Monday, December 22, 2008

OPEN DISCUSSION


With the holidays upon us and no new show, please take the opportunity to drop in and talk about whatever is on your mind.

94 comments:

Anya said...

http://www.zap2it.com/news/custom/photogallery/specialsections/zap-photogallery-underrated2008,0,7260752.photogallery?index=5

In case anyone is interested our own Jon Gosselin made an appearance in Zap2it's recent column "TV's Underrated of 2008" It's a nice write-up!

Also, for you "30 Rock" fans - Tracy's entourage Dotcom and Grizz were mentioned.

Good choices all around IMO!

Guinevere said...

Aw, nice to see Jon get some love. Cute pic of him, too!

Nina Bell said...

Anya

Thanks for the link. Interesting. I had never seen that site before.

Saint said...

Jon's my favorite Gosselin right now. I just love how he plays with his kids. I also love his subtle humor. Great link, Anya!

Nina Bell said...

Hi tintin,

We are aware of that article but we are avoiding posting a link to it here. Really do not want to contribute to this article getting any more readership but I know it is posted on other blogs. Feel free to discuss it though. I think most people have seen it elsewhere.

Thank,

Nina

SamanthaNC said...

Nice to see Jon get a little just Jon shout out! I've always liked him and I think he is an under rated part of the show - Also lately Jonny boy is lookin good ;)

Anya said...

SamanthaNC said...Nice to see Jon get a little just Jon shout out! I've always liked him and I think he is an under rated part of the show - Also lately Jonny boy is lookin good ;)

I agree on both counts! A man who loves young children and wants to be around them is super sexy. I always marvel at how young he is too.

I also think he's got that ironic sense of humor that Kate has. They can be quite funny together.

michelle said...

I just watched the show, "Little people, Big World". I have to say it made me shed a few tears. The episode covered the death of their dear family friend, Mike.

I have to say that Mike was indeed lucky to have such a relationship with Matt and Amy and the kids. And the Roloffs were blessed to have had Mike in their lives.

We really do need to appreciate the people in our lives, rather it be for a short time or a long time.

Did anyone else see this episode tonight? I really do like the Roloffs. I thought it was touching to see how loved Mike was by Matt and Amy and the Kids.

Anya said...

Oh, I have been meaning to compliment Nina about how festive the site has been looking lately. I love when I open the blog the first thing I see is the beautiful tree and the snow flakes. Great job! These little things - along with a fantastic group of people - make this my favorite place to visit!

Anya said...

"Did anyone else see this episode tonight? I really do like the Roloffs. I thought it was touching to see how loved Mike was by Matt and Amy and the Kids."

I haven't, but I will make it a point to check it out. I kind of thought we were in all re-run mode until after the holidays so I didn't bother to turn on the tv.

michelle said...

Anya,

I believe tonight's episode (Little People, Big world) was their last "new" episode for this year. I think the new shows will start in 2009. I know Jon and Kate plus 8 was a re-run tonight.

It was touching and sad.

Jersey Girl said...

Michelle - I watched LPBW also. I sobbed and I didn't even know Mike!

I thought Matt was acting a little indifferent until he cried at the party. I hope that wasn't an act. (Im trying not to let my dislike of Matt overtake me like certain people do with Kate LOL)

Mike did so much for that family. He was definitely the rational adult male that the kids and Amy could turn to.

Linda said...

Michelle,

I watched that episode tonight too while I was addressing my "Happy New Year" cards.

I cried too. Mike seemed like a really great man and I've always noticed his quiet strength in helping with project, coaching the kids, etc.

It was very interesting to see Zach's reaction to his dad crying. Wow. I remember the first time that I saw my dad cry. I was in high school and it really messed me up.

Linda said...

Also, big thanks to the moderators here. Thanks for keeping things orderly and civil.

scarfoot said...

LPBW really was upsetting last night. Before the episode where Mike died, they showed the one where Mike and Jacob were hit by the trebuchet, and it was a very emotional episode for me as well.

I watched that episode with my parents, and we had an interesting discussion about if it's common for children to never see their parents cry. One of the Roloffs said that they had never seen their dad cry. My mother seemed pretty surprised when I said that I thought most people would say that they'd never seen their dad (and many times their mom) cry. We talked about whether that is a good thing, or a bad thing. I don't think less of my dad because I've seen him cry (not often, but after something upsetting). Did any of you see your parents cry?

Nina Bell said...

My mom is very stoic but I have seen her cry on quite a few occasions. My father is a very warm and caring person. He would do anything for just about anyone. He is very much loved and respected by the small farming community that my parents live in.

However, he was raised in that time when men just didn't cry. So I had never seen him cry and he is 84. Until a year and a half ago. He had a major motor seizure in the middle of the night. First time he had experienced any health related problems. He had never even been hospitalized in the past.

All of the my brothers and sisters flew or drove home. None of us knew what was going on and wanted to be there. He was given all of the appropriate tests and it was determined that it was just an age related seizure.

We were all very thankful that it was not something more serious and one by one we left. Since I was the only one to travel a distance and fly home, I stayed the longest and was the last one to go. As we said our goodbyes, my dad started to cry. I had never ever seen him cry before. He said he had felt being in such good health all of his life he would live forever. That this was a wake up call. He also said he was afraid he would not see me again.

I can't tell you how hard it was for me to leave that day. That has stayed with me to this day and has made my connection with my father even deeper.

MonicaW42 said...

I watched LPBW and it was very sad. Matt gets on my nerves as well. I get to emotional about "Dad" talk. Now I will need to call him today, even though I saw him last week. I watched The Duggars to (since I am laid up Gimp as Samantha puts it :) ). I don't know how Michelle can be so nice and pleasant all the time. Kudos to her for that. I would tell Jim Bob enough already, but that's just me.

FIONA said...

Michelle,

I saw LPBW last night, and it was very sad. I kindof like the Roloff's.

FIONA said...

The first time I saw my Daddy cry was 2 years ago 2 days after Thanksgiving.

It was more of a dysfunctional family kind of cry...I was crying, my sis and my Dad!

It was the first time I thought he "got" what my sister and I had been trying to convey to him for years.

It affected me in kindof a good way, that he could relate to the hurt and pain. In some ways, felt like it was a good thing, if that makes sense.

Unfortunately, it didn't really take.


My daughter has seen me cry several times-mostly thru the teen years. She hasn't ever seen her Daddy cry tho.

FIONA said...

I wanted to comment on last night's rerun, Kate's Labor Day show.

Watching it again I must say I was really touched by Kate, especially when she started crying.

I think that interview occured around the time Julie starting sharing.

I remember that epi got really torn to pieces on GWOP.

Anyway, just wanted to say that!

FIONA said...

Nina,

I feel what you are saying about your Dad!

FIONA said...

I enjoy the Duggar's-they seem so real to me.

But I was really bugged last night when they showed Michelled picking out high end baby bedding.

They were not buying used.

If they turn into a commercial like the G's I will be very disappointed.

I am not saying Michelle does not deserve new, but it seem like it was just done for TV, and they went along with it.

Saint said...

Nina,
That's a very touching story. That must have been hard for you.

I have seen both my parents cry. My Dad is very sentimental, and I have caught him tearing up on his anniversary describing how wonderful my mother is, how much loves her, how he can never ever thank her for the joy she brings to him. My mom gets teary-eyed describing my "Mr. Wonderful" father, usually with a lovely glass of wine in her. I've seen them both weep openly, at funerals, gift-giving, weddings, toasts. We're cry-babies! I also think my parents have a great gift of being able to apologize, thank, welcome others, say good-bye, encourage us in difficult times, etc. They say the right things when they need to be said. Dad especially gives good advice. He writes great letters, etc. Have I mentioned how lucky I am?

Saint said...

Anya,
I agree that a man who likes his own children and knows how to play with them is sexy.

Linda said...

Saint -

You are really a fortunate person to have that example of married life in your family. I found myself smiling at your post. Thank you.

==========

Nina,

We took care of my husband's grandparents. I remember when Grandpa was ill and hospitalized. All he wanted to do was see "his kids" (my children). His eyes filled with tears and he asked me to bring them to him because he was afraid he wouldn't see them again. Gosh, just thinking about it makes me weepy.

What a wonderful connection you have to your dad. How absolutely awesome.

================

I'm a big cry-baby too. My kids will say things like,
"Here she goes!" or "Just let it out Mom." They're not teenagers so I've not yet seen the eye-roll but I'm sure it is coming.

================

scarfoot said...

OK, this is how I know I've been reading too many blogs about reality television. When I was watching Michelle Duggar go shopping, I turned to my mother and said "Oh sure, when TLC is willing to pay, they'll get new things but for the rest of the kids, they buy second hand!" I'm turning into a skeptic!

Rufus said...

The only time I've seen my father cry was when I was 13 and he was recovering from bypass surgery after a major heart attack. He went through a period of depression. I remember that I just froze. I couldn't believe what I was seeing and I really had no idea how to react.

My mom though? Sheesh. All the time, lol. She gets weepy. A lot.

scarfoot said...

I think, in moderation, it is good for parents to sometimes cry in front of your child. Sometimes, life stinks and it's OK to have some emotion about it. You don't want your kids to think that you should bottle everything up. But, there's a lot of importance in teaching your child to be strong through crisis. I think that the Roloff family really teaches their kids to always pick themselves up, and move forward. I doubt there was much crying in their house, ever.

Nina Bell said...

I would like to take this opportunity to welcome Lizabeth as one of our new moderators.

I had to give Mom, Guin and Nomoredrama a 10% pay cut, but I don't think they will feel the impact so much considering their salary is so high.

Anyway, welcome Lizabeth and we look forward to having your assistance.

Lizabeth said...

Thank you for the gracious welcome, Nina! I am excited to help out and hopefully bring some new ideas to GDNNOP.

Wow a lot of sad stories on here today... I remember once my dad cried from the pulpit (he is/was a pastor) due to the overwhelming pressure people placed on him as well as our family to be a certain way. It was heartbreaking to watch! He also cried at my younger brothers wedding (which he officiated) which set everyone off. I definitely take after my mom, who is more stoic and private about emotions in that way.

I missed LPBW but I would love to catch the rerun of that episode- I think I know who Mike is from the few times I have seen it before.

Guinevere said...

I would like to take this opportunity to welcome Lizabeth as one of our new moderators.

I had to give Mom, Guin and Nomoredrama a 10% pay cut, but I don't think they will feel the impact so much considering their salary is so high.


Hmph. That's what you think. I had to let one of the footmen go. But he works on my country estate, and since I'm only there once a month, I guess it's no great loss. And Lizabeth is worth it.

Welcome, Lizabeth!

Guinevere said...

I don't watch LPBW generally, but I can relate to the stories about parents crying. Both of my parents have now passed away. I'm not sure that I recall ever seeing my dad cry. He was VERY closed up in regard to his feelings. I do know there were times at the end of his life where it was hard to see him vulnerable - not crying but just confused or unhappy. It's very hard to see a parent like that when you aren't used to it.

My mom cried rarely. In fact, that was one of the ways you knew that you had REALLY been bad - "you've made Mom cry - wow". It did bring about instant remorse, since her tears were so rare.

Interestingly, my sister and I are both way more emotional and tears-prone than either of our parents were.

Stacey said...

I don't understand the comparison to Hollywood celebrities. When the Hollywood celebrities got where they are due to their talent. This couple is only famous for having a bunch of kids and putting the kids on tv. The only celebrities they could similar to is the cast of The Hills, and their scripted reality show.

FIONA said...

Scarfoot,

I posted my feelings about the Duggar's buying new on a different thread...it bugged me too.

Hope they aren't going to become a commercial like the G's.

Guinevere said...

I don't understand the comparison to Hollywood celebrities. When the Hollywood celebrities got where they are due to their talent. This couple is only famous for having a bunch of kids and putting the kids on tv. The only celebrities they could similar to is the cast of The Hills, and their scripted reality show.

I disagree that all Hollywood celebrities got where they are due to their talent. Hollywood is full of people who have fame and as little or less talent than the cast of The Hills.

I'm not going to be one of those people who drag out dictionary definitions to prove a point, but the Gosselins are on tv, they are, to a degree, famous - I don't think that celebrity is an entirely inaccurate word to describe them.

merryway said...

Nina, thank you so much for sharing that story. You got me all weepy in a good way. Holidays bring my emotions up to the surface and it's a good time for those thoughts. My father was definitely not one to let you see him get emotional. I did see him hide behind a curtain and cry at his sister's funeral, I was about 7 yo. It wasn't until about 15 years later that I was again hearing the story of how he wrote me my mother for socks while he was in Korea. She sent him “nice” socks that were thin and he wanted socks because he was freezing. He came to the part where he gave them to an orphan who had a big pair of combat boots some GI had given him. He started to say something more about talking to the boy he suddenly got choked up and said something about the orphans and walked away. This time he couldn't make the story a joke and I had no idea he had those feelings. It wasn't until then that I realized how upsetting the war had been for my father.

My kids have seen me cry, but they know if I'm doing it in front of them I must really be upset about something.

Rufus said...

I just saw this on the other site - pictures from the remodel of the Gosselins' old house. All I can say is holy crap. And I do mean crap. That is some seriously ugly stuff going on in that house. No wonder she didn't like it. Who could?

http://www.fauxinteriors.com/nbc.php

merryway said...

Welcome Lizabeth! Do you get a key to executive lounge? At least a matching coffee cup? :)

Scarfoot, I seem to be more cynical these days. I watched the Duggars last night and they were picking out a layette. The husband kept talking about keeping the expense in check. I kept wondering “don't they get that for free?” But now I'm wondering is it because he promotes that no debt lifestyle for which they do seminars? Oh is anything really what it seems?

I also like the festive site.

Lizabeth said...

Thanks for the warm welcome, guys... I would like to thank the academy...er...yeah. Just wanted to say I am happy to be a part of a site where people are so gracious and kind. Its like family, in a way-- you can disagree and squabble, but at the end of the day you do an awkward side-hug and its water under the bridge :).

Rufus, I agree completely!! I even read comments from some serious anti-Gosselin posters who were pretty horrified at the remodel. Now imagine being away from home for months, having 6 babies prematurely (one of which is sick when you see what they did to your house), being physically not at your peak after a really rough pregnancy and bedrest, then being required to have a camera in your face when you see that remodel. Plus Kate did not know they were going to do anything with the twins room OR the nursery, so she was not only upset about what was done, but also that her nesting instinct and comfortable house had been turned upside down more than she had allowed.

Obviously, I give her a pass on that one :).

Saint said...

I saw the remodel too, thanks Fiona. Yuk! Humpty Dumpty would scare me, too. I have NO IDEA how I would have dealt with that post-partum (from 6 babies! Yikes!)

Poor Kate! is all I can say. I might have thrown paint on the walls in response!

Saint said...

Yeah Lizabeth! Are you assigned to the complaint department or the compliments only window?

Lizabeth said...

Uh oh, Saint... I don't know... hmm... hey I see something *over there* that I should go do... uhh... be back never...

LOL!

Nina Bell said...

Merryway,

Is that a picture of the house you made? How lovely. The picture is small but it looks like you had success.

merryway said...

Nina, that's one of them. My little one and a friend's son did all the decorating (he's an 11yo boy and can't wait every year to take his gingerbread house home). I suspect some year soon he's going to opt out. :(
They had a good time (one of our traditions) and I also took them to see The Tale of Despereaux. My little one keeps wanting to change my pic now.

merryway said...

Lizabeth, is that your little nephew? Whoever it is, they're a cutie.

Lizabeth said...

Merryway, its actually a picture of me from back when I was one year old :). I had just gotten my Strawberry Shortcake doll and was thrilled (my Grandpa nicknamed be Strawberry Shortcake because of how much I loved that doll). I decided to scan and upload a massive amount of old pictures lately and thought this one was adorable :).

I have lots of pics of my nephew though- I may change my avatar to one of him someday soon...

Thanks for thinking I am a cutie (... 27 years ago lol)

Theresa said...

My dad never liked it when my sister, mom, or I would cry. Funny story though...

My parents were getting new carpeting and on the top of the stairs was a roll of plastic sheets (I can't remember what for). Well, I ran up to the bathroom and you guess it! On my way back, before I even stepped onto the first step, I tripped on the roll of plastic and rolled all the way down the steps! You know, the whole way going down it was all slo-mo to me. (It's funny, we laugh about it all the time!). I was aching and crying. My parents ran to the bottom of the steps and my mom's hysterical because I just rolled over and over down the steps and my dad's words to me was, "stop crying!". Then he picked me up, as I was a heap on the floor.

My dad just didn't like us crying. I don't think I ever saw him crying either. Only tears from all the laughter and fun we used to have. He was notorious for jokes and fun.

Thanks for letting me share. What a great guy he was. Now, my angel in heaven.

merryway said...

Lizabeth, lol, I was going to sincerely say he was a very pretty boy, but I was afraid it might be misread in text.

Lizabeth said...

Merryway he actually is really pretty-- long eyelashes and huge blue eyes. The scary thing is he looks JUST like his daddy (one of my younger brothers) so as I found old pics we started comparing father and son. Lets just say there was NOT a mix up at the hospital :)!

BEE said...

Thanks for the link to the remodel. I know that those people really put a lot of time and effort into doing something nice for the Gosselins. However, they should of taken Jon and Kate's personal style and taste into consideration.

The murals in the nursery are cute. But I completely agree with Kate on this one! It was far to stimulating and loud for 6 premature babies that were use to the sterile environment of the hospital.

I too give Kate a complete pass on this issue!

Welcome Lizabeth!!

BEE said...

I am amazed (and thrilled for the Gosselins) that every B&N in my area in Ohio is completely sold out of Multiple Blessings! It is going to be a Gosselin Christmas!!

Theresa said...

Oh my goodness. I just saw the remodel link. That Humpty Dumpty is SCARY!!

A-Momynous said...

Okay--I saw the first LPBW on TIVO. Haven't watched the second.

Those who haven't seen their father cry until someone died, I would consider that a blessing.

My hubby--is not a big cryer. You would have to really ROCK his world (in a bad way) before his voice will even crack let alone shed a tear (happens quickly one after the other).

The first time I saw HIM cry--was when a Fraternity brother was killed in a car accident. And he didn't cry much.

The first time I saw my dad cry, made me feel very uncomfortable due to the circumstances and demonstrated weakness and selfishness that have been permanently etched into my memory.

From the small snippets of Matt speaking where he is clearly choked up with grief, I do feel those sound quite genuine.

My husband didn't cry until the actual wake/funeral.

I guess for some guys--after the shock wears off, the tears come at realization.

A Mom-ynous said...

Oh..another thing on my mind.

I watched "and baby makes 18"--I felt so bad that Michelle had to have a c-section. I know we can't plan how our babies will be born...but she handled it well. Very much a "God won't give me what I can't handle" kind of vibe.

But man, when they showed everyone with Michelle in recovery--I felt so bad that they had to show her at a very weak moment. She clearly was still suffering side effects of the epidural/spinal (chattering teeth and very cold). She could hardly speak due to the shivering when telling Jim Bob the baby's name.

I do not fault TLC, the production company or the Duggars for showing that moment--but it really showed the realities of birth and had me worried if she was sick post-delivery and it near scared me into the "what if" moment. Her body her right. I could not "go there" if she passed...but that is just how weak she looked to me as those thoughts entered my head.

Gives me the heeby jeebies. But I do wish the Duggars well and hope her recovery is going much better.

Anya said...

A Mom-ynous said..."I watched "and baby makes 18"--I felt so bad that Michelle had to have a c-section. I know we can't plan how our babies will be born...but she handled it well. Very much a "God won't give me what I can't handle" kind of vibe.

But man, when they showed everyone with Michelle in recovery--I felt so bad that they had to show her at a very weak moment. She clearly was still suffering side effects of the epidural/spinal (chattering teeth and very cold). She could hardly speak due to the shivering when telling Jim Bob the baby's name.

I do not fault TLC, the production company or the Duggars for showing that moment--but it really showed the realities of birth and had me worried if she was sick post-delivery and it near scared me into the "what if" moment. Her body her right. I could not "go there" if she passed...but that is just how weak she looked to me as those thoughts entered my head.

Gives me the heeby jeebies. But I do wish the Duggars well and hope her recovery is going much better."


I think the whole family might have been on "The Today Show" yesterday? I think she is doing better now?

I half watched the Duggar show last night while reading. I'll have to watch again to see what you pointed out. I feel for Michelle. Again, as with the Gosselins, there are *big* differences in our life outlooks, values and temperaments, but as another human, I have compassion. She handles a lot that is thrown at her with grace. When I am not feeling well, I so want to be left alone in misery. I cannot imagine having to have 20+ relatives hanging around, not to mention a film crew!

Theresa said...

I realize J&K+8 has a lot of sponsors, but I hope one of those will at least buy The Duggars' show. And, I hope it's Old Navy or Gap that can outfit those young girls. They need an updated wardrobe. It would also be such a treat for them.

I certainly don't say this to be mean. I just think they really deserve it. They are pretty girls and they are wearing long jean skirts (and other materials)and look very Quaker or Amish. I guess if they weren't home schooled, they'd be ridiculed by their peers.

I do like Matt Roloff a lot. He's so positive. He seems like the real deal.

I think Jon and Kate are a really cute couple. They are perfect for each other.

Saint said...

Merryway,
Congratulations on that gingerbread house! It looks yummy! Do you eat yours?

MoreCowbell said...

I mentioned this on BabyMama's site, but I want to bring it up here, too.

Everyone in our department got a Border's gift card last week. I immediately logged into their site and took advantage of a free shipping day and ordered three books. One of them was Multiple Blessings. Read it in a day. It's a good read. One thing that struck me was the chapter where Kate tells us how she and Jon came up with names for the 'tups. She tells of the phone call she had with her brother, Kevin, informing him that Baby F was going to be named Joel Kevin and his reaction to it, and how touched he was. It actually made me sad to read. It was written to be uplifting, but all I could think was "how sad." Who knew that three years later, that touching (and permanent) gesture would be ruined by Kevin's wife's sister and her flapping gums/keyboard. That she would be the catalyst for Kevin and his namesake no longer having a relationship? Oh sure, the haters and trolls can say it was Kate's fault, but really, if Julie hadn't broadcast her catty gossip on the World Wide Web for complete strangers to read, things like "Gumgate" would have blown over by now. Every family has disagreements and this would have gone by the wayside like everything else. But, having your sister-in-law align herself with haters and cyberstalkers who's main goal in life is to bring down the Gosselins, a family disagreement has become a full blown war. Do you really think it would have been blown this much out of proportion had Julie kept her nose out of it (or Jodi had the balls to tell her overbearing sister to STOP).

Way to go, Julie. [insert golf clap, here] You should be so freaking proud of yourself!

Another thought. I also watch the Roloff's and Duggar's (oh, let's face it. I'm TLC's b*tch). Have you seen that house the Roloff's have now? Thanks to TLC, that modest home has become a McMansion (that I'm sure the kids will trash eventually with piles of clothes, fast food wrappers and Gatorade bottles). Funny how this works. Are the "advocates" complaining about that? Seems that the Roloff's are living pretty high off the TLC hog. Pool, hot tub, nice tennis and basketball courts. Not to mention calling a decorating company to put up $10,000 worth of Christmas decorations up (probably for free since we saw the name of the company broadcast multiple times). Now, I understand how it works with product placement and freebies. More power to the Roloff's for doing it. But, where's the outrage from the advocates? Even the Duggar's are not immune. Heck, I don't blame Michelle for cashing in on the free layette, especially since she hasn't had a new one since Josh, 20 years and 18 babies ago. That huge home was also furnished and decorated by TLC. Whatever.

My philosophy is that if someone wants to cash in om my life (and TLC certainly is), my family is getting something in return.

Daisy said...

Theresa,

The Duggars dress the way they do on purpose as part of the religious group they are involved with. Some of the older episodes show friends from their group and they are dressed the same. :)

FIONA said...

A couple of things....

Michelle was just going thru a normal response from the drugs in her system. The chattering teeth are very normal because the delivery room/OR suite is kept very cold to inhibit bacteria growth.

Still, she is a trooper.

Second, I really hope that a clothing company does not come in at start outfitting the family. It will completely change the essence of the show for me, and the Duggar's philosophy!

I think the kids are dressed fine-not my style, but they are clean and warm, and that is who they are!

Please Duggar's, don't change for TV!

merryway said...

Saint, oh no, I wouldn't eat the gingerbread off these. The do eat the candy off of it though. The ones we make are those little $10.00 Willy Wonka sets and they are a piece of cake. Everything's in there including the pre-made royal icing (but you usually have to make a little more). Who knows how long ago that gingerbread was made? I think it's mostly flour w/ginger flavor so it will stay flat. Many years ago when I was more ambitious, I did attempt one from scratch.. Last year I watched a big gingerbread competition on the food network, it was incredible!! I kept trying to catch it again this year, but it was never on when I was down.

Theresa said...

Thanks Daisy. I wasn't aware the Duggers dressed that way due to their religious beliefs. Forget the sponsors of clothes for the kids. Now that I know that, I don't want sponsors to dress the kids. I don't want their beliefs compromised.

I just thought they made their clothes because of financial reasons.

Theresa said...

MoreCowbell--I'm with you on your post! The families of all the TLC shows are "moving on up" as George Jefferson did.

I loved this...

(oh, let's face it. I'm TLC's b*tch).

Thanks for the laugh!

A Mom-ynous said...

"I half watched the Duggar show last night while reading. I'll have to watch again to see what you pointed out. :"

It was at the end. She was in her post-natal room all covered up with very chattery teeth. This is a commoon side effect with an epidural (I had it with my last), but I don't know why it was still going on. My chattering went away after delivery and the epi was off (the paralysis didn't for 10 hours eek! I am supersenstive to meds).

So I don't know if it was b/c of the surgery.

But glad to know she is looking much better.

She looked like she felt ran over with a mac track on the episode. She might just have been very freezing.

A Mom-ynous said...

"I just thought they made their clothes because of financial reasons."

They decide where they shop for financial reasons: Thrift stores. You can usually find some good pieces with wear time left.

What they were: modest clothing, nice shirts and long skirts for girls and slacks or denim for the guys is based on their beliefs.

They would dress the same way even if they shopped at Old Navy or Gap which both sell long skirts though not often in stores, Saks Fifth Avenue, Sears, or Salvation Army.

They would dress the same regardless of where they shop. :)

michelle said...

Does anyone know who Amy is from the Duggers?? I know she is not a Dugger. Is she the nanny? Just Curious.

Anya said...

michelle said...Does anyone know who Amy is from the Duggers?? I know she is not a Dugger. Is she the nanny? Just Curious.

I think she is a cousin. If I am not mistaken, on Jim Bob's side. She's cute. She seems to have a close relationship with them, although I believe she does not adhere to their very strict lifestyle.

Rufus said...

Waiting for the kids to go to bed so the Christmas magic can start.

Michelle,
Yes, Amy is a Duggar. She is Jim Bob's sister's daughter. His niece.

Linda said...

Hi All -

We had a small gathering yesterday for Christmas and our big gathering (over 30 people) is Sunday. So while we were doing some things, we had the LPBW marathon.

A couple things stood out to me that I hadn't noticed before.

LPBW has alot of product placements.

1) Sylvan Learning Centers
2) Skyventure (wind tunnel which is used to simulate sky-diving)
3) U-Haul
4) Resort that Amy & her Sibs went to for their mini-family reunion
5) Four Seasons

They are also seem to be practicing Christians. Do they attract the level of scrutiny for their decisions that the Gosselins do? Does anyone know?

Lizabeth said...

Linda, I watched a lot of LPBW yesterday as well and was shocked at how many products they showed. I even noticed signs in their yard for some company (can't remember what) as well as the obvious mention constantly of Matt's business, and all the hotels, restaurants, and vacations they take.

I see nothing wrong with product placement at all... I just am amazed at how some people find the Gosselins completely at fault and Roloffs innocent. They do the SAME thing-- if anything its worse on the Roloff kids because they are in high school (oh look-- they have friends who have no problem being shown, and are adjusted to life even though they have been on TV for years!!). I would think for Molly that being a teen and having to grow up on screen would be far more detrimental than Mady, who is young and when she is in high school can say "Well I was 8- you were the same way at that age."

I feel like the kids will be teased no matter what, and the show has been changing so that they are given more privacy. I am also glad that Jon and Kate are showing the business aspects more (with their own work away from the show, like the TV appearances and such). It seems like this is a great way to keep the show (which gives them money) while protecting their kids more.

At any rate, I was also surprised at how even though the Roloffs do the same thing the Gosselins do they are held as an example and Jon and Kate are treated like vile human beings. Why is that?

FIONA said...

Hi Liz,

Honestly, I disagree with how this all affects the Roloff kids and I will explain why.

I think Zak and Jeremy have probably done OK with the cameras around. I think they might be viewed as big shots in their little town and small Christian school.

It seems like they had a good friend base when the show started, outside interests etc...and I bet the way it was pitched to the kids was in a way that they too would benefit. Trips, more money for the family etc...Also, because they are older I think they have had a say in what can or cannot be filmed.

I have not seen any of them filmed in a negative way-I have seen them be smart asses on TV, though, and I guess at 17 and 18 years old it is a big difference then having your tantrums filmed, bathroom trips etc.

I haven't seen Molly shown in a negative way either.

We have seen Jakob crying after an accident or two.

An I believe that Zak had a say in what got filmed with his surgery. I actually thought he was very brave and other little people kids probably got alot out of that episode.

There IS a lot of product placement, pool company signs, catering companies, trips etc...like you said.

It bothers me less, to none because the kids are old enough to have a say.

Both shows have become huge on product placement, and that is fine. I just don't like being sold something as a reality show, when clearly the reality of the G's has changed, the Roloff's and seems like the Duggar's won't be far off.


I do agree with you in the fact that if, IF GWOP was actually a child advocacy site, which it clearly is not, then the Roloff family should not be exempt from the scrutiny or the Duggar family.

The big difference is that GWOP HATES the Gosselin's and I don't think they give a rip about the other two families.

Bridget said...

This has nothing to do with Jon and Kate, but I just took my daughter to see Marley and Me. Sniff, sniff. She was fine, but I bawled like a baby at the end, and I usually don't cry right in the theater. It was a really good and cute movie. I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas with your families.

And welcome, Lizabeth!!

Lizabeth said...

Fiona,

Let me start by saying I do see where you are coming from. The Roloffs have been filming about as long as the Gosselins *but* their kids are older and thus have a bit more control in that way. My main point was that those who cry for advocacy then ignore minors like Jacob Roloff or most of the Duggar kids in that plea are missing a big piece of the puzzle.

One thing you said struck me- I have not seen any of them filmed in a negative way . I have to disagree with you there-- the Sylvan learning center filming does not show Jeremy or Zach in a positive light. They were both shown as zoning off when they should be studying, which to me was dismissive and rude to their teachers. I am also against how they display the kids as being sloppy and inconsiderate. Yes, all kids are this way, but to see them dumping trash and disrespecting their parents makes the kids look bad and the parents look like they cannot control their kids.

I am also VERY against how they show Matt and Amy having marital spats on TV. Jon and Kate have that dry sense of humor where they tease about Jon running away on foot and never coming back-- but its a joke and they are clear on that fact. In one episode last night Amy told Matt they should just separate and be done with it all since everyone was so stressed. I know we all say things we regret, but I think Jake would have a harder time watching that on TV than Mady would seeing herself throw a fit one minute when she is happy and playing the next.

Again, let me stress that I personally see no problem with either show. I really do like how the Gosselin's are shifting towards less focus on the kids (esp Mady and Cara who seem to have more privacy) and how they are filming a lot less.

Maybe that is exactly why I have a problem with how some people say LPBW is a phenomenal show then bash Jon and Kate plus 8... because if you think that a show is bad since it exploits the children, then you should look at all shows in that light. LPBW does show things I was really uncomfortable to watch (as I mentioned above) and that I am positive the kids will not appreciate having on tape. Yes, the Roloff kids are older, but if something is wrong for children than it should be wrong whether they are 4 or 14.

I agree that some of the issue lies in the hatred some people have for Kate and her personality rather than actually being against what the show does with the kids. That is really sad... it seems that no matter what Jon and Kate do to protect their children now, even taking the show off the air, people will still find something to complain about.

NotAPerfectMOm said...

Actually, the loss of privacy has harmed Jeremy Roloff in at least one major way. His Myspace messages to friends were posted and discussed, and they included some offensive racial language. He was absolutely pilloried on many sites. While I agree that his language was offensive, he certainly got more fallout from his mistakes than "non-celebrity" kids would.

Celebrity brings scrutiny, naturally. Somehow, though, the scrutiny of the Gosselins brings out some very nasty and personal feelings from some people. The bottom line for me personally is that whether or not someone is on tv does not give me the right to dictate how they should parent (which is at best a crap shoot for anyone just trying to do the right thing by their kids) and doesn't give me the moral standing to vilify anyone.

As you said, Fiona, it is about the personalities of the parents. People literally hate Kate, and that's the difference in the treatment of the Gosselins versus other reality families. Actual hatred for a tv personality is incomprehensible to me.

Theresa said...

Lizabeth, I think you're right on...

I agree that some of the issue lies in the hatred some people have for Kate and her personality rather than actually being against what the show does with the kids. That is really sad... it seems that no matter what Jon and Kate do to protect their children now, even taking the show off the air, people will still find something to complain about.

I think that's the whole basis for GWOP, total hatred of Kate. It is very sad indeed. But, after reading Multiple Blessings, I can tell you, I believe Kate and Jon don't care what any of the blogs say or do. They are looking out for their family. I've always believed God presented this opportunity to them in order to be able to afford to raise their kids. After reading the book, I am more convinced of that.

So in the big scheme of it all, it doesn't matter what I think, Fiona thinks, NC resident thinks, or anybody on this blog or any other blog, especially 3 Farmers :) think, Jon and Kate are going to do their show for as long as they want (or as they stated, till someone in their family doesn't want to do it). It's their lives, their kids, and their decisions.

I applaud them for their success. I also applaud them for going with their instincts and doing what's best for their family. They don't need anybody else's input for that...especially, a bunch of 9most likely jealous)critics and people who don't know them.

Theresa said...

Oops! that wasn't supposed to be a 9, but instead a (

FIONA said...

My main point was that those who cry for advocacy then ignore minors like Jacob Roloff or most of the Duggar kids in that plea are missing a big piece of the puzzle.

----

I absolutley agree with you on this.
-----

One thing you said struck me- I have not seen any of them filmed in a negative way . I have to disagree with you there-- the Sylvan learning center filming does not show Jeremy or Zach in a positive light. They were both shown as zoning off when they should be studying, which to me was dismissive and rude to their teachers. I am also against how they display the kids as being sloppy and inconsiderate.

----

I have to think that Zak and Jeremy had a say in this. Maybe they knew they needed help, but at this age you make choices to do your school work or not...clean your room or not...I think the consequences of not keeping up on your school work was tutoring and they probably got it free from Sylan.

Also, if they are stinky, smelly boys at this age, and KNOW it is going to be talked about on TV, maybe they don't care.

I think there is a big difference in talking about your 7 or 8 year old in ways she may not be able to control.


I don't like how Amy and Matt not to each other either-no better or worse then Jon and Kate. I would not give Kate a pass because of a "dry sense of humor". She has demeaned her husband plenty and there was no humor involved.

And is it worse to be acting that way in front of younger children?

I think both shows have lost there way. I think both have similar issues the family's will deal with with their kids.

I think you like Jon and Kate for different reasons than I like Amy and Matt.

FIONA said...

Actually, the loss of privacy has harmed Jeremy Roloff in at least one major way. His Myspace messages to friends were posted and discussed, and they included some offensive racial language.
----

That wasn't because of the show. It was because his parent's don't monitor his internet use and because he did not have the sense to make his MYSPACE private.

FIONA said...

Theresa,

I agree this is hatred towards the Gosselin's but I think it is much less than the GWOPPER's think.

I think it is a very small percentage.

I don't think God provided them a TV show. Personally, I don't think God would be very happy with a lot of things Jon and Kate do, but that is just my opinion.

Lizabeth said...

Fiona,
You said:
Also, if they are stinky, smelly boys at this age, and KNOW it is going to be talked about on TV, maybe they don't care.

I had to laugh out loud at that comment!! I have 4 brothers and would rarely go in the basement growing up because it always smelled like doritos and smelly socks. Eww :)!!

I agree that we just both have different views on the way Matt and Amy vs. Jon and Kate handle themselves and their relationships. I have a similar sense of humor to Jon and Kate (for example, on Valentines day I sent my boyfriend an ecard that said "If I had a soul, you would be its mate") so I get them more than I do the harsh reality that Matt and Amy present. Relationships are tough, but it seems to me that through time J & K are growing closer while Matt and Amy seem to be growing apart. Just sad to watch anyone go through something like that, especially when you get sort of emotionally invested in the family through the show.

I am glad that we can at least agree on the fact that people need to have their opinions and keep to them. That is one thing I really appreciate about this site, especially now that I get to help moderate. Some of us are passionate about aspects of this show. We are also able to come to an open forum for discussion without walking away feeling worse off because of the debate.

Theresa said...

Fiona, I don't understand what you're saying here...I agree this is hatred towards the Gosselin's but I think it is much less than the GWOPPER's think.

What I was saying was that GWOP is nothing but a hate site. I don't understand what you meant?

And, that's why we can have discussions and disagree on things here. :) I don't think God provided them a TV show. Personally, I don't think God would be very happy with a lot of things Jon and Kate do, but that is just my opinion.

Just wondering what things you think God would not like?

Going back to the "stinky boys" comment...I think that's Kate's dry humor that we were talking about before. There's nothing detrimental in that.

Theresa said...

That wasn't because of the show. It was because his parent's don't monitor his internet use and because he did not have the sense to make his MYSPACE private.

December 26, 2008 12:31 PM


I agree about 75% here Fiona. Parents should definitely monitor their kids' use of the computer and internet. However, there are a lot of crazies out there and no doubt someone in that public arena like Jeremy is, will get googled more and his myspage page hit more.

FIONA said...

Lizabeth,

I agree, I think it does seem like Matt and Amy's relationship is deteriorating. Maybe it is because they have been together so long. He hates the sloppiness and disorganization, and she hates his big-dream plans that he springs on her.

I have seen her look less then careing towards him at times...like when they were in Memphis and he was so sick.

I do think Jon and Kate love each other. There are times when I think their relationship is so toxic and Jon is just a glutton for punushment.

Teresa,

I agree GWOP is a hate site, I just wonder if sites like those are the monority...

I will give you an example of why I think God is not happy with Jon and Kate, but I really don't want to get into a religious debate.

I don't see mutual respect in their relationship. Husband's and wife's should not demean one another.

FIONA said...

I agree about 75% here Fiona. Parents should definitely monitor their kids' use of the computer and internet. However, there are a lot of crazies out there and no doubt someone in that public arena like Jeremy is, will get googled more and his myspage page hit more.

December 26, 2008 1:07 PM

---
If his page would have been set to private, only his friends would have seen the racial comments. And I believe there were some gay bashing remarks as well.

Theresa said...

I see your point about Jeremy keeping his myspage page private.

No, we're not going to get into a religous debate, that's for sure. But, once again, what you see of Jon and Kate's relationship is just a snippet of it. Remember, it's an edited show. We see the good and bad. When people see the "bad" they maginify it and judge it and it becomes to them what it may not, in true reality, be. We can't judge other people's relationships and think the worst is how it is or that they do it all the time.

No, husbands and wives should stick together. And, TLC should show more of the tender moments of J&K, not just when she orders him around.

I highly recommend reading their book. A better understanding of this couple can come of it. It shows why they're in it for the long haul and I believe their words.

I see what you mean about GWOP being a minority.

FIONA said...

I do want to read the book, and my mind has changed and evolved about things with Jon and Kate.

I think Kate went thru an unimaginable experience.

I think she does have a deeply religious background.

I think she has created and manipulated opportunities.

Yes, we see the good and the bad. And I have seen enough bad to have been able to make a decision about Jon and Kate.

FIONA said...

Who said they saw Marley and Me?

We went yesterday and all 3 of us, including the entire theatre were sobbing.

Especailly hit home because we have an old yellow lab!

Bridget said...

Fiona, that was me :) I was actually in pain at the end of the movie. All you could hear in the packed theater was sniffling and people blowing their noses.

I was trying to muffle my sobs and my scarf was soaked at the end. I just love dogs, especially naughty ones :)

Saint said...

Lizabeth said...
Fiona,
You said:
Also, if they are stinky, smelly boys at this age, and KNOW it is going to be talked about on TV, maybe they don't care.

I had to laugh out loud at that comment!! I have 4 brothers and would rarely go in the basement growing up because it always smelled like doritos and smelly socks. Eww :)!!


So you both understand why Santa brought my teen-aged son air freshener, right? LOL

Lizabeth said...

Fiona, I assure you that reading the book would change your opinion even further. It was really honest-- Kate admitted her faults openly, spoke on just how rough the pregnancy with the tups was, and through the whole thing showed strength and flexibility.

Saint, that is too funny!!

Oh, and Fiona (again lol) I also got a laptop for Christmas! My parents knew I needed one for grad school so I've had fun downloading programs and transferring files (like my entire iTunes library) onto the new lappy :). Gotta love being totally surprised for once on Christmas!!

Que said...

Not to get side tracked from the LPBW debate, but I would just like to point out that Clarrisa, the American Girl doll of the year, is going to be a victim of bullying. AG decided on this subject based on "letters sent to AG by young girls asking for guidance on how to handle bullying situations in their own lives."

I know it's impossible to know what the future holds for the Gosselin children, and this shows that even if the Gosselins' weren't on tv chances are they might still be a victim of bullying. However, the show does shine a spotlight on some very unflattering aspects of the kids lives, and gives the kids who are prone to bully other children even more ammunition to use against the Gosselin children. I hope when the kids are older, they will have more positive experiences from the show then negative.

Veronica said...

Right on Que and we know that Cara and Mady are fans of American Girl. Maybe they might get this new doll.

Nina Bell said...

Manda,

I would be happy to answer any questions you have. Why don't you email me at ninabell53@gmail.com. Also if would be great if you signed up for a google account and joined in on a real discussion on the blog with the rest of us instead of posting random questions with random screen names.

BEE said...

Has anyone noticed that the Roloffs are producers of their show but Jon and Kate are not. Does this mean that the Roloffs have more say as to what is shown and what is edited out?