Wednesday, September 3, 2008

OPEN DISCUSSION



How do you feel about this new blog called In Support of the Truth? This is a discussion so be prepared to have your opinions questioned.

223 comments:

1 – 200 of 223   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

I wonder if this "Truth" is just a work of fiction.

Nina Bell said...

I will start. I think it is poorly written, rambling and info that was already out there and people already knew. Nothing earth shattering. Someone who wants to jump on the bandwagon of "They stuck it to me so now it is my turn to stick it to them."

I think Linda wrote an article several weeks ago titled Mob Mentality. This certainly falls into that category. I could be wrong, but I didn't see where she was even professing that she was doing it to save the children.

MCB said...

Ehhh. I only got about halfway through her first rant and got bored. It's the same stuff we've already read at GWoP. Piling on, anyone?

Linda said...

I also find myself irked when people congratulate all these anonymous posters for their courage and bravery in "coming forward" and "speaking out." Ughh. The cyber glad-handing that goes on is just maddening.

We have this again. Another anonymous person who is blogging supposed inside information about the Gs.

Years ago, I used to work with sexual assault and rape victims. Crime victims come forward. Crime victims speak out. THEY demonstrate courage and bravery when they finally tell. Not these people.

The anonymous insiders (and by the way, Julie still has not officially given her name) have simply mastered high tech gossip mongering.

nomoredrama said...

This blog, for some reason, sent me into a deep ponder. Forgive me as I ramble.

I have someone extremely close to me who is the way that this woman describes Kate (if anything the blogger says about Kate is true). She (my close friend) goes as far as to demand what gifts I buy for her and her children. She only used certain baby products. For example, bottles had to be Evenflo. Pacifiers? Nam. Everything from big things to minute details she tries to control or demand. And if you dare to buy a dollar store bottle? It gets returned or donated to Goodwill.

She pisses a lot of people off but there are very deep seeded reasons why she does what she does. Love for her has been tainted by abuse and control.

I guess this kind of reminded me of Kate. I'm the first to criticize stories like this because Kate is not the person I am close to. I don't know Kate. I just wonder (and this is the therapist in me) if Kate, like the person I know, uses material things to quench a hunger that she has deep down to be taken care of. I wonder if the anxiety of "what might be if" keeps her awake at night. I wonder if that (alleged) sense of entitlement is a smoke screen for a deeper sense of failure and inadequacy. Perhaps a fear that nothing she does will ever be enough....

I know that underneath my friend's bitchiness and control is a loving individual. I guess I think the same about Kate.

I am in no way a believer that she is perfect, above reproach, mom of the year. I just think that there is more to Kate that these bloggers CAN show (because they are hurt by her). I'm sure she's done some pretty "rank" things in her day, but I don't think that justifies the campaign of hatred. Instead of people who love her blogging about her, why not reach out to her? Why not try to love her in spite of her faults? If that is too hard (or, as some say, she does not allow that to happen) then love her from a distance.

I wish the pain would stop for all of the people involved but life does not work that way (or I'd be out of a job).

Daisy said...

I don't know whether this blog is true or not, but I have seen others say that they were involved with the Gosselin's and it was proven that they weren't. That person wouldn't say who he/she was either.

One thing I thought of while I was reading the blog was that it was stated that either Jon or Kate turned down clothes because they were from Walmart. In either the 2nd special or one of the first episodes they were shopping at Sam's Club. I find it odd that they would shop there but turn down clothes from there.

I noticed that there was not much new material. Just the same old, same old, except for the blogger eating the "yoghurt" that Jon supposedly ate. I just can't believe that someone would get fired from volunteering for a small amount of food missing from a refrigerator.

This is just my opinion and not meant to start an argument.

nomoredrama said...

Actually Daisy, you are probably right..my "critical" mind went to bed a long time ago. I should be sleeping not blogging.

And what is up with my hormones...am I pregnant? Oh no, wait, thats just the latest Gosselin rumor.

axiom said...

i agree that alot of what is said in this new tell-all blog is information that has already been spread before.

what did stick out to me was the recounting of how this lady had had enough - you know, the yoghurt debacle that wasnt really yoghurt but another cheap grocery item......

i just keep thinking: where are the good stories about this couple. on that note, i appreciate this site because it tries to focus on the good and keep it balanced.

like i said before, when so many insiders keep coming forward with similar stories, it really does make you wonder whats up with these people? just seems like soooo many alienated people. is that normal? i dont know.

its gotten to point where i feel really really bad for the kids. they are targets of cyberstalkers that hate their parents, locals that feel their parents are a bunch of ungrateful mooches.....i saw the labor day episode today. its really time to end the show. all this gossip and shittalking has got to be getting to the parents. can the show and focus on each other, at the end of the day, thats what theyve got.

talk about things spinning out of control. even if they tried, they cant get into anyone's good graces at this point.....

Daisy said...

LOL nomoredrama. I wasn't thinking of you when I put the opinion statement in my post. I was thinking of future Anon posts.

I enjoy reading your posts and respect your opinions.

axiom said...

i do have to laugh about the pregnancy rumor

for personal reasons - i mentioned before i have a baby. everyone thought i was still fat from that pregnancy, she's 8 months old. i was pregnant! hahaha.. everyone, including us, were shocked at how soon it happened. im five months pregnant and ive gotton so many fat comments lately.......i just laugh, because it always something with speculators....

Tyra said...

I appreciated your thoughtful pondering, nomoredrama, and I'm grateful for a chance to discuss something like this in a thoughtful place, so thank you.

I read the blog and my main reaction was 'So what?' Whether it's a 'real' person or not doesn't really matter as far as I'm concerned. Somebody doesn't like Kate-nothing new. It's somebody's opinion on another person. I'm a little biased in favor of prickly, bitchy women, because a couple of my friends might... fall into that category, and there might just be people in the world who can't stand them, but they're my friends and I love them. So Kate offended this woman with her attitude; so what?

If Kate has done every single egotistical, grasping, greedy thing that's been described on the net, so what? Why is it being collected as evidence to justify all kinds of retaliatory action? The latest: emailing Hershey Med Center to complain about the visit to the NICU, and contacting Ronald McDonald House to find out how much Kate's donation was. What the hell does any of that have to do with child advocacy?

This anecdotal account of someone who had a bad experience with Kate and doesn't like her will be added to the pile of stuff they've collected over there, and it will be hailed as more 'proof' that 'Something needs to be done for the children!!!' It's a hopeless mishmash of stuff that is 98% mean-spirited, gossipy, coffee klatsching busy work that has nothing to do with the Gosselin kids at all, and everything to do with Kate Gosselin.

jenni said...

I realized from reading it that I, as a resident of a state very far from PA, could start a blog entitled something about "truth", and make up lots of stories that parallel other stories that I've read about interactions with Kate Gosselin. Or Jon. This could work because, like mature adults, they choose not to publicly acknowledge the mass amounts of crap that is thrown their way. So I could potentially get away with alot of false stories as they would never challenge me. And I'd get to jump on the "gwop approves of me" bandwagon. Sounds fun, right?

That thought is literally all I could focus on while I was reading. Who knows if it any of the blog is true? Actually, if it wasn't harmful in ANY way to the kids, I might start a "truth" blog just to mess w/ GWOP, get them all on board and saying how great and courageous I am, and then bust them. Maybe that's was PennMom is doing...now there is a thought!

7strangers said...

i agree that alot of what is said in this new tell-all blog is information that has already been spread before

except about the yogurt, and it's sad to say, strictly from what i have seen, it's not a stretch that Kate is capable of that level of freak out.

just keep thinking: where are the good stories about this couple. on that note, i appreciate this site because it tries to focus on the good and keep it balanced.

like i said before, when so many insiders keep coming forward with similar stories, it really does make you wonder whats up with these people? just seems like soooo many alienated people. is that normal? i dont know.


i don't have the greatest of relationships with my dad. i can understand estrangement. not everyone has great parents. but my mom was my best friend. so the first puzzling moment was something funky with both sets of grandparents? no mention of siblings (jon's case). the list goes on. i guess the math major in me just kept on asking what is the common denominator - jon and kate. what is it about them?

maybe we'll never know. i like the show. but sometimes i have to remind myself that this is not some soap opera where the plot has already been resolved.

katie said...

I don't know, sometimes (http://growingyourbaby.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/jon-kate.jpg) Kate wears things that make her look a little pudgy/pregnant. The Labor Day episode was mindboggling with the way she looked/acted and what Jon said. All speculation, of course. :) Don't really care if she is or not, as long as she shows a new baby love and affection, you know?

This new blog doesn't jump all over JK the way others have. There are positive aspects to the Gosselins in those posts. I honestly believe that since the sextuplets are starting school, it's time to end the show. I'm not a "hater," but you can see the strain it's having on the WHOLE family, parents included. Whatever, the internet is a cruel beast - there will always be stalkers who both love and hate this show. It's the nature of it. I think the kids should be taken out of the spotlight before something bad happens, imo.

Anonymous said...

I agree completely about Kate's actions being a smokescreen for an extremely anxious person. I really, really believe that. She is constantly getting on to Jon because he wasn't there to protect her, or she needed him. I think she does lie awake at night and worry "what if" and that is part of her motivation for all of this, regardless of the cost to her family.

I have to say, the "yoghurt" part is what made me suspicious, of all things. You don't typically see "yogurt" spelled that way in the US. When I saw that word spelled that way, unless she meant it as a pun for her pain from the experience, my first thought was: this person isn't even from the US. They are making it up. Maybe not, but that's what I thought.

And yes, I think I could be a very happy woman if I never saw another "Oh you're so brave" comment. As a previous noter stated, there are many, many other things that are actually brave - not an anonymous blog about someone we don't even know.

Linda said...

I thought that you guys would find this interesting. From this new blog:
---------------------------
fiona said...
Negrl,

I understand what you are saying and I agree. The site you are refering to, I think, has lots some ground. I think it has gone over the top with very bitter and hateful posts.

It used to have much more integrity and I seriously hope they begin to reign in some of the comments.

September 3, 2008 1:14 PM

-------------------

Interesting that now even FIONA is beginning to have concerns about the comments on GwoP.

nomoredrama said...

Linda,
I saw that too. Definitely interesting. But, good for her. It gives me faith that people over there will eventually see if looking close enough.

Linda said...

And I'm sure we will have a "yoghurt-gate" soon despite the fact that the writer has acknowledged that she couldn't remember what the actual food item was in the first place.

This story will be repeated over and over and over again. Soon it will take on a life of it's own. It will be added to and will eventually evolve into how K herself and possibly even Donald Trump came over to the volunteer's home to deliver the admonishment,

"Don't you dare ever open my fridge again! YOU'RE FIRED."

Then it will have been "reported."

amy said...

each and every time i see a friend/family member out to speak the "truth", i keep asking myself "WHY?"...

for what purpose is this person retaliating for? (if this person is even real is, of course, my first question).

what i read on that blog is nothing new, just regurgitated malarky! *sigh*

i, too, was curious about the "yoghurt"...who spells it like that??? LOL

and it's just way TOO HARD for me to wrap my mind around kate acting like that! yea, kate can be a little over-the-top, but i'm just not believing that story at this time :) JMO...

Anonymous said...

I just hope someone tells her its spelled y-o-g-u-r-t. Other than that, she is just a pot stirrer. Nothing more.

Baby Mama said...

I read it today and only the first page. It had nothing to do with the show, only the people that commented about her. blog, which was confusing. There were actually quite a few negative ones. She wrote about how "more than one" came from the same address. First of all, how is she actually monitoring this and why. And most importantly why a whole page about it? It just turned me off and I have no desire to read ramblings about yogurt. How do we know if any of this stuff is true?

axiom said...

from wikipedia:

"In English, there are several variations of the spelling of the word. In the United States, yogurt is the usual spelling and yoghurt a minor variant. In the United Kingdom, yoghurt and yogurt are both current, yoghurt being more common, and yoghourt is an uncommon alternative.[21] Canada uses mostly yogurt and yogourt, the latter being particularly common in bilingual packaging, as it is also the spelling in Canadian French; in Australia and New Zealand yoghurt prevails"
_____________________________

She did spell it correctly. Perhaps it is a regional or cultural thing.

while we agree so far that there are only a couple new tidbits that oust Kate specifically as being difficult she has also defended the gossselins on certain allegations that have been circulating.

why are certain "insiders" coming out? who knows,maybe the motivations they state are true. maybe not.

the minor consideration website has made another statement on their website welcome regarding the show.

i know, there are still people out there that dont want to hear or read that the gosselins are capable of the things being said by family and friends (and i dont count gwop in that grouping). it sucks, and in normal circumstances, that is the incorrect forum to air feelings. but this isnt a normal circumstance and the parents have put themselves and their children out there for the world to see and worse and unfortunately, to judge.

its really sad.

MCB said...

Jon or Kate turned down clothes because they were from Walmart.

Hmmm. Is this a big deal? I have a at least five friends who refuse to shop at WalMart because of a documentary they saw on HBO about their business practices. Another friend had a baby last year and flat out told everyone that she would not accept gifts purchased at WalMart because she is boycotting them (same reason. She feels their business practices are unethical). I try not to buy clothing at WalMart because it's cheaply sewn and doesn't last (and made in China). Plenty of people have a "thing" about WalMart. Doesn't make Kate an oddity, there.

Jenn said...

I saw the new post on minor consideration. I agree that their should be laws that make sure entertainment businesses don't exploit kids. What I didn't see was him cliaming J&K are horrible people who abuse their kids, like some other sites claim.

Linda said...

What I have always said anonymous is that I think that the question of the G kids having some protections regarding their participation in this show is an interesting one.

I respect how PP is going about this. He is drawing attention to the matter and is not calling the parents names or saying nasty things about the kids.

This is advocacy. This is raising awareness. What GwoP does is shameful.

anya said...

Tyra said..."It's a hopeless mishmash of stuff that is 98% mean-spirited, gossipy, coffee klatsching busy work that has nothing to do with the Gosselin kids at all, and everything to do with Kate Gosselin."

Tyra, I was going to write something similar, but you said it perfectly.

lulu said...

The thing I find MOST interesting about these *truth* blogs is that I haven't found a one that's come forward in complete defense of J&K. (if there is one, please point me to it). I don't mean a "we love J&K+8 forum" but a blog of some sort written by someone who is friends/family with J and/or K and who knows them. Where are those people?

Julie came to the defense of Jodi b/c she felt like she was being mistreated. Where the heck are Kate's sisters to defend her? Surely, if they felt Kate was deserving of being defended they (someone?) would come to her defense, even in a minor way (appearing on the show by visiting the family or even having their own *tell all* site).

And if you are to say that you think her/their friends/family are too classy to go about airing *dirty laundry* by doing something like that, I don't buy it. Especially b/c it wouldn't be DIRTY laundry. It would be CLEAN, so to speak. It would be happy memories, good experiences.

You can bet that if somehow I was in Kate's "shoes"(I wouldn't put myself there for any amount of money, let me make that clear) and in the national spotlight being torn apart by "lies", that my sister/family and my friends, would come forward to set the record straight.

Where are her/their friends???

Guinevere said...

i know, there are still people out there that dont want to hear or read that the gosselins are capable of the things being said by family and friends (and i dont count gwop in that grouping). it sucks, and in normal circumstances, that is the incorrect forum to air feelings. but this isnt a normal circumstance and the parents have put themselves and their children out there for the world to see and worse and unfortunately, to judge.

It's not that I think they aren't capable of some of the things said about them. Some of the stories I read have the germ of a ring of truth (to mix a metaphor) to them, from what I know of Kate's personality. But:

1) I think the stories are often exaggerated or twisted.

2) I think some of them are false, made up by people wanting to join the pile-on. The similarity in stories could be seen as evidence that they are the "truth", but they can also be taken as evidence that some people are good at making up stories and mimicking what they've read or heard. I have some doubts about the blog. Penn Mom might be who she says she is or she might not. But when I thought about how to write a convincing lie, little details like "Thomas Gosselin was my dentist" stick out. Sure, it could be taken as a sign that her story is true. But a lot of people know that Jon's dad was a dentist, and isn't that the sort of detail one might put in to bolster their credibility? Maybe I'm paranoid, but I'm also aware that there are "haters" out there who are pretty devious and seem to have ENDLESS amounts of time on their hands for this kind of thing.

3) I think that even if the stories are true, so what? I don't think most people here would deny that Kate has bitchy qualities. There is no larger "truth" that needs to be exposed, and the haters' claim that there is makes me a little nuts. They seem to think that we just don't GET the Gosselins' less than sterling qualities, when in fact we get them and we DON'T CARE THAT MUCH. We (and by we, I mean me and anyone who thinks like me; not trying to speak for everyone) acknowledge that Jon and Kate are flawed, pretty much like them anyway, like the show and think that the attempts to ruin the Gosselins are inappropriate.

The weird thing about that blog is that it seemed like 95% of it was "Kate Gosselin is a bitch" and then there was the 5% at the end: "Oh, and the show is harmful to the kids and should end". That was funny to me because I really think that is at the crux of how these women think. I think if you took 100 of them, 99 would be women who watched and enjoyed the show, until they decided that Kate just wasn't likable, and then suddenly they discovered a conscience and realized how harmful and exploitative the show is. That's why so much of the negativity around the show centers on issues that have nothing to do with "advocacy" for the Gosselin children.

anya said...

NoMoreDrama, everything you said in your post really resonates with me.

Of course, none of us here know Kate. And I take this blog with a huge grain of salt. But, hey, what if it is true? And of course, it is only this one woman's version of her truth. (Rant: I have had it up to here with Gosselin blogs that plaster the word "truth" over everything, including going to Quote.com to find lots of quotes about the truth. Bleech). I have seen Kate on t.v. I think I *get* what some of her issues are. And you know what, even if she acts like a jackass sometimes, I think she is a decent human being who loves her kids more than life itself. A lot of the "bad" Kate behavior we see does appear to come from anxiety and insecurity. And that's not a medical diagnosis. Just one viewer's opinion.

I admire the way you have a clear view of your friend's faults, but still choose to be in her life. That is what a true friend is.

In the spirit of compassion and understanding, I really would like to try to work on my intense dislike of Bitter Julie. I know she hasn't done anything to me. Her motivations probably started out better than they have ended up. I would like to have empathy for her, but I just can't get past the hateful frenzy she is currently participating in. This will have to be a work in progress for me, I guess!

Anonymous said...

I do think the writer is being brave to a certain extent. By brave, I mean subjecting herself to the inevitable comments that she will receive from Kate defenders. Those people can be downright vicious in their comments. Is she as brave as a crime or rape victim coming forward? Of course not. I think that you can use the word "brave" and mean it many different ways.

On the flip side, I think that if you are going to come out and blog about former friends or family members, you should have the guts to say who you are.

Anonymous said...

First of all, how is she actually monitoring this and why.

Anyone with a sitemeter on a blog can do this.

Tyra said...

Quote:
The weird thing about that blog is that it seemed like 95% of it was "Kate Gosselin is a bitch" and then there was the 5% at the end: "Oh, and the show is harmful to the kids and should end". That was funny to me because I really think that is at the crux of how these women think. I think if you took 100 of them, 99 would be women who watched and enjoyed the show, until they decided that Kate just wasn't likable, and then suddenly they discovered a conscience and realized how harmful and exploitative the show is. That's why so much of the negativity around the show centers on issues that have nothing to do with "advocacy" for the Gosselin children.

I agree. I watched the 'movement' develop on TWoP, and the GWoP mods state that's where they got together. GWoP is very reminiscent of that board. It was kind of a locomotive, just roaring down the track, picking up all kinds of stuff, big and small, to contribute to a negative portrait of Kate Gosselin. Remember potty-gate? It whipped up a frenzy of condemnation based on completely false and misunderstood 'evidence' on the commercial for one of the episodes. The specific charge that Kate potty-trained the boys in the front driveway of their house (absolutely false!) was taken off of the laundry list of Kate's evil deeds, but the negative energy it created remained to add energy to that community of like-minded posters.

Everything negative about Kate gets labeled as 'proof' and 'truth', then there's some illogical train of thought being followed in concluding that this 'proof' supports the idea that the children are being harmed by the show. If GWoP really wants to do good, and really wants to advocate for children, they'd better clean up their act. Clear out the illogical logic, and only present things that logical people can accept as possible real concerns about children being on reality shows. It's a legitimate question, and GWoP actually impedes anyone taking it seriously. Clear out the gossipy busybodies who are enjoying trashing another woman. It's gossip without the real life consequences, real life consequences like decent people shutting you down when you start talking trash about people, and asking questions that are none of your business. It's tacky, and it gives women as a whole a bad name, damnitall!

Mom said...

I spent some time reading it all yesterday. Non of it was "new" in my opinion. I don't care who it was. I don't care about what was in the fridge.

I will add my two cents on the non-acceptance of clothing (used and new). I have one baby and was given both new and hand-me-downs. Some I kept, some I did not. Some of the brand-new-with-tags actually "bled" ink on my hands when I touched it. And, although I was very grateful for any gift, I did feel weird about hand-me-downs - even the ones that looked brand new. I don't have the same feeling now, but maybe that's because my little one is older and I'm not so protective of him.

Isn't there a possibility that K felt that same way? Especially since she's a self-proclaimed germaphobe - just a thought. I also did not want a used crib or carseat. For me it was just that I wanted some items new for safety and warranty issues. I buy used stuff all the time now - especially the expensive Little Tikes things.

I could also in a way relate to the nursery decorating thing too. Some of those "makeovers" aren't necessarily improvements either. And, considering there is not an abundance of decorative items in their current home, it was probably something that was over-the-top and maybe not as nice as it could have been. I keep thinking about that couple years ago on Trading Spaces who literally hated their makeover and cried at the reveal (I thought it was hideous, too).

My prediction is that more of these anonymous "truth" blogs and sites will begin to surface over the next month or so. And, now that Paul Peterson has posted another bit on his website, I think there will be more people offering their input.

Perhaps I will do an "about face" when Beth and Carla make some public statement about it all or a reputable news anchorperson covers the entire story with real faces and names.

I think we will be hearing more about Beth now with the book as I'm sure there will be a tour and more pr.

Sorry to ramble.

Guinevere said...

I will add my two cents on the non-acceptance of clothing (used and new). I have one baby and was given both new and hand-me-downs. Some I kept, some I did not. Some of the brand-new-with-tags actually "bled" ink on my hands when I touched it. And, although I was very grateful for any gift, I did feel weird about hand-me-downs - even the ones that looked brand new. I don't have the same feeling now, but maybe that's because my little one is older and I'm not so protective of him.

Isn't there a possibility that K felt that same way? Especially since she's a self-proclaimed germaphobe - just a thought. I also did not want a used crib or carseat. For me it was just that I wanted some items new for safety and warranty issues. I buy used stuff all the time now - especially the expensive Little Tikes things.


Yeah, I'm a little germaphobic too, so I don't blame Kate on that one. Also, from the way it was described in the blog, Kate was getting offered better quality items of the same type. It seems to me that if she turned down extras that she didn't need and wouldn't use, even if it was because they were from Walmart, she did a good thing. That way, they went to someone else who could use them. Would it have been better for her to have taken them and then chucked them in the trash? It doesn't sound like she insulted the actual donor, so I don't really see what the problem is.

I get that Kate does not seem sufficiently grateful at times. I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, of course, people who seem to feel entitled are annoying. The thing about receiving charity is that it does limit your options; you might not get to pick out the carpet you want, for instance. OTOH, I feel that some of these people think that J&K should be on their knees 24/7 humbly expressing their gratitude for all they've been given. When they do express gratitude, it's deemed to be phony or too late or not enough by the haters.

Ideally, generosity should be offered without the expectation or hope of anything in return, even a thank you. In real life, it might not really work that way, but if J&K are tacky for not being sufficiently grateful, I also don't think the "look at all we've done for you and this is how you treat us?" breast-beaters are exactly covering themselves with glory, either.

When I see someone like the blog writer talk about people "going without" to give to the Gosselins, I kind of have to shake my head. It reminds me of the woman who wrote the blog entry over at GWoP a month or two ago, about how she was buying presents for the Gosselin children and not her own grandkids, and suddenly she had some revelation about the weirdness of her own behavior. I would not have expected any family acquaintance of the Gosselins', for instance, to go hungry in order to contribute to J&K. I really think if people have done or are doing those types of things, it's not on J&K, it's on the person themselves. It's unhealthy behavior, and the person should look at themselves and their motivations rather than complaining about J&K's lack of gratitude.

Jenn said...

On Julie's blog, the last 2 posts are of what Paul Peterson has had to say about this whole mess. I don't get why his site is relavent to what she claims was her reason for starting that blog in the first place. Paul Peterson is not saying anything about Aunt Jodi on there.

IMO, now that Jodi has spoken to say her blog is true, and Jodi is supposedly cut out from the Gosselins lives so she can't give any new info on what is going on, Julie has nothing else left to talk about.

Mom said...

Guin - are we distant relatives?? Ha ha. We tend to think along the same lines. ;-)

Jenn - I couldn't agree with you more. First, it was all about sticking up for her sister and now it's turning into something else. She is also posting on the other site about stuff that has nothhing to do with Aunt J. Go figure.

Anonymous said...

talk about things spinning out of control. even if they tried, they cant get into anyone's good graces at this point.....

September 3, 2008 10:14 PM

You know what, I think they could. It would be hard. I think the first step would to in telling the real story. Weather it was fear or greed, or both that motivated them.

How the kids are being affected, their marriage etc...and then end it.

Drama, I actually agree with some of your last post. I do think deep down Kate has real feelings just like the rest of us (I hope). I think she loves her kids, Jon. I think she is sad about the estrangement in her family. She is either to proud, stubborn or sick to make the first move.

All I know for sure, is this is a sad family in a sad situation.

Mom said...

Nina, is there a link to Linda's article? I'd like to read it. Thanks!

katie said...

IMO, the first thing I thought when reading the truth blog was it could be written by someone that lives in the same town or goes to the church J&K belonged to when the babies were born. Gossip goes a long way in small towns when there is a "celebrity" in town. Maybe Kate did freak out about something going missing in the fridge. They were trying to feed a family of 10, with not much income and people coming and going in their house all day long. I would freak out too.
Every other piece of information in the new "truth" blog is from either the other blogs or we all watched on TV at the same time.
Whoever is writing this blog, they are very articulate. I seems to me it is someone just out to stir the pot.

FIONA said...

I thought that you guys would find this interesting. From this new blog:
---------------------------
fiona said...
Negrl,

I understand what you are saying and I agree. The site you are refering to, I think, has lots some ground. I think it has gone over the top with very bitter and hateful posts.

It used to have much more integrity and I seriously hope they begin to reign in some of the comments.

September 3, 2008 1:14 PM

-------------------

Interesting that now even FIONA is beginning to have concerns about the comments on GwoP.

September 4, 2008 4:34 AM

Linda, are you the same one who posted hateful comments to me?

I am not looking for approval BTW, just stating my opinion. All in all I think GWoP has been good.

But I can say the same for this site too. There is just as much pettiness and meaness here.

NOMOREDRAMA, I have noticed your comments have changed too. Not that you are looking for approval either, I think it is a good thing. There is too much meaness and disecting of this family, here and on GWoP.

What I am feeling is sorrow for this family. I think the blogs do have some power and I think that is good. They also bring out the worst in people as well as the best.

When I think about all that has been written about the family, that would be more than enough motivation for most people to stop the show for the sake of the kids.

There is something unique about Kate...illness, insecurty, bitterness. It isn't good. And Jon, well if he were my husband, I would hope that he would love me enough to help me.

Fanny said...

Here's my problem with that sort of blog. I can understand that many people (myself included), think that the show could be hard on the kids. I get that. What I don't get is the constant discussion about what kind of people they are. Does it matter? If they were the nicest, most humble people on earth, would that make the show ok? I tend to doubt that if there were only nice things to be said about this family there would any stink about what it could do to the kids.

Some of the "hate blogs" I've read tend to go on and on about how Kate is a bitch and she and jon are lazy and ungrateful, blah, blah, blah, and then somewhere near the end one little bit about how the show is "bad for the kids".

I guess leaving that little tidbit out makes one look like they have started a blog for the sole purpose of snarking on a reality tv family. No nobility there, huh?


If you truly are concerned about the welfare of these children, contact TLC, figure 8, and the sponsors. That is really the only thing YOU can do to put an end to this show. The rest is, imo, just childish and unnessecary.

Of course we all have opinions, but it really isn't anyone's place to tell these people how to parent their children. And if they were rude to you or unappreciative of something you've done for them, just walk away. In the end, you will come out looking like the bigger person.

I guess I just dont' get what's in it for these people other than fueling the hate of this family. Telling a one sided story, imo, is not brave or noble, especially if you do so under a blanket of anonymity. This person should go to Kate and tell her all of these things to her face. Tell her that they've been hurt by her words and actions, then they can be proud of themselves for doing something brave.


Sorry for being windy, guys. I just don't understand......

iliveinthegray said...

How do I feel about the blog? I'm going to be honest. I don't care anymore. I think this stuff has snowballed into something much bigger than any of them or any of us and in the end everybody loses. Whether its the kids, Jon and Kate, their families/friends, us, them, etc. In the end, no matter what side anyone is, it's not about the kids anymore. It's about picking sides and being angry. I think the show should go off the air, the sites should die down and everyone should just live life the best they can.

Utopic I know. But one can dream, right?

Tyra said...

Quote:
Telling a one sided story, imo, is not brave or noble, especially if you do so under a blanket of anonymity. This person should go to Kate and tell her all of these things to her face. Tell her that they've been hurt by her words and actions, then they can be proud of themselves for doing something brave.

Exactly! Well said.

There is just as much pettiness and meaness here.

Not true. If people don't want their opinions criticized, they shouldn't put them on the net. The only way this blog will equal the other in meanness and pettiness is if one of the bloggers over there wants to send me her picture, so I can make fun of her wide ass and rooster hair, sends me her address so I can drive by her house and take pictures, sends me the name and address of her employers, her family members, places she's going to visit, so I can go down the list and harass and harangue all of those people. And the governor. And CPS. And along the way, I'll make up insulting nicknames for her, and compete with other posters for most insulting quip of the week. In amongst all of that, I'll loudly announce that I care about her kids and want to advocate for them.

Was that mean? I don't think so; it's just what I've seen, and it's what I disagree with.

Anonymous said...

I am so sick of all the bad stuff being put out there! Do you think that is good for the kids?? To have hate blogs about their parents everywhere! Hypocrites! And I love how the people over at GWoP really think the Gs messed up editing the show and let the secret slip that Kate is prego! A bunch of real detectives over there! Its too annoying to even read at this point! That site almost had me believing!

Linda said...

Fiona,

I believe that I have posted that I found the fact that you state that you care about the kids but that you post derogatory things about their parents, and their mental health to be hypocritical.

I notice now that even you acknowledge that GwoP has gotten out of hand.

I think that I saw it heading for a train wreck way before even you saw how demeaning those posts are to the kids and the parents.

GwoP is not an advocacy site. It is a gossip site that hides behind a fact viel of advocacy.

If there is anything else that I wrote that you would like to discuss I am open to that.

axiom said...

Guinevere:

in response to your earlier statement ( in response to mine):

I agree with #1, #2 and #3.

just want to keep it short...:)

it seems like its easy to be a hater because kate (and the editors of the show) have demonstrated a certain type of behavior. the more i see, the more obvious it is that the producers and post production have a heavy hand and are the ones really fueling the fires.


reading the comments here have helped answer alot of my questions and made it easy to not give into to the witchhunt mentality.

Anonymous said...

I'm waiting to see if Penn's Mom comes out with anything new, like what's the current story on Beth? If she does, then I think it's a safe bet to say she's legit.

Personally, I think the tide's already turning for the Gosselins and unless they do something to change the tone of the show, it won't be back for a 5th season. My friends, who don't read the blogs, are already fed up with the blatant product placements and all the free stuff they get. Remember how fast Star Jones got fired from the View because the audience was sick of hearing of all the free stuff she received from her wedding? I think it will be the same thing with J&K. (One of my friends, who has 5 kids, has already stopped watching the show because she can't stand to watch all the help she has and free stuff she receives.)

And unlike other people on the blogs, I do believe the truth blogs will play a part in their demise. I'm not an expert, but I think the most important factor TV executives look at are 'Q" ratings (basically rating celebrities on their popularity.) In six months from now, everyone will know about the blogs out there, read them, and the blogs affect how people feel about the Gosselins. That in turn will lower their Q rating and then Bye Bye Gosselins.

dotsicle said...

Anon 8:37, I enjoyed your post. I am one who is hoping there will not be a 5th season for the Gosselins. While it would be nice to see a yearly or twice-yearly special, I do think the filming schedule is too much for the kids. The studio lighting in their home, the cameras in their faces.... not conducive to a "normal" life. I think the product placement bothers me almost as much as the camera/lighting invasion of the kids' lives.

I'm not an activist, so rather than go all gonzo about writing congressmen and Paul Petersen and what all, I just leave that stuff up to those who wish to do it.

I found the blog by PennMommy interesting. I believe her. I think she is a member of Kate's dad's church, although I may be mistaken.

Daisy said...

I read the latest on Pennmommy's blog and she posted this:

"Does someone pay the twin's school fees? If so, who?
I won't answer stuff like this. I don't mind that you asked or think your question is unreasonable. I just don't want to expose things that may embarrass Cara and Maddy. I hope you understand. And, I don't think Beth is involved much any more. I was told they had a falling out over money."

Mady's name is misspelled. Someone as intimate as she says she is with the family would know that her name is spelled Mady. Especially someone that went to their church at the time the twins were born, or so she claims.

Anonymous said...

Some of you people wouldnt know the truth if it bit you in the ass.
Kate has no friends.
ANyone with eyes and common sense can see Kate for what she is, and its not anything good. She obviously cant stand her boys. Dont talk about editing. She could be much worse to them after the camera's are gone.
This show is disgusting and should be cancelled. Why people STILL like Kate is beyond me. And, no, I dont watch the show anymore. Her constant downtalking to her husband is nauseating.

Jenn said...

I like watching the show, even if I don't agree or like what I see. It's a choice I make to DVR it and watch when I get a chance.

That being said, I hope they don't do a 5th season just so people will stop harassing them! Enough is enough people. Sheesh. Okay, can you tell I have had enough? lol

Daisy, I know it may seem like if she's close to the family she should know how to spell Mady's name. My daughters name is Sidney and she's 7. To this day my dad still spells it Sydney on all of her birthday cards and letters. Not everyone is perfect.

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:50am

Wow, thanks for your insight. I think you mistake this site for somewhere else. Noboby here seems to be big Kate lovers. They seem more interested in having a dicussion and treating the subject you are discussin with some respect. Why are you so angry? I see many people that are fanatics ( and yes you are a fanatic in your own way) attacking other people's opinions. Your words speak more about yourself than anyone who frequents this site.

MCB said...

Some of you people wouldnt know the truth if it bit you in the ass.
Kate has no friends.
ANyone with eyes and common sense....blah, blah, blah, bittercakes


Quite the charmer, aren't you? And you wonder why "us people" don't drop everything and rush right over to your side or the argument.

As far as nauseating is concerned, your attitude is it. You remind me of Kate during Cucpcakegate! You could be twins!

Canadian Kate said...

I think the blog has the ring of truth and I tend to believe it. I'll be watching for future installments with interest.

I think the demise of the Gosselin Gravy Train Wreck will come if/when the legitimate popular media investigates. Let Kate win the Good Housekeeping award for mothering, and let some motivated reporter from another publication show a different side of the whole debacle.

MrsRef said...

For what it worth, this is my perspective on why former friends are speaking out. I used to work for an insurance investigator. Over 90% of our information regarding insurance fraud activity came from family members, neighbors and co-workers who got tired of going to work everyday while their friends/family sat back and took money from insurance companies for non-existent injuries. People just get fed up and vent. Also, a person is more likely to discuss a bad experience, like bad customer service, bad food served in a restaurant, etc. than a good experience. It is human nature. So while I agree that some of this truthful information has to be taken with a grain of salt, the motivation to disclose it may just be frustration and dismay.

Guinevere said...

I take anecdotal evidence of someone's friends not watching the show with a grain of salt. I still think some people vastly overestimate the percentage of J&K+8 viewers who are even aware of, or care about, the "controversy."

I also think it's unlikely that a credible journalist would find anything about the show worth reporting on in-depth. I think the National Enquirer is going to be about as good as the Gosselin haters are going to get.

Mrs. Ref, I understand your analogy BUT with insurance fraud you are talking about someone breaking the law. Whereas with J&K (particularly Kate), the people coming forward are just telling variations on what we already know or have at least heard about Kate - that's she's uptight, that she can be bitchy, that she tries to get freebies.

This is where I really part ways with the anti-Gosselin folks - again, they seem to think that there is some great "truth" that the rest of us just aren't seeing. Speaking for myself, that's just not the case. I see the same things that they do, I just don't always agree with their interpretations (to put it mildly). I don't think there is some vast portion of the American public who would be shocked by an expose of the Gosselins. I think that most people don't know or care that the Gosselin family even exists, and that the people who do know because they watch the show pretty much know what J&K are like. Because it's there, on the show. It's not like the show is some whitewashed representation of their personalities or their lives.

(I realize that I may sound like I'm contradicting myself above - I said that most viewers probably aren't aware of the "controversy", but that they are aware of what Kate is like. I see these as two separate things. When I first started watching the show and went online at TWoP to see what people were saying about it, I was a bit aware that the tenor of the thread over there was negative, just from stuff I'd heard and from knowing how posters at TWoP can get. But even I was surprised by the vociferousness, the pettiness - carping about hair-brushing in the kitchen!, and the level of investment of these posters. So I would guess that most viewers who don't follow online opinions - of which there are many - might have issues with J&K or the show but would be flabbergasted by how obsessive the anti-Gosselin crowd is. That's just my guess. I really do think most reasonable peoples' response to a television show they dislike is not to watch it.)

Linda said...

guinevere,

You hit the nail on the head with discussing coming forward regarding criminal activity. I wrote this up earlier but I think that it is a distinction that bears repeating

------------------

Years ago, I used to work with sexual assault and rape victims. Crime victims come forward. Crime victims speak out. THEY demonstrate courage and bravery when they finally tell.

anya said...

MrsRef said...
"So while I agree that some of this truthful information has to be taken with a grain of salt, the motivation to disclose it may just be frustration and dismay."


I understand what you are saying. I think I understand the motivation. I really do. There are probably some folks that still hold J&K on a pedestal (not me or most of the people on this board), but I am sure they exist. If you have had dealings with J&K in real life that have been unpleasant or contradict what you believe you heard them say on TV or in the press, I understand the inclination to want to present a different side. I just don't think the people who are doing this are giving in to their best nature, because I don't really see the "good" that can come out of this other than those coming forward might feel momentarily better for venting. In the case of Julie and Jodi, I think it's a really bad decision. Acquitances from church will come and go, but assuming marriages stay intact, Jodi and Kate will be sister-in-laws for life. I just think the revelations that Jodi has allowed to come out have cost her family a lot.


Guinevere said...
"I also think it's unlikely that a credible journalist would find anything about the show worth reporting on in-depth. I think the National Enquirer is going to be about as good as the Gosselin haters are going to get."


I agree. I am really trying to be objective, but even assuming that every last damaging assertion made about the Gosselins is true, what publication do you think would be interested in this story? "People" magazine? Maybe, but I think it's a stretch. It certainly won't be hitting "Time" or "The New Yorker" any time soon, I don't think.

Linda said...
guinevere,
"You hit the nail on the head with discussing coming forward regarding criminal activity. I wrote this up earlier but I think that it is a distinction that bears repeating

------------------

Years ago, I used to work with sexual assault and rape victims. Crime victims come forward. Crime victims speak out. THEY demonstrate courage and bravery when they finally tell."


Thanks, Linda. I think this important distinction cannot be re-emphasized enough.

fanny said...

OT, but I just noticed the poll to the left, they actually took removed the tacks? Seriously? I would not play into this crap if I were them. It just makes it worse, imo.

Canadian Kate said...

I'll confess, I'm not the best judge of what is or isn't a good mainstream news item, but I think there are two stories about the Gosselins with the potential for broad appeal:

Financial. (a) First, have the Gosselins always been honest (in fact and in spirit) about their need when they appealed to their audience for donations? Are they being honest now? (b) If the family is earning more than their living expenses, what is happening with the surplus? Is there any guarantee the money will go, at least in part, to the children? ie - are there trust funds?

Second -- child exploitation. I'd like to see reports about the current child labour laws, or lack of, that protect children in the entertainment business. Why is reality TV different? Should it be?





I'm not worried about whether Kate is a bitch or not, or even is she's a people-user, particularly, until it involves using her children. I'm not concerned if Jon is a good guy and I am not at all one to think we're on this earth just to work 9-5, and that there are as many ways to live as there are people. I care that the kids are protected, have good parents and a quality life, and it doesn't seem so to me.

I wish I didn't like the show. I do. I just don't think its a good situation for the kids, and the way Kate and Jon come across, I don't have confidence that they'd pull the plug if it was bringing in a lot of cash.

Fanny said...

Anonymous said...
"Some of you people wouldnt know the truth if it bit you in the ass.
Kate has no friends.
ANyone with eyes and common sense can see Kate for what she is, and its not anything good. She obviously cant stand her boys. Dont talk about editing. She could be much worse to them after the camera's are gone."


I'm sorry but you can't throw the phrase "common sense" around and then ask us not to talk about editing. It is a TV SHOW. The editing is what makes it what it is. If she could be much worse when the cameras are gone, doesn't it also stand to reason that she could be much better when the cameras aren't around? I'm pretty sure that's common sense too.

I think that is exactly the difference between this blog and gwop. Gwoppers tend to try to stick to one sided logic, while the people here, imo, are able to see both sides.

MrsRef said...

Guinevere: In my analogy, I was not trying to say that Jon & Kate are doing anything criminal. I was just trying to say that in my experience, people tend to behave in that manner (giving up info) when they become disillusioned or disgruntled. I personally have a problem with the love offering thing that has been beaten to death but it does not constitute criminal behavior. I think it is much more appropriate for them to be charging a "speakers fee" but that is just my humble opinion. Just wanted to clarify what I said. Thanks.

anya said...

Canadian Kate said...
Second -- child exploitation. I'd like to see reports about the current child labour laws, or lack of, that protect children in the entertainment business. Why is reality TV different? Should it be?


Kate, I am not sure about the financial stuff, but I agree the child exploitation angle (for lack of a better phrase) could be a worthy topic for a journalist to look at. Hopefully, it would move beyond just the Goseelins, however. We have the Duggars and Roloffs too. Also, aren't there kids shown on "Housewives of Orange County?" (I don't watch the show, but isn't one of the teenagers shown a drug addict?) And, of course, the children of "Supernanny", etc. who are subjected to a much shorter term spotlight, but demonstrate behavior that will no doubt make them the talk of their schools and neighborhoods.

Despite what one thinks of the Gosselins pro or con, I do think the relatively new world of reality television does present some difficult concerns for us all to ponder.

Guinevere said...

Canadian Kate, I think the child exploitation angle is a fair one. I don't think what the Gosselins are doing rises to the level of exploitation, but I have no problem with the idea that laws might be made to protect kids on reality tv. In terms of money going to the kids, it has been brought up before, but never answered: what about kids who work on family farms or in family businesses? If a kid is "forced" to wash dishes at his family's restaurant and is not paid, is that exploitation? Should there be a law against it? How is J&K+8 different? (That's a sincere question; there are differences, obviously, but I'm curious about what people think the differences are and if they mean that one kind of work should be compensated and the other shouldn't.)

As for the other...I don't know. I hear people TALK about how J&K poor-mouth and plead poverty at church talks, but I haven't seen any real evidence. On the show, I've seen them talk about the expense of stuff, but not in a "please send us money!" kind of way. I think when the kids got new bikes donated, it was mentioned that buying bikes for all of them would've been expensive. Which is simply a statement of fact.

I simply don't feel that I or any viewer of the show have a right to details of the Gosselins' financial situation. There is a lot we don't know, and it's natural to be curious. But curiousity does not equal a right to know. I think some of the anti-Gosselin folks assume that J&K are simply rolling in dough now. Personally, I doubt it. I think they are probably doing quite well, but I don't know that they are filthy rich. Raising eight kids *is* expensive, even if you're given freebies. They seem to live relatively modest upper-middle class lives.

I have always had a different take on the "Kate is greedy" argument - for me, I see it going back to her anxiety, and I guess that she has concerns - perhaps sometimes unreasonable concerns - about having enough. I don't know how she grew up, so I don't really know if she's influenced by her upbringing or if it's just her nature. But if she were greedy, I would think she'd be living much higher on the hog than the family seems to. I see her doing things like making meals to bring along on road trips rather than having the family stop somewhere and eat in a restaurant. Things like that make me think that she's actually probably pretty thrifty. I don't necessarily admire people who are tight with money (being rather the opposite myself), but again, I see it as a manifestation of fear and anxiety, so I don't judge her too harshly for it.

Guinevere said...

Oh, and if people want to give "love offerings" to the Gosselins at church talks, that's their business. I think it's kind of tacky to ask (if they do ask; it seems like the "love offerings" are sometimes in lieu of the Gosselins charging for the event? I'm not quite clear on that, but I think if that's the case, it's unlikely they are getting anywhere near their purported $25K speaker fee - a figure I find unlikely as well).

I don't know what J&K say at these events. I don't know how much money they are given or what motivates people to give them money. But I don't see it as a matter of fraud or deception. People still give of their own free will, presumably.

Guinevere said...

Mrsref, I understood the point you were making. I was just saying that I don't think these people are saying anything that we haven't already heard or we don't already know, so the urgency of getting the "truth" out seems lessened, to me. Which makes it seem more just like sour grapes on the bloggers' part, honestly, at least to me. It would be different if people were coming forward and really revealing a side of Kate that we don't know or haven't heard about. I would still think it was kind of tacky and petty, but I would understand the impulse much more.

Linda said...

On a much lighter note ... I'm thinking that I watch too much TLC. The other night I had a dream that secret footage was being taken of me for Stacy and Clinton on "What Not to Wear."

Kari said...

Daisy said: "Mady's name is misspelled. Someone as intimate as she says she is with the family would know that her name is spelled Mady. Especially someone that went to their church at the time the twins were born, or so she claims."

The keyboard of my laptop has a habit of double posting letters more often than not. If I don't notice it they don't get edited out. It's likely a simple typo. Certainly nothing to discredit the woman for, anyway, IMO.

Canadian Kate said...

Guinevere --

I think farm work is an excellent example of a family enterprise where the children contribute labour, and I'd suggest that if the type or amount of farm work required was potentially harmful to the child, society would step in. Perhaps there is already legislation in that regard. Also, if any family business, including a farm, relied on the labour of children to make hundreds of thousands dollars profit (or more?) I'm sure we'd be calling for action on behalf of the kids.

Do we have the right to know the details of the Gosselins finances? Good question. Normally, I'd be the first to say no, but in this case, the Gosselins were asking the public for donations. Doesn't that give us some right to ask if the donations are actually needed? You may be right about the church connection. Asking and giving within that context might make it a church thing and non of our concern.

One thing I think about -- if a case can be made that the children have rights to a percentage of the money they help earn, who will ensure that happens, and how can they do that without knowing details? Maybe if the laws were more solid, the kids would have a trustee appointed automatically, and it would become that individual's business to know.

Finally, I like your take on Kate's behaviour. I had a whole theory that she might be suffering from PTST. Having 6 babies at once might be nothing short of a trauma for any woman. But even as my PTST theory was evolving in my own mind and looking more likely to me, I realized I was really speculating for my own entertainment and thought better of it in the end. I've decided not to care too much about how Kate acts and just hope and wish she'll end up being a good mom.

anya said...

Linda said...
On a much lighter note ... I'm thinking that I watch too much TLC. The other night I had a dream that secret footage was being taken of me for Stacy and Clinton on "What Not to Wear."


Too funny! I watch the show from time to time and a small part of me wants someone to nominate me so I can get $5,000 worth of new clothes and advice from S&C!

When push comes to shove, however, I don't think I'd be able to go through it. I'm too private and shy. And as we have seen, people on the intranet can be so mean. I'd probably Google my episode and wreck my self-esteem for the rest of my life!

I agree, these days it seems that my channel is turned to TLC. Used to be CNN, but I got sick of the long and nasty Presidential race....

fanny said...

canadian kate said...

"Normally, I'd be the first to say no, but in this case, the Gosselins were asking the public for donations. Doesn't that give us some right to ask if the donations are actually needed?"



I know about the "wish list" they had back when, but are they still asking for donations? If so, I haven't seen/heard it. I have seen some comments about them "hinting" on camera that they might need this or that,(I think too much is being made out of a "for 8 kids this would be expensive." statement. I don't see that as fact, as someone said earlier, rather than a plead for free stuff), but as far as actually asking for donations, I don't know.

I thought the "love offerings" were better than charging an admission. The G's still get paid for their time (which they should), and the people who maybe couldn't afford to give could still attend. I don't really see that as asking for donations so much as being paid to appear by those who could afford, or didn't mind to pay.

It's better than "Bring us your checkstub so we can determine if you qualify for free admission."

Canadian Kate said...

Good points. What can I say, I believed all that stuff about 'we wouldn't be able to do this without help' comments Kate makes, and I guess I just want to know if I've been had. I'm thinking about now about the difference between feeling entitled and being entitled.

I sincerely do believe the children are owed a percentage of the show (and related activities), which should be kept in trust for them. I also believe an independent, court-appointed third party should be made aware of all the financial details of the tups&twins enterprise and enpowered to act on the childrens' behalf.

MrsRef said...

One of the church's they appeared at (Trinity Church) had their talk available at one time on their sermon list. I downloaded it and listened to it in the car. They told the story of how they were poor and God provided and how each day is still a struggle and then stopped to take a collection. Having grown up in church for 50 years, I have heard this type of thing many times before and it always proceeds the "love offering" I firmly believe it is a way to get people to dig a little deeper in their pockets.

PlaidPants said...

I read and agreed with most of the comments about hand me downs, etc.

I look at pictures of myself growing up dressed in some of most funkiest outfits imaginable. Most of my clothes were hand me downs from my girl cousin that was 2 years older. We are both onlies and our Mothers were too practical for letting good clothes go to waste.

When I had my daughter, I didn't "court" hand me downs. So I never really received many of them. I had offers, but I would politely decline. In my family, most of our old anything gets sent to the "old country" for our other relatives to make use of. So there was always someone else who could use them.

The "funky" outfits that I wore were eventually worn by distant cousins thousands of miles away.

I of course had relatives that were insistant that I take some of the clothes. Rather than insult them, I would thank them profusely and make sure they saw my daughter in them at least once.

I consider myself to be really picky myself, but if something was not really to my liking, I would never outright turn it away.

That's why I don't understand how Kate could make it seem like they were so in need of things and then be rude when it didn't pass mustard.

In the "Surving" special, the tups had 6 matching cribs. That made me believe the story about her turning away the individual items from different people. She really seems into the "matchy matchy" thing.

I just can't imagine even asking people to get a specific item. Maybe it's a cultural thing. A gift is a gift. You may not like it, but you are gracious and thankful for the thought.

PlaidPantsAgain said...

They told the story of how they were poor and God provided and how each day is still a struggle and then stopped to take a collection. Having grown up in church for 50 years, I have heard this type of thing many times before and it always proceeds the "love offering" I firmly believe it is a way to get people to dig a little deeper in their pockets.

On the Gosselin website archive, on the page where Jon had written a tribute when his Father passed, it put a bad taste in my mouth where he mentioned his family's "financial" problems in the same vein - twice.

mawake said...

I wanted to add something to this discussion that maybe some of you haven't thought of. Regarding the insurance fraud example--I don't think that was too far off base. If Jon and Kate are receiving free merchandise and services, wouldn't they owe taxes on all of that? I know I have no way of knowing if they are paying the taxes but that follows the example given. Same goes with the donations. They would owe taxes on them since they are not a non-profit and since they are probably mostly in cash, it would be difficult to know if they are paying the correct taxes on them.
I can't say that Jon and Kate do the best job parenting but who does? I make many mistakes. I do, however, take issue with cheating the IRS because that in turn cheats me. :)
As for the family business example--I believe laws should exist to protect children in that regard. I don't believe that they shouldn't be able to help. I worked with my dad in his business when I was 9. I think he paid me $10 a day.:) Children should not have the weight of supporting their family, though.

Anonymous said...

Penn Mommy is (IMHO) telling the truth. She provides many facts. When she mentions facts, she goes out of her way to say that this is her opinion or recollection of the facts. She has said that she will not reveal information that would be harmful to the children. I believe that her blog is true. I would imagine that she is a church member who stepped forward to help feed babies and provide other types of help.

Baby Mama said...

The comments that are being made on this blog are very similar as a few of the others with variations. There is speculation that people who were volunteers when they were helping the family didnt feel that they were apprecaited for their services. That is how alot of these blogs where "they personally" know Kate got started. Now I still doubt this woman may have known Kate, but now with the money situation EVERYONE appears to be coming out of the woodwork,(unless its one person)for some restitution for helping "out of the kindness of their hearts." A family that started out needing so much is now wealthy enough not to need their help or compensate them for it. So again either its the same person doing different blogs, or everyone's just hopping on the ol Kate bandwagon in the hopes that the more that people complain, the hope that the show will be canceled. So that the "victory dance" can be done for minimal satisfaction.

anya said...

MrsRef said...
One of the church's they appeared at (Trinity Church) had their talk available at one time on their sermon list. I downloaded it and listened to it in the car.


MrsRef, do you happen to remember if their talk was a relatively recent one? Just curious. It would color my opinion somewhat if the talk was from a year plus ago as opposed to a few months ago.

Thanks.

Tyra said...

Quote:
'One thing I think about -- if a case can be made that the children have rights to a percentage of the money they help earn, who will ensure that happens, and how can they do that without knowing details?'

But it still will not be the public's right to know. If reform/creation of laws that apply to kids on reality shows do occur, people who want to know about the Gosselins' financial info will be terribly frustrated that they will still not be entitled to know that or any other private specifics. It will take so long to get laws in effect, the Gosselin kids will probably be in college. I really doubt that the blogosphere will be mesmerized watching congressional hearings on proposed legislation on C-Span. I just hope at that point the blogs aren't still discussing rooster hair.

Quote:
One of the church's they appeared at (Trinity Church) had their talk available at one time on their sermon list. I downloaded it and listened to it in the car. They told the story of how they were poor and God provided and how each day is still a struggle and then stopped to take a collection.

I can see how this could be very compelling as evidence for forming an unfavorable opinion of the Gosselins. What disturbs me is when these types of things are compiled and labeled as evidence and used to justify taking overt action against the family. After something like that is stated on a site like GWoP, there are no further questions asked, it's just accepted as 'evidence'. When was the talk given? Maybe Jon and Kate were sincere about their sense of urgency about their financial situation when the talk was given. How does it compare to talks given more recently?

Guinevere said...

Do we have the right to know the details of the Gosselins finances? Good question. Normally, I'd be the first to say no, but in this case, the Gosselins were asking the public for donations. Doesn't that give us some right to ask if the donations are actually needed?

I think it's up to each individual to decide how much research they want to do before contributing to any charity. If the details of the Gosselins' finances aren't public, then you are well within your rights not to contribute any money to them. I don't think they are obligated to release their financial information to to the world, though. And anyway, the people who want the info so badly aren't even the people who would contribute to them anyway; they are the people who wouldn't spit on Kate Gosselin if she was on fire.

mawake, it doesn't follow for me that because we don't know about the Gosselins' tax returns, they are probably committing a crime, i.e. tax fraud. I don't have your tax returns in front of me - does that mean you are committing tax fraud? We have no reason to think that the Gosselins cheat on their taxes, and it's none of our business.

Penn Mommy is (IMHO) telling the truth. She provides many facts. When she mentions facts, she goes out of her way to say that this is her opinion or recollection of the facts.

She may be telling the truth about knowing the Gosselins; it wouldn't shock me. It also wouldn't surprise me to find out she's never met them. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that her whole blog is a sock puppet for someone who does or doesn't know the Gosselins and holds a grudge against them.

The only "facts" I saw in her blog were things that were already known or alleged (Thomas Gosselin was a dentist; Kate complained about the remodel of her house), so to me, they prove nothing. And anyway, I don't CARE that much if her whole blog is true. I don't have a lot invested in seeing Kate Gosselin as perfect. So what if every bad thing people say about her is true? Does that mean that the show should be taken off the air (even though it seems to me that that should be a completely separate issue)? Does that mean people should stalk and harrass the Gosselins and call the CPS to try to get their children taken away from them? What is the point of all this "truth" telling, anyway?

Tyra said...

Quote:
'If Jon and Kate are receiving free merchandise and services, wouldn't they owe taxes on all of that? I know I have no way of knowing if they are paying the taxes but that follows the example given. Same goes with the donations. They would owe taxes on them since they are not a non-profit and since they are probably mostly in cash, it would be difficult to know if they are paying the correct taxes on them.'

Unless some JK8 viewer personally possesses concrete evidence that tax cheating is going on, why is there any point in speculating about that? Or contacting the IRS? (Which I've seen suggested, more than once.) It reminds me of a scavenger hunt. Let's dig here, or let's dig over there.

MrsRef said...

Tyra: The talk was given in February of 2008. I still have the "talk" on cd - I did not collect it as evidence or anything sinister. I had put it on a cd to let my then 28 year old daughter hear it because she USED to be a fan. I did not bring up GWOP in relation to my post. I have also not planned any covert or overt operations to bring down the Gosselins. I have drawn my own opinions based on what I have seen and heard.

mawake said...

I'm sorry I wasn't clear on my argument. I didn't mean to speculate that they are cheating on their taxes. I realize that it's none of my business. I was just trying to support the argument that the people involved see what goes on behind the scenes and they don't like it. That was just an example. I realize I should not have gone there because people will definitely go with it and run. Especially at another site.:) I have always wondered about it, though.

anya said...

MrsRef said...
Tyra: The talk was given in February of 2008. I still have the "talk" on cd - I did not collect it as evidence or anything sinister. I had put it on a cd to let my then 28 year old daughter hear it because she USED to be a fan. I did not bring up GWOP in relation to my post. I have also not planned any covert or overt operations to bring down the Gosselins. I have drawn my own opinions based on what I have seen and heard.


MrsRef, I don't think anyone was suggesting you brought up the talk as part of a larger "campaign". And, of course, you are right to draw your own conclusions based on what you have seen and heard.

I'd have to hear the CD myself to make a final judgment, but I appreciate you sharing the information. I have said before that I believe that now that they appear financially stable, they should really just discontinue the church appearances or restrict them. And, if they feel called to do it, than I think they should just charge a very nominal fee ($10 per head) or nothing at all. It's not so much about the $ as the fact that it takes them away from the kids.

Just my opinion. Not really my business obviously.

Nancy said...

NinaBell said, regarding the new "Truth" Blog:
"...I didn't see where she was even professing that she was doing it to save the children."

Why would it be necessary for that lady to start a blog with the intention of "saving the children"? Do the children need to be saved? They do need the cameras to go away, but to expect "saving the children" as a reason to start a blog is a bit of a stretch!

Guinevere said...

Mrsref, I'd have to hear the talk myself (and confirm its date) to know for sure what to think. One thing that has struck me about the claims that the Gosselins still poor-mouth is that it would take a lot of chutzpah considering that presumably people know about their show and watch it enough to know that their lifestyle is comfortable.

If it really is as explicit as you say it is, it's not going to make me go, "Aha! The GWoPpers were right all along!" But it'd probably turn me off a bit more than some of the other stuff that seems to get everyone so exercised.

Though, without sounding too much like an apologist...since we really *don't* know the truth about the Gosselins' finances, then we don't know for sure that they aren't in need. We can speculate, sure, based on various things we've seen on the show. But we don't really know.

BTW, I stopped by Penn Mommy's blog again, and happened to see her use the phrase "Hither, thither, and yon" in reference to Kate. Since this is a phrase that Kate once used, and that for some reason the GWoPpers love to make fun of Kate for, I find myself extremely suspicious of Penn Mommy's use of it. It doesn't mean she doesn't know them, but...has she claimed that she wasn't on GWoP before starting her blog? Because I'm beginning to strongly suspect that she was.

Nina Bell said...

Nancy,

That was written with a sarcastic tone to it which obviously you can't detect over the internet. And I think you know who it was directed towards.

MrsRef said...

It was Trinity Bible Church in Lafayette Louisiana. February 2008 I would have no reason to make it up and I doubt the church would either.

Mom said...

Anyone else "over it" as far as the other "truth" blog? I am. I'm not even interested in reading more.

Nina Bell said...

What was the reason to start this blog?

Let's say you and I are neighbors. We disagree about of few things that have happened between us. I feel that you took advantage of me and a few other neighbors. But I did not suffer any emotional, physical or financial hardship because of it. Maybe I was inconvienced some.

You decided to run for mayor in our town. I decide to start a blog and reveal information about you and your family. I reveal conversations that we have had in the past. I reveal conversations that I heard second hand and am not really sure they happen but they make my case.

Friends and neighbors of the other candidate get wind of it and see a gold mine. They stroke my ego and tell me how brave I am for coming forth with this information. I am stoked and loving the attention. I decide to write even more. Since I don't really have enough information on my own when people ask questions, I tell people I will ask other friends and neighbors and get the dirt.

Of course all of this is done anonymously. So you have no recourse. And of course being a better person than myself, you remain quiet and don’t address any of the issues publicly. But in the end the damage is done. You lose the campaign based on an anonymous blogger who had an ax to grind.

Was I justified? Is this a good reason?

Anonymous said...

No, NinaBell, it was not a good reason. While I did think her blog was easier to read because it's not continually vomiting hate all over the reader, and is actually well-written, I still question - why? I don't want to hear the schpiel about standing up with the truth, standing up for the kids, etc.

I was really bothered by her "ask a friend" response. That means at least part of her information is not first hand knowledge. As with Julie's blog, I can't imagine dedicating an entire blog about my sister's brother in law (in my case), my church friends, or neighbors. I don't really know enough to say much. And I think it's tacky.

I also want to say that I am a teacher, and it is incredibly easy to create snap judgments and scenarios about a family or situation from a little bit of information. We are all guilty of it. In my case, I get to do it every year with a new group of students. I then am mortified at my own secret thoughts when I discover that the family, or situation is nothing like what I thought (for better or worse). This is a wonderful reminder to me to really be cautious with my judgment and to make sure that I reserve judgment for times when I have total understanding of a situation.

If you really want to do something, find a productive means to do it. Don't just gripe online about it. Oh wait...what am I doing right now?! Ahh...I guess I'm a hypocrite, too. HA.

anya said...

Guinevere said...
BTW, I stopped by Penn Mommy's blog again, and happened to see her use the phrase "Hither, thither, and yon" in reference to Kate. Since this is a phrase that Kate once used, and that for some reason the GWoPpers love to make fun of Kate for, I find myself extremely suspicious of Penn Mommy's use of it. It doesn't mean she doesn't know them, but...has she claimed that she wasn't on GWoP before starting her blog? Because I'm beginning to strongly suspect that she was.


Penn Mommy's response (posted in the middle of another comment further down the page): "Until very, very recently, I had no idea that there was such a site as GWoP."

Yep, not really buying that! Whether she is "legit" or not, one thing seems pretty clear -- she is definately enjoying the attention!

Mom said...
Anyone else "over it" as far as the other "truth" blog? I am. I'm not even interested in reading more.


Yeah, she really doesn't have anything of substance to add, does she? Although she's easier to tolerate than some of the Kate haters, I am sure we can find better things to do with our time and IF and WHEN she comes out with something "juicy" or proves her identity, I am sure a certain blog will email Nina Bell right away!

nomoredrama said...

http://www.trinitybible.org/default.aspx?pid=201

This is the link to the site where the archives are but I cannot get it to play. I'm really interested to hear that sermon.

I personally don't think Pennmommy is making it up. It sounds like she was a volunteer. I don't think she is saying anything new and I don't necessarily buy that she didn't care if anyone found her blog. She says in the beginning that she was inspired by Jodi. Well, how did she know about the Jodi/Julie thing? And if she is visiting support blogs then she would have certainly seen people plugging GWoP. I highly doubt she had never been there.

With that being said, I'd like to add that I don't doubt that others perceived Kate as ungrateful (and maybe, at times, she was). I'm sure she snapped out, just like she did about the gum. But...even so, I don't think that makes her a terrible, evil person. In fact, her behavior is too be expected based on what people say about her...

For example, most people (including Julie) agree that Kate is controlling. Well, if a person who is highly controlling had her home remodeled and had no input in it, how do you think that is going to play out? Would you honestly expect a different reaction? I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it fits. So you can't say "She's a controlling bitch" and then act surprised when she behaves like that.

Secondly, though it was very kind of the churchgoers to do what they did, if someone painted something in your home that you truly felt was ugly and not your taste...sure you'd say thanks to the person's face but in front of friends, you'd probably talk about it behind the person's back. You'd be scrambling to find an excuse to paint over the wall. We women are very particular about our home decorating. I'm sure someone will respond to this and say "if my community was being so kind, I would never...blah blah blah" but really, you would. We all would. We all have. That gift from Aunt Suzy that you just hated and stuffed in a closet? It was free, wasn't it? It was given to you out of love, wasn't it?

I have another friend (Different friend, and, I know, I keep talking about friends) who recently had a baby (beautiful little girl). She and her husband struggle financially. Another friend of mine who wanted to be helpful to her donated at least 3 large tupperware bins full of baby girl clothing. Well, my pregnant (at the time)friend is very, shall we say, non-traditional. The clothing donated was mostly pink and girly. Pink and girly was not pregnant friend's thing. So, one day we went through all of the bins and after going through every item she only kept about 10 things and donated the rest. I say, who cares? It was her prerogative. Should she dress her kids in clothes she hates because somebody gave them to her?

I know I wouldn't. I just think these kinds of things are touchy. If I was being flooded with donations, I don't think I'd keep everything given to me. So I'm not angry with her turning things away or being picky.

What I think is wrong (if I find any evidence of it) is them crying poor mouth now. I also think pretending to not have help is wrong. I do think it's wrong that Kate did not acknowledge Beth and Jodi as help when asked on Ellen. However, I still contend that Kate in some weird way did not see them as "help." I do think that she probably took her family help for granted and, maybe at some point, just expected that Jodi would do it. I think treating family like that is wrong but it takes two for that to happen. The treater and the one allowing themselves to be treated that way. Jodi should have exercised assertiveness and didn't. So, like many of us ( I include myself in this because I am like this) who do and do for people and don't say no, after a while we start to become resentful. But being non-confrontational, we keep in all in. Then one day, after we've been "walked on" it builds up and explodes.

I know, I know, windy.....

Anonymous said...

oooooo, apparently PennMommy doesn't like posters asking real questions of her. I saw this posted and was shocked by her response

itsjustme913 said...
I guess I'm just curious about why you've chosen to ignore some of the more intelligent questions and focus on the ridiculous ones from extremist supporters?


You can please some people some of the time, but never all of them all of the time. I've had this blog less than a week. I've had two days of.... you know what, I'll get to things when I get to them. I'm sorry if it's not agreeable to your time frame.

No one has been ignored here. No one will be ignored if they show a little patience instead of getting their feelings hurt.


Wow. Such anger and hostility for only 2 days of blogging. Is it too much for you? Well, no one asked you to start so stop playing the martyr now. You made your bed and guess what, people are going to doubt you. Get over it or disable comments.

anotherania said...

NoMoreDrama,
I agree the subject is "touchy" - did your non-pink-liking friend "ask" for the handmedowns?

I guess it doesn't matter, but I would be kind of offended if someone asked me for handmedowns then deemed them not worthy per se?

I think every woman has their own degree of "Sally Abright" mentality of "I like it the way I like it" - but if you are at the mercy of the kindness of others.... shouldn't one's own particularness be turned down a notch? (Beggars can't be choosers)

That gift from Aunt Suzy that you just hated and stuffed in a closet? It was free, wasn't it? It was given to you out of love, wasn't it?

But I would have at least thanked her for it and would not, not accepted it (does that make sense?)

nomoredrama said...

Right, of course you would have accepted it. But would maybe chuckle about it with your family and friends?

As for my non-pink-loving friend (I think this is cute, she'd probably smile at that). No, she didn't ask for them but they were a surprise for her baby shower that we threw her (Yes, I know that sounds strange, used gifts at a baby shower but this wasn't her main baby shower, just one we, the close friends, gave).

I see your point in saying she asked for the donations but she had gotten (by all reports) tons of donations already. If she really wasn't going to use what was being given to her, wouldn't it be more selfish to keep it instead of giving it away so others can benefit from it?

I can understand the beggars can't be choosers line of thinking (trust me, I do). But I think it's kind of fuzzy. If you are married, did you use every wedding present you were given? Did it not irk you a bit that people bought an item that was not the item you had registered for (example, the wrong iron).

I'm just saying...if you think about it, we've all been done things that may have seemed ungrateful in our lives.

Trust me, I know Kate has flaws. I do think she is a troubled individual in some sense. But I also think that her actions are scrutinized to the higest degree and its somewhat unfair. If we all took a step back and examined our own lives, we'd see that there are many things we all could be criticized for.

anotherania said...

But would maybe chuckle about it with your family and friends?

Of course, in the case of my Aunt Suzy, I could turn around and give the gift back to her at the next occasion and she would be none the wiser.

What I have in my mind, when I am responding to this is the supposed refusal of the new Walmart clothes.

Kate could not have just accepted the clothes and just "paid it forward"?

BTW the used stuff at a baby shower is not strange. I was at a shower last week and the Mom-to-be's brother brought over all his "gently used" baby gear that his one year old just out grew.

I was just thinking, the things we put on a registry - aren't they things that we could afford ourselves? They are just meant to be a "suggestion" for our guests to purchase. I just think that in Kate's situation her "wants" were times four (if she dained to reuse the twins things) or times six. I don't care how much money she had, or if she was really financially destitute - why didn't she just take what was offered ?

I guess I am trying to find a "rationional" reason that doesn't make her look so ungrateful.

Tyra said...

Quote:
'Tyra: The talk was given in February of 2008. I still have the "talk" on cd - I did not collect it as evidence or anything sinister. I had put it on a cd to let my then 28 year old daughter hear it because she USED to be a fan. I did not bring up GWOP in relation to my post. I have also not planned any covert or overt operations to bring down the Gosselins. I have drawn my own opinions based on what I have seen and heard.'

My point didn't have anything to do with you personally. It's the contrast between offering opinions at a site (here) that accepts them and respects them as opinions, and posting them at a place (otherwise known as the site which shall not be named) that collects like opinions in the mistaken belief that a multitude of opinions in a mass = fact. That's all.

Linda said...

Yeah, I'm not sure that I entirely buy that she didn't know about GwoP entirely. If you google "Gosselins", GwoP is the first entry that comes up.

anotherania said...

Yeah, I'm not sure that I entirely buy that she didn't know about GwoP entirely. If you google "Gosselins", GwoP is the first entry that comes up.

There are a lot of times when I read some of the comments and I say to myself "yeah right" - but I would never post it.

It doesn't seem like it would validate my point any.

With this being said, there was some discussion how it's ok to say Kate's behavior is "bitchy" but it's not ok to call her a bitch.

Personally, I don't see the distinction.

IMO
When we discuss the show we draw our own inferences about Kate or Jon - we don't know them, but we compare them to examples that we have in our own lives. To go back to the Real World reference "we use what they gave us".

Now, I don't think it's fair to say, "I don't believe you", even though it is your opinion> For me that's like calling someone a liar. How can we infer that from a few sentences?

We don't know Mrs. Ref but I do know that there are a lot of people (not all but a lot) who will always give Jon and kate the benefit of the doubt but be very wary of the contrary.

So why can't we offer the same courtesy to our fellow posters?

Is there a way to say our piece without sounding so accusatory?

Anonymous said...

I think the evidence points to the fact that she has known about GWoP for much longer than she states. Click on her profile and it says that she's been on blogger since July.

Linda said...

anotherania -

I think that you are right and I will try to be a bit more measured in my comments about those kinds of things.

I'm thinking that anonymous 9:38 may be right though. It is suspicious to me.

Do you find it unusual that just as people are starting to grow suspicious and weary of the tactics of GwoP, this blog sprouts up? I do.

Anonymous said...

July 2008 is a far cry from 2 days ago. We're in September.

anotherania said...

I think the evidence points to the fact that she has known about GWoP for much longer than she states. Click on her profile and it says that she's been on blogger since July.

Ok just for argument sake, I clicked on every clickable name - some have chosen to not have their profile available. The majority of people have signed up in July and August - what does that prove? Amy (sorry I am just using you as an example) has been on since June. Does that mean anything? She's been on the longest! Sorry, I don't see the how long Mrs.Ref has had a registered blogger profile relates to her being accused of "playing dumb"
regarding GWOP.

I just don't see how any of this matters.

My blogger profile says I have been on since August of 2006 - if I said "I just found out about GWoP" would I not be believed because I have been registered for a long time?

Just my thought.

anotherania said...

Do you find it unusual that just as people are starting to grow suspicious and weary of the tactics of GwoP, this blog sprouts up? I do.

Linda, I don't. I'll tell you why I just don't want to post my reason why - it has to do with the identity of Penn Mommy.

emailme at readyourblog@yahoo.com and I will tell you my theory.

nomoredrama said...

My blogger profile says I have been on since August of 2006 - if I said "I just found out about GWoP" would I not be believed because I have been registered for a long time?
If you lied and tried to say you just came to the blogging world days ago then, yes. I want to know how it is possible that she has visited these pro-gosselin sites but only VERY recently heard about GWoP? If she has been researching the controversy since July, its unlikely that GWoP has not come up in a search.

And answer this, if she lives in Pennsylvania then why is she posting on west coast time?

Anonymous said...

I have a theory too. PennMommy is BK. Both of these people claimed that their children were threatened. I didn't see anyone post threats to her kids. But yet both had to keep on posting. The stories are too similar. Even down to how this Penn mommy has no idea about blogging but knows the ins and outs of IP addresses. Just like BK who immediately checked the IP address of this so-called threatening email (that was likely a fake). Let's see, she's been on since July of 08, that is around the time that BK started posting at GWoP. I smell a fraud who probably has a few screws loose in her head. Watch the lunatics drool as she posts her story which is just a combination of every story ever published on the internet about the family. It's so hilarious what people will believe.

Anonymous said...

Hi! I went and saw Jon and Kate speak this past August. They did tell about when the babies were little how they financially struggled to make ends meet. However, they at no point ever made reference to the fact that they were still struggling. The pastor of the service is the one that mentioned taking a love offering, but he specifically mentioned the love offering was payment for them coming to speak, so "bless them."

Second- I think pennmommy is adding fuel to a fire, for what purpose who knows. I feel that if she was really hurt by Kate and her actions, then blogging it wouldn't be the way to get over it...I mean why would you continue to want to answer questions and talk about a situation or situations that were "traumatic" in your life with strangers? I also feel she gave no new information, so again I believe truth or not she is just doing it for attention.

Anonymous said...

pennmommy said How long did Kate work as a nurse? Did she lose her job due to going on bedrest?
I can answer this question as it was something a few of us discussed after church. Kate and Jon claim some very odd things when it comes to their employment status. When Kate first said she was fired for bed rest, an attorney within our church told her that that was illegal. You can't fire an employee for unforeseeable pregnancy complications.



When I saw Jon and Kate she says she was on bed rest, and still receiving pay and benefits through her nursing job. Also that when the tups were born she had COBRA'd the same insurance...that isn't a choice if your fired from your job.

Anonymous said...

Anon at 7:38,
Thanks so much for sharing that. I spoke to a relative of mine what was a deacon in an Assemblies of God church. He said that every speaker would have to fill out a 1099 form for the "love offerings." Love offerings are given to ANYONE who speaks in a church like this. They are not made on the basis of income.

MrsRef said...

I have never played dumb for the record. I can see both points of view and am intelligent enough to form my own opinions. I have posted at several blogs not all pertaining to J&K. And so you can all know me, I just turned 50, live in NJ and I am an insurance agent. I have three children, 29, 27 and 24. I had all three of them by the time I was 25 so I do have some perspective on the young parent issue. All of my children are college graduates and working professionals so I think I do know something about raising children. I have also been married to the same man for 31 years. Why was I being singled out as "we don't know her" Now you do.

Anonymous said...

There are some pretty ugly comments on PennMommy's latest post - this blog was even brought up. I don't think I will ever understand the passion and venom that this show seemingly brings out in people. I also feel that this demonstrates that posting these "tell all" blogs only creates more problem, not solving anything.

Thanks for not allowing comments that get so out of hand, accusatory, and downright creepy (announcing that you've looked up someone else's contact information and holding that over their head).

I just want to make the occasional comment about the show, without the drama. This is the best place for that, clearly.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, I saw the post about them blatantly going after that person. Its sick. I would never post over there now, knowing how crazy the people are.

Speaking of Penn Mommy, didn't she sa y that she had only recently found GWoP. Yet, in her latest string, she says that she read almost all of it. Kind of had a busy 2 days, didn't she?

Anonymous said...

Yeah, I saw the post about them blatantly going after that person. Its sick. I would never post over there now, knowing how crazy the people are.

Ok - can we know agree that the "sickos" clearly do not belong to any one side. GWoP has taken a hit for "stalkerish" behavior. Now we are to belive they are going after their own? Crazy is crazy, regardless.

Speaking of Penn Mommy, didn't she sa y that she had only recently found GWoP. Yet, in her latest string, she says that she read almost all of it. Kind of had a busy 2 days, didn't she?

I think you may be confusing this statement with something another poster has been called on for.

I have been reading the posts as they come up, but have not committed them to memory or anything. I don't recall PennMommy saying this, but I could be wrong - when I have time, I will reread.

Anonymous said...

Guinevere,

I can't believe it took me this long to find your blog. I'm pleased to read that there are people who have been thinking the same things I have about the Gosselins and their critics.

I'm with most of you that I don't agree with everything the Gosselins do, but am able to see their human side amidst their faults and that harsh criticism is usually for the benefit of the person doing the criticizing.

There seems to be an impasse between the pro-speakers and con-speakers...each side claiming the other has the wool pulled over their eyes and are limited mentally, socially, etc. That's mainly why I don't engage in the discussion much anymore. By now most people have an opinion on the show, and it's not likely to change, regardless of how many "truth tellers" appear.

As far as the lastest Truth site, I can see she may have some insight, but very little of it carries much weight. She just answered a question today stating she'd been involved, even financially, with the Gosselins up until and into the last year or so, despite all of Kate & Jon's supposed bad behavior that she's listed in detail since before the tups were born.

Were they that awful for over 4 years now, but she just has reservations in the last year, only now has her conscience taken over?

The Truth blogger was kindhearted enough to not walk away from people who needed her (the Gosselins), despite her reservations, but now it's okay to talk about them in this manner?

I don't know. I don't care how intelligently you write, it just doesn't sit right with me. I do think it's gossipy and doesn't help the situation.

If anything, it may alienate the Gosselins from anyone else who's still in their lives because now they have to wonder who will be the next to come out with a tell-it-like-I-saw-it blog. If they weren't paranoid before, they will be now.

Thanks again for your blog!

Anonymous said...

WoP has taken a hit for "stalkerish" behavior. Now we are to belive they are going after their own? Crazy is crazy, regardless.
I was referring to the Penn Mommy blog where they went after a poster, looked up their personal info then advertised that they had done so. All the while accusing the person of making threats which the person did not make.

I think you may be confusing this statement with something another poster has been called on for.

She said "Until very, very recently, I had no idea that there was such a site as GWoP."

posted under Isabelle's question

nomoredrama said...

Strange that the "truth" bloggers can't seem to recall what they said the "truth" was from one day to the next.

And the are just DRAWN to the spotlight. Already this Penn Mommy is posting at GWoP alongside Julie.

I think the "truth" is that even if this person knows the Gosselins, she does not know much.

Fanny said...

mrsref, I could be wrong, but I think that reference was to "penn mommy" and "anotherania" just got it mixed up.

Anonymous said...

Ms Ref: Anothrenia was confused. I posted the comment and I was not referring to you. I was referring to Penn Mommy who claimed that until "very, very recently" she had no idea what GWoP was. Your credibility is not in question.

Anonymous said...

I was referring to the Penn Mommy blog where they went after a poster, looked up their personal info then advertised that they had done so. All the while accusing the person of making threats which the person did not make.

Ok - I thought you were referring the Penn Mommy's statement that she and her family had been threatened.

Also, thank you for pointing out the "claim" - I have not read all the comments.

anotherania said...

Sorry that would be me - Mrs.Ref and Tyra were having a discussion and one of the last comments was
(from Mrs.Ref)
"I would have no reason to make it up and I doubt the church would either."

Tyra Responds and

Right after there was this comment from Linda.

"Yeah, I'm not sure that I entirely buy that she didn't know about GwoP entirely. If you google "Gosselins", GwoP is the first entry that comes up."

I thought Linda was referring the exchange between Tyra and Mrs.Ref (Sorry Linda)

and my comment was
"Is there a way to say our piece without sounding so accusatory?"


Either way, in my way I was "defending" you.

BTW Linda, what I wanted to tell you was a hunch, but I didn't want to "accuse" anyone of anything (by posting it here - you know the opinion, presented as fact thing). I just don't want you to think that I was trying to get you to e-mail me to get your information.

Anonymous said...

Since the comments are moderated and there may be a lapse between the comments appearing - to avoid confusion, could we please try to put quotes around what we are referring or commenting to (if we are responding to someone else) or bold?

Linda said...

mrsref -
31 years of marriage with three grown children is quite an accomplishment. Congratulations to you and your family.

smiles!

Linda said...

Also, someone wrote that if you've been fired you are ineligible for COBRA benefits.

You are ineligible for COBRA benefits in the case of gross misconduct, but typically that is typically left to the discretion of the business owner.

My husband's business has had to fire employees and have offered them COBRA benefits except in one case when there was gross misconduct.

twinmom said...

I haven't read all the responses here but after going over to the blog noted I began to feel so sorry for this whole mess. I mean, why are there so many people who would resort to the internet and NOT speak up to Kate and Jon? I would. If these things had been my experience, I would certainly let them know. If I was present at the home and heard the ungrateful comments about the house that was redone for them (or whatever it was-truly I am confused at this point)
I would have spoken up right then and there. On the spot. If I had been called re the "yoghurt" I would have been at the door in a heartbeat and had a long talk with Kate. I also wonder why the person who made that call stays if she is so terrified of repercussions from Kate and Jon. I do believe Kate has an anxiety disorder. I have watched and watched and read come comments here and there (it's true that I am not obsessed and don't log on everyday and I don't read things like gwop at all as the times I have been there I have either had a single post attacked rabidly, or I have been kind of sick to my stomach at the mob cruelty. I just can't stand it) and I'm not being cruel when I say there is something that is not quite right. Is she a horrible mother and terrible, dangerous person? Not at all. But I do think she is tormented by something that drives some of the behavior that is often criticized. I'm not defending her or attacking her. Just giving my opinion. As someone mentioned above somewhere, I don't understand the need for person after person to get on the internet and write a blog about the family and claim incredible hurt and upset and damage, etc. but they NEVER approach the Gosselins. They just write things on their blogs.
And some of it is even celebratory. When Jodi went on her sister's blog and we had the link here, I saw (is it Julie?) pop her head in with a look on her face that suggested glee. If I was Jodi's sister, I would console her and support her and help her to approach Jon and Kate to work on the situation. I wouldn't go on the attack on the internet. If these things we read are true re the money, etc. then J & K should not be given anything else. The only way that happens is if people stop donating. If the show is really their "job" then that should pay for things. Finally, without wasting anymore of your space and time I truly believe this has all gone way over the top, things are out of control and the accusations of hate that are scoffed at or rebuked are very telling. When you speak out against someone who is intent on doing harm, they get very angry. The responses to some of the comments on this truth site were very biting and snarky (by the blogger). I find that odd for someone who is claiming to be Christian, etc. The threats? I didn't really see any. Maybe one comment that was kind of out there. If you are speaking the truth (blogger) then why would you be so frightened? If you don't want to attract any undesirable people into your life then don't blog and certainly don't give hints as to who you are in the community. This is a bizarre situation. There are other families being covered on various cable stations. True, they are not weekly, but they have put their stories out there and I'm sure they got paid for doing so. Would the same attack mode be in full force if they dared to give their story more air time?

I'm not convinced that the kids are always comfortable with this. I'm not sure they will be permanently damaged by this. The truth is nobody will know that until the behavior shows up, whether it be anger and resentment in their adult years or more resounding teenage behavior that is over the top. Nobody really knows. I am not going to attack this family because they chose to do the show. Do I think it should continue? Maybe not. Maybe they should consider that the next season be the last. If the kids are going to kindergarten maybe it's time to move on. And who knows? Perhaps they are trying to do just that by finding another house in another place, far away from all of the circus they helped to create. Are they blameless? I don't think so, but neither do I believe they are horrible monsters. I could be wrong. But who am I? Just another viewer and just another opinion and we all know what they say about opinions!

I just wish it would stop. The people coming out of the woodwork who are "family" "helpers" "friends". I wish they would just stop and speak their mind to the very people they are writing about on the internet. Go to the clergy of the church and "out" them. Get an attorney instead of this anonymous and antagonistic blabbing. Don't they realize that if what they say is true that they are hurting these children even more? I wouldn't stand for it if it was my family member. I wouldn't resort to this kind of blackmail. I'm weary of it all.

Linda said...

twinmom,

Thank you so much for your thought filled post.

I know that I felt a kind of profound sadness and even panic for the safety of the family when I first started visiting GwoP.

Like you I also felt uncomfortable about the smile given by Julie when Jodi summoned her on camera.
It just seemed a little too happy and celebratory for my liking too.

I'm like you in that I wonder does no one go to the Gs directly? I've read that supposedly they don't listen but I don't think that it means that the next solution is to take it to the internet. It is disgusting.

Coincidentally, even Serena at GwoP mentioned that curiosity to know does not necessarily mean right to know.

Too bad that this has never been afforded to the Gs.

Mom said...

Okay.....

All I can say is things have gotten pretty ugly over on PennMommy's site. Yikes.

Threats to arrest and sue. Yucky.

I'm just going to stay away from there.

It's one thing to post your "truth." But, now to post on the other board. (I've read a few posts and IMO her comments aren't too nice.)

I will give Julie this one piece of credit. She didn't open her space up for comments or post her email. I'm not sure why someone (PennM) would do this unless they really wanted to jump on the bandwagon. Doesn't quite make sense to me. Is it just me?

Someone suggested that she doesn't allow emails or comments and it started a very ugly dispute over there. AGain, yuck.

Glad we have this board here.

Thanks Nina, Guin and NMD :-)

Anonymous said...

Coincidentally, even Serena at GwoP mentioned that curiosity to know does not necessarily mean right to know.

I e-mailed Serena once to ask her if anyone had every given her information about Tom's brother - the soccer coach. I saw the link to the college he coaches on TWoP.

She told me no - that no one has ever come forward to say that they've spoken to any of Jon's family.

I told her that I was curious and tempted to send a polite e-mail, but felt like it would be an invasion of privacy. She understood the curiousity of wanting to know "more" and "going right to the "source" but she agreed that it was not a good idea and overstepping the privacy line.

That's why I believe that the posting of private information may be on the "secret board" but Serena herself is not behind it nor condones it.

MrsRef said...

I apologize for getting testy this morning. I misunderstood what was written. I will get off of my high horse now and take a chill. Thanks for understanding.

Linda said...

mrsref -

Everyone can have a bad day. You are allowed. (wink wink) Heck, when I'm married over 30 years I'm going to establish at least 2 days a year for me to let loose!

WOO HOO!

Linda

Fanny said...

"I e-mailed Serena once to ask her if anyone had every given her information about Tom's brother - the soccer coach. I saw the link to the college he coaches on TWoP."


I'm curious to know how long ago this was...I don't know Serena and I don't know if she's involved with the secret message board, but I'm not sure she would say anything in an email to someone she doesn't know.

I also wouldn't need Serena to tell me that this would be an envasion of privacy. I wouldn't even consider contacting family on either side.

Anonymous said...

I also wouldn't need Serena to tell me that this would be an envasion of privacy. I wouldn't even consider contacting family on either side.


OP:

I told her that I was curious and tempted to send a polite e-mail, but felt like it would be an invasion of privacy. She understood the curiousity of wanting to know "more" and "going right to the "source" but she agreed that it was not a good idea and overstepping the privacy line.

Baby Mama said...

And not to get too deep into this whole "GWOP going down the hill" thing & people crying foul on the whole "PennMommy" thing, but now GWOP posts a statement yesterday called "Tell it like it is"

"People have been complaining about "positive" comments not being posted and comments by "crazies" getting through.Please keep in mind that: comments do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the moderators; this is a volunteer effort and we all have other lives; and, sometimes, moderators get tired."

now tell me now that the shoe is on the other foot, who is doing damage control now??

lurkeyhere said...

Julie, Jodi and PennMommy are GROWN women with children. Forget what the Gosselin kids will think when they read these blogs someday, what will J, J and PM's OWN children think when they read them?
Can you imagine being a young teenager and coming upon this stuff that you're own MOTHER wrote about your relatives or neighbors? I would certainly not want to have to explain that to my kids. " Oh darling, mommy was being brave and defending Aunt Jodi by telling a world of strangers where Aunt Kate kept the potties when we went to their home for a family dinner."

Are they teaching their kids that you handle disputes with family and (former) friends by taking them to the internet? And are they okay with people doing that to them and their families?

nomoredrama said...

LOL! Yeah!!! Oh, and it's all "accidental" that those comments get deleted. Yeah, and the Pope is Lutheran.

Anonymous said...

I think now that GWoP is going to take a short break, you better batten down the hatches here! They'll need to go somewhere!

Thanks, ladies, as always, for doing a fine job.

MCB said...

Can you imagine being a young teenager and coming upon this stuff that you're own MOTHER wrote about your relatives or neighbors? I would certainly not want to have to explain that to my kids. "

Sadly, all we have to do is look to the Megan Meier case and see a living example of it.

Mom said...

Okay, I have to giggle a bit. The other mods need a rest? C'mon. I would say fine if they didn't slam poor K for being exhausted all the time.

I have one 19 mos old, I'm an active mom who works full time, I keep up the house, etc. and I'm lucky if I'm awake at 8:30pm, I'm so flippin' exhausted! I can't imagine having baby #2 much less 7 more.

And, "what is so magic about the number 8?" - absolutely nothing! If it were two sets of triplets or quads and twins, I believe this show would still exist. It's not that 8 is a magic number, but it is a big one!

Anonymous said...

Thank you lurkeyhere, I was wondering the same thing about Jodi's/Julie's/Pennmommy's blogs.

I can see that those blogs are already having reprecussions, as I actually found an anti-Julie blog this morning.

These blogs on blogs are getting out of control. Thank you Ninabell, nomoredrama and guenevire for having a site with a more balanced perspective!

Mom said...

MCB - I think of the Megan M case often - especially when I read such venomous comments. I think there are several, many anon posters, who are no better than the mom who created the false boy character. It's something many should really look at.

Thanks for the reminder. It's important to think of her.

Daisy said...

I think GWoP needs a break because they're busy over at Pennmommy's blog.

jennjenn said...

I think they need a break because they're exhausted with all their activities-- advocating for kids, tearing down the Gs and surfing online for places to post.

Anonymous said...

I am baffled, this website is linking to a website advocating that Jodi's sister be "bumped off." How on earth do you justify that as appropriate?

Nina Bell said...

Ok the blog mentioned on the top post had nothing to do with Julie.

nomoredrama said...

The post in question has been deleted. We agree with Anon that spouting hate in general is in poor taste.

The original post was in reference to a blog that was NOT a plug for the I hate Julie blog.

Anonymous said...

Thank you.

Betty said...

I'm not sure that you are aware or that you would care, but it might make a difference to know that I've heard that a couple of the GWoP admins are actually sick and one is out of town. That is why they have scaled back things.

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure that you are aware or that you would care, but it might make a difference to know that I've heard that a couple of the GWoP admins are actually sick and one is out of town. That is why they have scaled back things.

Yes, do we have to speculate (gleefully at that) on what may/may not be happening?

What if NinaBell's name were to be removed without any notification - would we like it any better if NoMoreDrama was accused of staging a coup for control? (No offense to the mods - just using an example)

In this case - there was a reason, so cannot we not take it at face value?

nomoredrama said...

Well, we had no idea that anyone was sick. How would we know? Of course, now that we know this we won't keep "snarking" but it's not fair to act like we're horrible people. We were clueless. I apologize to anyone offended.

Guinevere said...

I was wondering myself why none of the accounts of Kate treating people badly included the person being mistreated giving Kate what for in response. I know that sometimes with celebrities they will supposedly really misbehave and due to their wealth and fame, no one around them will say a peep about their behavior. But I don't think J&K rise to that level at this point, and it just seems strange to me that everyone around Kate supposedly just folds when she acts so incredibly awful. It does contribute to my doubt about some of these stories. (Of course, now that I say that, I don't doubt a story will appear that includes someone standing up to Kate - it should be interesting to see if anyone takes the bait, anyway.)

Anonymous said...

What happened to the post about Pennmommy being a fraud? I find it interesting how much all of this stuff has blown up in the past month.

Nina Bell said...

She e-mailed us and said she had deleted it.

Anonymous said...

But I don't think J&K rise to that level at this point, and it just seems strange to me that everyone around Kate supposedly just folds when she acts so incredibly awful.

This is just speculation - but I assume this is because the bulk of the people who have helped them have been from their Church or Kate's Father's Church. They probably just turned the other cheek.

I remember reading an article about forgiveness in a religious publication. Forgiveness doesn't mean you "give in" or concede. Forgiveness means you let go of the anger on your part - it has nothing to do with the other party involved. Forgiveness doesn't mean you have to become friends with your enemy - especially if he/she is someone who has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. You forgive the person - then go on. I am guessing the majority of people who have been burned by Jon and Kate have just moved on.
JMO

Tyra said...

Quote:
'I was wondering myself why none of the accounts of Kate treating people badly included the person being mistreated giving Kate what for in response.'

Yeah, it seems really strange to me, too. No doubt, Kate is a strong, demanding personality, and it doesn't surprise me that she's ruffled feathers. Maybe the people who stood up for themselves and were direct with Kate didn't hang onto resentment; they were able to let it go, and don't have a need to 'get' Kate four years later.

Kate (or anyone) should be held responsible for her behavior, but that accounting should be in direct immediate consequences, i.e., someone telling her 'Knock it off,' on the spot. They're adult people, right? If pennmommy is holding onto resentment to the point that she's blogging about yog(h)urt four years later, that's her problem.

GLO said...

From the Truth site:
"I will never understand those who have chosen this cause to pick up arms for. There are starving children in many areas of the world. There are blatant acts of genocide and wars that benefit politicians only. There are children being killed and kidnapped. There girls who are being denied education past puberty because the men need to maintain power within their society. Yet,...here are these rude and vitriolic posters talking about the injustice of opposing some of Jon and Kate Plus 8's parenting choices? Get a life people."

Replace "the injustice of opposing some of Jon and Kate Plus 8's parenting choices" with "the injustice of being insufficiently grateful and greedy," and the message back at Pennmommy is the same.

lurkeyhere said...

Why would someone continue to help people they feel are ungrateful and undeserving? Nobody was forcing PennMommy and the other volunteers. People who help others are getting something out of it themselves. It could be the joy of giving, the joy of being able to give,feeling needed, feeling superior, being a martyr. If you're not getting the satisfaction you need,then move on to someone more deserving.
I don't see the point of complaining about it years later.

I'm sure at first they needed help. Maybe they got more monetary help than they needed, but who decides that? Maybe they should have declined some of it, maybe they were just greedy, maybe they weren't thinking beyond "Oh My, we've got 8 little people to feed and take care of,how are we going to do it". People gave to Jon & Kate because they wanted to, for whatever the reasons were. If they gave to the detriment of themselves and their families, that was their decision. Maybe they got something they needed out of it.

Nobody, including J & K could have known they would have a successful tv show. It would be nice if they gave back now (and we don't know that they aren't), but I feel like some people are holding it against them that they are "successful" now. Don't most people give to others in the hope that they won't always need help?

Guinevere said...

This is just speculation - but I assume this is because the bulk of the people who have helped them have been from their Church or Kate's Father's Church. They probably just turned the other cheek.

I remember reading an article about forgiveness in a religious publication. Forgiveness doesn't mean you "give in" or concede. Forgiveness means you let go of the anger on your part - it has nothing to do with the other party involved. Forgiveness doesn't mean you have to become friends with your enemy - especially if he/she is someone who has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. You forgive the person - then go on. I am guessing the majority of people who have been burned by Jon and Kate have just moved on.
JMO


Well, I don't think "turning the other cheek" normally involves blabbing about how you've been wronged all over the internet. I don't know that there is any "majority" of people who have been "burned" by J&K, but assuming their have been, I'm surprised that we haven't heard any stories from people who told Kate off when she was incredibly rude to them (as she is so often purported to be with people). Just as some people find it curious that there are few accounts of positive interactions with J&K online, I find it curious that of all of the negative encounters we've read about, none of them involve the victim telling Kate off, and Kate's response. I am hardly an aggressive person, but if someone spoke to me the way people constantly claim that Kate has spoken to them (or their children!), you had better believe that I would have something to say. Is the entire state of Pennsylvania, save Kate Gosselin, abnormally meek?

Anonymous said...

Well, I don't think "turning the other cheek" normally involves blabbing about how you've been wronged all over the internet.

I wasn't referring to people like PennMommy, obviously the slight she described she did not let go.

I don't know that there is any "majority" of people who have been "burned" by J&K, but assuming their have been, I'm surprised that we haven't heard any stories from people who told Kate off when she was incredibly rude to them (as she is so often purported to be with people).

These people, are the ones I am referring to - the people she was rude to, just turning the other cheek.

It is not a far stretch to guess that there may have been people that volunteered, saw what whe was like and never returned.

Guinevere said...

It is not a far stretch to guess that there may have been people that volunteered, saw what whe was like and never returned.

I suppose. But if she is as awful as she is portrayed as being - I mean, awful and mean to people pretty much constantly - it seems like we would heard other stories as well; not just of people turning the other cheek, or blogging passive-aggressively about her sins. In fact, considering the way it's claimed Kate treats people, it would be strange to me that we haven't heard of anyone knocking her out, if she is as bad as is often reported. That's why I take these reports with a big grain of salt.

Anonymous said...

In fact, considering the way it's claimed Kate treats people, it would be strange to me that we haven't heard of anyone knocking her out, if she is as bad as is often reported.

If you are speaking of people who have come in contact with her - volunteers, I would think not because these people are people who were kind enough to who turned out to assist her to begin with. Not likely types to knock someone out.

Guinevere said...

Okay, but what about all of the fans who have supposedly approached Kate and been brushed off with incredible rudeness? What about the mother who claimed that Kate screamed at her daughter for inviting Mady and Cara over for ice cream? All of these people have just slunk away without a peep?

I don't mean to keep belaboring the point, but it just doesn't follow to me that Kate treats people as badly as some of the anonymous posters claim, and yet we never hear about any consequences. Kate is not insulated from "the real world" the way a celebrity - a real celebrity - might be. All I ever hear of is Kate treating strangers rudely and the strangers just taking it, or Kate mistreating various family members and the family members involved just taking it. It doesn't add up to me.

Anonymous said...

All I ever hear of is Kate treating strangers rudely and the strangers just taking it, or Kate mistreating various family members and the family members involved just taking it.

Well there are a lot of people here who congratulate the Gosselins for "taking the high rode" - it's too much to expect others to do the same?

tab said...

Guinevere said... In fact, considering the way it's claimed Kate treats people, it would be strange to me that we haven't heard of anyone knocking her out, if she is as bad as is often reported.
All I ever hear of is Kate treating strangers rudely and the strangers just taking it, or Kate mistreating various family members and the family members involved just taking it.


Where besides the movies do people knock other people out for treating them rudely? I don't think it inconceivable that Kate treats many people rudely and none of those people have knocked her out. If someone treats me rudely I just shake my head and walk away, isn't that what most people do? Why is that so hard to believe?

Meri said...

This family makes me think of the movie "Ordinary People". Kate reminds me so much of the Mary Tyler Moore character (the mother) who is so cold towards her child. The mother was at one time a loving mother but after the death of her beloved older son, she changes. As much as her younger son needs her love, she just can't give it or show it. The father in the movie is loving but his fault is that he is blind to the way his wife acts towards their son. One day, he finally opens his eyes and sees what's going on and for the sake of his son, asks his wife to leave. I think that one day, Jon will wake up and see that Kate is no longer the loving mother she once was. Her love didn't die with the death of a child but was instead killed by greed. I really do think that Jon seems like a loving, hands-on father just like in the movie. His fault is that he doesn't see how horribly Kate is treating their children, especially the boys and Mady. If Kate doesn't change, I think one day Jon will finally open his eyes too. He'll see the effect her coldness and meanness is having on their children and will ask her to leave.

Guinevere said...

Where besides the movies do people knock other people out for treating them rudely? I don't think it inconceivable that Kate treats many people rudely and none of those people have knocked her out. If someone treats me rudely I just shake my head and walk away, isn't that what most people do? Why is that so hard to believe?

Okay, I think some people are taking me too literally - I may have been exaggerating a bit with the "knock out" comment. But seriously, yes, I'm sure some people just shake their heads and walk away. But certainly not everyone. I still find it odd that there are so many examples of not just rude behavior, but bizarrely, over-the-top rudeness, and yet no accounts of anyone responding at all. It must be some aura that Kate has that cows everyone around her into submission.

Guinevere said...

meri, I really disagree with you. I certainly don't think Kate treats any of her kids horribly, and I think she is in fact a loving mother. Also, if you believe that some of the changes in the Gosselins' lifestyle are related to greed, I don't understand why you place all the blame for that on Kate.

Linda said...

I didn't write this over there, but I wanted to.

Yesterday's post from PennMommy is how the family gave public thanks but no private thanks to the helpers.

It made me think about the delivery of my second child. That pregnancy was super complicated and I was caring for my three year old at the time.

I wasn't one of these pregnant mothers who had a beautiful pregnancy and went into caring for a newborn with months of health and good sleeping.
I was quite ill and quite stressed going from infectious disease doctor to infectious disease doctor trying to figure out what was wrong with me and trying to make sure our unborn baby was not harmed by it all.

I was fortunate enough to have a group of friends/neighbors/family members who organized meals for us for about a month.

It was wonderful. Everyday, at about 5:00 p.m. the doorbell would ring and an angel would show up with dinner, dessert, and a hug. It's been 7 years, but I get all tearful when I think about their kindness.

It took me a long long time to properly thank all the people who helped us. Probably about 9 months.

But reading all of this backlash about the G family makes me think about that time in the life our
family.

What would I have felt if one of those wonderful angels had felt slighted by my delay and blogged (or spread rumors) and how I was ungrateful.

Truthfully, I was still sick and overwhelmed with a newborn and 3 year old.

I just don't understand why people who are supposedly helping can't cut the Gs some slack. For Pete's sake, she was on bed rest. She had twin 3 year olds. She was probably still in shock about how are we going to do all of this.

Have none of these people ever heard of ALTRUISM.

I have a friend whose house was burnt to the ground. We're talking arson. She was helped by strangers, family, friends, etc. A mutual friend of ours gave her a large check and was miffed when she did not receive a thank you note within a month.

Seriously.

A woman's house is deliberately set on fire. They loose all of their material possessions. And this person was miffed that she did not get a thank you card?

What is it about people who can't just help for the sake of helping.

When my friends have babies or have a death in the family, I try to make them a lasagne dinner and salad or something. I always write a note inside that says among other things... "Good friends don't make their friends write thank yous."

Sorry for my rambling.

Anonymous said...

I don't think it is so much about the Thank You aspect. I think it's about the way the volunteers were treated as well - as if Kate was doing them a favor.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kate demanded her volunteers bring their own "potty" chairs because how dare they think they would be allowed to use her bathroom.

JMO

Guinevere said...

I don't think it is so much about the Thank You aspect. I think it's about the way the volunteers were treated as well - as if Kate was doing them a favor.

I'm not sure we've seen any evidence of that. I know some people have taken issue with the way that Kate talks about the people who help the Gosselins, "So-and-so loves the kids and likes to do things for us"; while she sometimes expresses gratitude often she emphasizes how much the person *wants* to do this or that for their kids.

I remember being put off by that at first (it reminded me a bit of a relative, who is wont to say, "X person really likes me", which is just something I would never say; it kind of makes me wince when she does it). But then I thought about it a little differently. I think maybe J&K have concerns (perhaps not unreasonable ones) about people coming out of the woodwork and wanting to be part of their lives for the wrong reasons. So I think it's important to them that the people they let around their kids aren't in it for fame or starstruck by the sextuplets or otherwise influenced by anything other than a genuine appreciation for the kids as individuals. I'm sure that will strike those who think that J&K are exploiting their kids as ironic, but in that light, even Kate's apocryphal comment, "Nobody makes money off of my kids but me!" seems a little bit more understandable. At least to me.

Anonymous said...

So "julie the greatest" is now posting over at PennMommys blog. Blech.

meri said...

meri, I really disagree with you. I certainly don't think Kate treats any of her kids horribly, and I think she is in fact a loving mother. Also, if you believe that some of the changes in the Gosselins' lifestyle are related to greed, I don't understand why you place all the blame for that on Kate.

***

Honestly, I never get the feeling that Jon is being greedy. It might just be editing but he seems like he is truly involved with his kids. He plays with them and is very loving towards them. Kate TALKS about how she loves her kids but she doesn't SHOW it. I started feeling this way when she was always so concerned that all her kids look perfect even if it stood in the way of their fun. It just always struck me as superficial. Jon always wants to let them have fun but he always gives in to Kate. I think he's just like a lot of men and he wants to avoid drama.

These days, I really don't see evidence of Kate being loving towards her the boys or Mady. Once again, this could be editing but I used to think she was a loving mother but lately, it just seems like she ignores her kids. I was fed up with the show so I stopped watching for about a month but I broke down and watched the fourth of July episode. I was really bothered by how she just dismissed Joel and wouldn't let him help with the cake and used the girls as the excuse. I just didn't understand how a mother could act that way towards her own child.

When I first started watching the show, I thought Mady was an incredible brat but now I feel for her. Kate and Jon always speak about Mady in such a negative way that there's no way that she's not picking up on it.

anna said...

Julie seems to be blog hopping to "spread the news" about Jon and Kate. That woman is insane. She's posting at pennmommy's site now. She has lost all credibility. If I was Jodi, I would be so embarassed by her. However, Jodi is just as low class by going along with it!

Pepp said...

a funny article....

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/columnists/celia_rivenbark/story/585004.html

anya said...

That was cute!

From the writer: "Kate is very big on, If You Want Something Done Right, Do It Yourself. Just ask Jon."!!!

Only a few comments so far? That's strange. Snap to it people - time to advocate!!!

anya said...

Only a few comments so far? That's strange. Snap to it people - time to advocate!!!

Just to clarify in case it wasn't clear - I was referring to the # of comments on the newspaper's website.

Daisy said...

This morning's post by Penn Mommy really made me laugh. She listed about 25 things that the pro* Gosselin people have to answer before they can post on her blog. That just about elimantes anyone that disagrees with her.

This one really make me laugh. Penn Mommy said:

"11. Why do the Gosselin defenders feel the need to pad the internet with multiple identities to create the appearance of mass support?"

This has been done by the non-Gosselin defenders since day one of the show. I suspect that's part of the reason that Discovery Health had to shut down their forum.

Jenn said...

Julie is now posting on this site. I directed my feelings on her blog and what's happened to her directly via that site, since she does not allow comments on her own blog. This is what I said:

Julie: My biggest concern in all of this is how we are only getting one full 1/2 of the story (from frineds/relatives) and little snippets of J&K's side that is told through the eyes of a television editor.

I cannot, in good conscious, make a decision on who is "wrong" or "right" without all of the facts from both sides. The G's are choosing not to speak, and I can't change that. So, I remain on the fence.

That doesn't mean I think you are a liar. It doesn't mean I think you're being 100% accurate either.
I honestly believe there is a truth in the there somewhere in the middle.

The one thing I do not agree with is how all of the internal family issues have been made public. Family is family and who knows, maybe someday they could have reconciled. I would think it will be much harder to do that now, that all of this drama has been exploited.

I can understand a friend/helper of the G's creating a site because they don't feel appreciated (I don't agree with it, however) because they do not have any family ties. This is, of course, my opinion. And I also think that when you choose to blog, you open yourself up to criticism in all forms.

nomoredrama said...

ooo, I saw that. We should tell her "thanks" for the shout out. I have a few too that I'd love to answer...

1. GWoP? How is that a hate site?

Well, I don't know. Maybe the fact that they stalk, harass and are overall creepy. Maybe the fact that they take every opportunity they can insult J & K. Maybe because find fault with everything, make up lies (but I'm sure she's ok with that), and then move from site to site spreading their venom and talking points (which are 98% false). Maybe because they imply that the children are being abused, malnurished, and isolated from society. Oh, and maybe because of their cruel disdain for children they view as favored by Kate.

The rest of the 25 other questions are either repeats of GWoP talking points (which many have been refuted over and over again. No, the family is not still claiming to be financially destitute. No the family is not saying they need scholarships. Kate and Jon have drastically reduced their speaking schedule to be at home with the kids. And none of these so-called megabuck speaking engagements are filling the gaps.) or questions that are glaring in hypocrisy.

I love the point about starving children in the world. Take a hint and follow your own advice. The Gosselin kids, not starving.Not even close. The only thing that seems to be starving is her inner need for attention.

Daisy said...

nomoredrama said:

"The rest of the 25 other questions are either repeats of GWoP talking points (which many have been refuted over and over again."

This is just one of the reasons that I think Penn Mommy is a fraud.

anya said...

Jenn, I saw your post here and on the Penn Mommy site. Very diplomatic and well said. I think you speak for many of us. I doubt Julie will put her "listening ears" (Judge Judy phrase that I love) on, but a rational, well thought out post such as yours is the most we can do.

I am on the fence about the veracity of Penn Mommy. One day she seems semi-reasonable and then today she posts the GWoP talking points we have seen again and again (despite claiming that she has only known about the site a short time).

The thing is if Julie is "real" (not someone to admire, but truthful about who she is), why would she post on Penn Mommy's site if she didn't believe her to be who she claims to be?

Me thinks I am spending too much time trying to figure this stuff out!

Road2Madness said...

Curiousity got the best of me and I decided to check out the Pennmommy's website. All I can say is wow. The whole thing is just....odd and creepy. For most of them to be so invested into the lives' of Gosselin's family raises a red flag for me. After reading through the posts, I was left feeling unsettled. PennMommy doesnt seem to be who she claims to be with her redundant GWOP talking points, rudeness, and somewhat snarky writing tone. Conscending, if you will.

Irony run amuck here! Check out this post by Julie at Pennmommy's blog.
The viciousness of the supporters is almost laughable. I can't imagine watching a TV show and thinking that "I really know them". I guess many must feel unfufilled in their real life, so they make up these imaginary "relationships" with TV characters. It's very bizarre

Umm, okay, Julie. Pot. Kettle. Black. The same can be said for the Gosselins' nay-sayers at GWOP and PennMommy's. Just creepy!

nomoredrama said...

OMG, Anya! I love Judge Judy too! Maybe we are mysteriously drawn to bitchy women, haha!

nomoredrama said...

Not to mention the fact that Julie barely knows Kate. They weren't friends. Kate didn't call her to chat. So she can apply partially apply that statement to herself.

Jenn said...

anya said...
Jenn, I saw your post here and on the Penn Mommy site. Very diplomatic and well said.


Thanks Anya! I was feeling quite diplomatic this morning. :)

Nancy said...

Is that really Julie on the PennMommy site?? I have not seen anything posted by her at GWoP lately ........

nomoredrama said...

It's definitely her, she posted in the thread about the article on GWoP I think...the one about the neighbors.

anya said...

nomoredrama said...
OMG, Anya! I love Judge Judy too! Maybe we are mysteriously drawn to bitchy women, haha!


I am starting to think that's true!

I'd love to haul some of these internet J&K harassers in front of Judy. She would put them in their place in no time!

nomoredrama said...

me TOO Anya! Me Too...what she would do to their "arguments' and theories in 10 seconds flat....I'd literally pay money to see it.

Karen said...

Daisy said...
This morning's post by Penn Mommy really made me laugh. She listed about 25 things that the pro* Gosselin people have to answer before they can post on her blog. That just about elimantes anyone that disagrees with her.


I don't like pennmommy blog really but you are misrepresenting what todays post was. I went to read it based on what you said found myself in confusion about which post we were reading. The questions look like things she asked when she was answering questions from us. Did she edit the post saying you can't post without answering?


Nancy said...
Is that really Julie on the PennMommy site?? I have not seen anything posted by her at GWoP lately ........

Yes I think so.


What would I have felt if one of those wonderful angels had felt slighted by my delay and blogged (or spread rumors) and how I was ungrateful.

Its not the same. If I have help I make the thank you personal immediately like you probably do. I get a feeling about Kate being done with you when you are spent. My opinon only. Jon and Kate went on tv and said they had no help at all.

nomoredrama said...

Kate and Jon can only walk on people that allow themselves to be walked on. It's the harsh reality of life, not just with them. Generally (and I'm not talking about extreme cases such as forced sexual encounters), when someone "takes advantage" it's because they've been given permission (unconsciously) to do the taking advantage. I can't continue to use someone over and over if they don't continue to come. I'm not blaming the victim. I don't know that, in this situation, there is a victim.

So either Kate is around the largest group of passive, 'can't say no', women in the world or she has magical powers that rip people of their will to speak and even live for themselves.

IMO, I don't think either is true. I think she and Jodi had a falling out and that this Penn Mommy person is one of a few volunteers who didn't think appreciation for them was enough. Fair enough. But I hardly think they can generalize that to everyone Kate comes in contact with. Unless, again, everyone she comes into contact with is a weak-willed individual with no sense of self. (Not saying this about Jodi or Penn Mommy, I'm using an extreme example to make a point)

Daisy said...

Your right Karen and I'm sorry. After people started answerting questions I realized I read it wrong. I'm sorry for misleading you.

Linda said...

Karen,

I wrote:

What would I have felt if one of those wonderful angels had felt slighted by my delay and blogged (or spread rumors) and how I was ungrateful.

And then you responded:

Its not the same. If I have help I make the thank you personal immediately like you probably do. I get a feeling about Kate being done with you when you are spent. My opinon only. Jon and Kate went on tv and said they had no help at all.

==================


Do you recall (in general) which episodes those were in which they said they did/do it all themselves? (Sometimes I feel like I watch a different show than other people do.)

I recall them always acknowledging the volunteers who helped bathe, burp, change the babies as well as those who've always come in to fold laundry,etc.

AgainAnonymous said...

nomoredrama,

I've just realized I've essentially repeated your assessment of the latest version of "20 ...no, 25... Questions" in the Open Discussion thread above. Good assessment, by the way. ;)

There is just something essentially tacky about the "truth" blogs.

PM I choose to just see as a disgruntled volunteer who has little to do with anything that's going on currently in the Gosselins' lives (except to jump on the attention-seeking, 15-minutes-of-fame bandwagon herself).

Once she got past the "yogurt" episode, she began speaking in general terms ("EVERYONE in the Gosselins' family and inner circle has been alienated") and her own mathematical and logical missteps..."How do YOU know we haven't done anything to help? How do YOU know we haven't said anything to Kate and Jon about our concerns?"

Gratuitous questions, at the very least.

Answer:

Uh, well...because you (or Jodi or Julie) never SAID you did until recently pressed on the point; for example, "Why aren't you talking DIRECTLY to the people who've wronged you?"..."But how do you know we HAVEN'T?"

How is that answering a question?

I think Julie is Jodi's sister, blah, blah, blah, but, for the life of me, I don't see what Kate and Jon Gosselin ever said in public that would be considered "treating Jodi badly" and, therefore, constitute a need to "defend" her honor?

Because they called her a softy for giving the kids the gum?

Oh, that's right something about "more was said than was on the show." Okayyyy.
Again, no details.

There are ALWAYS two sides to a story, and, like many of you here, I have little patience for posters who can't seem to understand why some viewers/posters would want to weigh what they see and hear using their own judgement and not simply jump on the bandwagon themselves.

anya said...

nomoredrama said...
"So either Kate is around the largest group of passive, 'can't say no', women in the world or she has magical powers that rip people of their will to speak and even live for themselves.

IMO, I don't think either is true."


I agree completely with this. I *get* that Kate has a strong personality that may intimidate some, but the scale of her abuses and the number of people involved really stretches credibility. And non of these little church mice feel they can come forward until years later and then they choose to tell their "stories" as anonymous internet bloggers?!

Anonymous said...

My one question is, where are the positive postings from people who personally know Jon & Kate? The ones that I have read are negative.

Daisy said...

There were positive posts when the show first started. The 2 friends that I read about said that the Gosselins had asked them to stop posting so out of respect for them the friends stopped.

This was when the trolls and negative first started. I'm assuming J&K saw what was starting and decided to keep quiet about everything then. I respect them for that.

Daisy said...

This was just posted on Penn Mommy's blog by alwaysafriendforlife.

"I have thought long and hard about posting here. But I really just couldn't take this nonsense any longer. I have remained silent for too long because I was asked to. I am a close friend of Kate's. I have known her for well over 10 years. I am a nurse. Yes we are real RN's even though we graduated from a diploma program.

Many of you are off base with your accusations. Kate is a good wife, mother and friend. Jon is a good husband, father and friend. Yes they have faults but so do I.

They have many friends. You just don't see or hear from us because we are asked to keep quiet. We celebrate holidays with them, go out to dinner and have an all around good time when we are together. We truly enjoy each others company.

I know that Kate will be upset with me that I took the time to create this account so that I could post here. She doesn't want any of us to play into your feeding frenzy. But I felt like this needed to be said.

I am not sure who you are Penn Mommy but I know you were never really in our inner circle and I am wondering about the volunteer thing. You really don't give enough info for us to tell. This must be your 15 minutes of fame. Enjoy it.

This will be my last post. I am not answering any questions because you would twist my words and wouldn’t believe me anyway. Well, I will answer this question. Yes they are in pre-school. You see, I will answer that because I can. I don’t think Penn Mommy can."

September 11, 2008 5:29 PM

I read this after I made the above post. I was quite surprised to see this after I had made the post about friend's being asked to stop posting.

Anonymous said...

http://i-met-the-gosselins.blogspot.com/2008/09/shannon-v.html This is a recent positive story.

Anonymous said...

What I mean was knowing the Gosselins personally, not meeting them at social settings.

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