of judging Kate when I did not know her. Aren't you doing the same with Jodi and Julie? You don't know them and you don't know their intentions, so just because you feel that Jodi should be angry about the situation doesn't mean she is.

As for Jon's email, Julie has said all long that while she suspects it's from Jon, there was no way to 100% confirm an anon email. I think it's fair to say that since Jon didn't put his name on the email, Julie can state she's never had a conversation with him about her blog.

All I have to say is that actions speak louder than words, and if Jodi really was looking to cause problems for Jon and Kate, I am sure a tabloid or US or People magazine would pay her to spill her guts on a national level - which would do the Gosselins much greater harm than Julie's blog could ever do.

nomoredrama said...

I think the story would be consistant if it was coming straight from Jodi, but it is coming second hand from Julie so I am sure there are misunderstandings along the way.
How could Julie be this confused about timing of things when she's been supporting her sister all along. That's not an excuse. Secondly, that leads to the question WHY does Julie still need to speak for Jodi but that is a whole 'nother topic.

t's a pretty safe bet to say it was Jon and Kate's decision to cut Jodi out of the show and the kids lives (for reasons unknown. Was it because Jodi was becoming more popular than Kate, was it the money issue, or was it because TLC gave them money for a nanny/assistant? Since Kate has stated that it's best to have family watch the kids, I am guessing the first 2 are more likely.
To say that Kate cut Jodi out of their lives because Jodi was more popular is laughable. Jodi was on the show for a sum total of maybe 3 hours of airtime (and thats being generous). I'm not saying people didn't like her, but I don't think she was upstaging the Gosselins or the tups. I think it's 'pretty safe to say' that it had nothing to do with popularity. I think it's also safe to say that it did have something to do with money and, of course, you left out BLOGS and GOSSIP.

Apparently that happened in April, and since the blog's first entry isn't until May 6th, how could that be the reason Kate chose to end her relationship with Jodi and Kevin?
First of all, Jodi and Kevin were "in the kid's lives" from what I now understand (you pointed this out to me, btw) until late June when this conversation was supposedly had with Jon saying he didn't care about the blogs. Well, after Julie's blog off of the ground. And, before Julie's blog was the facebook page and the TWoP threads. So yes, it still stands to reason that the cut off was because of the blogging but Julie will never admit this.

The reason I suspect Julie is changing her story is because she a. wants to make Jodi look good b. doesn't want to have to admit that she and Jodi played a role in Jodi and Kevin being "dismissed" for the Gosselin kid's lives.

Kate and Jon's history. Mad at family members - then they are gone, and don't seem to be coming back anytime soon. And the way Kate treats people (really, did she need to make the comments about the train conductor that she did?)

Ok, I don't want to be rude but PLEASE!!! COME ON!!! She didn't treat the train conductor any way. They were FINE. They weren't rude to him. They said later that it was boring...hello? Have you ever been there? I have. It is boring and the talk was not geared in any way towards the audience (which was an audience of 4 year olds and two 7 year olds). They were being HONEST. An adult might fall asleep through a talk like that. Again, I don't mean to be rude but I think that is being nit-picky, IMO. If you've never been bored by a presentation, conference, museum tour, ect. then ok but seriously...give the woman a break

And as far as their history of being mad at family members, I don't see too many others on Kate's side of the family being friendly with one another. Julie says at GWoP that "Kate likes to make you believe that the grandparents don't see the grandchildren but there are members of the family they have contact with." [not an exact quote] Notice she didn't say Jodi and Kevin have contact. I'd bet the farm that they don't. But Julie can't say that because she has to make it seem like Kate is the type to cut everyone out. So...she does her very careful answering hoping nobody catches on that she didn't mention Jodi.

You wrote quite a lengthy paragraph about Standing behind mean, cruel, controlling, belittling Kate who cuts people out of her life. I'm not going to copy and paste the whole thing because it's rather lengthy. My response to that is this: People who you deem to be unlikeable still have rights. They have a right to decide who provides care for their children. They have a right to decide who gets paid for their television show. They have a right to their opinions just like you have a right to yours. Did they make the right decision by not paying Jodi? I've said 1000 times that I don't agree with the course they took. But what about the argument that these people NEVER wanted money until they found out they could have it. Kate NEVER had to question who loved the kids for being who they were. Isn't it possible that this is the reason she wanted to keep money out of th relationship...to avoid exactly what is happening now. Don't you think it's possible that she didn't want Jodi as a nanny, she wanted her has a sister in law?

But you only saw a small part of Jodi's life (so granted it is harder to make a judgement call on her personality), and the parts you did see she was caring, thoughtful, and most of all calm.
I could argue with you and point you to episodes where Jodi was clearly haggard at the end of the day while caring for the kids. Hello, the hole-in-the-wall episode. But, regardless, even if she was the PICTURE of patience for the 3 hours you saw of her on TV, that does not mean she is incapable of being angry and bitter. EVERYONE gets angry. EVERYONE. It's OK to feel angry. It's Ok for Jodi to be angry. Would Jodi be human if she wasn't angry, at least on some level, at what is happening? And yes, she IS bitter. I don't care what you say. You can argue until you are blue in the face. Nice people can get bitter. In fact, the nicer you are, sometimes, the more bitter you get. Jodi comes off as a very non-confrontational person who struggles to say "No." Julie implies this in her writings. People who struggle with the word "no" build up a lot of bitterness and resentment. They begin to feel used and unappreciated. I think it's 'safe to say' that is is partially how Jodi felt. The argument that because your a good parent, you are incapable of these emotions is not a logical one, IMO.

As for Jon's email, Julie has said all long that while she suspects it's from Jon, there was no way to 100% confirm an anon email. I think it's fair to say that since Jon didn't put his name on the email, Julie can state she's never had a conversation with him about her blog.
The email was regarding the FACEBOOK, not the blog. Plus, very early in the thread you said Has Julie taken it too far? If that email she received was in fact from Jon, then I would say no, because there was some pretty nasty things said. You said that it was ok for for Julie to spread her gossip if that email came from Jon. You implied that the email likely came from Jon or someone on the Gosselin team. Now you are trying to backtrack and say there is no proof that it is from Jon to try to further your argument that the Gosselins don't care about what's going on. You can't have it both ways. You can't keeping changing your opinion so it fits your argument better. Decide if you think its from him or if you think it's not.

All I have to say is that actions speak louder than words, and if Jodi really was looking to cause problems for Jon and Kate, I am sure a tabloid or US or People magazine would pay her to spill her guts on a national level - which would do the Gosselins much greater harm than Julie's blog could ever do.
You're right, actions do speak louder than words and Jodi and Julie's actions leave much to be desired.

Oh, and as far as Us and People...the folks at GWoP have been trying and trying to no avail to have a reputable magazine pick up the story. Guess what? In show business, this happens all the time. To the entertainment world, a squabble over money is not breaking news (unless, of course, there are lawsuits involved). If a reputable magazine picks this story up at all it will be due to advocacy efforts of Paul Peterson, not this nonsense.

Anonymous said...

I've said before that I am a similiar situation with my cousin, where for the most part my cousin has cut people who disagreed with her out of her kids lives, much like Kate does. Yesterday, through some fluke circumstances and a dire need by my cousin because she wanted a babysitter, I was able to take her daughter to the carnival with my kids. So I can honestly say that I have seen her daughter and have spent time with her. At the same time, I can also honestly say that we aren't a part of her life. Things aren't always cut and dry.

Things are not miraculously better with my cousin. I can't call her to set up a play date with my kids, and she will never call me even to say thank you or to take my kids somewhere in return. As a matter of fact, when my husband went to go drop her off at her house, my kids were not even allowed inside, despite the fit her daughter threw because she really wanted to play longer with my kids. Her husband met my husband outside with some lame excuse on how my cousin was sound asleep at 7:00 pm on a Saturday night, which was why they couldn't come in.

You are lucky that you don't have a family member like this, so your relm of knowledge can't accept how it's possible for such contradictions to be true. Or how you will allow yourself to be treated like 2nd hand help because you believe it's important for the kids to be part of their lives, so you take what ever you can get. There is really no way I can explain to you how things can contradict one another yet can still be true.

This is my take on the whole Jodi vs. Julie situation:

People who you deem to be unlikeable still have rights
------------------------------
I never said Kate didn't have any rights to do what she wants. She absolutely does. What I was doing is questioning your judgement for standing by her.

Kate is their parent, and ideally is looking out for their best interest. Since we are talking about the Kate and Jodi situation, I am going to limit my comments to that. I don't believe KAte acts in the best interests of her children. I believe it is wrong to cut family members out of your kids life out of spite. I believe if you have a problem with them you try to work it out before you cut them out of your kids lives, and by all accounts, no where does it show that Kate and Jon tried to sit down and try to come to a solution. While I don't necessarily think Julie's Blog is effective in solving the situation, I do believe that Jodi and Julie felt, based on their past experiences with Jon and Kate, that Jon and Kate were going to eliminate Jodi and Kevin out of their lives because they were no longer of use to them, and that's why they went ahead with the blog. And because Kate was the one to fire Jodi, after everything she has done for her, I think it is up to Kate to approach Jodi to talk about the situation, not for Jodi to have to go to Kate. After all, Jodi didn't quit, Kate fired her. This is my own conclusion based on everything I have read about the situation, and while you can try to refute some of the things I have said, you are not going to sway my beliefs.


I think the story would be consistant if it was coming straight from Jodi, but it is coming second hand from Julie so I am sure there are misunderstandings along the way.
How could Julie be this confused about timing of things when she's been supporting her sister all along.
-------------------------------
Actually, it's pretty easy for misunderstands to happen. For example, when I wrote "It's a pretty safe bet to say it was Jon and Kate's decision to cut Jodi out of the show and the kids lives," I thought it was pretty clear that the specific time period I was referring to was when Kate fired Jodi from babysitting the kids in April. Yet your response "and, of course, you left out BLOGS and GOSSIP." clearly indicates a time period after Kate fired her, because Julie's facebook page and blog happened after she was fired. It shows you did not get the point I was trying to make, even though the following sentence specifically states the time period I am referring to "Apparently that happened in April, and since the blog's first entry isn't until May 6th, how could that be the reason Kate chose to end her relationship with Jodi and Kevin?" See how easy misunderstandings happen even when they are written down in B&W?


Now you are trying to backtrack and say there is no proof that it is from Jon to try to further your argument that the Gosselins don't care about what's going on. --------------------------------
Actually, what I am saying is that Jon or Kate hasn't mentioned their opinion of Julie's Blog at all. If you have a quote from them saying what they think specifically of her blog, I would like to see it. So I can believe that Jon wrote the email all I want, it doesn't neccesarily make it true. I'm just saying that technically, no one with 100% certainity can say it's from Jon because it was anon. At least Julie owns up and is accountable for the things she says and doesn't hide behind being anon, whether you agree with them or not.
That's my point.

You implied that the email likely came from Jon or someone on the Gosselin team.
----------------------------
Actually, Julie implied this, and I just agreed that her statement was a possibility. (Do you have an idea who sent the email? What's your theory?) And just curious, but who do consider the Gosselin "team" to be? I'm pretty sure that I have never referred anyone having a team.

And actually, let me show what you copied. I said "Has Julie taken it too far? If that email she received was in fact from Jon," Where do I state that I believed the email was from Jon? When does using IF implies I believe something? I am not backtracking or changing my opinions on anything. You are just misunderstanding the things that I am writing.


and, of course, you left out BLOGS and GOSSIP.
-------------------------
I was talking about a specific period in time when Kate told Jodi she didn't want her on the show, and didn't need her to babysit. So actually, no, I didn't forget the BLOGS and the GOSSIP, all that happened before Julie started her facebook page or blog.

Her facebook and Blog were not even an issue when Kate fired her. Again, see my personal reference on how I believe they can say the saw the kids but aren't a part of their lives. Are you really arguing that they had the same relationship after Kate fired her than they did when Jodi was watching the kids? Maybe I should have said they weren't an active part of their life before. My point of bringing up that Jon brought the kids over to their house was that he had the opportunity to try and resolve the situation then, and chose not to.


The reason I suspect Julie is changing her story is because she a. wants to make Jodi look good b. doesn't want to have to admit that she and Jodi played a role in Jodi and Kevin being "dismissed" for the Gosselin kid's lives.
--------------------------
I'd be interested in seeing a timeline from your perspective of the series of events that led to Jodi not being part of the Gosselins life. No matter how you want to arrange things, Kate essentially "fired" Jodi from babysitting first. And I'm really not going to get into the arguement about how awful it was that Kate refused to let Jodi get paid for the work she was doing especially after everything Jodi and Kevin has done for them.


You said that it was ok for for Julie to spread her gossip
------------------------
Actually, if she is telling the truth, is that consider gossip? As you used in your previous arguement, COME ON, she's just being HONEST about what has happened with the Gosselins! How could telling the truth be bad? Just because you don't want to believe it doesn't mean it's not true. Neither one of us will ever know for sure.


She didn't treat the train conductor any way. They were FINE. They weren't rude to him. They said later that it was boring...hello? Have you ever been there?
------------------------------
I first saw that episode before I really started getting into these blogs, and my first thought was, wow! Kate must have really pissed off someone on the production team for them to air that comment that makes her look really ungrateful for everything those people did. There's a difference in saying what she said to her husband in private, and saying it to a national audience. Let me say this again - a NATIONAL AUDIENCE. It's called being respectful. (For example, your child receives a gift they didn't like - if they say they hate it because they were being HONEST, does it make them less rude? Having the Train day taliored specifically for them is a gift. I have been to a day out with Thomas 3 years in a row, and it has always been literally packed with people. For them to have a whole car to themselves is unheard of. The 2nd year my daughter had to sit on my lap so we could all fit.) And I think the production company was equally wrong to air the comments. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

But what about the argument that these people NEVER wanted money until they found out they could have it...Don't you think it's possible that she didn't want Jodi as a nanny, she wanted her has a sister in law?
----------------------------------
But Jodi never took money even when it was offered to her so I don't really understand your point? And she was using Jodi as a free nanny all along, so I don't understand your comment about wanting her to be just her sister in law? Because at anytime, Kate could have decided that she wanted a SIL vs a babysitter, and hired or got a volunteer to do what Jodi was doing before the contract issue came up.

And as far as their history of being mad at family members, I don't see too many others on Kate's side of the family being friendly with one another.
---------------------------------
I'll ask again if you personally know the family or Jodi or Julie. Because if you do, then you have way more information and background then I do, and I wouldn't be challenging you so much on the opinions you have of people. And if you don't know them, then how would you know what their family dymanics are like?


that does not mean she is incapable of being angry and bitter. EVERYONE gets angry. EVERYONE. It's OK to feel angry. It's Ok for Jodi to be angry. Would Jodi be human if she wasn't angry, at least on some level, at what is happening? And yes, she IS bitter. I don't care what you say.
--------------------------------
Actually, what I am saying is that you don't personally know Jodi and therefore have no clue what she is feeling. Just because you have decided she should act the way you THINK she should, doesn't make it true. You can't make a statement of fact based on what little you say of her on TV. I'm not saying that it's not in the relm of possibility that she is not bitter. What I am saying, as you pointed out, is that there is 3 hours of Jodi on tape vs. hours and hours of Jon and Kate's behaviour. That 3 hours is not enough time to form an opinion. So you can not care what I think, because you are wrong to state for a fact that Jodi is bitter.


Guess what? In show business, this happens all the time. To the entertainment world, a squabble over money is not breaking news (unless, of course, there are lawsuits involved). If a reputable magazine
---------------
You need to look at the bigger picture - magazines based their stories on what going to sell the magazines. Jon and Kate is a popular show - and Jodi has a lot of inside information. The disagreement between Jodi and Kate is not a big issue, but the secrets of the Jon and Kate show with Jodi's story thrown in? Add to that to criticism about how the show is damaging to the kids? Come on, there would be alot of interest in that. Look at how popular all these blogs are - if no one was interested in what the people stating the "truth" (their words, not mine)there wouldn't be so many or so popular.

You're right, actions do speak louder than words and Jodi and Julie's actions leave much to be desired.
--------------------------------
I've given my reasons for believing Julie and Jodi side of the story, and you are on Kate's side. Though to be honest, to me it seems as if you are more against Jodi and Julie than pro Kate. We are at an impass, because there is no way we will sway each other. While I can't say that I won't refute anything you find in error in my post (in your opinion) I can tell you I will no longer be going to the various blogs to support my position. I've told you what I believe and why I believe it and feel as if we are both beating a dead horse so this topic is pretty done for me.

nomoredrama said...

ok, I agree that if we continue I think we're both just going to get ticked off. Please dont' assume you know what my family members are like. I don't bring my family up because, IMO, they are irrelevant to this particular discussion.

As for as a misunderstanding over the timeline. There is no misunderstanding. You are assuming that when Kate "fired" Jodi, in your words, she also immediately cut her out of her life. Which is simply not true. JULIE SAYS SO IN HER BLOG. The "firing" (I don't agree with that term, but whatever, we'll go with it) was one thing. The breakdown in communication came several months after the firing and could POSSIBLY be a result of the blogs. Of course the blogs had nothing to do with the firing. I NEVER said they did. I said they could be the reason that Kate cut Jodi out of her life (Her REAL life, not the show). 2 totally separate things.

I feel like I'm banging my head up against a brick wall.

Jodi WOULD have taken money had Kate allowed it. She only refused money after the fall out had happened. They term this money as "hush money." Of course she didn't take it then. It was too little, too late at that point.

As far as the whole "you don't personally know Jodi." I don't need to know Jodi. As you said, actions speak louder than words. My thinking she is angry and bitter has nothing to do with what I saw of her on TV. It has everything to do with what she is doing now. In front of the blogosphere which I am a part of.

I agree, we are at an impasse.I could have responded to all of your comments but I just don't see how it would be helpful. Like you said, neither of us will be swayed. What will happen is we will get more and more frustrated and lose our patience. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss these issues with you but, as you said, we are beating a dead horse.

Anonymous said...

Okay, I have to say something. Kate was right to get angry about the gum. What kind of adult--especially one with 4 kids of her own--gives a 3-year-old gum...a 3-year-old that's not her own child...then actually expects those children to "bring the gum to [her]" when they were done with it? How ridiculous. OF COURSE the children were going to tell her they were allowed to have gum--they're three! OF COURSE the gum was going to get all over them--they're three! I got gum in my hair at the age of SEVEN, and I was not a particularly messy or careless child. If a family member of mine were watching my kids, gave them gum, and then sent them home for me to clean up the mess, you're darn right I'd be angry. And as far as Kate yelling at her on TV, it's conceivable that in the heat of the moment she forgets about the cameras. It's not as if she always tries to be on her best behavior in front of them...lol.

Anonymous said...

I believe the point has been made that even though Kate stated the kids can't have gum, other episodes have shown either Jon or Kate giving them gum.

Guinevere said...

For the plane ride, or other times? I think of the plane ride as a special circumstance, since the gum is supposed to help their ears from clogging up.

If Kate gave them gum in other circumstances, I'm surprised - considering she won't even let them use markers! Maybe she was watching them more closely with the gum, I don't know.

I don't think Kate's reaction to the gum was particularly appropriate, but I don't think it was unforgively monstrous. She lost her cool. It happens. Hopefully, she apologized, both to her son re the bear, and to Jodi re her comments on tv. But I also wouldn't blame her for asking Jodi not to give them gum again.

Anonymous said...

No more drama -

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss these issue with you as well! (Certainly a change of pace from my normal disagreements currently happening with people under the age of 6).

Maybe we can do this again, though I am finding it very hard keeping up with all that people say/blog. Because of my personal situation, this topic really touched a nerve with me.

Anonymous said...

I am not an expert of the show by any means, but I believe Jon gave one of the kids gum on the ski slope when they were in Utah.

Anonymous said...

Other inconsistencies include saying the kids don't what any TV other than K&J and LPBW - in the Labor day marathon one of the episodes have them watching cartoons in their bedroom.

And this I am just repeating someone else pointed out - Kate has stated the kids have never had McDonald's and don't even know what MCD's is, and supposely there's a scene on the show that shows a MCD cup next to the kids bed.

Anonymous said...

Just to clarify - I enjoyed the adult conversation. As I reread my comment, it sort of sounded to me as I was saying you were 6 years old.

nomoredrama said...

I am kind of annoyed with the "they said they don't watch tv, only lpbw." Kate made that statement when the kids were a very young 3. They may have even been 2. You could make that statement and 2 days later have it be false. Why? Because kids' taste in TV shows change over time. Maybe the parents began adding in more shows because the kids were getting old enough to be able to sustain attention. It's not an inconsistency if you are talking about children. I know parents that swore up and down they'd never by a cell phone for their child in elementary school and then one year later, the kid has a phone and is adept at texting. Were the parents liars? No, the parents exercised their rights as a parent and changed their mind.

Anonymous said...

I agree, anonymous, it was pretty stupid to give 6 three year olds gum.