Sunday, January 11, 2009

New Episode - ALL SMILES


The sextuplets visit the dentist for another cleaning and check up. Will they all remain calm in the chair or will there be a repeat of prior checkups? Also, Mady and Cara visit the orthodontist for the first time to find out if they both need braces.

126 comments:

nomoredrama said...

I can't decide what I want with this show. An episode like this sounds really lame but then again, I complain that I want more every day things.

Maybe this has nothing to do with the Gosselins and everything to do with my hatred of dentists:-) There is some psychoanalysis for ya.

I'll have to watch and see how this one turns out.

Anya said...

NMD - I hear you. It's a little strange to do another dentist episode, but I'll keep an open mind. A lot of times the ones that sound great from the description are just so-so and vice versa.

I am interested to see how Alexis reacts to her latest dentist visit. Hope J&K remember her binky!

Guinevere said...

Yeah, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that it's difficult to judge how enjoyable an episode will be ahead of time from the description. So I'm optimistic that it'll be a good one, with lots of cute kid moments.

SamanthaNC said...

Was it Alexis that screamed bloody murder last time? Maybe it was Leah... I can't remember but hopefully they aren't terrified this time. Poor thing.

FIONA said...

Have the Gosselin's heard about HIPPA?

I guess it doesn't apply to their kids, so Mady and Cara if they take impressions of your teeth and spread your lips so far over your teeth that you feel like your lips will rip, I sincerely hope they don't film it. It really isn't a pretty sight, and I don't think Mady will like it at all.

Well of course if Mom and Dad are getting your treatment for free, then I guess that is another story.

If the Federal Govt will protect my right to privacy regarding my health care, then it should protect the Gosselin children too.

We have already see them go in for their eye doctor appt., checkups...we know how much they all weigh, their height....that trivial information my husband does not even have access to, UNLESS I give him the right to it.

Perhaps I will be surprised tonight, but I hardly doubt it.

FIONA said...

I am interested to see how Alexis reacts to her latest dentist visit. Hope J&K remember her binky!

January 11, 2009 9:59 PM

======

I am NOT interested in how Alexis reacts at the dentist. It is her right to freak out in private...and it wasn't a binky, it was her blankie.

dotsicle said...

I hope Alexis has matured enough to the point that she does not scream for... or need... a security blanket. I imagine the kids have been to the dentist a few other times since the last televised incident, so I'd bet they all behave well.

Guinevere said...

I certainly don't think four is too old to need a comfort item. Sometimes I could use one when I go to the dentist!

Anya said...

Samantha, it was Alexis. That girl has a set of lungs on her!

Fiona, it's HIPAA - not HIPPA. HIPAA is law with very specific provisions and it is not shorthand for "medical privacy." It's possible the Gosselins might have had to sign a waiver of some sort, but we all do that anyway when we go to the doctor or dentist. At least that's my experience.

Miss Leah said...

I'm actually excited for this episode. I like the day-in-the-life ones, and the last dentist visit was cute. I assume they're going to the same dentist...maybe they keep showing dentist visits because the practice was Jon's father's.

I hope the kids do better this time. There's a big difference between three and four, and I like to see them growing up.

Saint said...

I suffer from severe dentist anxiety. I'm nervous when my kids go to the dentist, never mind when it's my turn. Yea, I could use a binky (which is what Alexis might call her "blanky," not sure though.)

Saint said...

Fiona,
I am not in the medical field. I have only a passing knowledge of HIPPA (I sign something once a year.) How does HIPPA apply or not apply to the Gosselin kids?

FIONA said...

Fiona, it's HIPAA - not HIPPA. HIPAA is law with very specific provisions and it is not shorthand for "medical privacy." It's possible the Gosselins might have had to sign a waiver of some sort, but we all do that anyway when we go to the doctor or dentist. At least that's my experience.

January 12, 2009 10:08 AM

---
Sorry, I got the letters wrong-but yes it is basically that, medical privacy-records protected, who gets access to what...I am very knowledgeable on it as I deal with it everyday at work.

Oh, I am certain that Jon and Kate had to sign away their kids right to privacy on this show.

marci said...

As a court reporter I'm asked to take doctor's depositions, patient's depositions and, in some cases, actually sit in the examining room taking down the conversation between the patient and doctor for an IME report (Independent Medical Examination) for lawsuits and insurance claims....all of which is transcribed to become a part of the public record.

Doctor's who don't do many of these depositions usually ask about making sure their patient has signed a HIPAA release form, but I never hear a word from the doctors who do depos or IMEs on a regular basis (usually the lawyer has had a client sign off for the info to become public record).

I would imagine, like anything having to do with a child's medical care, the parents would be giving permission for cameras to be in a doctor's office during an examination.

merryway said...

I thought the last medical visit before preschool served a couple of purposes. People are probably interested in their weight in a “seen how we've grown” way. Their birth was a medical phenomena. Also to show the world that the kids are healthy, are seen by doctors and it's all good. Looking forward to tonight as always.

FIONA said...

Saint,

It applies to privacy of medical information records. Essentially anytime you go into a doctor's office you are guaranteed privacy from where you sign in your name, to billing, to what you can or cannot discuss with your co-workers etc...

If anyone who treats you, where to discuss you case with someone who was not directly involved, it is a violation of your privacy rights under HIPAA.

If Jon and Kate went to a doctor's appt without the cameras and the nurse told someone at the store that Alexis came in with double ear infections, he/she would be violating HIPPA and if reported could lose their job and possibly a fine up to $25K.

But if the cameras come in a film the visit, the parents or legal guardians would sign away such rights for their minor children.

FIONA said...

Guin,

I don't think 4 is too old for a comfort item either.

If she needs it fine....but what I think is wrong is that they are filming their medical visits. Why should we await for cute moments while they are suffering anxiety, fears, tears and awkwardness?

Can't these kids have ANY privacy?

FIONA said...

Merryway,

We can see that the tups are growing, who has gained a bit more. Why should we be privy to that information?

Would you want your vital statistics on TV?

merryway said...

Would you want your vital statistics on TV?

Fiona, A Big fat NO on that one. But I am sure some people have followed these little ones since birth and find it interesting.

Guinevere said...

I understand having a philosophical objection to the kids being on TV at all (though if I felt the same I would definitely not be watching the show - I would feel morally obligated not to watch, were that the case).

But given that their lives are on TV, I don't see a dental visit as especially intrusive. Nor revealing the heights and weights of four-year olds. There are a lot of adult women who would not to reveal their weight on camera, but I hardly think it's the same thing for a four-year old child.

Even if I thought way too much was made of the bathing and potty stuff, I can better understand the argument that those things are "private" than that a dentist visit is. To me, showing the kids at the dentist is no more or less a violation of their privacy than showing them at home, in Hawaii, at a theme park, etc.

marci said...

I agree with Guin.

I think the doctor's visits are just another instance of us seeing what happens in the Gosselins' lives.

I wasn't particularly dying to know the tups' height and weight, or if one of them had an ear infection, but the rest of the visit showing how they got through six at a time was interesting.

If, however, I felt I was stepping over some moral boundary by watching this family I'd have stopped watching long ago.

They may yet come up with something that makes me feel squeemish to watch (the closest I come to that are some of Jon and Kate's interactions, not the kids), but that hasn't happened yet. If I get to that point, I'll let you know.

FIONA said...

Guin,

The Federal govt does not agree with you nor do I.

And another very good reason why someone should be regulating this show.

Do you think Kate asked Mady or Cara if it was OK to have them filmed going to the dentist?

Probably not.

Guinevere said...

Fiona, are you saying that the Gosselins are doing something illegal? I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

I don't know if Kate (OR JON) asked Mady or Cara if they wanted to be filmed. I don't know if they did or didn't, and neither do you. I don't see the point in speculating on stuff like that. I just know that if I had such a moral objection to watching such "private" moments, I would not watch.

marci said...

Fiona,

I'm pretty sure the Federal Government put these protections in place so that our private medical information is only made available or public WHERE WE SO CHOOSE and, hence, why we have to sign forms to make said info available to our insurance carrier or to send it on to another doctor we want to see.

I do not see the Federal Government taking issue with a parent choosing for their own children how that information is shared, whether with an insurance carrier, school district or whatever else a parent decides.

That just leaves us with the possible need for regulating a child's involvement on a reality show (works hours, etc.)....something I don't think would be an awful idea. But as has been said before, this is a slippery slope when you start trying to regulate a parent's ability to choose for their child.

Anya said...

Marci, thanks you saved my typing fingers some work!

I am sure that TLC, Figure 8 and the Gosselins are smart enough (and lawyered up enough LOL) to comply with any provisions of HIPAA that *might* apply in this case.

All this discussion over a dentist visit. Who knows? Maybe we will see 5 minutes of the dentist and the rest will be play time at home.

I guess we will just have to wait and see.

marci said...

At your service, Anya!

By the way, LOVE your avatar!

It makes me think of the Israelis and Palestinians in the last week or so...if they could just lob cubcakes (or just get together an eat a few) at each other I wouldn't have to keep seeing film footage of cowering, terrified children on both sides of the fight every night on tv.

Now there's a bunch of adults doing damage to their respective country's children, physical and psychological.

I'd take PottyGate, GumGate, etc., any day over that kind of trauma.

marci said...

Sorry, meant "cupcakes."

I can just imagine the animal rights people getting on me about "cubcakes." LOL

FIONA said...

It isn't right, that is all I have to say for now.

nc resident said...

I know nothing much about HIPAA except CVS will not discuss your prescriptions if you are on a cellphone. Maybe this is overkill to their understanding of this legal provision but I see Fionas point. We do not need to see this because first of all we have seen the dentist visits before. We haven't seen orthodontia visits though. Whats the point. When does the filming of drs. visits stop?

Cara and Mady may need braces Invisaline plug anyone.

happymama said...

I feel that ALL doctors or dentist visits should be private. The sad part is that the Gosselin children don't have a say in the matter. Even if the childen said no, I'm sure that Kate would still have them video taped.

TLC is running out of ideas for new episodes. It looks like TLC and Kate, don't care about the childrens privacy.

MoreCowbell said...

I don't find this any different than watching "Hopkins" last year. That was a reality show on last summer after Grey's on ABC on Thursday nights, which followed around real life doctors and patients at John's Hopkins in Baltimore. Very interesting show. And yeah, some of the patients shown were minors. As long as Mom and Dad consent to it, they can show it.

Plus, it's the DENTIST. It's not like we're following the boys to the doctor the first time he tells them to "turn your head and cough."

Boy, I remember the fun I had explaining THAT procedure to my son. "No...it's okay. Really. I know I told you that grown ups aren't allowed to touch you there. He's a doctor. It's allowed. No. Really. It is. I swear. But your doctor is the ONLY one who can."

Guinevere said...

I feel that ALL doctors or dentist visits should be private. The sad part is that the Gosselin children don't have a say in the matter. Even if the childen said no, I'm sure that Kate would still have them video taped.

Well, I'm not sure. Since neither of us know Kate, anything we say on the subject is just speculation.

Just curious though - why do you place all the blame on Kate, and none on Jon?

SamanthaNC said...

Just curious though - why do you place all the blame on Kate, and none on Jon?

Funny, how it always seems to come back to Kate instead of Jon or both of them isn't it?

I understand not wanting them to be filmed at all but I don't understand isolating a dentist visit specifically.

happymama said...

I'm not saying that I put all the "blame" on Kate. I never said that. Bottom line, who makes all the final decisions between Jon and Kate? Kate does, and that is very obvious and well known.

In their book, Multiple Blessings, Kate talks about how Jon wanted to spell Aaden's name A-i-d-e-n. But, Kate wanted it spelled A-a-d-e-n. Then Kate goes on to say, "guess who won?" Jon wanted to stop at two children, but Kate wanted more. Who won there?

Jon is a wimp. I don't think he has much say in any decisions. Kate wears the pants and the dress in the Gosselin family.

CincyMom said...

We're all feeling quite feisty tonight, heh? : )

Something I read earlier (from Guinevere?) was that sometimes the episode descriptions aren't quite what ends up happening. I agree totally on this, so hope everyone's happy in the morning when it's over.

I can't remember, but some show description of theirs had me so upset, and afterward, it wasn't even what I thought. Maybe it was St. Jude's--I don't know. But let's all see (or not!) what happens.

lulubae said...

I understand the uneasiness about having this filmed but I really think the law provides for the parents to choose and in this case they did. HIPAA pertains to sensitive and confidential information and other than the kids' reactions or general explanations of the procedures, no other sensitive information is given out. At least no more than you might just share with your neighbor.

I wonder, does the general disapproval of children's lives being put on display apply to only this show or does it go towards shows like Supernanny, Wife Swap, America's Funniest Home Videos, etc. I don't mean this to pick a fight, it's just that obviously we discuss J&K+8 here and not other shows and was wondering if it was a generalized sentiment or something based out of a general dislike of these parents or the show.

Saint said...

I know what you mean, CincyMom!
I was expecting Kate to make a big deal about her vow renewal dress at Kleinfeld's and guess what? No big deal. It was boring.

Yea, I've been promised controversy, but I don't always get it.

I guess, keeping in mind that this is supposed to be a show about raising sextuplets and twins, going to the dentist or doctor might be expected. We'll see how invasive it is. I can imagine it might be more invasive than I care for, but lately, it's been better edited. Fingers crossed!

Paula said...

lulubae said...
I wonder, does the general disapproval of children's lives being put on display apply to only this show or does it go towards shows like Supernanny, Wife Swap, America's Funniest Home Videos, etc. I don't mean this to pick a fight, it's just that obviously we discuss J&K+8 here and not other shows and was wondering if it was a generalized sentiment or something based out of a general dislike of these parents or the show.
I think IMO that it is a dislike of Kate Gosselin. No other show seems to generate this strong dislike. I thought it might be funny to hear what the haters have to say about "Snoop-Doggs Fatherhood"

Lizabeth said...

Honestly I thought this episode was kinda boring. A few things I noticed though--

*Hannah in the confessional interview with them-- Kate and Jon have both been clear that their kids are all different (duh) and thus have different needs (double duh). Because of that I was glad they took a chance and let Hannah join them in this time. It was something different, and while many may cry foul because the favourite child is getting more attention I think it shows they do try to cater to their kids individual needs.

*Kate was really nice to the workers at both the dentist and the orthodontist. Just something I thought was worth noting-- she joked around and was playful which was nice.

*GASP!! She reads to the kids!! Leah brought Kate books and she read them to her. Imagine that-- a child wanting something from their mom and the mother doing what that child wanted. :) Again-- I think Jon and Kate really try to balance the stress and busyness of having 8 kids by doing what each child needs, so when one wants more attention they give as much as they can.

I like the more normal episodes but agree something like this isn't really my cup of tea. Just not something I necessarily want to have to watch, but that doesn't make it wrong or bad.

Mom said...

Not one of my fav epis, but I did like the fact it showed how much the tups had grown and matured over 6 mos time. They seem to be very happy go lucky children.

I hated the orthodontist and I was a terrible patient. I wish my mom would have been "on me" more about making and keeping my appointments, etc. So, I'm glad K took them for the consultation and they have a plan. Boy, I was in braces for 4 years! Geez! What I would have done to only have them for 10 mos. Technology sure has come a long way!

I loved the interaction between both J and K and Hannah. It was sweet.

MoreCowbell said...

Wow. That was a whole lotta angst for nothing, it seems.

Cutest moment? Joel, given the 42 different flavor choices says, "Mango." The one flavor they don't have. And flavored GLOVES? Deluxe!

It did remind me of my "intro" visit to the orthodontist in fourth grade, right down to the "toothbrush room." Except back then, the toothbrushes weren't disposable with the toothpaste already on them. Each patient had a slot for their toothbrush and the toothbrushes were labeled with your name. Kinda gross if you think about it. I mean, I wonder who else touched my toothbrush between visits?

Actually, I think this episode was informative, especially for other children watching the show. Many children Mady and Cara's age are intimidated by the first visit to the orthodontist. I remember that it didn't hit me until I was in the office and saw patients with wires coming out of their mouths and saw the video about getting braces. Then I started to freak out. Suddenly, I wanted no part of braces, whatsoever. There is probably a child watching who is Mady and Cara's age that is scared to go to the orthodontist and afraid of being teased at school when they show up with braces. This show would be a good one for them to watch, because even Mady was pretty accepting of the whole process. She even took the "no more popcorn" rule well.

But, silly me. Actually entertaining the thought that something Kate does (or gives permission for them to film) may be a GOOD thing. What was I thinking?

Pssst. Mady. I snuck popcorn, anyway.

Saint said...

Darn, I missed it. Real life intervened!
I'd rather eat my toes than read that recap, though.

Linda said...

HIPPA is designed to prevent healthcare workers from discussing and sharing private information. If you discuss and share your own healthcare information or your child's, you are not breaking HIPPA.

My oldest could have benefitted from watching this episode about 6 months ago before his orthodontic treatment began. I thought it was informative.

merryway said...

Actually, I think this episode was informative, especially for other children watching the show.

Those were my thoughts when I was watching.

I also liked Joel asking for Mango.
It was uneventful, kind of boring, a moment in their lives and I liked it. The braces they have today are so much nicer than the ones we had to wear. Yuck.

Kate seemed calm throughout. They were nicer to each other on the couch.

Theresa said...

I agree MoreCowbell. This was a good informative show for kids who may be scared to get braces and visit to the orthodonist. I bet there will be quite a few who will embrace the idea and be more accepting because of Mady's experience.

Guinevere said...

I thought it was a cute, low-key episode. I loved Hannah in the interview chair with J&K. She's such a little cutie and obviously quite the cuddler.

dotsicle said...

Guin replied: "I certainly don't think four is too old to need a comfort item."

My statement was that I hoped Alexis had matured to the point where she no longer SCREAMS for (or needs) a SECURITY BLANKET. I think 4-and-a-half is plenty old enough to leave the blanket behind; seems as though Alexis HAS given up the blanket and brought a favorite toy instead, and she's matured to where she felt no need to scream.
I felt badly for Mady when Kate went awn and awn about how the poor kid needed MAJOR orthodontic work. I hope Mady grows up to have the prettiest smile of all the kids, I really do!

Gumby1 said...

I noticed that Kate's couch interview delivery was calmer than usual. Having Hannah present made her watch her tone, IMO.

I'm sure the GWOPPER's brains are leaking - OMG! Hannah was present! So Hannah clings to her mom, big deal. So did I.

Seeing the yellow coat and how old the kids looked, I think this show was filmed during/after the move - a filler until they reveal the new home.

I can't believe how the kids are maturing! Sorry GWOP, but the cuteness factor is still there! They are beautiful children.

Mady seemed dramatic about the Orthodontist visit, but secretly was excited to get braces. I was exactly the same way. Braces were cool!

I had braces from 4th to 12th grade, yep, I hold the world record. They only took them off because I was going away to college and I begged.

Back to work, ug, I am so not in the mood.

rain88 said...

Poor Mady, it figures she'd be the one with the horrible teeth. I think she's going to need more braces when she's older as well not just for the 10 months. I did have a visceral reaction to Kate shushing Jon on the couch. I hate being shushed like that! They looked older this episode so it must have been shot well after the soup making one.

MoreCowbell said...

Well, Mady probably WILL have the prettiest smile because she's getting early intervention by an orthodontist. I'm sure that's Kate's hope too, considering how much money they're going to shell out to these people with 6 more kids with the same genes coming down the pike. I doubt they're getting a freebie here. Maybe a small discount for the free advertising, but since it's a local orthodontist, I doubt they're in the position to be handing out free orthodontics to 8 kids.

One thing that "exploiting" these "poor children" has enabled the Gosselin's to do IS to get them to an orthodontist early and begin whatever procedures necessary. I had plenty of friends who got braces later in their teens because their parents just couldn't afford it earlier. Especially with several kids in the family who all share the same overbite gene. I was an only child, so even though it was a stretch for my parents, my orthodontia was done early. My last retainer was tossed in eighth grade. I could enter high school with no braces, headgear or retainer (I had all three at one time or another in grade school). "Poor exploited Mady" is very lucky. Her teeth will be taken care of early and by the time she starts liking boys, or going into that awkward teenage stage, her braces may be gone for good. Believe me, it's bad enough maturing, getting zits, starting your period, strapping on your first bras without having to also deal with a mouth full of metal. I had a friend that delayed her senior pictures because she still had braces. Who wants to immortalize that? No, the income the Gosselins get from this show DOES benefit these children no matter what the "advocates" think. A nicer home and the ability to actually be able to pay for things like glasses and orthodontists for eight children.

I remember was commenting to the dentist about my son's "perfect smile" when he was a kidlet (much like Kate did when she remarked about Mady's perfect smile before she lost her baby teeth). I was relieved, because my issues had tarted early because I sucked my thumb until I was five years old. It wasn't a matter of IF I would need braces, but WHEN. So, when my non-thumb sucking, no pacifier taking son went to his first dentist appointment, the Doc looked at his baby teeth and said, "Yes. They're TOO perfect. I'd like to see more room in there." Meaning, the perfect baby teeth grins are often trouble when the second set of teeth come in and there's no room for them. Luckily, it was never bad enough that my son needed braces (and my bank account thanks the teeth gods profusely).

nc resident said...

On another episode J&K could not be together so they interviewed seperately. Why not do this again? While I'm not crying Hannah is the favorite why was she shown? Why not interview Jon, then Kate? Why the need to show Kate holding Hannah, it has never been done before, just curious.

If they sit any further apart they are gonna need a widescreen shot, as both were leaning away from each other. hehe

Theresa said...

nc res-why can't you just watch the show and enjoy it without having to conjure up negative assumptions?

WACK! that's me throwing a pillow at you! :)

mariel said...

Lizabeth, would you believe the things you noticed were also noticed by others elsewhere but interpreted in an entirely different way? Shocking I know.

*Hannah in the confessional interview with them-- Kate and Jon have both been clear that their kids are all different (duh) and thus have different needs (double duh). Because of that I was glad they took a chance and let Hannah join them in this time. It was something different, and while many may cry foul because the favourite child is getting more attention I think it shows they do try to cater to their kids individual needs.

Alternate verson: Hannah's clingy bad behavior was validated by Jon and Kate because she is the favorite.

*Kate was really nice to the workers at both the dentist and the orthodontist. Just something I thought was worth noting-- she joked around and was playful which was nice.

Alternate verson: Kate was extremely rude. Her jokes were really insults and the way she said them she made everything about her.

*GASP!! She reads to the kids!! Leah brought Kate books and she read them to her. Imagine that-- a child wanting something from their mom and the mother doing what that child wanted. :) Again-- I think Jon and Kate really try to balance the stress and busyness of having 8 kids by doing what each child needs, so when one wants more attention they give as much as they can.

Alternate verson: The book Kate was reading was inappropriate for the age of the child. Kate only read it because the cameras were there. Kate was obnoxious to say the books need to be updated.

It's amazing what the difference can be between a positive outlook and a negative one. I prefer the positive myself.

Not a fan said...

I understand that you are all fans of this show (while I am not so much), but did anyone have a problem with the way Jon and Kate were making fun of Mady's teeth on the couch?

** "She's going to need major, major work"

** "There must be fairies rearrgainging her teeth while she sleeps"

** Jon making the saw sound in reference to what they can do to fix Mady's teeth.

** Kate miming pulling all of Mady's teeth

The child stated herself that she hates her teeth, why in God's name would her parents make fun of her like that? How will she feel when she see this episode?

nc resident said...

nc res-why can't you just watch the show and enjoy it without having to conjure up negative assumptions?

I simply asked a question. Facts remain we have never seen a child interviewed with them before. Fact is J&K have had a schedule conflict where each have been interviewed seperately. IMO its done to raise some attention to the show, negative or otherwise. Honestly what did you think when you saw this.

<<<<< Deciding whether to keep the pillow or throw it back. hehe

Nina Bell said...

Hey, I am allergic to feathers so lets be careful out there.

nc resident said...

Hey, I am allergic to feathers so lets be careful out there.

It's hypoallergenic thats why I'm considering keeping it. LOL

Theresa said...

Nc said..I simply asked a question. Facts remain we have never seen a child interviewed with them before. Fact is J&K have had a schedule conflict where each have been interviewed seperately. IMO its done to raise some attention to the show, negative or otherwise. Honestly what did you think when you saw this.

There's always a first time for everything. Just like any day of our lives, I'm sure their lives are busy, too. Eight times busier. So, I didn't think anything of it (the fact that we never saw a child in the interview with them before), except, we are getting a glimpse of what it's like in their household. So Hannah missed her mommy and wanted to be with her? So what. Kids have different moods and feelings on any given day, or hour for that matter. She was comforted by her mom and dad.

I guess I just don't analyze the show as hard as you do. I watch it for enjoyment and ideas on what I can pick up for my family.

Not a fan--I really think a lot of people misinterpret Jon and Kate when talking about their children. They're not making fun of their children. They weren't making fun of Mady's teeth. Mady won't have issues after she sees this episode either. She's a strong girl, as are all the kids.

NC...give me my pillow back...I'm going to have to use it on you again, I'm sure. :)

JerseyGirl said...

Speaking only for myself, I didn't think anything negative when I saw Hannah sitting there. I just noticed how beautiful she is and how she sat on both parents laps during the interview. Obviously she adores both her mom and dad. Maybe because I don't have anything against Hannah it didn't disturb me to see her.

SamanthaNC said...

Facts remain we have never seen a child interviewed with them before. Fact is J&K have had a schedule conflict where each have been interviewed seperately. IMO its done to raise some attention to the show, negative or otherwise. Honestly what did you think when you saw this.

Honestly- nothing like that crossed my mind. Hannah is a child, she wanted to be with mommy and daddy- as viewers we dont kow what lead to that. Maybe she had a bad day, was under the weather, got a "boo-boo" just before filming etc. either way I cant imagine looking at it negativley just because it hasnt been done before. But, we're all watching it through different eyes, arent we? :)

Leah said...

I had no problem with Hannah on the couch. Some kids need more attention than others - giving that attention to Hannah doesn't detract from the love they give to the others. Also, I was happy that the production people and interviewer (Jen?) just let Hannah sit there without trying to get cute soundbites from her. It was clear how comfortable Hannah is with both her parents and the camera.

I think a lot of people misinterpret the sort of comments the Gosselins make to and about their kids (Mady's teeth, Alexis is a "disturber"). It's playful joking, not cruelty. My parents always made these sorts of comments about me, and I'm definitely not scarred by it.

FIONA said...

I won't bring up HIPAA anymore-I have to take quarterly updates on it so I am sure that I am wrong!

I was appalled at how Jon and Kate went on about Mady's teeth, both from the perspective of how crooked they were and how she doesn't keep them clean enough.

If they aren't clean enough that is the parent's fault. I sent my kid back to the bathroom to rebrush MANY times, when she was 8,10,12....pretty easy to say "let me see your teeth"

I cringed for Mady when they showed her bite on the big screen for all of the world to see. Damn, Kate and Jon are so insensitive to Mady, it makes me me want to throw more than a pillow!

Yea, it might have helped a kid out there, but since when is that Mady Gosselin's job. Oh yea, it is her job...silly me! Plug away Mady, cuz Mom and Dad are going to get a nice big discount on your hardware!

I am glad they are intervening now. It is common place to get kids into braces early-and sometimes they go in phases. I don't think Mady will be finished in 10 months though.

My kiddo had a crazy bite and crooked teeth as well, but she started at 9.5. All done by 12.

Me, I had the antiquated kind as a youngster and went thru treatment again, 2 years, while my daughter was going thru. Bad TMJ, bad bite, and not enough room from the old time approach...not enough room meant extraction, which makes for a smaller mouth and problems down the rode. I ended up having my jaw broken and moved forward to realign. Worst experience of my life...but my bite is good, no more TMJ problems!

Anya said...

FIONA said...If they aren't clean enough that is the parent's fault. I sent my kid back to the bathroom to rebrush MANY times, when she was 8,10,12....pretty easy to say "let me see your teeth"

In J&K's defense, they did show at least one scene (shot earlier I believe) of Kate telling Mady to do just that.

Gumby1...I can't believe how the kids are maturing! Sorry GWOP, but the cuteness factor is still there! They are beautiful children.

I agree. I wish we had seen more snippets of them chattering among themselves, but what we saw was cute. Joel and his request for mango - adorable!

mariel said...Lizabeth, would you believe the things you noticed were also noticed by others elsewhere but interpreted in an entirely different way? Shocking I know.

"Alternate version". You are more dimplomatic than me. :-) The levels to which they have to s-t-r-e-t-c-h things to make it fit their pre-conceived agenda is unbelievable.

Saint said...I'd rather eat my toes than read that recap, though.

LMAO!!!

rain88 said...I did have a visceral reaction to Kate shushing Jon on the couch. I hate being shushed like that!

I noticed that too and agree. I think it was to let Hannah say something, but still. Not cool.

MoreCowbell - I agree with all your points.

Other things I noticed:

*I want Dr. Kristen to be MY dentist!

*The nicknames for Hannah were cute - Muffy (I think) and HJ.

*Kate appeared relaxed and upbeat in both the couch interview and at the two offices. It was a nice change from last week on the couch when she seemed tired and just going through the motions.

FIONA said...

In J&K's defense, they did show at least one scene (shot earlier I believe) of Kate telling Mady to do just that.
=====

Yea, after publicly humilating her.

Luther said...

I don't know why it matters to me, but it irks me when she is so insensitive to Jon.

The main example was when she was getting the tartar reports and instead of saying, "OK, we'll work on it!", she instantly blames Jon.

My point is, if you don't like how your husband brushes your children's teeth, get off your bum and do it yourself!

I feel better now. :)

Oh! One more thing.....can you embarrass your daughter any more by talking about how horrible her teeth are? They should be ashamed of themselves.

MoreCowbell said...

Humiliated. Right. Mady's teeth DO need correction and there's nothing humiliating about that fact. They're not ugly. They just need to be straightened. So what? She actually looked happy that she was going to be getting something that Cara wasn't and the focus was solely on her for a change. No shared spotlight.

Luther said...

There is nothing wrong with stating that your child needs dental work. Anyone with half a brain can see that. My point is that there is no need to go on and on and on and make hand gestures about how horrible her teeth are.

Anya said...

MoreCowbell said...They just need to be straightened. So what? She actually looked happy that she was going to be getting something that Cara wasn't and the focus was solely on her for a change. No shared spotlight.

Yep, another real life moment. Most kids will wear braces at some point during adolescence. Not a big deal and your point about her getting something unique from Cara is right on. I do commend J&K for getting this done early. Mady is already aware her teeth need correction and you can bet if something isn't done, other kids will begin telling her in a few years.


Luther said...My point is that there is no need to go on and on and on and make hand gestures about how horrible her teeth are.

Luther, I don't know how long you have been watching, but that is Kate. It just is. She is dramatic and she frequently exaggerates and embellishes. I understand why she is not everyone's "cup of tea" (don't understand the rabid hate - that's different). There are many of us who don't feel what she is talking about is offensive on its face, so we aren't really bothered by how she chooses to talk about it.

FIONA said...

Yes, another real life moment that Mady Gosselin was forced to share with the world.

Anya, I really don't think you see how Jon and Kate tend to pick her out of the bunch and belabor her faults. That is the issue.

I definitly see black sheep syndrome when it comes to Mady.

Nina Bell said...

Fiona,

Well I guess Mady would fit right in over here. Baaaaa

Paula said...

IMO Mady seemed really anxious when she first went to the orthodontis but as the show progressed she seemed to identify with the attention that was being bestowed on her. She really listened to the helper when she said her teeth needed a better brushing and she seemed to except the no popcorn rule . I think everyone was expecting Mady to melt down and she didn't. Now the only thing left to complain about is Kate and Jon going on about how bad her teeth are.

scarfoot said...

I personally could care less if my teeth were on TV or not. It's not like it's a pap smear or something. They're just teeth.

I also thought this was after the move because when they walked into the exam room, the screen on the wall said "Best in Berks!" Isn't that where they live now?

While not a riveting episode, I really enjoyed Hannah being there and think it would be great if they let the kids, in moderation, be there for the interviews. It was really nice to see Kate relaxed and being motherly. It's clear that both Jon and Kate love their children, and I enjoyed watching the cuddling.

I don't really get the whole HIPAA argument here, because I would think Jon and Kate, as guardians, can say or show what they want.

Saint said...

Isn't this show about a big family with six little kids? When I had little kids, sometimes they would just come up to me and sit on my lap and snuggle while I spoke with an adult. Is that what Hannah was doing? Isn't that what you'd expect in a family with a whole lot of little kids?

What was the controversy?

Theresa said...

Leah said I think a lot of people misinterpret the sort of comments the Gosselins make to and about their kids (Mady's teeth, Alexis is a "disturber"). It's playful joking, not cruelty. My parents always made these sorts of comments about me, and I'm definitely not scarred by it.
_________

Exactly! It is playful joking and sometimes family inside jokes they tell us. Sometimes J&K get animated when relaying something about their kids. Who doesn't?? If a person doesn't like J&K they cry out that J&K are being cruel, rude, etc. This is where the twisted turns of truth extrapolate into lies.


Scarfoot...thanks for the laugh! And, so true..I personally could care less if my teeth were on TV or not. It's not like it's a pap smear or something. They're just teeth.

merryway said...

I personally could care less if my teeth were on TV or not. It's not like it's a pap smear or something. They're just teeth.

You made me laugh, but I didn't think they needed to show the close ups of Mady's teeth. Kids don't necessarily want other friends to see that. If it was me, I would be dying of embarrassment, especially when it came to boys I like seeing that. Of the children, she's been given the most to have deal with in regards to the public. I hope outside the blog world that she's just adored.

Beatrice said...

I thought the orthodontist consult was informative. My daughter is due for braces this year so she thought it was interesting. I thought Jon and Kate went on one too many times about all the work Mady needs on her teeth. It came off perhaps as playful joking one time but the others weren't necessary. That said, it's great they are getting her teeth taken care of sooner rather than later.

Guinevere said...

I can't believe how the kids are maturing! Sorry GWOP, but the cuteness factor is still there! They are beautiful children.

I totally agree. I'm still enchanted with them. Seeing them speak more clearly and interact more maturely with each other and J&K makes me smile.

My statement was that I hoped Alexis had matured to the point where she no longer SCREAMS for (or needs) a SECURITY BLANKET. I think 4-and-a-half is plenty old enough to leave the blanket behind; seems as though Alexis HAS given up the blanket and brought a favorite toy instead, and she's matured to where she felt no need to scream.

She was what - just four? Not quite four? Kids that age do sometimes have fits. Heck, kids a year or two older sometimes have fits. She was scared. I don't understand being all disapproving or trying to make it sound like Alexis was abnormal or unnatural. At that age, I would be less concerned with "screaming" (she has healthy lungs!) in and of itself and just be looking at the frequency, the triggers and her responses to being comforted.

Speaking only for myself, I didn't think anything negative when I saw Hannah sitting there. I just noticed how beautiful she is and how she sat on both parents laps during the interview. Obviously she adores both her mom and dad. Maybe because I don't have anything against Hannah it didn't disturb me to see her.

Thank you. I totally agree. I thought it was really sweet to have her there. Maybe if I rummage around and find my tinfoil hat, I can find a way to put a negative and sinister spin on it, but until then, I really loved it.

I absolutely do not agree that there is anything shameful or humiliating about having crooked teeth or discussing them. Nor do I think anyone was "making fun" of Mady, much less humiliating her. J&K joke about their kids but it is never (almost never; I may be forgetting an exception) in a mean-spirited way. The way some people complain about things that are JOKES - like the teeth or the business about Pluto - makes me wonder if said people are completely without a sense of humor.

Guinevere said...

. Sometimes J&K get animated when relaying something about their kids. Who doesn't?? If a person doesn't like J&K they cry out that J&K are being cruel, rude, etc. This is where the twisted turns of truth extrapolate into lies.

You remind me of them joking at one point (they may have done it more than once, actually) about the kids being germy, complete with hand gestures and these snuffling noises. It cracked me up when J&K did that. I really do not perceive it as meant meanly AT ALL, and I don't see it as anything that would hurt the kids' feelings or scar them in any way emotionally.

merryway said...

The way some people complain about things that are JOKES - like the teeth or the business about Pluto - makes me wonder if said people are completely without a sense of humor.

Kate could sit there breathing and haters would say she was doing it wrong, that she was arrogant and “how dare she”, rip her fashion, looks, and try to read her body language.

rain88 said...

Exactly! It is playful joking and sometimes family inside jokes they tell us. Sometimes J&K get animated when relaying something about their kids. Who doesn't?? If a person doesn't like J&K they cry out that J&K are being cruel, rude, etc. This is where the twisted turns of truth extrapolate into lies.


I don’t agree. I think sometimes what J&K say does sound cruel, like when they made fun of Joel’s lisp. I don’t hate Jon and Kate. When I saw the part of that episode my gut reaction was “awww, that’s mean”. My husband and I tease our daughter about her goofy run when she plays soccer. No way would I make fun of her in a group of her friends about it. Maybe Joel will always think it’s funny that his parents mimicked his lisp on TV for all to see but I wish they would err on the side of caution when there could be a hint of embarrassment for their kids. Some of it is playful (like Alexis’ mispronunciation of alligator) but I believe they have crossed the line to cruel at times.

FIONA said...

Nina,

I didn't laugh...

Theresa,

That is right INSIDE family jokes-but there is nothing INSIDE for this family. And I still think Jon and Kate single out Mady.

FIONA said...

I absolutely do not agree that there is anything shameful or humiliating about having crooked teeth or discussing them. Nor do I think anyone was "making fun" of Mady, much less humiliating her. J&K joke about their kids but it is never (almost never; I may be forgetting an exception) in a mean-spirited way. The way some people complain about things that are JOKES - like the teeth or the business about Pluto - makes me wonder if said people are completely without a sense of humor.

January 13, 2009 3:23 PM

====

Jokes hurt sometime. Especially if you are the brunt of them alot.

FIONA said...

Rain,

I agree and glad someone else gets it. Sometimes I wonder what people who watch this show are really like-what boundaries they have of their own for how they treat other people and their children

Guinevere said...

I agree and glad someone else gets it. Sometimes I wonder what people who watch this show are really like-what boundaries they have of their own for how they treat other people and their children

Coincidentally, I wonder the same thing about the haters. I'm also glad that there are people who "get" playful teasing and do not take everything absolutely literally.

Theresa said...

Fiona said That is right INSIDE family jokes-but there is nothing INSIDE for this family. And I still think Jon and Kate single out Mady.

January 13, 2009 4:01 PM


That's the whole point of the show Fiona...to give us a peak to what it's like raising two sets of mulitples. They are allowing us into their family life. There is indeed inside info we are not privvy to...we have gone thru that on past threads.

I think Jon & Kate do not single out Mady. I do think they are aware that she does require a different kind of attention. All kids are different. It doesn't mean they don't love her any less. They are all loved children. Anyone on both sides of the fences can see that.

Luther said...

Anya,

I have been watching Kate from the beginning. Even though that is "just Kate", it in no way excuses her behavior. No one has the right to embarrass their child on tv.

If Maddie began a fifteen minute diatribe on Kate's hair, I don't think Kate would think too fondly of that.

It's simple. Maddie is a child, and her self esteem should be handled with care. Kids have enough to deal with these days; they shouldn't have to worry what's going to be on their weekly television show.

Not meaning to start a word war here, but this whole dental episode struck a nerve with me.

Guinevere said...

To expand on my comment above about wondering about the haters: according to the Princess Marie Chantal boards, a poster at GWoP pronounced it "gross" that Hannah was sitting on Jon's lap. This comment was apparently removed, or at least I can't find it any more, but I did find a lovely reference to Hannah "laying on Jon with her legs wide open" (which necessitated a mention of "Mady giving crotch shots" in an earlier episode).

These women are sick. The posters who wrote these things are sick, the mods who approved these comments are sick, and the posters who continue to bathe in such a cesspool of perverted thinking are sick. I don't say this lightly, but I seriously hope none of these women have children.

Gah, the number of posters who pronounced themselves "disgusted" and "nauseated" by the sight of parents giving affection to their child is bad enough, but to have women making insinuations about Jon and sexualizing the way a 4-year-old is sitting...I just don't even know what to say.

Lizabeth said...

Make sure you check out the TLC website for the webisodes-- there is an adorable one that is new all about Dusty, Alexis' stuffed leopard. Absolutely adorable though--they show a couple other clips of Lexi with her special toy, and Kate tells the back story of how he became their 'family mascot.'

Theresa said...

Guin-

That is beyond belief. Totally agree with you.

Those kinds of sick posts are the point where sites should be shut down and people arrested, that's how strongly I feel about those perverts.

I seriously hope none of those women have children either.

rain88 said...

I agree, Guin. They really need to monitor that site better. I read through that Dentist thread, some horrible things were said, one post in particular was sickening.

A Mom-ynous said...

Egads! Fiona.

The parents are the ones who sign the HIPAA (whatever spelling!) forms to begin with.

Geesh!

I'm sure Baby Story didn't get the newborns permission either.

They aren't showing the kids files in detail on camera. We are seeing basic stuff.

The conspiracy theory is a bit much.

They haven't signed away their kids rights and filming an impression or a cleaning? In general isn't a big deal.

HIPAA doesn't protect patients and their temper tantrums. Unless they begin requiring sound proof rooms, I'm sure everyone in the building heard whomever scream.

A Mom-ynous said...

And discussing old enough to _____.

I am in my 30s and will still whimper like a baby when I get shots or needles of any kind.

I still need to lie down.

I will grab any and all comfort items I can get my hands on.

Medical staff can in no way speak about what they are about to do. It is all about distracting me.

History of passing out. Haven't passed out in 17 years and would like to keep it that way. (after 2nd time, we developed my "protocol" for dealing with needles)

Phobias are irrational by nature. Being old enough to "know better"--doesn't make the fear go away nor make it rational over time.

Knocking a 4-year old for not liking the dentist is inappropriate.

And if anyone takes issue with my phobia--I would gladly let you have it instead. :)

A Mom-ynous said...

"The Federal govt does not agree with you nor do I."



Fiona--you are mistaken.

Medical records access is not being provided. The parents retain the right to make choices for their minor children.

It is no different then you telling a fellow parent that your child has a sore throat.

The cameras being at those offices doesn't violate HIPPAA in anyway shape or form.

Children cannot give consent--remember?

That is the whole anti-Gosselin argument.

If HIPPA were to apply to not permitting parents to film, photograph their children with or without a crew in a medical/dental setting, then it would have to apply to you not being permitted to convey ANYTHING about your children to your friends regarding ANYTHING about their health.

You are seriously misinterpreting the law.

We do not have access to the Gosselin children's records.

Anya said...

Make sure you check out the TLC website for the webisodes-- there is an adorable one that is new all about Dusty, Alexis' stuffed leopard. Absolutely adorable though--they show a couple other clips of Lexi with her special toy, and Kate tells the back story of how he became their 'family mascot.'

Oh my gosh, Lizabeth, thank you. I can't tell you how much I needed that! Absolutely adorable!

Nina Bell said...

Fiona

I agree and glad someone else gets it. Sometimes I wonder what people who watch this show are really like-what boundaries they have of their own for how they treat other people and their children.

I am not really understanding of this statement since you are an avid viewer.

JerseyGirl said...

Guinevere - you hit the nail on the head with your comments about the people who are sexualizing the G kids. These are the same people who used the words "money shot" in reference to Mady playing on a blanket. Yesterday, I saw someone said that seeing the kids get their teeth cleaned is a pedophiles dream. Who in their right mind even thinks that way?

Add in the comments about Jon and Hannah and the only perverts I see are the GWOPers.

FIONA said...

Amomymous,

NO, I am not misinterpreting HIPAA. I understand it completely.

My point was the fact that HIPAA affords everyone, including children protection under the act, including filming of a procedure.

I know this very well. Whenever our research facility gets a knew piece of equipment, a news team comes out to film. Every pt. near enough to be in the shot, or the actual pt. consenting to be filmed has to sign a consent.

Even though HIPAA stands to protect minor children, in the case of the G kids they haven't given consent to be FILMED. It is very different then Kate telling someone, "I took Mady for impressions and xrays for her braces".

This medical issue for me is much different than "filming them at the park". Maybe someday there will exsist rules and regulations about what a parent can allowed to be shown on TV.

At this rate Mady's first pap smear could very well be filmed...and I say this with hesitation....but where do you draw the line with what is acceptable...wisdom teeth removal OK, turn your head and cough, not OK.

FIONA said...

Nina,

I reread my comment and thought it was perfectly clear.

Enough said.

FIONA said...

I think Jon & Kate do not single out Mady. I do think they are aware that she does require a different kind of attention. All kids are different. It doesn't mean they don't love her any less. They are all loved children. Anyone on both sides of the fences can see that.

January 13, 2009 4:33 PM

====

Well they sure give her plenty of negative attention on camera.

Guinevere said...

Fiona, I believe Nina's point was (not to speak for Nina) that since you are a viewer of the show, are you including yourself in that "wondering"?

I just don't think it's appropriate to insult people and impugn them as parents and human beings simply because they disagree with you about a television show.

Saint said...

I really don't know what HIPAA says, so I am asking Fiona, do you think that the dentist or oethodontist has violated HIPAA regulations by permitting this episode to be partly filmed in their offices?

Nina Bell said...

I agree and glad someone else gets it. Sometimes I wonder what people who watch this show are really like-what boundaries they have of their own for how they treat other people and their children.

I guess then my response to you would be to look at yourself first. You are an avid watcher. What makes you think anyone else who views this show would have different parenting skills than yourself. Why would they treat their children and other people any different than you would.

Guinevere said...

Well they sure give her plenty of negative attention on camera.

I think they are simply honest about her issues.

I understand that you and others have a problem with the entire concept of the show. But beyond that, I don't understand the preference for a sanitized and unrealistic view of the Gosselin family. Don't show this, don't show that. It's not "Ozzie and Harriet". It's not some fictionalized take on their lives. J&K have been clear that they don't want that, and I think I understand why and agree with them on it.

What does "reality" mean to some people? It just seems like the expectation is that ANYTHING - from crooked teeth to a perfectly normal 3-year-old's tantrum - that does not portray the Gosselin children as absolutely perfect is seen as damaging and harmful. I would think it would be more damaging and harmful to have a twisted, over-edited and unrealistic vision of the Gosselin kids that strips away their personalities and leaves sweet and smiling automatons in their place.

I've watched a fair amount of reality TV, and you often see people at their worst. For its faults, "J&K+8" shows a complete picture of a family - flaws and virtues. I can name good points and bad points about every member that family. They are HUMAN BEINGS, and they come across as such on camera. Why is that seen as so shameful by some?

Saint said...

Sometimes I wonder what people who watch this show are really like-what boundaries they have of their own for how they treat other people and their children.


With so many viewers, I'd bet there are all sorts of people with all sorts of different "boundaries" for how they treat themselves and their children, depending on the situation. I'd bet the viewers of this show are representative of the greater population, with perhaps slightly more women aged 18-50 years in the group. I doubt they all think alike, knowing that posters at GWoP and GDNNOP watch the show. I hope that helps you out.

FIONA said...

Saint said...
I really don't know what HIPAA says, so I am asking Fiona, do you think that the dentist or oethodontist has violated HIPAA regulations by permitting this episode to be partly filmed in their offices?

January 14, 2009 10:48 AM
===

As long as everyone was informed there would be cameras recording and they may or may not be included in said footage, and a consent was signed, then no HIPAA was not violated.

If you noticed there were pts. in chairs being worked on, so a release should have been signed.

FIONA said...

Guin,

I understand what you are saying, and I think they can still put out their product, "unsanitized" without humiliating their children and making sure some boundaries are in place.

Talking about Mady's ugly behavior and teeth rot on TV seems to me to be cruel and just not necessary.

Paula said...

Mady did not seem to be humiliated , in fact she seemed to enjoy the attention.

rain88 said...

I've watched a fair amount of reality TV, and you often see people at their worst. For its faults, "J&K+8" shows a complete picture of a family - flaws and virtues. I can name good points and bad points about every member that family. They are HUMAN BEINGS, and they come across as such on camera. Why is that seen as so shameful by some?

Guin, I tried in a previous post to explain my feelings about what is shameful about some of the things J&K say about their kids but I have trouble putting my thoughts into words. It's not the adults on reality shows I worry about. When kids are involved it's different. The Gosselin children didn't sign up for this. I think J&K should be more sensitive about what scenes are shown, and definitely more sensitive about what they say about their kids. I do have a good sense of humour and can laugh at the antics, but sometimes I think they go too far.

JerseyGirl said...

Fiona-When and where did Jon and or Kate ever talk about Mady having "teeth rot"? I saw them talking about her teeth issues this week but it was never implied by anyone that I saw that her teeth were rotted.

Perhaps I missed that episode and you could guide me to it.

SamanthaNC said...

Sometimes I wonder what people who watch this show are really like-what boundaries they have of their own for how they treat other people and their children.

I realize that this has already been addresses but I didnt see a direct answer from you Fiona. Are you seperating yourself from the rest of us viewers? Personally, I'm so protective of my child that I won't allow her to wear her school shirt (it has the name emblazoned in neon print)anywhere but school, bc I'm paranoid.

Anya said...

rain88 said...When kids are involved it's different. The Gosselin children didn't sign up for this. I think J&K should be more sensitive about what scenes are shown, and definitely more sensitive about what they say about their kids.

Rain, I think you make a really excellent point and if there is one area I struggle with it, it's the impact the show has on the children, specifically, Mady and Cara, and more specifically, Mady.

I don't have an easy answer and I am not sure of how concerned I need to be. It's somewhat of an uncharted territory. I do have faith that J&K love their children and believe they are doing the very best for them, but that doesn't mean I don't have some concerns.

Anyway, I just wanted to acknowledge that even those of who routinely defend the Gosselins *do* think about these issues.

Guinevere said...

Guin, I tried in a previous post to explain my feelings about what is shameful about some of the things J&K say about their kids but I have trouble putting my thoughts into words. It's not the adults on reality shows I worry about. When kids are involved it's different. The Gosselin children didn't sign up for this. I think J&K should be more sensitive about what scenes are shown, and definitely more sensitive about what they say about their kids. I do have a good sense of humour and can laugh at the antics, but sometimes I think they go too far.

I can appreciate that. I know the kids didn't sign up for it but it impacts them anyway. (As an aside, I'd just like to point out that this is often true of decisions parents make for kids - about moving to another state, or the parents getting a divorce, or whatever - it's not unique to being on TV).

I was giving it a little thought about why it doesn't bother me (which doesn't mean that it won't bother the some of the kids down the line; I don't know about that one way or another). I think one of the things is that their criticisms of their kids - whether it's calling Alexis a disturber or Mady difficult or Joel disgruntled with the world (a description that still cracks me up) - in and of themselves, it seems to me that the willingness to vocalize these things indicates an acceptance of them. I mean, I don't feel like any of these things are ever said with disgust or disdain or anger or meanness. So the fact that they are said, matter-of-factly - it seems to be a way of saying, "these are our kids, they aren't perfect, and that's okay."

Maybe I'm not making sense. Again, I can understand looking at it from the POV of how OTHERS may judge them for what J&K say about them. But I think J&K have made it clear that they, at least, don't live their lives worrying about that. If they can raise their kids to be equally self-confident and self-assured, I think they'll be fine.

rain88 said...

Anya and Guin, thanks for your responses. My concerns really are about the kids no matter what I feel about Jon and Kate. I hope you're right and they'll be fine.

FIONA said...

As rough as a divorce is on a child, being on a TV reality show since you were too young to remember anything differently, to not even know that it is not the way regular families live, to have your private moments preserved for entertainment on DVD, just isn't the same as Dad getting transferred to another state.

And I disagree that comments made by the parents are not without judgement and disdain. Mady takes the brunt.

Guinevere said...

And I disagree that comments made by the parents are not without judgement and disdain. Mady takes the brunt.

It just seems like there's always one of the kids that certain people decide are especially mistreated by J&K. First it was Joel. Then it was Alexis (so ridiculous! - you can see how happy a child she is, and I can think of two examples where Kate bent her rules about "space-wasting" stuffed animals just for Alexis' sake).

Then there is Mady. I was watching one of the Hawaii trip episodes last night - when they are on the boat trip. In the end, Kate overcomes her fears about going in the water and is so enthralled with it that she coaxes Mady out. Why don't the haters ever comment on this sort of thing? If Kate is as self-centered as they say, if she really doesn't care about Mady, why would she try so hard to get Mady to come into the water? She did it because she knows Mady loves animals, and she didn't want her to miss the experience. I could take some of the negative stuff more seriously if perhaps the people spouting it would acknowledge the positive stuff once in a while.

FIONA said...

It is Kate's responsibility as Mady's mother to encourage her, to help her overcome her fears, not to instill new ones and certainly not to insult her.

What Mady saw at first on the boat trip was a Mother who didn't even want to set foot on the boat, a Mother with a bad attitude.

Kate was coaxed in the water, finally, and so was Mady.

The kid gets so many mixed messages. And I just don't see it with Alexis or Joel so much. The lisping comments are insensitive since he will need speech therapy to get rid of that-

I just think with Mady she gets the short end of the stick more often than not from what I see on TV.

Maybe when the cameras aren't rolling it isn't that way at all-perhaps it is Hannah they demean.

All speculation, right?

Guinevere said...

It is Kate's responsibility as Mady's mother to encourage her, to help her overcome her fears, not to instill new ones and certainly not to insult her.

What Mady saw at first on the boat trip was a Mother who didn't even want to set foot on the boat, a Mother with a bad attitude.

Kate was coaxed in the water, finally, and so was Mady.


What I'm getting from you is that you are setting an impossibly high standard for Kate. Did you set such a high standard for yourself?

Were you never allowed to be scared of anything, for fear of instilling that phobia in your daughter? (Kate did not have a "bad attitude" - she was scared. She's a fearful person.)

Do you deserve no credit for all of the right things you did as a mother, because that was your "responsibility", nothing more and nothing less? I abhor the whole concept of "supermoms" and the competitive aspects of being a good mother, but I disagree that mothers don't deserve any credit at all when they encourage their kids, because they are only doing what is expected of them.

When you made mistakes as a parent (assuming you made mistakes; maybe you didn't), did you deserve any understanding, or did you deserve only relentless criticism?

I just don't see how it is at all helpful or fair to hold a mother to such a standard - where all mistakes are subject to harsh criticism and all of the good choices that are made are ignored or dismissed as being the minimum that one would expect of the mother.

SamanthaNC said...

Personally, I loved the Hawaii episode bc of the way we got to see Kate delight in Leah's learning to swim, Alexis's love of looking underwater and the way she convinced Mady to come out in the water bc she couldnt bare her daughter missing out on such an amazing experience bc of fear- something she can definitley relate to. It's obvious to me how much she loves her children.

MoreCowbell said...

I don't know. What I'm getting is there are a lot of people here that think that crooked teeth and an overbite is something to be ashamed of, and that Kate pointing out those "flaws," is humiliating her daughter. Thanks. I had no idea that I was such an ugly duckling and that my mother, who basically did the same thing as Kate, hauling me in front of her friends and matter-of-factly pointing out what the orthodontist was going to do to me, was cruel and unusual punishment. Once I got over the initial shock, I thought braces were cool, and I actually wore my head gear to school, occasionally (that's the appliance worn outside the mouth because my jaw needed to be moved into alignment as well). Color me stupid for not being offended.

Oh, and I probably should unload about the whole seventh grade thing. Not only did I have a retainer in my mouth, but I got my first pair of glasses AND my mother forced me to get my hair cut in a Dorothy Hamill wedge. Did I mention that that cut looked good on Dorothy because she had STRAIGHT hair, and I do not? I had freaking WINGS coming out of the side of my head. Talk about cruel. Braces, glasses and a BOY'S haircut. God, she should have been more compassionate and thoughtful, but NO. She compounded my awkward stage (and did I mention having to wear a real bra then, too, which she also forced on me) by TELLING PEOPLE all about the work they did in my mouth and "You should have seen her teeth three years ago."

Thanks Mom. NOT!

I guess calling my son The Unibomber until he got a haircut last week probably makes me a bad mom, too.

SamanthaNC said...

Morecowbell-

I'm laughing so hard you made me spit a little. I feel your pain fellow curly sue. Some(many) haircuts dont work with our hair- thank God for flatirons.

MoreCowbell said...

Better "spitting a little" than "peeing a little." I hate it when THAT happens!

Anya said...

Ok, ladies, I think we share the same hair gene. Sigh. All pictures of me in the 8th grade have been destroyed and if I find them in the possesion of former classmates, I will have to kill them.

As to your larger point, MCB, you are entirely correct, IMO. None of us leaves childhood unscathed. There are a million reasons for us not to fit in or to look back and cringe at our childood.

Maybe it is who we are and how we present that to the world (too shy or too dramatic, overweight, bad hair, bad teeth, short, tall, dorky clothes, etc. etc.) Or maybe it's the choices our parents make for us before we are old enough to make decisions for ourselves. Maybe our parents even exacerbate delicate situations (often innocently). The point is, in my humble opinion, if the home contains an abundant amount of love, the vast majority of kids get through it and can even chuckle about it at a certain stage of life (witness MCB's post).

With eight kids, it stands to reason there will be bumps along the road to adulthood, but I see nothing going on that makes me think the road the Gosselin children are going to travel is that much harder a path than children before them.

SamanthaNC said...

Well said Anya!

FIONA said...

Yes, Guin, I do set a high standard for myself as a mother, my most important job, role, responsibility to put forth into this world the most secure, confident, self-sufficient, compassionate person that I possibly can-my fears or phobias aside-my child is my priority, and unless you are a mother you won't understand the feeling entirely.

What you are getting from me Guin is my feelings on Kate from what I have observed for 3.5 years.

First of all, from what I recall Kate herself said she was "not interested" in going on the boat. A term she has used many times for things she just doesn't want to do or is uncomfortable with. I equate that with letting opportunities pass you by because you are afraid or uncomfortable to try new things. Such as when they were in California and she didn't want to do the hike up the rock. OK, then remove yourself so your children don't see your overwrought anxiety, same as with the lighthouse. Sometimes when you are a mom, actually alot of times, you have to do things you wouldn't normally do, things you are not comfortable with. And yes, I do think that has rubbed off on her children in a negative way, such as how she gender types the kids. Girls do this, boys don't do this.

I don't look for credit of any kind in being a parent, nor do I feel I am a super Mom. I am a Mom who has always put my child's best interests first. Has she seen me wrought with fear-no I don't think so. There was a big toad in our back yard when she was about 8 years old, Dad wasn't home, the dogs were freaking out about it, and my daughter wanted to take it to the stream. So I pulled myself together and captured it with a pot and pan, all the while it bouncing around. I screamed like a little girl, but we took it to the stream and that was that.

I have made mistakes. I don't think Kate's mistakes equal mine. She has taken a different path with the children she is supposed to protect and teach.
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GUIN SAID:
I just don't see how it is at all helpful or fair to hold a mother to such a standard - where all mistakes are subject to harsh criticism and all of the good choices that are made are ignored or dismissed as being the minimum that one would expect of the mother.
====
First of all, I never became a Mom to get a pat on the back.

Kate has put herself in TV and it is human nature to speculate and talk about her parenting. She is subject to criticism and that is just the way it is.

If I had a TV show, then I guess I would have to prepare myself for the same.

Guinevere said...

Yes, Guin, I do set a high standard for myself as a mother, my most important job, role, responsibility to put forth into this world the most secure, confident, self-sufficient, compassionate person that I possibly can-my fears or phobias aside-my child is my priority, and unless you are a mother you won't understand the feeling entirely.

Just as you can't understand what it is like to have sextuplets and eight kids close in age.

With all due respect, the best way to teach such attributes as compassion is to model them oneself.

Has she seen me wrought with fear-no I don't think so. There was a big toad in our back yard when she was about 8 years old, Dad wasn't home, the dogs were freaking out about it, and my daughter wanted to take it to the stream. So I pulled myself together and captured it with a pot and pan, all the while it bouncing around. I screamed like a little girl, but we took it to the stream and that was that.

I hope she wasn't traumatized by you screaming like a little girl. Since I allow mothers to also be human beings, I don't judge you, but by your own standards it seems to me that you failed there.

I have made mistakes. I don't think Kate's mistakes equal mine.

Well, you know, it's not a contest.

First of all, I never became a Mom to get a pat on the back.

You don't understand. It's not about a "pat on the back". And it's not even about being a mother, particularly - it could apply to any situation. If you are willing to give criticism, you should be willing to give praise. I just don't think it works to say, when someone does something wrong, I'm going to judge them, but when they do something right, they don't get anything because they are only doing what I expect of them. People need positive reinforcement as well as negative.

Kate has put herself in TV and it is human nature to speculate and talk about her parenting. She is subject to criticism and that is just the way it is. If I had a TV show, then I guess I would have to prepare myself for the same.

Yes, and by judging others in a public forum, one becomes subject to criticism herself. It is not a situation unique to being on television.

FIONA said...

With all due respect, the best way to teach such attributes as compassion is to model them oneself.
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Um, yea! And we see Kate doing this so much! I can make a list of time when Kate was less than compassionate, actually mean towards her children while she attempts to parent with fear and bulliness.

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I have made mistakes. I don't think Kate's mistakes equal mine.

Well, you know, it's not a contest.

====

No, I realize that. But I am not on TV.

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First of all, I never became a Mom to get a pat on the back.

You don't understand. It's not about a "pat on the back". And it's not even about being a mother, particularly - it could apply to any situation. If you are willing to give criticism, you should be willing to give praise.

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I have given praise to Kate when I felt the situation warrented it.

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Kate has put herself in TV and it is human nature to speculate and talk about her parenting. She is subject to criticism and that is just the way it is. If I had a TV show, then I guess I would have to prepare myself for the same.

Yes, and by judging others in a public forum, one becomes subject to criticism herself. It is not a situation unique to being on television.

January 16, 2009 6:31 PM

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Well, you may be right and I have received my fair share. But this blog isn't about me. I state my thoughts and opinions as you do yours.