Why, if someone dare not fawn all over the Gosselins, are they immediately put in the GWOP group. Is is possible that not everyone in the good old USA love, love, love this family? Is it possible that this guy actually watched a few episodes and came to his conclusions on his own? Did the PR firm forget to buy a full page ad in their paper?
The people that hate Jon and Kate will agree entirely, the people that love them will think he is Julie's alias--part of a big conspiracy by the GWOP group. I think he made some valid points, but it is obvious he doesn't like the show. It is his opinion, so I don't see the need to trash him.
Why, if someone dare not fawn all over the Gosselins, are they immediately put in the GWOP group. Is is possible that not everyone in the good old USA love, love, love this family? Is it possible that this guy actually watched a few episodes and came to his conclusions on his own? Did the PR firm forget to buy a full page ad in their paper?
What does the PR firm have to do with it? Are you insinuating that if he did like the show, it would only be because TLC had paid for advertising?
I think there are people who like the show and people who don't (many of the latter, though, still watch it and spend countless hours a day talking about it, strangely enough). I suppose he could have come to the conclusions he did on his own; they just aren't very nuanced or sophisticated thoughts. But, it's just a TV show, not German philosophy, so I guess that's okay.
It is his opinion, so I don't see the need to trash him.
I don't feel the need to trash him but at the same time the whole thing is a bit boring to me, since his points lack originality, to say the least. I posted the article originally because several posters sent it in; otherwise, I wouldn't feel the need to really talk about it. But that's just me.
Guin, I didn't mean you were trashing him. But at the end of the last post people started in about his writing style, etc. I just wonder if his style would be critiqued if his article had been a glowing endorsement. I just want to look at it a little more objectively.
What does the PR firm have to do with it? There were two negative articles in the NE, now they are featured in an ad in the NE. Do you think the PR firm had anything to do with that? (sort of like blatant product placement) And if the article was so boring to you, why did you take the time to post about it and ask for discussion?
Guin, Also, I wanted to agree with you that it would be hard to have a really nuanced evaluation of this show. I do think it is entertainment, not food for deep thought.
And Guin: Since when do you have to be sophisticated and nuanced to have a "meaningful and cohesive" thought? They are my big words for the day - your idols J & K don't appear to have very many sophisticated thoughts either.
Guinevere said..."I don't feel the need to trash him but at the same time the whole thing is a bit boring to me, since his points lack originality, to say the least.
Exactly. He's entitled to his opinion and I am entitled to believe he is amateurish and dull. Maybe I am just spoiled. My local newspaper has an excellent t.v. critic. I have no idea if he likes J&K, but I know he could churn out an interesting article on them.
By the way, for anyone questioning this man's taste, he apparently thought that Cloris Leachman was "sassy, brassy" and entertaining on her recent stint on Dancing with the Stars.
News flash: IMO she was awful. And she was quite rude and acted like a bitch. I guess that's considered endearing at 82, but the rest of us girls - the under 80 set - better learn to mind our p's and q's - right?! That means you Kate!
I didn't mean you were trashing him. But at the end of the last post people started in about his writing style, etc. I just wonder if his style would be critiqued if his article had been a glowing endorsement.
Probably not. But I also don't think his writing style would be critiqued if he had anything to say we haven't all heard a thousand times before. Now, that's not necessarily his fault, assuming he did come to these conclusions on his own and didn't just google Gosselin discussion groups and copy and paste the prevailing thoughts at GWoP.
What does the PR firm have to do with it? There were two negative articles in the NE, now they are featured in an ad in the NE. Do you think the PR firm had anything to do with that? (sort of like blatant product placement) And if the article was so boring to you, why did you take the time to post about it and ask for discussion?
I am far from an expert, but my understanding was the the PR firm is in the hire of the Gosselins. TLC would be responsible for advertising, I would imagine. So I don't know that the two would be related.
Are you suggested that the negative articles in the NE were a way to force TLC to advertise with them?
As to your last question, I like to argue. You got a problem with that?
Guin, Also, I wanted to agree with you that it would be hard to have a really nuanced evaluation of this show. I do think it is entertainment, not food for deep thought.
I think it's possible to have a thoughtful discussion about the issues surrounding the show, especially in relation to privacy. I don't personally feel the same about the "freebies" - once that gets brought up, I'm afraid I tend to dismiss the writer as jealous. I can't come up with a good reason why anyone would care unless they are jealous.
I do watch the show for entertainment, and discuss the show for entertainment. I find that it's by and large "the other side" who believes they have a "mission" to get the "truth" out. Though of course there are people who dislike the show and the Gosselins who don't espouse any higher purpose. I would think most of those people would just stop watching, though.
And Guin: Since when do you have to be sophisticated and nuanced to have a "meaningful and cohesive" thought? They are my big words for the day - your idols J & K don't appear to have very many sophisticated thoughts either.
As I explained above, it would just have been nice had the article had something new to add.
J&K are not my "idols", by the way. Unlike some people, I do not feel the need to either love or hate people that I do not even know. I would agree that neither of them appear to be deep or sophistcated thinkers (not that I think either of them is stupid).
By the way, for anyone questioning this man's taste, he apparently thought that Cloris Leachman was "sassy, brassy" and entertaining on her recent stint on Dancing with the Stars.
News flash: IMO she was awful. And she was quite rude and acted like a bitch. I guess that's considered endearing at 82, but the rest of us girls - the under 80 set - better learn to mind our p's and q's - right?! That means you Kate!
OMG, if he liked Cloris Leachman on DWTS, I think it's safe to say that he and I have absolutely nothing in common. And I agree, being over 80 does not magically make it cute when you act like an ass. Though I've heard bad things about Leachman's personality for years, so I don't think her hijinks were anything new.
floridamom- I can only assume you comments are in relation to mine. As you know this is a blog where people express opinions and mine is exactly as I stated it to be. I've spent the day reviewing manuscripts for publishing so maybe I'm in crtique mode. Others were discussing the article and I posted exactly what I took from it.
Gag Me said...And Guin: Since when do you have to be sophisticated and nuanced to have a "meaningful and cohesive" thought? They are my big words for the day - your idols J & K don't appear to have very many sophisticated thoughts either
Agree, let's dumb it down for the masses. No nuanced discussion whatsoever! That's for the big brains who think they are so much better than everyone else - right?
And you are so right, it's clear that J&K are not "sophisticated people." Who do they think they are anyway??? Why we all know Kate should have just stayed in the trailer park from where she came...
I would also like to mention that this article was submitted several times by people with screen names that never posted here. Obviously that was done in order to "rub it into someone's face" in my opinion. However, on this blog we are not afraid to discuss whatever is going on in the Gosselin world. Positive or negative. Bring it on. We will discuss it. We won't just delete it and have it disappear like it never happened or did not exist.
SamanthaNC, I wasn't singling your post out. There were several in the same vain. I like the show, I watch the show. He did make valid, if unoringinal posts. But, as has been stated--maybe he isn't enthralled by the cyerworld of the Gosselins. I don't agree with him that the show needs to come to an end. I don't feel the children will be permanently harmed any more than they would with parents constantly struggling to make ends meet and arguing over finances. All, I was saying, was that I have read equally vapid articles--with nothing original in them--praising the show. No one wants these authors journalistic creditials. IMO
floridamom said...All, I was saying, was that I have read equally vapid articles--with nothing original in them--praising the show. No one wants these authors journalistic creditials. IMO
Fair enough. You make a solid point.
At the end of the day, I think I prefer reading the thoughts of the posters here much more than a random reviewer who might have seen a few episodes.
And we do have a quite a few here who are far from being on the "Gosselin bandwagon", who I respect and enjoy reading. These people tend to be thoughtful, willing to look at issues from more than one side and generally respectful in how they approach discussion. You guys know who you are.
All, I was saying, was that I have read equally vapid articles--with nothing original in them--praising the show
I agree with you here. There were a lot in the last several months. It was obvious that it was part of a whole publicity campaign. I think everyone was pretty well aware of that. There were so many that I quit posting about them. But it seemed to push a few buttons out in the Gosselin blogosphere.
After reading his article, it felt like reading some of the milder posts over at GWOP. I see alot of comments at his actual article site came from Gwopers.
It was kind of interesting reading an article by an actual man and not a "SHIM" though.
Anya,
you geriatric hater you :) lol j/k Cloris was annoying.
As an ex-fan of the show and Boston area native, I was glad to see the Herald article. For fear of being branded as a jealous "GWOPer" let me just say that I and my children have been able to enjoy many of life's extras (thanks to my husband's hard work) all while being able to stay home with my children. However, when I watch the episodes that center around freebies, what comes to mind is a feeling of discomfort. Hard to describe but very much like the feeling I get when I hear of the exorbitant severance packages awarded to corporate executives who have run their businesses into the ground. These people take all they can get with a lack respect paid to their employees (in the Gosselin's case the children) or the company's shareholders (those that have donated time and monetary gifts to the family). I guess what makes it all feel so unsettling is at the core of both is a level of greed and selfishness that I feel unacceptable.
Hard to describe but very much like the feeling I get when I hear of the exorbitant severance packages awarded to corporate executives who have run their businesses into the ground. These people take all they can get with a lack respect paid to their employees (in the Gosselin's case the children) or the company's shareholders (those that have donated time and monetary gifts to the family). I guess what makes it all feel so unsettling is at the core of both is a level of greed and selfishness that I feel unacceptable.
That's an interesting analogy, but it doesn't quite work for me. First of all, in the case of corporate executives, what they are given in severance is so much more than the Gosselins make I don't see them as comparable. Second, the executives are taking that money out of the hands of the stockholders and the employees below them - I don't think you can say the same about J&K. By accepting a free vacation, I don't think they are taking anything that would've been offered to someone else (presumably someone more deserving) otherwise.
Finally, I don't see the equivalency between thought that donated to the Gosselins and shareholders in a company. People who gave to the Gosselins did so of their own free will, and with the only expected reward being the feeling that doing good for others gives you. The Gosselins don't "owe" these people anything except for gratitude. Stockholders buy stock with the expectation of a financial reward, and have reason to be upset when the company they've invested in is mismanaged and they lose money as a result.
Quoting from the article: If we’re rewarding people on the basis of fertility, shouldn’t the prizes go to the least blessed?
Ah, they were the least blessed fertility wise. They had to have help to get those kids. Being one of the less fertile-ly blessed myself, I find that statement to be sort of cruel. But the fact that I'm not going to have fertility treatments doesn't make my story more interesting to people. All those kids and how two parents manage is interesting. Regardless of money.
Do I really care what some man wrote in some paper? The real news must be slacking. It's the same beating of the same old drum but with a different face with the same issues. He has a right to his journalistic views and IMO feel he just used information already is being talked about surrounding the G's. It's like thanks for your insight but it doesn't mean I'll be changing my mind because you had to fill space in your newspaper.
You know, Kelley, I thought the same thing - to refer to the Gosselins' "fertility" twice in the same short article seemed insensitive if not ignorant. It did not improve my opinion of the author much.
I do get your points but what I want to stress is that the feeling came before the analogy. Just had no other way to put it to words. If they would just be upfront with being in a much better position financially than when the show began, perhaps I would not feel so negatively towards them. If they stop taking "love offerings" at speaking engagements (and maybe they already have)and stop offering budget tips when they appear on national talk shows and in magazines as if they live under the same constraints as the average family this would be a start. It would be great to see them do more for others in need now that their needs are being met.
Anonymous, I was unable to approve your recent message because we do not allow anonymous comments. Please pick a user name and repost, so that we can discuss the heretofore unexamined issue of the Gosselins' "greed".
I do get your points but what I want to stress is that the feeling came before the analogy. Just had no other way to put it to words. If they would just be upfront with being in a much better position financially than when the show began, perhaps I would not feel so negatively towards them. If they stop taking "love offerings" at speaking engagements (and maybe they already have)and stop offering budget tips when they appear on national talk shows and in magazines as if they live under the same constraints as the average family this would be a start. It would be great to see them do more for others in need now that their needs are being met.
Ruthe, I think if the show gives you a bad feeling, you are right not to watch it any more. There's no point in watching a TV show that's meant to be entertaining if it upsets you! Years ago I had to stop watching "Melrose Place" because I realized I was actually angry at the end of the episode; the hijinks of the characters actually really got to me!
I don't think that the Gosselins should stop taking "love offerings" if they are in lieu of speaker fees at speaking engagements. From everything I've heard, love offerings are standard practice and have nothing to do with the financial situation of the speaker. I can see how hearing budget tips would annoy you, but some people may still find them useful, and even if the Gosselins don't *have* to be frugal any more, that doesn't mean they aren't. It's like, would you not want budgeting tips from Suze Orman because she's rich?
Finally, I just don't feel that *I* have the right to tell anyone, much less a total stranger, how much or how little they should be helping others. That's definitely a case where I feel like I should worry about my ownself and let other people do what they are going to do. In any case, I think the Gosselins are kind of damned if they do and damned if they don't, because we don't *know* what they give to charity, but any time we do see examples of charitable donations on their parts (the check to the Ronald McDonald house, the garage sale), people scream damage control.
You guys have said each and every thing on my mind regarding this article! I really appreciate how this blog does allow balance-- as we all know GWOP does not give creedence to anything that resembles positive Gosselin thinking. Its unfortunate so many people feel it necessary to look down on Jon and Kate for their decisions... makes me sad for how their 'real lives' must be. For my part, again, I feel they are innocent until PROVEN guilty-- that means in an article from someone who does not review TV shows (or approve of Cloris! LOL!)
Perhaps the writer was contacted by one of the GWOP posters and they are eager to share his article with everyone? Perhaps he came to his conclusions all by himself, without their help? Who knows what the story behind the story is.
The reality is that some people love the show, some people hate it and some, like me, are in the middle. I don't like Kate, I do like Jon some of the time but I think all of those children are wonderful all of the time and that's why I watch it.
It may have been something approaching reality in the beginning but now it's entertainment and there's nothing wrong with that.
Guinevere- you touched on something that bothers me more and more as time goes on-- the fact that so many seem to just loathe this show, yet still tune in and give not only ratings, but ad dollars and publicity. I have a few shows I just can't stomach (like the Dr 90210 stuff or a lot of the crazy TLC shows with half ton people)... I sometimes catch a few minutes then just have to walk away.
Its personal responsibility-- if you really wanted to advocate for the kids (like really, truly) then watching and promoting the show is the last thing you would do.
That being said, it also irks me how many see the fact that they "ZOMG stopped watching months ago but can't wait for the recap because they are just SOO funny and wonderful." How is that hurting the Gosselins? How is it bad for them to have more people talking about them and thinking about them? (Psst-- the answer is that it doesn't!)
I guess my point is that every one of us makes choices that are right for us. Like Guin and many others have said, if you don't like it then don't watch it. End of story.
Last post and I promise I won't take up any more of your time. Luckily we know in advance what the upcoming episodes are about and no, I have not and will not watch the cali/hawaii vacation episodes. The yard sale might be fun though. Concerning the lack of originality of the contents of the Herald article how about the constant rehash of the "same old, same old" articles written about the Gosselins. In addition, every budget tip Kate gives i.e. coupon clipping, brown bagging and layaway are anything but original. Now I far as I know, the love offerings at speaking engagements are in addition to their agreed upon speaking fees and paid travel expenses but if you have attended one and know differently then so be it. Lastly, concerning any and all chartible donations I feel they are morally compelled to give because "to much is given, much is expected" or because they are Christians, "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you". Beyond that I feel it is far better to be damned if you do than if you don't.
Thanks for the link. I had just seen this. It is interesting that the number of positive articles in major magazines and newspapers as well major network shows such as GMA and Regis and Kelly all featured this family, but this article in the Reading on line newspaper and the one in the Boston paper is the hot topic of discussion. When we featured posts regarding these other major articles, we couldn't drum up any interest from those people that dislike that family.
And Gwinevere, I agree insensitive and ignorant and mostly unnecessary commentary that really didn't do much for his article. Glad I wasn't just being overly sensitve due to my personal situaton.
Cincymom here: I must be doing something wrong. Everytime I try to post it doesn't recognize me.
I think the article was interesting if only for the fact that a national publication with respect took a moment to question the value of the show. All others (Today Show, Regis & Kelly, Bonnie Hunt, 700 Club) have been "swimmingly" non-judgmental about anything.
Also--I saw the Hayes family on GMA today and thought how interesting their appearance was compared to J&K. The dad ignored the interviewer several times to address the needs of his kids. And the mom said they aren't special, just ordinary. On the other hand, I remember a quote (remind me if I'm wrong) from Kate that said "life will never be the same. We'll always have to deal with/ be pointed at (can't remember) as the family with sextuplets. I can't help but think the McCoys (horribly wrong spelling) and the Dilleys seem to have done quite a GREAT job to remind their kids and themselves that they are just like others.
STILL CAN'T RESPOND WITH MY ACCOUNT! HELP!!! Anyway I am Cincymom and responding to:
Nina Bell said... Cincymom
None of those other publications I mentioned are respectful?
Why do we need to question the value of the show? It is entertainment, just like other shows. ___________________ I just REALLY want to say it is great this site allows all points and doesn't edit to its advantage. How great people can talk and respond with different opinions.
Anyway, I don't think the other pubs aren't respectful--I'm just saying it was all quite "PC."
Hi Jon & Kate--what beautiful children--how did you feel when you found out you were having sextuplets? How do you handle the monthly budget? How do you do it?
There weren't any hard questions about "how does this affect the kids?" or "how do you think making the choice to bring in cameras has affected your family?
I don't think it has to all be negative but to not acknowledge there are some pluses/ minuses for the choices is a bit simpleton.
Truly--I don't know what I would have chosen had I been in their spot. Never once questioned the reproductive choice. Just have thought at some point pluses/minuses of the camera situation would be inevitably discussed.
Not sure what is wrong with your account but I will post as long as you let us know your screen name. You can type your screen name in under Name/URL also.
I understand what you are saying. It would be great if one writer could perhaps show both sides in one article. Does anyone recall any magazine or newspaper doing this?
I think he made some valid points, but it is obvious he doesn't like the show. It is his opinion, so I don't see the need to trash him.
Does anyone remember the Washington Post article a few months back? That poor woman was berated by the anti's. These people questioned her ethics and called her "irresponsible" for having a positive opinion of a REALITY SHOW. There were comments from people who were going out of their way to find out who she was and threatening to write letters to her boss declaring her an "incompetent journalist". The WP actually had to close comments presumably because this person was being harrassed.
What little bit of critism this man got for the BH article was tame in comparison.
Yet another article this time from the Reading Eagle, hometown paper.
http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=114198
Well, being one of the sheeple and all, I'm sure my opinion will be taken with a grain of salt, but the writer is quite the crank, isn't he? Jon and Kate are dull, and the kids have no personalities? I objected to the earlier article on basis of the fact that it was just a rehash of anti-Gosselin talking points. But this seems to be too far in the other direction, coming with criticisms I've never heard before. J&K are boring? That's not something I've even heard the haters say.
The kids don't have distinct personalities? I wonder if he's not a regular viewer; it took me a while to be able to tell the little ones apart and get a sense of each one's personality. But that doesn't mean they don't have personalities.
Whatever. Maybe because I've heard a few things about that paper in relation to the Gosselins, I get the slight sense of axe grinding. Or maybe he really finds the show boring. No skin off of my nose if he does.
I would be happy to read an article that wasn't a PR puff piece or a bitter hit job. I'm not sure that the New Yorker will be calling any day now, though. To the "outside world", J&K+8 is light entertainment, a cute basic cable television show. We may think it's worthy of dissection, but I'm not sure an actual journalist would agree.
Last post and I promise I won't take up any more of your time.
Ruthe, you're not taking up my time. This is a discussion board, so it's good to have people who want to discuss things!
In addition, every budget tip Kate gives i.e. coupon clipping, brown bagging and layaway are anything but original.
You may well be right. Honestly, I haven't paid much attention to what she has to say on the subject (maybe I should; I am sooo bad with money!). As I said, I could see it being irritating to have Kate Gosselin held up as some sort of money-saving guru, but ultimately, I don't see it as a big deal, or really related to the issues that some people have with Kate's personality. If a talk show wants to book her and have her talk about that stuff, you can watch it or not watch it. It's like people who get so worked up about Rachael Ray and her cooking and her show, etc. You don't like it, don't watch. Again, I understand that when you don't like a personality or don't think that they have the authority to speak on a particular subject, it can be annoying, but beyond that I don't see getting too worked up about it (I'm not saying you are, Ruthe).
Now I far as I know, the love offerings at speaking engagements are in addition to their agreed upon speaking fees and paid travel expenses but if you have attended one and know differently then so be it.
No, I haven't attended an appearance. I'm only going by what numerous people have said about love offerings being something that are collected in church in lieu of a speaker's fee. I have not heard anyone speak knowledgably to the contrary.
Lastly, concerning any and all chartible donations I feel they are morally compelled to give because "to much is given, much is expected" or because they are Christians, "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you". Beyond that I feel it is far better to be damned if you do than if you don't.
But you don't know that they don't give, right? So you may in fact be damning them unfairly. Just a thought.
I chalk up Kate to being a spokesperson for Kmart as the stupidity of television. I'm guessing Kate just sees it as a job. Even us poor people hate Kmart. Blech!! I avoid that store as much as possible and it's not cheap!
Also a thought on the giving back. Since J&K are devout, they probably tithe a 10th of their income to their church. Sorry, if that's been mentioned before.
First time poster but I wanted to say that I appreciate the overall tone of this blog- it leans towards more common sense posting (whether it’s positive or negative), and away from the hyperbole you see at places like GWOP. I just couldn’t stand another ‘My heart BROKE…” I LOVE these PRECIOUS children…” “The ABUSE that I saw tonight made me WEEP…” type of post. It’s just so ridiculous.
I watch the show because it’s interesting, and I’m nosy, and I like seeing how other families live- down to the most mundane details. The kids are funny, Kate has a dry sense of humor that I appreciate, and I find Jon & Kate’s interactions sometimes really sweet and sometimes really awful.
I do have some concerns about the fairness of the situation in regards to the money- I live in LA, and know several parents who have kids that are involved in modeling and/or acting, and so you do hear parents talking about their kids’ “Coogan”- as in “I always take out $20 for gas for each audition, and he gets $20 to spend the way he wants, but the rest goes into his Coogan.” I do wish that this law extended to kids on reality shows, so that each of the Gosselin kids came out of this with a guaranteed bank account, and that this was not left up to K&J’s discretion.
That aside, I do feel like so much of the criticism comes from the fact that what the G’s are doing is not mainstream or normal- that somehow this show would be more acceptable to the critics if Jon had kept his IT job and they didn’t travel as much, and didn’t get to sit in club seats for Phillies games or be on the cover of magaines.
There are tons of kids who are being raised in situations that are not status quo. There are families who homeschool their kids, families that live in an RV and travel round the country, families that live in log cabins in the middle of the wilderness with no running water or electricity. I guess I just add the Gosselins to the list of people who are doing things differently, and I don’t think that automatically means that their kids are screwed. God knows that plenty of screwed up kids come out of totally “normal” family situations.
So I’ll keep watching till I’m not entertained, have a little niggling voice that says that the kids should be compensated individually, and if I become disgusted or bored----Delete Season Pass takes care of that in one click of my remote.
Because I've been kinda rough on other threads I was gonna come in here and sing Baa Baa black sheep. Just as a joke. Then I thought about being politically correct. I thought well someone might feel I am racist, or PETA might whip me feeling I was picking on animals. Quinevere might feel I was being rude as she now identifies herself as a sheeple LOL . Or worse yet that I need singing lessons.
My point, my meds are kicking in and it is about time LOL. When most people, like myself, write on blogs, they tend to at least be politically correct. Some are not, but decent people tend to have a little bit of politeness. This article contained no news worthy info, cited nothing in particular, and was rude while picking on a medical issue with Kate, and I'm not a J&K fan. The only thing I learned is this paper still dislikes this family alot. If they have a factual reason to dislike them not an emotional one we should see it. If they do a good deed we should see that as well.
Cincymom here: I must be doing something wrong. Everytime I try to post it doesn't recognize me.
Also--I saw the Hayes family on GMA today and thought how interesting their appearance was compared to J&K. The dad ignored the interviewer several times to address the needs of his kids. And the mom said they aren't special, just ordinary. On the other hand, I remember a quote (remind me if I'm wrong) from Kate that said "life will never be the same. We'll always have to deal with/ be pointed at (can't remember) as the family with sextuplets. I can't help but think the McCoys (horribly wrong spelling) and the Dilleys seem to have done quite a GREAT job to remind their kids and themselves that they are just like others.
OT, I guess, but the Hayes family *appears* to be nice, normal, and happy. With 2 more kids and one of those being disabled, mom wasn't sitting around lamenting about how exhausted she was! Fun to watch, for now. I only hope TLC doesn't go overboard and Gosselinize them!
I watched the Hayes family too. It reminded me very much of the "living with twins and sextuplets" documentaries of the Gs years ago.
My prediction is things will change drastically for this family as well - their financial freedom.
Whenever I hear K say she's exhausted, I dismiss it almost immediately. Because truth of the matter be told, it's the editing. SURE, she says it, maybe a few times a day, maybe more. The editors have definitely honed in on it and now we notice it - alhtough I don't notice it as much lately.
With 10 kids, there is no doubt that Mom Hayes is indeed exhausted!
It's interesting...if a postive article comes out- GWOP says "they never watch the show" if a negative one "Yeah,their ship is sinking". For this blog it is similar.. a positive one " Glad others see the positive also"...a negative one "oh, they must read GWOP and never see the show" I feel bad for anybody who writes anything in the media about this family anymore. They are usually bombarded with letters from angry people from both sides. It's almost a competition betwen this blog and GWOP when the J&K get press. Is it positive or negative? Did we win or did they? It's getting crazy.
Whenever I see Kate (definitely my least favorite person on the show) in the early special on surviving sextuplets and twins, I am always surprised at how normal and not-too-diva she seems. Not too much like the Kate you see today.
Maybe Figure 8 or TLC originally thought that emphasizing the "crazy" part of Kate would drive ratings. And it has.
I don't like the way she behaves most of the time but many others do. TLC is counting on the fact that when Kate's on camera it's not boring.
I do have some concerns about the fairness of the situation in regards to the money- I live in LA, and know several parents who have kids that are involved in modeling and/or acting, and so you do hear parents talking about their kids’ “Coogan”- as in “I always take out $20 for gas for each audition, and he gets $20 to spend the way he wants, but the rest goes into his Coogan.” I do wish that this law extended to kids on reality shows, so that each of the Gosselin kids came out of this with a guaranteed bank account, and that this was not left up to K&J’s discretion. ----------------------------------
I couldn't agree more. That's my main issue with all these reality shows that involve kids. (There seems to be a new one every day..and does TLC really need TWO shows with a family with multiples?)
This is my take and my opinion. This is what I find interesting. When a positive article comes out about the Gosselins (and we have to admit at this point they far out weight the negative), you don't even see it mentioned on GWoP as a main post or a point of discussion. When I go to the comment section on the website of a positive article, all I really see is a bunch of commenters bashing the magazine, website or writer. There many be a one or two people that are trying to post in support of the writer or magazine. The negative commenters and people posting at GWoP immediately want to start a letter writing campaign to boycott the magazine or TV show or whoever cast the Gosselins in a positive light. The comments become quite nasty. They take over total control of the comment section and anyone pro Gosselin quickly exits in frustration.
Now, I just read the comments section of the Boston Herald, and I saw none of that from the pro Gosselin crowd. In fact, what I saw was just more anti-Gosselins commenting their same points that I read over at GWoP. I don't recall anyone here posting to boycott the newspaper or to have a massive write in campaign.
By the way, there is no winning in this situation. This is not a game. This is a real family. Real human beings. Someone needs to remember that. Also no one from this blog is contacting the media, newspapers, Bill O'Reilley, Oprah, or President Elect Obama. This is a source of entertainment.
Nina Bell said..... Also no one from this blog is contacting the media, newspapers, Bill O'Reilley, Oprah, or President Elect Obama. This is a source of entertainment. ----------------------------------
Contacting those kinds of journalists doesn't really bother me. It was when I saw on poster on GWOP said that they were contacting people Like PerezHilton.com that I knew it was time for me to stop reading that site. Perez Hilton draws things like genitalia on pictures..amoung other things. Do they believe having him deface some Gosselin picture is in the best interest of the kids?
That is exactly my point. When does it stop and how far does it go? There is a way to get your point across. Having a blog and posting factual information - I have no problem with that. Campaigning to have laws to regulate children in Reality TV - I am all for that. Letter writing campaigns that are based on FACTUAL information - go for it.
"You know, Kelley, I thought the same thing - to refer to the Gosselins' "fertility" twice in the same short article seemed insensitive if not ignorant. It did not improve my opinion of the author much."
But without the Gosselins' fertility, there would be no show. It's pertinent.
HBIC8u, You said in your post that what this man got in comparison to another article is mild. How do we know how much grief he got? There are a lot of very defensive Gosselin fans that might not post here. They might flood him with e-mails, etc. Even if what you say is true, does it make it any better than what GWOP does? I had to agree with the comment posted by Erin. It is such a strange back and forth. I enjoy this site, and the lively debates. But I take no solace in thinking I am any better that the posters on GWOP. Most of the time I think I am kind of strange for being involved at all. I know--just walk away. But I can't! I guess I do have a Kate trait after all--I keep thinking I'll get in the last word. LOL
The thing I think that bugs me the most about this whole controversy is how (at least at GWOP) they hide behind the "child-advocacy." Like writing letters makes everything bad they say all right. What do you think those children are going to say when they find that blog? I guarantee you they're going to find it one day, and they're going to read all of it. They're going to see the comments about how horrible their lives are and how stupid people think their parents to be. But GWOP doesn't think of that. They seriously think that those children are going to drop down on their knees and thank them for being child advocates. Really people?
I know that it's up to Jon and Kate to be the parents and protect their kids from negative controversy like this article and GWOP and others. But all I ever hear is how those kids are going to hate their parents for negatively portraying them. Don't you think they're going to hate the world for talking about it?
I would also like to mention that this article was submitted several times by people with screen names that never posted here. Obviously that was done in order to "rub it into someone's face" in my opinion.
Ahhh. The maturity level of GWoP strikes again. Is is any wonder that I'll never take them (or the reporters they harangue into submission) seriously?
Now, I just read the comments section of the Boston Herald, and I saw none of that from the pro Gosselin crowd. In fact, what I saw was just more anti-Gosselins commenting their same points that I read over at GWoP.
Which is what they do at GWoP. They follow, harass and flood mailboxes full of hateful comments, no matter if the article is positive of negative. It must be draining, carrying around all that sanctimony and loathing (not to mention a sizable cross) on your back everyday.
Maybe we're better off. We watch the show because we enjoy it. We actually have lives away from the computer. We don't spend so much time and energy on the negative. We don't live our lives in a constant state of schadenfreude. Hell, if all that means I'm a Sheeple, bring it on.
Anya said... Nina Bell said...We will discuss it. We won't just delete it and have it disappear like it never happened or did not exist.
Why, I haven't a CLUE who in the world you could be talking about there, Nina.
November 17, 2008 2:04 PM
---- And no chicken sh#t anon posters...that is what really gets me overthere. All of the "regulars" are gone...I guess they feel that posting anon is better.
I thought the Hayes family show was awesome. Those parents are amazing. So level-headed, laid back, calm and good natured. Now, that's not a dig at Jon & Kate. I think it's interesting because it shows what it's like as a normal family with multiples. Working parents struggling with minimal help and minimal funds. I'll continue to watch both shows but I don't consider them similar. J&K is now about the life of celebrities (nothing wrong with that) and the new show is about a family with multiples. I think I'll enjoy both.
How do we know how much grief he got? There are a lot of very defensive Gosselin fans that might not post here. They might flood him with e-mails, etc. Even if what you say is true, does it make it any better than what GWOP does?
Okay, fair enough.
So, I went back and read through the comments and there was not one that was even remotely threatening in nature. I guess there is the possiblity of email, but I guess I'll never know.
And yeah, there is a BIG difference between disagreeing with someone and attacking them personally.
But I take no solace in thinking I am any better that the posters on GWOP.
Really? I do. I take solace in knowing that I can disagree with another person's way of life without feeling the need to bash them continuously, or post their personal information all over the internet. I don't feel the need to crucify someone based on a heavily edited tv show and internet rumor. And I don't use child advocacy as an excuse to get on a soapbox and rant about how I am a superior parent.
So yeah, I have a problem with gwop's message and I won't apologize for it. Hate is not advocacy in any way, shape, or form. Period.
I actually didn't really find the Hayes to be very interesting. Not a cut at them it's just that we've seen it before.
And all I could think when I was watching was what GWOP was going to say about the fact that those kids didn't come out of cribs until they were almost 5!
HBIC8u, I'm glad that you feel good about comparing yourselves to the GWOP group. Again, what I have stated was my opinion and mine alone. I just see a pattern that appears from time to time. If a thread starts here, bashing someone--and it is brought to everyone's attention--the refrain starts "at least we aren't as bad as the GWOP trolls." If we can't see the irony in this, then maybe some perspective has been lost. Again --just my opinion. I know this is for entertainment, but does anyone find the parallel between the GWOP site loving to hate the Gosselins, and SOME people on this site loving to hate the GWOP group. Just a thought.
I think they were in cribs because Dad had to put them together when he wasn't working. They did sit in real chairs, carry their own plates to the table and drink from actual cups without lids. I liked the family. While I am not big on the whole bathroom scene stuff, they were actually playing in the tub, not being "showered" It was cute the way they handled the bathroom incident at the restaurant - "you look like a princess"
I know this is for entertainment, but does anyone find the parallel between the GWOP site loving to hate the Gosselins, and SOME people on this site loving to hate the GWOP group.
No I don't bc as far as I know we don't wish to "take them down", trash eveything about them, obsess over everything they have/receive, HARSHLY criticize their children/parenting skills/new homes/wardrobe/hair color/choice in peanut butter etc. In fact the reason I dislike them at all is bc they are sooooo RUDE in general and all in the name of advocacY/BS
I'm glad that you feel good about comparing yourselves to the GWOP group.
Don't misunderstand me. I was speaking for myself, no one else. And I don't compare myself to them. However, you implied that those who disagreed with the Boston Herald article were only trashing the author because we are so "pro-Gosselin" that we couldn't possibly believe that someone would write a negative article about them unless prompted to by gwop. You followed up by saying that was no reason to trash him. I was simply pointing out gwop has been known to do it's own trashing.
If we can't see the irony in this, then maybe some perspective has been lost.
That depends on what perspective you started with. I don't claim to be advocating for some higher purpose. I personally don't think Kate needs me to defend her, and sometimes there's not much of a defense. I don't know why it matters to some why anyone else posts here.
Where is the irony? I don't care for the gwop's message and I talk about it here. So what? I don't stalk these people. I don't care where the work or what family members they do or don't have relationships with. Their homes, neighbors, friends, and finances are none of my concern.
Maybe I haven't been clear. I don't care if you don't love Kate Gosselin. I don't. I don't even care if you snark on her hair or the size of her ass(I think it's childish and mean, but you are entitled to your opinion). Taking shots at the kids, posting personal information, and spreading your rumor based opinion as fact in an attempt to "take down" a family? That's what gets me. I refer to them as "gwoppers" because gwop allows those things to go on. Not everyone that disagrees with what this family does is that way, as evident by several of the posters on this blog.
I know this is for entertainment, but does anyone find the parallel between the GWOP site loving to hate the Gosselins, and SOME people on this site loving to hate the GWOP group. Just a thought.
I don't go out of my way to visit that site everyday so that I can come over here and bitch about it. In fact, I don't go there at all. It pisses me off, so I choose not to read it.
I promise--this is my last post :). Here is my perspective. As I have said before, I enjoy the show. The parallel I was referring to is GWOP would not have any drama without Kate to hate. This site would not have drama without Julie, and GWOP. Again-just my opinion. I think the discussions are lively. I just never watched an episode--asking myself--how will "they" trash this. A lot of folks say they rarely visit GWOP, but the minute something outrageous is posted there, it is a big topic. That does add to the debate. They are the drama. IMO
I never really thought of GWOP as an advocacy site. It seems to me they started it mostly to have a place to go when TWOP shut down the J&K thread. I don't have an issue with them being critical of things J&K do or say, it is what happens to people who chose to be on reality TV. After reading TWOP for years maybe I'm immune to those kind of posts.I rarely read over there because post after post of criticism is monotonous. I read message boards about TV shows I watch to find other people's take on what I see and this is my go-to board for J&K. A little balance is more interesting.
Kate is a perfect for reality TV because she doesn't care what people think. She gets what she wants out of it; security for her family and amazing places to visit. So what if some boards/blogs hate her, I'm sure that's a minor blip on her radar.
I think you are forgetting the whole Penn Mommy fiasco. Drama at its best.
I started this blog. From the beginning we stated that we wanted to discuss the issues surrounding Jon and Kate Plus 8. We made it clear that those issues included GWoP. This blog was not started to discuss the show only. Some people ( and I am not saying you) can not get past that.
I think that Kate is the way she is because that's how she was raised. I don't have a problem with her. She says that she doesn't care what people think, but deep down inside I'm sure she does.
Nina Bell, Yikes! It's me again! I am embarrassed to admit that I never read the purpose for this blog. Blogging is really new to me. I've found myself really drawn to this one. Kudos to you. You have always been very respectful of my opinions and I appreciate that. I am also very embarrassed to admit that I was drawn into the Penn Mommy thing hook, line, and sinker. That tells you how new I am to the blogosphere. I couldn't imagine someone giving such a detailed account of something so tragic. I kept thinking, "Why would someone make that up?" I was very hard on Guin, because I thought she was being insensitive. So, I should take into consideration,that those of you who have been in the blogosphere awhile, have been burned. Anyway, I think I have used up all my words for a while.(famous last words :)
I just never watched an episode--asking myself--how will "they" trash this. A lot of folks say they rarely visit GWOP, but the minute something outrageous is posted there, it is a big topic. That does add to the debate. They are the drama. IMO
Honestly, I don't really look for the "how will they trash this" moments, I just know them when I see them, and it does suck some of the fun of watching the show out of it for me.
There are a lot of people here that do read gwop and will tell you so, and it only takes one to bring the info here and start a conversation about it. I think it's unlikely that you'll find a bunch of closet gwop readers here.
So, I should take into consideration,that those of you who have been in the blogosphere awhile, have been burned.
That's very true. I think part of the problem is that to many people(myself included) tend to lump people into this group or gwop, which isn't really fair. I do tend to think that many of the less extreme haters wind up here eventually because they want to discuss the issues but aren't into all of the other things that go on at gwop.
*I have a really bad cold and have been doped up on meds all day so my head is fuzzy--I'm having trouble putting my thoughts into words so I hope I'm making sense:-)
Roy Stated:"But without the Gosselins' fertility, there would be no show. It's pertinent."
Quoting the article: "TLC's Favorite FERTILE couple..."
"If we're rewarding people based on FERTILITY shouldn't the rewards go to the least blessed"
Kelley Responds: I'm not suggesting that their fertility issues are off limits. I am pointing out that he used the words incorrectly in his article. If Jon and Kate had spontaneously concieved sextuplets, then they would be TLC's Fertile couple. However due to Kate's INFERTILITY, they had to go through In-Utero Insemination treatments and therefore would be called "TLC's favorite INFERTILE" couple, but that wouldn't sound very nice would it? I'm saying he mis-labeled them in the opening phrase of his Article and then was crass about them being rewarded for their "Fertility" and using a terriblely offensive and inaccurate metaphor in the middle of his article. Bad writing is bad writing and insensitive is just insensitive.
Kelley said...I'm saying he mis-labeled them in the opening phrase of his Article and then was crass about them being rewarded for their "Fertility" and using a terriblely offensive and inaccurate metaphor in the middle of his article. Bad writing is bad writing and insensitive is just insensitive."
Well, said Kelley. I still can't believe this guy writes for a fairly large newspaper.
A slapdash and insensitive article all around and he deserves to be called on it.
Before I commented about this on my blog I wanted people here to read what a person named Alana wrote yesterday on GWOP of those that like Jon & Kate:
"Finally, I've come to the conclusion that the major difference between the 'fans' who still love the JOK Show and the former fans who 'get it' is EDUCATION. IMO, the KON fans can relate to Jon and Kate. They aren't very smart, never finished school (COLLEGE), married young and had children right away,tend to think for the moment instead of planning, are selfish in a negative way, have a "me-too" mentality to go with their "me-first" attitude,never set short term goals in order to meet long-term goals, have jobs instead of careers, and argue and fight with extended family members because the drama gives them the adrenaline rush they need to get off their a___s!"
This to me sounds like the most uneducated person I can think of. Who would allow this to be written. Also, alot of the post have spelling errors in them. I thought those were not allowed to be published? These few people with the hundreds of Anons all sound like one blended person to me. Kind of like the person who wrote that article.
I have seen a lot of posts like that claiming Jon and Kate fans 'have no souls' and 'would allow children to be consistently harmed' as well as what you copied that we are apparently uneducated women who are barefoot and pregnant at 16 with no drive (no offense to anyone who had a baby young at all-- my sister in law had her first when she was 16 and while she now knows it was not the best choice she also has grown into a phenomenal person through that situation).
Personally, I am 1/3 of the way done with my Masters degree and am one of four professionals running a management company that handles over 600 contractors a week. I'm single, 28, and looking to buy my first house soon (its a buyers market!) I am definitely a planner (to my boyfriend's chagrin!) and adore children- I was a nanny at a few different points in my life, have helped run a day care, and spend as much time as possible with my nephew. All that to say-- apparently many of us are not what the haters expect to encounter :)! They expect that naive sheeple mentality, and (especially at this blog, as well as yours baby mama) are met with people who think logically and make smart decisions.
I actually am not offended by those comments made, though... I'm more sad that people feel the need to belittle others so they can feel good about themselves.
That sounds like me. Can I just say that I had my first child at 26. I have my Master's Degree and have successfully completed a Fellowship at Rutgers. My parent's are still living and I have 5 brothers and sisters and I have a great relationship with all of them. I definitely have a career and have set and met all of my goals. I will be retiring at 55 and plan to volunteer on a regular basis. Volunteering is not new to me and I have received recognition for my efforts from the mayor of the very large city that I live in.
So sure, I fit the bill of being uneducated selfish trash who enjoys fighting with my family.
That is a pretty ridiculous statement, Baby Mama, if you ask me. It doesn't matter if you have a child at age 18 or married when you were 40. Educational background does not indicate what type of person you are or how you treat other human beings. The person that made that statement is ignorant in my mind.
Nina Bell, A new day. Time to open mouth and switch feet. I took the time to really read the posts at GWOP. ( I had only looked at it on occasion, and I guess had read mostly benign posts.) I really took the time to read a lot of posts. MEA CULPA. There are some wackos. I have seen the light. Disregard previous posts and have a great evening everyone.
floridamom- at least for my part, I appreciate your willingness to be honest in your new views on all of this :). That is another (of the many) reason(s) why I really prefer this site-- people are adults! We admit when we are wrong, are willing to try to see things differently, and treat each other with respect. Its a pretty neat place to be :)!
It isn't about being against every single poster that has ever done anything with GWoP, then heating up the tar and plucking feathers for their demise-- its about seeing that a majority of the things said there are hateful, malicious, detrimental, and just not cool...
Wow, I knew I was hanging with a smart and savvy group of ladies. Thanks for sharing a bit more about who you are.
I haven't achieved everything I want to in my life, but I am working on it! I had my daughter at 23. I work full-time. I do have a career and have been promoted several times. I go to school part-time and am determined to get my BA and not stop until I get my Master's. Oh yeah, my family gets on my nerves, but I am not estranged from anyone...!
Alana on GWoP says..."and argue and fight with extended family members because the drama gives them the adrenaline rush they need to get off their a___s!"
Well, I don't know the rest of her story, but this particular description sounds like a carbon copy of Julie.
I just love coming here at the end of my day to read your comments. Some of them make me laugh.
I come from a family of seven children. Four girls and three boys. We have always been a really close family growing up and now. My husband and I have three children right now, but we plan on having more.
I can relate to the Gosselins large family. I remember doing fun things as a large group. The more the merrier I always say.
Jon and Kate are doing the best that they can. Having a large number of children is not an easy job. I'm sure that Jenny is a big help, but I would also like to see someone a little bit older helping Jon and Kate.
Happymama (like your name!), it's nice to see you posting.
Coming from a smallish family, I am a bit envious of those who come from large ones. Funny: this is what I more desirous of - not the "free things" that others claim the Gosselins did not earn. Hmmm. And who are the small minded ones? Like everything in life, however, it's what we make of the relationships we do have and I know I get off easy at Christmas and other holidays because my shopping list isn't a mile long....
I can see your point about having some older folks involved in the kids life, but I'll repeat what others have said before, just because it's not shown on the show doesn't mean it's not happening.
What I should have said, is that I would like to see someone older on the show, helping to take care of the children. I think we wouldn't be hearing so much negative talk, if someone with more experience was supervising the children. I hope that makes sense. :)
happymama said...What I should have said, is that I would like to see someone older on the show, helping to take care of the children. I think we wouldn't be hearing so much negative talk, if someone with more experience was supervising the children. I hope that makes sense. :)
Of course, I totally get your point. I am someone who enjoyed seeing the extended friends and relatives. I actually really liked seeing Jodi, Kevin, Nana Janet, etc. My guess is there are different reasons why these various individuals are not shown on the show anymore. Everything is purely speculation on my part, but there may be some relationships that are currently not going so well (I think we know who those might be) and others people who are involved who just don't want to included in the filming process. I can understand that and it's a downside to what the Gosselins have committed to - some people don't want to give up their privacy and I think most of us understand the reasons behind that.
Lizabeth, just wanted to say congratulations for being 1/3 way through your masters. Good luck with the next 2/3!!!!
Nina and Saint, congratulations on yours as well.
If GWOP is going to let it be a free-for-all for insiders why did they remove all the PM stuff? The remarks about the poster who said tups did not get red and yellow lights every day at school were stunning. They were wondering what kind of parent would look at another child's record. I must quote one of my fav lines from a movie, Susan Sarandon in Bull Durham: “The world seems made for those not cursed with self-awareness.”
I really do believe that once these children become older and start school, they may indeed be teased in an awful way. I mean it's not like it used to be when I was in school. Thank goodness, we had no computers, no internet, no blogs, no phones that can take pictures or record videos, ect.
I am dating myself ( :
My point would be that "bullying/teasing" has become Huge in its magnitude(sp) and damage that can be done to someone.
There is no need for the camera crew to focus in on one of the tup boys in just his underwear. They are no longer babies in diapers. It is not cute. I can imagine that image being used in school (later on) to pass around with all of this high-tech phone stuff that they have now. So, I do believe the author of the article has a good point.
Kids naturally want to blend in, not be "different" in anyway, for example, having most of your childhood moments on Dvd's, now being sold or on youtube. It will always be out there. I really do bet that Mady and Cara may already be experiencing this. That makes me feel sad for them, plus I have a feeling of wishing I could protect them myself. I wonder if Kate gets that "mother bear" feel with Mady and Cara on what they may be experiencing at school because of the series.
Yes, some people may say, "Well, we don't know if this is really happening to Mady and Cara and kids will always find something to tease a kid with."
I must say it is very compelling when you read a blog entry claiming to be a distant relative of Jon's side of the family (his mom) that was invited to the "renewing vows" ceremony. These people lived on one of the islands and came to the ceremony and this person describe how they were treated by Kate.
Again, I know people will say, "how do you know this person is not fabricating this experience and pretending to be the relative?"
These are only my views and opinions and observations. It's okay if someone sees it differently as I do.
Anya and floridamom- ditto on the older people there for the kids-- I think I mentioned before a 'deleted' scene on TLC's website talked about Carla giving them a chrysallis... there were no details of if she still spent time with the kids of course, but the whole "ZOMG Where are the lost souls who used to valiantly watch these demon children!!11!" was wrong in at least that case :).
Saint, LOL at your teeth comment-- Me too!!
Merryway, thank you! The next 1/3 is a lot of the financial classes (Statistics, Accounting, etc) which kill me, so it will be a LONG winter... but I'm excited to learn :).
Michelle, I can see why you would feel the way you do about the 'distant relative' and how some of us have said that the kids will be teased regardless of whether they are 'famous.' As far as the anonymous GWoP post, I give that less credit than the statements made from people who attended Jon and Kate's speaking engagements-- unless I see video, pictures, etc I won't believe a single one. That includes the good accounts-- there are many posters who state J & K were wonderful to meet, but unless they have pictures I am not going to take it as gospel.
Just my opinion- I respect yours, but I hope you see those of us here who disagree do so after being burned in the past by "relatives" and "friends" who were "just trying to help the kids"...
I highly doubt that the anonymous poster from GWOP really is a family member. That person just happens across the website and decides to post there (and remain anonymous)? Yeah right. Sounds like PM to me.
Why not just open a thread about GWoP and be done with it? Every Gosselin-related thread here with a new subject is hijacked from the original intent and the discussion becomes about child advocay, mission statements, anonymous posters.
As one previous poster stated, without Kate, no GWoP. Without GWoP, not much GDNP sometimes, it seems.
OK this is off topic but... I was just reading the account of the person who saw their speaking engagements. In the comments (I won't C & P) they are making allegations of child abuse.... what the crap?? One person posted saying they are a neighbor who saw J & K hitting their kids outside, to which the article author said she had no doubt that was going on. Wow.... just wow... I'll say this as calmly as possible, since child abuse (and CPS claims) are something I take VERY personally*. NO ONE has any right to state something as libelous as that on a blog... that is so unethical as well as (IMO) immoral. If anyone saw abuse then it should have been reported, in which case J & K would be investigated and IF the claims were substantial action would be taken. I am so tired of people pulling this crap... it is something I hope Jon and Kate would prosecute if it continues!
*- Just as a note, my aunt and uncle had CPS called on them by a neighbor after my cousin was upstairs in one of the old school walkers with wheels, and fell down the steps. Complete fluke accident, where my aunt ran to catch the walker as she rolled over and just missed it, and completely the kind of thing parents have nightmares about... This was over 10 years ago and Hailie was not hurt, but the pain that allegation caused was so deep for them. It broke my heart to know how much they went through because someone ran their mouth about something they knew nothing of.
I agree with you about the "abuse" allegations. You just call the appropriate people if you feel you have seen some kind of abuse occurring, so it can be properly investigated. You should not go around making postings of this.
I personally do not believe in disciplining(sp) your children with one's hand or an object to a child. I would call it "hitting" but I also think many people may just call it "spanking" and they feel it is okay. Perhaps Jon and Kate do spank their children and they feel it is okay. Who knows??
But, yes, I would think you need to be careful in throwing around such allegations.
To anyone: I blog on both sites (this site and GWOP). I really do try and give Kate and Jon the benefit of the doubt and be fair. And I do read (not all, don't have the time ( : )comments on both sites and respect each others opinions and views on how they feel or see Jon and Kate and the show. The entries I never agree with and do not respect are the ones that personally take jabs at them both by making fun of their looks, etc. I do think the issues of the children's rights are valid issues and concerns, though.
And when I do read about people's "own" accounts about Jon and Kate, I can be shocked by what they are saying and do wonder if it is indeed all true and if so, how awful! But, I also take whatever I read on a blog (both this one and GWOP) with a grain of salt. And I do think that Not all the people who blog at GWOP "hate" Jon and Kate. I certainly don't. But, I do admit I do see some valid points when it comes to children and the show. But again, we all have our own opinions which we should resect as their own except the ones that just plain make fun of Jon or Kate or are mean-spirited.
I work in Children's Services and I have to tell you that just because someone spanks (hits) their child, doesn't mean it's child abuse. If that were true, then a large number of parents would be in big trouble. Judge's don't want to take children from their parents. The children do best when they are with their real parents. Child abuse is very involved. If a child is being beaten and there are bruises to prove it (or broken bones) then we would investigate. If one of the Gosselin children were to come to the hospital with broken bones, the doctors and nurses are trained to look for certain things. If the medical team suspects child abuse, then we would be called. If however, just one child is found to be abused in a family, we by law are required to remove ALL the children.
You said "perhaps Jon and Kate spank the children" and "who knows"? ______________
Well Kate has admitted on national television that she spanks the children. So, I guess that answers both the "perhaps" and the "who knows".
I am in agreement with you. I do not believe in spanking with one's hand or an object. A parent should NEVER put their hand (or hands) on a child, except in a loving way. Parents who spank (hit) don't realize the damage that they are doing to that child's ego. Spanking is learned behavior. If someone spanks their child, more than likely, they were spanked by their parent when they were little. We need to break the cycle of spanking. It's not a good thing to do.
Michelle, As far as my post, it wasn't as much about the spanking (I have my personal views on that which have no bearing here) as it was about the response of "Well if they do that in public, imagine how bad she beats them behind closed doors." While that is not what was directly said, it was definitely implied. Any abuse allegations are either unfounded or hearsay (that word looks funny even though its spelled right!). It seems as though a lot of people start saying things which quickly get out of control (*cough* Penn mommy/CPS posts *cough*) and whether they are true or false it casts a very dark shadow over the Gosselins. So that was my main point-- just that we all need to be very careful what we say and how we say it, since now as others have mentioned people have stated hearsay (again it looks weird...) as fact. This is so dangerous, and the reason I mentioned the CPS situation regarding my aunt and uncle-- you have to know what is going on for a fact before stating things which are at best partially untrue and at worst devastating to a family.
funny story (well not really funny...) My parents used to spank my sister and me when we were really young- keep in mind they are very loving and wonderful parents, they just did what they were brought up with. Well one day my sister came home from kindergarten with a note from her teacher saying that she hit another student. When my mom asked her why she would hit someone she said "well you hit me." My parents never once spanked us after that.
We kind of like things the way they are. It sounds like you have a problem with us talking about GWoP when we want to.
So next time I want to talk about them, I will ask your permission first."
Nina, defensive much? I don't remember attacking or sounding aggressive in my post. I said almost every thread on any subject the mods post is turned into a "I hate GWoP" thread or "why we're better than they are." Not telling anyone what to discuss or not, just saying, consider opening a thread and have a real discussion about GWoP and then let the threads address the subject. Sometimes a mod comes on and gets a thread back on topic, sometimes not. It's your blog and you can have consistency or not, I guess. But when the readers are having an interesting discussion and it veers off to discussing GWoP - again - it detracts from the substance of the thread. And, quite frankly, makes some of the threads sound as rabid about GWoP as the posters on GWoP sound about J&K.
Not defensive at all. I am just wondering if you are aware how you sound when you come on this site? You were not even participating in this thread. But as a commenter, you certainly could get the thread back on topic if you wanted to.
I have explained before on this site that many times when I mod, it is from my Blackberry and I am not able to post on the computer.
Why not email me and give me your suggestions. In essence your post is doing the very thing that you are complaining about.
One more thing. GWoP is very much entwined in many of the issues that are addressed in these posts. That is why many of the commenters refer to them. It is very clear that we make every attempt not to reject comments. So if the thread wonders once and awhile, so be it. All of the mods here have full time jobs and some are also in school. This is not a job, but a hobby. We are not perfect. If you have issues, an email would be appreciated.
Nina, I think a lot has to do with the lag between posts. You say I wasn't a commenter on the thread (although I did further up the page, briefly). But that does not mean I wasn't reading and following, as do others. So, instead of jumping in and responding to every post, I read and consider if it's something to comment on or respond to.
So, someone comments, another responds, I comment and go away to work, etc. for hours or a day. Come back and read, and respond.
That means I am reading the comments in aggregate and thinking about the trend of responses.
I'm sure you're aware of this with readers. What I don't know is if the mods have time to read entire threads. I can't imagine they want to spend a lot of time doing so. And if they can't/don't, that may explain the issue a bit more.
120 comments:
Why, if someone dare not fawn all over the Gosselins, are they immediately put in the GWOP group. Is is possible that not everyone in the good old USA love, love, love this family? Is it possible that this guy actually watched a few episodes and came to his conclusions on his own? Did the PR firm forget to buy a full page ad in their paper?
The people that hate Jon and Kate will agree entirely, the people that love them will think he is Julie's alias--part of a big conspiracy by the GWOP group. I think he made some valid points, but it is obvious he doesn't like the show. It is his opinion, so I don't see the need to trash him.
Gag me
Probably for the same reason that anyone who might remotely enjoy the show for what it is, entertainment, is called a sheeple.
Why, if someone dare not fawn all over the Gosselins, are they immediately put in the GWOP group. Is is possible that not everyone in the good old USA love, love, love this family? Is it possible that this guy actually watched a few episodes and came to his conclusions on his own? Did the PR firm forget to buy a full page ad in their paper?
What does the PR firm have to do with it? Are you insinuating that if he did like the show, it would only be because TLC had paid for advertising?
I think there are people who like the show and people who don't (many of the latter, though, still watch it and spend countless hours a day talking about it, strangely enough). I suppose he could have come to the conclusions he did on his own; they just aren't very nuanced or sophisticated thoughts. But, it's just a TV show, not German philosophy, so I guess that's okay.
It is his opinion, so I don't see the need to trash him.
I don't feel the need to trash him but at the same time the whole thing is a bit boring to me, since his points lack originality, to say the least. I posted the article originally because several posters sent it in; otherwise, I wouldn't feel the need to really talk about it. But that's just me.
Guin,
I didn't mean you were trashing him. But at the end of the last post people started in about his writing style, etc. I just wonder if his style would be critiqued if his article had been a glowing endorsement. I just want to look at it a little more objectively.
What does the PR firm have to do with it? There were two negative articles in the NE, now they are featured in an ad in the NE. Do you think the PR firm had anything to do with that? (sort of like blatant product placement) And if the article was so boring to you, why did you take the time to post about it and ask for discussion?
Guin,
Also, I wanted to agree with you that it would be hard to have a really nuanced evaluation of this show. I do think it is entertainment, not food for deep thought.
And Guin: Since when do you have to be sophisticated and nuanced to have a "meaningful and cohesive" thought? They are my big words for the day - your idols J & K don't appear to have very many sophisticated thoughts either.
Guinevere said..."I don't feel the need to trash him but at the same time the whole thing is a bit boring to me, since his points lack originality, to say the least.
Exactly. He's entitled to his opinion and I am entitled to believe he is amateurish and dull. Maybe I am just spoiled. My local newspaper has an excellent t.v. critic. I have no idea if he likes J&K, but I know he could churn out an interesting article on them.
By the way, for anyone questioning this man's taste, he apparently thought that Cloris Leachman was "sassy, brassy" and entertaining on her recent stint on Dancing with the Stars.
News flash: IMO she was awful. And she was quite rude and acted like a bitch. I guess that's considered endearing at 82, but the rest of us girls - the under 80 set - better learn to mind our p's and q's - right?! That means you Kate!
I didn't mean you were trashing him. But at the end of the last post people started in about his writing style, etc. I just wonder if his style would be critiqued if his article had been a glowing endorsement.
Probably not. But I also don't think his writing style would be critiqued if he had anything to say we haven't all heard a thousand times before. Now, that's not necessarily his fault, assuming he did come to these conclusions on his own and didn't just google Gosselin discussion groups and copy and paste the prevailing thoughts at GWoP.
What does the PR firm have to do with it? There were two negative articles in the NE, now they are featured in an ad in the NE. Do you think the PR firm had anything to do with that? (sort of like blatant product placement) And if the article was so boring to you, why did you take the time to post about it and ask for discussion?
I am far from an expert, but my understanding was the the PR firm is in the hire of the Gosselins. TLC would be responsible for advertising, I would imagine. So I don't know that the two would be related.
Are you suggested that the negative articles in the NE were a way to force TLC to advertise with them?
As to your last question, I like to argue. You got a problem with that?
Guin,
Also, I wanted to agree with you that it would be hard to have a really nuanced evaluation of this show. I do think it is entertainment, not food for deep thought.
I think it's possible to have a thoughtful discussion about the issues surrounding the show, especially in relation to privacy. I don't personally feel the same about the "freebies" - once that gets brought up, I'm afraid I tend to dismiss the writer as jealous. I can't come up with a good reason why anyone would care unless they are jealous.
I do watch the show for entertainment, and discuss the show for entertainment. I find that it's by and large "the other side" who believes they have a "mission" to get the "truth" out. Though of course there are people who dislike the show and the Gosselins who don't espouse any higher purpose. I would think most of those people would just stop watching, though.
And Guin: Since when do you have to be sophisticated and nuanced to have a "meaningful and cohesive" thought? They are my big words for the day - your idols J & K don't appear to have very many sophisticated thoughts either.
As I explained above, it would just have been nice had the article had something new to add.
J&K are not my "idols", by the way. Unlike some people, I do not feel the need to either love or hate people that I do not even know. I would agree that neither of them appear to be deep or sophistcated thinkers (not that I think either of them is stupid).
And if the article was so boring to you, why did you take the time to post about it and ask for discussion?
If you look at the previous thread, we had several requests to make this a main post. The other thread was becoming off topic.
By the way, for anyone questioning this man's taste, he apparently thought that Cloris Leachman was "sassy, brassy" and entertaining on her recent stint on Dancing with the Stars.
News flash: IMO she was awful. And she was quite rude and acted like a bitch. I guess that's considered endearing at 82, but the rest of us girls - the under 80 set - better learn to mind our p's and q's - right?! That means you Kate!
OMG, if he liked Cloris Leachman on DWTS, I think it's safe to say that he and I have absolutely nothing in common. And I agree, being over 80 does not magically make it cute when you act like an ass. Though I've heard bad things about Leachman's personality for years, so I don't think her hijinks were anything new.
floridamom-
I can only assume you comments are in relation to mine. As you know this is a blog where people express opinions and mine is exactly as I stated it to be. I've spent the day reviewing manuscripts for publishing so maybe I'm in crtique mode. Others were discussing the article and I posted exactly what I took from it.
Gag Me said...And Guin: Since when do you have to be sophisticated and nuanced to have a "meaningful and cohesive" thought? They are my big words for the day - your idols J & K don't appear to have very many sophisticated thoughts either
Agree, let's dumb it down for the masses. No nuanced discussion whatsoever! That's for the big brains who think they are so much better than everyone else - right?
And you are so right, it's clear that J&K are not "sophisticated people." Who do they think they are anyway??? Why we all know Kate should have just stayed in the trailer park from where she came...
I would also like to mention that this article was submitted several times by people with screen names that never posted here. Obviously that was done in order to "rub it into someone's face" in my opinion. However, on this blog we are not afraid to discuss whatever is going on in the Gosselin world. Positive or negative. Bring it on. We will discuss it. We won't just delete it and have it disappear like it never happened or did not exist.
Nina Bell said...We will discuss it. We won't just delete it and have it disappear like it never happened or did not exist.
Why, I haven't a CLUE who in the world you could be talking about there, Nina.
SamanthaNC,
I wasn't singling your post out. There were several in the same vain. I like the show, I watch the show. He did make valid, if unoringinal posts. But, as has been stated--maybe he isn't enthralled by the cyerworld of the Gosselins. I don't agree with him that the show needs to come to an end. I don't feel the children will be permanently harmed any more than they would with parents constantly struggling to make ends meet and arguing over finances.
All, I was saying, was that I have read equally vapid articles--with nothing original in them--praising the show. No one wants these authors journalistic creditials. IMO
floridamom said...All, I was saying, was that I have read equally vapid articles--with nothing original in them--praising the show. No one wants these authors journalistic creditials. IMO
Fair enough. You make a solid point.
At the end of the day, I think I prefer reading the thoughts of the posters here much more than a random reviewer who might have seen a few episodes.
And we do have a quite a few here who are far from being on the "Gosselin bandwagon", who I respect and enjoy reading. These people tend to be thoughtful, willing to look at issues from more than one side and generally respectful in how they approach discussion. You guys know who you are.
All, I was saying, was that I have read equally vapid articles--with nothing original in them--praising the show
I agree with you here. There were a lot in the last several months. It was obvious that it was part of a whole publicity campaign. I think everyone was pretty well aware of that. There were so many that I quit posting about them. But it seemed to push a few buttons out in the Gosselin blogosphere.
He really didn't say anything we haven't heard before...
Poor guy, he was probably thinking "I have to do the kid show? Really?"
That being said, I'm a writer, I'll do freelance for the BH if they're looking! ;D
After reading his article, it felt like reading some of the milder posts over at GWOP. I see alot of comments at his actual article site came from Gwopers.
It was kind of interesting reading an article by an actual man and not a "SHIM" though.
Anya,
you geriatric hater you :) lol j/k Cloris was annoying.
As an ex-fan of the show and Boston area native, I was glad to see the Herald article. For fear of being branded as a jealous "GWOPer" let me just say that I and my children have been able to enjoy many of life's extras (thanks to my husband's hard work) all while being able to stay home with my children. However, when I watch the episodes that center around freebies, what comes to mind is a feeling of discomfort. Hard to describe but very much like the feeling I get when I hear of the exorbitant severance packages awarded to corporate executives who have run their businesses into the ground. These people take all they can get with a lack respect paid to their employees (in the Gosselin's case the children) or the company's shareholders (those that have donated time and monetary gifts to the family). I guess what makes it all feel so unsettling is at the core of both is a level of greed and selfishness that I feel unacceptable.
Anya, you geriatric hater you :) lol j/k Cloris was annoying.
That's me!
Seriously, my job requires working with my company's retirees, and I generally like them a lot better than the younger set!
I couldn't stand Cloris, however, and she stayed way longer than we she should have. People like Toni Braxton deserved better.
My next target - Lance Bass or if it has to be...Cody what-his-name. We gotta have a Brooke-Warren final!
Hard to describe but very much like the feeling I get when I hear of the exorbitant severance packages awarded to corporate executives who have run their businesses into the ground. These people take all they can get with a lack respect paid to their employees (in the Gosselin's case the children) or the company's shareholders (those that have donated time and monetary gifts to the family). I guess what makes it all feel so unsettling is at the core of both is a level of greed and selfishness that I feel unacceptable.
That's an interesting analogy, but it doesn't quite work for me. First of all, in the case of corporate executives, what they are given in severance is so much more than the Gosselins make I don't see them as comparable. Second, the executives are taking that money out of the hands of the stockholders and the employees below them - I don't think you can say the same about J&K. By accepting a free vacation, I don't think they are taking anything that would've been offered to someone else (presumably someone more deserving) otherwise.
Finally, I don't see the equivalency between thought that donated to the Gosselins and shareholders in a company. People who gave to the Gosselins did so of their own free will, and with the only expected reward being the feeling that doing good for others gives you. The Gosselins don't "owe" these people anything except for gratitude. Stockholders buy stock with the expectation of a financial reward, and have reason to be upset when the company they've invested in is mismanaged and they lose money as a result.
Anya,
I think it will be Brooke/Warren. She looks amazing for having 4 kids. Darn her........
I know off topic. :)
Quoting from the article:
If we’re rewarding people on the basis of fertility, shouldn’t the prizes go to the least blessed?
Ah, they were the least blessed fertility wise. They had to have help to get those kids. Being one of the less fertile-ly blessed myself, I find that statement to be sort of cruel. But the fact that I'm not going to have fertility treatments doesn't make my story more interesting to people. All those kids and how two parents manage is interesting. Regardless of money.
Kelley,
Well said!!! Same boat on fertility issues.
Do I really care what some man wrote in some paper? The real news must be slacking. It's the same beating of the same old drum but with a different face with the same issues. He has a right to his journalistic views and IMO feel he just used information already is being talked about surrounding the G's. It's like thanks for your insight but it doesn't mean I'll be changing my mind because you had to fill space in your newspaper.
You know, Kelley, I thought the same thing - to refer to the Gosselins' "fertility" twice in the same short article seemed insensitive if not ignorant. It did not improve my opinion of the author much.
Guinevere,
I do get your points but what I want to stress is that the feeling came before the analogy. Just had no other way to put it to words. If they would just be upfront with being in a much better position financially than when the show began, perhaps I would not feel so negatively towards them. If they stop taking "love offerings" at speaking engagements (and maybe they already have)and stop offering budget tips when they appear on national talk shows and in magazines as if they live under the same constraints as the average family this would be a start. It would be great to see them do more for others in need now that their needs are being met.
Anonymous, I was unable to approve your recent message because we do not allow anonymous comments. Please pick a user name and repost, so that we can discuss the heretofore unexamined issue of the Gosselins' "greed".
Cheers Monica! Hang in there, if Kids are what you want don't give up! Lots of wonderful babies need homes!
I do get your points but what I want to stress is that the feeling came before the analogy. Just had no other way to put it to words. If they would just be upfront with being in a much better position financially than when the show began, perhaps I would not feel so negatively towards them. If they stop taking "love offerings" at speaking engagements (and maybe they already have)and stop offering budget tips when they appear on national talk shows and in magazines as if they live under the same constraints as the average family this would be a start. It would be great to see them do more for others in need now that their needs are being met.
Ruthe, I think if the show gives you a bad feeling, you are right not to watch it any more. There's no point in watching a TV show that's meant to be entertaining if it upsets you! Years ago I had to stop watching "Melrose Place" because I realized I was actually angry at the end of the episode; the hijinks of the characters actually really got to me!
I don't think that the Gosselins should stop taking "love offerings" if they are in lieu of speaker fees at speaking engagements. From everything I've heard, love offerings are standard practice and have nothing to do with the financial situation of the speaker. I can see how hearing budget tips would annoy you, but some people may still find them useful, and even if the Gosselins don't *have* to be frugal any more, that doesn't mean they aren't. It's like, would you not want budgeting tips from Suze Orman because she's rich?
Finally, I just don't feel that *I* have the right to tell anyone, much less a total stranger, how much or how little they should be helping others. That's definitely a case where I feel like I should worry about my ownself and let other people do what they are going to do. In any case, I think the Gosselins are kind of damned if they do and damned if they don't, because we don't *know* what they give to charity, but any time we do see examples of charitable donations on their parts (the check to the Ronald McDonald house, the garage sale), people scream damage control.
You guys have said each and every thing on my mind regarding this article! I really appreciate how this blog does allow balance-- as we all know GWOP does not give creedence to anything that resembles positive Gosselin thinking. Its unfortunate so many people feel it necessary to look down on Jon and Kate for their decisions... makes me sad for how their 'real lives' must be. For my part, again, I feel they are innocent until PROVEN guilty-- that means in an article from someone who does not review TV shows (or approve of Cloris! LOL!)
Perhaps the writer was contacted by one of the GWOP posters and they are eager to share his article with everyone? Perhaps he came to his conclusions all by himself, without their help? Who knows what the story behind the story is.
The reality is that some people love the show, some people hate it and some, like me, are in the middle. I don't like Kate, I do like Jon some of the time but I think all of those children are wonderful all of the time and that's why I watch it.
It may have been something approaching reality in the beginning but now it's entertainment and there's nothing wrong with that.
Kelley-
Hello to a fellow freelancer!
We won't just delete it and have it disappear like it never happened or did not exist.
You made me lol.
I appreciate how this blog is run and the energy the admins put into it.
Nothing new in the article that most of us haven't read a bunch of times.
BTW, I love Cloris Leachman I consider her a master of her craft. I haven't watched DWTS.
Guinevere- you touched on something that bothers me more and more as time goes on-- the fact that so many seem to just loathe this show, yet still tune in and give not only ratings, but ad dollars and publicity. I have a few shows I just can't stomach (like the Dr 90210 stuff or a lot of the crazy TLC shows with half ton people)... I sometimes catch a few minutes then just have to walk away.
Its personal responsibility-- if you really wanted to advocate for the kids (like really, truly) then watching and promoting the show is the last thing you would do.
That being said, it also irks me how many see the fact that they "ZOMG stopped watching months ago but can't wait for the recap because they are just SOO funny and wonderful." How is that hurting the Gosselins? How is it bad for them to have more people talking about them and thinking about them? (Psst-- the answer is that it doesn't!)
I guess my point is that every one of us makes choices that are right for us. Like Guin and many others have said, if you don't like it then don't watch it. End of story.
Yet another article this time from the Reading Eagle, hometown paper.
http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=114198
Guinevere,
Last post and I promise I won't take up any more of your time. Luckily we know in advance what the upcoming episodes are about and no, I have not and will not watch the cali/hawaii vacation episodes. The yard sale might be fun though. Concerning the lack of originality of the contents of the Herald article how about the constant rehash of the "same old, same old" articles written about the Gosselins. In addition, every budget tip Kate gives i.e. coupon clipping, brown bagging and layaway are anything but original. Now I far as I know, the love offerings at speaking engagements are in addition to their agreed upon speaking fees and paid travel expenses but if you have attended one and know differently then so be it. Lastly, concerning any and all chartible donations I feel they are morally compelled to give because "to much is given, much is expected" or because they are Christians, "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you". Beyond that I feel it is far better to be damned if you do than if you don't.
nc resident,
Thanks for the link. I had just seen this. It is interesting that the number of positive articles in major magazines and newspapers as well major network shows such as GMA and Regis and Kelly all featured this family, but this article in the Reading on line newspaper and the one in the Boston paper is the hot topic of discussion. When we featured posts regarding these other major articles, we couldn't drum up any interest from those people that dislike that family.
Right back at cha Samanthanc!
And Gwinevere, I agree insensitive and ignorant and mostly unnecessary commentary that really didn't do much for his article. Glad I wasn't just being overly sensitve due to my personal situaton.
Whoah,
Look what happens when I'm working, LOL!
Thought the article was boring. Period. Nothing we haven't seen or heard before.
And, for the record, I'm not the "momofone" who posted!
Cincymom here: I must be doing something wrong. Everytime I try to post it doesn't recognize me.
I think the article was interesting if only for the fact that a national publication with respect took a moment to question the value of the show. All others (Today Show, Regis & Kelly, Bonnie Hunt, 700 Club) have been "swimmingly" non-judgmental about anything.
Also--I saw the Hayes family on GMA today and thought how interesting their appearance was compared to J&K. The dad ignored the interviewer several times to address the needs of his kids. And the mom said they aren't special, just ordinary. On the other hand, I remember a quote (remind me if I'm wrong) from Kate that said "life will never be the same. We'll always have to deal with/ be pointed at (can't remember) as the family with sextuplets. I can't help but think the McCoys (horribly wrong spelling) and the Dilleys seem to have done quite a GREAT job to remind their kids and themselves that they are just like others.
Cincymom
None of those other publications I mentioned are respectful?
Why do we need to question the value of the show? It is entertainment, just like other shows.
STILL CAN'T RESPOND WITH MY ACCOUNT! HELP!!!
Anyway I am Cincymom and responding to:
Nina Bell said...
Cincymom
None of those other publications I mentioned are respectful?
Why do we need to question the value of the show? It is entertainment, just like other shows.
___________________
I just REALLY want to say it is great this site allows all points and doesn't edit to its advantage. How great people can talk and respond with different opinions.
Anyway, I don't think the other pubs aren't respectful--I'm just saying it was all quite "PC."
Hi Jon & Kate--what beautiful children--how did you feel when you found out you were having sextuplets? How do you handle the monthly budget? How do you do it?
There weren't any hard questions about "how does this affect the kids?" or "how do you think making the choice to bring in cameras has affected your family?
I don't think it has to all be negative but to not acknowledge there are some pluses/ minuses for the choices is a bit simpleton.
Truly--I don't know what I would have chosen had I been in their spot. Never once questioned the reproductive choice. Just have thought at some point pluses/minuses of the camera situation would be inevitably discussed.
Cincy Mom
Not sure what is wrong with your account but I will post as long as you let us know your screen name. You can type your screen name in under Name/URL also.
I understand what you are saying. It would be great if one writer could perhaps show both sides in one article. Does anyone recall any magazine or newspaper doing this?
There you go sister! That is all I meant and much more eloquently said!
I think he made some valid points, but it is obvious he doesn't like the show. It is his opinion, so I don't see the need to trash him.
Does anyone remember the Washington Post article a few months back? That poor woman was berated by the anti's. These people questioned her ethics and called her "irresponsible" for having a positive opinion of a REALITY SHOW. There were comments from people who were going out of their way to find out who she was and threatening to write letters to her boss declaring her an "incompetent journalist". The WP actually had to close comments presumably because this person was being harrassed.
What little bit of critism this man got for the BH article was tame in comparison.
Yet another article this time from the Reading Eagle, hometown paper.
http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=114198
Well, being one of the sheeple and all, I'm sure my opinion will be taken with a grain of salt, but the writer is quite the crank, isn't he? Jon and Kate are dull, and the kids have no personalities? I objected to the earlier article on basis of the fact that it was just a rehash of anti-Gosselin talking points. But this seems to be too far in the other direction, coming with criticisms I've never heard before. J&K are boring? That's not something I've even heard the haters say.
The kids don't have distinct personalities? I wonder if he's not a regular viewer; it took me a while to be able to tell the little ones apart and get a sense of each one's personality. But that doesn't mean they don't have personalities.
Whatever. Maybe because I've heard a few things about that paper in relation to the Gosselins, I get the slight sense of axe grinding. Or maybe he really finds the show boring. No skin off of my nose if he does.
I would be happy to read an article that wasn't a PR puff piece or a bitter hit job. I'm not sure that the New Yorker will be calling any day now, though. To the "outside world", J&K+8 is light entertainment, a cute basic cable television show. We may think it's worthy of dissection, but I'm not sure an actual journalist would agree.
Last post and I promise I won't take up any more of your time.
Ruthe, you're not taking up my time. This is a discussion board, so it's good to have people who want to discuss things!
In addition, every budget tip Kate gives i.e. coupon clipping, brown bagging and layaway are anything but original.
You may well be right. Honestly, I haven't paid much attention to what she has to say on the subject (maybe I should; I am sooo bad with money!). As I said, I could see it being irritating to have Kate Gosselin held up as some sort of money-saving guru, but ultimately, I don't see it as a big deal, or really related to the issues that some people have with Kate's personality. If a talk show wants to book her and have her talk about that stuff, you can watch it or not watch it. It's like people who get so worked up about Rachael Ray and her cooking and her show, etc. You don't like it, don't watch. Again, I understand that when you don't like a personality or don't think that they have the authority to speak on a particular subject, it can be annoying, but beyond that I don't see getting too worked up about it (I'm not saying you are, Ruthe).
Now I far as I know, the love offerings at speaking engagements are in addition to their agreed upon speaking fees and paid travel expenses but if you have attended one and know differently then so be it.
No, I haven't attended an appearance. I'm only going by what numerous people have said about love offerings being something that are collected in church in lieu of a speaker's fee. I have not heard anyone speak knowledgably to the contrary.
Lastly, concerning any and all chartible donations I feel they are morally compelled to give because "to much is given, much is expected" or because they are Christians, "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you". Beyond that I feel it is far better to be damned if you do than if you don't.
But you don't know that they don't give, right? So you may in fact be damning them unfairly. Just a thought.
I chalk up Kate to being a spokesperson for Kmart as the stupidity of television. I'm guessing Kate just sees it as a job. Even us poor people hate Kmart. Blech!! I avoid that store as much as possible and it's not cheap!
Also a thought on the giving back. Since J&K are devout, they probably tithe a 10th of their income to their church. Sorry, if that's been mentioned before.
First time poster but I wanted to say that I appreciate the overall tone of this blog- it leans towards more common sense posting (whether it’s positive or negative), and away from the hyperbole you see at places like GWOP. I just couldn’t stand another ‘My heart BROKE…” I LOVE these PRECIOUS children…” “The ABUSE that I saw tonight made me WEEP…” type of post. It’s just so ridiculous.
I watch the show because it’s interesting, and I’m nosy, and I like seeing how other families live- down to the most mundane details. The kids are funny, Kate has a dry sense of humor that I appreciate, and I find Jon & Kate’s interactions sometimes really sweet and sometimes really awful.
I do have some concerns about the fairness of the situation in regards to the money- I live in LA, and know several parents who have kids that are involved in modeling and/or acting, and so you do hear parents talking about their kids’ “Coogan”- as in “I always take out $20 for gas for each audition, and he gets $20 to spend the way he wants, but the rest goes into his Coogan.” I do wish that this law extended to kids on reality shows, so that each of the Gosselin kids came out of this with a guaranteed bank account, and that this was not left up to K&J’s discretion.
That aside, I do feel like so much of the criticism comes from the fact that what the G’s are doing is not mainstream or normal- that somehow this show would be more acceptable to the critics if Jon had kept his IT job and they didn’t travel as much, and didn’t get to sit in club seats for Phillies games or be on the cover of magaines.
There are tons of kids who are being raised in situations that are not status quo. There are families who homeschool their kids, families that live in an RV and travel round the country, families that live in log cabins in the middle of the wilderness with no running water or electricity. I guess I just add the Gosselins to the list of people who are doing things differently, and I don’t think that automatically means that their kids are screwed. God knows that plenty of screwed up kids come out of totally “normal” family situations.
So I’ll keep watching till I’m not entertained, have a little niggling voice that says that the kids should be compensated individually, and if I become disgusted or bored----Delete Season Pass takes care of that in one click of my remote.
Because I've been kinda rough on other threads I was gonna come in here and sing Baa Baa black sheep. Just as a joke. Then I thought about being politically correct. I thought well someone might feel I am racist, or PETA might whip me feeling I was picking on animals. Quinevere might feel I was being rude as she now identifies herself as a sheeple LOL . Or worse yet that I need singing lessons.
My point, my meds are kicking in and it is about time LOL. When most people, like myself, write on blogs, they tend to at least be politically correct. Some are not, but decent people tend to have a little bit of politeness. This article contained no news worthy info, cited nothing in particular, and was rude while picking on a medical issue with Kate, and I'm not a J&K fan. The only thing I learned is this paper still dislikes this family alot. If they have a factual reason to dislike them not an emotional one we should see it. If they do a good deed we should see that as well.
I thought the guy's article was ridiculous, and I sent him a short, polite email telling him so. Well...maybe it wasn't all that polite.
Anonymous said...
Cincymom here: I must be doing something wrong. Everytime I try to post it doesn't recognize me.
Also--I saw the Hayes family on GMA today and thought how interesting their appearance was compared to J&K. The dad ignored the interviewer several times to address the needs of his kids. And the mom said they aren't special, just ordinary. On the other hand, I remember a quote (remind me if I'm wrong) from Kate that said "life will never be the same. We'll always have to deal with/ be pointed at (can't remember) as the family with sextuplets. I can't help but think the McCoys (horribly wrong spelling) and the Dilleys seem to have done quite a GREAT job to remind their kids and themselves that they are just like others.
OT, I guess, but the Hayes family *appears* to be nice, normal, and happy. With 2 more kids and one of those being disabled, mom wasn't sitting around lamenting about how exhausted she was! Fun to watch, for now. I only hope TLC doesn't go overboard and Gosselinize them!
I watched the Hayes family too. It reminded me very much of the "living with twins and sextuplets" documentaries of the Gs years ago.
My prediction is things will change drastically for this family as well - their financial freedom.
Whenever I hear K say she's exhausted, I dismiss it almost immediately. Because truth of the matter be told, it's the editing. SURE, she says it, maybe a few times a day, maybe more. The editors have definitely honed in on it and now we notice it - alhtough I don't notice it as much lately.
With 10 kids, there is no doubt that Mom Hayes is indeed exhausted!
It's interesting...if a postive article comes out- GWOP says "they never watch the show" if a negative one "Yeah,their ship is sinking".
For this blog it is similar.. a positive one " Glad others see the positive also"...a negative one "oh, they must read GWOP and never see the show"
I feel bad for anybody who writes anything in the media about this family anymore. They are usually bombarded with letters from angry people from both sides.
It's almost a competition betwen this blog and GWOP when the J&K get press.
Is it positive or negative? Did we win or did they? It's getting crazy.
Whenever I see Kate (definitely my least favorite person on the show) in the early special on surviving sextuplets and twins, I am always surprised at how normal and not-too-diva she seems. Not too much like the Kate you see today.
Maybe Figure 8 or TLC originally thought that emphasizing the "crazy" part of Kate would drive ratings. And it has.
I don't like the way she behaves most of the time but many others do. TLC is counting on the fact that when Kate's on camera it's not boring.
Vob said...
I do have some concerns about the fairness of the situation in regards to the money- I live in LA, and know several parents who have kids that are involved in modeling and/or acting, and so you do hear parents talking about their kids’ “Coogan”- as in “I always take out $20 for gas for each audition, and he gets $20 to spend the way he wants, but the rest goes into his Coogan.” I do wish that this law extended to kids on reality shows, so that each of the Gosselin kids came out of this with a guaranteed bank account, and that this was not left up to K&J’s discretion.
----------------------------------
I couldn't agree more. That's my main issue with all these reality shows that involve kids. (There seems to be a new one every day..and does TLC really need TWO shows with a family with multiples?)
This is my take and my opinion. This is what I find interesting. When a positive article comes out about the Gosselins (and we have to admit at this point they far out weight the negative), you don't even see it mentioned on GWoP as a main post or a point of discussion. When I go to the comment section on the website of a positive article, all I really see is a bunch of commenters bashing the magazine, website or writer. There many be a one or two people that are trying to post in support of the writer or magazine. The negative commenters and people posting at GWoP immediately want to start a letter writing campaign to boycott the magazine or TV show or whoever cast the Gosselins in a positive light. The comments become quite nasty. They take over total control of the comment section and anyone pro Gosselin quickly exits in frustration.
Now, I just read the comments section of the Boston Herald, and I saw none of that from the pro Gosselin crowd. In fact, what I saw was just more anti-Gosselins commenting their same points that I read over at GWoP. I don't recall anyone here posting to boycott the newspaper or to have a massive write in campaign.
By the way, there is no winning in this situation. This is not a game. This is a real family. Real human beings.
Someone needs to remember that.
Also no one from this blog is contacting the media, newspapers, Bill O'Reilley, Oprah, or President Elect Obama.
This is a source of entertainment.
Nina Bell said.....
Also no one from this blog is contacting the media, newspapers, Bill O'Reilley, Oprah, or President Elect Obama.
This is a source of entertainment.
----------------------------------
Contacting those kinds of journalists doesn't really bother me. It was when I saw on poster on GWOP said that they were contacting people Like PerezHilton.com that I knew it was time for me to stop reading that site. Perez Hilton draws things like genitalia on pictures..amoung other things. Do they believe having him deface some Gosselin picture is in the best interest of the kids?
Well Lori
That is exactly my point. When does it stop and how far does it go? There is a way to get your point across. Having a blog and posting factual information - I have no problem with that. Campaigning to have laws to regulate children in Reality TV - I am all for that.
Letter writing campaigns that are based on FACTUAL information - go for it.
I am really not seeing that at GWoP.
"You know, Kelley, I thought the same thing - to refer to the Gosselins' "fertility" twice in the same short article seemed insensitive if not ignorant. It did not improve my opinion of the author much."
But without the Gosselins' fertility, there would be no show. It's pertinent.
HBIC8u,
You said in your post that what this man got in comparison to another article is mild. How do we know how much grief he got? There are a lot of very defensive Gosselin fans that might not post here. They might flood him with e-mails, etc. Even if what you say is true, does it make it any better than what GWOP does?
I had to agree with the comment posted by Erin. It is such a strange back and forth. I enjoy this site, and the lively debates. But I take no solace in thinking I am any better that the posters on GWOP. Most of the time I think I am kind of strange for being involved at all. I know--just walk away. But I can't! I guess I do have a Kate trait after all--I keep thinking I'll get in the last word. LOL
The thing I think that bugs me the most about this whole controversy is how (at least at GWOP) they hide behind the "child-advocacy." Like writing letters makes everything bad they say all right. What do you think those children are going to say when they find that blog? I guarantee you they're going to find it one day, and they're going to read all of it. They're going to see the comments about how horrible their lives are and how stupid people think their parents to be. But GWOP doesn't think of that. They seriously think that those children are going to drop down on their knees and thank them for being child advocates. Really people?
I know that it's up to Jon and Kate to be the parents and protect their kids from negative controversy like this article and GWOP and others. But all I ever hear is how those kids are going to hate their parents for negatively portraying them. Don't you think they're going to hate the world for talking about it?
I would also like to mention that this article was submitted several times by people with screen names that never posted here. Obviously that was done in order to "rub it into someone's face" in my opinion.
Ahhh. The maturity level of GWoP strikes again. Is is any wonder that I'll never take them (or the reporters they harangue into submission) seriously?
Now, I just read the comments section of the Boston Herald, and I saw none of that from the pro Gosselin crowd. In fact, what I saw was just more anti-Gosselins commenting their same points that I read over at GWoP.
Which is what they do at GWoP. They follow, harass and flood mailboxes full of hateful comments, no matter if the article is positive of negative. It must be draining, carrying around all that sanctimony and loathing (not to mention a sizable cross) on your back everyday.
Maybe we're better off. We watch the show because we enjoy it. We actually have lives away from the computer. We don't spend so much time and energy on the negative. We don't live our lives in a constant state of schadenfreude. Hell, if all that means I'm a Sheeple, bring it on.
Life's to short to be GWoPped.
Anya said...
Nina Bell said...We will discuss it. We won't just delete it and have it disappear like it never happened or did not exist.
Why, I haven't a CLUE who in the world you could be talking about there, Nina.
November 17, 2008 2:04 PM
----
And no chicken sh#t anon posters...that is what really gets me overthere. All of the "regulars" are gone...I guess they feel that posting anon is better.
I thought the Hayes family show was awesome. Those parents are amazing. So level-headed, laid back, calm and good natured. Now, that's not a dig at Jon & Kate.
I think it's interesting because it shows what it's like as a normal family with multiples. Working parents struggling with minimal help and minimal funds. I'll continue to watch both shows but I don't consider them similar. J&K is now about the life of celebrities (nothing wrong with that) and the new show is about a family with multiples. I think I'll enjoy both.
Also no one from this blog is contacting the media, newspapers, Bill O'Reilley, Oprah, or President Elect Obama.
This is a source of entertainment.
November 18, 2008 6:18 AM
---
Oohh Nina,
I can only imagine how many letters have been addressed to Obama. LOL!!!!
How do we know how much grief he got? There are a lot of very defensive Gosselin fans that might not post here. They might flood him with e-mails, etc. Even if what you say is true, does it make it any better than what GWOP does?
Okay, fair enough.
So, I went back and read through the comments and there was not one that was even remotely threatening in nature. I guess there is the possiblity of email, but I guess I'll never know.
And yeah, there is a BIG difference between disagreeing with someone and attacking them personally.
But I take no solace in thinking I am any better that the posters on GWOP.
Really? I do. I take solace in knowing that I can disagree with another person's way of life without feeling the need to bash them continuously, or post their personal information all over the internet. I don't feel the need to crucify someone based on a heavily edited tv show and internet rumor. And I don't use child advocacy as an excuse to get on a soapbox and rant about how I am a superior parent.
So yeah, I have a problem with gwop's message and I won't apologize for it. Hate is not advocacy in any way, shape, or form. Period.
I actually didn't really find the Hayes to be very interesting. Not a cut at them it's just that we've seen it before.
And all I could think when I was watching was what GWOP was going to say about the fact that those kids didn't come out of cribs until they were almost 5!
HBIC8u,
I'm glad that you feel good about comparing yourselves to the GWOP group. Again, what I have stated was my opinion and mine alone. I just see a pattern that appears from time to time. If a thread starts here, bashing someone--and it is brought to everyone's attention--the refrain starts "at least we aren't as bad as the GWOP trolls." If we can't see the irony in this, then maybe some perspective has been lost. Again --just my opinion. I know this is for entertainment, but does anyone find the parallel between the GWOP site loving to hate the Gosselins, and SOME people on this site loving to hate the GWOP group. Just a thought.
I think they were in cribs because Dad had to put them together when he wasn't working. They did sit in real chairs, carry their own plates to the table and drink from actual cups without lids. I liked the family. While I am not big on the whole bathroom scene stuff, they were actually playing in the tub, not being "showered" It was cute the way they handled the bathroom incident at the restaurant - "you look like a princess"
I know this is for entertainment, but does anyone find the parallel between the GWOP site loving to hate the Gosselins, and SOME people on this site loving to hate the GWOP group.
No I don't bc as far as I know we don't wish to "take them down", trash eveything about them, obsess over everything they have/receive, HARSHLY criticize their children/parenting skills/new homes/wardrobe/hair color/choice in peanut butter etc. In fact the reason I dislike them at all is bc they are sooooo RUDE in general and all in the name of advocacY/BS
I'm glad that you feel good about comparing yourselves to the GWOP group.
Don't misunderstand me. I was speaking for myself, no one else. And I don't compare myself to them. However, you implied that those who disagreed with the Boston Herald article were only trashing the author because we are so "pro-Gosselin" that we couldn't possibly believe that someone would write a negative article about them unless prompted to by gwop. You followed up by saying that was no reason to trash him. I was simply pointing out gwop has been known to do it's own trashing.
If we can't see the irony in this, then maybe some perspective has been lost.
That depends on what perspective you started with. I don't claim to be advocating for some higher purpose. I personally don't think Kate needs me to defend her, and sometimes there's not much of a defense. I don't know why it matters to some why anyone else posts here.
Where is the irony? I don't care for the gwop's message and I talk about it here. So what? I don't stalk these people. I don't care where the work or what family members they do or don't have relationships with. Their homes, neighbors, friends, and finances are none of my concern.
Maybe I haven't been clear. I don't care if you don't love Kate Gosselin. I don't. I don't even care if you snark on her hair or the size of her ass(I think it's childish and mean, but you are entitled to your opinion). Taking shots at the kids, posting personal information, and spreading your rumor based opinion as fact in an attempt to "take down" a family? That's what gets me. I refer to them as "gwoppers" because gwop allows those things to go on. Not everyone that disagrees with what this family does is that way, as evident by several of the posters on this blog.
I know this is for entertainment, but does anyone find the parallel between the GWOP site loving to hate the Gosselins, and SOME people on this site loving to hate the GWOP group. Just a thought.
I don't go out of my way to visit that site everyday so that I can come over here and bitch about it. In fact, I don't go there at all. It pisses me off, so I choose not to read it.
I think you are exactly right about them, though.
I promise--this is my last post :).
Here is my perspective. As I have said before, I enjoy the show. The parallel I was referring to is GWOP would not have any drama without Kate to hate. This site would not have drama without Julie, and GWOP. Again-just my opinion. I think the discussions are lively. I just never watched an episode--asking myself--how will "they" trash this. A lot of folks say they rarely visit GWOP, but the minute something outrageous is posted there, it is a big topic. That does add to the debate. They are the drama. IMO
I never really thought of GWOP as an advocacy site. It seems to me they started it mostly to have a place to go when TWOP shut down the J&K thread. I don't have an issue with them being critical of things J&K do or say, it is what happens to people who chose to be on reality TV. After reading TWOP for years maybe I'm immune to those kind of posts.I rarely read over there because post after post of criticism is monotonous. I read message boards about TV shows I watch to find other people's take on what I see and this is my go-to board for J&K. A little balance is more interesting.
Kate is a perfect for reality TV because she doesn't care what people think. She gets what she wants out of it; security for her family and amazing places to visit. So what if some boards/blogs hate her, I'm sure that's a minor blip on her radar.
Florida Mom
I think you are forgetting the whole Penn Mommy fiasco. Drama at its best.
I started this blog. From the beginning we stated that we wanted to discuss the issues surrounding Jon and Kate Plus 8. We made it clear that those issues included GWoP. This blog was not started to discuss the show only. Some people ( and I am not saying you) can not get past that.
Rain 88,
It isn't just about the hateful remarks or snarky comments. There was a definite line crossed.
I think that Kate is the way she is because that's how she was raised. I don't have a problem with her. She says that she doesn't care what people think, but deep down inside I'm sure she does.
Nina Bell,
Yikes! It's me again! I am embarrassed to admit that I never read the purpose for this blog. Blogging is really new to me. I've found myself really drawn to this one. Kudos to you. You have always been very respectful of my opinions and I appreciate that. I am also very embarrassed to admit that I was drawn into the Penn Mommy thing hook, line, and sinker. That tells you how new I am to the blogosphere. I couldn't imagine someone giving such a detailed account of something so tragic. I kept thinking, "Why would someone make that up?" I was very hard on Guin, because I thought she was being insensitive. So, I should take into consideration,that those of you who have been in the blogosphere awhile, have been burned. Anyway, I think I have used up all my words for a while.(famous last words :)
I just never watched an episode--asking myself--how will "they" trash this. A lot of folks say they rarely visit GWOP, but the minute something outrageous is posted there, it is a big topic. That does add to the debate. They are the drama. IMO
Honestly, I don't really look for the "how will they trash this" moments, I just know them when I see them, and it does suck some of the fun of watching the show out of it for me.
There are a lot of people here that do read gwop and will tell you so, and it only takes one to bring the info here and start a conversation about it. I think it's unlikely that you'll find a bunch of closet gwop readers here.
So, I should take into consideration,that those of you who have been in the blogosphere awhile, have been burned.
That's very true. I think part of the problem is that to many people(myself included) tend to lump people into this group or gwop, which isn't really fair. I do tend to think that many of the less extreme haters wind up here eventually because they want to discuss the issues but aren't into all of the other things that go on at gwop.
*I have a really bad cold and have been doped up on meds all day so my head is fuzzy--I'm having trouble putting my thoughts into words so I hope I'm making sense:-)
Roy Stated:"But without the Gosselins' fertility, there would be no show. It's pertinent."
Quoting the article:
"TLC's Favorite FERTILE couple..."
"If we're rewarding people based on FERTILITY shouldn't the rewards go to the least blessed"
Kelley Responds:
I'm not suggesting that their fertility issues are off limits. I am pointing out that he used the words incorrectly in his article. If Jon and Kate had spontaneously concieved sextuplets, then they would be TLC's Fertile couple. However due to Kate's INFERTILITY, they had to go through In-Utero Insemination treatments and therefore would be called "TLC's favorite INFERTILE" couple, but that wouldn't sound very nice would it? I'm saying he mis-labeled them in the opening phrase of his Article and then was crass about them being rewarded for their "Fertility" and using a terriblely offensive and inaccurate metaphor in the middle of his article. Bad writing is bad writing and insensitive is just insensitive.
Kelley said...I'm saying he mis-labeled them in the opening phrase of his Article and then was crass about them being rewarded for their "Fertility" and using a terriblely offensive and inaccurate metaphor in the middle of his article. Bad writing is bad writing and insensitive is just insensitive."
Well, said Kelley. I still can't believe this guy writes for a fairly large newspaper.
A slapdash and insensitive article all around and he deserves to be called on it.
Before I commented about this on my blog I wanted people here to read what a person named Alana wrote yesterday on GWOP of those that like Jon & Kate:
"Finally, I've come to the conclusion that the major difference between the 'fans' who still love the JOK Show and the former fans who 'get it' is EDUCATION. IMO, the KON fans can relate to Jon and Kate. They aren't very smart, never finished school (COLLEGE), married young and had children right away,tend to think for the moment instead of planning, are selfish in a negative way, have a "me-too" mentality to go with their "me-first" attitude,never set short term goals in order to meet long-term goals, have jobs instead of careers, and argue and fight with extended family members because the drama gives them the adrenaline rush they need to get off their a___s!"
This to me sounds like the most uneducated person I can think of. Who would allow this to be written. Also, alot of the post have spelling errors in them. I thought those were not allowed to be published? These few people with the hundreds of Anons all sound like one blended person to me. Kind of like the person who wrote that article.
baby mama--
I have seen a lot of posts like that claiming Jon and Kate fans 'have no souls' and 'would allow children to be consistently harmed' as well as what you copied that we are apparently uneducated women who are barefoot and pregnant at 16 with no drive (no offense to anyone who had a baby young at all-- my sister in law had her first when she was 16 and while she now knows it was not the best choice she also has grown into a phenomenal person through that situation).
Personally, I am 1/3 of the way done with my Masters degree and am one of four professionals running a management company that handles over 600 contractors a week. I'm single, 28, and looking to buy my first house soon (its a buyers market!) I am definitely a planner (to my boyfriend's chagrin!) and adore children- I was a nanny at a few different points in my life, have helped run a day care, and spend as much time as possible with my nephew.
All that to say-- apparently many of us are not what the haters expect to encounter :)! They expect that naive sheeple mentality, and (especially at this blog, as well as yours baby mama) are met with people who think logically and make smart decisions.
I actually am not offended by those comments made, though... I'm more sad that people feel the need to belittle others so they can feel good about themselves.
Hey Baby Mama,
That sounds like me. Can I just say that I had my first child at 26. I have my Master's Degree and have successfully completed a Fellowship at Rutgers. My parent's are still living and I have 5 brothers and sisters and I have a great relationship with all of them. I definitely have a career and have set and met all of my goals. I will be retiring at 55 and plan to volunteer on a regular basis. Volunteering is not new to me and I have received recognition for my efforts from the mayor of the very large city that I live in.
So sure, I fit the bill of being uneducated selfish trash who enjoys fighting with my family.
That is a pretty ridiculous statement, Baby Mama, if you ask me. It doesn't matter if you have a child at age 18 or married when you were 40. Educational background does not indicate what type of person you are or how you treat other human beings.
The person that made that statement is ignorant in my mind.
er... yeah... what Nina Bell said! :)
(I have four brothers, Nina, and also have great relationships with them and their spouses-- how did you like growing up in a big family?)
Lizabeth,
Loved it. But that was not considered big in my time. Many families had 10 to 14 children. Our family was average.
Baby Mama, Thanks for the heads up. Made me laugh! Ignorance at it's finest.
Nina Bell,
A new day. Time to open mouth and switch feet. I took the time to really read the posts at GWOP. ( I had only looked at it on occasion, and I guess had read mostly benign posts.) I really took the time to read a lot of posts. MEA CULPA. There are some wackos. I have seen the light.
Disregard previous posts and have a great evening everyone.
floridamom- at least for my part, I appreciate your willingness to be honest in your new views on all of this :). That is another (of the many) reason(s) why I really prefer this site-- people are adults! We admit when we are wrong, are willing to try to see things differently, and treat each other with respect. Its a pretty neat place to be :)!
It isn't about being against every single poster that has ever done anything with GWoP, then heating up the tar and plucking feathers for their demise-- its about seeing that a majority of the things said there are hateful, malicious, detrimental, and just not cool...
P.S.--there is this one person(@GWOP) named anonymous that is almost as wordy as I am :).
Wow, I knew I was hanging with a smart and savvy group of ladies. Thanks for sharing a bit more about who you are.
I haven't achieved everything I want to in my life, but I am working on it! I had my daughter at 23. I work full-time. I do have a career and have been promoted several times. I go to school part-time and am determined to get my BA and not stop until I get my Master's. Oh yeah, my family gets on my nerves, but I am not estranged from anyone...!
Anya, aka Fangirl
Alana on GWoP says..."and argue and fight with extended family members because the drama gives them the adrenaline rush they need to get off their a___s!"
Well, I don't know the rest of her story, but this particular description sounds like a carbon copy of Julie.
Florida Mom
Your are too funny!
I just love coming here at the end of my day to read your comments. Some of them make me laugh.
I come from a family of seven children. Four girls and three boys. We have always been a really close family growing up and now. My husband and I have three children right now, but we plan on having more.
I can relate to the Gosselins large family. I remember doing fun things as a large group. The more the merrier I always say.
Jon and Kate are doing the best that they can. Having a large number of children is not an easy job. I'm sure that Jenny is a big help, but I would also like to see someone a little bit older helping Jon and Kate.
Happymama (like your name!), it's nice to see you posting.
Coming from a smallish family, I am a bit envious of those who come from large ones. Funny: this is what I more desirous of - not the "free things" that others claim the Gosselins did not earn. Hmmm. And who are the small minded ones? Like everything in life, however, it's what we make of the relationships we do have and I know I get off easy at Christmas and other holidays because my shopping list isn't a mile long....
I can see your point about having some older folks involved in the kids life, but I'll repeat what others have said before, just because it's not shown on the show doesn't mean it's not happening.
LOL Floridamom! Anonymous is TOO WORDY!
From,
Saint,
I have a master's degree, get along with all family members, pay my taxes, contribute to charity, and have all my teeth.
Anya,
What I should have said, is that I would like to see someone older on the show, helping to take care of the children. I think we wouldn't be hearing so much negative talk, if someone with more experience was supervising the children. I hope that makes sense. :)
happymama said...What I should have said, is that I would like to see someone older on the show, helping to take care of the children. I think we wouldn't be hearing so much negative talk, if someone with more experience was supervising the children. I hope that makes sense. :)
Of course, I totally get your point. I am someone who enjoyed seeing the extended friends and relatives. I actually really liked seeing Jodi, Kevin, Nana Janet, etc. My guess is there are different reasons why these various individuals are not shown on the show anymore. Everything is purely speculation on my part, but there may be some relationships that are currently not going so well (I think we know who those might be) and others people who are involved who just don't want to included in the filming process. I can understand that and it's a downside to what the Gosselins have committed to - some people don't want to give up their privacy and I think most of us understand the reasons behind that.
Lizabeth, just wanted to say congratulations for being 1/3 way through your masters. Good luck with the next 2/3!!!!
Nina and Saint, congratulations on yours as well.
If GWOP is going to let it be a free-for-all for insiders why did they remove all the PM stuff? The remarks about the poster who said tups did not get red and yellow lights every day at school were stunning. They were wondering what kind of parent would look at another child's record.
I must quote one of my fav lines from a movie, Susan Sarandon in Bull Durham:
“The world seems made for those not cursed with self-awareness.”
I really do believe that once these children become older and start school, they may indeed be teased in an awful way. I mean it's not like it used to be when I was in school. Thank goodness, we had no computers, no internet, no blogs, no phones that can take pictures or record videos, ect.
I am dating myself ( :
My point would be that "bullying/teasing" has become Huge in its magnitude(sp) and damage that can be done to someone.
There is no need for the camera crew to focus in on one of the tup boys in just his underwear. They are no longer babies in diapers. It is not cute. I can imagine that image being used in school (later on) to pass around with all of this high-tech phone stuff that they have now. So, I do believe the author of the article has a good point.
Kids naturally want to blend in, not be "different" in anyway, for example, having most of your childhood moments on Dvd's, now being sold or on youtube. It will always be out there. I really do bet that Mady and Cara may already be experiencing this. That makes me feel sad for them, plus I have a feeling of wishing I could protect them myself. I wonder if Kate gets that "mother bear" feel with Mady and Cara on what they may be experiencing at school because of the series.
Yes, some people may say, "Well, we don't know if this is really happening to Mady and Cara and kids will always find something to tease a kid with."
I must say it is very compelling when you read a blog entry claiming to be a distant relative of Jon's side of the family (his mom) that was invited to the "renewing vows" ceremony. These people lived on one of the islands and came to the ceremony and this person describe how they were treated by Kate.
Again, I know people will say, "how do you know this person is not fabricating this experience and pretending to be the relative?"
These are only my views and opinions and observations. It's okay if someone sees it differently as I do.
Anya and floridamom- ditto on the older people there for the kids-- I think I mentioned before a 'deleted' scene on TLC's website talked about Carla giving them a chrysallis... there were no details of if she still spent time with the kids of course, but the whole "ZOMG Where are the lost souls who used to valiantly watch these demon children!!11!" was wrong in at least that case :).
Saint, LOL at your teeth comment-- Me too!!
Merryway, thank you! The next 1/3 is a lot of the financial classes (Statistics, Accounting, etc) which kill me, so it will be a LONG winter... but I'm excited to learn :).
Michelle, I can see why you would feel the way you do about the 'distant relative' and how some of us have said that the kids will be teased regardless of whether they are 'famous.' As far as the anonymous GWoP post, I give that less credit than the statements made from people who attended Jon and Kate's speaking engagements-- unless I see video, pictures, etc I won't believe a single one. That includes the good accounts-- there are many posters who state J & K were wonderful to meet, but unless they have pictures I am not going to take it as gospel.
Just my opinion- I respect yours, but I hope you see those of us here who disagree do so after being burned in the past by "relatives" and "friends" who were "just trying to help the kids"...
I highly doubt that the anonymous poster from GWOP really is a family member. That person just happens across the website and decides to post there (and remain anonymous)? Yeah right. Sounds like PM to me.
Why not just open a thread about GWoP and be done with it? Every Gosselin-related thread here with a new subject is hijacked from the original intent and the discussion becomes about child advocay, mission statements, anonymous posters.
As one previous poster stated, without Kate, no GWoP. Without GWoP, not much GDNP sometimes, it seems.
OK this is off topic but... I was just reading the account of the person who saw their speaking engagements. In the comments (I won't C & P) they are making allegations of child abuse.... what the crap?? One person posted saying they are a neighbor who saw J & K hitting their kids outside, to which the article author said she had no doubt that was going on.
Wow.... just wow... I'll say this as calmly as possible, since child abuse (and CPS claims) are something I take VERY personally*. NO ONE has any right to state something as libelous as that on a blog... that is so unethical as well as (IMO) immoral. If anyone saw abuse then it should have been reported, in which case J & K would be investigated and IF the claims were substantial action would be taken. I am so tired of people pulling this crap... it is something I hope Jon and Kate would prosecute if it continues!
*- Just as a note, my aunt and uncle had CPS called on them by a neighbor after my cousin was upstairs in one of the old school walkers with wheels, and fell down the steps. Complete fluke accident, where my aunt ran to catch the walker as she rolled over and just missed it, and completely the kind of thing parents have nightmares about... This was over 10 years ago and Hailie was not hurt, but the pain that allegation caused was so deep for them. It broke my heart to know how much they went through because someone ran their mouth about something they knew nothing of.
If I were a scammer, I would certainly see GWOP posters as prey. They believe everything on face if it's for the cause
How about: “ If you would like to see J&K taken off the air send $1.00 to..”
Hey Roy -
We kind of like things the way they are. It sounds like you have a problem with us talking about GWoP when we want to.
So next time I want to talk about them, I will ask your permission first.
Hi Lizabeth,
I agree with you about the "abuse" allegations. You just call the appropriate people if you feel you have seen some kind of abuse occurring, so it can be properly investigated. You should not go around making postings of this.
I personally do not believe in disciplining(sp) your children with one's hand or an object to a child. I would call it "hitting" but I also think many people may just call it "spanking" and they feel it is okay. Perhaps Jon and Kate do spank their children and they feel it is okay. Who knows??
But, yes, I would think you need to be careful in throwing around such allegations.
To anyone:
I blog on both sites (this site and GWOP). I really do try and give Kate and Jon the benefit of the doubt and be fair. And I do read (not all, don't have the time ( : )comments on both sites and respect each others opinions and views on how they feel or see Jon and Kate and the show. The entries I never agree with and do not respect are the ones that personally take jabs at them both by making fun of their looks, etc.
I do think the issues of the children's rights are valid issues and concerns, though.
And when I do read about people's "own" accounts about Jon and Kate, I can be shocked by what they are saying and do wonder if it is indeed all true and if so, how awful!
But, I also take whatever I read on a blog (both this one and GWOP) with a grain of salt.
And I do think that Not all the people who blog at GWOP "hate" Jon and Kate. I certainly don't. But, I do admit I do see some valid points when it comes to children and the show.
But again, we all have our own opinions which we should resect as their own except the ones that just plain make fun of Jon or Kate or are mean-spirited.
Lizabeth,
I work in Children's Services and I have to tell you that just because someone spanks (hits) their child, doesn't mean it's child abuse. If that were true, then a large number of parents would be in big trouble. Judge's don't want to take children from their parents. The children do best when they are with their real parents. Child abuse is very involved. If a child is being beaten and there are bruises to prove it (or broken bones) then we would investigate. If one of the Gosselin children were to come to the hospital with broken bones, the doctors and nurses are trained to look for certain things. If the medical team suspects child abuse, then we would be called. If however, just one child is found to be abused in a family, we by law are required to remove ALL the children.
Michelle,
You said "perhaps Jon and Kate spank the children" and "who knows"?
______________
Well Kate has admitted on national television that she spanks the children. So, I guess that answers both the "perhaps" and the "who knows".
I am in agreement with you. I do not believe in spanking with one's hand or an object. A parent should NEVER put their hand (or hands) on a child, except in a loving way. Parents who spank (hit) don't realize the damage that they are doing to that child's ego. Spanking is learned behavior. If someone spanks their child, more than likely, they were spanked by their parent when they were little. We need to break the cycle of spanking. It's not a good thing to do.
Michelle,
As far as my post, it wasn't as much about the spanking (I have my personal views on that which have no bearing here) as it was about the response of "Well if they do that in public, imagine how bad she beats them behind closed doors." While that is not what was directly said, it was definitely implied. Any abuse allegations are either unfounded or hearsay (that word looks funny even though its spelled right!). It seems as though a lot of people start saying things which quickly get out of control (*cough* Penn mommy/CPS posts *cough*) and whether they are true or false it casts a very dark shadow over the Gosselins.
So that was my main point-- just that we all need to be very careful what we say and how we say it, since now as others have mentioned people have stated hearsay (again it looks weird...) as fact. This is so dangerous, and the reason I mentioned the CPS situation regarding my aunt and uncle-- you have to know what is going on for a fact before stating things which are at best partially untrue and at worst devastating to a family.
funny story (well not really funny...) My parents used to spank my sister and me when we were really young- keep in mind they are very loving and wonderful parents, they just did what they were brought up with. Well one day my sister came home from kindergarten with a note from her teacher saying that she hit another student. When my mom asked her why she would hit someone she said "well you hit me." My parents never once spanked us after that.
"Hey Roy -
We kind of like things the way they are. It sounds like you have a problem with us talking about GWoP when we want to.
So next time I want to talk about them, I will ask your permission first."
Nina, defensive much? I don't remember attacking or sounding aggressive in my post.
I said almost every thread on any subject the mods post is turned into a "I hate GWoP" thread or "why we're better than they are."
Not telling anyone what to discuss or not, just saying, consider opening a thread and have a real discussion about GWoP and then let the threads address the subject.
Sometimes a mod comes on and gets a thread back on topic, sometimes not.
It's your blog and you can have consistency or not, I guess. But when the readers are having an interesting discussion and it veers off to discussing GWoP - again - it detracts from the substance of the thread.
And, quite frankly, makes some of the threads sound as rabid about GWoP as the posters on GWoP sound about J&K.
Roy
Not defensive at all. I am just wondering if you are aware how you sound when you come on this site? You were not even participating in this thread. But as a commenter, you certainly could get the thread back on topic if you wanted to.
I have explained before on this site that many times when I mod, it is from my Blackberry and I am not able to post on the computer.
Why not email me and give me your suggestions. In essence your post is doing the very thing that you are complaining about.
Roy
One more thing. GWoP is very much entwined in many of the issues that are addressed in these posts. That is why many of the commenters refer to them. It is very clear that we make every attempt not to reject comments. So if the thread wonders once and awhile, so be it. All of the mods here have full time jobs and some are also in school. This is not a job, but a hobby. We are not perfect. If you have issues, an email would be appreciated.
Nina, I think a lot has to do with the lag between posts.
You say I wasn't a commenter on the thread (although I did further up the page, briefly). But that does not mean I wasn't reading and following, as do others.
So, instead of jumping in and responding to every post, I read and consider if it's something to comment on or respond to.
So, someone comments, another responds, I comment and go away to work, etc. for hours or a day.
Come back and read, and respond.
That means I am reading the comments in aggregate and thinking about the trend of responses.
I'm sure you're aware of this with readers. What I don't know is if the mods have time to read entire threads. I can't imagine they want to spend a lot of time doing so. And if they can't/don't, that may explain the issue a bit more.
Post a Comment