Monday, November 10, 2008

New Episode on 11/10/08 - Leis & Luaus

After several days of travel, the Gosselins arrive in Hawaii and learn about Hawaiian culture through private lei making and hula lessons, Hawaiian cooking classes, snorkeling in the Pacific Ocean and participating in a traditional Grand Luau.

Also, click here to read an article in Hawaii Magazine.Com about their trip.

118 comments:

calebsmom said...

The article describes the tups as "a pack of four-year-old-sextuplets". Sounds more like they are wolves than children. Anyway, I am looking forward to the new episode.

Anya said...

Pack? That's a little strange, but it's kinda cute too. We know they all love animals so it fits!

Another Monday down and I am looking forward to the episode too!

erin said...

I have to say, those kids are incredibly adorable and polite! Aaden's "It's nice to meet you" at the bakery was so cute I wanted to eat him up. Little drama, nice episode.

Barbara said...

I like this episode very much. I think Kate is seriously trying to change. The kids were adorable, the place was beautiful, everyone seemed happy most of the time. Alexis is just so out there, she is so cute. I especially liked the idea that Jon's family will be there next week. Maybe they are mending bridges. I hope for all the kids, and Jon and Kate too, that they are.

nomoredrama said...

I agree, the kids ARE adorable. I've come to the conclusion that I don't care what "others" have to say about it.

MoreCowbell said...

"I'm Aaden. Nice to meet you." My TV nearly combusted from cuteness overload at that scene.

michelle said...

I'm jealous ( :

The kids are so adorable and it is great to see them all having so much fun.

It was great to see Mady playing with two girls outside of the "family dynamics" at the ocean.

It was great to see Kate in the water playing with the kids and not just on the sidelines watching.

Such a beautiful place. Can only hope that one day I can go visit such a place.

michelle said...

Alexis is so animated!! They are all so cute!

indianprincess said...

This whole episode was packed with cute memories. Loved Leah learning to swim. Great times and I'm so happy for them! Alexis is adorable..no fear!!!

Guinevere said...

I loved this episode. I have never been into travelogue shows, but I could almost kind of see the appeal, watching this. The resort and the activities the Gosselins did all seemed awesome. The kids were adorable - Alexis, especially, was "on" and there is nothing cuter in the world than Alexis when she is being her sassy little out-there self. I loved her dialogue about the sharks.

I felt Kate's sadness about Mady acting out. I applaud the Gosselins for being firm about not letting Mady disrupt it for everyone else. I still really think she is just one of those personalities that have to learn the hard way, and I firmly believe she is going to do great things some day.

Good for Kate for getting in the water! I can see how fearful she is, so I think it says a lot that she conquered that fear and got an amazing experience out of it.

amyf said...

I was very happy to see Mady smiling for a change (the hula lesson), even if it may not last for long.

Lizabeth said...

I loved this episode! The boys and their treasure hunt (as much as I am sure some will pounce on Joel and his 'mic' I thought that was so adorable!), the girls hula dancing, Leah and Lex correcting the Hawaiian dancers ("Thats not nice!" when they stuck their tongue out), etc. Jon and Kate seemed happier, more calm, and honestly thrilled to be enjoying so much. Good for them-- the kids were well behaved and when Mady had issues Kate addressed them calmly and with love. I'm not big on the travel shows either but I am kinda excited to see them renew their vows next week. The kids' outfits I saw on the teaser were adorable!

SamanthaNC said...

This was a fun one. I was glad that Kate got in the water bc she wound up enjoying it so much, I'm afraid of everything just like she is lol, so I get her initial aversion. As a mom I understand how sad Kate was that Mady's poor attitude kept her from participating in making cookies, I would be sad too. I've had to make similar calls before and it's terrible! Aaden's "nice to meet you" was precious and the girls were cute doing the hula. I love the new promo where they're on the hill, I think all the new promos for tlc are good- they have a much more of a polished look! I now desperatley want to go to Hawaii, anyone wanna join me?

Nina Bell said...

SamanthaNC,

I haven't seen this episode yet so I can't contribute to that conversation but I definetely will join you. Book the flight.

dotsicle said...

Guin said:
"I felt Kate's sadness about Mady acting out. I applaud the Gosselins for being firm about not letting Mady disrupt it for everyone else. I still really think she is just one of those personalities that have to learn the hard way....."
I agree. I'm not a Kate fan, but it must be hard for a mother of 8 kids to have a disruptive child who makes things so difficult. I agree that Mady is one of those who has to learn the hard way.

Lizabeth said...

I'm in for a trip to Hawaii too! Think we can get a group discount?

T-bag said...

I don't understand on that "other blog" why they say the kids aren't cute anymore- they are adorable!
I really enjoyed this episode, I loved that Kate told Leah she was proud of her, and that she hugged Mady when she finished dancing.

And how precious is that little Aaden meeting the cook?

kimber said...

I think the kids are cuter than ever. I love the way they talk now and I love the looks of wonder on their faces as they experience new things. I don't understand anyone saying they're not cute anymore...but considering the people who are saying such things, you have to take into consideration the fact that they've got to say something to trash the show, and trashing the beautiful innocent children because they're growing up seems to be right on track for those people.

I thought the show was great. I loved all of it from beginning to end. I was expecting it to not live up to expectations since they were really pushing the shows all week, but it was all great. I loved the twins with their dad, Cara in the ocean and in the pool looked so happy. I loved Mady meeting new friends on the beach, I loved them meeting the chef and shaking hands, preparing the cookies, Mady sitting it out (for a good reason) I could go on and on.

Alexis is always a stand out for me, every moment with her was adorable. Leah being so proud of herself for swimming, everyone on the boat seemed so sweet, (I loved Jon saying, "we'll see" after the guy said he loved the group at the beginning - so funny) the guy explaining the word "dude" to Alexis, calm Alexis in the water. It was a great episode.

Loved it!

JP said...

The promos for the wedding special are so beautiful it's really neat to see how fun the episode turned out. (Alexis smiling in the promo makes me want to cry its so sweet.)

It's really nice to see how even though the little kids are no longer babies, they are just as fun and cute. I think we'll get to see more of their cute interactions with each other and it'll be just as fun as seeing them as little toddlers.

Alexis is so happy and luminous she just steals my heart. Leah was so cute with her little old lady voice saying "not everybody else!" And seeing Mady really happy at the hula lesson was sweet. It's sad she has to sit out sometimes, but it sounds like Jon and Kate are doing what's right for her.

marci said...

REALLY great episode!

Everbody has already mentioned the things I enjoyed as well, so I won't be redundant.

I was glad to see in the preview for next week that it looks like we'll be seeing some of Jon's family. Also, in the promo for the vow renewal show, the one they played during commercials, it looks like the seats at the ceremony are full of people. (Probably not a shock to most here, but I'm sure others will be "floored.") ;)

I'm looking forward to next week's epi. TLC may be doing a whole lot of promotion, but, if it's anything like this week, it should be very enjoyable to watch.

Maybe it's the afterglow of such a nice show, but I really adore this family, warts and all.

GLO said...

This has to be one of my all-time favorite episodes! So many moments just melted my heart--Leah learning to swim by herslef, the kids all meeting Norma the cook ("What's your name?") one after another, little Alexis so absorbed in watching the turtles, Kate really relaxed and interacting with her kids, Mady bravely experiencing the ocean for the first time--so many wonderful moments.

I'm with all of you that want to visit Hawaii--that resort looked unbelievably awesome. The pools and slides were the coolest.

Barbara said...

T-Bag - I agree with you about that "other" blog. You don't dare say anything nice about them or you get slammed. They are SO hate filled. There is a comment on there today titled "Lifestyles of the Bitch and Shameless". They attack them for what they call their "urban attack vehicle
", but what else do you expect them to drive except something large -- they do have 10 people. Should they take two cars instead? Stupid. There is also a new post about the premise of the show about how it is nothing like it started out to be. I agree with JP above who said "It's nice to see how even though the little kids ae no longer babies, they are just as fun and cute." The show is very different now than in the beginning and I admit I really enjoyed those early shows with them just at home. But I'm sure TLC has made most of the decisions about what they do and where they go. It had probably been in the works for a long time. I enjoy the show now. I need to stop going over to that "other" blog. I like it better over here.

aap said...

I have a different take on Kate's way of handling Mady. I don't think the timeouts for her are working. I think the end result is that Mady will feel more isolated from their family, instead of being a part of their family, and in turn cause her to act out even more. I don't think Mady will ever think she is loved by "learning the hard way."

At some point you have to pull the plug on a disapline method that is no longer effective (Mady's been acting this way for at least a year.) I think Kate needs to find a new, acceptable way for Mady to voice her feelings so Mady feels like she's being heard and that she is a contributing and important part of their family. I also think this means that she is going to have to handle Mady differently from the other kids. Personally, I think this means Kate or Jon is going to need to spend more 1-on-1 time alone with Mady because to me it seems as if Mady needs the attention, and Jon and Kate could use the time with Mommy and Daddy as a bargaining chip to reward good behavior as opposed to a timeout for bad behavior. After all, wouldn't the goal be that they ALL can have a good time together?

Kate is fortunate enough to have resorces at her disposable - Jenny the nanny, and people who would be willing to help if they couldn't afford it (if they can get free teeth whiting and hair plugs, I don't see how they couldn't get free services for Mady). I hope in future episodes they looking into this so when the family goes on vacation next, it could be an enjoyable time for all family members.

katie said...

I have not seen this episode yet, but I would like to comment on Mady. I have a "Mady". She was strong willed from birth and always wanted things to go her way, against the grain. She is now in college going for computer engineering because, her words, "there are not many women in engineering."
Girls like Mady tend to take on the world and achieve great things. She just needs time and I have no doubt that Kate and Jon will make sure she has the skills to accomplish anything she takes on.

FIONA said...

I really enjoyed seeing the resort, but the more I watch the kids, the more I am disturbed by all the filming.

I feel terrible for Mady. You wonder what is going thru her mind to make her act out so badly that she misses out on the cooking fun. Is it because she doesn't want to be filmed, didn't want to wear the little chef coat??? I don't think she is a little hellion that is just disagreeable. I think it is more than that.

Watching her during her Hula lesson was so neat. I was thrilled for her, and she embraced Kate with such happiness. ( I didn't see Cara there tho )

Also, glad Mady got in the ocean on their sailing trip. I can't imagine Kate not wanting to get in. I am sure that her crazy fears rub off on Mady and perhaps that is Mady's way of trying to get what she needs from her Mother...

The show has really changed for me. I like Jon and Kate less and less. It is a non-relateable show on every level now.

Nina Bell said...

Katie,

I couldn't agree with you more.I believe some of the behavior we see is age related and some of it is just her personality. It appears that Kate is trying hard to do the right thing with Mady and figure out where discipline is needed. As a woman and a mother, you have to remember that some of those traits will be to her advantage and make her unique 15 years from now.

mykidsare20,18,15,6,2 said...

Even though I stopped watching the show over a month ago, I like reading the posts on here about the show. I admit the other blog is way harsh, but yet I can see why in a way. I stopped watching because I no longer feel connected to the family, I lost my appeal to the show when it went hollywood so to speak(jmo). We just watch some of the oldies(J&K) on dvd. I am glad things are going well for J&K and I am glad the kids are getting rare oppotunities. Hawaii seems like a great place for a family to visit and reconnect. Maybe J&K need this time to reconnect for themselves, who knows. In 4 years when my dh fully retires from the fire service, I am going to surprise him with a trip to Hawaii!

MommyZinger said...

Major, major cute kid factor in this episode. Loved it. The Grand Wailea did a smart thing hosting the Gosselins. My husband said, "How many times is Kate going to say the word 'accomodating'?"

How can people have anything to complain about when they see the looks of joy, happiness and pride in their accomplishments on each of those kids' faces. I was so happy for them.

ChinaMomof4 said...

Anya said: Pack? That's a little strange, but it's kinda cute too. We know they all love animals so it fits!

I remember they used to call the Dilley sextuplets the Dilley Sixpack, which I thought was really cute!

I enjoyed this episode. It's nice to see Kate really interacting with her kids!

BEE said...

Loved the show! Great memories for the family, beautiful location etc.

As for the discipline methods that Jon and Kate are using with Mady, I agree with how they are handling things. In fact, I think that they are making headway with her! In the last two episodes it seems that they have taken a different approach with her and that she is having greater consequences for her actions.

Last weeks episode when they were in San Diego and Mady missed out on feeding the fish and spent some one on one time with Jenny, she was in a great mode when the rest of the gang returned.

I commend the Gosselins for being consistent with Mady.

I too think that Mady, and all of the kids could benefit from more alone time with Jon and Kate. However, I don't know how realistic that is. As a busy parent of two small kids I know how hard it is to sneak in some alone time with either of my kids. Sometimes it is just impossible on a weekly, let alone daily basis! I truly give it up to Jon and Kate, I really think that they are doing the best they can!

Ummm...and how can anyone say those kids aren't adorable!!!!????

Heather said...

"I couldn't agree with you more.I believe some of the behavior we see is age related and some of it is just her personality. It appears that Kate is trying hard to do the right thing with Mady and figure out where discipline is needed. As a woman and a mother, you have to remember that some of those traits will be to her advantage and make her unique 15 years from now."

Yup. My daughter is a 'Mady'. On a trip to Disney World, I had to leave her at the hotel in "time out" with a family member one day while the rest of us went to the park. She didn't act out nearly as badly for the rest of the trip. Now she's 16 and very passionate about the things she believes in, so much so that she raised $2,500 last summer to go on a mission trip to Africa. It was a great experience for her and she plans on doing it again this summer. Sometimes having a strong will is a good thing, as long as you learn to direct that energy in a positive direction.

NotAPerfectMom said...

I don't really understand the complaints that J&K's lifestyle change has made it difficult for the "average" viewer to relate to them. Were they ever relatable? How many of us have 8 kids in 6 years? I could never relate to that and watch to see how one family handles it. I don't care how much help you have, it still has to be unbelievably daunting to parent that many children, that close together. The much-admired Duggars have the oldest daughters to act as nannys, with the mother caring only for the newest baby.

In any case, no matter how many opportunities come the Gosselins way, watching them participate in activities that I can't afford does not make me feel any more that I can't relate than I did when they had less money and fewer opportunities.

There are a lot of people on television who can afford more than I do, on reality shows and otherwise. I watch The Hills- there's a lifestyle I can't relate to! I used to watch Dallas. Yeah, that's a typical lifestyle. When I watch The Hills I don't think to myself, "That shrew Lauren Conrad! Why isn't she more grateful for her trip to Paris and all those free clothes and phones!!"

And before anyone says: But the kids! The kids are being exploited!! Most of the complaints this week, on the other board, are about how no one posting can afford a trip to Hawaii. And they are eagerly awaiting the new Hayes show to knock Kate off her supposed throne. I'm sure the Hayes children won't be exploited, though, right?

Linda said...

My older child is/was a Mady. Very emotional, very inflexible when things don't go exactly as expected, very dramatic and very stubborn about seeing other points of view.

Thankfully, consistency is working and maturity is starting to kick in at 10 years old. I feel like I'm finally able to enjoy him.

Laura said...

Barbara said...
"I like this episode very much. I think Kate is seriously trying to change.[...]"


Agreed...although I think Kate isn't acting any different than she always has, the production is just showing us her softer side more instead of focusing on mostly the negitive like they used to. Thats just my opinion though. This episode was so cute!

mykidsare20,18,15,6,2 said...

notaperfectmom,
I understand what you are saying. But I do not watch much tv at all. So years ago when I happen to tune into J&K by accident, it was refreshing to see a regular kinda of family on tv(excluding the multiples factor). To most the appeal of the the show, was the simplicity of their lives, yet handling it with multiples. IT was more relatable. I am all for the Gosselins having a good life with trips and all, but it just doesn't do it for ME anymore. Maybe many others can relate no problem, we all have our own reasons why we watch J&K. For me the great tips and family time ideas, was why I watched. The show is pretty much jut one trip after the other or some magazine cover photo shoot. Which is fine, but not the kind of J&K show that I enjoy watching. I know things with the Gosselins are different and their lives have changed, but mine hasn't. I am still trying to find ways to cut corners at the grocery store, make ends meet, etc. With the current economic situation in my household and across America, watching J&K vacation shows are a little depressing and in the end not relatable.And yes I understand other peoples finances are not their fault. But do not get me wrong, I like them and I am glad they are doing well, but I just watch the old shows on dvd now, they just happen to appeal to me more. But this is JMHO, nothing more.

FIONA said...

I am not trying to be confrontational but I don't see how anyone can say they have a Mady.

No one has a Mady Gosselin and we really don't have any idea what causes her to act out, to seem so miserable, so sad at times.

I think Mady's behavior is unique and a reflection on her lifestyle, her upbringing.

I am not a fan of JK, their kids do not live a normal life, and I think it is stressful for them.

Your kids may have some personality traits similar to Mady, but I think it is a non-comparable situation.

Just my POV.

P.S. After reading the comments on the other side, I do have to agree with the consensus that JK seem arrogant and overindulgent in their appearance. I think gluttonious was a word I read over and over, and I tend to agree.

marci said...

While I can appreciate that some viewers might not enjoy seeing people on TV doing things that they can't afford or might never do, I think watching people enjoy themselves can also have the opposite effect.

I'm reminded of all the extravagant films that were made during the Great Depression. That was the era of those over-the-top musical spectacles with hundreds of dancing girls and everything was luxury and lush. Hollywood made these films as a distraction for the public.

Instead of wallowing in how bad things were at the time...the Dust Bowl, people living in their cars, bread lines...people went to the theaters to get away from the day-in/day-out drugery that was most people's lives at the time.

Now, I've never read any historical accounts of people speaking out against the lavish excesses they saw in these films when so much of the country was suffering financially, but I imagine there probably were people who felt that way at the time.

I hardly think we'd all rather watch TV about
people who have it WORSE than we do every day. That stuff makes us appreciate that we might not have it so bad, but it's hardly fun or entertaining to watch too much of that.

My point is, I can appreciate that some people might not enjoy seeing the Gosselins being given so much when so much is being taken away from so many others. But, for me, even though I won't spend the money now, I have done these things in the past and I know I will again in the future. I can watch these trips the G's take and smile and say, "Good for them. I hope some day to do that again/for the first time."

This show is one of my many "getaways."

Kikibee said...

Yeah, I agree with notaperfectmom and marci. I watch tv more for escapism. I don't want to see myself or my neighbors , I can see that in real life.

I really liked this episode and last week's. The kids are so cute and the adults they interact with seem to enjoy them.

I think if Kate seems to be mellowing (and it's not just editing) it might be because the kids are getting older. They are able to be more responsible for themselves and don't have to be watched as closely. I know they have a a camera crew following them, but if you're the mom you're still keeping track of the kids.

Lizabeth said...

I think notaperfectmom brought up an important point I hadn't thought of before-- when people talk about how they can't relate to J&K anymore, I really do wonder as well if they ever honestly could. Maybe that is why I give more leeway to them than so many of the GWoPpers/haters. I feel that it is not my place to go and judge another family when I don't have two sets of multiples and when I don't have the same burdens they do.

This is why it really does bother and offend me when people tackle them for choosing to take the blessings that come along. As far as I have seen all of the companies and resorts Jon and Kate have been able to work with or visit have made every accommodation and been gracious hosts. Just like we have been talking about in this thread, the Grand Wailea looks gorgeous and like a wonderful resort-- they just got millions of new contacts from this one free trip they gave the Gosselin's, so I am pretty sure the whole 'free trip/free merchandise' idea works out better for the company than the Gosselin's!

FIONA said...

I don't call fee trips, free clothing etc...blessings. I call those perks/swag.

SamanthaNC said...

Well no Fiona, no one has a child exactly like Mady Gosselin. But many of us see the behaviors of our own children in the behavior that Mady sometimes exhibits. I can totally relate.

floridamom said...

I enjoyed the show. The location was gorgeous. I went to Hawaii years ago, and it makes me want to go back. The kids were adorable, and Jon and Kate seemed more appreciative to their hosts. I think the resort got great advertising.
I can understand how it might appear to be turning into the Make A Wish foundation rather than a reality show. But-- I don't know if I would turn down those trips either :)

aap said...

Heather -

Yup. My daughter is a 'Mady'. On a trip to Disney World, I had to leave her at the hotel in "time out" with a family member one day while the rest of us went to the park. She didn't act out nearly as badly for the rest of the trip.

Wouldn't the difference be that your daughter learned her lesson after the first time out? The Gosselins' trip is 2 weeks long, and already Mady has had 3 timeouts. The punishment isn't working.

If Jon and Kate would experiment and find a new way to displine Mady that did work, the trip could have been much more enjoyable for everyone.

lulubae said...

This episode was too adorable! I'm not surprised other find faults with it though. At this point they'd find fault in themselves winning a million dollars fair and square so whatever. I don't even bother with that anymore!

I think even though now the show has evolved into them doing more task-oriented episodes and they're obviously better off, Jon and Kate somehow seemed more relax and able to enjoy their children and each other so much more than they did before. And in essence, isn't that as it should be? How many parents would give their left arm to be able to devote their time to hanging out and enjoying their children? I think the children will benefit for it.

Nina Bell said...

AAP

What approach would you use. What has worked for you?

kimber said...

Some people never learn "their lesson." They complain and cause problems because that's who they are. They cause conflict, they want it their way but nobody knows what their way is from moment to moment. Mady is unpredictable and Mady's not going to be getting a personality transplant anytime soon, but her parents should continue to leave her behind if her "bad attitude" is going to spoil the fun for everyone else. Why should the other kids suffer because of Mady?

Icantpickagoodname said...

Yes, Im sure that will be totally different. If the mother doesnt have a bitchy side, the kids can be exploited. GWOP has jumped the shark, it used to be entertaining to watch them meltdown now its so freaking boring! How many times can they complain over and over "WAHHHH I cant even go to Myrtle Beach and these people get to go to Hawaii" "Wahhhh I never get to eat lobster" or the ever ridiculous claim that staying at a resort negates the trip. Nah they arent jealous at all.


---
notaperfectmom said
I'm sure the Hayes children won't be exploited, though, right?

merryway said...

I liked the episode. Hawaii is magical and I'm glad the Kate relaxed so much on the boat. Those moments are special when you're at peace like that.
Loved the treasure hunt. So many cute kids moments. Joel with the long grass microphone was a hoot.

AAP,
For some children, there's no quick fix. Heavier issues can take weeks/months/years.



I really enjoyed reading all the posts.

Saint said...

Regarding the episode: It was absolutely my favorite. They are a beautiful couple with beautiful children. What a fabulous state Hawaii is! It's on my life-list now. I MUST see those turtles!

Regarding Mady:
I don't really have a child as challenging as Mady. I WAS a child as challenging as Mady. I tested my poor parents just like she does...I was stressed and emotional and I cried at the drop of a hat until I was fourteen. THEN I developed PMS! It went downhill from there.

Now I am practically a Saint. :)

My transformation came from an incredible amount of patience from my parents, especially my father. Love, lectures, hugs, punishment, prayer: they threw it all at me. They never gave up on me. Now I try to stay calm, patient, and prudent.

I think I object to this show mostly because I understand Mady's meltdowns, and I feel like they should not be viewed. She has to grow up in the camera's eye. It was hard for me to be teased by brothers and sisters and aunts and uncles, though it was only family members. I hope Mady isn't teased. She certainly had a lot said about her by viewers, and that's part of my objection. I understand though that J&K have weighed the pros/cons and have decided differently.

I think Jon and Kate are trying to give her more privacy. They are handling it as well as I would hope to. Someone mentioned that in 2 weeks we've seen three time-outs so the punishment isn't working. I completely disagree. You do not switch punishments after three tries. Plus, I bet there were more than three time-outs. It may take many more, but she'll mature. I hope J&K stick to their guns and stay persistent with her. She'll come around.

Kittyc said...

No one has a Mady Gosselin and we really don't have any idea what causes her to act out, to seem so miserable, so sad at times.

Oh, I bet there are some pretty good "Drama Queens" out there. I can think of one in particular that I taught in Pre-School.

I don't think she's a hellion, I think she's just very particular and children who are very particular have a tough time with large sibling groups...

I'm just curios Fiona, do you have any Early Childhood Education? You seem to have some fairly definate ideas about what age appropirate behavior is and isn't supposed to look like?

FIONA said...

Well no Fiona, no one has a child exactly like Mady Gosselin. But many of us see the behaviors of our own children in the behavior that Mady sometimes exhibits. I can totally relate.

November 11, 2008 2:13 PM

----

I just don't see how one could relate their own child's behavior/disposition to a child on a reality TV show that has been filmed for much of her last 4 years, has sextuplets for siblings.

Kittyc-I do not think it is necessary to have advanced schooling in ECED to see that an ordinary, outspoken "drama queen" has the same issues as Mady.

While many parent's may have a child that exhibits outburts etc...like we have seen from Mady, the variables are not the same at all.

That is what I am trying to convey. You are all so lucky that you don't have a child with Mady's baggage.

FIONA said...

Jon and Kate somehow seemed more relax and able to enjoy their children and each other so much more than they did before.
____


Boy, I sure hope they are more relaxed!

Nina Bell said...

Well I am not so sure Mady has baggage. Maybe the experiences she has had in the past will be a bonus to her. Maybe it isn't evident now, but it could be down the road.

I will keep an open mind on this. The jury is still out in my mind.

aap said...

Nina -

What approach would you use. What has worked for you?

I wasn't being snarky when I said if J&K could get cosmetic procedures done for free, I can't believe that Kate can't get Figure 8 or some therapist serivces donated to help them figure out how to best handle Mady. Talking to a professional would be my first approach.

I also feel that Mady has no clue on how to effectively express her emotions, and that is why she resorts to having a tantrum. With the help of a professional, he/she could help her find alternative solutions to problem situations.

In my original post, I also mentioned using something that Mady would want (I used time alone with Jon and Kate) as a bargaining chip to reward good behavior, as opposed to just focusing on the bad behavior. For my family, it uses cause and effect better than timeouts because it gets the kids to focus on the positives of a situation and is more proactive than reactive.

In addition, I would talk to Mady to find out what would really motivate her to act better. Knowing she will get 'A' if she can keep her emotions in check, might be enough to encourage her to be on her best behavior. (Watching her favorite TV show, playing video games, or doing her favorite activity are all alternatives to Jon and Kate spending alone time with her)

Merryway -

I agree there is no fast, easy fix for Mady which is why I think the parents should act sooner than later. Working on her behavior for a year is better than waiting and having to deal with it for a year and 6 months.

Saint -

Someone mentioned that in 2 weeks we've seen three time-outs so the punishment isn't working. I completely disagree. You do not switch punishments after three tries. Plus, I bet there were more than three time-outs. It may take many more, but she'll mature. I hope J&K stick to their guns and stay persistent with her. She'll come around.

I doubt this trip is the first time the Gosselins used timeouts as punishement for Mady. Didn't they do a whole show based on how Jon and Kate disciplined their kids and they mentioned timeouts were their number 1 method? Mady's personality has been pretty consistant since the show started 4 (?) years ago. I think that is long enough to try timeouts and come to the conclusion that they are not working. Maybe the combination of a different approach and Mady maturing will get her behavior better faster?

BEE said...

Mady is a sweet little girl that has an extraordinary life. Both she and her parents are living their reality as best as they can. Who are we to say what is best, what they are doing is wrong etc.

I don't understand why it is such a big topic of discussion that Mady has misbehaved on their trips and suffered the consequence? Sounds like she is acting like a lot of 8 year olds to me!

Nina Bell said...

I am agreeing with BEE on this one. All children are different.

Lizabeth said...

I see your point, aap, about Mady maybe needing a different form of discipline. At the same time, these episodes were filmed months ago so for all we know they have done this. It also seems like Cara and Mady do not want to be on camera as often, so this is something I think Jon and Kate are respecting. Mady is a sweet, lively girl who deserves far better than so many horrid comments some people make. I think they are doing what they can in their circumstances (the only other option being to quit the show, which it seems won't happen for awhile). It may very well be that some peace and quiet IS what Mady desires, just to get a little time away from the siblings and relax. Either way, like Kate says, "Never give up on Mady."

aap said...

Actually, Nina, I agree that all children are different too, which is why I think that the Gosselins shouldn't use 1 method of displine for all their children because they each have unique personalities. What works for 1 doesn't necessarily work for all.

CeeCee said...

I am a HUGE Mady fan and I wish that Figure 8 wouldn't film her meltdowns. They appear to be doing that less but the damage is done -- it's all out there for the world to see.

Children can be cruel and Mady could very well be teased in school for the behavior that's shown on television.

It's not fair to her at all.

mykidsare20,18,15,6,2 said...

lizbeth,

I used to be a HUGE fan of the show. There as a time I could relate to the show, because of the family type things they did around the house and occasionally out of the house. It just seemed more like REALITY. I do not jugde J&K. Like you said, I do not know what their burdens are like. But truth is, the show has changed. And like I said in my earlier post, I am happy for them and hope all goes well for them, but there is nothing uncommon about someone not feeling connected to something they used to feel connected to before.Maybe for some this is escapism from reality, but not for me. I was looking forward to Kate's tips or ideas for family memories for holidays. Their chaoctic simplicity was so appealing. Another reason I have not been much into J&K anymore, on another fan board I visit, I read they were not very nice at their speaking/meet&greet engagement in Orlando. I almost went to that meet and greet, and it would have cost me lots of $$ and driving far to see them, only to be dissappointed. But whatever the case, I was a big fan once and I never thought once that I would stop watching the show, but I did. I am happy for them, but just not into them or the show anymore. JMHO

scarfoot said...

I tried to submit this earlier, but something went wrong (I think - I hope I didn't get rejected!). This won't sound as eloquent as it did a while ago!

I just wanted to say that I think that there are some great points here about finding a discipline method that works. I feel like we are seeing Jon and Kate be slightly more assertive in regards to Mady's difficult behavior. In the past, I think they have tended to justify her behaviors by saying that it is her personality, or that she's having a difficult time adjusting to being the sister of sextuplets. Both of those reasons are valid and definitely worth respecting. In the past, J and K continued to allow Mady to participate in the activity they were doing, regardless of behavior. I see it as a positive sign that Jon and Kate are now saying "No, that behavior is not acceptable. You need to choose whether you would like to change your behavior, or not participate."

Mady is a sweet girl who is very loved by her parents. I cannot pretend to have a clue what the Gosselins should do when parenting. I think that Mady is a child who needs lots of attention, love, and discipline. Unfortunately it is harder for her to get as much attention as she would like with so many young siblings. I hope she can accept that and move forward.

katie said...

Bee and Ceecee, I agree with you both. Mady is a wonderful 8 year old that is trying to control her world, just like my "Mady" still does. Guess where she gets it from? Me, just like Mady is with Kate. Have you noticed that Mady has picked up many of Kate's fears? ( Heights in CA and the ocean on the last episode) This is not a good or bad thing, just the way we are. Kids have so many phases in life, she has a long way to go, Jon and Kate are doing great. The time outs are great for her to let her calm down and communicate what she needs to. She will be just fine.

Linda said...

aap -

The thing with my son who I find to be very similar to Mady is that a few time outs don't work. We do a variety of consequences and it takes months for him to get the point. Kids like this require warrior
strength.

It isn't that the consequences don't work. It is that my son (and others like him) require more consequences.

And as for him not really being like Mady ... 3 years ago he stormed in the house on his 7th birthday and slammed the door behind him. Why? Because some other student brought in their birthday treat the same day.

Sound familiar?

Pictures drawn by him and his younger brother for daddy who was away for a weekend. Who had to give ALLLLLLLLL of them to daddy? Not each child who drew them -- nope. He had to. And there was hell to pay to pry them out of his hands so my other child could give dad the picture he drew.

Sound familiar?

Kids like this require warrior strength. My friend has a son like this. Her first two were very compliant and obedient. When they misbehaved a few consequences would get the point across. Her third son came along and he was not at all like the others. He was defiant and impulsive. Consequences be damned.

She says that God gave her Michah to remind her that she wasn't a perfect mom.

Guinevere said...

Leah was so cute with her little old lady voice saying "not everybody else!"

Hah! There's something about Leah where she is occasionally crotchety and curmudgeonly like a little old lady. It's adorable; she's not like that all the time, but when she is, it's so cute to see. Two of my fave Leah moments are her screwing up her face and shouting, "everyone's Asian!" on the Korean dinner episode, and her dismissive "no he didn't!" to Joel's suggestion that maybe Jon went to work (when the can't find him playing hide-and-seek). She just throws it off as she marches past him in the hallway and it is such a hoot.

Seeing the sextuplets get older and really express themselves is really a joy. My sister and I were talking about one of our favorite Hannah moments - I think it's at the end of the "Sight and Sound" episode, where Joel gives Hannah her stuffed animal back after putting it in his mouth. Her inarticulate cry of outrage is AWESOME.

Guinevere said...

Just to weigh in on Mady: I didn't see Mady being excluded from certain activities as the equivalent of a "time out" or necessarily intended as a discipline measure. I saw it as a choice J&K made to preserve a nice outing for everyone else.

I don't assume that I know what all J&K are doing about Mady's behavioral issues. She may be seeing a therapist; the Gosselins may be trying other discipline techniques with her. I know Kate has said that they "continue to work with Mady on her issues", which suggests to me that they aren't taking a static approach to it.

As for Mady being teased by classmates, I'm of two minds. I can see what people are saying, but I also think that 1) Mady may well act up in school as well, meaning the other kids already know that she's capable of behaving badly and 2) if she doesn't act up in school, it suggests that she can control her behavior, and maybe a little peer pressure isn't the worst thing in the world? I don't know. I don't want to see her scarred for life, but one of the ways we all learn to modify our behavior is social pressure.

Just to clarify: I'm focussing on Mady's behavior, but I don't think she's the Bad Seed, or anything. Far from it - I agree with those that say the qualities that give her problems now may help her later in life.

It's so easy to make judgments about how others parent, but each child *is* different, and different things work with different kids. I think some parents who haven't experienced a difficult kid maybe give themselves a bit too much credit - they assume it's "nurture" that determines if a child is docile and calm or angry and rowdy. But parents who've had one perfect angel followed by a demon child from hell know it's not that simple - I've known people in that situation. Had one kid, thought, "this isn't so hard!" and wham, the next one is TOTALLY different.

amyf said...

Guinevere said...

Two of my fave Leah moments are her screwing up her face and shouting, "everyone's Asian!" on the Korean dinner episode, and her dismissive "no he didn't!" to Joel's suggestion that maybe Jon went to work (when the can't find him playing hide-and-seek). She just throws it off as she marches past him in the hallway and it is such a hoot.
___________________
Not quite on topic for this thread, but my absolute favorite quote from Leah - at least I'm pretty sure it was Leah - was in the helping-with-chores episode, when she said indignantly, "That raisin was on MY side!"

Jenn said...

my son and daughter both have similar traits that are "mady like". a lot of the time they only act out when they are together and one is doing something to the other. we work with them and try to show them a better way to get what they need. kids will be kids, whether they are on TV or not.

another point, who is to say that Mady is only this way because she's on TV? none of us are in the G's home or with them on vacation. we can't say that the way she is is because of anything other than she's an kid!

i think we should give the Mady is bad because she's on TV stuff a rest.

merryway said...

I don't think Maddy is bad because she's on tv. I think it's just who she is. I also think that it is a leap to assume that she needs therapy. We have heard J&K talk about her enough to know she has some difficulties. I really feel for her emotional episodes being shown to the world. I don't know if either of the twins can comprehend how many watch their show and know about their lives. It's hard to absorb how big the world is at the age. They might be beginning to grasp some of it. It's just one of those situations that I should be personal.

I think some parents who haven't experienced a difficult kid maybe give themselves a bit too much credit - they assume it's "nurture" that determines if a child is docile and calm or angry and rowdy. But parents who've had one perfect angel followed by a demon child from hell know it's not that simple - I've known people in that situation. Had one kid, thought, "this isn't so hard!" and wham, the next one is TOTALLY different.

I agree and it puts too much of an expectation of mothers. I have a little piece of Karma running around because I was one of those people who always said “it's the parents”when I was younger. That's my quippy explanation for her behavior. This attitude of “nurturing fixes all” is a real trap. It's irritating and insulting to hear it from others. As a parent, it's something we have to learn and remind ourselves of. Mom guilt can make you feel that all of your time isn't enough. This attitude also implies quick fixes and that children all fit into nice little slots. It takes time to know what works with a child and it could all change the next day. They have to be given the time to change and mature. Sometimes they make those wonderful big leaps overnight. We have no way of knowing what / if any other measures J&K are taking or if anything else is even necessary.

AAP, J&K have been using timeouts for a long time. However, a time-out in your room is much different than missing an awesome family event. I think that when they are saying “time-out”, they might be referring to Maddy needing a time-out from life. Some children are easily over-stimulated. I'm guessing that she needs calm time in or order to be able to help control herself. If I am right, she gets her calm time and also realizes that her behavior isn't acceptable. Again, just a guess, but it's a common factor in some children.


Marci, that is such a good point about the old movies and I have thought they have been showing us the “bright side of life” through the Gosselins. Kate seems to be the royalty of a group that I can't quite guess. There are certainly mom moments to which I can identify and I admire her success. But who are her greatest fans?

I have to say that as I sit here, I wonder how much money it would take for me to be in a situation where my child was so discussed and analyzed. Nothing comes to mind at the moment. It feels strange to know so much about a family's life through television. It's like seeing what you'd see if you were peeking in their windows but we're invited in. It doesn't feel right to sit here and talk about someone elses child like this. It's a catch-22, because they're famous for their “real life”and that's what the show is all about. So I feel kind of icky sometimes for discussing what they're famous for because it's all so personal.

Me said...

Funny, I posted several comments on the "other" blog and they won't allow them. Why? I have no clue. No harsh language or anything was used. LOL So, I'm gonna post them here (below the link) since it is related to some of the people who come here and since that "other" blog seems to read this blog.
______________________
Anyway, someone "over there" said:

" I'd love to see a "Charity FROM the Gosselins" show...taking the kids to a local nursing home, donating clothing and toys to underprivilidged kids, etc...it sure would make me feel better about Kate and Jon."

And my response to that was:

Would it really make you "feel better" about J&K? I doubt it. You know very well that if they did a show like that most of you would be claiming "damage control." None of you would give them credit like you claim. Let's get real.
_____________________
Anyway, they didn't approve of that comment but don't you agree? In one breath they say "I'd love to see a show with them giving back." But you know darn right well they'd STILL complain about that. They probably didn't post what I wrote above because they know I'm right and don't want to admit it.

Me said...

I also posted the following (below the line) "over there" and they won't let this go through either. I don't see anything wrong with it. Once again, keep in mind when reading it I was addressing the "hater" there. This is NOT meant to be directed at those here. lol
__________________________
Time and time again throughout these comments I see the same thing. People complaining that J&K are taking all these vacations during the economic crises when a lot of families couldn't. And that's J&K's fault?

I hate how, because the economy isn't good right now, some think that no one should be doing anything because THEY can't. I myself can't take such vacations as J&K right now either but I'd be a darn fool to think and demand that others more well off couldn't either.

J&K are NOT the only ones out there who are well off enough to afford theses trips. If you noticed, there were tons of other families there enjoying and partaking in the same activities as the G's. And you know they aren't there for free. Obviously many people can take these sorts of trips. Just because you can't doesn't mean others shouldn't. That's selfish thinking.

And, you all complain about how J&K take these trips, get freebies, etc. yet I bet you go to the movies and put more money into the hands of the actors and actresses who are making millions too. I bet you buy the latest Hannah Montana junk for your kids (or whatever else is popular now). What about condemning them for living large during these hard economic times? Why put money in their pockets like you cry people are doing with J&K. It doesn't make sense.

Let's face it, J&K ARE celebs now in a way. And they are gonna be treated like other celebs are. And that includes magazine and book deals, free hotels, free limos, free vacations, free clothes, etc. ALL celebs get this treatment. And, if you aren't willing to condemn your favorite musician or actor then don't be so fast to condemn the G's either.

And I know the next thing you will say to that is "But those people don't exploit their kids in order to make their money." Well, obviously that is your opinion of what it happening. I personally don't see it that way. And neither do thousands of others.

In one breath you complain about how they are making tons of money off of their book, their speeches, the show, you complain about all the articles they are in, all the TV talk shows they are on and in the next breath you say "but no one likes you." lmao! Seems to me that obviously millions of people do. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing all of those things. So face it, you people who do not like them are but a small percentage. They aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

And finally, you know none of you really want the show to end. Because, if it did, what would you have to complain/talk about? This blog would be no more.

Stefanie said...

This has to be one of my favorite episodes! The kids were adorable and looked like they were having a fantastic time. I think this is the closest weve seen them as a family. Kate was engaged and made sure all the kids had a great trip.

I think the more negative I read about J&K the more I love them and in some weird way I feel protective of them. I find it so hard to constantly bash a family that we dont know because they do things differently than we would. That is the beauty of family- no two are the same. When I think of all the kids who are abused, or live in orphanages, those kids need advocates. The Gosselin kids may be filmed a few days a week, but they are healthy, happy and growing up nicely.

Reading some of the negative comments on the web it makes me question MY parenting. I have four very different children who require different things from me. My 7 year old needs the most "love" from my husband and I-she loves to cuddle and hug. My 6 year old is fiercely independent and most of the time shys away from that. Does that make me a bad mother? Because Im not hugging each of my children all day long? Probably not. Maybe Kate understands that each of her chlidren are different and need different things and is respecting that instead of picking favorites.

Many comments are about "damage control" and how they are making sure to show Kate being "nicer" and doting on her "less favorites". Maybe the show is getting the same footage but editing it differently. They shoot a lot of footage and cut it up into thirty or sixty minute shows, I bet you could make anyone look awful. Yes, I know the footage is there, but editing is a powerful tool and nothing is as it seems.

kittyc said...

Kittyc-I do not think it is necessary to have advanced schooling in ECED to see that an ordinary, outspoken "drama queen" has the same issues as Mady.

No, you don't, but you may not be gathering quite all the information there is to gather, such as parental talks and things that happen behind the scenes. You"ve drawn conclusions from incomplete data. And you suggest that the children are responding negitavely to the environment created around them, so, I was just wondering if you had some kind of basis for your determination of if it was just your personal oppinion stated in a somewhat "professional" manner.

FIONA said...

I know Kate has said that they "continue to work with Mady on her issues", which suggests to me that they aren't taking a static approach to it.
-----

But really Guin, why in the world would Kate even say such a thing on national TV? To state that Mady has "issues". Of course Mady has heard the negative comments made by her parents on TV. She has revisited her meltdowns, and most like the emotions she was feeling that caused the meltdown. Her's is a unique situation, worsened by being on camera most of her life.

And I don't think it is just Mady who has baggage from the show, I think they all will, perhaps to varying degress. I see no way they will escape unscathed.

I truly feel sorry for Mady, and Cara as well.

The tups might fair better due to their age, and depending on when the show stops filming, if it ever does.

Tricia said...

EXACTLY!!!
I have posted that so many times on that blog, and it never goes through. If they were to do anything charitable at this point, it would be slammed. Nothing they ever do will make those people happy. Even cancelling the show. You really think that 3Farmers is going to be happy when (because it will eventually happen, no show lasts forever) they cancel? No, she'll be without a hobby.

What also kills me about the whole thing is that they actually think that because there was a 2% drop in the ratings that they are making a difference. The 200 people who post on there and don't like the show are not going to trump the million viewers who do like it. It's not science people.

nc resident said...

The comments about Mady are pure speculation. No one can say her meltdowns, or present behavior show a future ability to become self reliant and self sufficient, or for that matter that they indicate future social shortcomings.
My speculation since other opinions have been shown is pure and simple, it's growing pains. She however, I feel, is having a harder time dealing with this. She acts out because this negative behavior receives a response, any response. The show also compounds the daily stress by allowing the kids (older ones since they know) to be handed so many things. Bikes, toys, clothes, trips, front of the line passes just some things Ive seen. They have no sense of reality. There is also little interaction with other kids they can relate to socially, play dates, friends IE, to develope 8 yr old skills. Personally I feel the lack of relatives in their lives is also a factor. Jen and Scott however old they are cannot be a friend to an 8 yr old.
But there has been the pencil episode that to me is scary at least. When kids ask if they stab someone with a pencil is it an accident I would worry. If nothing else it shows me that some type of social worker or child advocate needs to be involved while these kids are filming. Just my 2 cents, and I do not have a degree in child development.

Guinevere said...

But really Guin, why in the world would Kate even say such a thing on national TV? To state that Mady has "issues". Of course Mady has heard the negative comments made by her parents on TV.

The show, like it or not, depicts the good and the bad in the Gosselin family. That appears to be the producers' and J&K's intention, so it's not realistic to expect a sanitized version of their life. And if the producers are going to show Mady's behavior, I think it makes sense for Kate to comment on it.

We aren't talking about a kid who pulls the wings off of flies, here. Mady does not appear to have serious psychological issues, in my opinion. She appears to have a strong personality and a disinclination or inability to control her emotions. I think the fact that so many posters here recognize Mady's behavior as similar to their own child's is testament to the fact that while her behavior isn't ideal, it's within the range of normal kid behavior.

Her's is a unique situation, worsened by being on camera most of her life.

We just have no way of knowing this. I think the camera adds stress at times but I also think Mady likes attention, which the camera provides. Also, J&K have way more time for her than they would if they were both working 40+ hour weeks to support 8 kids. I think she needs that extra time with her parents.

Again, just my opinion, and not based on any particular professional expertise: I think one of the main stressors in Mady's life is the fact that her parents had sextuplets. I think she resents the attention they get. The situation is what it is now, though, and I think everyone in the Gosselin family deals with it as best they can.

(And to contradict myself, it may be that only by being part of a large family is Mady going to learn to deal with not being the center of attention. If she were, say, an only child, she might be a happier child, but she might grow up into a woman with really unrealistic expectations about the world and her place in it. I don't know. There are so many variables, it's impossible for ANY of us to know.)

And I don't think it is just Mady who has baggage from the show, I think they all will, perhaps to varying degress. I see no way they will escape unscathed.

Well, again, we have no way of knowing, but this is an old argument. The Gosselins presumably weighed the advantages and disadvantages of their choice and decided it was worth it. People have the right to *think* that they made the wrong choice, but 1) it's not their life and 2) no one really knows, anyway.

mkb77 said...

Great episode!!

Anya said...

amyf said..."Not quite on topic for this thread, but my absolute favorite quote from Leah - at least I'm pretty sure it was Leah - was in the helping-with-chores episode, when she said indignantly, "That raisin was on MY side!"

You are right, it was Leah and it was the episode where the sextuplets took turns sweeping under the table. Hannah went for a raisin on Leah's side and Leah was not pleased!

One of my favorite Leah moments too!

Jenn said...

Guin ~ totally agree with your response to Mady's behaviour! You said it way better than I could have!

MonicaW42 said...

This was one of my favorite shows with them. They all looked like they really enjoyed themselves and had alot of fun. Alexis always kills me. Can't wait till next Monday's show. Also, sorry, but those kids get cuter and cuter.

calebsmom said...

I really enjoyed this episode. My husband, my son and I have been to Hawaii. It is truly a beautiful place. We were there for two weeks, but next time we would like to stay longer. I think everyone should try to see Hawaii at least once in their life.

I have been thinking about Mady's behavior and her meltdown's. I wonder if maybe she is angry deep down inside because she doesn't get to see her best friend Taliah anymore. As you know, that is Beth's daughter. Those girls had a very close bond, and that bond has been broken. I am hoping that Kate and Jon will get her help if she keeps acting out.

Daisy said...

Since Mady's behavior has been this way since their trip to Sequoia at least, I don't think it has anything to do with Talia. Besides, we don't know Talia isn't in their lives. That's just a rumor. It seems to me that Mady's "behavior" is part of her personality, so I think this has been going on all her life.

There's a webisode on TLC about butterflies that mentions Carla. Carla's hasn't been on the show but is still in their lives. It's quite possible Beth is too.

calebsmom said...

Who knows. I would think that if Beth WAS still in their lives, we would know it and we would see her. After all, she is the co-author of their book, Multiple Blessings. One would think that if Beth and Kate were still friends, they would have done a book tour together. That's the best way to increase interest and sales in the new book. Having ALL the people that wrote the book on a tour together looks better. That way people don't question why Kate doesn't talk about the co-author Beth Carson. Beth used to help out with the kids, and we don't see that happening anymore. Beth is not in the show anymore for whatever reason. I'm sure Mady has other issues, but you just have to know that she misses her best friend Taliah. What girl her age wouldn't? Mady has probably known Taliah her whole life and looks up to her. JMO :)

kimber said...

calebsmom said...
Who knows. I would think that if Beth WAS still in their lives, we would know it and we would see her. After all, she is the co-author of their book, Multiple Blessings. One would think that if Beth and Kate were still friends, they would have done a book tour together. That's the best way to increase interest and sales in the new book. Having ALL the people that wrote the book on a tour together looks better. That way people don't question why Kate doesn't talk about the co-author Beth Carson. Beth used to help out with the kids, and we don't see that happening anymore. Beth is not in the show anymore for whatever reason. I'm sure Mady has other issues, but you just have to know that she misses her best friend Taliah. What girl her age wouldn't? Mady has probably known Taliah her whole life and looks up to her. JMO :)
---

Why? Who knows what she contributed to the book? She didn't provide the stories, she could have simply helped organize it, much the way a ghost writer would. Why would she have to do a book tour with Kate? There wasn't really a book tour anyway. They mention the book but they are really promoting the show on those recent appearances.

Why would we have to see Beth? We don't see Carla, and she's still in their life, as noted on a webisode. In July someone I know went to a Jon and Kate speaking event and Kate actually said that Beth takes a couple of the kids every once in a while. Just because we've heard Jodi's sour grapes doesn't mean that Beth has any - it doesn't mean that there was a falling out between Beth and Kate. Thinking there was a falling out just because she's not shown on the show anymore and because of Jodi's bitterness is a big leap to take, imo.

Oscars mom said...

I loved the Hawaii ep, and the preview for the wedding put tears in my eyes. However, I think the wedding should be the series finale. It would be a great fairy tale ending for this family who we can see have obviously come a long way since we first met them years ago. The kids are getting older, the little ones are still cute but the older girls are getting older and who wants their awkward years played out on reality TV? Cara doesn't seem to like being filmed at all, and Mady's temper tantrums and constant need for attention can only be embarrasing for her. Furthermore, watching a family get loads of amazing freebies is getting annoying. Especially since J+K are making enough money now that they could probably afford all this. If they choose to continue the show, I hope its just one more season with less of the older girls included. And less of them just doing normal everyday life stuff and going on trips. Maybe they could focus on how its like to deal with their fame?

monica said...

The wedding will not be the series finale, and Cara seems plenty happy to be filmed when she is being filmed doing something she likes, like playing in the pool or the ocean.

These "freebies" people seem so angered and annoyed by are free advertising for the resorts, in other words, not really free at all. The resorts get loads of free publicity which means a lot of business they might not have otherwise gotten. Sounds like a fair trade to me, but not a free one by any means.

Are people annoyed by the places the Gosselins get to go because their show is popular, or jealous? I think that "annoyance" is really jealousy. IMO

calebsmom said...

kimber,

I think it's taking a big leap to say that Beth is still in their lives. You just have to know that if Beth was still in their lives that she would be seen more. Beth is the one that is going to Albright College for a BA degree in writing. So I'm sure that she had a major rule in putting Mutiple Blessing's together. Kate used to talk about Beth being her best friend. Something is not right with this picture. I am willing to bet that they had a falling-out, so to speak. Why would Kate want to promote the show, which is old and has been on for quite a long time? Where as the book was new and she would want the public to know about it. I'm positive that Beth and Kate were planning on doing a book tour together, but something happened between them. Will we ever know? Maybe someday. :)

A Mom-ynous said...

ceecee said:
"Children can be cruel and Mady could very well be teased in school for the behavior that's shown on television.

It's not fair to her at all."

You are correct. It isn't fair to Mady that other children's parents cannot properly teach them that teasing is and will always be unacceptable at any age.

Poor Mady doesn't stand a chance in school when folks do not properly train their children to treat others as they would be treated.

Kelley said...

I finally saw this episode last night, and I loved it!

I was shocked that Kate would fly all the way to Hawaii and look at the beautiful Pacific and not want to be in it all day long. Every time I go to Hawaii, I spend every possible minute in the water, it's so warm and clear and just gorgeous that I could never stay out! I'm really glad she went in! I've always lived on the west coast and swimming and beaches were a part of my up bringing I forget how some people have never had the same exposure that I have, and find it interesting that they'd be so afraid! I'm even more glad that she got Maddie to go in! I really think that the more you expose children like her to different and uncomfortable situations, the more "Brave" they will become.

I know a little boy who is a lot like Maddie, he wants control of the things around him and sort of flips out when he doesn't get it, his mom has a terrible time getting him to do anything new including trying new clothes and eating new foods.

I can't wait to see the Wedding vows renewed, that should be really sweet.

kimber said...

calebsmom:

What does getting a degree in writing have to do with Beth playing a major role in the book? It could be part of the reason she's not available to drop things to appear on the show anymore. How many times was Beth even on the show at all? Not that often. She helped Kate with the book, she's credited as a co-author but she's not the focus of the book and there is no book tour, so why would Beth go along on those appearances? Jon and Kate are constantly promoting the show. Just because the show has been on for a while doesn't mean promoting it stops. They probably have more opportunity to promote the show now that it's become more popular and shows like GMA are willing to give them air time. Kate was on the Bonnie Hunt Show and I don't think she even mentioned the book at all. She mentioned Kmart, because she's doing a promotion with that store.

If you can't believe Kate herself, who said that Beth still takes the little kids every once in a while, then it's because you don't want to believe it. I'm willing to believe otherwise until Beth or Kate mention it.

Beth's not seen at all, but neither is Carla, and we know that she is still in their lives, because in a webisode it's mentioned that Carla's daughter was over at the house in between trips.

Even if there is something between them, why should we ever know? It's none of our business who Jon and Kate are friends with why they are friends with them or why they aren't friends anymore. I'm not holding out for "someday." I like Beth, but if she did have a falling out with Kate I admire both of them for taking the high road and leaving it private, unlike Jodi who just made herself look like a bitter money hungry fool.

Guinevere said...

Beth is the one that is going to Albright College for a BA degree in writing. So I'm sure that she had a major rule in putting Mutiple Blessing's together.

FWIW, having recently finished Multiple Blessings - the "voice" is very much Kate's. Like, recognizably Kate's voice. I'm sure someone copy-edited it, but unless Beth has a very similar voice to Kate's, I'm not sure how much she actually wrote. There's not really any way of knowing, I guess.

I don't assume that there is an estrangement between Kate and Beth, but I do think there's probably a reason she hasn't been on the show. Maybe she's busy with her writing program. Maybe they've grown apart a bit. I wouldn't assume that there was some big falling out, though I guess that is a possibility, as well.

calebsmom said...

Like i said, who knows what happened. Something just doesn't look right. Personally, it doesn't really matter much to me what the deal is with the two of them.

I enjoy the watching the kids. They make me laugh. After a long day at work, I look forward to seeing their smiles when their show is on. Each child has a certain thing that make them unique. Their little voices are cute. It would be nice if they could stay little forever. :)

aap said...

Linda -

I understand that change doesn't come overnight. But eventually, your son improves, right? Mady's behavior seems to be getting worse. If it is so disruptive that she has to be disciplined 3 times while on vacation - I am basing the belief that she acted out on Kate's comments on why she wasn't there - I think that shows Mady has a bigger problem than your average time out can cure, and maybe Jon and Kate need to look into alternative methods that might benefit Mady (and the whole family) better.

If the goal was to have a fun family vacation for everyone to enjoy then I don't think it was too successful. In previous episodes, Mady has complained that the younger kids like Cara better than they like her. Somehow, don't think that sentiment is gone. The Hawaii/San Diego episodes just emphasizes how separate Mady is from the rest of the family. She doesn't participate in 3 activities that everyone else does. You see her happiest doing the hula lessons by herself. When Jon and Cara are in the water, Jon leaves Mady alone to play on the beach with a couple of kids that he says she just met. I just hope for Mady's sake that things improve soon.

peanutbutterjellytime said...

Calebsmom,

Yes, I have to agree with you that Kate and Beth have parted. We saw so much of her and then she's gone. Beth has rights to a certain portion of the money that is made off of the book that she co-authored. Another thing is that Jon used to work for Beth's husband, and now he doesn't. That might have something to do with the whole situation. Kate probably was booked to go on all the shows with Beth to promote the book that they wrote. But once they were no longer friends, Kate couldn't cancel, so she made it seem like she was promoting the show Jon and Kate + 8. It's kinda odd how Kate was on all the shows at the same time that the new book came out. She picked a strange time to promote their show. Now that book sales are down, we don't see her at all on any shows promoting J&K+8.

d2s said...

You are correct. It isn't fair to Mady that other children's parents cannot properly teach them that teasing is and will always be unacceptable at any age.

Poor Mady doesn't stand a chance in school when folks do not properly train their children to treat others as they would be treated.
------------------

Oh come on! That is one of the most unfair statements I have read recently. Mady doesn't stand a chance because folks don't train their children not to tease? Give me a break! I adore Mady. I feel so bad for her. She obviously has a lot of issues. I have a family member who is very similar to her. But to say that it's the fault of people not "training" their children is just ignorant. No matter HOW much you tell a child it's wrong to tease, it's not nice to do it, and to treat others like you want to be treated....they're KIDS. They're going to tease, they're goint to taunt. It's all a part of growing up. Not a nice part, but a part. Not every child does it, but I would say a good chunk of my elementary peers did. And most parents don't want to believe their child does it, but a LOT do. I would hope Mady isn't teased, but unfortunately, she probably is. I just love that girl :)

Guinevere said...

maybe Jon and Kate need to look into alternative methods that might benefit Mady (and the whole family) better.

Well, we don't know that they aren't. And they seem sort of damned if they do, damned if they don't, since talking about Mady's issues is bad, but then not talking about them leads some people to assume that they aren't doing anything.

Oh come on! That is one of the most unfair statements I have read recently. Mady doesn't stand a chance because folks don't train their children not to tease? Give me a break! I adore Mady. I feel so bad for her. She obviously has a lot of issues.

I don't agree that she obviously has a lot of issues. She's obviously moody and given to hissy fits. She is a bit of drama queen and a whiner. It's all within the range of normal childhood behavior, IMO.

But to say that it's the fault of people not "training" their children is just ignorant. No matter HOW much you tell a child it's wrong to tease, it's not nice to do it, and to treat others like you want to be treated....they're KIDS. They're going to tease, they're goint to taunt. It's all a part of growing up. Not a nice part, but a part. Not every child does it, but I would say a good chunk of my elementary peers did. And most parents don't want to believe their child does it, but a LOT do. I would hope Mady isn't teased, but unfortunately, she probably is. I just love that girl :)

Okay, well, then, do you agree that it's normal enough that the fact that Mady's on the show isn't likely a huge factor in whether she's teased or not? I mean, you (I mean a general you, not specifically you) can't have it both ways: if teasing is a normal, natural part of childhood (which I tend to agree that it is, though that doesn't mean parents aren't responsible for teaching their children to be kind), then I don't think you can turn around and say that it's just so awful that they show Mady's tantrums on the show because it will expose her to teasing.

d2s said...

Mady is a child in school. I would hazard a guess that she's not being teased (if she even is) solely on the fact that she's on TV. I do, however, believe that the fact that her tantrums are shown on the show will not help her in any way. That just gives kids more ammunition.

Heather said...

"it may be that only by being part of a large family is Mady going to learn to deal with not being the center of attention. If she were, say, an only child, she might be a happier child, but she might grow up into a woman with really unrealistic expectations about the world and her place in it."

Guin,

That's a very good point. Our culture has become too child-centric. Yes; we should try to meet our child's needs, but ultimately, our job as parents is to raise our kids to be self-sufficient, functioning members of society. My daughter used to have a friend (named Mattie, ironically)who was an only child and whose mother indulged her and let her have her own way all the time. The mom meant well; she just wanted her child to be happy. But by the time she was in middle school, the kid was depressed and in counseling. She always complained that people were mean to her and life wasn't fair. I watched the way she interacted with my daughter, and noticed that Mattie always had to decide what game they would play, what TV show they would watch. If my daughter suggested something different, she would withdraw, go sit by herself and say she was bored (or worse, start text messaging another friend). Basically, she wasn't happy unless she was getting her way, because that's what she'd come to expect. She was set up to be disappointed by the world.

A Mom-ynous said...

" But to say that it's the fault of people not "training" their children is just ignorant. No matter HOW much you tell a child it's wrong to tease, it's not nice to do it, and to treat others like you want to be treated....they're KIDS. "

I see your point, but I find it quite ignorant to moderate my parenting based on the fear that some brat will call my kid a name.

People defend Mady on this premise that she will get teased.

If kids will be kids and tease, it won't really matter what choices you make with your kids.

IOW--if kids are going to tease anyway, I won't let that stop me from making decisions for my family.

My daughter is homeschooled. She has public schooled friends. I am not going to place in her public school on the premise that her public school friends may someday inappropriately make fun of her for how she is educated.

Now that would be ignorant.

I won't live my life in fear of bullies.

jace said...

"You are correct. It isn't fair to Mady that other children's parents cannot properly teach them that teasing is and will always be unacceptable at any age.

Poor Mady doesn't stand a chance in school when folks do not properly train their children to treat others as they would be treated."


Oh, I so agree with this. Kids can be cruel but I don't think it has to be that way. I think parents do have to teach their kids how to deal with being teased and/or bullied but they also have to teach their kids empathy toward someone else.

The kids sure don't have to go very far for reinforcement for that behavior. They can just read the internet blogs to see how adults treat a little child like Mady. Or they can watch what passes for comedy on TV which is all about put downs. Ditto politics.

If the message that they get is that it's funny and that it makes you superior in some way, then there you go.

When I taught school, I had many a-talk with parents and students about teasing/bullying. I couldn't believe how often it was excused with a kids-will-be-kids shrug from parents and administration. No, kids will rise or fall to the level that we demand from them.

If we were treated on the job like some kids are treated in school, than we would file harassment charges or a lawsuit for a hostile work environment or something. We certainly wouldn't put up with it the way we expect kids to.

Whew, hot button issue. Um, carry on. :)

ilovehaters said...

The reason that Mady acts the way that she does is because she is just like Kate. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Kate knows this too.

Can someone please tell me why it's called sixgosselins.com and not eightgosselins? After all. there is eight children. Why are Mady and Cara not included?

Lizabeth said...

I believe the website is sixgosselins because it started before the tups were born as a way to share prayer requests and information with those asking questions. Between their home church at the time and the people who heard of Jon and Kate through the media, it probably seemed easiest to just set up a site like that instead of having to relay the same thing over and over and over again. I'm sure they *could* change it now, but that seems to be a plausible reason why it began that way.

SamanthaNC said...

ilovehaters-

How is Mady just like Kate?

ilovepeoplewithcommonsense said...

Can someone please tell me why it's called sixgosselins.com and not eightgosselins? After all. there is eight children. Why are Mady and Cara not included?

Why would this be an issue and who would this be an issue to?

ilovehaters said...

To samanthanc,

You ask how is Mady like Kate? I will tell you that their temperament and profile are the same. I have a Masters Degree and Doctorate in Psychology. I can tell plenty about a person by their body language also. I am trained to do that. Kate and Mady come from the same make-up so to speak.


To ilovepeoplewithcommonsense,

You ask why would this be an issue? I don't think it's an issue, it was a question. Common sense tells you that the Gosselins family consists of eight children, not six. For the Gosselin parents not to have eightgosselins.com makes the other two children feel like they are not important or that they don't even exist. I see no reason why the Gosselin parents can't change it, do you?

ilovehaters said...

I am trying to find the website to sign the petition to keep the show on the air. The petition site I went to, do-not-cancel, told me that it doesn't exist anymore. Can you girls help me. Thanks.

Nina Bell said...

I love haters,

I have never heard of that petition and have never seen anyone post about it here. Not sure why that would be needed.

Anyone else??

ilovehaters said...

I could be wrong, but I thought that there was a petition on one of the websites to keep the show on. In fact, I remember clicking on some website that went to the petition. I was in a hurry that day and didn't have enough time to fill it out. I just thought I could go to it another day when I had time. The only petition I can find now, is one to cancel the show. If you can find it, please post it.

SamanthaNC said...

ilovehaters-

I'm not trying to come across harshly but no psychologist worth their salt makes these kind of conclusions about "subjects" they've never observed in the flesh. Mady is a child who displays childike beahvior. Kate is an adult, Mady is not and therefore not finished developing- hopefully!

ilovehaters said...

samanthanc,

You obviously don't know what I'm trained to do. I don't need to observe "subjects" in the "flesh" to know what is going on with them. Why are you making such a big deal that I say that Kate and Mady are very much alike? I did not say that was a bad thing, so why are you being so harsh? Just because Kate is an adult and Mady's a child, doesn't mean that they don't share the same profile. Kate is Mady's mother, so why wouldn't they be alike? After all, they share the same DNA.

SamanthaNC said...

The reason that Mady acts the way that she does is because she is just like Kate. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Kate knows this too.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree is your "professional" opinion? A thousand pardons if your comment was not meant in a negative way but it certainly sounds like it, and yes I question the training of anyone who thinks they have an accurate personality "profile" of two people they've observed in a limited/edited fashion on a television show. Especially bc what we see of Mady is quite limited. I suppose I expect more from the mental health community. If you can so easily profile someone kudos to you- you must be at the top of our field.

Kate is Mady's mother, so why wouldn't they be alike? After all, they share the same DNA.

Kate is also the mother of 7 other children- are they "just like" her also? DNA alone does not a personality make. Not to mention Jon- does his dna not affect Mady also?

ilovehaters said...

samanthanc,

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree was not a negative comment at all. I was just making a statement. As far as DNA, it comes from both parents. As far as Mady goes you can see that she is more like Kate than Jon. That is VERY obvious and I'm sure you would agree with that. What we see of Mady and Kate is not "quite" limited. They not only have their own show, they have also been seen on talk shows. So to say that what we see of them is "quite" limited is not a true statement at
all. They all are VERY much in the public eye. It's not like we only see them once in awile. They are constantly on television.

By the way, I am at the top in my field, and I can profile people very easily. I am good at what I do.

merryway said...

I remember seeing petition sites listed in searches quite awhile ago. I think the one to keep it on the air was dead even then.
I agree that Kate and Mady are alike Some of Mady's meltdowns seem exactly like Kate's over situations they can't control or if they feel like they're losing control.
Ilovehaters, I have no problem with your opinion. I am not quite as believing of when you use your accomplishments to shore it up. If you're going to site your particular field of study, I would hope you wouldn't be so glib with your opinion. You don't have a problem with modesty do you?

Nina Bell said...

Ilovehaters

I would have never guessed that you were a man from the way that you write. I see from your profile that you are a swat team member. So are you a police officer with your PHD or do you function in another capacity. I just find it interesting, I am not trying to be critical.

I would also like to ask what is behind your screen name.

SamanthaNC said...

What we see of Mady is indeed limited and I'm glad bc she doesnt seem to enjoy the cameras at all for the most part. I'm sorry but the only simlarity I see in the two of them is that they are vocal about how they feel- but thankfully not in the same way. Kate can certainly be too harsh with Jon, however she is hardly a tantrum throwing child. To say that a 30 something year old woman is just like a child who is labeled as having poor behavior is unfair. If you don't like her fine. Complain about her love taps, her mispronunciations, her need for control, her obsessiveness with perfection, but it is dsrespectful to compare her to a child.
On another note- I never would have guessed you were a man either.

floridamom said...

I don't think it is a huge assumption to say that Mady and Kate are alike. Jon and Kate have said that themselves on previous episodes. They also have said that Cara is more like Jon. They have later said they didn't want to lable them--but they did make those comparisons on numerous occasions. Both of my children have both my husband and my DNA, but my older son is a lot like his father. My younger son is not in temperment like either one of us, lol!

ilovehaters said...

Yes ladies, I am a man. I have the parts to show it!

I don't feel like my opinions are glib. As far as modesty, I'm dealing with a bunch of women here. So perhaps, I am modest. Why wouldn't you have guessed that I was a man? I do have many roles within my field. I sometimes serve as a hostage negotiator. I am also an instructor in my field. The reason for my screen name is because the majority of people (if not all) that we deal with, hate us. However, I love them because without them I wouldn't have a job!
Therefore, I love haters!

P.S. Am I the only man than posts here?

SamanthaNC said...

Well can we call you in a crisis? LOL