If you click on your own name you see a button that says, "edit your profile."
I clicked that and scrolled midway down the page, where it says, "photograph." There are two choices: the URL of a website or "browse" to find a picture on you computer. I chose browse and uploaded the angry avatar you see today. I previously had googled it, changed it a bit, and saved it to my picture file so that I could use it as my avatar.
Now you know...we'll be watching to see what you choose :)
I'm not asking this to be difficult. I'm trying to really understand.
From so many of the posts you've written I gather that you do not like nor do you approve of J&K's values, morals, choices, etc.
I'm in a similar position with a lot of the talking heads on both FOX News and CNN. (Especially the supposed "legal analysts" -- not sure why but they strike me as particularly obnoxious.)
Can you explain to me why you are so motivated to find out "the truth" about J&K? When the talking heads on the news drive me nutty, I turn the channel. Sure, I've done a google search on a few of them but my interest in them wanes quickly.
Is it a hobby? Is it a distraction? I'm honestly asking.
NCres I agree with Saint that you should search elsewhere. I'm not sure what your game is, but it is boring and taken away from the fun of this blog. Your tedious posts were only responded to with respect on this site, but then you go elsewhere and ridicule those same people.
-I really admire what they do with their children's diet (and wish organic foods were as readily available here!), but when he said that the kids have never had fast food, I immediately flashed to the scene in Utah where Jon walks in with Happy Meals for all the kids!
Scarfoot, this is I why I question at lot of what Jon and Kate say. In the interview, I think Jon truly believes that the kids have never had Happy Meals yet we can see for ourselves that it's not true. I think that Jon and Kate have good intentions, but they have a warped perception of how they view life vs. the reality of their lives.
That said, it's very possible they are getting a condo and I think Jenn's explanation makes sense - they probably will rent it out. I view them as frugal enough not to just let it sit there for 10 months out of the year.
Anya, not to disagree with you and Jen, but I can't see Kate renting it out. Too many issues with her OCD tendencies (uhmmm, she won't walk on a hotel carpet), and privacy as well I would guess.
I am never late. Ever. In fact I am known by my friends as being early. Its just how I am.
Tonight I was late to class by about 2 minutes because of bad roads. Oops.
Am I a total liar whose word cannot be trusted?
I know this sensationalizes something people see as no big deal, but thats really what it all boils down to. Jon said one thing which probably at least 95% of the time is true... we all do that, and I think to scrutinize such a small piece and make it something which causes you to not trust someones word is not a fair perspective.
Just my opinion, but there are many things Jon and Kate say which tend to be exaggerated so the 'never had happy meals' thing didn't bother me since on a daily/weekly/monthly basis I highly doubt they eat fast food.
On the McDonald's, I don't know. I remember it being brought up at the time as an "aha! gotcha!" moment (that the kids were eating fast food), but I don't remember if they were shown eating it or if it was clear that he was bringing it specifically for the kids.
Well, they were happy meals - how many adults eat those? Did they really need to clarify that a children's meal was for the kids?
My friend talks the way that Jon does . . . She'll say things like . . .
"We NEVER go the movies."
Actually, they only go the movies about once every year.
I suppose that I could hound her for it but I don't. I understand that sometimes the way that people express themselves is filled with subtlety and nuance.
If those kids have only had fast food once or twice in their 4 years then I'd say that is actually pretty close to as Jon so articulately puts it (wink wink) . . .
Lizabeth, I agree that over all the Gosselin kids don't eat that much fast food. But there's a difference in making a point to saying they NEVER eat fast food, which both Jon and Kate have done. If they didn't specifically go out of their way to make a point to say that fast food has never pasted their kids lips (which is somewhat a quote of what Kate said), I wouldn't have a problem with it.
The "love offerings" is their speaker's fee. Speakers get paid for speaking. The Gosselins stand to make much less money by taking love offerings than they do by charging a fee to speak. People give what they want or even not at all.
Daisy, I appreciate you and others taking the time to explain "love offerings" - a concept I was completely unfamiliar with before Jon and Kate. I understand that "love offerings" are a show of appreciation, and are offered regardless of a person's financial need.
However, what I would like to know if it's customary for a wealthy person to keep the "love offering" or donate it back to the church or some other organization? This isn't a judgement against Jon and Kate, I'm just curious if anyone has any knowledge of it.
Linda, thanks for the "hello!" It's good to be back!
Anya, I did not! They offered me a few cheap xbox accessories and I told them to take them and shove them you know where. I haven't played the xbox since. I don't want to say that I gave up, but life happens and other things took priority. I'm done w/ the 2nd job now so hopefully I'll be around more!
Linda and Lizabeth, if the fast food issue is the only comment that Jon and Kate have stated that turned out not to be exactly true, I would think you have more of a point that nitpicking on this issue is something that can easily slide by.
And I understand that people are either in the "what does this all matter?" side vs. the conspiracy "AHA, this is further proof you are evil!" side. And most of the posters here really don't care what us conspirers think, they just want to sit back and enjoy the show.
But let me point something else Jon said in the interview - about not using the kids to "work" or to sell products. Yet, Kate herself is using the children to help sell her next book. Is there a difference if they have an advertiser or a book publisher do it?
In another interview I found on the other site (http://www.examiner.com/x-1684-Philadelphia-Parenting-Examiner~y2008m12d11-Jon--Kate-Plus-8s-Jon-Gosselin-talks-holiday-gifts-and-inlaws), Jon makes this (strange to me) comment.
While the alleged rifts in the family have never been directly addressed, DJ Atom from WSTO did sneak in a question about the extended family by asking, "Whose family is harder to deal with? Your family? Or her family?" Jon answered by laughing and saying, "I'm not going to answer that one. We all know the answer to that one. My family is cool. You saw them on TV, all chilling out in Hawaii." He went on to say, "My family's like whatever ... whatever goes."
Technically, yes, the people they shown in Hawaii are Jon's family. But can you tell what their personalities are like after meeting them only a couple of times in your life? And why would you imply that virtual strangers are along the same lines as the people who were raised with Kate?
And just to make it clear, I don't really think Jon and Kate are evil. I just don't think the way they live their lives and their actions match up with the things they say, which is why there are all these inconsistencies. It's like that girl (Joycelyn, I think) on the Biggest Loser who thinks she's willing to do whatever it takes to lose weight, but when it comes down to it, it's just one excuse after another. I'm sure she believes she's trying as hard as she can, but outside observers have a different perspective.
However, what I would like to know if it's customary for a wealthy person to keep the "love offering" or donate it back to the church or some other organization? This isn't a judgement against Jon and Kate, I'm just curious if anyone has any knowledge of it.
I have no idea. I also have no idea if the Gosselins donate their love offerings. Anything is possible.
Regarding "love offerings:" Even if it is customary to donate love offerings back, why would they? They have eight children to raise. Why would they travel around to churches to speak for nothing? Why should they do that with their time?
A young couple with eight children does not have the time to be traveling around for charity. If it doesn't benefit their family somehow, why do it at this point? There is a time for everything. The time for charitable speaking engagements is far in the future, when the children are raised, and their retiremnet is secure. Until then, I believe, their responsibilty is to securing their children's health, material comfort, education, and spiritual well-being.
I could easily quit my job and volunteer in a similar position as an act of charity, since I work in a field that accepts such giving. Someday I hope to do so. But not until after my children are raised and my retirement is secure.
Hi que, I was raised in a AG church like the Gosselins attend. It's not customary for a speaker to give back the love offering. Some have ministries of their own. Other speakers are along the lines of "inspirational" and the love offering was for them coming to speak to the congregation.
I just don't think it's fair to take a statement made a year, or even 6 months ago and compare it to something said this week. Things change, people change. My sister is a huge planner and about 95% of the time her plans change. Does that make her a liar? No. Maybe a little wishy-washy though. ;)
My dear departed grandmother was the recipient of many love offerings. During my youth, which was late in her life, she no longer had a church of her own and was a guest minister at local AG churches. Her ministry was her calling and the offering her bread and butter. She was very frugal and would even take her own sandwich to the bus-station to have with her coffee. That's quite dated isn't it? No one would venture to the bus-station anymore for a cup of coffee. But, that gives you an idea of how long the custom of love offerings has been going on.
Saint, I was thinking the same thing. Why would Jon & Kate donate the money back when they have a family to support and they earned it.
It's possible that they tithe a portion of their income to their church or other charity. That's customary for Christians.
My 87 year old father is a minister and is paid by love offerings. My parents raised my brother and sister and I on them.
There's nothing questionable about Love offerings. It's legal and they worked for it. Why question whether or not they can keep what they earn, especially when the money was given from the heart.
Perhaps Que you hold others to more exacting standards than I do.
I've been on the receiving end of those kinds of exacting expectations and it isn't pleasant.
I recall when I was first married and my husband was less than helpful or tidy. I got up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom and tripped over his shoes that he had left on the floor in the middle of the bedroom. Because I had been asking him repeatedly to put them away or at least out of a traffic path I said,
"You NEVER put your shoes away."
And my husband's response? (BTW, now he is actually more embarrassed by his response than leaving the shoes out ...)
"NEVER? I put them away once last week."
IMHO, his focus on that 1 word was a kind of defense mechanism a way to distract attention from the issue at hand.
Someone else wrote that a lot of the criticisms end up being treated as "Gotcha" moments. Almost to suggest . . . .
"If Jon and Kate are lying about fast food, what else are they lying about."
Regarding "love offerings:" Even if it is customary to donate love offerings back, why would they? They have eight children to raise. Why would they travel around to churches to speak for nothing? Why should they do that with their time?
=====
I believe Kate has said that she was chosen by God to have the babies and that God manages their lives. So I would assume that she would want to witness the fact that God has control. What greater act of giving back to the Lord then to let him speak thru her-for the sheer joy of doing his work. Yes, if they are financially stable, why continue to collect more in the name of God's work-how about donate their love offering to the children's church, choir or a food bank.
I understand the reason to keep love offerings if it was your sole mean of existence. But Jon and Kate are stars on a very lucrative tv show. Kate is an author now...cough, cough, another book or 2 on the way, the PR deals, the house, the condo....I think if they speak in a church it should be a gesture of good will.
If they want to speak at the Home Show and are paid a fee to do I think it is different.
Well to start, I went to see the Gosselins speak well over a year ago. And back then they were saying they were only filming 3-4 days a week. So, that's nothing new.
I also think that some people who have heard them speak are getting confused. AS PART OF THEIR STORY, they do speak of WHEN they were on hard times. NEVER in the talk did they act as though they were still going through hard times in the present time. I don't know why people act like they do. If someone goes to see them and don't like them they tend to hear what they want to hear. Which in turn usually ends up wrong or fabricated into some lie.
Now, I have a friend who works for a church. A church that booked J&K. So I got to see them again, a year later. And, they are still telling the same story. The story about how it all started, what they went through, and where they are now. It was almost exactly like the talk I heard a year prior. Word for word. So, I HIGHLY doubt these complainers and haters of the Gosselins are telling the truth about the talks they've been to. You know, the ones they claim they've been to where the Gosselins are begging for money and acting poor. LOL YEAH RIGHT!
Why would the Gosselins change their format only at THEIR churhces/locations. And yet the rest of us, thousands upon thousands, have all described almost exactly, to a T, what their REAL format is all about. Which is much different than what the haters have to say.
I don't know. It just angers me that people go around acting as though J&K are going around asking for money and pretending to be poor when clearly that is NOT TRUE.
As for offerings collected, the first one I attended charged money for tickets to get in. But ALL of the money made went to the church. The second one I attended did NOT take up collection for them. Nor did they charge a ticket fee. And, the friend I know who works in the church claims that she knows several other churches where the Gosselins have visited and none of them charged money either. And, of the few that did take up a collection, it was all the pastors doing. J&K never demanded or even asked for it. But it was collected as a "thank you" to them for coming out. And I see nothing wrong with that.
I thought I made it pretty clear that I wasn't suggesting that Jon and Kate should donate the money back. I wasn't hinting at that, or implying that at all. I was simply asking a question about something which I know nothing about, and was curious to know if people who are wealthy and come speak at a church ever donated their love offering back.
That's it - no slam towards the Gosselins intended. Thanks to the people who responded to the question asked.
Someone else wrote that a lot of the criticisms end up being treated as "Gotcha" moments. Almost to suggest . . . .
"If Jon and Kate are lying about fast food, what else are they lying about."
Linda, I do kind of think that way, but I also think that Jon and Kate tend to say things that is more for appearance sake then don't actually live up to what they say. I don't think there's evil intent in this, I just think they say one thing and do another.
I mean, if Jon can remember the 1 time he took Mady to Red Robin but can't remember that he brought them Happy Meals in Utah? If they weren't so emphatic about the fast food issue this would be a non topic for me. And, as others have pointed out, we really don't see their whole lives, so how do we know they don't have fast food more often? We already know they've had it at least once.
I do still watch the show, not as much as I used to.
I believe Kate has said that she was chosen by God to have the babies and that God manages their lives. So I would assume that she would want to witness the fact that God has control. What greater act of giving back to the Lord then to let him speak thru her-for the sheer joy of doing his work. Yes, if they are financially stable, why continue to collect more in the name of God's work-how about donate their love offering to the children's church, choir or a food bank
Fiona, Why should J&K be the first to break the custom?
******** I knew many people who were glad to have heard inspirational stories and gave what they considered “a blessing” of money. Growing up, this was just all part of the family budget. In the churches that I am most familiar with, most attenders have a “regular” amount they give for such things because it's a normal part of their life. No one really cared how well off they were or not, it was “who they were” that held interest. Some of these AG churches are huge so you have wide range of incomes. The very wealthy also attend church. For some reason, I just think everyone has a picture of little old ladies emptying their pocketbooks for J&K. It's not like only the stupid and poor attend church services. I'm sure these people have heard sad or amazing stories before. Why is it assumed that these people who give to them are so ignorant?
In my youth, I heard so many missionaries and guest pastors. The funnest and the ones that got everyone buzzing was when we would have a celebrity. It was a “fun” thing for the church to do. We kids were glad for the break.
Regarding the Happy Meals....maybe they substituted out the McNuggets for the apple slices, milk, and yogurt. I don't remember seeing actually consumption of McNuggets. Would that then be McNuggetgate? :)
Seriously, who cares if they have had McDonald's in a crunch or once in a while? J&K say they try their best to make it organic, but that's not always feasible. They didn't say every meal was organic.
I thought I made it pretty clear that I wasn't suggesting that Jon and Kate should donate the money back.
You did make that clear, Que. I hope my thoughts on the topic didn't imply you suggested otherwise. Your question (which I could not answer) just prompted my own thoughts on whether they should be doing charity speaking tours, that's all.
What bugs me about Jon's comments regarding the grandparents is that he made the comments instead of shutting down the question.
It would be infinitely easier if J&K sat down and agreed on a standard answer and stuck to it. Something along the lines of "they don't want to be filmed" or "they wish to retain their privacy" or "sorry that's private".
Instead they continuously invite speculation by changing their answers, making them vague or even glaringly odd like this latest comment. For grandparents who, by Jon's admission, have chosen not to be involved they were awfully hands-on when the twins lived with them for several months while Kate was on bed rest. And hands-on again when their church collected donations.
I honestly don't care what happened, why, or when. But I do care when I hear them give conflicting answers to simple questions.
What bugs me about Jon's comments regarding the grandparents is that he made the comments instead of shutting down the question.
It would be infinitely easier if J&K sat down and agreed on a standard answer and stuck to it. Something along the lines of "they don't want to be filmed" or "they wish to retain their privacy" or "sorry that's private".
I agree with this. I know that they have pretty much said that their lives are an open book, but it's pretty obvious they don't want to talk about this, and that's their right. So I don't know why they don't have a prepared answer - it shouldn't surprise them that it comes up, at this point.
I guess the sinister PR team that the tin-foil hatters see as the most powerful organization this side of the Freemasons have let that one slip through the cracks!
Instead they continuously invite speculation by changing their answers, making them vague or even glaringly odd like this latest comment. For grandparents who, by Jon's admission, have chosen not to be involved they were awfully hands-on when the twins lived with them for several months while Kate was on bed rest. And hands-on again when their church collected donations.
I honestly don't care what happened, why, or when. But I do care when I hear them give conflicting answers to simple questions.
I agree that their answers have been vague, but I'm not sure they've been conflicting or that they've changed their story.
I think there would be speculation regardless. I certainly don't think a "no comment", even if I think that's the appropriate response, would do anything to quash speculation. In this case, the poor, maligned grandparents are too powerful of a symbol for the haters to leave entirely alone.
No, but both Jon and Kate have said that their kids "have never eaten fast fast."
January 16, 2009 7:56 PM ____________________
So they are taken to task for having a McDonald's bag? We don't know what's inside it. Like I said it could have the healthier substitutions, even if it was from a fast food restaurant, they technically could still be eating nutrtionally sound food and J&K could be correct in their statement. Right?
This goes back either in this thread or somewhere else here about the nitpicking of what the Gosselins say. Why do people feel they need to nitpick everything J&K say? As I've said before, the show is edited, things can be taken out of context and the family grows and moves on. Just because something is said in one of the first few seasons, doesn't mean that it continues now or that J&K should be taken to task.
Welcome and thank you for your comment. Unfortunately we do not feel it is appropriate to tell people here what they can and cannot think. Difference of opinion is appreciated as long as there is respect and understanding, both of which were lacking in what you said.
If you would like to resubmit your comment with more grace, or are able to back your words up with facts, then we would be willing to post what you have to say.
No, but both Jon and Kate have said that their kids "have never eaten fast food."
When my kids were little, I said "my kids always go to bed at 8:00". Did they? Well, on vacations or 4th of July, they stayed up later. But 99% of the time they were in bed at 8. Does that make me a liar or untrustworthy?
Regarding the grandparents - I think there is a lot more to the Jon's statements (for both Jon's and Kate's parents), than what is said. It could be do to J/K or it could be due to the parents. Most likely, it's due to the combination of personalities. And, I don't really want/need to know any more of the family issues. I think Jon should have given a non-committal, pre-thought, standard answer.
As far as Jon and Kate having R&D, a corporation, books, spokesperson...I say good for them. It removes some of the public eye from the kids. If you make the decision to put your kids out in the public eye, I think it's good to have a plan that could minimize that exposure as they age. I hope that's the case.
Regarding the helper - If it were me, I would use the helper to watch 5 kids while I got some one-on-one time with the 6th child. And, I would be talking about that in an interview, rather than talking about gettimg two hours of exercise. Maybe he does use some of that babysitting time to get one-on-one time with the kids. If so, he's not being media smart by not talking it when asked about his day.
I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner to this comment:
Linda, I do kind of think that way, but I also think that Jon and Kate tend to say things that is more for appearance sake then don't actually live up to what they say. I don't think there's evil intent in this, I just think they say one thing and do another.
I mean, if Jon can remember the 1 time he took Mady to Red Robin but can't remember that he brought them Happy Meals in Utah? If they weren't so emphatic about the fast food issue this would be a non topic for me. And, as others have pointed out, we really don't see their whole lives, so how do we know they don't have fast food more often? We already know they've had it at least once.
I agree with you on a couple of things. Yes, you are probably right that they are saying things for the sake of appearance. In my experience, everyone does. Some to more of an extent than others.
I also agree that there is probably no evil intent. I think that is what rubs me the wrong way about a lot of the more anti-G posters.
Some of them suggest that there is evil intent in EVERYTHING that J&K do. I just don't see them that way. I look at them as flawed people like we all are. I don't see them as inspirational. I do understand the interest that people have in them, but I don't understand the intense hatred that people have in them.
There is no McDonald's at the Canyons resort. I highly doubt that any crew member would drive into Park City and find the only McD's in town to give to the G kids when there are plenty of good restaurants on the mountain. Why when the Canyons are hosting them would they not take full advantage of the food? DUH!
Has anyone ever thought that there are kid friendly places to eat that might just cater to the ski school kids and therefore pack up their lunch in a fun sack?
So obvious, and I really don't like being put in the position to defend the Gosselin's but this has really been bugging me.
So maybe J is not lying or conveniently forgetting. Maybe a more accurate explanation is that there are no fast food places at the Canyon and that the bags were kids meals from another small restaurant.
============
BTW, I like your picture on your profile Fiona. That isn't in Utah is it? I see what looks like water in the background.
I have a challenge for anyone that is indifferent or maybe still a Gosselin fan...??? watch this interview, keeping in mind of the million dollar purchases, the help from the state of Pennsylvania and all of the volunteer help then go to this link:
This topic has been discussed on this site more times than I care to count, and I have not been around since the beginning.
Yes, I guess one could consider me a 'fan' of Jon and Kate. Part of the reason I enjoy the show is because this is a family who started with close to nothing (as evidenced by the web archive that has cropped up here a lot lately) and have now started a successful brand which (while beginning with the sextuplets) will continue to be prosperous even after the show ends.
A few years ago I was broke. Lived at my parents house, was half done with college and dropped out then worked at a restaurant. Now, years later, I am in my career (which is quite successful, thanks), saving for my first house, and almost done with grad school. You must feel the same way about people who support me and my life now, then? Since apparently there is something wrong with having tough times in your life followed by success.
Just asking, honestly, if that is the issue you raise. Jon and Kate have said thank you MANY times on their show, in interviews, etc to those who have helped them with the sextuplets and twins. They have expressed a desire to give back now that they are financially able (which is seen on the show as well as the fact that there are now articles of kind things Kate has done which were not at all for publicity-- i.e. visiting the Van Houten sextuplets when she was in Michigan which was never mentioned on the show and which was only brought to light when that family chose to get publicity from the visit).
Point being- circumstances change. People change. Why is that a valid reason to dislike this family?
dad of 3- i don't understand, what are we supposed to be looking at? i realize this is the archive of their website but which entry are you referring to?
Going through all of those interviews really would be a challenge! Funny thing how the non-fans would be more likely to trudge their way through archived interviews than the so-called sheeple.
The last of those interviews was in 2007. I can't be certain, but my guess is this family just started to become financially stable in 2008. That is when they signed the new deal with TLC, the book came out, and the speaking engagements flourished. I'm not sure how anything they said regarding their financial situation in 2007 would apply to what's going on in their lives now.
As other have requested - please point out the exact interview. Maybe there is something valid there to discuss that I'm not aware of.
that "successful brand" that you are refering to is the childhood and well being of 8 small children.
with regards to the link, I'm refering to the solicitation on that website from the gosselins, over a 4 year period, for any and all items, (including cash), required to raise these children. Despite the income from TLC, the multiple volunteers and the help from the state of Penn. I had been waivering in my criticism of J & K and indifferent till I saw those archives. I have a family of five and I , like most people, struggled early in life raising small children. My wife and I worked harder and finished our educations in response to our tough times, we didnt ask for help on a website. We didnt sell off the surplus and we didnt accept help from volunteers to fold clothes or make lunches. Oh, and we didnt ask for a 15 passenger van.
I'm not sure what else to say except congratulations and maybe "good for you."
You should be commended for your hard work. My parents raised 8 children and it was really challenging both emotionally and financially.
My sister and I were the youngest and identical twins. So whatever costs that were associated with us were doubled simply because there were 2 of us going through that at the same time.
School fees: Doubled Extra-curricular fees: Doubled Snow Suits: Doubled
So I have some sympathy re: them having these expenses first times 2 with the twins and then times 6 with the tups.
Thank you Linda and Nina, I ask only one to consider the facts as they are posted on J & K's own site and as they are portrayed on the show. I make no other claims or speculations. The real estate purchase is a matter of public record and I would only question how a family of 10 would be able to make such a meteoric rise from the depths of potential utility shutoffs to the purchase of million dollar estates and what the role of the solicitations played in that accelerated evolution. Thank you for the chance to make that query and question what the effect of such a public life is doing to those 8 children.
The real estate purchase is a matter of public record and I would only question how a family of 10 would be able to make such a meteoric rise from the depths of potential utility shutoffs to the purchase of million dollar estates and what the role of the solicitations played in that accelerated evolution. =====
This kind of thought process bugs me. Do people NOT relize that Jon and Kate Plus 8 is a hit TV show on TLC and that they get PAID for doing it! Do you think they could have earned enough money from JUST the show to purchase this home? Um, yea! And not to mention Kate's (Beth's) book! That is were the majority of their money comes from, not there early begging and Church fees. These people are very wealthy now!
I'm a mom and I although I don't like some of the child-rearing practices that the Duggars engage in (having the older girls raise the younger children, raising the girls to be submissive to their husbands, etc.) I've never thought about researching them so extensively.
I just don't watch them.
I don't mean any disrespect, but I don't understand how if a television family elicited such intense feelings of moral disrespect from me why I would research them so deeply. I guess that I just wouldn't support them -- in the least bit -- by not watching their show, by not buying their book or not blogging about them.
First off, I see you're a bit of a "hero" on Gwop. Congrats. That must make you feel good. Dredging up old news and making it into nonsense today by using their creed of "I care about the kids"? Bravo!
Second, what is there to worry about the Gosselin kids? They are being well taken care of and loved, what it the problem that you have?
Third, you bring up their old website. Kudos to them for putting that on there. They just had 6 babies and are being inundated with offers of help and money. That's what a smart dad adn mom does. They used technology to their advantage.
Fourth, this interest of yours in a family you dislike so much only stems from your own inadequacies and jealousy. They've provided well for their family.
You know with all the research and time you've spent on the Gossselins, you might've been able to start an online business or something of your own to help your own family. If I were your wife, aka "Mom of 3", I'd be on your butt to increase the income of our own family by using your Gosselin hatred energy productively and to let you know that resentment is not something to teach your three children.
Given that you have posted on GWOP regarding your strong feelings against the Gosselins and that your role as a dad motivates your concern for the children ...
What are your thoughts about the nasty things said about the children at that site. I believe just recently someone wished that one of the kids would get lice.
Seriously, that is where you ( and Julie and ncresident for that matter) lose me. Even vague association a site that calls kids names is objectionable to me.
Thank you Linda and Nina, I ask only one to consider the facts as they are posted on J & K's own site and as they are portrayed on the show. I make no other claims or speculations. The real estate purchase is a matter of public record and I would only question how a family of 10 would be able to make such a meteoric rise from the depths of potential utility shutoffs to the purchase of million dollar estates and what the role of the solicitations played in that accelerated evolution. Thank you for the chance to make that query and question what the effect of such a public life is doing to those 8 children.
I would agree that it's due to the show and the attendant opportunities. Though I'm not sure why people care. The anger at the success of the Gosselins never ceases to puzzle me.
Being a Utah skier myself for over 14 years, and having a kid working at another resort and a hubby very involved at yet another, Jon doesn't know squat about the best skiing or riding in Utah. Certainly for boarders, The Canyons is not the best choice...
The Canyons is a posh resort for tourists. Locals don't ski there. The mountain is so broken up it is very difficult to navigate. Snow turns to rain alot and the skiing is not the best in Utah.
Please understand that I mean no offense by my post, nor is my post directed towards Fiona, I am just using this as an example to illustrate my point. This quote from Fiona is a prime example of how subjective this whole thing is that surrounds J&K. Fiona, I too live in Ut. and am an avid snow boarder. Have been for close to twenty years. Some of us "locals" acutally like the canyons among other places. Now Brighton is by far my favorite, but the canyons isn't just for tourists. That is your opinion formed by your own experiences. Just like my opinion is formed from my own life experiences.
This is the point of my whole post...everyone perceives things differently. J&K are damned if they do and damned if they don't. J&K don't open up about many personal things and everyone assumes they are hiding something. Then they do open up and BAM!, the vultures attack and disect and pick apart every last syllable.
Have to say, glad no one is video taping me at every turn, I'm bound to come off poorly.
What ever happened to giving people the benefit of the doubt? Some people may not care for J&K's personalities, but it is clearly obvious they are just normal people with hang ups just like the rest of us. They are in no way bad people or even evil as some others have said.
What ever happened to giving people the benefit of the doubt?
Basically, I think that what you are touching on is an essential difference between people. Some are prone to see the good in others and some are prone to see the bad.
I choose to see the glass half-full. I choose to see the good in others -- especially when I don't have the whole picture.
Fiona, now I will have have to watch that episode much more carefully to see what is on the food bags they bring in - lol!
Saint - I did misread your statement - thanks for explaining.
I look at them as flawed people like we all are. I don't see them as inspirational.
Linda, I get the feeling - and this is strictly jmho - that one of the reasons J&K embellish the truth is that they are trying to establish (or brand) themselves as "super parents" as a way of continuing on without the kids. I've said this before but I keep getting a feeling that if you give them a buck they'll say what ever you want.
If Dad of 3 is really NC Resident - please just stick with NC. Apparently Nina Bell has computer super powers and can out you anyway. (Nina I mean this is a good way - lol.)
Linda, I get the feeling - and this is strictly jmho - that one of the reasons J&K embellish the truth is that they are trying to establish (or brand) themselves as "super parents" as a way of continuing on without the kids. I've said this before but I keep getting a feeling that if you give them a buck they'll say what ever you want.
I don't think J&K present themselves as super parents, though. They have been pretty open about not being perfect, and about making mistakes. If there is any embellishment (and I don't know that there is, or that I'd call it that, exactly), it may be just a natural defense mechanism - they get so much flak that maybe in trying to deflect that we sometimes end up with what their critics call "inconsistencies".
Oh wow! I think that this is an example of how blogging can easily confuse things.
I don't think that dadof3 and ncresident are the same person.
Geez, maybe you know something I don't . . . .
I was seriously asking dadof3 how he felt about the trashing of the kids on "the other site" given how the show by his own admission violates his sensibilities as a dad. I had never asked that of ncresident so I thought I'd ask him too.
I'll admit that I've always been a little skeptical about both of their posts. They speak a lot of GWOP talking points. And this is the internet. They both claim to be men/dads, but for all I know they could be hers.
===============
I tend to see a middle ground here. Sure they are marketing themselves. But I don't know that it is as super-parents. Perhaps it is more as "every parent."
Every parent has kids who misbehaves.
Every parent has kids who have meltdowns.
Every parent has kids who are poicky.
Etc., etc.
========
I wish that they would've said something about their relationship with Beth.
I still maintain that she is a college student and that is what has changed.
Guinvere, when I mentioned super parents, I meant to add something about not being perfect so they can still appear real and down to earth. I meant super in the way of parents of 8, extraordinary challenges they face, etc. I still haven't quite figured it out. Sorry, my son's homework called and I never finished that thought.
Coming from an activist/government questioning family and an X-files and Lost lover, I guess I'm always looking for the "conspiracy theories." It's also a (very small) part of why I still like to watch to show - to see if I'm guessing right.
Linda, because I tend to think in conspiracy thoughts, I did link NC and Dad of 3 (and I mean no harm in doing so. Both write in similar styles and they tend to agree with my line of thought and.) To be honest, I didn't think NC would be scared off so easily.
Que is really just because I like it and it is a shortened version of queue - lately I feel like all I do is stand in line for things. I like "on cue" though! See my post on the current topic about my feeling on whether or not Beth and Kate are still friends - I bet you can guess where I stand :-).
Good point Linda. I hope he comes back, because sometimes it's lonely being on the other side. At the same time, I would enjoy more honest conversation and less game playing.
I am that same kind of person as well...I guess that's why I just don't understand thinking the other way.
As a side note, I have to disagree with Fiona about the whole McDonalds thing. I have been that McDonalds in Park City (there is only one in that whole area, unless there is one in the Walmart close by that I have forgotten about), oh lets say...a bazillion times, it is not right in Park City itself and is just up the road from the road turning into the canyons. I have stayed in a condo right near the canyons and have actually bought food there and brought it back. Its actually very concievable (sp?)that they did this. Whether they actually did or not, I really don't care.
I agree that this couple is damned if they do and damned if they don't. I also believe just because they chose to do this show it does NOT mean that they need to answer every detail about their lives to the public. Whether it could "clear the air" or not, an explanation is not due.
In my own life, I don't talk to my father yet my siblings do. It was a personal decision that we each made. Furthermore, not everyone in my life - including close friends - know the details regarding the estrangement. One of my best friends has been in my life for 20 years and does not know the full details. And she doesn't ask either, it's just a non-issue. If I was on a TV show I wouldn't discuss it... I just don't understand the opinion that Kate owes it to the audience.
Another thing... it's stated that filming takes place about 3 days a week. So how many hours of footage does that amount to? All we see most weeks is 22 minutes, with the occasional hour special. I would not even pretend to know anything about this family. Please think of all that is left on the cutting room floor. Please think of what might be going on the rest of the week. Just because a family or friend is not featured does not exactly mean that they have been "cut-off".
Also, Beth is a wonderful woman, and I understand the desire to defend her. Yes, she had a tremendous hand in writing that book but her role was as nothing more than a "ghost writer". There is no need for her to be a part of the book tour because it is not her story. Don't worry though, she is getting the royalty money.
Okay... this is COMPLETE SPECULATION... the first thing I thought when viewing Jon's interview is that there might be an interest for Cara to become more involved with skiing. Aren't the winter training facilities for the U.S. Olympics in Park City? My son has the opportunity to join a development soccer team for the Men's U.S. Olympic team, so that made me think that since Cara was there as well perhaps they were getting information? Again, it's just my own speculation.
290 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 290 of 290nc resident,
Are you "search for truth" at another site?
Saint,
I like your avatar. It reflects my sentiments on some things right now.
Mary-great posts! I agree with a lot of what you said and see things the way you do.
Take care!
Thank you Monica42! I'd share it but I don't know how.
Saint/Curious/Furious
I do have to say that the daily puppy is freaking adorable
Saint~ how did you get an avatar... ?
Jenn-
If I may answer for Saint you choose an image, save it to your computer, and upload it to your blogger profile, very simple.
Choose profile, edit profile, edit image, select browse, open your photo and upload.
If you click on your own name you see a button that says, "edit your profile."
I clicked that and scrolled midway down the page, where it says, "photograph." There are two choices: the URL of a website or "browse" to find a picture on you computer. I chose browse and uploaded the angry avatar you see today. I previously had googled it, changed it a bit, and saved it to my picture file so that I could use it as my avatar.
Now you know...we'll be watching to see what you choose :)
Ooops! Samantha beat me to it! Thanks Samantha, I like your blogging profile :)
yes Saint I am
Well, keep searching.
ncresident:
I'm not asking this to be difficult. I'm trying to really understand.
From so many of the posts you've written I gather that you do not like nor do you approve of J&K's values, morals, choices, etc.
I'm in a similar position with a lot of the talking heads on both FOX News and CNN. (Especially the supposed "legal analysts" -- not sure why but they strike me as particularly obnoxious.)
Can you explain to me why you are so motivated to find out "the truth" about J&K? When the talking heads on the news drive me nutty, I turn the channel. Sure, I've done a google search on a few of them but my interest in them wanes quickly.
Is it a hobby? Is it a distraction? I'm honestly asking.
Is everyone still feeling friendly?......
Cincymom: Mostly lol
I'm freezing, CincyMom!
Could the Canadians on the thread please swoop in and reclaim this air mass settling on pretty Pennsylvania tonight?
NCres
I agree with Saint that you should search elsewhere. I'm not sure what your game is, but it is boring and taken away from the fun of this blog. Your tedious posts were only responded to with respect on this site, but then you go elsewhere and ridicule those same people.
Thanks Saint :)
-I really admire what they do with their children's diet (and wish organic foods were as readily available here!), but when he said that the kids have never had fast food, I immediately flashed to the scene in Utah where Jon walks in with Happy Meals for all the kids!
Scarfoot, this is I why I question at lot of what Jon and Kate say. In the interview, I think Jon truly believes that the kids have never had Happy Meals yet we can see for ourselves that it's not true. I think that Jon and Kate have good intentions, but they have a warped perception of how they view life vs. the reality of their lives.
That said, it's very possible they are getting a condo and I think Jenn's explanation makes sense - they probably will rent it out. I view them as frugal enough not to just let it sit there for 10 months out of the year.
Anya, not to disagree with you and Jen, but I can't see Kate renting it out. Too many issues with her OCD tendencies (uhmmm, she won't walk on a hotel carpet), and privacy as well I would guess.
RE: the happy meal thing
I am never late. Ever. In fact I am known by my friends as being early. Its just how I am.
Tonight I was late to class by about 2 minutes because of bad roads. Oops.
Am I a total liar whose word cannot be trusted?
I know this sensationalizes something people see as no big deal, but thats really what it all boils down to. Jon said one thing which probably at least 95% of the time is true... we all do that, and I think to scrutinize such a small piece and make it something which causes you to not trust someones word is not a fair perspective.
Just my opinion, but there are many things Jon and Kate say which tend to be exaggerated so the 'never had happy meals' thing didn't bother me since on a daily/weekly/monthly basis I highly doubt they eat fast food.
On the McDonald's, I don't know. I remember it being brought up at the time as an "aha! gotcha!" moment (that the kids were eating fast food), but I don't remember if they were shown eating it or if it was clear that he was bringing it specifically for the kids.
Well, they were happy meals - how many adults eat those? Did they really need to clarify that a children's meal was for the kids?
Sam and Saint ~ Thanks for the avatar advice. I think I got it figured out.
My friend talks the way that Jon does . . . She'll say things like . . .
"We NEVER go the movies."
Actually, they only go the movies about once every year.
I suppose that I could hound her for it but I don't. I understand that sometimes the way that people express themselves is filled with subtlety and nuance.
If those kids have only had fast food once or twice in their 4 years then I'd say that is actually pretty close to as Jon so articulately puts it (wink wink) . . .
"Like never."
Welcome back Que!
Lizabeth, I agree that over all the Gosselin kids don't eat that much fast food. But there's a difference in making a point to saying they NEVER eat fast food, which both Jon and Kate have done. If they didn't specifically go out of their way to make a point to say that fast food has never pasted their kids lips (which is somewhat a quote of what Kate said), I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Crud, you can't really see it very well. :(
Jenn- your icon is HYSTERICAL. The flying monkeys in the wizard of oz FREAK me out.
Thanks Sam! I'm not sure how it looked to everyone else but I couldn't read it so I changed it.
Jenn, love it! Don't worry, if people can't read it immediately, they will click on it.
Did you ever get resolution on your Microsoft issue?
The "love offerings" is their speaker's fee. Speakers get paid for speaking. The Gosselins stand to make much less money by taking love offerings than they do by charging a fee to speak. People give what they want or even not at all.
Daisy, I appreciate you and others taking the time to explain "love offerings" - a concept I was completely unfamiliar with before Jon and Kate. I understand that "love offerings" are a show of appreciation, and are offered regardless of a person's financial need.
However, what I would like to know if it's customary for a wealthy person to keep the "love offering" or donate it back to the church or some other organization? This isn't a judgement against Jon and Kate, I'm just curious if anyone has any knowledge of it.
Linda, thanks for the "hello!" It's good to be back!
Anya, I did not! They offered me a few cheap xbox accessories and I told them to take them and shove them you know where. I haven't played the xbox since. I don't want to say that I gave up, but life happens and other things took priority. I'm done w/ the 2nd job now so hopefully I'll be around more!
Linda and Lizabeth, if the fast food issue is the only comment that Jon and Kate have stated that turned out not to be exactly true, I would think you have more of a point that nitpicking on this issue is something that can easily slide by.
And I understand that people are either in the "what does this all matter?" side vs. the conspiracy "AHA, this is further proof you are evil!" side. And most of the posters here really don't care what us conspirers think, they just want to sit back and enjoy the show.
But let me point something else Jon said in the interview - about not using the kids to "work" or to sell products. Yet, Kate herself is using the children to help sell her next book. Is there a difference if they have an advertiser or a book publisher do it?
In another interview I found on the other site (http://www.examiner.com/x-1684-Philadelphia-Parenting-Examiner~y2008m12d11-Jon--Kate-Plus-8s-Jon-Gosselin-talks-holiday-gifts-and-inlaws), Jon makes this (strange to me) comment.
While the alleged rifts in the family have never been directly addressed, DJ Atom from WSTO did sneak in a question about the extended family by asking, "Whose family is harder to deal with? Your family? Or her family?" Jon answered by laughing and saying, "I'm not going to answer that one. We all know the answer to that one. My family is cool. You saw them on TV, all chilling out in Hawaii." He went on to say, "My family's like whatever ... whatever goes."
Technically, yes, the people they shown in Hawaii are Jon's family. But can you tell what their personalities are like after meeting them only a couple of times in your life? And why would you imply that virtual strangers are along the same lines as the people who were raised with Kate?
And just to make it clear, I don't really think Jon and Kate are evil. I just don't think the way they live their lives and their actions match up with the things they say, which is why there are all these inconsistencies. It's like that girl (Joycelyn, I think) on the Biggest Loser who thinks she's willing to do whatever it takes to lose weight, but when it comes down to it, it's just one excuse after another. I'm sure she believes she's trying as hard as she can, but outside observers have a different perspective.
However, what I would like to know if it's customary for a wealthy person to keep the "love offering" or donate it back to the church or some other organization? This isn't a judgement against Jon and Kate, I'm just curious if anyone has any knowledge of it.
I have no idea. I also have no idea if the Gosselins donate their love offerings. Anything is possible.
It's freezing here. Brrrrr....
Regarding "love offerings:" Even if it is customary to donate love offerings back, why would they? They have eight children to raise. Why would they travel around to churches to speak for nothing? Why should they do that with their time?
A young couple with eight children does not have the time to be traveling around for charity. If it doesn't benefit their family somehow, why do it at this point? There is a time for everything. The time for charitable speaking engagements is far in the future, when the children are raised, and their retiremnet is secure. Until then, I believe, their responsibilty is to securing their children's health, material comfort, education, and spiritual well-being.
I could easily quit my job and volunteer in a similar position as an act of charity, since I work in a field that accepts such giving. Someday I hope to do so. But not until after my children are raised and my retirement is secure.
Jenn,
I missed the flying monkeys...but the ambitious ant is great!
Hi que,
I was raised in a AG church like the Gosselins attend. It's not customary for a speaker to give back the love offering. Some have ministries of their own. Other speakers are along the lines of "inspirational" and the love offering was for them coming to speak to the congregation.
I just don't think it's fair to take a statement made a year, or even 6 months ago and compare it to something said this week. Things change, people change. My sister is a huge planner and about 95% of the time her plans change. Does that make her a liar? No. Maybe a little wishy-washy though. ;)
My dear departed grandmother was the recipient of many love offerings. During my youth, which was late in her life, she no longer had a church of her own and was a guest minister at local AG churches. Her ministry was her calling and the offering her bread and butter. She was very frugal and would even take her own sandwich to the bus-station to have with her coffee. That's quite dated isn't it? No one would venture to the bus-station anymore for a cup of coffee. But, that gives you an idea of how long the custom of love offerings has been going on.
Saint, I was thinking the same thing. Why would Jon & Kate donate the money back when they have a family to support and they earned it.
It's possible that they tithe a portion of their income to their church or other charity. That's customary for Christians.
My 87 year old father is a minister and is paid by love offerings. My parents raised my brother and sister and I on them.
There's nothing questionable about Love offerings. It's legal and they worked for it. Why question whether or not they can keep what they earn, especially when the money was given from the heart.
Perhaps Que you hold others to more exacting standards than I do.
I've been on the receiving end of those kinds of exacting expectations and it isn't pleasant.
I recall when I was first married and my husband was less than helpful or tidy. I got up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom and tripped over his shoes that he had left on the floor in the middle of the bedroom. Because I had been asking him repeatedly to put them away or at least out of a traffic path I said,
"You NEVER put your shoes away."
And my husband's response? (BTW, now he is actually more embarrassed by his response than leaving the shoes out ...)
"NEVER? I put them away once last week."
IMHO, his focus on that 1 word was a kind of defense mechanism a way to distract attention from the issue at hand.
Someone else wrote that a lot of the criticisms end up being treated as "Gotcha" moments. Almost to suggest . . . .
"If Jon and Kate are lying about fast food, what else are they lying about."
So, do you still watch the show and if so why?
Regarding "love offerings:" Even if it is customary to donate love offerings back, why would they? They have eight children to raise. Why would they travel around to churches to speak for nothing? Why should they do that with their time?
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I believe Kate has said that she was chosen by God to have the babies and that God manages their lives. So I would assume that she would want to witness the fact that God has control. What greater act of giving back to the Lord then to let him speak thru her-for the sheer joy of doing his work. Yes, if they are financially stable, why continue to collect more in the name of God's work-how about donate their love offering to the children's church, choir or a food bank.
Maybe they do, but I bet my pinky toe they don't.
I understand the reason to keep love offerings if it was your sole mean of existence. But Jon and Kate are stars on a very lucrative tv show. Kate is an author now...cough, cough, another book or 2 on the way, the PR deals, the house, the condo....I think if they speak in a church it should be a gesture of good will.
If they want to speak at the Home Show and are paid a fee to do I think it is different.
That is just my opinion.
Well to start, I went to see the Gosselins speak well over a year ago. And back then they were saying they were only filming 3-4 days a week. So, that's nothing new.
I also think that some people who have heard them speak are getting confused. AS PART OF THEIR STORY, they do speak of WHEN they were on hard times. NEVER in the talk did they act as though they were still going through hard times in the present time. I don't know why people act like they do. If someone goes to see them and don't like them they tend to hear what they want to hear. Which in turn usually ends up wrong or fabricated into some lie.
Now, I have a friend who works for a church. A church that booked J&K. So I got to see them again, a year later. And, they are still telling the same story. The story about how it all started, what they went through, and where they are now. It was almost exactly like the talk I heard a year prior. Word for word. So, I HIGHLY doubt these complainers and haters of the Gosselins are telling the truth about the talks they've been to. You know, the ones they claim they've been to where the Gosselins are begging for money and acting poor. LOL YEAH RIGHT!
Why would the Gosselins change their format only at THEIR churhces/locations. And yet the rest of us, thousands upon thousands, have all described almost exactly, to a T, what their REAL format is all about. Which is much different than what the haters have to say.
I don't know. It just angers me that people go around acting as though J&K are going around asking for money and pretending to be poor when clearly that is NOT TRUE.
As for offerings collected, the first one I attended charged money for tickets to get in. But ALL of the money made went to the church. The second one I attended did NOT take up collection for them. Nor did they charge a ticket fee. And, the friend I know who works in the church claims that she knows several other churches where the Gosselins have visited and none of them charged money either. And, of the few that did take up a collection, it was all the pastors doing. J&K never demanded or even asked for it. But it was collected as a "thank you" to them for coming out. And I see nothing wrong with that.
I thought I made it pretty clear that I wasn't suggesting that Jon and Kate should donate the money back. I wasn't hinting at that, or implying that at all. I was simply asking a question about something which I know nothing about, and was curious to know if people who are wealthy and come speak at a church ever donated their love offering back.
That's it - no slam towards the Gosselins intended. Thanks to the people who responded to the question asked.
Someone else wrote that a lot of the criticisms end up being treated as "Gotcha" moments. Almost to suggest . . . .
"If Jon and Kate are lying about fast food, what else are they lying about."
Linda, I do kind of think that way, but I also think that Jon and Kate tend to say things that is more for appearance sake then don't actually live up to what they say. I don't think there's evil intent in this, I just think they say one thing and do another.
I mean, if Jon can remember the 1 time he took Mady to Red Robin but can't remember that he brought them Happy Meals in Utah? If they weren't so emphatic about the fast food issue this would be a non topic for me. And, as others have pointed out, we really don't see their whole lives, so how do we know they don't have fast food more often? We already know they've had it at least once.
I do still watch the show, not as much as I used to.
I believe Kate has said that she was chosen by God to have the babies and that God manages their lives. So I would assume that she would want to witness the fact that God has control. What greater act of giving back to the Lord then to let him speak thru her-for the sheer joy of doing his work. Yes, if they are financially stable, why continue to collect more in the name of God's work-how about donate their love offering to the children's church, choir or a food bank
Fiona, Why should J&K be the first to break the custom?
********
I knew many people who were glad to have heard inspirational stories and gave what they considered “a blessing” of money. Growing up, this was just all part of the family budget. In the churches that I am most familiar with, most attenders have a “regular” amount they give for such things because it's a normal part of their life. No one really cared how well off they were or not, it was “who they were” that held interest. Some of these AG churches are huge so you have wide range of incomes. The very wealthy also attend church. For some reason, I just think everyone has a picture of little old ladies emptying their pocketbooks for J&K. It's not like only the stupid and poor attend church services. I'm sure these people have heard sad or amazing stories before. Why is it assumed that these people who give to them are so ignorant?
In my youth, I heard so many missionaries and guest pastors. The funnest and the ones that got everyone buzzing was when we would have a celebrity. It was a “fun” thing for the church to do. We kids were glad for the break.
I can't believe I'm writing this :)...
Regarding the Happy Meals....maybe they substituted out the McNuggets for the apple slices, milk, and yogurt. I don't remember seeing actually consumption of McNuggets. Would that then be McNuggetgate? :)
Seriously, who cares if they have had McDonald's in a crunch or once in a while? J&K say they try their best to make it organic, but that's not always feasible. They didn't say every meal was organic.
I thought I made it pretty clear that I wasn't suggesting that Jon and Kate should donate the money back.
You did make that clear, Que. I hope my thoughts on the topic didn't imply you suggested otherwise. Your question (which I could not answer) just prompted my own thoughts on whether they should be doing charity speaking tours, that's all.
They didn't say every meal was organic.
No, but both Jon and Kate have said that their kids "have never eaten fast fast."
wow sorry "fast food"
Man 16 hours days will really do that to you!
What bugs me about Jon's comments regarding the grandparents is that he made the comments instead of shutting down the question.
It would be infinitely easier if J&K sat down and agreed on a standard answer and stuck to it. Something along the lines of "they don't want to be filmed" or "they wish to retain their privacy" or "sorry that's private".
Instead they continuously invite speculation by changing their answers, making them vague or even glaringly odd like this latest comment. For grandparents who, by Jon's admission, have chosen not to be involved they were awfully hands-on when the twins lived with them for several months while Kate was on bed rest. And hands-on again when their church collected donations.
I honestly don't care what happened, why, or when. But I do care when I hear them give conflicting answers to simple questions.
Just pick an answer and stick to it!
What bugs me about Jon's comments regarding the grandparents is that he made the comments instead of shutting down the question.
It would be infinitely easier if J&K sat down and agreed on a standard answer and stuck to it. Something along the lines of "they don't want to be filmed" or "they wish to retain their privacy" or "sorry that's private".
I agree with this. I know that they have pretty much said that their lives are an open book, but it's pretty obvious they don't want to talk about this, and that's their right. So I don't know why they don't have a prepared answer - it shouldn't surprise them that it comes up, at this point.
I guess the sinister PR team that the tin-foil hatters see as the most powerful organization this side of the Freemasons have let that one slip through the cracks!
Instead they continuously invite speculation by changing their answers, making them vague or even glaringly odd like this latest comment. For grandparents who, by Jon's admission, have chosen not to be involved they were awfully hands-on when the twins lived with them for several months while Kate was on bed rest. And hands-on again when their church collected donations.
I honestly don't care what happened, why, or when. But I do care when I hear them give conflicting answers to simple questions.
I agree that their answers have been vague, but I'm not sure they've been conflicting or that they've changed their story.
I think there would be speculation regardless. I certainly don't think a "no comment", even if I think that's the appropriate response, would do anything to quash speculation. In this case, the poor, maligned grandparents are too powerful of a symbol for the haters to leave entirely alone.
Niecy said...
No, but both Jon and Kate have said that their kids "have never eaten fast fast."
January 16, 2009 7:56 PM
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So they are taken to task for having a McDonald's bag? We don't know what's inside it. Like I said it could have the healthier substitutions, even if it was from a fast food restaurant, they technically could still be eating nutrtionally sound food and J&K could be correct in their statement. Right?
This goes back either in this thread or somewhere else here about the nitpicking of what the Gosselins say. Why do people feel they need to nitpick everything J&K say? As I've said before, the show is edited, things can be taken out of context and the family grows and moves on. Just because something is said in one of the first few seasons, doesn't mean that it continues now or that J&K should be taken to task.
Niecy, I hear you about the 16 hour days. :)
Dad of Three,
Welcome and thank you for your comment. Unfortunately we do not feel it is appropriate to tell people here what they can and cannot think. Difference of opinion is appreciated as long as there is respect and understanding, both of which were lacking in what you said.
If you would like to resubmit your comment with more grace, or are able to back your words up with facts, then we would be willing to post what you have to say.
Thanks again for the comment.
No, but both Jon and Kate have said that their kids "have never eaten fast food."
When my kids were little, I said "my kids always go to bed at 8:00". Did they? Well, on vacations or 4th of July, they stayed up later. But 99% of the time they were in bed at 8. Does that make me a liar or untrustworthy?
Regarding the grandparents - I think there is a lot more to the Jon's statements (for both Jon's and Kate's parents), than what is said. It could be do to J/K or it could be due to the parents. Most likely, it's due to the combination of personalities. And, I don't really want/need to know any more of the family issues. I think Jon should have given a non-committal, pre-thought, standard answer.
As far as Jon and Kate having R&D, a corporation, books, spokesperson...I say good for them. It removes some of the public eye from the kids. If you make the decision to put your kids out in the public eye, I think it's good to have a plan that could minimize that exposure as they age. I hope that's the case.
Regarding the helper - If it were me, I would use the helper to watch 5 kids while I got some one-on-one time with the 6th child. And, I would be talking about that in an interview, rather than talking about gettimg two hours of exercise. Maybe he does use some of that babysitting time to get one-on-one time with the kids. If so, he's not being media smart by not talking it when asked about his day.
I am so glad that I don't live in the public eye.
Que,
I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner to this comment:
Linda, I do kind of think that way, but I also think that Jon and Kate tend to say things that is more for appearance sake then don't actually live up to what they say. I don't think there's evil intent in this, I just think they say one thing and do another.
I mean, if Jon can remember the 1 time he took Mady to Red Robin but can't remember that he brought them Happy Meals in Utah? If they weren't so emphatic about the fast food issue this would be a non topic for me. And, as others have pointed out, we really don't see their whole lives, so how do we know they don't have fast food more often? We already know they've had it at least once.
I agree with you on a couple of things. Yes, you are probably right that they are saying things for the sake of appearance. In my experience, everyone does. Some to more of an extent than others.
I also agree that there is probably no evil intent. I think that is what rubs me the wrong way about a lot of the more anti-G posters.
Some of them suggest that there is evil intent in EVERYTHING that J&K do. I just don't see them that way. I look at them as flawed people like we all are. I don't see them as inspirational. I do understand the interest that people have in them, but I don't understand the intense hatred that people have in them.
There is no McDonald's at the Canyons resort. I highly doubt that any crew member would drive into Park City and find the only McD's in town to give to the G kids when there are plenty of good restaurants on the mountain. Why when the Canyons are hosting them would they not take full advantage of the food? DUH!
Has anyone ever thought that there are kid friendly places to eat that might just cater to the ski school kids and therefore pack up their lunch in a fun sack?
So obvious, and I really don't like being put in the position to defend the Gosselin's but this has really been bugging me.
Fiona -
Thanks.
So maybe J is not lying or conveniently forgetting. Maybe a more accurate explanation is that there are no fast food places at the Canyon and that the bags were kids meals from another small restaurant.
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BTW, I like your picture on your profile Fiona. That isn't in Utah is it? I see what looks like water in the background.
I don't see anything wrong with fast food every now and then. Having it every day, would be a different story.
When the kids get older, I'm sure that they will request it. Like most teen-agers do.
Linda,
Thanks! No that isn't SLC, it is in San Deigo at the Coronado Hotel beach last June. What a great old hotel.
I have a challenge for anyone that is indifferent or maybe still a Gosselin fan...??? watch this interview, keeping in mind of the million dollar purchases, the help from the state of Pennsylvania and all of the volunteer help then go to this link:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://sixgosselins.com
nuff said!
Dad of three,
This topic has been discussed on this site more times than I care to count, and I have not been around since the beginning.
Yes, I guess one could consider me a 'fan' of Jon and Kate. Part of the reason I enjoy the show is because this is a family who started with close to nothing (as evidenced by the web archive that has cropped up here a lot lately) and have now started a successful brand which (while beginning with the sextuplets) will continue to be prosperous even after the show ends.
A few years ago I was broke. Lived at my parents house, was half done with college and dropped out then worked at a restaurant. Now, years later, I am in my career (which is quite successful, thanks), saving for my first house, and almost done with grad school. You must feel the same way about people who support me and my life now, then? Since apparently there is something wrong with having tough times in your life followed by success.
Just asking, honestly, if that is the issue you raise. Jon and Kate have said thank you MANY times on their show, in interviews, etc to those who have helped them with the sextuplets and twins. They have expressed a desire to give back now that they are financially able (which is seen on the show as well as the fact that there are now articles of kind things Kate has done which were not at all for publicity-- i.e. visiting the Van Houten sextuplets when she was in Michigan which was never mentioned on the show and which was only brought to light when that family chose to get publicity from the visit).
Point being- circumstances change. People change. Why is that a valid reason to dislike this family?
dad of 3- i don't understand, what are we supposed to be looking at? i realize this is the archive of their website but which entry are you referring to?
Dad of 3 -
What position would you rather have them be in? When they were scrambling for their next utliity payment or now?
Would it be how I'd do it? No. But then again, no one is asking me to film my life.
I really don't understand your point.
BTW, what archived piece are you pointing out.
Going through all of those interviews really would be a challenge! Funny thing how the non-fans would be more likely to trudge their way through archived interviews than the so-called sheeple.
The last of those interviews was in 2007. I can't be certain, but my guess is this family just started to become financially stable in 2008. That is when they signed the new deal with TLC, the book came out, and the speaking engagements flourished. I'm not sure how anything they said regarding their financial situation in 2007 would apply to what's going on in their lives now.
As other have requested - please point out the exact interview. Maybe there is something valid there to discuss that I'm not aware of.
lizabeth,
that "successful brand" that you are refering to is the childhood and well being of 8 small children.
with regards to the link, I'm refering to the solicitation on that website from the gosselins, over a 4 year period, for any and all items, (including cash), required to raise these children. Despite the income from TLC, the multiple volunteers and the help from the state of Penn. I had been waivering in my criticism of J & K and indifferent till I saw those archives. I have a family of five and I , like most people, struggled early in life raising small children. My wife and I worked harder and finished our educations in response to our tough times, we didnt ask for help on a website. We didnt sell off the surplus and we didnt accept help from volunteers to fold clothes or make lunches. Oh, and we didnt ask for a 15 passenger van.
dad of 3 -
Congratulations on all of your hard work.
Dad of 3
Kudos to you also, although you are right, we all have those stories of how we worked hard to get where we are and I think mine probably tops yours.
But to me the bigger or better question is, did the opportunity ever afford itself to you or me like it did the Gosselins?
Six kids all at one time with a set of twins on top of it presents itself with a unique setting.
I am not sure what I would have done in a similar situation.
dad of 5 -
I'm not sure what else to say except congratulations and maybe "good for you."
You should be commended for your hard work. My parents raised 8 children and it was really challenging both emotionally and financially.
My sister and I were the youngest and identical twins. So whatever costs that were associated with us were doubled simply because there were 2 of us going through that at the same time.
School fees: Doubled
Extra-curricular fees: Doubled
Snow Suits: Doubled
So I have some sympathy re: them having these expenses first times 2 with the twins and then times 6 with the tups.
Thank you Linda and Nina, I ask only one to consider the facts as they are posted on J & K's own site and as they are portrayed on the show. I make no other claims or speculations. The real estate purchase is a matter of public record and I would only question how a family of 10 would be able to make such a meteoric rise from the depths of potential utility shutoffs to the purchase of million dollar estates and what the role of the solicitations played in that accelerated evolution. Thank you for the chance to make that query and question what the effect of such a public life is doing to those 8 children.
Thanks again.
The real estate purchase is a matter of public record and I would only question how a family of 10 would be able to make such a meteoric rise from the depths of potential utility shutoffs to the purchase of million dollar estates and what the role of the solicitations played in that accelerated evolution.
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This kind of thought process bugs me. Do people NOT relize that Jon and Kate Plus 8 is a hit TV show on TLC and that they get PAID for doing it! Do you think they could have earned enough money from JUST the show to purchase this home? Um, yea! And not to mention Kate's (Beth's) book! That is were the majority of their money comes from, not there early begging and Church fees. These people are very wealthy now!
I disagree that the role of solitications and donations made any significant contribution in the rise of their financial status.
I think that once they got the t.v. series -- if even on a cable channel -- their income probably went through the roof.
I'll ask you the same thing that I ask other posters who seem so pre-occupied with t.v. personalities that they so vehemently disagree with:
Presumably, being able to raise your children yourself without assistance is it's own reward.
For what reason do you find yourself so interested in a family that you dislike so much?
Because I'm a Dad.
I'm a mom and I although I don't like some of the child-rearing practices that the Duggars engage in
(having the older girls raise the younger children, raising the girls to be submissive to their husbands, etc.) I've never thought about researching them so extensively.
I just don't watch them.
I don't mean any disrespect, but I don't understand how if a television family elicited such intense feelings of moral disrespect from me why I would research them so deeply. I guess that I just wouldn't support them -- in the least bit -- by not watching their show, by not buying their book or not blogging about them.
Dad of 3-
First off, I see you're a bit of a "hero" on Gwop. Congrats. That must make you feel good. Dredging up old news and making it into nonsense today by using their creed of "I care about the kids"? Bravo!
Second, what is there to worry about the Gosselin kids? They are being well taken care of and loved, what it the problem that you have?
Third, you bring up their old website. Kudos to them for putting that on there. They just had 6 babies and are being inundated with offers of help and money. That's what a smart dad adn mom does. They used technology to their advantage.
Fourth, this interest of yours in a family you dislike so much only stems from your own inadequacies and jealousy. They've provided well for their family.
You know with all the research and time you've spent on the Gossselins, you might've been able to start an online business or something of your own to help your own family. If I were your wife, aka "Mom of 3", I'd be on your butt to increase the income of our own family by using your Gosselin hatred energy productively and to let you know that resentment is not something to teach your three children.
dadof3
I do have a question for you ( and ncresident.)
Given that you have posted on GWOP regarding your strong feelings against the Gosselins and that your role as a dad motivates your concern for the children ...
What are your thoughts about the nasty things said about the children at that site. I believe just recently someone wished that one of the kids would get lice.
Seriously, that is where you ( and Julie and ncresident for that matter) lose me. Even vague association a site that calls kids names is objectionable to me.
Linda,
You made me laugh! So obvious!
Thank you Linda and Nina, I ask only one to consider the facts as they are posted on J & K's own site and as they are portrayed on the show. I make no other claims or speculations. The real estate purchase is a matter of public record and I would only question how a family of 10 would be able to make such a meteoric rise from the depths of potential utility shutoffs to the purchase of million dollar estates and what the role of the solicitations played in that accelerated evolution. Thank you for the chance to make that query and question what the effect of such a public life is doing to those 8 children.
I would agree that it's due to the show and the attendant opportunities. Though I'm not sure why people care. The anger at the success of the Gosselins never ceases to puzzle me.
Guin -
Anger at their success.
That is it.
Being a Utah skier myself for over 14 years, and having a kid working at another resort and a hubby very involved at yet another, Jon doesn't know squat about the best skiing or riding in Utah. Certainly for boarders, The Canyons is not the best choice...
The Canyons is a posh resort for tourists. Locals don't ski there. The mountain is so broken up it is very difficult to navigate. Snow turns to rain alot and the skiing is not the best in Utah.
Please understand that I mean no offense by my post, nor is my post directed towards Fiona, I am just using this as an example to illustrate my point. This quote from Fiona is a prime example of how subjective this whole thing is that surrounds J&K.
Fiona, I too live in Ut. and am an avid snow boarder. Have been for close to twenty years. Some of us "locals" acutally like the canyons among other places. Now Brighton is by far my favorite, but the canyons isn't just for tourists. That is your opinion formed by your own experiences. Just like my opinion is formed from my own life experiences.
This is the point of my whole post...everyone perceives things differently. J&K are damned if they do and damned if they don't. J&K don't open up about many personal things and everyone assumes they are hiding something. Then they do open up and BAM!, the vultures attack and disect and pick apart every last syllable.
Have to say, glad no one is video taping me at every turn, I'm bound to come off poorly.
What ever happened to giving people the benefit of the doubt?
Some people may not care for J&K's personalities, but it is clearly obvious they are just normal people with hang ups just like the rest of us. They are in no way bad people or even evil as some others have said.
Trish:
You wrote:
What ever happened to giving people the benefit of the doubt?
Basically, I think that what you are touching on is an essential difference between people. Some are prone to see the good in others and some are prone to see the bad.
I choose to see the glass half-full. I choose to see the good in others -- especially when I don't have the whole picture.
Fiona, now I will have have to watch that episode much more carefully to see what is on the food bags they bring in - lol!
Saint - I did misread your statement - thanks for explaining.
I look at them as flawed people like we all are. I don't see them as inspirational.
Linda, I get the feeling - and this is strictly jmho - that one of the reasons J&K embellish the truth is that they are trying to establish (or brand) themselves as "super parents" as a way of continuing on without the kids. I've said this before but I keep getting a feeling that if you give them a buck they'll say what ever you want.
If Dad of 3 is really NC Resident - please just stick with NC. Apparently Nina Bell has computer super powers and can out you anyway. (Nina I mean this is a good way - lol.)
Linda, I get the feeling - and this is strictly jmho - that one of the reasons J&K embellish the truth is that they are trying to establish (or brand) themselves as "super parents" as a way of continuing on without the kids. I've said this before but I keep getting a feeling that if you give them a buck they'll say what ever you want.
I don't think J&K present themselves as super parents, though. They have been pretty open about not being perfect, and about making mistakes. If there is any embellishment (and I don't know that there is, or that I'd call it that, exactly), it may be just a natural defense mechanism - they get so much flak that maybe in trying to deflect that we sometimes end up with what their critics call "inconsistencies".
Oh wow! I think that this is an example of how blogging can easily confuse things.
I don't think that dadof3 and ncresident are the same person.
Geez, maybe you know something I don't . . . .
I was seriously asking dadof3 how he felt about the trashing of the kids on "the other site" given how the show by his own admission violates his sensibilities as a dad. I had never asked that of ncresident so I thought I'd ask him too.
I'll admit that I've always been a little skeptical about both of their posts. They speak a lot of GWOP talking points. And this is the internet. They both claim to be men/dads, but for all I know they could be hers.
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I tend to see a middle ground here. Sure they are marketing themselves. But I don't know that it is as super-parents. Perhaps it is more as "every parent."
Every parent has kids who misbehaves.
Every parent has kids who have meltdowns.
Every parent has kids who are poicky.
Etc., etc.
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I wish that they would've said something about their relationship with Beth.
I still maintain that she is a college student and that is what has changed.
BTW Que,
Is Que short for . . . .
"Critique"
"Antique"
or
just "Que" as in . . . . "on cue"
Guinvere, when I mentioned super parents, I meant to add something about not being perfect so they can still appear real and down to earth. I meant super in the way of parents of 8, extraordinary challenges they face, etc. I still haven't quite figured it out. Sorry, my son's homework called and I never finished that thought.
Coming from an activist/government questioning family and an X-files and Lost lover, I guess I'm always looking for the "conspiracy theories." It's also a (very small) part of why I still like to watch to show - to see if I'm guessing right.
Linda, because I tend to think in conspiracy thoughts, I did link NC and Dad of 3 (and I mean no harm in doing so. Both write in similar styles and they tend to agree with my line of thought and.) To be honest, I didn't think NC would be scared off so easily.
Que is really just because I like it and it is a shortened version of queue - lately I feel like all I do is stand in line for things. I like "on cue" though! See my post on the current topic about my feeling on whether or not Beth and Kate are still friends - I bet you can guess where I stand :-).
To be honest, I didn't think NC would be scared off so easily.
In fairness to ncresident, we don't know that he (or she) is gone. Maybe he got busy.
Good point Linda. I hope he comes back, because sometimes it's lonely being on the other side. At the same time, I would enjoy more honest conversation and less game playing.
Linda-
I am that same kind of person as well...I guess that's why I just don't understand thinking the other way.
As a side note, I have to disagree with Fiona about the whole McDonalds thing. I have been that McDonalds in Park City (there is only one in that whole area, unless there is one in the Walmart close by that I have forgotten about), oh lets say...a bazillion times, it is not right in Park City itself and is just up the road from the road turning into the canyons. I have stayed in a condo right near the canyons and have actually bought food there and brought it back. Its actually very concievable (sp?)that they did this. Whether they actually did or not, I really don't care.
Kudos Mary.
I agree that this couple is damned if they do and damned if they don't. I also believe just because they chose to do this show it does NOT mean that they need to answer every detail about their lives to the public. Whether it could "clear the air" or not, an explanation is not due.
In my own life, I don't talk to my father yet my siblings do. It was a personal decision that we each made. Furthermore, not everyone in my life - including close friends - know the details regarding the estrangement. One of my best friends has been in my life for 20 years and does not know the full details. And she doesn't ask either, it's just a non-issue. If I was on a TV show I wouldn't discuss it... I just don't understand the opinion that Kate owes it to the audience.
Another thing... it's stated that filming takes place about 3 days a week. So how many hours of footage does that amount to? All we see most weeks is 22 minutes, with the occasional hour special. I would not even pretend to know anything about this family. Please think of all that is left on the cutting room floor. Please think of what might be going on the rest of the week. Just because a family or friend is not featured does not exactly mean that they have been "cut-off".
Also, Beth is a wonderful woman, and I understand the desire to defend her. Yes, she had a tremendous hand in writing that book but her role was as nothing more than a "ghost writer". There is no need for her to be a part of the book tour because it is not her story. Don't worry though, she is getting the royalty money.
Okay... this is COMPLETE SPECULATION... the first thing I thought when viewing Jon's interview is that there might be an interest for Cara to become more involved with skiing. Aren't the winter training facilities for the U.S. Olympics in Park City? My son has the opportunity to join a development soccer team for the Men's U.S. Olympic team, so that made me think that since Cara was there as well perhaps they were getting information? Again, it's just my own speculation.
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