Wednesday, December 10, 2008

Pain Breeds Bitterness


Submitted for post by Saint.

I have been a defender of Aunt Jodi's sister Julie for over three months now. I completely understood her desire to shame Kate Gosselin in public for the disrespect she showed Aunt Jodi during the "Gumgate" episode. I don't really want to rehash those reasons, though I do still think that way. I want to raise another issue about Julie: her comments on GWOP.

One thing I like about Julie's blog is the ban on comments. It keeps the blog from degrading into the anti-Kate hate fest we see at GWOP. It is where Julie should present her "anti-exploitation" side of the Gosselin story, if she has something valuable to add. She should not be commenting at GWOP.

In the "Kate's next Opus" thread at GWOP, under Julie's blogger ID, Truth Will Set You Free, is a sinister comment implying that the Gosselin children are targets of pedophiles. 'Truth' says that an unnamed, "Someone who tracks this kind of thing and is an expert on this subject matter," suggested that the Gosselins will have to flee the country because Kate's book has pictures of the children. Why is Julie writing there? Why hasn't she posted something useful (and properly cited) on her own blog if there really is a concern this serious? Do Jodi and Julie read the recaps, the future fantasies, or the comments at GWOP? Does Julie realize what she is associated with?

GWOP is a blog that daily exposes the Gosselin children to scorn. The recaps, posts, and comments not only mock Jon and Kate, but frequently take swipes at the children as well. All the Gosselins, but particularly Hannah, Joel, and Mady are mocked, laughed at, criticized, and diagnosed with disorders and dysfunction. No comments criticizing Sharla's or Three Farmer's tender feelings will get through, but comments deriding children are common. Does Julie really care about those children? Or is this just a case of pain breeding bitterness?

83 comments:

Lizabeth said...

Saint, thank you for this post! From all I have read it seems like Julie really did begin with good intentions then everything snowballed out of control. The power/control of information got to her head especially after Jodi 'condoning' the blog by allowing a video of her vouching for Julie to be posted. Now that her site took a turn towards advocacy instead of telling her story (er... Jodi's story that Julie knows second hand at best, as well as things Jodi reported which the crew told her which is third hand knowledge...)it seems like she has realized the damage that was done.

The pedophile comments were crossing the line definitely, since whatever she is saying will happen to Jon and Kate's kids could also happen to Jodi's children who were seen in varying states of undress on the show as well. People need to be careful what they 'wish' for... I think if Julie really did care about the Gosselin kids then she would work harder at bridging the gap between Kate and Jodi. Bringing the family together would help more than posting further snarky and incendiary comments on GWoP.

Elizabeth said...

After a while, I think Julie got too concerned with what GWoP wanted from her and started dishing way too much. Her new group of "friends" gave her and Jodi the release they wanted, and the validation they wanted. Everything spiraled, because with each thing she told, I'm sure it dug the hole deeper for Jodi and Kevin and Jon and Kate.

Julie seems to have gotten like everyone else on that site: using child advocacy to have an excuse to top each other with crazy comments about potential stalkers and pedophiles when they themselves are the ones chomping at the bit for every piece of new information on the Gosselins.

I like to think Julie started out with good intentions, but I think her connections with such hateful people, and even at points defending making fun of the children she wants to advocate for, she has done more harm then good.

SamanthaNC said...

I completely agre Ladies. I do think Julie started out with good intentions no matter how misguided. But her association with GWOP leaves me at a loss for words. I can't imagine why she feels she has the right to make these conclusions. No matter whats gone on between Kevin and Kate, those children are his flesh and blood and he should be furious with Juile- she's taking it wayyyy too far. There is such a mob mentality over there, it's like any ounce of sanity or reasoning flies out the window after a little time spent cavorting with the other crazies. Ugh.

mkb77 said...

I never quite understood what the reasoning was behind Julie's ranting and ravings on a public blog. What did she hope to accomplish? She whipped up a bunch of torch bearing villagers who are out for revenge and they show it on the GWOP board with their mean spirited postings.

Family issues should never be spread across the internet. If Julie felt it necessary to write her feelings of anger out, she should have done it in the privacy of her own home/computer.

All I have to say is, you reap what you sow.

Saint said...

Lizabeth,
I agree with you. The pedophile comments were crossing the line.

Tyra said...

Thanks for this post, Saint. I have a big problem with Julie's postings on GWoP. When I saw her blogger id there the other day, I was disgusted.

When she first popped up online, I watched her use her 'inside' knowledge to gain personal power for herself, often dropping hints about knowing a lot more than she was revealing. She had observed things from a position of trust, as a member of the extended family, like knowledge about Kate's relationship with her father. Julie defended herself and said that she kept a lot to herself. BS! All the hinting she did added speculative fuel to the fire, and got her special GWoP status.

Then, she lent some of her online credibility to PM, like they were both part of the exclusive club: 'Those who know the truth about Kate'. And has said nothing about the fraud PM turned out to be. It made me decide that 'truth' must have been just a hollow motto for Julie, based on her actions.

Saint said...

There is something I didn't write above that really bothers me about Julie. She mistakenly threw her support behind the blogger who invented the Penn Mommy* Stories. I think Julie was as fooled by this corrupt CA blogger, just like many others. There is nothing wrong with being the victim of a nutty, ill-intentioned, attentioned-staved woman who is a serial liar, defrauder, and corrupt citizen. There IS something wrong with NOT ACKNOWLEDGING IT. Julie has her own blog to address the lies the fictional Penn Mommy made up about the Gosselin family. She should do so. She should have (and still can) issue a statement basically saying that she doesn't know who the woman who invented Penn Mommy is, never met her, doesn't believe her, and is sorry for misleading others into thinking she was truthful. Julie doesn't just owe that to those who offered her support. She owes it to the Gosselins.

There are people I don't care for in the world, including the woman who invented Penn Mommy. I wouldn't repeat lies about them though. And if I mistakenly did so, I would RETRACT what I said. I hold Julie to the same standard.

That crazy CA blogger didn't just lie about herself and Kate Gosselin. She made up stories about individual children such as Mady, Cara, and Alexis. She invented detailed stories about how their mother was ungenerous to others and to the children themselves. That blogger hurt those kids, real kids, who Julie knows and cares about, who Jodi loves as an aunt. Julie needs to disown her. Publicly.

*disclaimer: I apologize for writing anything about PM. We all know she obsessively reads anything she can about her TV shows and will probably be "over-the-moon" about getting another mention on GDNNOP. Pathetic.

Kikibee said...

Julie may have started out just wanting to defend her sister (and I have my doubts about that), but she left that behind long ago.

Someone on another thread suggested she may have been jealous of the relationship between Jodi and Kate. I think this may be a part of it. Also, I think she was living vicariously through Jodi (being on tv and having everyone think you're wonderful, going on the Oprah show). And then mean ole Kate took that away, and she's getting back at her. ( And I think she's peeved that she herself didn't get to meet Oprah.)

And now ,like so many of the GWoPpers, she pretends to be morally superior, just caring about the children. She's not helping them one bit.

merryway said...

Hi Saint, I've already commented about Julie on another thread and I have been ranting a lot these last couple of days. I did want to tell you I enjoyed your thoughtful post, as always.

FIONA said...

I don't think Julie had any right divulging things her sister told her about the G's on the internet...on Facebook, a blog, anywhere.

Julie did not just attempt to *hurt* Kate, she wanted to take her down.

There are 2 sides to every story but poor Jodi never once has told her side.

Julie took heresay information to hurt Kate and make Jodi look better.

Honestly, we don't know that Jodi is not some flaky kook! For all we know she did more then just give 3 year old sextuplets gum. There could have been many more incidents that we did not see and that Julie didn't tell us about.

Jodi is not trustworthy and is a wuss. Julie is bitter and jealous and has loved the attention.

Linda said...

Saint,

What an excellent post.

I've often thought that another more appropriate name for Julie's blog might be ...

"Hatred Breeds Bias"

I could understand Julie's desire to defend her sister. I can't understand taking it to the internet for the general public's consumption.

On the one hand, she is so concerned about the exploitation of these kids but one could easily argue that she is actively participating and encouraging the exploitation by drawing more attention to the show.

But the biggest indicator of her out and out hypocrisy is the fact that she actually admitted on the PM blog that she sees nothing wrong with posters calling the children names or making fun of them.

She called it humor, taken out of context, and sarcasm.

Disgusting.

FIONA said...

And that whole video from Jodi, "her blog is true"

What was that anyway-she didn't even have the courage to speak up for herself then!

BuckeyeMomof5 said...

Okay, I know everyone will jump all over me...but I just have to comment on two things.

First, why is Julie automatically wrong for posting on GWoP or anywhere else? Doesn't she have just as much of a right to say whatever she wants as the rest of us? Also, who says she agrees with everything they say on that blog. Do each of you agree with everything that's said over here? Are you responsible for the other posters and their viewpoints? I doubt she would EVER come here to say anything given what has been said about her time and time again here.

Second, my feeling about her is that there are many, MANY things she could say about the Gosselins and still she chooses not to reveal that knowledge. IMO, she has showed great restraint in her comments. Why does she 'owe the Gosselins' anything? Obviously there is much more at play between them and Jodi/Kevin and the rest of the family than we are ever going to know about. Why do people here assume the G's are innocent in all of this and that everyone else is wrong? I believe J+K severed the ties with all of these family members, not the other way around. I also believe that if Julie stepped forward to share what she has then there are real problems involving the kids and what the show is doing to their lives. I believe that's what people should be so concerned about...

Saint said...

But the biggest indicator of her out and out hypocrisy is the fact that she actually admitted on the PM blog that she sees nothing wrong with posters calling the children names or making fun of them.

At the time, I was new to Gosselin-drama, and was still trying to figure out who everyone was. I read PM's blog mostly (THE LIAR!) I just didn't read that much GWOP.

I remember an exchange where Julie defended snarky comments, and I thought without seeing the comments, that Julie was probably right and the other person (Guin? Linda?) was just exaggerating. Wrong! It was only recently that I have read through GWOP posts/coments from that time and before that time. OMG! I cannot believe Julie actually associates with those people. They are AWFUL.

I researched that secret message board thing (no, it has nothing to do with Lonneyswife, I don't think.) There is information somewhere in the archives here at this blog. I have to say, I was really shocked at the information available. It's enough that Julie should have just walked away from GWOP and never looked back. They are not an advocacy site (as Sharla has pointed out...furthest thing from her mind, I believe.) The shame is, I don't think posters over there realize what that blog started as, who is involved with it, and how far they go on the private boards. But Julie should know by now what they are. I do, and I have no inside access.

I wish posters over there would do a little research before continuing.

And I sure wish posters over there who were fooled by the Penn Mommy Liar, but had nothing to do with it, you know, like Three Farmers, or Lonneyswife, would ask Sharla to address it. It's like they have no pride in themselves, to me. They don't care that Sharla and her friend Possummomma made that bunch look like asses. They just keep posting...you can sell them the Brooklyn Bridge, but that's OK, as long as you make fun of Hannah every Tuesday morning. It's so sad.

It all makes Aunt Jodi look so bad. If I did that to my sister (I mean the PM mistake and the GWOP-love) I'd apologize and disassociate, you know, for my sister.

FIONA said...

Second, my feeling about her is that there are many, MANY things she could say about the Gosselins and still she chooses not to reveal that knowledge

----

See, I think there are things about Jodi and Kevin that Jon and Kate could divulge, but have chosen not to. Much like the reason we don't see family on the show....they obviously have their reasons, whatever they may be.

However, Jon and Kate don't blog about what a mean Dad she has, that Jodi is anorexic and purges while the kids are in her care....

We don't know the other side...is my point.

And Julie would never come over here because she is a coward and couldn't engage in an intelligent conversation.

Mom said...

Buckeyemomof5 -

Personally, I feel what Julie has said on GWP's blog about the kids is wrong, and some points were very cruel and uncalled for - especially if the person she actually has issues with is Kate.

Julie has her own blog. I find it interesting that she doesn't use her own blog for the snippy comments.

I also don't think she is a "Gosselin expert" because her sister is married to Kate's brother. I hardly know my sister-in-law's family at all and my brother has been married to her (SIL) for 30+ years.

Saint -

You know I agree with you whole-heartedly about the whole PM thing. Julie vouched for her, and everyone jumped on the bandwagon. This blog called her (PM) out and then somehow WE were considered the bad guys. I still remember how several posters over at the shrew site maligned me because of my association with this blog. But, then magically, everything about PM disappeared from Shrew, GWP and Julie's site without one little mention of anything.

I hope that everyone's hope is for there to be some reconciliation among the G's and the K's.

Saint said...

BuckeyeMomof5,

I wrote the post.

I defended Julie over writing about Aunt Jodi, so I don't think the G's are innocent. I really believe that Jodi was cut out of that family, and I don't agree with that AT ALL. Even if the adults don't get along, the kids have a right to a relationship with their cousins. It's appalling to me that Jon and Kate can't see Jodi's kids, and vice versa. It's all my opinion based on what I have read and seen, but it's an opinion nevertheless.

I also doubt Julie will come over here and say anything. She has her own blog to do that.

She is free to speak at GWOP if they let her. I criticized her decision to do so. It's shameful because of what GWOP does every week. GWOP posts comment after comment criticizing, mocking, lying about, and laughing at little kids. Kate's kids are still kids. Julie says she cares about them. But I haven't read even once where Julie defended Mady or Cara, or wrote that mocking Hannah was wrong. Why would she want to be associated with them?

You don't see that kind of nastiness towards children on this blog. If such a post got through, there would be comments defending the child and shaming the poster.

I have tried to post comments at GWOP defending Hannah and crticizing the malicious recaps written by Three Farmers. My post didn't go through. At GWOP, you can laugh at kids, but you can't touch Three Farmers with anything but praise. Why would Julie, who cares about her sister's neices write there if she disagrees with the tone and tenor of that blog?

I don't agree with everything written over here. I write, "I disagree..." and my comments go through! There are decent commenters here who do not mock the children but respectfully criticize the show or Jon and Kate.

Tyra said...

Quote:
First, why is Julie automatically wrong for posting on GWoP or anywhere else?

Not jumping all over you, BuckeyeMomof5, just disagreeing strongly. Really strongly.

Julie's not just posting her opinion, she's making use of information that she obtained under a different context. It's a misuse of 'power' - the power that information gives you. Julie obtained information about the Gosselins in the 'real world'. Once she took it to the net, it became fodder, and ammunition for people who have less than pure intentions for the use of it.

Julie tried to use the internet as a court of appeals. There's no such thing. If the people in your real life hurt you, are unjust to you, you confront them directly. If you still don't get satisfaction, well, that's life. It's not always fair.

Kate wasn't fair to Jodi? What's to be done? Take it to the net, complain, hint about darker 'secrets', feed the enmity of people who see nothing wrong with driving by the Gosselin house, taking pictures, following the Gosselins around the virtual world, posting rant after rant to try and shut down their earning potential. For what crime? Being unfair to a relative? If I got on the net and complained about how my aunt Harriet treated me, would I be an internet hero, too?

There's no court of appeals to bring 'bad' mothers to account, either. Whether she makes mistakes or not, whether she rubs viewers the wrong way, whether posters think that all the kids will be 'ruined'. If Julie wants to call CPS with legitimate proof that Kate Gosselin should be stripped of the legal right to rear her own children, then she should do it, but other than that, Julie needs to stop feeding the internet beast mommy that thinks it knows all the secrets of motherhood, and wants to mete out punishment to moms that don't measure up.

Julie has no business setting herself up as a child advocate. She is not a disinterested, objective observer; she has shown that she has personal feelings in the matter of the Gosselins, and likely carries a grudge. How can her contributions do anything but harm the cause of advocating for children on tv reality shows?

FIONA said...

Saint,

I agree with you about Julie not being an advocate. That was one of the things I pushed her and PM about. They both alluded to "much worse"-of course we know that PM was a fraud.

My point is, if in fact there is "much worse" if Jodi did not or would not take action, she is just as guilty. Same with Julie-if she "knows" something....but my feeling is there really doesn't exsist any advocacy at all, from either of them.

And the only support Julie should have given Jodi should have been done privately.

Linda said...

Buckeyemomof5,

I think that she was wrong to post over at GWOP for many reasons. I could have bought that her blog was simply just her "therapy" had she not gone one step further and posted information on GWOP. I think that she likes the attention that the GWOPPERS heap on her.

I don't expect her or anyone to agree with everything posted on a blog. But when the posters start calling children nasty names, I expect people to either say that they object to the name calling or just stop posting there.

She did much worse. She endorsed the name calling. She said that it was for the sake of humor all the while she was posting on her own blog about how awful J&K were for exploiting the kids.

H
Y
P
O
C
R
I
T

mariel said...

From the outset Julie was GWop's credibility card. She took it upon herself to answer many of the questions in the old questions and answers section there. Also in that old Q&A section Serena posted an answer to a question of Julie's authenticity. Serena said, and I quote, "We have met with Julie in person, face to face, and have been able to verify to our complete satisfaction that she most definitely is Jodi's sister. We were skeptical when contact was first made a couple of months ago, but we no longer have any doubts. We also believe that what Jodi has told Julie is the truth."

Julie started communicating with the Gwop mods when they were on TWOP, so she knew what they were about. If you've never read the things said in the TWOP J&K thread, just trust me, it was super nasty and had nothing to do with child advocacy.

If Serena was lying and they didn't meet "face to face" Julie should have cut all ties to that blog. If they did meet, then shame on her for trusting in malicious strangers and giving them that creditibility they were using her to get.

You would think after PM Julie would have realized that she was used and subsequently humiliated by her internet buddies. After all she has a real name and real face to go along with this fiasco while the others get to stay essentially anonymous. But no, she had to give her nugget of inside info when the subject of pedophiles came up to keep the fires burning. Who knows why. IMO there is a lot more to her story than we'll ever know.

Linda said...

BINGO Mariel!

BuckeyeMomof5 said...

As I said from the start, I knew before posting that daring to defend Julie would result in these types of comments. We will all just have to agree to disagree. I feel you are all just as wrong to attack Julie as you say the people at GWoP are wrong to attack J+K.

I can see why people end up staying here to post and why others only post at GWoP. The subject is very polarizing and noone is willing to give on what they think or believe to be true. IMO Julie is a good person and no matter what she does she will be villified here.

mariel said...

wanted to back up what I said about Julie knowing the gwop mods when they were at twop. This is what she said on her blog about it that has since been deleted.

"After I read some of the posts, I saw that although there were some critical comments about Jodi, the majority were criticizing J&K. That's where I heard the term "GumGate"--I actually laughed out loud! As I was reading, I kept wondering who these people were. I was confident that some of them had to know J&K personally, or at least have some sort of "inside" knowledge. I couldn't believe how they could possibly piece everything together, just by watching a 30 minute episode. How did they know so much? How could they see through the charade, and know what was really going on? It was all so fascinating! I posted on there a few times, but didn't say who I was, some may remember "tiredoflies". I was quickly banned because I forgot to put "IMO", and stated something as fact. I decided to just be a lurker and found the whole thing rather entertaining. IMO, it was a lot more entertaining than the show."

After reading the filth at twop she wanted to know who those people were and must have PM'd them. Basically she bonded with these strangers over a mutual hatred for another human being. What a wonderful way to start a friendship.

michelle said...

Why does everyone on this site think that Jodi is commenting on the GWOP site?

I don't read every comment but I don't remember ever seeing a Jodi posting. Jodi has her own site to make comments on, right?

FIONA said...

IMO Julie is a good person and no matter what she does she will be villified here.

December 10, 2008 1:07 PM

---

Then you must think Sharla, 3Farmers, Maggie, etc...are good people too?

You don't know Julie at all-seriously, don't assume she is a good person because you like what someone wrote on the WWW!

roy said...

"[]that Jodi is anorexic and purges while the kids are in her care...."

Come on, seriously? You let this stand as a fact or opinion without anyone commenting that it is at least is a random comment by a poster? How could Fiona know this as a fact? If it is, she should be able to back it up.
I thought the idea was to be fair to the Gosselins and others here.

Tyra said...

Quote:
As I said from the start, I knew before posting that daring to defend Julie would result in these types of comments. We will all just have to agree to disagree. I feel you are all just as wrong to attack Julie as you say the people at GWoP are wrong to attack J+K.

I think you're assigning an opinion to all of the posters here that is not accurate, as well as being a generalization. I personally don't have a problem with people criticizing J&K. I might argue with some of it, depending on what it is, but that's very, very different from taking the stance that J&K shouldn't be criticized. I've never seen that opinion supported here.

IMO Julie is a good person and no matter what she does she will be villified here.

I have no idea whether Julie would fit my definition of a 'good person' if I met her in real life; I don't know her. I'm offended by the actions she's taken on the net, and that's what I intend to criticize. Anyone who commits a public act will encounter public scrutiny, and usually some criticism.

FIONA said...

"[]that Jodi is anorexic and purges while the kids are in her care...."

Come on, seriously? You let this stand as a fact or opinion without anyone commenting that it is at least is a random comment by a poster? How could Fiona know this as a fact? If it is, she should be able to back it up.
I thought the idea was to be fair to the Gosselins and others here.

December 10, 2008 1:46 PM

--

Roy,

It was meant to be an outrageous comment...not a fact, an example...sorry you didn't get it.

Mom said...

Good people do not condone name calling of children.

Good people apologize when they make a wrong.

Mom said...

Roy -

I'm assuming you pulled that from a thread here? I'm also going to assume that if no one commented on it, it might be because people here tend to ignore comments like these.

I also find it very interesting that you always seem to show up here when the subject of PM, Julie and GWOP is brought up.

I certainly invite your thoughts and insight in the situation and would greatly appreciate if you could elaborate a bit on the comment. Were the first words of that line "I think" or "It is my opinion"?

Just curious. Thank you.

merryway said...

roy said...
"[]that Jodi is anorexic and purges while the kids are in her care...."


Roy,
I just gotta ask, how long has that been burning a hole in your back pocket?

rain88 said...

However, Jon and Kate don't blog about what a mean Dad she has, that Jodi is anorexic and purges while the kids are in her care....

We don't know the other side...is my point.



Fiona, did you make up nasty comments about Jodi to prove your point or do you know that to be true?

rain88 said...

Sorry, I posted before refreshing so I didn't see Roy's comments.

Kikibee said...

michelle,

Julie posts on GWoP as
The Truth Will Set You Free.

Que said...

Can anyone say will 100% accuracy that it was actually Julie who posted that comment? I know that the poster used her name, however how difficult would it be for someone else to use the same name? We haven't heard from Julie in a while, and since she hasn't posted a supporting comment on her blog stating who the respected source is, I'm calling BS that it actually was Julie.

O/T - but I was just wondering if anyone from Bakersfield, CA has visited this blog lately?

indianprincess said...

I'm no means a Julie fan but for some reason she feels she needs to post there to keep her 15 minutes in the spotlight so people won't forget about her. She always post secretive posts like she knows these insider info but doesn't disclose any of it but hints to it. IMO she doesn't have any insider info like the supposed 8000sq house in NC the Gosselin's were supposed to be building which came from her. Whatever floats Julie's boat!

Saint said...

BuckeyeMomof5 responds with:
As I said from the start, I knew before posting that daring to defend Julie would result in these types of comments.

I have defended Julie on this blog! And yes, people disagreed if that's what you mean by "these kinds of comments." Read the first three comments here and see three posters who have a problem with Julie's latest comment assuming she started with good intentions.

And BuckeyeMomof5 also writes:
I feel you are all just as wrong to attack Julie as you say the people at GWoP are wrong to attack J+K.

What do you mean by "you are all?" No, BuckeyeMomof5. We ALL agree that the people at GWoP are wrong to attack J+K's chhildren. That's what WE ALL agree on. Can't you find it in your heart to agree that picking on the kids is wrong, too?

Saint said...

michelle said,
Why does everyone on this site think that Jodi is commenting on the GWOP site?

I don't think Jodi is posting at GWoP so your assumption, that everyone here thinks Jodi is posting at GWoP, is wrong. I bet NO ONE here thinks that. What are you reading anyway?

Florida Mom said...

I have admitted to changing my views about the wackos that take things too far at GWOP. I have stated that Julie did a disservice to Jodi and her family. But how do two wrongs make a right? How does making mean comments about Julie and Jodie help anything. I understand denouncing what they are doing, but why roll in the mud too?
Also, it has been stated repeatedly that we don't know the motives of Jon and Kate on many subjects, that we don't know them, and we shouldn't speculate. How is it okay to speculate about Julie's motives and psyche? I don't understand why she would align herself with hateful people, but to say that she is jealous of an Oprah trip might be a stretch.

Que said...

Basically she bonded with these strangers over a mutual hatred for another human being. What a wonderful way to start a friendship.

Mariel -

That's a pretty harsh comment about someone you don't even know. And for those who has agreed with your comments here, does that mean you are all bonding over your mutual hatred of Julie?

Just because people have the same opinions on a topic doesn't automatically make them friends or mean that they have bonded.

Saint said...

Que said...
Can anyone say will 100% accuracy that it was actually Julie who posted that comment?

The comment was posted under her "Truth Will Set You Free" blogger ID. The only person in the world who can access that account besides Julie, or someone with her permission, is Penn Mommy's crafty middle son William who took time out of his brother's deathbed vigil to install remote keystroke copying/computer hacking software on Possummomma's Bakersfield computer. OK, LOL, about the eloquent and sinister, fictional William Penn(mommy.)

Que, after the PM story broke here, another Gosselin-hate site posted a comment by "Truth" that was not on her blogger ID. It was typed in. No one over here believed she wrote it, and all cautioned everyone not to beleive Julie was as nuts as making the comment required. So you see, Julie has her defenders even among her detractors.

You know what, this site is run by fair people. I suspect the mods here have to delete lots of nutty "inside" information, both supporting and maligning the Gosselins, their friends, their extended family, etc. I've never seen the crazy over here like it is over there. There is just no denying it.

As for that O/T Bakersfield question: I couldn't know if she posts, but you KNOW she's reading!

Saint said...

Que said,
That's a pretty harsh comment about someone you don't even know.

How I wish I'd see that response up at GWoP from time to time. It wouldn't go through.

Mariel, I agree with you. What Serena wrote about Julie sure sounded like bonding. I don't see how anyone can deny that there is hate for Kate over there now. Have you seen the screen names over there? They accept screen name with foul language, and how many people object? Why would anyone want to be in a place where that's acceptable among the mods and posters?

michelle said...

Saint,

What I read is the posts. However, I do not have the time to read all of the posts, which I had already stated.

I have no opinion on Julie, Jodi, or the relationships of the Gosselins with their family. Other than extended family (cousins, aunts and uncles and grandparents) is nice to have for the children. More for the children to love and to be loved.

I was only asking a question as to why it was thought that Julie was posting on the GWOP site. That is all.

mariel said...

Can anyone say will 100% accuracy that it was actually Julie who posted that comment? I know that the poster used her name, however how difficult would it be for someone else to use the same name?

The post is still there under Kates Next Opus about half way down the page. If you click the name The Truth Will Set You Free for the post it takes you to Julie's blogger profile, which is the same one she has been using all along. The video with Jodi used to be there but has since been deleted. Unless someone took over Julie's blog that was her post.

Saint said...

Florida Mom said:
I don't understand why she would align herself with hateful people, but to say that she is jealous of an Oprah trip might be a stretch.

I don't understand why she would align herself with hateful people either. That's the point of my post. I was really annoyed by that sinister comment she made about the Gosselin's having to leave the country because they expose the kids to pedophiles. It's so irresponsible. I didn't want to just let that slide as if it's OK to do that.

jace said...

We can't judge what Julie is like off-net since we don't know her personally. Sometimes, basically nice people will do or say not so nice things depending on the motivation.

All we can judge are her actions and I have to say that they don't impress me one bit in regard to this whole situation. There is not an ounce of class in airing family problems on the internet no matter how mad you are or how much justification you think you have. I understand wanting to defend her sister, but the welfare of the kids should come before anybody's hurt feelings or need to get payback. Or twisted humor opportunities. And then, she claims child advocacy after the fact--face it, Julie's credibility is shot. She cares a lot less about those children than she does in having her say and getting all kinds of attention for it.

The fact that she has associated and apparently continues to associate with a group that behaves so maliciously toward children that she claims to want to protect says volumes about her. And I don't blame anyone for calling her on her hypocrisy.

Saint said...

Michelle,
Sorry about that. I jumped the gun. You typed Jodi, not Julie. I understand that you meant Julie, though, which makes more sense.

michelle said...

I get Julie and Jodi mixed up. I meant to say Julie, when I said Jodi.

I take everything I read, on any site, with a grain of salt.

Que said...

Saint -

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question about if it was Julie or not. I understand what you are saying and believe now it is more likely to be Julie considering it links back to her website, but at the same time, lately I (and my parents) have been receiving emails sent from my own account and I have no clue how that happened.

My post to Mariel wasn't meant to condemn anyone here, especially the moderators. It was just to show how you can be friendly online with someone, agree with their point of view, and still not bond or become "instant" friends over the internet.

However, if Julie did bond with Serena, and Serena is no longer there... I'm still back to the slight possibility that it wasn't Julie who posted the comment. Julie was all over Paul Peterson's comments, posting them on her site. If she has a credible source, I don't know why she wouldn't list it on her own site.

mariel said...

Que,

If you read through the twop J&K thread you might understand what I meant. It was so bad that it was one of the few threads twop had to lock down for good and twop isn't a very nice place to begin with. Julie said herself she contacted these people after being amused by their comments criticizing Jon and Kate. So yeah, that was the basis for their internet friendship. Maybe hatred was a strong word but I can't think of another to describe the things that have been said about Kate, Jon, and the kids both at gwop and twop that Julie found amusing and acceptable that would better describe it.

For the record I don't hate Julie and didn't say anything to indicate that. I just made an observation and stated an opinion based on the facts in front of me. I already stated that we don't know the whole story. I don't presume to know all about her and her motives and I haven't called her any names.

Que said...

Ooops Mariel, I think it was you who pointed out how the post linked back to Julie. So I thank you as well!

Barbara said...

I think the anger at Julie is completely warranted. She started her blog and teased with bits of information. Most important, she chose to "speak" for Jodi, as though Jodi could not speak for herself. She just had to get that information out there and her bitterness is obvious. Now any information about Jodi has been taken down from her blog and yet Julie is still posting at the most hate filled blog out there. The pedophile statement is so out of line I just have no words. And yet, the posters at GWOP continue to believe that any word out of Julie's mouth is the gospel truth. Unbelievable. All these people "advocating" for children who need no advocating. They are doing just fine and these people need to GET A LIFE.

Florida Mom said...

Saint,
I was not saying it wasn't "OK" to denounce the things Julie says. I am sure she has crossed the line. I think most people on this site started out giving her the benefit of the doubt. I agree she should have acknowledged the Penn Mommy fiasco.
When Fiona said that Jodi is untrustworthy and a wuss, etc.--I guess I just don't understand. But, I don't have to.
Just as we don't know how much Julie really knows about her sister's sister-in-law's family, we don't know how much control Jodi has over what Julie does. Jodi in hindsight, might wish she had never said anything about Kate's family to Julie. I don't know that she could have envisioned this scenario.
I guess I am a gossip and untrustworthy, too, because I confide everything to my sister. It is nice to have someone to vent to on occasion, because usually your husbands don't want to talk about goofy family stuff. Of course, my sister's blog about my husband's crazy family will be coming out soon. Be sure to catch it.
In conclusion, YES Julie went too far.

Linda said...

Barbara,

I can't help but ask ... what has changed your mind about GWOP? You used to post their quite frequently and now it seems that you've changed your opinion of that site?

Mary said...

Well, for those who don't know why J & K don't address Jodi/Kate's brother, how should they do this? Should they sit on the sofa and say they are angry at them and are currently feuding revealing personal family business on cable? Do you want them to write about it on their website? I think this is not our business. We didn't sign up to watch the Jon & Kate Plus 8 and Everyone Else show. Do we really have a right to this information and would this even be much of a question if Julie had not started that blog and stirred the pot as well as got into the mud and muck with really undesirable people?

It makes me wonder when I see comments about how we should know the truth. Perhaps it isn't our business and the person who made it public business did so out of spite and anger. In my world, this just doesn't make it a legitimate issue for viewers to demand a response to.

As someone else said here (a few people commented in the same way), if you are bored with the show or very angry about the show, there is a choice not to watch. I watch the show but I am not obsessed with it. I enjoy watching the little ones growing up and interested in seeing how Mady and Cara are handling being the siblings of 6. I do think the Gosselins will end this over the next season or two. The kids are older, not as cute as infants or toddlers. They are a sweet bunch of children who will soon be in kindergarten and getting on with their childhood lives. My favorite parts of this show are when the 6 little ones converse or have moments of sharing and caring for each other.

I hope that all will be well for all of them as time goes on. No matter what I think of the parents or this spotlight, those children have made me smile so many times. As a mom to twins it has also been an interesting thing to get to see into the world of a family that has multiple multiples!

Barbara said...

Linda, you are right, I did previously post at GWOP. I do not post there any more because most of the posters there are so filled with hatred and bitterness toward J&K that even if they do something right it is considered wrong. It's like a herd mentality. If you dare say anything nice about them or if you enjoyed something about an episode you are pounced on immediately and are made to feel as though you are evil for seeing something good in them. They love to attack. I agree that Kate has some major issues and she makes me nuts sometimes. But I do NOT think she is Satan personified and I am so sick and tired of hearing them talk about being an advocate for the children, tired of them making money off the backs of their children, etc. There is one particular poster who claims she only watches the show so that she can watch for ways she can report them for abuse and to make sure she knows who sponsors them so she can complain to those companies. Others admit they don't or haven't watched but only blog to complain. I just don't understand how people can be like that. If you are not watching but depending on other people to tell you what was on, you are NOT offering your opinion of that show. After the pennmommy debacle there was a small group who broke off and formed their own blog and I'm not going to say who or anything else about that other than to say several of those people are the most mean-spirited of the group.

aap said...

Mary -

Well, for those who don't know why J & K don't address Jodi/Kate's brother, how should they do this? Should they sit on the sofa and say they are angry at them and are currently feuding revealing personal family business on cable?

Isn't this how they handled all of the questions regarding their parents? They came up with a statement, sat on their couch and told the viewing public that the kids grandparents are not a part of their lives.

Was it our right to know this? Was that any of our business? The grandparents never even appeared on the show so why do you think they did this?

If Jon and Kate want privacy, they need to stop living their lives in public. Then most people won't wonder about them at all.

Guinevere said...

If there is any good reason for Julie's coy "I know something you don't know" posts, I can't think of what it could be. She's not protecting or respecting anyone's privacy with her dark hints of sinister goings-on behind the scenes. I never thought her motives were particularly pure to start with, but she's just gotter lower and lower in my estimation as her participation in GWoP has gone on.

I think Julie refused to acknowledge her mistake about PM because she doesn't like to admit she's wrong. That's just a guess, based on my unscientific observation that she has a lot of traits in common with Kate.

Okay, I know everyone will jump all over me...but I just have to comment on two things.

You know, I don't think that's a fair way to begin a post. I think other posters deserve to be treated with respect, which includes not assuming ahead of time that they will "jump all over" you. Furthermore, I think people say things like this so that when anyone disagrees with them, they can say, "See, I knew you were going to jump all over me."

First, why is Julie automatically wrong for posting on GWoP or anywhere else? Doesn't she have just as much of a right to say whatever she wants as the rest of us? Also, who says she agrees with everything they say on that blog. Do each of you agree with everything that's said over here? Are you responsible for the other posters and their viewpoints? I doubt she would EVER come here to say anything given what has been said about her time and time again here.

1) Julie has a right to post anywhere she wants to; if she puts it out in public, people have a right to comment on it and judge her for it. Kind of the way we have the right to judge J&K for putting what they do on TV. 2) I don't assume that Julie agrees with everything that's said at GWoP, though it's been pointed out that she was given the chance to disavow the mean comments about the kids, and she chose not to. I don't agree with everything that's posted here, but of course we allow a much greater range of opinions than GWoP does. I think it comes down to how offensive a site is before one can be judged for participating there - I think GWoP is offensive enough that people who choose to participate there regularly are opening themselves up to judgment and criticism. We're judged by the company we keep - why would Julie want to keep company with such hateful women?

Julie is welcome to post here; if she were to treat me with respect I would do the same for her. She did not show me any respect on PM's site - in fact IIRC she explicitly stated that she had no respect for me - and PM subsequently decided that I was just too awful to be allowed to post there. I am open to trying to understand her POV, but on the face of it I think much of her behavior has been pretty indefensible.

Second, my feeling about her is that there are many, MANY things she could say about the Gosselins and still she chooses not to reveal that knowledge. IMO, she has showed great restraint in her comments. Why does she 'owe the Gosselins' anything?

Is this feeling based on anything, other than perhaps Julie's coy hints of all of her insider knowledge? I think she's pretty much scraped the bottom of the gossip barrel; if there were more to tell I think we would've heard about it.

I don't think she owes the Gosselins anything. I think it was tacky of her to snark on certain details of their lives she learned while a guest at their home, but that's not so much a case of "owing" the Gosselins, but basic manners.

Obviously there is much more at play between them and Jodi/Kevin and the rest of the family than we are ever going to know about. Why do people here assume the G's are innocent in all of this and that everyone else is wrong?

Why do you assume that everyone (or anyone) here believes that? I, for one, have said many times that I think there's probably blame on both sides of the split between Kevin and Jodi and Kate and Jon. I think it's the haters that insist that EVERYTHING is J&K's fault, not us who claim that nothing is.

I believe J+K severed the ties with all of these family members, not the other way around. I also believe that if Julie stepped forward to share what she has then there are real problems involving the kids and what the show is doing to their lives. I believe that's what people should be so concerned about...

Well, you seem to believe a lot of things that aren't necessarily based on any facts, but just your feelings (at least as far as I can tell). You can be concerned about what you want to be concerned about, and let others worry about what concerns us...

As I said from the start, I knew before posting that daring to defend Julie would result in these types of comments.

Yes, in stating your opinion you are running the risk that people will disagree with you. However, I think you'll find that if you state your opinion without defensiveness, and perhaps with some facts to back it up, rather than just feelings, you'll get a better result.

We will all just have to agree to disagree. I feel you are all just as wrong to attack Julie as you say the people at GWoP are wrong to attack J+K.

I don't think I attack Julie; I criticize her. I don't have an issue with people criticizing J&K. It's the length, breadth, depth and unfairness of the criticism I take issue with.

I can see why people end up staying here to post and why others only post at GWoP. The subject is very polarizing and noone is willing to give on what they think or believe to be true. IMO Julie is a good person and no matter what she does she will be villified here.

I think many people who post here have found that there comments are not posted at GWoP, so it's not really a fair comparison. I would like to think that I'm willing to hear opposing viewpoints. Honestly, the problem I encounter is that many of the opposing viewpoints just are not very substantial or expressed very intelligently. I mean, I can engage in a substantive discussion about why the show should not even be on the air, and understand and respect the positions of people who feel that that is the case, even if I don't entirely agree with them. There is no substantive or intelligent discussion to be had about whether or not Kate is a bitch with bad hair, or this kid is fat or that kid is a brat or Jon is a eunuch. These are school-yard insults and they can't be argued rationally.

I only know Julie in one context, in which I don't think she's shown her best side. Calling someone a "good person" - that's a pretty big umbrella. I certainly would not be surprised to find that she has many fine qualities, people who care about her, etc. She's also flawed, but that doesn't make her any different from the rest of us.

Also, it has been stated repeatedly that we don't know the motives of Jon and Kate on many subjects, that we don't know them, and we shouldn't speculate. How is it okay to speculate about Julie's motives and psyche?

Just speaking for myself, I don't think I've ever said that we shouldn't speculate on J&K's motives. I'm all for speculating! I'm put off by relentless unfair, unkind and outrageous speculation, but plain old-garden variety speculation is fine with me; I think it's a pretty integral aspect of this blog.

I don't think I treat Julie any different than I do Kate in terms of speculating about her motives.

ITA with jace's comment on 12/10 at 3:20 p.m.; you state my feelings exactly (without rambling on as I tend to!).

Florida Mom said...

Guinevere,
When I first started reading this blog, your posts would make me mad. I remember thinking that you were awful about PM. Again, I apologize. I now really enjoy your posts, because they always make me think. Your opinions are varied and well stated. Your are not just repeating one opinion. I bet if you weren't, you could have been the star on any debate team.
Anyway, (I don't know how to bold text)--your response to me saying we shouldn't speculate--that you love to speculate!--was great. Thanks for funny, honest discussion. And thanks for opening these naive eyes on more than one occasion.

Saint said...

Guinevere, Florida Mom,
Can I second what Fla Mom said above? Well said!

LInda said...

Thanks Barbara for sharing your perspective.

nomoredrama said...

Uhgghhhh...this is one of my hot button topics. There is nothing honorable about the way Julie approached this situation. It had, IMO, everything to do with bitterness from the beginning.

Hence why she "waited" to blog. She wanted to know exactly what was going to happen. If Jodi signed a contract, rest assured, there would be no blog. There is no way that anyone can convince me that this wasn't about revenge.

That's not to say Jodi was after money. I think Jodi was a loving aunt. I don't know all of the details behind her departure from the show but I am glad she pulled the plug on her sister's gossip machine.

I think Julie refused to acknowledge her mistake about PM because she doesn't like to admit she's wrong. That's just a guess, based on my unscientific observation that she has a lot of traits in common with Kate.

I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head here. If there are 2 things Julie hates it is 1. the Gosselins and 2. this blog. There is no way on earth she would give credence to anything written here. No way she'd admit she was wrong nor admit her true motives.

If this was about advocating for the Gosselin kids, there are so many other avenues she could have gone down. She opted to take the low road and because she gets a hero's welcome at GWoP, she's actually managed to convince herself that what she is doing is ok.

I could seriously go on and on about this topic. The fact that this woman can even stomach reading the posts at GwoP (and then have the nerve to defend them!!!!) says a lot about her character.

jace said...

I'd like to third the comments about Guin's posts. Top notch. :)

FIONA said...

I think Julie refused to acknowledge her mistake about PM because she doesn't like to admit she's wrong. That's just a guess, based on my unscientific observation that she has a lot of traits in common with Kate.
----

She actually did say they were alot alike. Interesting...do you suppose she "abuses" her kids too?

Kikibee said...

If Julie really cared about the kids she could post pertinent information on her own site, and not link it to GWoP. Posting that their situation is so "dire" that they should leave the country, on the same site where people talk about Kate's butt, Jon't balls, and "Cara is a wuss", completely trivializes it.

If she is so concerned about them,
why can't she say that she doesn't feel comfortable with people making fun of them and imagining
all sorts of dark futures for them?

Julie is not some stranger talking about them on the internet. She has met these kids and been a guest in their home. Jodi and her family love them. These are young innocent children who have not hurt anyone. Yet,even though she professes to be concerned for them,
she thinks it's fine to trash them.

Anya said...

NMD said...She opted to take the low road and because she gets a hero's welcome at GWoP, she's actually managed to convince herself that what she is doing is ok.

I too could go on and on about this subject, but NMD summarizes my feelings above.

NMD, your new avatar makes me chuckle....

FIONA said...

Kikibee,

If Julie really cared about the kids she could post pertinent information on her own site, and not link it to GWoP. Posting that their situation is so "dire" that they should leave the country, on the same site where people talk about Kate's butt, Jon't balls, and "Cara is a wuss", completely trivializes it.

_

I think Julie gets off on the attention that has been given to her. Julie is not an advocate, she is a gossip.

Guinevere said...

Aw, FloridaMom, Saint, Jace, you are too kind. You made my day!

Nancy said...

"I think Julie refused to acknowledge her mistake about PM because she doesn't like to admit she's wrong."

There may be some truth in this. I would also have liked to have seen a mention of the "PM mistake" on GWoP, but I doubt if that will ever happen.

Something I do know about PM.... under a totally different screen name, she has claimed to know DUGGAR secrets. Beware of anyone saying they have "inside info" on anyone... it could be PM with yet another identity, LOL! I doubt if she has gone into retirement. I bet she's got a new string of aliases and will show up again soon.

Saint said...

Something I do know about PM.... under a totally different screen name, she has claimed to know DUGGAR secrets.

Yes, yes, she has soooo many insider secrets...Gosselin volunteers and neighbors and friends whose kids go to Cara's and Mady's school, and friends who escorted the Duggars around Disney, and a friend who works on Oprah, and she even claims to write for the TV program House. She knows another person (relationship changes) who was duped by Sylvia Browne, and she's of course raising that famous child champion of the atheist blog world "P1." She accomplishes quite a bit from her lonely isolation in that Bakersfield home. And you're right, she's probably still out there, spinning tales of illness, internet stalking, and brushes with celebrity. She's just not someone that Aunt Jodi's sister, Julie, should have vouched for or protected by her silence.

Theresa said...

I think Julie shouldn't have aired her family's laundry on the internet. Whether it was true or not. She chose a public forum. That is what I have a problem with. She should've kept quiet if Jodi did say something to her. Confidentiality goes a long way.

I equate Julie's postings to that of people posting personal information on their myspace page. You just don't do that! Who knows who's going to see any questionable material (in terms that could get you fired, etc. Too personal material can cost you a job).

Anya said...

Nancy said... Beware of anyone saying they have "inside info" on anyone... it could be PM with yet another identity, LOL! I doubt if she has gone into retirement. I bet she's got a new string of aliases and will show up again soon.

Truer words have never been spoken. I think many of us learned valuable lessons from PM's shenanigans. That's one good thing that came out that mess.

Interestingly enough, there appear to be many people on the main Gosselin hate site who haven't learned a thing. Gullible or desperate to believe their own b.s. You be the judge...

Saint, your post made me laugh, but you put things in context (as usual). Our friend from Bakersfield is really a very sad case...

merryway said...

I think I remember Nina saying something about an insider on DWOP in regards to PM some time ago. I don't read DWOP, but the PM saga was unreal. I don't have time to read it to figure out who she might be.
How brazen to keep going with another ruse. In regards to Julie, it's a possibility that PM might have something on Julie that's keeping her quiet on the subject. Julie seems to buddy with people on the inet without a lot of reservation. Maybe she sent PM some info she regrets and want to let it be.

Guinevere said...

Something I do know about PM.... under a totally different screen name, she has claimed to know DUGGAR secrets. Beware of anyone saying they have "inside info" on anyone... it could be PM with yet another identity, LOL! I doubt if she has gone into retirement. I bet she's got a new string of aliases and will show up again soon.

Ugh, this really bothers me. I know she's not wrapped too tight, but there is a maliciousness and malevolence in her actions that I find disturbing and even angering. When the PM stuff went down I had to really look at my motives and make sure I wasn't doing anything out of a desire to "bring her down" - I think that kind of thinking is too close to the way some people think about the Gosselins. It's not my responsibility to make sure she gets hers and pays for the harm she's caused (and is probably continuing to cause) by lying to people all over the internet. I think the inside of her mind is probably not a very happy place to be, so she's probably suffering anyway. But when her fabrications are shoved in my face I find myself feeling a little ill. She's sick, but she's also mean and ugly, and her behavior does hurt people.

Nina Bell said...

Merryway

I don't think it was me but I am not sure. I really know nothing about DWoP and have only looked at that site once.

Saint said...

In regards to Julie, it's a possibility that PM might have something on Julie that's keeping her quiet on the subject.

Even if PM knows something about Julie, I don't think that Julie needs to worry about PM as much as PM needs to worry herself.

PM is the person with the most to hide. PM spread false stories in an attempt to harm the Gosselins financially. PM is the one who sockpuppeted support for herself to get money from the unsuspecting skeptics. Something in that sounds illegal to me.

merryway said...

Nina, I can't find where I thought I read that, it was a couple of months ago with all the Berlzebub blog talk.
Sorry, if it wasn't you. I remember reading back then that PM was already suspect on the Duggar blog.

Nina Bell said...

Ok Merryway

I have to ask what is up with your avatar? LOL

merryway said...

I have a campy bathroom with movie posters, etc. The singing jaws fish on the wall has a Santa hat. My little one took some pics and that was on there. She liked it, I liked it, so I stuck it on there for the holidays.

Anya said...

Merryway, I noticed your avatar too. Thanks for the back story.

Very unique, and, of course, completely unique...

Anya said...

Meant to say completely adorable!

merryway said...

Thanks, She loves my camera and always wants to use it. I thought about getting her one of the Vtech or FP camera for kids. Five just seems too young to have your own camera. This was one of about six of the shark. BTW, the rest of my bathroom is a bit more nostalgic. I