Tuesday, December 9, 2008

OPEN DISCUSSION

Please feel free to discuss anything off topic here. Thank you.

148 comments:

Nina Bell said...

Many times we are not able to respond to comments because we all work full time jobs and might not have access to a computer at the time. I really have no problem with posts becoming off topic and do not want to discourage people from discussing things because they are worried about being off topic. Please feel free to use this post for whatever you would like to discuss.

Thanks

FIONA said...

I think this would be a good place to discuss any GWoP posts that you find need another POV.

Such as the latest recap from the farmer, or the tups turn 50.

I think to write personal things about the kids, be it in jest or snark is just wrong!

I can't help but believe that some if not all of the kids will find these blogs and read the things that were written about them, in the name of their advocacy!

I think GWOP thinks they are the voice of the majority, but I don't think that is at all true.

Most of JK8 viewers have no idea about these blogs, IMO. And it is still the top rated show on TLC!

T-bag said...

I think you're right Fiona,
GWOP is not a majority at all. If you read the comments, half of them are second-time commentors. It's not like there are 200 new comments from new converts every day. They seriously think their blog is going to cancel the show. Listen up people, RATINGS cancel shows. The highest rated television show on TLC is not going to be cancelled because 200 people on a blog dislike it. And if they're so "open to discussion", then why are comments that are at all positive not thrown in?

I could go on and on...

Tyra said...

Quote:
I can't help but believe that some if not all of the kids will find these blogs and read the things that were written about them, in the name of their advocacy!

I agree that is a concern, but I hope that the kids grow up to be confident and well-adjusted and are able to see all of that junk for what it is: as a reflection of the limitations of the people who post mean-spirited things and call it 'snark'.

indianprincess said...

When I read these posts from people on GWOP months ago I used to get really angry and it wasn't the fact I wanted to stick up for Jon and kate because I really don't know them. My anger was how grown women could bash a family they truely don't know. Now my view is I feel sorry for these people. GWOP is like the childhood bullies on the playground and they have no clue because they are blinded by their inner struggles for entitlement so they attack anything or anyone who they think doesn't deserve what they don't have. They say it's not jealousy but most of the posts sure sound like it. The regulars on GWOP I feel need some love in there lives and should get a better outlook with life.

BEE said...

Did I read correctly (on this blog) that GWoP is now saying that their mission is not child advocacy but to have "truths" exposed about the Gosselins?? I refuse to go over yonder, can someone explain.

CincyMom said...

It is funny (not ha ha, but funny "interesting"). I have mentioned these sites to only 2 people, but neither has heard of any controversy or fans and both are "casual" friends of the show that have no problem with what they've seen. It's just a show to them.

Does anyone else discuss this in real life with anyone?

indianprincess said...

CincyMom, I chat about the Gosselin's all the time with more of the show and sometimes about the blogs. My hubby thinks I'm weird getting caught up in the hype surrounding the show and should find a better hobby :)

Kikibee said...

Here is a definition of sheeple from the Urban Dictionary.
"People unable to think for themselves. Followers. Lemmings. Those with no cognitive ablilities of their own."

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but does this not apply to the "haters" (for lack of a better word) just as much as it does to the worshippers?

If you read just about any page at GWoP (or any similar blog) you will find people saying the same things over and over. They still reference the same outdated secondhand truths (Julie),and the completely fictional truths (PM), with no verification. They believe anything negative that anyone decides to post (wedding guests, various people who claim to have had run- ins with J or K). They speculate and make assumptions based on mostly made up evidence and it is never questioned.

Why are "we" considered sheeple, when most people here do question many things, when they, who question nothing negative, are not?

Saint said...

CincyMom,
I only discuss (and watch) with my husband and children now. i have talked about the Gosselins with my sisters somewhat in the past.

Saint said...

I rarely read GWoP, but I did read the nasty recap, and most of the "Tups turn Fifty" post. I also read some comments. I only have to read some because they are all variants of the same 5 points, no matter what the topic over there.

Saint said...

Someone brought up the Twilight books. I read all of the first two and part of the last. They are rather repetitive...just a guilty pleasure at first. One of my sisters is a school librarian (private school)and wanted my opinion about putting them on her shelves. They're silly to me. My 14 year old daughter LOVES them. She's seen the movie with groups of girlfriends twice now. I had to say no to the third time. Movies are expensive! She just LOVES that Edward Cullen, though.

Lizabeth said...

Ya know its all kinds of telling when someone goes to a freakin' hand writing analysis site to report what it is Kate's handwriting on the cover of her new book means about her. (IF this was actually done in reality and not just a way to get attention-- if not then it is a stupid thing to talk about anyway).

Beyond that I will echo that the way some people talk about the Gosselin kids is just wrong. I grew up with 4 brothers and trust me they know how to be sarcastic and snarky... there are some things that you can say to family because of the close relationship you have. If anyone even dared to try treating me the way my brothers do though that person would quickly regret their words :). That is why I think its ok for Jon and Kate to joke about certain things their kids do and say- they are the parents, so they have the right.

Kikibee, I completely agree with your statement that the 'haters' are more sheeple than those here at GDNNOP. At least this is honestly an open forum where people can disagree and actually be heard. I do not agree with or approve of all the Gosselins do but it makes me so frustrated to see the blind hatred so many feel. I have no idea how ya'lls lives are, but I am far too busy loving on my family (especially my adorable nephew) and friends to care that deeply about a random family on TV who obviously loves their kids and has chosen to allow us to watch them grow up.

(and yes, of course I want more laws to protect kids... I just really think many GWoPpers need to keep all of this in perspective!!)

Saint said...

Nothing from Paul Peterson regarding the Gosselins on O'Reilly tonight. They were introducing the release of the Donna Reed show on CD, and spoke about that with Shelley Fabares. He briefly mentioned his addiction in his 20's; she seems to have been unscathed by her childhood fame. He didn't even mention his website.

indianprincess said...

I don't like Kate Gosselin anymore for forcing me to watch Bill O'Reilly and it's her fault for wasting one hour of my day. If it wasn't for her hairdo messing with my brain then maybe I would have that one hour back. Ha :)

Oh at least I know OJ Simpson is going to jail.

Saint said...

Bee said:
Did I read correctly (on this blog) that GWoP is now saying that their mission is not child advocacy but to have "truths" exposed about the Gosselins?? I refuse to go over yonder, can someone explain.

Yes, that's the new story. It's not about child advocacy (and never really was) so they should all feel much better now about lauging at Joel and picking on Hannah.

If you look at their FAQ's, they answer one question, Why a blog to spew hate? with: "The purpose of this blog is not to spew hate; the purpose of this blog is to make sure people know the full story behind the Gosselin family. How they are deceiving the public and robbing their children of a childhood."

They answer five other questions with variants on the child advocacy theme including these statements:

"In addition to advocating for the Gosselin children and exposing the deceptive practices of their parents..."

"Our mutual concern for the welfare of children in general causes us to be deeply disturbed by the exploitation of the Gosselin children."

"The best way to advocate for the children is to know what is happening in their lives. If the exploitation of the Gosselin children is never challenged, it will set a dangerous precedent for other children that come after them. We think it is better to try to get it nipped in the bud than to look the other way."


"What’s wrong with freebies?
Nothing at all- unless you have to...

-pimp out your kids to get them.
-force your kids to work in front of cameras three, four or even more days a week, all day long, just to get them.
-deny your children basic human privacy and dignity to get them and you begin to expect them and feel entitled to them or owed them, and the ones that aren't "good enough" for you get criticized or outright rejected."


And,
"Worrying about the Gosselin children does not preclude worrying about other children, or other weighty issues in general."

So you see, it was just a place to find the ol' Twop friends and expose the "truth" about the Gosselins. It was NEVER about child advocacy. Nope. Never was. And Sharla gets a irritated evrtime someone brings it up.

Nina Bell said...

Saint,

I taped the interview but really did not want to watch it. So now I won't have to. Thanks for that.

I was anticipating that we would have to start a new post to talk about what was discussed by Paul, but now we won't have to.

Anya said...

indianprincess said..."I don't like Kate Gosselin anymore for forcing me to watch Bill O'Reilly and it's her fault for wasting one hour of my day."

Whew, thanks to Saint I escaped your fate! So sorry! LOL

Quite interesting that Paul Peterson had ample opportunity to "expose" (ha) the Gosselins and didn't find it worthy to spend any time on.

indianprincess said...

Anya, At least gilmore girls was on another channel so flipping back and forth between shows wasn't all that bad plus I didn't think Paul was going to talk about the Gosselin's expecially on Bill O'Reilly.. it was quite interesting and had to laugh...

FIONA said...

Does anyone else discuss this in real life with anyone?

December 5, 2008 12:10 PM

---

It has come up were I work, and the few who casually view it think Kate is funny. They see no harm in the show, know nothing about the blogs, Jodi or Beth, etc....They watch it if they are home on Monday night and enjoy it.

Probably like the other millions of people who do.

Nina Bell said...

Does anyone else discuss this in real life with anyone?

I have one co-worker that I just recently found out that watches. She loves the show and has caught up with all of the re-runs. She actually knows nothing about any of these blogs and I certainly did not inform her about them. She just casually asked one day at lunch if anyone else watches.

I did ask her what she thought of Kate. She absolutely loves her, faults and all.

FIONA said...

That is why I think its ok for Jon and Kate to joke about certain things their kids do and say- they are the parents, so they have the right.
--

I would tend to agree with you if Jon and Kate were having a little giggle over coffee with some friends?family? about said kid, but when it is said on TV, and the kids get to *hear* what Mom and Dad said, I think it is going to cause some hurt feelings.

Discretion.

Mom said...

I find it super interesting that Serena is no longer an "active" poster or mod at GWOP anymore.

It also makes me wonder if the PM thing played any role.

Serena - I would love to know.

merryway said...

There is no one I know who watches this show. My grown sons have been forced to listen to little bits (it's only fair, I have to hear so much about their virtual world games). They were actually a little interested, but certainly not enough to watch. My friends know I watch and am fascinated, that's about it. I'm sure they're all glad this blog is here. I would be compelled to force them to listen to some if it weren't for this forum.

mariel said...

I thought GWop was Serena's baby and that she started it. Serena was all over that blog in the early days and even had a little blurb about herself saying she had a successful career in advertising or something like that in addition to being a CASA and doing all this other stuff with her perfect and fullfilling life, which was utter nonsense.

The excuse for her absence at Gwop was that she was working at DWop but she hasn't contributed anything there since mid September just based on the entries. No way am I going to look through the comments to find her. Has anyone heard from her since September?

Katydid said...

"Top rated show on TLC" doesn't mean that it's at the top of the cable tv ratings. According to Nielsen, it's not even in the Top 20 (http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/12/02/nfl-ncaa-football-wwe-raw-spongebob-and-tinker-bell-lead-weekly-cable-viewing/9039#more-9039). The 20th most popular show on cable last week (Moonlight and Mistletoe on the Hallmark channel)had 4.02 million viewers, J&K had 2.624 million.

The Gosselins are very important to their network, but not in the grand scheme of television.

Denise said...

Quite interesting that Paul Peterson had ample opportunity to "expose" (ha) the Gosselins and didn't find it worthy to spend any time on.

The appearance was to promote the 50th anniversary of The Donna Reed show and the DVD.
The link to Minor Consideration scrolled across the bottom of the screen and it is VERY NEGATIVE in regard to the Gosselins.

Daisy said...

I have a few friends that I discuss the show with. None of them know about the internet world of J&K. I've been tempted to tell one of them but haven't yet. They all like the show and realize they aren't perfect just like the Gosselins.

Mom: "I find it super interesting that Serena is no longer an "active" poster or mod at GWOP anymore.

It also makes me wonder if the PM thing played any role."

I agree with this. It's suspicious that Serena left when PM began.

Nina Bell said...

Denise

I think we are all aware of Paul Peterson's website and what he has to say about the show.

I am glad you were aware of the purpose of what Paul's appearance was about because there were many blogs and message boards out there with people commenting about how they couldn't wait to hear what Paul had to say and how Bill and Paul would pretty much put the Gosselins in their place. This blog however, was not one of them.

Nina Bell said...

Katydid,

"Top rateded show on TLC" doesn't mean that it's at the top of the cable tv ratings

Top rate show on TLC means exactly that.

I would not read that statement and then think she meant it was the top rated show on cable.

We really can read over her and figure things out.

Nina Bell said...

I know, I know.

I am in one of those moods.:)

ashley said...

I saw this post at GWOP today and just had to share it...

"Too bad she's too lazy to get her children into the lessons for singing, dance, so forth and so on. They have no personality and their not all that in the looks department and, as it is, and Kate's too lazy to deal with having to do the work with getting them to classes to learn to be something other then angry little horrors."

Basically the mods allowed a poster to call the kids ugly, little horrors, and said they have no personality. I wonder how these people would feel if someone said that about their children. Too bad the kids are gorgeous, funny, and happy from the television I have been watching! Those people have lost their minds.

dotsicle said...

"...They have no personality and their not all that in the looks department and, as it is, and Kate's too lazy to deal with having to do the work with getting them to classes to learn to be something other then angry little horrors."

"Basically the mods allowed a poster to call the kids ugly, little horrors, and said they have no personality."

The poster did say the kids have no personality (I disagree) but didn't say they were ugly. "Not all that in the looks department" means AVERAGE, to me... and I would agree with that. The kids are average cute, like most kids are! Most kids are cute, and the Gosselins are as cute as most other kids.... the fact that there are so many of them adds to the so-called cuteness.
She did say "angry little horrors" and I'd agree that some of the kids act angry much of the time, which is indeed horrible. It's too bad that the kids are shown to be angry or out-of-sorts so often. Isn't childhood supposed to be HAPPY and FUN? Maybe these kids would have more fun if they didn't have to be on camera so much.

Angela said...

My relatives and I chatted about the show over Thanksgiving, and those that watch it find it entertaining and enjoyable - none of them knew about the internet chatter about the show. We did all agree that it seems like the Gosselin's lifestyle has improved considerably since the show began but no one was upset about that or thought that it was a horrible thing. That's pretty much the sentiment when I've talked to others about the show, they notice the free trips and such but do not see it as terrible or wrong. I think the show is okay and don't understand why there are some that are in such a tizzy over it, the only thing that has ever bothered me is that there have been a few times where the kids looked like they were not enjoying being filmed. I hope that they will end the show if those moments become more frequent. I really don't understand all the hatred towards them though. I don't think Jon and Kate are the most likable couple on the planet, but I don't understand why some hate them so much.

Tyra said...

Quote:
The poster did say the kids have no personality (I disagree) but didn't say they were ugly. "Not all that in the looks department" means AVERAGE, to me

'Not all that in the looks department' strikes me as being a strange phrase to apply to children. It strikes an icky tone, to me. As if children's looks are being judged in the same way as adults'. If you're an agent, and it's your job, okay, you've got to look for the 'cutest' kids, but for the rest of us to categorize kids in that way, with those kinds of rude and dismissive words, and the offensive tone of the GWoP poster is just... icky.

Quote:
She did say "angry little horrors" and I'd agree that some of the kids act angry much of the time, which is indeed horrible. It's too bad that the kids are shown to be angry or out-of-sorts so often.

How are we to determine 'so often', or 'much of the time', when we're watching a highly edited piece of film?

And 'angry little horrors' couldn't be ruder or more dismissive of little fellow human beings. It just offends me.

MoreCowbell said...

Okay, I have a question. Has anyone caught the show "Twins, Twins and Sextuplets," which is about the Hayes family who have TEN kids? I keep catching it after it has already started, so I always miss the beginning. Did they say how they ended up with three sets of multiples? I'm assuming it wasn't the "natural way." Betty Hayes can't be THAT good at releasing eggs without help. Did they go the same route as the Gosselins and use IVF? Was it just a result of fertility drugs? And if so, why in God's name, after having two sets of twins would they try again? I mean, doesn't that make them more "selfish" than the Gosselins? Have the "advocates" weighed in on this? I mean, they claim that Kate is the most selfish human being on the face of the earth for "purposely" getting pregnant a second time after having a set of twins. This Hayes woman must really be the devil for doing it THREE times. [sarcasm meter switched to ON]

And did you notice? They showed the Hayes sextuplets GOING POTTY ON TELEVISION. Where are the "advocates" on this? The silence is a bit deafening (and quite telling). Why aren't they stalking the Hayes family? No articles in the National Enquirer? No e-mail campaigns to TLC and Paul Peterson? BARE BUTTS ON TV! Why, isn't that (whispering) kiddie porn? I mean, we saw the Hayes boys peeing in the bushes and then we also saw them sitting on a PUBLIC potty with their bare bottoms touching that dirty seat. CALL CPS!

Oh, that's right. The GWoPpers are no longer "advocates." They've finally admitted that their mission all along has been to harass and make the Gosselins life miserable. [insert golf clap here]

Hypocrites. Or maybe just cowardly. You see, Eric Hayes is a COP. I think he may know what cyberstalking and harassment is, and know how to trace and prosecute anything that might cross the line. Either that, or he knows who to call to do those things on their behalf. Cops protect their own. Kind of makes you think twice before sitting behind your anonymous computer screen, firing off nasty letters and doing Google searches to find out private family information, doesn't it?

Anya said...

Tyra said... And 'angry little horrors' couldn't be ruder or more dismissive of little fellow human beings. It just offends me.

It offends me as well, but it also leaves me confused - are they watching the same show I am?

Which child (appears) to be so angry that this phrase applies?

I honestly cannot think of any reason this would apply to the sextuplets or Cara. Is this a dig at Mady?

My view of Mady - because of having to be the 'big sister' and her natural intelligence, she is a couple of years ahead of her peers. She has (to me) the very recognizable traits of pre-teenhood coming on. For my daughter, they hit around 11 or 12. And yes, she was angry and unreasonable a lot of the time. Imagine if we had a camera in our home - I don't even want to think about it.

My opinion - everything I have seen on this edited tv show leads me to believe these children are well within the range of normal behavior and actually well-behaved considering their circumstances.

I just don't get it.

merryway said...

Saint, that's interesting point about the Hayes' family father being an officer. I think it would give them more than an edge with that scary type of behavior. I saw the first episode and loved it. I haven't seen anymore, so I was beginning to think it was a special. They did have fertility treatments, I believe the same type as Kate. They were willing to have another set of multiples after their first two set of twins. They were one of the couples who got caught in the “odds are almost impossible”. There were some posts about the things you mentioned in regards to potty shots, etc.

It seems like the GWOP crazy hate keeps escalating over time. I can't remember all the old stuff I read when I first started searching, so I'm not sure. All of the insider info deflates the blog of any purpose to be taken seriously, ntm the repeated ridiculous nitpicking. The methods they use to try to spread this hatred make it seem so personal. Going to any site associated with J&K and repeating the various chants. The level of hatred is so high that I would have to guess those that started this blog personally knew and hated Kate or they're just obsessed rabid stalker types.

On another thread, Nina pointed out that on a petition to take J&K off the air there were about 500 signatures since June. It's at 580 now. That's after the exposure from Nat. Enq and AMC.

Can you say inconsequential? I know you can.

Joanna said...

Saint said...So you see, it was just a place to find the ol' Twop friends and expose the "truth" about the Gosselins. It was NEVER about child advocacy. Nope. Never was. And Sharla gets a irritated evrtime someone brings it up.

December 5, 2008 6:22 PM

_______________________

Saint I beleive Sharla gets irritated with anyone who doesn't hate the Gosselins. She won't accept even truthful answers to posts they have. She just has one agenda and that is to spread hate.

I came aboard to late....what is "PM"?

And, yeah, why aren't they fussing about the Twins, Twins, and Sextuplets show and bashing the heck out of that mother?

merryway said...

I said,
The level of hatred is so high that I would have to guess those that started this blog personally knew and hated Kate or they're just obsessed rabid stalker types.

Oops, I hope it's clear I didn't literally mean “this blog” and was referring to GWOP.

indianprincess said...

Hope everyone had a good weekend! Sorry for this long post...I needed to say my peace! The Gosselins are not perfect, or superstar parents and that’s why I tune in every Monday night. Kate is bitchy and controlling. Jon stands by Kate with all her short comings and flaws. Sometimes the kids are sweet and sometimes they’re not .It’s real life and it’s a real family. We all make bad parenting choices sometimes and it's nice to see parents on TV being real about it. I guess, to me the show is what it is because they’re still together and it shows a family with love, life and chaos. I for one am not in the business to trash a family even if I don't agree with the decisions they make. The petty opinions about the family is silly to me. I like this blog because coming here reading the posts I don't feel like I'm back in high school bickering like a bunch of gossipy teenagers. Each persons opinions is different and it's not like I'm in some twilight zone reading the same opinion over and over again but with a different name attached. No matter what everyone's opinion is about the Gosselin's I don't believe they are evil for doing a show and I feel the children even Mady will grow up to be well rounded persons with two parents who love them all. I don't feel like I was lied to about them struggling financially. Yes, they had hard times in the beginning when the children were born and now they are very well off from doing the show. I tried to understand all the negative views from GWOP and other posters and I still believe something is a miss in these peoples lives and they themselves probably don't even know it. I support the Gosselin's not because they have a show, I support them because they are a family and I wish all families the best. It's the way I am.

Ruthe said...

This is no longer what I consider a "pro-Gosselin" blog. It is truly an "anti-Gwop" site and as such is increasingly boring. I bow out with one last thought. The only true pro-Gosselin stance is one that brings this show to an end and allows those children and family to live a peaceful and private life.

What would be a desired title for the next episode? "Its a Wrap"

signing off................

Nina Bell said...

This is no longer what I consider a "pro-Gosselin" blog. It is truly an "anti-Gwop" site and as such is increasingly boring

I can only take that as a compliment. Thank you.

You have your own agenda when you come over here and would only truly be content if we all said, "Oh yes Ruthe - you are so right. Thank you so much for enlightening me."

People like you dislike this blog because we bring attention to the craziness that goes on over there.

Good luck to you.

Saint said...

Catching up on posts...

I am proudly anti-GWoP.

Whatever the purpose of that blog, it's a nasty piece of work. It encourages low, rude, stupid, shameful crticism of young children from posters. It showcases the waste of what could be a real gift for humorous writing by the brilliantly acerbic but increasingly aggressive and downright mean Three Farmers. Her "recaps," directed against young kids, are now a complete disgrace. Can she really be a school teacher?

Three Farmers knows that Penn Mommy was a fraud. She knows that the crazy CA blogger who invented the Penn Mommy persona is a liar and scam artist. She knows that the stories about Kate Gosselin made up by that blogger are invented. She suspects (or knows) that there are no "insiders" that have come forward except Jodi's sister Julie...who cannot know much at all, and whose feelings are colored by her sister's pain.

Has Three Farmers tried to correct that HUGE injustice brought to us compliments of GWoP? Not. One. Bit. She continues to lap up the praise of the duller commenters at GWoP for her "brilliant recaps." She seems to feed on the embarrassing kudos from her simpering fans, bragging that she writes it all very easily. I suppose that means she must lock her conscience in her teacher's desk before she lays in to children she can only know from her TV.

I understand the concerns of people who really believe the TV show is a mistake. I do not understand the meaness of spirit required to associate with what GWoP has become.

My congratulations to anyone over there who "burned out" after a few months and quit. Here's hoping Three Farmers, at least, will burn out soon and find a more suitable target for her talents than the Gosselin children.

And no, I do not blame Kate Gosselin for what she inspires in Three Farmers. I blame Three Farmers for that.

Saint said...

Ruthe said...
The only true pro-Gosselin stance is one that brings this show to an end and allows those children and family to live a peaceful and private life.

You cannot possibly think that what happens at GWoP demonstrates a wish that the family live a peaceful and private life, do you? Peaceful and private? What is the house post about? How does that promote peace and privacy?

What happens at GWoP is a wish for retribution against the family for some perceived injustice. GWoP posters predict that exposing the children on TV will open them to scorn. Then, to ensure the prediction comes true, GWoP provides the scorn!

GWoPpers are irked by Jon's committment to his wife, by her good looks, by their wealth, by the children's failure to reject their mother. They fantasize about Jon abandoning Kate, the children ignoring their mother in the future, their inability to maintain their lovely home. And, most telling to me, they jealously pick apart her rather fit frame, by endlessly remarking on her hair, imaginary love handles, greasy legs, blah, blah, blah. Really, the place is bad for the posters' souls.

Do you want to end the show while still maintaining your dignity? Stay at this blog and behave yourself. And be prepared to read the posts of people who disagree that the show will rob the children of their happiness.

Nina Bell said...

Ruthe,

Something was really nagging me at the back of my mind. I went back to a previous thread and found this statement from you:

Ruthe said...
SamanthaNC

Perhaps then someone should open a new discussion with regards to astounding GWOP posts. That way when those of us want to read comments about the poll, we can do so without distraction and those that want to talk about GWOP can do the same.


Because of your suggestion, I opened this thread.

Now here you are commenting about people who want to talk about GWoP?

Saint said...

Poor Ruthe,
What Nina just posted is a little embarrassing isn't it? Fiona suggested in the second comment that we put our GWoP opinions here! Why didn't poor Ruthe just skip this thread? Was she looking for the GWoP posts? Is there a GWoP poster named Ruthe?

merryway said...

Saint, that's interesting point about the Hayes' family father being an officer. I saw the first episode and loved it. I haven't seen anymore, so I was beginning to think it was a special. They did have fertility treatments, I believe the same type as Kate. They were willing to have another set of multiples after their first two set of twins. They were one of the couples who got caught in the “odds are almost impossible”. There was a decry of the potty shots.





I am repeatedly surprised that people put their perspective out there and then are shocked when others disagree. Even some posters on GWOP that are anti-Kate are chastised for not being anti-Kate enough.

Since it's an open discussion here's some of my randomness:

My other major irk: Kate is ragged on because of the below statement on their website. She also said somewhere “we gambled and lost”.

From the Gosselin Site, by Kate:

So, we were truly unaware that there were 7 possible babies in there on the day that our procedure was done…or I can assure you, we would not have gone through with it!!

She's not saying she would get rid of them today or she wishes they weren't ever born. She's stating the obvious and explaining the procedure. Some who know nothing about infertility might think it was a choice to conceive so many. The rakes on Kate for stating the above is so bad for women in general. Being surprised by any pregnancy should allow for lots of emotions. It's just a fact that many of us were or have had surprise pregnancies.

I hate it when the kids are referred to as litters. It's so demeaning to life in general.

Indianprincess, I'm sorry you gave an hour. I like Shelley Fabares and still didn't turn it on just because of my dislike for O'Reilly.

Regarding Julie's latest comments on the “Kate's Next Proposed Opus” thread. It's in regards to pedophiles and pictures of the Gosselin children. There are pictures of children everywhere, In this regard, they would have to be talking about any public picture of a celebrity child. What a warped person does with public information is not the victim's fault. At that level, it's such an irrational argument that I'm relieved I don't need to explore it further.

Saint, I'm sorry I was referring to Morecowbell's post. Let me just put a blanket apology out for any typos, grammatical erros, or mix up of names. If I'm on here, I'm on “me” time, relaxing and enjoying analyzing different thoughts. I usually have to put writings aside for awhile before I edit as I am still too busy in my thoughts to accurately proof. Otherwise, I have a found out that I am POSITIVE everything is correct when it is certainly not. It makes me crazy. An extra apology as I feel rude getting names mixed up. it's right there in front of my face.

mariel said...

There was a pretty thorough discussion of the Hayes family at Twop for those interested in the contrast of opinions.

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?showtopic=3179485&st=0

Julie might be back to her old games. She snuck in a post when the subject of pedophiles came up. She made sure to make it seem that she knew something we didn't know and implied that the kids are in danger without giving details. Alot like her references to abuse in the PM blog. Here's what she said-----

brandleymom: Can you imagine how much Gosselin photos are a desired commodity. The utterly sad part is that in a lot of cases pictures of the tups' don't even have any need to photoshop it - its all right there.

"Your post is so heartbreaking and 100% accurate. Most people don't even know the kind of thing that you descibed even goes on. I know I didn't until a few months ago. This is not speculation or an exaggeration. Someone who tracks this kind of thing and is an expert on this subject matter has said:

"best case scenario--they end the show and move out of the country."

This is how dire the situation is for the children."

nc resident said...

Saint said:
And no, I do not blame Kate Gosselin for what she inspires in Three Farmers. I blame Three Farmers for that.

Saint I agree with you and I want to make 2 points on that comment. First, being, J&K should be responsible for their own actions and comments. We dont not need to give them a free pass, mulligan, or benefit of the doubt right. No excuses for whatever. They have said things and continue to that will have more of an impact on their kids than a blog post, IMO. I think its more likely the kids will watch DVD's of the show than read an Internet blog titled GWOP or GDNNOP for that matter.

Secondly, I do not agree with alot of her theatrics in the way she post. Nor do I condone her comments, but if she were to stop posting today someone else would take her place. A theme I see in the Gosselin life is how "people are out to make us look bad". Jon said that when trying to recant an interview with the local paper four years ago. Even back then they had people less than polite to their cause. Why is the big question.

Why is it Matt Roloff can get not one but 2 DUI arrests and the Duggars have help with the new home they built, (it appears from the show they did), and neither reach the discussion level of this show.

In the newspaper article I referenced for you the last line says they had all they need financially. What happened? I think this comment made by Jon speaks alot about why people do not like them. Many people see "smoke and mirrors" when you talk about them. Missing family, missing friends, missing co-authors, stories of need while others see images of greed.

To sum it up the Gosselin image leads to people that are neutral, others that defend them and yet others that bash them in the namesake of protecting the kids.

If you want to help the kids help change the labor laws. Write a state senator, not a blog.

Lizabeth said...

I am watching a Good Housekeeping Christmas special thing right now and they talked a bit about Jon and Kate. It showed an older episode where they have the kids 'draw names' (the tups looked around 2 1/2). It was really sweet-- Kate would help them pick a piece of paper then announce who they got to get a gift for.
They had the little interview thing where Kate talks about how they try to get the twins to buy each other the same thing. I agree with this-- having a big family I know just how stressful it is when one person gets something more expensive or more fancy than the rest of us. Typically in my family my brothers would get expensive computer or Xbox games then I'd make up for it with clothes (that my mom picked out... yeah... cause thats just what every teenage girl wants-- clothes their mom thinks are cool!!). It never seemed fair but I don't know that there really is a way to make holidays truly fair with a big family. Jon and Kate seem to do a great job trying to get the kids to be a part of the process though instead of just the result.

nc resident said...

Merryway,

I am not a doctor but I thought that ultrasound was used to see how many follicles could be seen before the proceedure was done. This is a case where if we knew more we would have a more accurate idea of what happened. Some say that, even she says, she was overstimulated, she was hospitalized. Is that the same as alot of follicles. See my point is to me and maybe only me somethings just add up. For an outsider it looks like she had no idea how many were there. For others it looks like maybe they knew and proceeded. Who knows.

FIONA said...

One truly has to wonder how submissive Jodi is to allow her sister to continue with her postings.

I wonder how Julie would feel if Kate started posting about Julie's kids, her job, her marriage?

Julie, please go away.

If Jodi is concerned about a "dire" situation, let her be the one to let the truth out! You have zero credibility.

Kikibee said...

So who is this "expert" who thinks they should move out of the country? Why can he/she not be named? Was it even said in reference to the Gosselins? And do they not have pedophiles in other countries?

Didn't at least one of Jodi's kids appear partially clothed on the show? I hope Julie gave her heck over that. Or is it just the G kids who are in danger?

Really, shouldn't we lock up all our children until they are adults so they can't be photographed?
At least,don't let them take swimming, dance, or gymnastic lessons because they might be photgraphed in form-fitting,
revealing clothing.

Unfortunately,pedos can get any kind of horrific pictures they want of any kind of child. I don't think a picture book of the Gosselin kids is going to have much of an impact in that vile community.

nomoredrama said...

MCB,
I haven't watched twins,twins and sextuplets (I can't handle another gosselin type show, LOL) but I think your point was a good one.

I'm laughing that now, all of the sudden, they are no longer child advocates. Funny, I've had so many arguments with GWoPers over the months that stated just the opposite (including Julie herself who has not tried to paint herself in that light).

Kate may (or may not) be a rude person but the treatment she gets is jut astounding. If people only had a minute understanding of how many celebrities behave like Kate...would they stop watching tv and movies in general?

No surprise that Paul Peterson didn't talk about the Gosselins on Bill O'Reilly. I don't think that was his purpose for being there. I think people just ASSumed that since he was going on the show he would take the opportunity to 'advocate.' Nope...

Alright, this post is a giant ramble now....

Nina Bell said...

Joanne,

PM is Penn Mommy and it is kind of a long story. You can go to the Archives at the bottom of the right hand side of the blog and click on October. There are two posts that reference this. One is Called "Who is Penn Mommy" and the other is "In Search of the Real Truth." There are some other posts related to this and all of the comments are quite interesting.

Maybe someone here would like to give her the short version.

FIONA said...

http://www.myfoxny.com/myfox/pages/InsideFox/Detail?contentId=7994418&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=5.7.1

-----


Don't ever say I never complimented to Kate! She looks fab in this video clip, hair really nice, and she sounds nice!

Saint said...

ncresident asked:

"Why is it Matt Roloff can get not one but 2 DUI arrests and the Duggars have help with the new home they built, (it appears from the show they did), and neither reach the discussion level of this show."

I think it is more than Jon responding to comments online before their show started, and more than Kate asking for an extra year of a nurse from the state of PA. That is definitely a part. So is her whining about being exhausted from 8 kids while teachers and day care centers, and frankly, other big families, deal with 8+ kids without whining. So is the bickering (which is greatly reduced this season, IMO) between Jon and Kate. So are the missing family members. Those pieces of the Gosselin puzzle are the things that brought me and maybe even you to believe Kate is not someone I would befriend, don't particularly admire, and shouldn't really be a role model for other women. It's not why I think the show should be off the air.

I think the show should be off the air because the children are shown in too many sensitive moments. Period. Not because I don't really like Kate.

If that's what GWoP wrote about, it would be legitimate to me. But it's not. And Sharla basically gave up on the advocacy thing recently.

There is something more that motivates Three Farmers and others at GWoP to actually mock and encourage others to mock Hannah Gosselin, or laugh at Joel. It's not the things I wrote above. It's something wrong inside those people themselves. I believe it's jealousy, that leads them to actually hate Kate Gosselin. They are jealous of her wealth. They are jealous of her marriage. They are jealous of her good looks. They attack her for those three things, yet there is nothing wrong with being rich, photogenic, or happily married.

It makes no sense for GWoPpers to pretend they give a care for the kids when they admit that they love "snarking" about the show. They exploit those kids for their own pleasure. Their exploitation, though, is of no benefit at all to the Gosselin children.

I don't watch much of the Duggars or LPBW. But as far as I know, Michelle Duggar puts her children on TV. So does Mr. Roloff. People aren't jealous of Matt Roloff, though, because his wealth and fame come with a physical disability. Michelle Duggar's come with 17 or 18 (can't remember) pregnancies and religious restrictions the GWoPpers do not want to submit to. That's one way to tell that the GWoppers are motivated by jealousy and hate rather than concern, actually. Only Kate Gosselin's children seem to need saving and mocking them is a respected and encouraged means of doing so over there.

I remember the story you referenced about Jon saying their church helped them financially. So Jon felt grateful and secure at that time. And at some other time Jon stood in line for help paying for utilities. Maybe he had the $$$ and shouldn't have asked? I don't know. If they are defrauding someone or did in the past, they should be exposed. But there isn't evidence of that happening now, can GWoP admit that? And even if the parents are the pits, is there some excuse for mocking the children?

Your suggestion for writing to lawmakers is excellent. You're right about the various (strong) reactions to the Gosselins. And you're unfortunately correct that when Three Farmers finally feels crappy about what she writes there will be some one else willing to lap up praise for laughing at Hannah and Joel. Hopefully there will be some one nearby on another blog (since GWoP won't permit any crticism through) to point out how mean it is to laugh at and wish misery on some one's children.

Saint said...

Happy Birthday to Mom!
Happy Birthday to Fiona, too!

(I hope I'm right about that!)

Nina Bell said...

Is it Fiona's birthday also??

Happy Birthday Fiona!

Saint said...

I do not care for the way Julie wrote that she talked to an expert about pedophiles and the Gosselin kids. She's not an expert, and she has not named her expert. Previously, she threw her support behind a fraud and scam artist and has not retracted it. She has not acknowledged her part in supporting the lies made up by that lying liar, PM. Julie's credibility is a ZERO right now.

Unfortunately, this is something that concerns me about the Gosselin children, and always has. Of course, it won't be discussed with care because of the nuttiness over there. Bleh!

Saint said...

Fiona mentioned decorating the tree on her birthday, but I missed by a day. Sorry. Happy belated birthday Fiona!

Theresa said...

I'm confused, Mariel. Is the Julie you wrote in your post...is that Jodi's sister, Julie?

I agree with you Lizabeth...That is why I think its ok for Jon and Kate to joke about certain things their kids do and say- they are the parents, so they have the right. Like when John imitates Joel. He's not doing it to be mean like "they over there" think, he's doing it in that family kind of jokin way/inside family joke. Honestly, they pick apart things and give them inaccurate meanings. Who has time for that?

Happy Birthday Mom! Happy Birthday Fiona!

Mary said...

I can't bring myself to go over and peek at gwop. I had my fill about a month ago. Disgusting. I so agree that it was never about child advocacy. If it was, why all the nasty words for the kids? Why mention Kate's rear or hair or Jon's weight? What does that have to do with child advocacy. And the last thing I'll say about gwop is that they are cowardly. Post after post by Anonymous so nobody can attach a name to the ugly words. When I visit this site and read what you all have seen over there it makes me feel as if there is an entire subculture out there that just loves to be ugly about things and the Gosselin family is an easy target. That said, I don't think this is a perfect scenario for the kids and I am also sometimes really put off by Kate. And she would probably be put off by me LOL!

mariel said...

"I'm confused, Mariel. Is the Julie you wrote in your post...is that Jodi's sister, Julie?"

Yes, it was posted under her Blogger ID of The Truth Will Set You Free. Sorry, I should have included her unique ID to make it clear. There are lots of Julies, but only one The Truth Will Set You Free.

Anya said...

Saint, thanks for the interesting and thoughtful posts from you today.

To my GDNNOP friends - Happy Birthday to Mom and Fiona!

aap said...

ncresident asked:

"Why is it Matt Roloff can get not one but 2 DUI arrests and the Duggars have help with the new home they built, (it appears from the show they did), and neither reach the discussion level of this show."


In regards to Matt Roloff, I have often thought to myself why I don't feel as aggravated (for lack of a better word) when I watch LPBW as I do when I watch Jon and Kate. Because, when it comes to being opportunistic, I think Matt is pretty similiar to Jon and Kate. Maybe it's because Amy seems more level headed and reins Matt back from doing all that is offered to the ones that just benefit the family. Maybe it's because LPBW shows the consquences of when Matt goes too far. (I don't know if anyone else watches but lately it's becoming more uncomfortable for me to watch the strain in Matt and Amy's marriage.) Maybe it's because when it comes to housecleaning, I am definitely more Team Amy then Team Kate. Maybe it's the fact that Matt still works to try to make his grandious plans come to fruition.

When I watch Jon and Kate I feel as if they are trying to sell me something that isn't quite true. Take Monday's show for example. While I think it's going to be a cute show, and I know my daughter, who loves to pretend to be Mommy will especially love it, the topic reads to me to be more sitcomish than reality tv. I think Jon and Kate say they stand for something when their actions don't back them up. And I think that's why people react more harshly to Jon and Kate then to the other show.

Theresa said...

Thanks Mariel!

Honestly, hasn't Julie done enough damage? She should be banned from her computer. :)

The woman's credibility is near a "0".

Guinevere said...

Honestly, hasn't Julie done enough damage? She should be banned from her computer. :)

The woman's credibility is near a "0".


Yeah, I feel that it says something that even *I*, who heaven knows has not been a fan of Julie's in the past, find myself surprised at how low she'll go. I don't know; I always got the sense that her need to appear "above it all" would trump her petty vindictiveness. I guess I was wrong.

I think I've said before that I wonder if Julie's not a lot like Kate in some ways; as much as I can diagnose anyone over the internet (hey, it seems to be the thing to do!), I think maybe she has some fairly large control issues and she's determined to "win this", at whatever cost. She doesn't seem to get that it's not a game, and that she's doing real harm to innocent children who've never done anything to her. She should be ashamed of herself.

Theresa said...

That is a shame Guin if that's her agenda, and I believe you could be right. Very sad.

I also think she was jealous of the relationship of her sister and Kate. Jodi and Kate live close together and probably are around each other a lot. Thus her agenda to "take down" Kate. Very vindictive, and only hurting the kids.

Mom said...

Hey all!

Thanks for the birthday wishes. This was a milestone b-day for me - the BIG "four ohhhh." LOL! I had a lovely weekend. My H hosted a party here at our house for me. There were several surprise guests from my past - kind of like "this is your life." Then, yesterday (my actual bday) we had a lazy day at home watching my new TV. I have had WAY TOO TOO TOO much cake though and feel like I've gained about 5 pounds!

Fiona - Happy Birthday to you too, fellow Sag! When was your special day?

nancy019 said...

Considering the strong reactions this show seems to produce, I have a question. If you think Kate is a bitch or you think she is a great mom, if you think Jon should grow some or if he is a wonderful dad to the kids, no matter what any of us think (and snark about endlessly) don't you think Jon and Kate would take this circus off the air? Knowing all the attention that is now being focused on your family, whether positive or negative cannot be good for the kids. No matter what, the comments they hear at school about the show must be grating on them. I think that if it is not taken off soon, yes, these children will develop problems and I cannot see why Jon and Kate do not realize this. No matter what side you are on, do you agree it is time for this train to be derailed for the kids' sake? Or I am alone in this thinking?

Nina Bell said...

Nancy

Obviously you are not alone in that thinking and I am sure you are aware of that. If it was my choice, I would probably end the show at this point and do twice yearly updates. I would probably give the kids some breathing space.

However, I feel that Jon and Kate need to be the ones that make this decision for their family. They are the best ones to make that decision.

T-bag said...

Regarding the newest thread on GWOP "Good Things About Kate"...

I find it very sad that some of those posters are so immature and hateful that they can't find ONE good thing to say about someone. Worse, they find it funny to be mean and say that the only good thing about Kate is that she doesn't beat the children. One poster told another who had something positive to say that she hoped she was being facetious, because none of those positive things were true.

Mom said...

I agree that the twice yearly specials are more interesting to me, personally. The original "documentary" style made me feel like I was seeing more of their real life.

Jaden said...

I don't think Jon or Kate care about the reaction, whether it's good or bad from any of the blogs. They are doing what they feel is best for their family.

I liked the first two specials, too, but I also know that as with anything that becomes popular, and that the kids are growing, things change. Change is good.

FIONA said...

Hey Guys,

Thanks so much for the birthday wishes! Mine was Saturday and we had a great day!

I would like to respond to a couple of things.

First I don't see too many similarities in Matt Roloff and Jon. While Matt is irritating sometimes, I think Matt is a brave dude and trys really hard to do what is best for his family.

Jim Bob Duggar I think is a a crafty man, makes good business deals and provides for his family.

I bet the negotiations as to what can and cannot be filmed at the Duggar house is much more strict than the G's.

What I perceive the biggest difference to be is that Jon and Kate appear to be more opportunisitic. Their show does seem like one big commercial. So I guess their family job is advertising.

Betty said...

Serena left because when school started her children needed her more and she found she didn't have time for blogging plus she quit watching the show.

Betty said...

Sorry I forgot to add but Serena had quit working on the blog around September 6 and then tried part-time for a week or so and couldn't find the time.

Betty said...

Oh, my. Serena wasn't a CASA, that was someone else.

Linda said...

Just curious Betty. How do you know so much about Serena. I can't keep it all straight.

Charlene said...

So, in other words, Serena put her kids before the hate blog. Good for Serena. That's where she should put her efforts.

And, if anyone has checked it out, on the Kate's Next Proposed Opus thread Sharla allows someone to post something that I think is so detrimental to the kids. It's from a "C". Yeah, Sharla's for the children...NOT! Shame on her for allowing that post to go through. That truly makes me sick.

merryway said...

One of the topics over there is about P&G having Kate as a spokesmom. P&G will never drop Kate because of a few haters. Kate and her family are the perfect fit. I've often thought that they would grab her up.

There are a lot of complaints on the GWOP site how Kate doesn't use layaway, clip coupons, and Jon doesn't know electronics (he has a new endorsement). Do they hold all advertisements to that standard? They must believe that Florence Henderson really danced around her kitchen singing about Wesson Oil. Kate's hair, conservative life and all the kids remind of the Brady mom and that's what always pops in.

Kate's attacked for having a job independent of the children. Apparently, she's not allowed any personal freedoms until they end the show.

Lizabeth said...

So I got a note from a friend last night that Kate will be at a local Barnes and Nobles here in the Grand Rapids area tomorrow night. My schedule worked out so that her and I are going to meet there-- I'll let you guys know how it goes :). I already own Multiple Blessings so I don't know if I can get it signed but if nothing else maybe I'll get to meet her!

I'm mainly just curious to see how it will go-- how many people, what she does, if she is speaking or just signing books at a table, etc...

I'll let ya'll know what happens (if anything-- for all I know we'll get there and the whole place will be filled!)

SamanthaNC said...

Wow I missed alot while I was out of town! I realize I'm coming in late in the game here but I cant let this one go. Dotsicle's need to defend a HATE FILLED comment about children???? I realize that you are going through a difficult time but honestly. Angry little horrors? Sounds just like a description of GWOP posters. Idiots. How anyone could say that these kids have "no personality" is beyond me, the fact that "their looks aren't all that"- ridiculous. They are beautiful children with loads of personality who have angry moments like all children and adults across the world. The children behave like children. What's your excuse?

CincyMom said...

I am not perfect (far from!). But I don't get all the Gosselin hate messages. I get the ones that are more critical on details. But the hate?

They are critical that the parents are the biggest idiots around because the bloggers believe J & K don't do the right things for them. But yet, the posters on those ideas are so mean, aren't they guilty of the same thing? (I have heard the argument that it is OK to be critical of them because they CHOSE to be on TV).

Yes, they did. But the people making quite hateful (not concerned, but hateful) messages do it in such a way that any message is almost discredited.

And how you act when no one is watching (like the bloggers) is as important as how you act when someone is (like J & K being on TV).

I almost hope this might make a topic thread because I don't know if people at GWoP pay attention to the headlines and really want them to think about their behavior.

Merry Christmas said...

I dont get the hate either Cincymom. The name calling of the children blows my mind. One of them called Cara a pussy wimp this morning. There is no defense for the hateful comments about Hannah either. All from the people who claim they just care about the welfare of the kids.

Id also love to get a look at the women who call Kate fat each week. I have a feeling most of them have at least 50 lbs on Kate Gosselin.

Hazel said...

You do know that GWoP has multiple moderators don't you and that Sharla isn't there full time? Why do you assume that she lets all the comments through?

CincyMom said...

Yeah--I thought Kate looked awesome in Central Park. Pushing 220, I have been sad about gaining 70 pounds in 10 years and what my husband must thing.

T-bag said...

Cincymom, I agree. The hate over there just blows my mind. I love (sarcastic) how just because J&K decided to put their children on television it's ok to bash them. They also mentioned that it's ok to drive past their house and look in the windows because J&K put their children on television. It's also ok for them to wish those children ill and poor because their parents put them on television.

I don't get it.

Saint said...

Hazel said:
You do know that GWoP has multiple moderators don't you and that Sharla isn't there full time?
Thanks, Hazel. I agree that these other moderators should be credited for the wrong they do, too. I see fostersmom and maggie, are there others? I really haven't seen a thread where the children have been protected by many posters over there...have you? I haven't read many of the threads. Am I just getting unlucky? Did Sharla speak up about the laughing at the kids? I missed it if she did. I did see that the moderator whose screen name is credited for accepting and posting Three Farmer's mean recap from last week, mocking Hannah, was Sharla. What did you think of Sharla doing that? It IS her blog. She started it, by her own admission, you know. And child advocacy was the FURTHEST thing from her mind when she started it, as many here have suspected since from before I've been reading. It puts GWOP and those posters in perspective, doesn't it?

FIONA said...

Saint,

You are too funny! :)

erin said...

I can only add one little point, the CASA in question was Watchoverthem not Serena. She and I had a bit of a war of words early on at GWoP about abuse, the role of the GAL and the CASA within the system which is now largely gone. She was also here making waves maybe a month or so (or a little more) back.

scarfoot said...

I'm watching a rerun right now. It's the episode where Jon and Kate take the twins to the American Girls show. This is absolutely cementing my opinion that Kate is an incredibly overly fearful person. She is a huge wad of anxiety and fear. They go to catch the train, and even though there is no one on the platform, and no trains in sight, she audibly gasps, tiptoes to the tracks, and says it's too scary. She pulls the kids back and doesn't want them to go near the tracks (obviously, I'm not suggesting that children be allowed to play on or near tracks - she just seemed overly ridiculous).

Then, they are walking down the street and Kate is telling Mady how she has to hold her hand while they are in New York City. Again, I am not suggesting that parents not hold their child's hand. I understand why she's doing it. I just feel that Kate is really a mess sometimes. Certainly, she has many other qualities that are not exactly appealing. However, I really believe that fear motivates a great deal of Kate's decisions and moods. She's so freaking stressed out about things that are out of her control that she's making things worse at times.

(I say all this, and then she's getting lots of flack for not turning the oven on while the twins were cooking. What do I know? Clearly, not much!!)

Lori said...

What is CASA and GAL?

sorry, I just came here about a week ago.

Lizabeth said...

Scarfoot, I agree-- there is a lot about Kate as a person that I picked up on after reading the new book, and that was one aspect you stated well. She does have a lot of worry and fear in her life and seems like one of those women who may be insecure (look at all the comments to Jon about whether he was going to leave her, etc). That doesn't change that she has made mistakes (as we all have)- just affirms that Kate Gosselin is just as human as the rest of us mortals :).

Lizabeth said...

Sorry to repost, but I had another thought about Kate today as well-- I used to work at a day care and remember talking to a few moms who seemed like the 'perfect' mother-- so loving and doting on their kids, always packed a healthy lunch, etc. When talking to one, she said that "Working a few days a week helps me be a better mom."

I was struck by that statement and realized today that it may apply to Kate. Lately many have commented how she seems more relaxed, put together, grateful. Maybe a piece of that is the fact that she has something outside of her home to take pride in, then when she gets back to Jon and the kids she does not take their love or attention for granted as much. Pure speculation, of course, but Kate strikes me as the kind of woman who really does need something outside of home to put energy into. Through doing the books and appearances she is able to provide in a different way, as well as appreciate her family more.

merryway said...

Lizabeth, that is fun that you're going to see Kate. I always feel for the author having to sign over and over. Hope it's a reasonable line and thanks ahead of time for whatever you have to tell.

Linda said...

The acronyms CASA and GAL stand for Court Appointed Special Advocate and Guardian Ad Litems.

Family Courts that deal with abused and neglected children, custody issues, etc. have advocacy programs that are staffed by CASAs and GAL.

In the county where I live, CASAs participate in 40 hours of training in order to be sworn in as advocates in the court. They also receive ongoing training and support regarding their cases. In the county where I live, CASAs are volunteers and typically GALs are attorneys and paid (probably a small amount).

CASAs are really useful in custody matters. Divorcing parents are often more interested in their own needs and advancing their agenda -- sadly it is often to hurt the other parent -- so a CASA might be appointed to look out for the best interest of the child. The mother's attorney is going to look out for the best interest of their client. The father's attorney is going to look out for the best inter of their client. A CASA is supposed to look out for the best interest of the child.

We receive training in basic principles of abuse, neglect, substance abuse, divorce adjustment, etc.
Court appointed psychologists still interview these kids and Mental Health Counselors still do therapy with them, but a CASAs job is to advocate.

Truly, it is a wonderful program.

Nina Bell said...

Thanks Linda for answering Lori's question. I didn't have a clue.

merryway said...

How ironic that GWOP is becoming a site I would consider of interest to a pedophile. Some of the descriptions are so detailed they are sickening and made my stomach turn.

Anya said...

Lizabeth...Kate strikes me as the kind of woman who really does need something outside of home to put energy into. Through doing the books and appearances she is able to provide in a different way, as well as appreciate her family more.

Lizabeth, I think this is an interesting observation. People talk about the Gosselin media storm that has hit over the last several months. Granted, the show is one of the more popular on cable and the Gosselins have plenty of news outlets, etc. interested in them. There is also the PR firm. I don't think they would be where they are now, however, without Kate. Whether it's having natural business ability, a desire to get out of the home or just wanting to make as much money as she can when they are "hot", she has seized many opportunities and they seem to still be coming (despite the best efforts of a small, but vocal group who send nasty emails every time her name is associated with any product or show).

It's funny - even though I think Jon is the more extroverted and probably "friendlier" of the two, it's Kate who has been presented with these opportunities and seized them.

For her sake and her kids, I do hope the time away gives her a sense of fulfillment and helps her to better manage the stressful moments at home.

indianprincess said...

I'm just thinking here but I think Kate feels like she needs to be making the money to feel her need for control so my guess is she feels more complete when she's working outside the home then actually staying home. I know being a stay at home mother I know when I stopped working and stopped contributing to the family financially it was hard to adjust. I didn't have to rely on anyone to support me and I think Kate has a problem with control so what I'm getting at is maybe all those years she was staying home and not contributing financially in the sense of a job away from the family she couldn't handle it and had a hard time depending solely on Jon. Imo! I could be stretching here..what does others think?

Lori said...

Thanks Linda!

Guinevere said...

How ironic that GWOP is becoming a site I would consider of interest to a pedophile. Some of the descriptions are so detailed they are sickening and made my stomach turn.

After reading some of the comments from GWoP that had been brought over to the Princess Marie Chantal board, I had to rewatch the part of the episode where Mady was "writhing" around. I really don't even know what to say. If these women are serious, they need to have their brains scrubbed with bleach. It disgusts me that they take something as innocent as a little girl rolling around on a rug and make it into a "pedophile's dream". Yuck. Some of these women are really obsessed with sexualizing these children and it completely grosses me out. I don't know if it's just part of their obsession with proving that the show is damaging to the Gosselin kids, or if some of these women have...other issues, but I find their attitudes really disturbing.

I'm not saying that a parent doesn't have to be concerned about predators and teach children appropriate safety measures. But the way these women seem to view these kids, I hope they don't have kids of their own (or aren't raising them with the same twisted attitudes they are applying to the Gosselin kids). I could easily see that doing about half as much damage as actually being sexually abused would.

merryway said...

Guin,
Some of these women are really obsessed with sexualizing these children and it completely grosses me out.

There's no way of knowing if these are women or men posters.

merryway said...

I like the bleach and brain scrubbing idea.

It was interesting watching it after reading the comments. I can't believe that bit of Mady on the floor was made into all that. What do they think about girl's gymnastics? Oh, forget it, I'm sorry I even thought that. It's such a sick subject and the whole thing is such an extreme position in regards to this situation. It's just not what I to be thinking about this time of year. I'm not going to read over there for awhile. I'm in the mood for Yuletide Cheer.

SamanthaNC said...

Some of these women are really obsessed with sexualizing these children and it completely grosses me out.

I'm glad I'm not alone in this feeling! I cannot fathom the way they twist everything around to be about pedophilia- I agree that something is SERIOUSLY wrong with their thinking. They are either grasping at straws bc of their hatred for the show or they are sick. Or actually more like both. I read some comments about Mady that were very disturbing. She's just a child watching television on the floor- these people are beyond twisted no matter what their motivation is.

Daisy said...

This morning I read someone on another board (not GWoP) call Mady "Meltdown Mady." That is just so sad to me. How someone can call a child names is beyond me. She has her good moments too. There's no reason to brand her for being a normal child.

I agree with Samantha's comments. I thought Mady was just fidegity. Turning that into something sexual is sickening since it involves a child. Thinking about it is just yucky.

MonicaW42 said...

For the life of me, I cannot understand how someone can get "a pedophiles dream" out of a little girl laying on the floor watching tv. Are people watching one to many Lifetime network movies or arm chair psycho-analyzing? Unless they are a psychiatrist who specializes in pedophilia or have prosecuted pedophile cases, they have no basis for stating misinformation.
I feel like I need to "wash my EYES out" after reading some of the comments on that.
I just had a vision of Jim Carrey in Ace Ventura Pet Detective when he is in shower and the song to " The Crying Game" is playing. And not in a funny way.

nc resident said...

I did not watch this episode in it's entirety. Honestly I got tired of the fighting, crying and conflict, so I did not see the scene with Mady on the floor. As a 50 yr old father of two grown children I was however, concerned, when Joel was recently filmed on the NC beach trip. I mentioned also that on the Thanksgiving episode that this was edited by blurring the image out. When they edit things like this it seems to say to me, we made a mistake lets correct it. Editing happens rather often, leading me to believe it is done based on public opinion, or negative reaction.

It is obvious that some GWOP posters are grasping at straws on some issues, maybe many issues regarding this show. They are however, not advocates for the children.

I personally cannot ignore what I've seen, and this is not acceptable, in my mind, for the safety of the children. Even though GWOP makes an issue out of some of it, I think we all agree that we would never have our children shown or portrayed in the ways these children have. None of us would post those childhood bath pictures on the internet, why do we accept someone else willing to do the same thing. Stereotypes of behavior, moods, favorites, least favorite, gender roles, whatever somebody sees, all at the expense of innocent children. None of these little ones have a voice or a say in what is being done or how and when they are being filmed.

Nina, I agree with you about cancelling this show. My reason is simple, the shows premise is no longer valid. It is planned activities based on advertising, scripted to be a reality commercial. It benefits TLC, Figure8 as well as the Gosselins. Financially I wonder if the Gosselins could even consider that move, hopefully they can for the sake of their family. I doubt very seriously if they asked their children or will ask them about continuing in the future.

Merryway, I know what you meant but sexually deviant behavior is not gender specific. Three famous cases regarding teachers comes to mind. All three teachers, female with male students. One resulting in the death of one of the ladies husbands.

FIONA said...

After reading some of the comments from GWoP that had been brought over to the Princess Marie Chantal board, I had to rewatch the part of the episode where Mady was "writhing" around

----

While I did think it was odd that the camera filmed this squirming moment with Mady, the thought of her legs uncrossed never crossed my mind. I did not think it was a "pedophiles" dream shot at all-just that she was acting kindof awkward, and poor kid, just wish that would not take every opportunity to make her seem different, off, naughty, or however you want to put it.

Maybe Jen could have said, "hey sit up and talk to us about this"

And someone from over there said that Mady's underwear was showing...I didn't remember that...so I rewatched it...it was just a silly pantyline! At least that is what I think the pervs are thinking!

Saint said...

nc resident,
I really appreciate your thoughtful post.

I watched the Mady scene, and it didn't bother me. I thought she was just fidgeting. If it is seen by pedophiles out there, I am sure they will see something different, but they see something different in a kid eating cereal on TV.

I have had concerns about this issue, though, with other scenes that were unwise, and I think you've presented that just about as well as anyone can. Thanks. It's a serious issue, and that darned GWOP just makes a joke out of any "concern." I have been really frustrated about it lately. They're awful.

Thank goodness for GDNNOP.

FIONA said...

This morning I read someone on another board (not GWoP) call Mady "Meltdown Mady.

----

A very good reason to either stop showing her melting down, or stop the show all together.

Her parent's should be protecting her and advocating for her.

FIONA said...

NC-you a boy!?! LOL!



I personally cannot ignore what I've seen, and this is not acceptable, in my mind, for the safety of the children. Even though GWOP makes an issue out of some of it, I think we all agree that we would never have our children shown or portrayed in the ways these children have. None of us would post those childhood bath pictures on the internet, why do we accept someone else willing to do the same thing. Stereotypes of behavior, moods, favorites, least favorite, gender roles, whatever somebody sees, all at the expense of innocent children. None of these little ones have a voice or a say in what is being done or how and when they are being filmed.


I agree with this statement! And it would be interesting to know if Jon and Kate had any say in the bathroom, tub, butt crack shots etc...or if while they are filming them, the producer can use whatever they get.

merryway said...

Guin, you're right that Jon has clammed up before. It seemed last night that it was more automatic. I also agree that Kate is more aware of the kids limitations. I think that Jon can be kind of “man” dumb mostly because of the age of the children. I'm not taking it too seriously either, It was just a day in their life. For me, the enjoyment factor was low in this episode.

NC, I liked your post, I am aware that predators come in both sexes and you make a good point. My point was in regards to who is writing those posts.

Saint said...

Indianprincess,
I suspect you are right about Kate wanting to contribute financially. It's a common lament among SAHM's that they miss making 'their own" money.

Kate seems to be in charge of the management side of their showbiz lives. I am making that assumption based on her using the phone more often! LOL. In other words...I have no idea about that!

Que said...

Three famous cases regarding teachers comes to mind. All three teachers, female with male students.

NC-

I agree with your point that males shouldn't be the only ones singled out a predators. However, these three cases received so much attention is because 1) it is less likely that the person violating a student is a woman and 2)the women involved in the crimes were attractive - made for a much interesting story.

kristin said...

Was just perusing the other site and saw this comment

BeeTee said...
I would like to see them off the air! Why give the producers more material to help "sanitze" their image and keep the show going?
I enjoy this site, but lately it seems to have very similiar topics to those that are on a differt site. Still love reading here, but somehow feels different.

Thoughts anyone?

Anya said...

Kristin, I saw that too. Interesting timing.

The topic may be identical, but the comments couldn't be more different!

I haven't seen anyone *here* suggest that what we want to see is Kate living away from the home (i.e., the kids with no mom). That's a-ok, however. They don't need a mother. Jon will be holding a BBQ and inviting all the relatives who (supposedly) have been out of their lives.

Now, why didn't we think of this gem of an idea?!

Guinevere said...

As a 50 yr old father of two grown children I was however, concerned, when Joel was recently filmed on the NC beach trip. I mentioned also that on the Thanksgiving episode that this was edited by blurring the image out. When they edit things like this it seems to say to me, we made a mistake lets correct it.

Or, this is something that dirty-minded viewers have bitched about online, let's err on the side of caution. I can live without seeing *anyone's* butt-crack (can we come up with a better phrase for that? just about every one I think of is distasteful to me), but ultimately I don't see anything sexual in showing a four-year old boy's.

Editing happens rather often, leading me to believe it is done based on public opinion, or negative reaction.

Okay, but again, it may be the producers covering their butts rather than suddenly realizing that something is inappropriate. I don't think the J&K producers have as twisted minds as some of the viewers, so it can be hard for them to determine what will get those people riled up (two-year old's "boobies"? Really?).

I personally cannot ignore what I've seen, and this is not acceptable, in my mind, for the safety of the children. Even though GWOP makes an issue out of some of it, I think we all agree that we would never have our children shown or portrayed in the ways these children have. None of us would post those childhood bath pictures on the internet, why do we accept someone else willing to do the same thing.

You don't think there are any Youtube videos of two year olds in the bath? I wouldn't know; if so, maybe Youtube doesn't allow them. But again, I see that as a case of being overly cautious in our rather prudish culture; I don't think a little kid in a bath is inherently sexual or inherently private. Such concepts are cultural, anyway - they aren't morality-based.


Merryway, I know what you meant but sexually deviant behavior is not gender specific. Three famous cases regarding teachers comes to mind. All three teachers, female with male students. One resulting in the death of one of the ladies husbands.

As Que pointed out, these cases have gotten so much attention precisely because they are so rare (and because the women involved were considered attractive). I think it important to realize that deviant sexual behavior is not gender-specific, but I would bet the farm that the vast majority of sexual crimes are committed by men.

peanutbutterjellytime said...

Not sure where to post this, but a co-worker of mine emailed me an article in the Honolulu Advertiser about Jon and Kate. The title was "Hapless TV husband deserves his slaps". I didn't like the tone of the article written by a man. JMO.

Gwen said...

peanutbutter--just saw on gwop that that letter was featured. Just another filler for their lack of any kind of real substance. Ditto for the guy who wrote the article.

also noticed that over there, there's a thread on "what show we want to see",similar to here. They must be reading over here and trying to make themselves seem more credible, using the ideas here for over there.

Elizabeth said...

When GWoP first started, I used to read just for entertainment purposes. Now I cant even stomach going there and sifting through multiple posts about pedophiles, Kate's big huge butt, and especially ones making fun of small children for things they cant help.

ThreeFarmers has got to be the icing on the crazy cake, she seems so invested in that website. She is loving the fame that making fun of Hannah Gosselin gets her from her adoring fans, and while she acts all "who, me???" when she responds to her multiple praises, you just know shes sitting at her desk tallying up just how many people "love" her.

Also, if there were one thing just one thing I could change about GWoP, I'd love for them to require that before you criticize Kate for her looks, fat butt, love handles or any other ridiculous claim, you must provide a photo so we can ridicule your appearance as we see fit. Think about it, Sharla, it seems like you've taken some other ideas from this site, why not one more?

aap said...

Guin -

You don't think there are any Youtube videos of two year olds in the bath? I wouldn't know; if so, maybe Youtube doesn't allow them. But again, I see that as a case of being overly cautious in our rather prudish culture; I don't think a little kid in a bath is inherently sexual or inherently private.

I have to say that I really don't think this is just the mindset of GWOP. I frequent a scrapbook site called Two Peas in a Bucket, and you wouldn't believe some of the photos people post on that site. The pictures are generally innocent in nature. However, there is an urban myth that pedophiles troll those types of web sites looking for naked pictures of children so anyone who posts a naked baby in the bath tub pics is asked to take it down. In addition to the picture, some people list part of their name and the town they reside in. Unfortunately, in this day and age, I think we do need to err on the side of caution.

Saint said...

They must be reading over here and trying to make themselves seem more credible, using the ideas here for over there.

You are right, they are using post ideas! I am glad to see GWOP trying to soften its image. There is a long way to go, but with baby steps, going forward, they, too, can be decent human beings with something good and important to say. I have noticed these three things this week, all of them positive:

1. One of their mods, Sharla?, went through and deleted comments calling the camera man a pedophile. Good for Sharla (or the other mod.) Maybe next time, their commenters won't be so inclined to sexualize the children. (Fingers crossed!)

2. Three Farmers got some new kid gloves for Christmas. Her recap is turned way down on the nasty this week. It's as if her pen is running out of ink! Mady comes through the recap almost unscathed. Only one dig at Hannah! Yes, I know, she still sees the Gosselin children as the saddest kids in America, and she is personally offended by Kate's presence on the program, but still, that recap could have been a lot worse. Some of her brighter fans noticed and remarked that it wasn't funny, just sad.

3. Borrowing post ideas from GDNNOP! Excellent idea! How better than to become angelic than to imitate the angels? :)

Gumby1 said...

Gwen - good point. My mother always said “the highest form of flattery is imitation”

Saint - I am also glad the Other Site is softening.

I can’t find their famous right margin fun- Gosselin Stalkings, uh, Sightings.Or Questions/Answers.

The winning Comments of the Week front page posts are gone and most nomination comments.

Banning Anonymous comments. And, the most encouraging change – some semi-reasonable, intelligent posts get through. Probably to show all those Sheeple SEE! WE ALLOW ALL COMMENTS! Damage Control! Wait, where did I learn that expression? Hmmmm

Saint, as a newbie poster, I’d like to say that I enjoy your posts/comments. It’s hard to articulate, but I’ll try.

You’re insightful and tactful. It’s been discussed that reading comments can be misunderstood because a verbal conversation has inflection/expressions.

Your writings possess that verbal, no misunderstanding quality. So, thanks!

My next goal is to learn how to include bolded comments in my responses!

indianprincess said...

I just noticed this Open Discussion is Wednesday January 1, 2020. Cool!

Kristi said...

Gumby--I dont' think GWOP is softening. They're still positng ad nauseum hateful, mean comments about Jon, Kate, Mady, and some of the tups.

Sure, they stole a thread from here, but there is still major snarking over there, jealousy galore, and just an inhuman stance in general. I still don't know how those women (and men) can live with themselves. I agree with the poster who said they should look at themselves before calling Kate fat or any other name like that. (which, I think Kate looks fantastic.)

And, I don't care how much they say it, they still don't allow all comments. I responded to a glaring misconception, and my post wasn't accepted. No, I did not mention the words "jeaulous","hate", "get a life" nor did I mention any of the mods names. Just a factual answer from my trained experience.

I don't think GWOP is the voice of the majority of people who don't like Jon & Kate. But, I do think that Jon and Kate do not read any of the hate blogs or hateful comments. They are successfully working on different projects and independent careers. They are smart as they know that one day, they will pull the plug.

Meanwhile, GWOP is stuck in the rut of dissecting every arm movement and word of old episodes of the show. I find GWOP to be synonymous with a flesh-eating wound. Eventually, it'll devour itself.

Oh, and by the way, "Anonymous" is still being posted. Or, maybe they think it's cute to post as Anonymous says

Saint said...

Gumby1,
FYI if you haven't found it yet, the HTML tags can be found here. Scroll down to the HTML Tags Chart to bold text. Then try the blue preview button below, to see if you're doing it right.

Anya said...

Gumby1, Nina used to have something flagged that walked you through comments. It's pretty easy though it's hard to show you because if I type the coding you won't see it!

To bold:

Begin bracket (bracket above the comma)
B
Close bracket (bracket above the period)

To end bolding:

Begin bracket
/
B
Close bracket

I don't know if that makes sense! :-)

Anya said...

Kristi, unfortunately, I agree with you. It appears there might have been re-thinking of the pedophile angle they were working earlier this week, but the comments over there are still nasty, mean and jealous to the core.

Leopards don't change their spots that quickly. If the majority of posters thought it was hilarious that Hannah get lice 3-4 weeks ago, why would they change their views now?

I think it's more a case of damage control. Yes, I get to use the word against them! Ha. I think they probably realized a few of the comments went a bit too far this week.

Well, that's every day from my perspective, but clearly others see it differently.

Saint said...

Actually, Anya and Kristi,
I think GWOP is softening only a very little. In my line of work, I sometimes find it useful to reward tiny bits of progress in the right direction.

Thank heavens Sharla reconsidered leaving that pedophile stuff up.

She also has a post now on the front page that says,

Please Note
If you want your comments to go through, please do not include comments to or references to the blog owners, moderators, or admins. They are not appropriate in comments. If you want to say something to us, email is the proper form. Thanks!
Posted by Sharla on 12/10/2008 0 comments


So the rule is, when you criticize Jon and Kate feel free to have a go at the kids, but do not criticize poor little Sharla!
Yes, dear.

A Mom-ynous said...

Off but on topic

In my latest issue of Runner's World, they have a write up on a couple who has sextuplets and as they got through their first year of raising them, they were also both able to train for the same marathon and run it before the sextuplets 1st birthday.

Now I have trained for a marathon and did a half-full in the same weekend by the time my son was 9 months old...and that was tough.

I can't imagine it with sextuplets.

And their times (in my mind) were excellent--the mom finished first I believe (in under 4 hours!)

The dad's niece babysat the sextuplets for their training runs.

So it isn't uncommon after all for parents of sextuplets to have some personal time away from the babes for personal growth/meditation or whatever.

Kate does spas--they train for marathons.

I like to do both. Ha ha!!!

(Note--when I trained--my long run days had me away from my baby for hours and hours at a time--I'm slow after all! And I breastfed the entire time--and had a pit stop during the full where I met hubby with the baby and nursed (since I can't pump and run). My legs hated that stop! But I couldn't not nurse for 7 hours straight...actually longer since I went to the starting line at 4am, so it would have been 11 hours. Ouch!

Saint said...

Here's the Runner's World article about the runners with sextuplets.

AMom-ynous, I admire you!

Lori said...

Elizabeth said..Also, if there were one thing just one thing I could change about GWoP, I'd love for them to require that before you criticize Kate for her looks, fat butt, love handles or any other ridiculous claim, you must provide a photo so we can ridicule your appearance as we see fit. Think about it, Sharla, it seems like you've taken some other ideas from this site, why not one more?

December 10, 2008 9:19 PM
_______________________

I am right there with you Elzabeth!

AMEN!

Lizabeth said...

Joel McHale on The Soup just had a blip about J & K-- they showed part of the interview with them at the end of the "Mommy for a day" episode where Jon puts his foot in his mouth and Kate catches him. I love The Soup and thought it was hilarious- he was so over the top saying Kate shreds Jon a new one every time the wind changes, etc. Gotta love satire, eh??

(All this to say I still love the show-- even more now that its on The Soup's radar so that more people hear about it!! Imitation really is the most sincere form of flattery :). )

happymama said...

I also saw Jon and Kate on The Soup. That Joel McHale, he really tells it like it is.

I think that look that Kate gave Jon, was the same as a slap. If looks could kill, Jon would be dead.

ChinaMomof4 said...

Can you imagine the reaction at GWOP if Kate called her children "angry little horrors" (which is a nasty thing to say about anyone)? But it's okay for GWoP to call the children names. Hypocrites!

ChinaMomof4 said...

Another difference between the Roloffs and the Gosselins is that the Roloff children are older and have more of a say in being filmed. They are more mature and not doing things on camera that will embarrass them in the future.

Missthang said...

Hey everyone... I was just over on GWOP and there is a comment under the name of KATE. I am new to this, does Kate Gosselin comment on GWOP? Its under the Gosselins Funny Christmas post. She states she does not think the post is funny. I did not view the video yet, so I am not sure what its about. If it is KATE.. U go girl! :-)

Guinevere said...

Hey everyone... I was just over on GWOP and there is a comment under the name of KATE. I am new to this, does Kate Gosselin comment on GWOP? Its under the Gosselins Funny Christmas post. She states she does not think the post is funny. I did not view the video yet, so I am not sure what its about. If it is KATE.. U go girl! :-)

Heh, I am pretty sure that with eight kids, a tv show, and the various other irons Kate Gosselin has in the fire, she has better things to do with her time than post on GWoP. Would that this were true for some other folks...

michelle said...

The Soup segment is very funny. Poor Jon. I wonder if other men feel bad for him? ( :

michelle said...

What happened to the Soup video? I wanted to show it to my friend.

Nina Bell said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpmTK43KSko

Nina Bell said...

Michelle

I put it back up at the very bottom

lisa said...

What really bothers me about J&K is that I don't understand why they are not happy with simple things anymore. What kind of people need to have material things to make them feel good. It seems to me that enough is never enough for them. J&K should have been happy with 8 healthy kdis, food on the table and a roof over their heads. Who cares if every single piece of clothing doesn't match. Will J&K really ever be happy? It just shows what kind of people they are. Materialistic.

Guinevere said...

What really bothers me about J&K is that I don't understand why they are not happy with simple things anymore. What kind of people need to have material things to make them feel good. It seems to me that enough is never enough for them. J&K should have been happy with 8 healthy kdis, food on the table and a roof over their heads. Who cares if every single piece of clothing doesn't match. Will J&K really ever be happy? It just shows what kind of people they are. Materialistic.

I don't know how you would know that J&K aren't happy? I don't think the steps they've taken towards material success are a quest for happiness, anyway - I think they want security and financial stability for their kids. I don't begrudge them wanting or having nice things. I also don't think they are excessively materialistic. They don't lead a spartan existence, obviously. But I haven't see evidence that they lead a particularly lavish one, either. I haven't seen them replace their used van, for instance, with some $50K mega-SUV.

I guess I don't understand feeling that you have the right to determine what totaly strangers should be happy or satisfied with, either.