Saturday, January 3, 2009

J&K, Change and Product Placement



There have been many complaints about how Jon and Kate Gosselin are no longer relatable as their fame (and presumably their income) has grown. Fiona sent in the following post recently:

“Has the reality of Jon and Kate Plus 8 changed? Of course it has! In the beginning, we saw Jon and Kate struggling financially and emotionally from the daily stresses of raising 6 babies and 2 toddlers. It was all about feeding, diapering, napping, crying and the logistics surrounding taking care of the family.

It seemed believable, and to many, it was relatable.

However, as the show gained popularity, the Gosselin family has found a niche in advertising, and it seems that Jon and Kate Plus 8 have found a lucrative way to provide for the family.

Perhaps it is time to view this reality show in a different way. We can tune in to learn about interesting vacation venues, see the latest clothing styles and learn all about the latest toy or tech item.

I for one don't see this show about raising a family anymore-they have all become little product endorsers!”

In some ways, I find these types of comments hard to understand. I’m not sure how relatable parents of sextuplets ever were to the average viewer. Maybe people thought they understood what J&K were going through, if they themselves had raised children. But I don’t think anyone who has ever commented on this blog has had to raise six at once. It’s a very different experience, I would imagine. Also, I think that the show is still, to a degree, about dealing with the stresses of having sextuplets, and about parenting a large family. Some of the things Fiona mentions – feeding, diapering, napping – are things the Gosselins are through with simply because the sextuplets are older, not because they’ve become more famous.

So I’ve struggled to understand the complaints about relatability and the changes in the Gosselins’ circumstances. From one perspective, I can understand it. It’s hard when you like a show and it changes. In some ways maybe it’s harder with a reality show; maybe viewers are more invested in the people they watch because they are real people, not characters.
But I do think when viewers become angry about changes, they need to take a step back and evaluate their investment in the show. No matter how much you once liked it, if it’s not working for you anymore, the obvious solution is to stop watching. There are plenty of things on television.

On the issue of product placement – I have said before that I actually prefer it to be fairly transparent. That way I don’t feel like I’m being “tricked” or subliminally encouraged to try a product. Perhaps because Jon and Kate aren’t trained actors, or perhaps just because of the way the sequences are usually set up, the toy product placement, in particular, is incredibly obvious. The segments where the Gosselin kids try out a new toy and the parents talk about how great it is and how much the kids like it stand out so much they seem closer to commercials than parts of the show.

It’s not like I love the advertising, or wouldn’t rather watch a cute moment between the kids than talk about how easy such-and-such video game is to play. It just doesn’t bother me that much. Talking about the product placement has made me aware of how ubiquitous it is in television and movies. I saw Tropic Thunder on DVD last week – it was full of product placement. I saw Gran Torino in the theater a week ago and that, too, had a fair amount of product placement (drink Pabst Blue Ribbon!). Somehow, it feels a little sleazier in a serious film than it does in a silly film, but my point is, it is everywhere. We may not like it, but we should at least acknowledge the Jon and Kate Plus Eight are not unique in featuring product placement, and the fact that the show does have advertising in it is not just another sign of how very greedy Kate Gosselin is. I would venture to guess that the income from the advertising goes to the show, not into J&K’s pockets. I mean, not directly. I don’t think J&K arrange for the sponsors directly either. A lot of this is the producers' doing, obviously.

So what do you think? Are you bothered by product placement? Do you dislike the fact that the Gosselins’ lives have changed? Is it enough to make you want to stop watching?

133 comments:

Lizabeth said...

See, the problem is that no matter what Jon and Kate do, they are never going to 'win over' some of the negative viewers.

I see product placement as a way for this family to get more money in their bank account (or free stuff they would spend thousands on a year) while giving good advertising to the company. I would imagine the Grand Wailea gained thousands more potential customers by being on J & K than they would have by taking double the money they spent hosting this family and putting it into a commercial. Thats why this works-- its a mutually beneficial way to increase money without having the kids on the show.

Just like all the extra work Kate is doing lately with their book and her travelling, I think anything that gives them more money and does not force the kids back into a 4 day a week filming schedule is good. They can afford to scale back production (even taking an entire month off!) because of these extra ways they make money.

themrs said...

i'm kind of on the fence about this one. as far as Kate traveling and doing endorsements herself, i'm all for that. it's income she's making without involving the kids. where the show is concerned, i could do with less of the obvious "commercials", mainly because they seem so awkward. i think what first attracted me to the show was the relatability (sp?) although i certainly don't have sextuplets, i have four young children and do full time day care for two other young children. so watching another mom handle the every day logistics of lots of little ones was familiar to me. i laughed at seeing her in her sweats with no makeup cleaning up spills on the carpet because that mirrors my life! i think as they move farther away from that and the show becomes more about lavish vacations, i find myself more disinterested. it seems more about the "destination" than the kids, which is what i originally liked about the show. that being said, i see the benefit of not having the cameras in the house so often. yep, i'm definitely on the fence :)

merryway said...

I don't mind the product placement like household stuff, etc. I was aware of it in film but the last time we discussed this I learned it had always been done on television. I always thought of the sponsors as only being the commercials. It's the in-show toy ads that annoy me, they interrupt the flow and are obvious. Plus, we're only seeing 22 min and so much of that is J&K on the couch. So, I feel cheated with another in-show ad. I do think it's a smart way for them to make $s, especially not knowing how long the show will last. Has anyone else ever thought about how little of the children we are actually shown? J&K on the couch is at least 1/3 of the televised time so maybe about 14 – 15 minutes are the actual family shots. That's my simple equation anyway.

It doesn't make me want to stop watching. I much as I think they should end the show, I will miss it. It's always a hit a miss for me on the some of the shows. Some of them I never care to see again (I dislike both of the 4th of July episodes) or am bored, others I think are so fun and are great shows.

FIONA said...

I think my point was the original premise of a struggling family has changed...diapers are gone yes, but they are not an average family anymore...or really ever where. But that is what they wanted us to believe.

The way they live now, and at this moment I am not criticizing, most of the things we have seen them do lately are far from average.

The show has come full circle and is now about a family with multiples who got a TV gig, became lucrative spokespeople for various venues and are now very financially secure.

I know this is called a reality show, and at one point I think it was. And perhaps it still is. However, everything they do or wear or speak about is an endorsement. How is that reality to me as a viewer?

Saint said...

Well, I think that Fiona is right...there has been a big change from the original documentaries to the present. They are endorsing products/places a lot more.

I agree with TheMrs, I guess, because I am on the fence, too. I definitely agree with her about the "in show" commercials. I do not object on any ethical grounds. But they are awkward to me, too.

I could relate to Jon and Kate in the past mostly in this way: they visited a lot of local attractions I took my kids to: Sesame Place, Dutch Wonderland, Crayola, the Kempton Railroad. I think that was something I enjoyed, but don't see anymore. Not a big deal.

The change I appreciate most is the better editing. I think they've struck a better balance this season between "the good and the bad."

Daisy said...

I've watched the show from the first special. I didn't watch because I could relate to them, I watched because I think the kids are adorable.

IMO the show has changed because the Gosselins reality has changed. They started out as average people, as average as you can be with 8 kids under 6, and because of the show have gained benefits and their quality of life has improved.

The advertisements and product placements don't bother me because without them there would be no show. Seeing the kids playing with the toys is fine with me. I loved when Joel was washing the doll in the washing machine in the Rose Cottage.

If the kids were doing product placement for Black & Decker tools or beer commercials, that might bother me. But playing with toys or drinking juice or getting their hair combed, those are all things they would do anyway.

nc resident said...

Fiona said:
But that is what they wanted us to believe.

For me that has been the issue since I did some reading. I don't begrudge them a living, show, book deal. I personally feel the general perception of the Gosselins by outsiders is that they are an average middle classed family. That is not entirely accurate, and something they are less than willing to dispell. Face it Tom Cruise can't sell layaway, or coupon clipping. The question remains can Kate Gosselin sell it when we see the new house? IMO it is going to be a tough sell.

Perhaps it is time to view this reality show in a different way.

Another option might be for J&K to quit telling us how hard this job (their life) is and that it isn't reality anymore.

I would imagine the Grand Wailea gained thousands

In todays economic climate I don't think this is gonna "pan out" like they thought. How many can afford to vacation like this?

But I don’t think anyone who has ever commented on this blog has had to raise six at once.

You would also have to agree that without the show that would have been alot more difficult, and that contrary to the image the show portrays, they had tons of help. I venture to say most people here or anywhere could raise 6 actually 8 with the support they have had.

But I do think when viewers become angry about changes, they need to take a step back and evaluate their investment in the show.

I wonder what flack a person might receive if they turned that staement back to a die hard defender of J&K. Is it possible that J&K are not deserving of the investment spent defending their actions.

indianprincess said...

I see no problems how successful Jon and Kate are getting weathly with there show and I expected it. I would be more angry and would stop watching the show if they stayed with we're still poor and look how we're still stuggling with our lives. That to me is fake but they are not doing this. They are showing us viewers doing the show they are not having to worry finacially anymore.

I do believe Jon and Kate need to protect the older children more. The bad press surrounding Mady as of late is harmful for her in the long run. I think Jon and Kate should seriously think about stopping.

I think writing books and picture books in the future showing updates on the family would be better than doing show updates. At least, the children will have their privacy without camera's and the true fans can have there yearly updates with pictures. JMO

Kelley said...

I've always liked Product Placement over commercials. I think commercials are stupid, and in scripted tv, I love looking for the placed products, it's like "Where's Waldo".

When the West Wing was on, I used to laugh at the coffee cup rotation, Starbucks, Tully's Peete's repeat.

Product placement sells product and it's much less distracting than blurred out images.

What I find dumb about the J&K product placemet is the whole "Talking about it casually" part. Just show the sign-age of the resorts thank them once and it's done, and it's not like I didn't recognise the game system from the commerical that was on just before the segment. And I'm not even going to mention the "The Tale of Desperaux*sp"

Florida Mom said...

The show is going to run its course eventually, so I guess it makes sense for them to cash in while they can. The Despereaux placement was kind of odd.

The show has definitely changed. Any show you watch changes over time. Few maintain the unique qualities that drew you in at the beginning.

I hope the family can make the most of this earning opportunity, and plan for their futures.

I hope it becomes a distant, overall pleasant memory for the kids.

SamanthaNC said...

Frankly I would be ticked at TLC if their life hadn't changed. They should be financialy better off than when they began. The fact of the matter is that product placement makes money. TLC isnt in the business of offering free entertainment, and reality or no- product placement is nothing new. I don't enjoy the in show product endorsements bc as has been mentioned already- it seems so akward! I'm sure they do love the products but it comes off as unatural, I would rather just see the kids playing wth the item instead. The thing that made them relatable to me in the beginning was the fact that they are a real family- and they still are a real family, reardless of trips, bank accounts, new homes etc.

Que said...

Actually, I thought TLC was in the business of promoting shows that have more of a "freak show" quality. I missed the product placements in the 1 ton mom show.

FIONA said...

I honestly don't know if TLC makes money when the Gosselin's are pitching Wii...or Gymboree.

My thought would be it is the G's who are profiting and not TLC.

Same with The Canyons Resort, Grand Walilea...

Nina Bell said...

I agree that Jon and Kate Plus 8 is not any different than any other show. Change is inevitable. I don't always like it but I know that I have to accept it.

I absolutely love ER. Now this really doesn't have to do with product placement but that show sure has changed. I still watch it and I like it but I am constantly amazed by how they come up with these beyond believable story lines every week. Sadly this is the last season but that is probably a good thing.

I agree with Guin:

But I do think when viewers become angry about changes, they need to take a step back and evaluate their investment in the show. No matter how much you once liked it, if it’s not working for you anymore, the obvious solution is to stop watching. There are plenty of things on television.

I still enjoy ER so I still watch. Another season, I might have needed to turn the channel.

We did just recently rediscover the 1981 series, St. Elsewhere. No one gets blown up on a daily basis, no helicopters fall from the sky into the hospital. I forgot how good this series and Hill Street Blues was.

There are always other options.

CincyMom said...

I think some of the fence-sitters (like me) are feeling this way because there are several issues with the product placement.

It does make the show awkward and different from the one we probably all fell in love with. When you're invested in something, it is disappointing when it changes. Anyone notice the new Tropicana labels on OJ cartons? : )

But like Guinevere said, of course we can stop watching. But I think that's why we fence sitters are sad. We like watching the family, but might not like the way the show changed. Catch-22 kind of?

And I do believe J&K are paid for it. I don't think they'd (or many people) let TLC tell them they have to add that in without some kind of compensation (not a knock on them).

Also--I don't think Kate's travel schedule relaxes the load for filming. They are probably still contracted to produce a certain amount of shows. They can't just "take a month off" and still have footage for new shows. I DO think she could become a public speaker and Jon could do whatever and they wouldn't have to do the show down the road when it would eventually get canceled. But I don't think they can just sit down after dinner and say they're off work next month since Kate is speaking somewhere and there's some extra money. Figure 8 still has to provide to TLC.
Sorry this isn't very concise.

merryway said...

Nina, St.Elsewhere was the greatest show of all time. My friends and family all know this is true because I have told them repeatedly. When they brought the show back to tvland in the 90's it was my mission to tape every show in order. Since they never put it out dvd, I'm so glad. If I have project going I sometimes take them out and pop them in, watched the first season on the computer with the better quality than the vhs. Amazing actors with awesome guests.

Saint said...

Well,
I was going to chime in with a cheer for St.Elsewhere, I loved, loved, loved it, but I see merryway loved it even more! :)

Hills St. Blues, too. I liked LA Law as well.

indianprincess said...

St. Elsewhere was a great show. I'm starting to show my age here: this was the only adult show my parents let me watch as a kid. I really liked Howie Mandel because he was Canadian.

Anya said...

Daisy said..."I've watched the show from the first special. I didn't watch because I could relate to them, I watched because I think the kids are adorable."

That pretty much sums up my feelings and I guess that is why the changes in the show haven't bothered me much. The kids are still cute - not 2 1/2 year-old cute, but 4 1/2 year-old cute. They are much more verbal now and I enjoy hearing what they have to say.

The product placement doesn't really rankle me either, but I can *understand* it - we all have our little pet peeves (I know I do).

themrs said..."i think what first attracted me to the show was the relatability (sp?) although i certainly don't have sextuplets, i have four young children and do full time day care for two other young children. so watching another mom handle the every day logistics of lots of little ones was familiar to me. i laughed at seeing her in her sweats with no makeup cleaning up spills on the carpet because that mirrors my life! i think as they move farther away from that and the show becomes more about lavish vacations, i find myself more disinterested."

TheMrs - thanks for sharing your thoughts. I can totally understand and appreciate this POV even though it doesn't mirror my own experience. I know there are others that feel the same way.

nc resident said... "Is it possible that J&K are not deserving of the investment spent defending their actions."

I don't know if J&K are "deserving" or not and I don't really concern myself with that question to be honest. My "investment" is pretty small compared to the rest of my world. And I think the big difference between posters like me and those on the other side of the divide (think GWoP) is both the show and talking about the show (which sometimes involves defending J&K against what I consider unfair accusations) is entertaining and enjoyable for me. It doesn't stress me out. Now compare that to some posts you see on GWoP or the mini-hate sites where the posters are just seething with rage. Sorry, but that is not a healthy "hobby" IMO.

Nina, "St. Elsewhere." You took me back! I was pretty young when that was on, but I think watched nearly every episode. I liked your example of "ER" too.

Linda said...

Actually, one could argue that the One Ton Mum TLC show was an endorsement/infomercial for the Renaissance Hospital where the bariatric surgery was performed.

Even though Renee Williams had a fatal heart attack, the spokesperson at the hospital acknowledged that other super morbidly obese individuals had contacted them for surgery.

scarfoot said...

I've posted a very similar comment to this before, but I'm going to restate it!

Thanks to this show, and all the product placement controversy, I have become significantly aware of product placement in many, many other places. I can't believe how often it happens, and I never noticed. Even on LPBW. You see the kids out in the yard, and then suddenly, the camera points at "Polaris" on their mule golf cart thingie (Do you like my technical term?). Even on a show that is ONLY about being rich and greedy, "The Real Housewives of Orange County" there is product placement. People don't seemed to be too ruffled about that, and those people have way more money than the Gosselins.

The product placement doesn't bother me too much. I never think "Gee, I need to go buy whatever food product Kate is using!" And the horrible little blurbs that Jon and Kate give (video games, etc) are laughable at best. They are not good at it. Those do take up time on the episode that I wish they wouldn't.

As far as relating to the show, I'm a single gal with no children. I have nothing in common with the Gosselins, but I still like the show. It sounds extreme, but I had a very, very busy and horrible year last year. There were nights that I came home and crashed on the couch and those children really brightened my night. It was just what I needed - light hearted, sweet kids.

I'll be sad when the show is over, but I think it is running its course.

Linda said...

I'm curious about other posters opinions on this:

Did you think that J&K were an average middle class family once the tv series started?

Anya said...

Linda said..."Did you think that J&K were an average middle class family once the tv series started?"

Interesting question. Are you referring to the time just after the show aired? Obviously, there is nothing typical or normal about having sextuplets. And once someone has been on t.v. (even a cable show), they have thrown out privacy and normalness - at least for the period of time the show airs. They will be recognized in malls and people will feel they know them (because they have seen them on t.v.).

There may have been an illusion of commonness that never really was there.

Let's remember all the TLC shows have some hook to get viewers to turn in. Sadly, most of us wouldn't make it past the initial audition stage! The Roloffs, Duggars and Gosselins all have very unique circumstances. I think we tune in not just to see the commonplace, but that which is somewhat different from our day-to-day lives....

Linda said...

Once the Gs got the tv series, I presumed that they were being compensated for their participation.

Once J&K8 became more popular on TLC, I presumed that they were being compensated more handsomely.

rain88 said...

Did you think that J&K were an average middle class family once the tv series started?
I thought they were an average American family. I figured they were compensated but the money they received supplemented their income to help them get by. It changed for me when Jon quit his job.

Linda said...

ncresident:

Can you explain something? When you wrote:

I personally feel the general perception of the Gosselins by outsiders is that they are an average middle classed family. That is not entirely accurate, and something they are less than willing to dispell.

Does that mean that you saw them as an average middle class family at first?

I saw them as a young couple with lots of kids who were struggling to make ends meet when they did the first documentary ... Surviving Septuplets and Twins, but the moment that I saw that they had gotten a series I presumed that their financial status had changed.

Anya said...

Linda said..."I saw them as a young couple with lots of kids who were struggling to make ends meet when they did the first documentary"

Linda, I agree. I didn't watch from the very beginning, but after viewing the earlier episodes and reading "Multiple Blessings" I would say they were teetering in the middle class world, especially after Jon's job loss and the arrival of the sextuplets. I think that would stretch a lot of us who consider ourselves solidly middle class to the breaking point....

merryway said...

Linda, I had never heard of it before this year, so I got it all once and missed the occurrence of events. When I did start watching it I did think they were average, especially because their house seemed so sparse. Other than it being a nice a house it didn't show anything that might show they were well-off. I remember Kate talking about cleaning the floor and making lunch. I interpreted the way show was filmed as low-budget documentary, so I just assumed they weren't making much. It didn't seem like there were many people involved. It took me a while to figure out that they were already well-known. It never occurred to me that their compensation had already and will continue to change their lives. Besides the kids, I was drawn to the show because Kate was a mom and I liked the idea of a real mom on tv.

indianprincess said...

Linda to answer your question. For me I watched the first special when they were moving to the 4000sq house and I thought they had money then. Who can afford that size of house on an average middle class family income with 10 people to feed and with bills to pay on top of a mortage(sp). Watching the special I just figured they already had money but then again I don't know what is considered the average middle class.

Theresa said...

Fiona--yes, TLC makes money when WII and Gymobree advertize....they bought the sponsorship. Thus, product placement. The resorts and wherever they go (and stay for free) all have had bought time on the show. They buy the time, the show then exposes the resort/Disney/Grand Walilea, etc by showing the family's stay at the respective place. It is increased traffic for these places when it is shown on J&K +8 or any other show.

The only product placeement I did find misplaced was the Tales of Despereaux. But, when Unviersal drops a little chunk of change into TLC's pocket, the producers will find a way to make it work for Universal and stick it into the show. I did think it was neat that the kids knew who/what Despereaux was all about.

As I've stated before, I do believe change is inevitable and glad it happened with this family. Change happens, people change and adapt to their circumstances. They grow in many ways.

I am glad their financial status changed. Monetary change needed to happen to raise these kids. It would be a shame if they were still struggling and I don't think anyone wants to see that. Besides, the kids are growing up and they are changing. Life is easier (they don't have to worry about where the money for their electric bill is coming from)and does help the life changes the kids are going thru by just growing up (whether it be for private schools, etc).

Guinevere said...

Argh. Wrote long post, responding to numerous comments. Got error message. Will try again tomorrow.

Nina Bell said...

I know this is called a reality show, and at one point I think it was. And perhaps it still is. However, everything they do or wear or speak about is an endorsement. How is that reality to me as a viewer?

I understand your frustration but as a viewer, in my mind, it would be time to make a decision.

nc resident said...

Does that mean that you saw them as an average middle class family at first?

In the beginning they were struggling, they had help and needed help, no problems there.

Today as merryway, said she felt. TLC even in written statement wants us to believe the show allows Kate to be a SAHM. Then Kate says she clips coupons, and uses layaway, it's her job since Jon works. They both stayed at home when that was said they were not honest. Without the blog world what inpression do you think TLC & J&K want the average viewer have. Do you feel the truck load of items sent to them that were sold recently were done so out of love or people feeling they had a need? If they had to sell these things because they has so much, why not put a disclaimer on the website and ask for people to consider other charities.

By giving us an impression of average that means they still have financial needs that allow people to help them in whatever venue they appear in. As for other celebrities we know when they advertise in commercials, we know what they are paid per film and episode. Most of them do not appear in churches selling pictures for college funds.

Lizabeth said...

I can see why some would have a hard time accepting the changes in Jon and Kate's life. Since I am not married, a SAHM, or mother of any kids (much less multiples) I never felt that connection and thus do not feel any differently towards them now that the show has changed.

Fiona, you posed an interesting question as to how real the show is to the viewer. I love watching reality TV (even those trashy VH1 shows) but I have never felt like the experiences shown *are* real life. Yes, they portray real people, and yes, they are unscripted. But I don't live in a house with 7 strangers in a new town. I do not love a rock star so much I would go on a dating show to meet and make out with him. In fact, as much as I love to travel, there is no one in the world that I would be willing to team up with so that we could go all over in a race to conquer different obstacles.

What I mean is that reality TV is not actually reality for all of us. There is a flaw in the name which notates that people should think these people are just like us, but I assure you those bimbos on Rock of Love get paid per show they are on, and that the shows where money is the prize offer each contestant a paycheck just for being a part of it.

I think that is why I see Jon and Kate plus 8 in a different light-- the term reality is used so loosely and should not indicate you are watching people just like you-- unless you, too, feel the need to get plastic surgery on camera or to try to outwit, outlast, and outplay others.

Rachel said...

I wrote a response to 'Are you serious?' that was similar but I'll post again :-) I'm not angry about the show changes however I do not like to tune in to any non infomercial program only to have it magically turn into an infomercial. I don't care where the family visits--good for them for getting away! Showing hotels or signs or whatever is fine. I just wouldn't like it if during the course of their armchair interview the commentary focused on the wonderful amenities offered by X resort and their wonderful breakfast assortments at the buffet, and the luxuriousness of the sheets. And so I absolutely cringed when Kate and Jon took time to extol the wonderful qualities of the V Smile V Motion or whatever it was called (we're regular vsmile people). It was awkward and painful to watch, and if I hadn't been in such shock to have been suckered in to albeit brief infomercial I would have turned the channel. Thankfully it was over quickly but the memory of it has certainly lingered and now I find myself bracing and waiting for such moments. I don't always enjoy the episodes the first time around because of it but I dvr them and can either rewatch or delete. I really have no problem with random product placement throughout the show, and really liked the original format of the old website where it told you their favorite things and where to buy them (time out spots, dishes, t shirts, lunchboxes). That I actually enjoyed. :-)

Linda said...

Some of what you write I have a hard time understanding.

Like this:

Today as merryway, said she felt. TLC even in written statement wants us to believe the show allows Kate to be a SAHM.

Can you clarify the above?

Then you wrote this:

Then Kate says she clips coupons, and uses layaway, it's her job since Jon works. They both stayed at home when that was said they were not honest.

I don't think it is unreasonable to think that a person who was raised without much financially would continue to clip coupons. Especially when that person is the parent of 8 children. Old habits die hard. I've got a family member whose husband is very financially successful. She clips coupons and looks for sale items whenever she can. Her thought is why should they (the store) get money of her's that they don't have to get.

I know other parents who also believe that it is their responsibility to teach their kids to thrifty ... to teach them to look for ways to spend less money on items so they can save the money for later.

I will say that I think that the constant re-running of episodes in no particular order confuses some people. In the beginning, Jon was an IT analyst and Kate was a former nurse who quit her job to stay at home with the kids.

Now, they've said that the show allows them both to stay home with the kids.

Sure it is confusing, but I don't think it is an indicator of a lack of honesty. I think that it indicates that things, circumstances, and situations change.

You then wrote this:

Without the blog world what inpression do you think TLC & J&K want the average viewer have.

So the blog world is telling us The Truth about J&K?

Do you feel the truck load of items sent to them that were sold recently were done so out of love or people feeling they had a need?

I don't know if we can really know for sure why people gave to them. It could be many reasons:

Love
Generosity
Novelty
Need
Boredom

Just curious, did you ever give to them?

If they had to sell these things because they has so much, why not put a disclaimer on the website and ask for people to consider other charities.

Some of this seems to be a variation of the tired old theory that the Gs are involved in some big scam that involves them bilking innocent people out of their hard earned money.

nc resident said...

Some of this seems to be a variation of the tired old theory that the Gs are involved in some big scam that involves them bilking innocent people out of their hard earned money.

Then what is it exactly. A failure to update their website, as has been previously stated.

So the blog world is telling us The Truth about J&K?

Wasn't the point I was trying to make. Newspaper articles, recent publicity all discussed on the blogs, NOT ON THE SHOW, does slant our opinion of them agreed? An opinion many might not understand or share if they just watched the show.

Just curious, did you ever give to them?

Have you, just curious. but so I do not appear to be evasive, or some snookered giver I have not, nor will I.

I will say that I think that the constant re-running of episodes in no particular order confuses some people.

TLC made a statement after the Peterson segment aired on CNN. Kate made those coupon statements on talk shows in NY. Nothing in the show convinced me of what I'm saying. It was comments directly made by Kate, on the not a book tour, book tour. If thats the case Linda what IT company would allow 3weeks off for vacation, for Jon.

I don't think it is unreasonable to think that a person who was raised without much financially would continue to clip coupons.

With the busy schedule she has and they have had, not to mention the products they purchase (organics) do you honestly believe that? If so that's fine, I don't.

This was your post for me Linda.

Does that mean that you saw them as an average middle class family at first?

I posted back

Today as merryway, said she felt. meaning her January 3, 2009 10:56 PM post.

FIONA said...

Let's remember all the TLC shows have some hook to get viewers to turn in. Sadly, most of us wouldn't make it past the initial audition stage!

-----

Anya,
And we are all so thankful for that! I am so glad I am not a half-ton anything, or have multiples, or hands like tree stumps.

Bless us all.

Linda said...

No - I didn't give to them.

I can barely get my act together enough to buy gifts for my family, extended family, and close friends let alone people on t.v.

So ncresident - if they irk you so much why do you watch the show and blog about them?

FIONA said...

Nina Bell said...
I know this is called a reality show, and at one point I think it was. And perhaps it still is. However, everything they do or wear or speak about is an endorsement. How is that reality to me as a viewer?

I understand your frustration but as a viewer, in my mind, it would be time to make a decision.

January 4, 2009 7:06 AM

---

Oh, I am in it for the long haul. I am hooked and will most likely follow this family as long as they are in the public eye.

The things that annoy me are not enough to raise my BP, throw something at my TV, or write a sponser.

It is still entertainment for me. I hope we are still able to discuss this family years from now, and I truly hope it isn't all bad.

FIONA said...

It really annoys me when on a public discussion blog, someone has to chime in with "why do you watch"...haven't we all been down this road before.

I don't like Jon or Kate-but it is entertainment nonetheless. It is amusment to come to this blog and toss around ideas, and criticisms.

NC Res-you have the same right as anyone else!

FIONA said...

An update from Julie AGAIN on GWOP!

Apparently a rather smart poster is questioning some of the things Julie has told us in the past, specifically, that the G's were moving to NC, had the sponsers lined up and admitting to Jon have the floor plans.

Now she is states it is Jon who must have been lying and how dare anyone try and discredit her!

She ends with, "let's get back to the business at hand in protecting the kids".....OH MY GAWD!!!

This woman is a nut job!!!!

Nina Bell said...

I think that Linda asked a legitimate question in a respectful way. This question is no different than the questions NC Resident has been asking in a respectful way.

nc resident said...

So ncresident - if they irk you so much why do you watch the show and blog about them?

Did my post make you feel I'm irked. I'm exactly like Fiona on this point one that she made on her last post, January 4, 2009 10:19 AM. I guess my question is, not being rude, why do you feel the need to blog about someone you feel so much compassion for? Unless I am mistaken this blog is about the show. I think you personally do not like negative comments about them and thats okay, if this were the J&K love site. Would you rather all comments here were posted in favor or J&K defending everything they have done? If your selling tickets to the J&K Love train express I'm staying at the station.

But to set the record straight what and how I give is not anyones business but mine. Trust me we give. That irked me, and I'm sure others would feel that way as well.

merryway said...

Nc resident said..
Today as merryway, said she felt. TLC even in written statement wants us to believe the show allows Kate to be a SAHM.


I know you said you were referring to my post at 10:56 a.m.. But I still don't know what you're referring to here as I felt. I didn't think the show allowed Kate to be a sahm mom. In fact I think one of the fist I saw she was working as a nurse. When I first started watching, I just thought she was a mom who had a film maker and a camera following her around.

FIONA said...

Nina Bell,

I sometimes get the feeling that NC gets ridden a bit too hard by Linda.

I guess it is none of my business.

What I observe is that Linda does get irked by NC and has stated so in the way that he posts.

I guess I just felt the need to speak out on his behalf.

Linda, if I am wrong, I do apologize.

SamanthaNC said...

I completley understand Linda's question and just as nc resident has the rigt to post here, Linda has the right to ask questions, its up to nc resident how or if he answers.

It may be none of my business but, I have often wondered why people who seem to hate the show and everything about Jon and Kate continnue to watch. I cant imagine putting energy into an entertainment outlet that angers me.

I think Linda's question was a fair one and I do not think there was any malicious intent behind it.

Nina Bell said...

Fiona,

Linda would probably have to answer that. My issue is that NC Resident has stated in the past that he likes to discuss. I get the impression that he enjoys the back and forth, but I could be wrong.

There are people that post here that don't really want a back and forth. They just want to make their statement and move on.

I got the impression that they were respectfully engaging each other in a discussion.

nc resident said...

I should have been clearer Linda and merryway. When I did start watching it I did think they were average, especially because their house seemed so sparse. The question was whether we regarded them as an average family.

This was the part of her post she responded to Linda on or am I confused.

FIONA said...

Good enough....

Theresa said...

Fiona--that's funny..tree stumps. Thanks for the laugh. I saw the promo on that show and thought, "what the???>".

I feel we've been down this road before, but I'll get back in my car and drive down it again:

Who cares if Kate is still clipping coupons? Who cares if Jon is a SAHD? This family is progressing and very niceely.

NC Resident, I get the feeling that you are trying to conjure up any kind of dirt on Kate and Jon by trying to show their "inconsistencies". "Inconcistencies" in what they have said in past shows to now, does not make for a valid argument. You can't pick out something from season to and say "but she says this and blah blah blah". Buddy, it's about two years old. People grow (gosh, how many times have I written that?); cirumstances change and people adapt. That's what Kate and Jon do.

Whether you like Kate or can't stand her, it is not fair to try to surmise their living conditions, their motives, or point out what you perceive to be inconsistencies from old shows til now. And, to accuse them of bilking people takes balls. Whatever love offerings in the beginning, has never been proven now in the present. I am someone who gives the benefit of the doubt. Until I see concrete proven evidence and documents of any of the stuff you're conjuring up NC Res, my tune will change. But, please stop trying to make something out of nothing using words of the old shows.

FIONA said...

Sam,

Do you think anyone of the regular posters on this blog fall into that catagory? I truly don't.

SamanthaNC said...

Fiona-

Without naming names, yes I absolutley do.

nc resident said...

I like the discussion Nina though I wish I was as articulate as Guin aap and others. It might help alot of me trying to get my point across.

I respect everyone here and equally important everyones opinion. I think these kids are absolutely adorable, and that got me hooked. I would fight honestly to stop anyone from verbally or physically abusing them or any child if I could. I think J&K take care of these children and the concept of a 1.5 yr old being expoited, or that they are being abused is far fetched. They are not the J&K we saw several years ago. They have changed. We all change. IMO this change is not a good one.

Linda said...

Fiona,

I'm not saying that ncresident does not have a right to watch or blog about the show.

I'm just asking why ncresident continues to do so when it seems that ncresident finds them to be dishonest, insincere, etc.

You've said Fiona that it is entertainment for you. I think I recall you saying that the kids are cute too.

But I'm curious as to what motivates ncresident.

================

ncresident:

So in the beginning (Like merryway) you thought that they were an average family because their home was so sparse.

(I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm just trying to understand.)

I guess that when they got the tv series I automatically presumed that they were no longer "just getting by."

BTW, I don't find K to be the mom of the year nor do I find J to be dad of the year. Both of them have their faults.

(One of their many: J for needing to be told what to do and K for telling him what to do with such a tone)

FIONA said...

Ok....sorry, gotta butt in again...

Theresa, I don't see anything unfair about NC using statements from prior shows as discussion points. Until Jon and Kate say something to undo those statements then I think they are fair game.

NOT saying that their financial situation has changed seems unfair to me, as that was what they stated was a struggle for them in earlier shows.

Sure, we know they make more money now-but they don't appear to be as upfront about that as they were when they weren't...does that make sense?

Now their website does not have a section anymore for items they need, so clearly they are asking directly for handouts. I fully believe the sponsers are hunting them down now. I don't begrudge them for that, as that is what they have evolved into-a marketing source. It is what it is.

nc resident said...

Buddy, it's about two years old. glad we are buddies, yeah right, but what is two yrs old. The shows I referenced are less than 3 months old.

And, to accuse them of bilking people takes balls. Where did I say that. I simply stated why don't they tell people to stop sending. They sell it anyway. That ain't 2 yrs old either. BTW telling me it takes balls takes balls as well. Tell you what I'll email em ask where to send this years gifts we will see what they say.

FIONA said...

Sam,

If one of those names you are not naming is me, please feel free to say so.

Just for the record, I absolutly feel no hate towards Jon or Kate.

I feel much stronger about Julie, but not hate.

When I read at GWOP I FEEL the hate, and thankfully I have not gotten the feeling here.

Linda said...

BTW Fiona,

No apologies needed. ;-)

Linda said...

ncresident:

They have changed. We all change. IMO this change is not a good one.

Can you explain this more.

FIONA said...

Well, we do know in the past they have taken their story on the road, and have made money from it.

It is not my place to tell people who to give to or not.

However, it doesn't appear that they are doing that anymore.

They have opted out of the smaller churches and are speaking at larger venues. They are paid a set fee and no love offerings.

Haven't heard of them selling pics lately either which I will state that I think that was beyond tacky. I never understood how they could have possibly felt good about that.

Linda said...

Fiona,

I agree with you selling the pictures was kind of tacky but I don't find it to be immoral or criminal.

FIONA said...

May I chime in again? :)

I think there are many people who think that Jon and Kate have overdone it with the TV shows.

I think the family would have been better off-primarily the children, had there only been a special or three and maybe an update every now and then.

Seriously, it can't be healthy for a camera to film your family at least 50% of the time, if not more.

If the parent's want to be on TV, so be it. However, I don't believe that the kids have any choice in the matter. Will there be a price to pay down the road? I believe so. Will it have been worth it to have Mom and or Dad around most of the time, I am going to speculate No.

Jon and Kate had the means to work and support themselves in a modest manner. There is nothing wrong with that.

I absolulty think the G's would have survived without a TV series.

The things that Jon and Kate have acquired as a result of the show, trips, clothing, money and endorsements...they are not necessitys that make a family healthy and whole.

Mary said...

To the original post of Guinn's. I have said it before and I'll say it again. Product Placement is everywhere and has been for as long as I remember. I don't mind it. It's part of the deal. We watch TV, we watch commercials. If it's in the show, then it's in the show. If it's between segments, it's a "commercial". For me, it proves my point that the show does well. Advertisers want their products to be included because they want them to be seen. They wouldn't bother if it wasn't lucrative for them.

As for the other conversations on this thread-even though I don't understand why a person would watch a show that makes them angry or they cannot stand, I think they have an opinion that is valid for conversation. I may not agree with it, but expressing it is what a place like this is all about, correct? I had an opinion that others didn't agree with a while back and even had some really negative things said about me over the issue. Water off a duck's back. I still feel the same way about that issue. So...I have to give the same latitude to those I might not agree with. If they don't like product placement and don't want the
Gosselins or TLC or Figure 8 to make money off of it, that is the way they feel. I don't agree, but respect their right to say it. Once we put words out here for comment though, I think people should expect to be called on things.

Linda said...

Fiona,

I think that you articulated your reasons for being concerned about the show's effect on the kids beautifully.

Linda said...

I do not feel any great compassion for Kate. I'm pretty neutral about her. I'm pretty neutral about Jon too.

I blog about them because I find the hatred that they inspire to be fascinating.

Would I allow cameras into my home to document how our family interacts. Nope.

Linda said...

And to clear up something. When I asked you about whether you gave a gift to the Gs it was to understand if you had given to them and now felt duped.

It was not to question to whom and how much you give.

rain88 said...

Linda, I also find the polarization about this show fascinating.

I don’t see anything here that indicates any posters are full of hatred and anger,just a different perspective on the same TV show.

marci said...

For myself, the changes in what we see happening in the day-to-day lives of the Gosselins over the years they've been filmed are pretty natural...they no longer need long naps or diaper changes and can interact with the "outside" world more when the family goes on outings.

For myself, except for the vacations and a few nicer gadgets around the house, I don't see too many obvious financial benefits shown on the show.

We all know they're making more money, the parents don't have to take a "regular" job, they did a small remodel for the twins and bought new beds for the tups and they're wearing more namebrand clothing.

We'll see what happens when they show the new house, but the Gosselins certainly haven't bothered to spend any money on new furniture at their present house. And, even though I've seen Jon and Kate in newer duds, I've seen them wear them more than once on air and at public appearances...hardly a diva wardrobe.

My point is, we KNOW there's some serious money flowing in, but I'm not seeing them *flaunting* their newfound wealth in the viewers' faces.

Having said that, I'm sure some will feel that a huge, new house will be them flaunting it.

I, however, do not see it that way.

To me, it's just another step in the progression of this family's success. I am neither giddy for them nor annoyed with them for their progress.

When something appears to be different on the show than how it has looked or how it was explained in the past, I just accept it as it is. I even watch the pretty obvious product placement and go, "Okay, I guess there's a new sponsor."

Maybe I'm just more accepting...I don't know. I've enjoyed this family and I enjoy watching the changes in their lives. If I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't watch.

And, yes, I find virtual "rubber neckers" as questionable as the ones on the highway who slow down to get a better look at a car crash scene...what is the use at looking at something you think will be a bloody mess?

nc resident said...

I get the impression that he enjoys the back and forth, but I could be wrong.

Not when it upsets someone else, and to the extent it becomes like this. I like talking about the show, how I see things. I have dificulty with being misquoted then someone else using that misquote against me. Thats rather frustrating, but that is okay.

There are people that post here that don't really want a back and forth. They just want to make their statement and move on.

Let me know which ones, and I'll try to watch that. But, that doesn't seem to be what is going on here. I suspect that if I were to sing J&K praises my post might receive another take.

I don’t see anything here that indicates any posters are full of hatred and anger. Just a different perspective on the same TV show.

Thank you rain personally I see more anger toward someone posting against J&K than I do people being filled with hate against them.

Theresa said...

Fiona saidTheresa, I don't see anything unfair about NC using statements from prior shows as discussion points. Until Jon and Kate say something to undo those statements then I think they are fair game.

NOT saying that their financial situation has changed seems unfair to me, as that was what they stated was a struggle for them in earlier shows.


They HAVE stated that they are in a position now that they can help others. (That's what the whole St. Jude's show was about.) She has stated in articles that they don't have to worry about whether they can pay their electrical bill because they are in a position now where they don't have to worry about that.

If they do an Interview Chair segment and address those concerns, I think you and NC Res would be happy. Maybe that's in the works. But, it does seem unreasonable for them stop and go back in time to say Episode 2 of Season two and address, "oh yeah, our status has changed, so we don't do this anymore".Or even going back three months and addressing and updating. To take the time to address all they've said in the past and set straight for people who are keeping tabs in hopes of catching them in some kind of lie is ridiculous. Remember, they are raising eight kids and filming a show. They don't have time for that pettiness.

Sorry NC Resident, I shouldn't have called you "buddy" (although I like you, as I like everyone here). I was in the heat of the writing moment and it slipped out. My apologies. So, you may have not come right out and said they were bilking people, but your writings indicate that.

I would be interested if you do email them and offer to give a gift where to send it.

nc resident said...

If they had to sell these things because they has so much, why not put a disclaimer on the website and ask for people to consider other charities.

This was a response I made in regards to things the Gosselins have been given. I do not want to belabor a point but where do you or Linda arrive at this being construed as bilking.

What follows was Lindas' response:

Some of this seems to be a variation of the tired old theory that the Gs are involved in some big scam that involves them bilking innocent people out of their hard earned money.

This post does have that wording and assumption. Something you continued on without reading what my original post was.

If they do an Interview Chair segment and address those concerns, I think you and NC Res would be happy.

I would, if they were to answer questions other than the same ones we see in almost every interview. Or if someone else asked them and they answered instead of declining to answer. I'm willing to bet that isn't going to happen, however.

Or even going back three months and addressing and updating. My point is comments they made as recently as three months ago don't jive with what was happening at the same time. I do not take comments from Season 1 Episode 5 and apply it to a comment made today, to catch them in a lie.

Saint said...

I would love to hear about that email, too, NC Res. Interesting.

I thought of Jon and Kate as middle class when they started, (except with sextuplets.) I believed that Jon was supporting the family, and I know that what Kate described...Jon worked, Kate was a SAHM who felt obligated to watch the family purse by clipping coupons...sounded sincere. I believe that when she said it, it was true. Jon did work, and Kate was a SAHM. Did Kate say something recently about Jon going to work now? I don't understand that point. I'm just confused, though, and asking, not challenging.

By the way, I don't think they are middle class now. They are wealthy now. I am happy about that.

I doubt very much I would have chosen that way to wealth either. I agree that there has been too much of those kids shown on TV, but I absolutely see them addressing the issue this season. The kids just haven't been in the public eye as much...even on the show.

marci said...

Okay...in defense of Linda's using the word "bilking"....yes, I think that's her own descriptive word in her making her point....one of many words that could be and have been used when people complain about how the Gosselin's have received charitable gifts and what they've done with said gifts or how they have given charitable gifts.

NC,

You may not like the word "bilking" being tied to your earlier post if that was not your meaning, but, honestly, I believe Linda was speaking about the fact that, while having your views is perfectly fine and respected, it's not *news*, i.e., yet another poster seemingly quite determined to see scamming, lies and inconsistencies where, perhaps, there are none.

And I think she's perfectly within her right to label how she views the anti-Gosselin scamming theories as SHE sees fit, as you are within your right to try and create them from what you see.

nc resident said...

I believe that when she said it, it was true. Jon did work, and Kate was a SAHM. Did Kate say something recently about Jon going to work now? That statement I agree was true. Recently on a morning show, I posted a youtube link in another thread, she discussed cutting coupons because Jon was working and she says that is continued. She also discusses layaway where Mady or Cara can be heard to say "we what"? That comment could lead viewers to assume she cuts coupons why, because Jon is working and she is a SAHM. Well he wasn't working in IT anymore, this statement and TLC's statement, after the Petersen CNN newscast were misleading. Why did they not say the show allowed both to stay at home, I would have accepted that. I think TLC knows that if J&K are well off enough to both stay at home they cannot sell layaway or coupon cutting. Thats just my opinion.

SamanthaNC said...

Sam,

If one of those names you are not naming is me, please feel free to say so.


Fiona-

You specifically asked me a question- I gave you an honest answer. I wasn't referencing you and didn't refer to you in any manner.

nc resident said...

And I think she's perfectly within her right to label how she views the anti-Gosselin scamming theories as SHE sees fit, as you are within your right to try and create them from what you see. It is not okay for me to write something, someone else to make an assumption about that comment and a third party to assign that assumption as my comment. BTW does Linda need defending? I was however able to pick up from your post that the anti-Gosselins theories are created.

But I'm curious as to what motivates ncresident. Guinevere said that she defended them because she liked them and felt they, paraphrased, caught enough crap. Why do I have to have any more motivation than I do not see things that way.

Can you explain this more. I can but with all respect I will not. When you stop making something out of everything I say, misquoting me or at least making assumptions I never inferred or demanding I explain my motivation. I might consider addressing this.

Linda said...

ncresident:

How do you know if Jon is working or not working?
How do you know if he is working from home (and that is what allows them to refer to themselves both as Stay At Home Parents.

=============

To all -

And if fairness, I used the term bilking. Ncresident did not.

Saint said...

This is not directed at anyone''s specific comments, but I would welcome feedback.

I really don't think the lay-away or the coupon clipping is necessarily about Kate's "middleclass-ness." (How's THAT for some inventive vocabulary?) I think it's more about her "mom image." Rich, poor, or in between, she's a mother of a lot of kids/big family, and I think that's why she's a spokeperson for "SAHM" things like coupon clipping and lay-away. It's sexist, but that's America. Brad Pitt just isn't going to sell KMart like Kate Gosselin (even though he's a DAD...and really, he should try.) It's not dishonest if she actually does it. I have no idea if she does, except that a poster here (Indianprincess? Lizabeth?) gave us a link to show that she HAS to do so to act within the law. I'm betting she stays within the law. (As opposed to pursuing a criminal career of ignoring the Sunday circulars and paying all at once at KMart.)

Martha Stewart is a spokesman for KMart, isn't she? It's not because she's middleclass; it's because she a domestic diva.

Saint said...

NC Res,
What's the You tube link? Or do you remember the thread it was on? Sorry I didn't see it. Thanks.

nc resident said...

Linda
http://www.babble.com/Kate-Gosselin-The-mother-of-eight-says-parenthood-has-made-her-more-laid-back-Really-Jon-and-Kate-Plus-Eight-saving-money-changing-family-dynamic/

Saint here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU1N0YyS1_k

not be be a snark but listen at 2:49 one of the olders kids seems to say "we what" after Kate talks about Kmart layaway.

Nina Bell said...

Thank you rain personally I see more anger toward someone posting against J&K than I do people being filled with hate against them.

I respectfully disagree. I just read through this post and do not see any anger towards anyone.

nc resident said...

Nina that picture is really neat of the cardinal. Did you take that?

MonicaW42 said...

Marci,

Where the heck have you been? Haven't seen you around in awhile. Did you have a good holiday?

scarfoot said...

I'm sorry, but what is it supposed to mean when Mady says "We what?" in that video? This is now the second time I have seen this video. Both times, I interpreted her reaction as meaning that Mady hadn't considered that her mom has to hide Christmas gifts around the house, or how the gift process works at Christmas time. (I remember that other boards felt like Kate was revealing to the kids that there was no Santa Claus in that clip.) If you are trying to connect that comment to Kate's discussion about coupons, I do not believe that Mady was responding to her discussion about that. I believe she was asking about the layaway process.

I don't see that as an indication of them being more than middle class, if that is what is being suggested (and please correct me if I am wrong). As has been stated before by others, Jon and Kate are working. Whether people like it or not, their job is working for TLC with this show. I also have extensive experience (HAHA) with rich people (not myself, mind you!) and I can tell you that many of them are the tightest people around - they still use coupons, save money, and are generally conservative with their spending. Perhaps that is the case with Jon and Kate. If so, good for them, because they are not guaranteed extensive wealth once the show discontinues.

I am not particularly bothered with their financial habits. Perhaps that makes me a true "sheeple" but I don't care. They are adults, and can choose to spend their money in any way they please - no matter if it is poorly spent or not. I believe that at the beginning of the show, they were still in financial duress and needed assistance. No doubt that the generosity of others contributed to their success. They have now attempted to make a path of their own financially. Many, many don't like it. But it is their choice, because it is their family. They are no longer asking for donations to support their family. I know many are bothered by the "love offering" concept at church speaking engagements (I'm not even aware if they are still asking for love offerings), but that is extremely typical procedures for guest speakers or singing groups church functions, no matter their financial status. It is a gift from the church, and is NOT the suggestion of the guest speaker. Similarly, the church does not ask to see verification of a guest speakers financial situation before offering a love offering. It is a way to thank them for taking time to come, and assist them in costs for coming to speak. Again, it is very, very typical of churches.

Just some of my thoughts.

nc resident said...

Another quote for Linda

“Jon & Kate Plus Ei8ht” truly is a reality show. The cameras reveal the chaos of their home, but also the loving, caring and organized environment the couple create.

“Jon is as elated that our story is in print for our children, as am I. He looks at our show as our job, and it has its goods and bads, the same as with any job,” Kate continues

“We are really blessed, because the show allows us to both work from home and at least one parent is here with our kids all the time.”

Saint said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Saint said...

Nina you said,
I respectfully disagree. I just read through this post and do not see any anger towards anyone.

And I second that. :)

indianprincess said...

In the you tube video I didn't think Mady was commenting on what Kate said neither. I had to listen to it over and over again because maybe I was wrong but no, I got the impression Mady was only commenting on something one of the kids were saying.

Saint said...

OK NC Res!
Thanks for that link...it's so CUTE!

The interviewer asked a question that ends with, "...how do you guys make cut backs in this economy?"

Kate answers (bold emphasis is mine,) "Um, it is very important…um, it’s very difficult; it’s scary for anybody but obviously with eight kids…um, we, the same things we’ve always been doing actually, cutting coupons, watching sales…um, I plan my meals according to the sale flyer that week…um, I've once said that Jon’s job was to work and mine was to save the money, um, and we've, we continue that."

So, she's not dissembling at all. "Once said" means "in the past," which is true, and "continue" means "from before until now," which is also true.

I do not agree that Mady was saying "We what?” She said just, "What?" and it didn't match the conversation the adults were having. It sounded like she was talking to a brother or sister, most of whom were squirming and talking amongst themselves. I will add that I was disappointed that she wasn't being a little bold, as I expected, because sometimes, sometimes it's amusing when little ones correct their parents. I thought they were very cute. Towards the end, I thought I caught Kate give some of them that "Mom look" my mom used and I have now mastered, for keeping kids quiet in church. Kate really struggled to get through the end of that interview, IMO, because the kids were distracting. I thought it was funny...she earned her pay that day! How does Jon get away with saying nothing? Poor Kate! LOL!

merryway said...

NC resident said.
You would also have to agree that without the show that would have been alot more difficult, and that contrary to the image the show portrays, they had tons of help. I venture to say most people here or anywhere could raise 6 actually 8 with the support they have had.


No, I don't think so. I don't know what I'd do if faced with carrying six children and raising them all at once. I don't like the alternatives and certainly don't fault others for their choices. I'm like Kate, I'd want to run away but they'd come with you. The help in the beginning is just to keep the infants alive. I don't care how much help I'd have, the responsibility would still be mine and I would carry that around constantly. I could go into all the parenting 101 reasons, but the outcome is I don't know if I could handle it if they weren't stair-stepped. If I got them to age 7 that would be a good thing and I think I could roll from there. The ages before that bring different challenges that would amplified with so many going through the same phases. I love kids and love being a mom, it's all that experience that let's me know my limits.

Thank you rain personally I see more anger toward someone posting against J&K than I do people being filled with hate against them.

Are you referring to yourself? I have seen several times people reassuring you that you are liked. It's been my experience that the posters here try to take care to be respectful of each other.

In reference to some of your other posts, As far as I can tell you seem to think TLC is trying to create the illusion that Kate only stays home and does the show. Sorry if I'm wrong here, but I can't always get your point. It's no secret that J&K did speaking engagements, that was on an early show. I also think they did events separately but don't know if they still do. It's also no secret that Kate is working for Kmart, P&G, and doing some stuff for the book. I really don't think they're trying to hide their wealth. After you watch a few shows and see the VIP treatment and the difference in the early shows, it's pretty evident how their life has changed. You also seem to think they should put it on their website for fans not to send them anything. Is that right? I don't know of any celebrities who do that and fans do the silliest things.


BTW to all the St. Elsewhere fans, I have to pull it out and watch it now. It was the one show I was truly ate up with. It's a family joke that when we saw almost any famous actor/actress, I'd say “he/she was on St. Elsewhere”.

My silly fan thing, years ago my computer spoke Val Kilmer's lines from Tombstone.

Saint said...

Sorry,
I resubmitted on the wrong thread and then had to delete again. Did you get my "You tube" post for NC Res?

Saint said...

OK, Merryway,
You made an excellent point about the difference between 8 kids, one at a time, and what the Gosselins had. It cannot be forgotten that Jon and Kate had 6 infants at once. I just cannot imagine it.

Remember Jon's 30th birthday? I saw that before I saw my "marathon." It was one of the very first episodes I'd seen. I didn't watch all of it...just the restaurant scene. I remember saying to my husband, "He's 30 and he has 8 little ones at home? He should be really proud of himself."

Luck, blessing, whatever...that You Tube video remended me...they are a beautiful family. And it couldn't have been easy, through some of those early days.

AAP said...

I'm sure people aren't going to agree with me, but I think the show has moved from product placements (in the eariler episodes when Juicy Juice logos were shown) to longer infomerials with the Tales of Desperaux (sp?), Vtech, Wii, to almost the whole show being a infomercial (teeth whitening, hair plugs episodes). The first is integrated the product into the show, the second is an annoying intrusion and conntricts Kate when she says, this show accurately shows our real life (which she stated again in the print articles for the "book tour"), and the third are just gratuitous benefits for Jon and Kate. Who really wants to see more of that?

Even if the product placements don't bother you, I haven't read anyone here state that the reason they watch the show is to see what product Jon and Kate are promoting today. I wish they would go back to regular product placements because I would prefer to see the toys the kids REALLY play with as opposed to the toys they paid to play with.

scarfoot said...

Even if the product placements don't bother you, I haven't read anyone here state that the reason they watch the show is to see what product Jon and Kate are promoting today. I wish they would go back to regular product placements because I would prefer to see the toys the kids REALLY play with as opposed to the toys they paid to play with.

I agree, AAP. I do miss seeing those candid kid moments.

AAP said...

In terms of relatability, even if you didn't have 6 kids at once, you could relate to Mady's tantrums, potty training or the struggles of getting your kids in and out of snowsuits. In the earlier episodes, you could relate to their every day life because it was somewhat similiar to what you are/did go through and the kids are cute.

I miss those episodes, and would like to see more of them vs. the vacations, trips, and commercials in the middle of the show.

If this show became a scripted show on the Disney network along the lines of Zack and Cody (for example), how interested would you be in watching it? Personally, I feel that is the direction the show is heading.

AAP said...

Fiona -

Perhaps it is time to view this reality show in a different way.

Another option might be for J&K to quit telling us how hard this job (their life) is and that it isn't reality anymore.


I agree with you 100% with this statement!

AAP said...

Ooops, it was NC resident I agreed with! Sorry, I'm still sick, and trying to catch up!

AAP said...

Linda -

Did you think that J&K were an average middle class family once the tv series started?

No, I would never call someone with sextuplets as average. And with Jon being out of work, I probably thought of them as lower middle class, definitely struggling and (though I don't know if this is true) wouldn't have guessed they had a large inheritance in the bank either.

AAP said...

Theresa -

Fiona--yes, TLC makes money when WII and Gymobree advertize....they bought the sponsorship. Thus, product placement. The resorts and wherever they go (and stay for free) all have had bought time on the show. They buy the time, the show then exposes the resort/Disney/Grand Walilea, etc by showing the family's stay at the respective place. It is increased traffic for these places when it is shown on J&K +8 or any other show.

Do you mind if I ask what you are basing this on? I thought someone else stated that all arragements during the show are made through Figure 8, since they produce the show, which makes sense to me. Not to say that TLC doesn't get a part of the product placement (and probably has a requirement that they also have to by advertisement during the show, which would go directly into TLC's pocket.)

Linda said...

Saint & Scarfoot:

You said it better than I could. I think that the "WHAT" could mean any of a number of things.

It could mean that she (Mady or Cara) is surprised that Christmas gifts are kept at Kmart.

It could mean that M/C did not hear their sibling or parent.

It could mean that M/C is surprised that the family pays for gifts over the course of a long period of time.

Merryway:

You also articulated some of the same questions that I have.

Linda said...

Sorry AAP, but I don't think that we have proof of this large inheritance that you are referencing.

AAP said...

Linda -

I agree we don't have proof, which is why I referenced that in my post. However, it is true that his father past away, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume the family received an inheritance. I put that in to show that nobody really knows how well off the family was when the show started.

Saint said...

If this show became a scripted show on the Disney network along the lines of Zack and Cody (for example), how interested would you be in watching it?

If that happens, I'm done. And I agree, the "Jon and Kate pitch the Tales of Despereaux" was an example of something I could do without.

Saint said...

The trips do not bother me. I liked the Legoland episode.

Nina Bell said...

NC Resident

The picture is just a random picture. It is beautiful.

Anya said...

AAP said..."If this show became a scripted show on the Disney network along the lines of Zack and Cody (for example), how interested would you be in watching it? Personally, I feel that is the direction the show is heading."

I have never seen Zack and Cody. Is it similar to Hannah Montana?! Aren't these "sitcoms" for the age 8-13 set? I think I am way way out of the demographic!

Seriously, I think what some people are missing is a perceived spontaneity. I don't know if it was ever "there" in the first place. This has and always will be an edited reality t.v. show . As a side note: has anyone ever watched the live feeds of Big Brother on Showtime? If you haven't, you will realize why editing and perhaps a liberal use of scripting (although I think we each will have different ideas as to what that entails) is crucial to making a reality show entertaining for viewers.

AAP said...

Anya -

Seriously, I think what some people are missing is a perceived spontaneity. I don't know if it was ever "there" in the first place.

I'll disagree with you about the spontaneity just because I don't believe a 2 1/2 year old can be anything but spontaneous - lol.

And yes, Zack and Cody is along the lines of Hannah Montana (personally, I can't stand Zack and Cody and try not to let me kids watch it) but you would be surprised at the amount of adults that watch it.

Theresa said...

AAP--Figure 8 is the production crew that films for TLC. They are more hands on with the daily filming and work in tandem with TLC. They probably do make arrangements for the show depending on any circumstance. They work hand in hand with someone (most likely a promotions/programming person at TLC)on a daily basis. However, any media buy ($), product sponsor or placement on the TLC network (or any network)(for any of the shows) is bought via the media buyer and contract is placed for TLC (or said network) Any network that airs commercials, product placement or sponsors had the monetary transaction take place before said product/commercials are aired. The network received the money. How they disperse it, I honestly don't know. Since they have a contract with Figure 8, I am sure they get a part (who knows how much) of the media buy. A factor depends on how much the client spends with the network.

I am basing my answer on 25 years in the media business. I also have experience with this when working for Disney. That's how it was done for our station. I have worked with our local tv station at a certain point of my career. Currently, I work for one of the largest radio corportions.

Theresa said...

Oops! Meant to say "radio corporations". :)

themrs said...

anya- be thankful you aren't in that demographic! with kids ranging from 2-9 some days i feel like our house is sponsored by the disney channel! you're not missing anything:)

nc resident said...

Nina someone has posted using your and Siants name on the Seattle article. Thought I'd let you know if you didn't see it.

Nina Bell said...

NC Resident

Imitation is the best form of flattery

Nina Bell said...

OK

I said I wasn't going to read comment sections anymore as my New Year's Resolution and you encouraged me to break that already, NC Resident. LOL. And I did. All I can say is that I am sure glad that Saint is agreeing with me. I am not going back there to check but I hope I used spell check.

Saint said...

A doppleganger!

nc resident said...

well I want to say while we may have our own opinions of J&K and the show. This reporter by not moderating that comments sections is probably going what the he@%, hehe. I appreciate being able to discuss this show with passionate, but reasonable and concerned people. So you all know I posted a comment on GWOP for Julie to contact the authorities if she felt so sure these kids were in trouble. I also challenged another comment that was made without proof. I was SHOCKED my post never made it lol.

Saint said...

So you all know I posted a comment on GWOP for Julie to contact the authorities if she felt so sure these kids were in trouble. I also challenged another comment that was made without proof. I was SHOCKED my post never made it lol.

I know, it makes you wonder about the posts that do make it. Every now and then an opposing view gets through, but it's so nutty that I think it's probably a fake, meant to give the regulars something to pick apart.

Julie doesn't know anything about those kids anymore. By her own account, her "source," her sister, hasn't had contact with the Gosselinsfor months. So she knows what you and I do, not much.

JULIE brought news of the house/van vandalism to the blogosphere. No one else brought that up. And she wants us to get back to giving the kids privacy? Irony.

nc resident said...

JULIE brought news of the house/van vandalism to the blogosphere.

I am hoping she was wrong that is getting pretty extreme. Scary for them as well if it is true.

Mom said...

My two cents on....

MARKETING TIE INS/PAID ADVERTISERS:
Theresa's last post about media buys is correct. The contract is most likely with TLC. It is possible, however, that "trade" (meaning product trade and/or placement) is a part of the contract, hence Juicy Juice, Johnson's (closet of shampoo and products), etc.

As far as the trips are concerned, I believe that J&K probably call the shots on those - including hair transplants, teeth whitening, Em Tanner (sp?), etc. To my knowledge, non of those businesses had actually "advertised" on the show.

Since I'm an editor, I follow the rules of "editorial integrity" and admit some of the product placement stuff (especially the Tale of Despereaux) bugs me. I realize it's everywhere - in other shows, etc. and most (Juicy Juice, Johnson's) don't necessarily bug me too much.

Even though the show has changed, there is a part of me that misses the olden days. It was clear that the Tale of Despereaux reading was scripted. I have no doubt had J&K received the book and all the cute little mice, they would have read to their kids anyway.

FREEBIES:
I honestly could care less about any freebies the Gs get. If a corporation wants to give them a year supply of "whatever," so be it. Obviously, a resort could gain more from a gift like being televised on the show.

Anya said...

themrs said..."anya- be thankful you aren't in that demographic! with kids ranging from 2-9 some days i feel like our house is sponsored by the disney channel! you're not missing anything:)

See, I kinda sorta miss those days! :-( My "baby" is 17. Where did the time go?

But, I totally get your point. There is such a thing as too much of a "good" thing!

And I am lucky. My daughter loves J&K too so it's something we have in common and can talk about - with teenagers you take it where you can get it!

FIONA said...

Oh Anya, I miss those days too!

My daughter is still home from college on Christmas break, and while it is great to have her home my hubby and I are will be glad when this last week is up!

Living in a dorm sure hasn't done anything for her organization-her room is the worst I have ever seen it.

I would take her at any age over the teen years, although, I must say we are very thankful to have a kid with a good head on her shoulder.

She is working today at a local ski resort...ticket checker and lift attendant. The temp is -2 in the basin where she is today. She has been working 3 days a week over the break and doing alot of skiing.

BTW, anyone have any personal stories of the Peace Corps...she sprung it on us last night that it was something she might like to do.

Give me Disney over MTV anyday!!!

MonicaW42 said...

Fiona,

My uncle did the Peace Corps back in the mid 1960's in Guinea, Africa. He took a ton of slide pictures (way old school) and wrote journals on his experience. He said is was a good learning experience for him but that he would discourage his own children from doing it. I think everyone is different and should follow their hearts. However, the mom in me says it is a very dangerous world out there and to be careful in making big decisions like that. Of course it is dangerous getting on a freeway these days in our own country. I guess my point is just that I heard and saw pictures of an experience that seemed pretty cool even with the danger.

FIONA said...

Thanks for the feedback.

I have done some research on the Peace Corps and it seems like the places they send the volunteers is very safe. I think I am more worried about the water and food sources, but they teach you how to handle that as well.

We are just in the barely talking about it stage, but I think two years away from home, serving others, would be very good for my daughter.

AAP said...

Theresa & Mom -

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question!

Theresa said...

You're welcome AAP!

And, thanks Mom. I totatlly forgot about trade. :)

Mom said...

Thanks to Guin and Fiona for getting this post going. I had started writing something a week ago and then the damn respiratory virus hit my family over the new year! UGH. I knew AAP and some others wanted to discuss this issue.

Theresa - trade comes in handy for entertaining clients - restaurant trade especially! :-)

Theresa said...

You know it's funny Mom, I was thinking about you this afternoon when a salesperson said we'd do a meeting at a certain restaurant downtown because "I have trade there". I immediately thought of your post and how the heck could I forget trade?? LOL (I am in programming, so that could be the reason because we are not privvy to it as easily as the Sales dept).

Yes trade is indeed the salesperson's friend. :)

Kuromi said...

What's funny is that product placement still comes as a surprise to angry viewers.

Remember the first Wayne's World movie circa 1990? There was a whole segment making fun of product placement--for example, Wayne staring into the camera holding a bag of Dorito's just so, crunching happily. Already, this type of marketing was old-hat enough to be joked about.

Like some people said, I agree that it's more honest to consumers to have obvious rather than "subliminal" advertising. After Top Gun came out on video, I was sitting with college friends watching it in their room. They'd already seen the movie umpteen times. Near the beginning, when the trainees are all sitting at desks or monitors, there's an almost-inperceptable flash of red in the corner of the screen. My friends said "Watch this!" and paused the video. They rewound frame-by-frame until the red flash became apparent: It was a Pepsi logo. Subliminal advertising at its finest.

Imagine the outrage if the Gosselins did THAT!

Nina Bell said...

We are not accepting anonymous comments. Thanks

patricia said...

my problem with the product placement is that a lot of times it's not just a shot of whatever item they're advertising, but that jon and kate talk about how great the toy is without saying that it was something sent to them free in exchange for advertising.

Baby Mama said...

"my problem with the product placement is that a lot of times it's not just a shot of whatever item they're advertising, but that jon and kate talk about how great the toy is without saying that it was something sent to them free in exchange for advertising."

Seriously, its dammed if you do and dammed if you dont with these people. Why would anyone want to see Jon & Kate talk about how they got this for free and how they are told to advertise for it? It makes no sense. If they said, "Wow we got this for free and its so great" then the haters would be blogging about how theyre bragging about ANOTHER thing they got free because of these show. Also it just doesn't sound right. If the kids are playing with a v-tech toy, does the advertiser want their clients telling people they got it free in exchange for some publicity? No. Its one of those unspoken rules that are on every single other show out there. But its obviously just one more thing to snark about regarding this family.

nc resident said...

Also it just doesn't sound right. It works for Bill Mays and those other late night informercials baby mama. We all know they don't buy anything so no confusion from them on that.

Chi-Town Single said...

I figure that the product placement was similar to a friend telling me that her kids really like playing with a specific toy, or that certain foods turn out to be okay with kids. Sure, they're getting paid for it, but I figure they wouldn't "recommend" it if they didn't actually think it was a little worthwhile.