Friday, January 9, 2009

OPEN DISCUSSION



97 comments:

Saint said...

MMMMM A new thread. It's like fresh sheets! :)

I needed a shower for some reason? All clean now! :)


Thanks Merryway!

Anya said...

Saint, glad you got the muck off!

Fresh sheets and a newly made bed are one of my very favorite things in the whole world! A good book and no interuptions and I just couldn't be happier!

Nina Bell said...

Hey Saint

How was the shower,

Nina Bell

aka ninacompoop

MonicaW42 said...

Did anyone catch Patrick Swayze on Barbara Walters tonight? Sad..... He has lost sooo much weight. I love you Patrick but please STOP smoking. It's nice to see a "Hollywood" marriage that has sustained. And yeah, I cried when his wife started crying.

SamanthaNC said...

Fresh sheets and a newly made bed are one of my very favorite things in the whole world! A good book and no interuptions and I just couldn't be happier!

Que a nice rain storm and a clean house and I'm OVERJOYED!

----------------------------------

About the Patrick Swayze interview, I saw a preview earlier and couldnt bring myself to watch it- too sad.

Anya said...

Monica, :-(. I think that would make me too sad to watch tonight (stressful day). I'll probably try and catch some of it online tomorrow. I am glad he has such a strong marriage. Bless them.

Samantha, yes, yes, yes! We think alike.

Anya said...

Nina/Ninacompoop - I see you have become so popular that certain sites have to mention your name to try and increase their blog traffic.

Kind of sad.

Guinevere said...

Anya, is your avatar a water-filter pitcher? I had no idea you were rich! :-)

I saw a minute or two of the Swayze interview. He was talking about the tabloids. I'd never really thought much about the fact that the Enquirer weekly blaring his imminent death is stressful for his loved ones. I mean, obviously the tabloids and the paparazzi are a blight that celebrities have to deal with, but when you're talking about someone's life and death, the stakes are quite a bit higher.

Mary said...

I saw the promo for the Swayze interview. I just can't watch. He is so thin and when they showed the pic of his wife putting her head down to cry, I just about wanted to scream at B Walters. Course, Swayze didn't have to do the interview but I'm sure he wants to set the record straight and shoot down the tabloid rumors.

I still can't believe this is happening to him. I really think that he is one of the good guys.

OK all, what is google cache? It's mentioned over and over and I haven't a clue.

Saint said...

Guinevere,
I agree that it all gets out of hand. They've been picking apart the Travolta boy's death, hoping for a chance to proclaim "breaking news." Now this? They seem like vultures, circling overhead, waiting for the chance to joyfully consume their tidbits.

Leave the family alone.

Theresa said...

I watched bits of the interview. I, too, wish he would stop smoking, but I guess he enjoys his smokes and if that makes his last days happier. Although, it was very sad to see his wife almost break down. I think it's such a shame he is suffeing from an incurable illness. But, I'm glad he's making people aware of symptoms of it. He's helping people doing this interview. Wonder how many identified with how he felt and made it a point to make a doctor's appointment just to check out how lousy they've been feeling.

Seeing Barbara Walters made me think of how she stuck her foot in her mouth the other day on the View. It was Monday and they were talking about the New Year's celebration and she brought it up how Dick Clark is "hard to watch" and they went to a clip of him talking on NY Eve. I thought that's like calling the kettle black. SHE is very hard to watch with her blabbing on about stuff that a former-respected journalist should keep her mouth shut on. You could tell Whoopi was holding back and embarrassed.

Ok,I'm blabbing like Barbara now...sorry.

Lizabeth said...

Saint, I gotta say that after yesterday I am feeling motivated to seek the positive side of life even more.

And I have to agree that having fresh sheets and lavender scented pillowcases along with a rainy evening and a good book is pretty much perfection :).

And Anya your avatar is despicable. How dare you parade around here with your wealth?? Don't you know we are common, regular people who don't have the luxury of *filtered* water??? *sniff* :)

OK moving on-- anyone here listen to country music? I am loving Taylor Swift's new album, Fearless. She has a great voice, writes her songs, plays her own music, and just seems like the kind of girl that would be really fun to hang out with. The song "White Horse" is really poignant to me now but the whole thing is just great.

Rachel107 said...

Speaking of Taylor Swift, did you know she is originally from the same town as J&K, Wyomissing? And the circle is compete...

Lizabeth said...

Rachel, I had no idea!! Hahah-- that is so awesome-- I just got the CD off of iTunes last night so thought I'd mention how much I liked it on here... how funny that it actually connects to Jon and Kate in some way :).

Guess its the 6 degrees of separation-- Gosselin style :).

FIONA said...

Saint,

Are you visitng another site? How dare you? :) I can't believe (well, yes I can, that BM posted all that personal info regardless if it is public or not)

I work with cancer pts, and unfortunely pancreatic ca is the worst-you don't beat it.

Nina Bell said...

Fiona

Not to turn this thread into a downer, but what is the cure rate on pancreatic cancer? Do you happen to know?

FIONA said...

Did anyone catch the rerun of Cupcake Mania?

Geez, Kate really was a meanie in that episode. Really, hold the cupcakes over their head all day, and not let them eat them! I think she should have just let them have as a snack at the bakery...they were covered with their aprons!

However, Joel's "Oh My" over the frosting is my all time favorite line ever. He was SO delighted!

FIONA said...

0% survival. The oncologists can extend life to some degree with very agressive infusions, but it is incurable.

I think Patrick is fighting very, very hard and I am surprised he is still alive.

It is one of the toughest and most painful cancers I have seen people go thru. It is a death sentance.

Nina Bell said...

That is what I thought. Thanks

MonicaW42 said...

Michael Landon (Little House On The Prairie) had pancreatic cancer and died within months of diagnoses, so it is indeed amazing that Patrick S. is still alive. I wish with all the technology out there that they find some cures to these cancers.

merryway said...

I remember being surprised at how quickly Michael Landon's death came. I adored him growing up. I remember in 5th grade we had all seen I Was a Teenage Werewolf on tv and the girls talking about how cute he was. Those were the days when you had maybe 7 - 8 channels and everybody watched the same thing.

I didn't see the interview with Patrick Swayze. I will miss his work if he doesn't make it. It sounds doubtful.

Anya said...

Mary said...OK all, what is google cache? It's mentioned over and over and I haven't a clue.

I didn't know until I started visiting this board either!

I don't understand it from a technical standpoint, but it allows you to see some web pages that have been removed.

Have you ever type something in Google, clicked on a link and had it say "page not found." Try the cache.

You will see it very light blue lettering next to the url. Here is an example when I typed "Brad Pitt" in Google:

www.imdb.com/name/nm0000093 - 81k -Cached

Click on the "Cached" link next time you find a "page not found."

Anya said...

Lizabeth said...And Anya your avatar is despicable. How dare you parade around here with your wealth?? Don't you know we are common, regular people who don't have the luxury of *filtered* water??? *sniff* :)

Sorry if you don't like it Lizabeth. That's how Jon & Kate and I roll!

We enjoy flaunting our stoves, water filters, organic food and other very high-end products in ya face!!!

FIONA said...

I was heartbroken when Charles Ingalls died.

He went the holistic way....was taking coffee colincs.

Lizabeth said...

On the google cache thing, one thing I have learned (especially lately) is the you can subscribe in google reader (through a gmail account) to different blogs through their RSS feed. That way when you click on Google Reader it automatically uploads every post that is published by the blog owner.

This means that if something is set to be published later on, it appears in google reader as soon as its in the blog system (which is usually before it hits the website). It also means that even if you delete an entry (or an entire blog in some cases) it will still appear on google reader. This is only for actual blog posts, not comments (though you can subscribe to those also in some blogs) but re-reading old posts which have since been deleted is very eye opening.

Just figured it was worth filling ya'll in-- I am always amazed at what Google Reader comes up with!! So many old blogs that have since been deleted or changed or edited and the whole thing really is still available online (kinda like the cache version).

Guinevere said...

My understanding is that one of the reasons that pancreatic cancer is so deadly is because it does not manifest symptoms early; people are often in the late stages when they are diagnosed. I did see enough last night to hear Swayze's doctor say that Swayze was in Stage 4, the final stage, when he was diagnosed.

I have mixed feelings about Swayze's smoking. I abhor smoking; both my parents smoked and my mother died of lung cancer. Obviously, Swayze's chances would be better if he stopped smoking. How much better, I can't say, but we know it would be a positive thing for his health.

OTOH, I don't feel like I can say that a dying man should be forced to do something as difficult as quitting smoking is. That just seems cruel.

nc resident said...

Fiona as I have quit smoking 3 years ago, is that one of the cancers directly linked to smoking. Some other cancers might be other things but this pancreatic cancer seems to be directly linked to smokers. Good luck for him and his family.

Saint said...

Fiona, I did not know that ANY cancer was always fatal. Depressing.

I am not away visiting anwhere(anymore.) I think I made my point with very little said.

I caught the the filtered water talk at the princess site today. They highlight the most absurd posts, sometimes I think the comments are fake. Are there really and truly people offended by the Brita Water Pitcher? (That's my product endorsement.) Wow!

indianprincess said...

I didn't watch the interview with Patrick..Sounded so sad to me. I almost fell off my seat when I read "ninacompoop" after coming back from a different blog. I didn't realize I was considered to be rich by using filtered water by some people from another site. :)

indianprincess said...

I watched the cupecake episode the other night and yes, Kate acted like a very big Bee with an itch. I think Kate sometimes gives herself more problems then actually fixing her problems. What was wrong with changes clothes? It would have been worth it to change them from church clothes into rag clothes then make a fuss all day long. Not one of her better days.

Guinevere said...

Between the filtered water complaints and the soup conspiracy theories, the lunacy level seems to have increased quite a bit.

Kidding aside, when the "j" word (jealousy) is brought up, this is the sort of thing we're talking about. I know some people who don't like J&K bristle at being accused of being jealous of them, and I understand that not all dislike of them is based on jealousy. But there is no reason for anyone to care if the Gosselins use a water filter. We don't even KNOW what their water tastes like. It may not be pure jealousy, but there's a strain of class insecurity running through such comments. The subtext is: "Kate thinks she's better than me. I just use plain old tap water but she needs filtered water. Because she think she's better than me. Who does she think she is?"

If anyone wants to offer an alternative reason why people would care about the water Kate uses, feel free.

Guinevere said...

indianprincess, I think Kate was in the worst mood I've seen her in in that episode. Just really not feeling it, at all. It makes it unpleasant to watch, even though there are some cute kid moments (that said, the wailing and gnashing of teeth in some corners of the internet about the cupcakes and who got their cupcakes after dinner and who didn't was way over the top).

Rufus said...

HA! You suckers and your water filter pitchers. I'm the real deal rich bitch snob. I use 5 gallon bottles of flouridated water. And damn straight I use them to make soup. Spaghetti and rice too. The horror!

indianprincess said...

Guin: When people were talking about this episode I didn't see it so I couldn't chime in with my opinion. Now I watched it yes, I thought Kate was over the top but who got what and why wasn't a big deal to me. We have the rule in our house and sure my daughter will kick and fuss but an hour later she totally forgot about not having desert. I don't think the children really cared the next day but in the blogworld it sounded like Kate and Jon did something so horrible to the boys. Just silly!

indianprincess said...

Rufus: I don't know what they would think in my house. I have a filtered water sprout attached to my ktchen sink(built in not a bought filter) with a instant hot water tap. It is a horror :)

Now I realized I'm so rich. I think I should use filtered water in my bath...lol How silly can some people go. They don't even make sense anymore.

nc resident said...

If anyone wants to offer an alternative reason why people would care about the water Kate uses, feel free.

Not an alternative reason but in agreement. We have city water, and so much chlorine my plumber said he noticed it while doing some repairs. It must build up in the pipes. Not to mention it has not met EPA standards 2 years running for trihalomethane content. And my wife buys bottled water to drink. So Kate is like a ton of other people on this, maybe her water tastes like shite and on this I give her a thumbs up.

nc resident said...

Afraid to announce I had a water softener in my other house.

SamanthaNC said...

Water filtering pitcher? Thats for peasants.(Nose in air here) We have a filter that attaches to the faucet itself. That's right- I'm fancy.

Betty said...

But there is no reason for anyone to care if the Gosselins use a water filter.

Breaking my quiet spell to say I'm totally baffled by why anyone would even notice or care about using filtered water for soup. Everyone in my family uses some form of water filter. Some are built-in and others aren't.

They aren't expensive and many people use them for health reasons or because they like the taste of the water better. Very strange.

Anya said...

indianprincess said..."I don't think the children really cared the next day but in the blogworld it sounded like Kate and Jon did something so horrible to the boys." Just silly!

Indianprincess, since you just saw the episode, you probably remember Jon confirmed just what you said - the boys forgot all about it.

Still months later, people talk about the boys not getting cupcakes as some sort of proof J&K lock the boys in the dungeon when the girls get continual lollypops and kisses. (Except, poor, sniff, Alexis, who is resigned to 2nd class status with the boys because of her "disturber" tendencies!)

indianprincess said...

Anya, Go Alexis for getting her own room. :) If that's considered abuse and neglect then I'm missing something... lol. To bad I didn't think of being a "disturber" as a kid so I could get my own room. Smart girl!

Kate is so funny "disturber". What a word!!!

Kikibee said...

Oh Anya and Samantha and all you snooty water filterers you are not in the same league as our Kate.
You had to PAY for your fancy filters didn't you? Kate never pays for anything doncha know, she just snaps her fingers and it appears. Why, who else could get a new stove the very next day after her old one broke?

I'd rather poke my eye out... said...

I agree w/ Guin about the jealousy thing. Other*blogs claim they are there for the children's rights, etc., however, it seems that more and more posts are very "nit-picky", i.e. water filter, new stove, etc. Who cares if Kate wants to use filtered water for soup- what does that add up to in the grand scheme of things?
Total change of subject, but I listened to a radio interview with Jon where he said the girls "googled" to see if Santa exists. I hope they monitor their internet use- have you seen the horrible things that are posted on Mady??

Saint said...

So the water filter thing is not a joke?

Brita should absolutely sponsor that TV show.

Leah said...

Obviously, Kate only filtered the water for Hannah's meaty soup. The rest of the hellions got toilet water broth.

I'm a long time lurker of this board, but have never posted before. I'm sure this has already been raised, but why in the world do "they" spend so much time and energy on a show they hate? There are hundreds of TV shows I find terrible, but I just don't watch them. If they're really worried about child abuse, maybe they should get off their computers and volunteer in their communities. Certainly there are kids worse off than the Gosselins.

I'd rather poke my eye out... said...

Leah- I agree with your comment on the Gosselin children. I'm not a huge fan of the show anymore- I find Kate to be a little too much to stomach. However, I do tune in every once in awhile and the kids appear to be happy & healthy. I think some people need to take all of their negative energy and put it into action if they feel so strongly about the welfare of the children.

lulubae said...

I'm late in the game in this (I was away!!!) but I too have a Brita filter container. In fact I have 2 and I use the water for cooking as well. Am I a snooty beyotch now? Go figure... Here I thought I was poor cause we can't afford the tap one or the big huge gallons. Silly me, lordy be!

Hope you all have a wonderful new year full of health, happiness and prosperity!

rain88 said...

I recently watched the repeat of the cupcake episode and wondered if they edited this episode for controversy.

At the dinner table they show Kate hovering over Hannah with a fork trying to get her to eat, then Mady takes over and you see her put the fork in Hannah’s mouth but she doesn’t actually take in any food. You also see the camera pan to Aaden and see him eating something at the dinner table. When you hear Aaden say “I don’t get my cupcake?” it looks like he had no idea that he wasn’t getting his cupcake until after it was determined that he hadn’t eaten enough dinner to receive one.

I have to wonder if they edited out Kate or Jon explaining to the kids before dinner that, even though it was their birthday, and even though Mady and Cara got to eat theirs before dinner, they still had to eat enough dinner before getting one. Maybe they also edited out Kate spoon feeding the boys so they had a chance to get a cupcake (and them refusing) or even Kate and Jon explaining how much dinner needed to be eaten to get a cupcake. We didn’t see any footage of the boys refusing to eat or playing around instead of eating. They may have also edited out showing Kate or Jon feeling bad that the boys were upset about their cupcakes because I sure felt bad for them. I do realize they won’t be scarred for life and it’s just a cupcake but it did seem unnecessarily cruel the way it was edited. If they had shown any of the above in the episode they would not have looked so mean. To me it wasn’t about the fact they didn’t get cupcakes, it was that J&K seemed so smug about the fact the boys didn’t get theirs.

nc resident said...

They may have also edited out showing Kate or Jon feeling bad that the boys were upset about their cupcakes because I sure felt bad for them.

Which again makes people wonder if this is reality or a heavily edited show depicted to cast negative light on J&K, usually Kate. Since this is their life, then again I have to ask, is Kate a total jerk, at times, or does the editing make her look that way. Neither is very flattering.

merryway said...

So of those that decorate for the holidays, is all your stuff down? I'm always the last in my group of friends and hopefully it will all go away this weekend. Last year, I had some unexpected surgery and everyone came and packed up for me. Not that I want to have surgery, but it was so nice not to have to do it last year.

lulubae said...

Here in PR the holidays are suuuper long. We celebrate up until about the 18th. I couldn't take it anymore and took my stuff down yesterday. But most people still have them up!

Quiltart said...

I had to snicker at the comments about the filtered water... What a ridiculous stretch that was! Filtered water is so exclusive that the residents of certain areas of Washington, DC are GIVEN the filters by the city! The infrastructure of some DC neighborhoods, including mine, is so outdated that are still lead pipes running our water. Brita DONATED pitchers and filters to DC residents a few years ago... I know because I have one in my fridge as I speak. (And you thought Watergate had only to do with Nixon!)

Nina Bell said...

Quiltart,

Did somebody already say this up thread, or do we know have Britagate!

Anya said...

merryway said...So of those that decorate for the holidays, is all your stuff down? I'm always the last in my group of friends and hopefully it will all go away this weekend.

Yeah, it's kind a process at Casa Anya. The tree always comes down on New Year's because it's a real tree and I get sick of pine needles everywhere. The rest of the stuff goes in dribs and drabs. The last to go are the outside lights because I love the way they brighten up dark winter evenings.

Good luck this weekend with your decoration packing! :-)

Anya said...

rain88 said...To me it wasn’t about the fact they didn’t get cupcakes, it was that J&K seemed so smug about the fact the boys didn’t get theirs.

I know a lot of people felt that way. It's interesting to hear this perspective from someone who isn't acting like it's the end of the world! Makes me more inclined to re-examine my own reaction. The editing did seem a little choppy to me too. It was really hard to tell who ate what. And since I don't buy into "the boys are treated as second class citizens" mentality, I have to assume J&K felt they had some basis for denying the cupcakes.


nc resident said..."Which again makes people wonder if this is reality or a heavily edited show depicted to cast negative light on J&K, usually Kate. Since this is their life, then again I have to ask, is Kate a total jerk, at times, or does the editing make her look that way. Neither is very flattering.

My personal opinion of whether the show is "reality" or a "heavily edited t.v. show" is the answer is somewhere in between. There are some very "real" moments that I don't think we see in other reality shows, but there is no doubt, the show is edited and it's edited to keep viewers hooked. Seems like they aren't doing a half bad job.

As to whether Kate is a "complete jerk" or is edited that way, I will agree in the cupcake episode she was a grouch for much of the episode. Although I will also note that even when she hugged one of her sons (I think Joel?) in the van after church, the haters had a field day saying Joel flinched from her.

I do not always agree that Kate behaves as badly as some others seem to think she does, but in this episode I agree her mood was unpleasant and she needs to own that. I would like to think she could look at it with open eyes and see that she sometimes makes things harder on herself and the entire family, than they need to be....

Heather said...

I definitely think that Kate is edited in a certain way - after all, don't we talk a lot more if she has a fit or yells at Jon?

I love the show Survivor and every season at least one person says they were edited in a way to make it seem like they were not. Crystal said it this season, and Jeff even asked Randy if he liked the way he was edited. I believe this is how all reality TV works.

Kate has even mentioned herself that if, over a period of days, she has two tiffs with Jon, those two things will be show in the 22 minute episode.

Quiltart said...

Nina Bell said... Quiltart,
Did somebody already say this up thread, or do we now have Britagate!


LOL, Nina! I must have missed that one... but I couldn't resist. It's a DC thing!

MrsRef said...

I personally find the Brita Water pitchers take too long to fill up. I would have a filter installed on my faucet instead. Instant gratification. On another note, Michael Landon aka Eugene (Oogie) Orwitz grew up in the town I live in. He went to the same high school as my kids (many years apart) I saw Taylor Swift in concert with Rascal Flatts this summer. She really is cute and seems very humble and aware that the "fans" contribute to her success.

MrsRef said...

Jon & Kate are listed as producers or something in the credits. Don't they have some say in what gets shown and what doesn't? I personally would not want to be shown in that light on a weekly basis. If I was arguing with my spouse, I would ask the cameras to leave, not film it and I would not agree to have it shown. They must have some say in what is shown. I wonder how awkward it is for the crew to witness these things. I find it embarassing to "act up" in front of people and I am embarassed when they do it in front of me. Just wondering...

Saint said...

We're having a late Christmas with half the family, so Christmas comes down on Sunday afternoon, one week past our normal time.

Last spring, TLC was advertising J&K with the phrase "Tender Loving Control freak" showing Kate. I think that what we see is really Kate over the course of several days, with heavy editing to make the show interesting. As others have said, controversy attracts viewers and Kate is edited to be the controversy.

I don't think that it still the same though. I think we see more "loving" Kate, more "proud mom" Kate this season, because Kate has a lot of fans that watch mostly for her. I like it this way better.

I also think that, now that I am used to Kate, I don't focus on what I don't like, and I see the nicer side of her more often now. In other words, I am perceiving it differently.

Theresa said...

Has anybody seen this article yet on Kate?

http://www.christianitytoday.com/tcw/2009/janfeb/1.22.html

And, from that article...this is why I admire Kate...

Sometimes I wonder why it doesn't bother me that the cameras capture everything we say and do.

Why doesn't it?

I think part of it is that I realize life is a struggle no matter how many kids you have. And that our responsibility is only to God and our family.

Guinevere said...

I know a lot of people felt that way. It's interesting to hear this perspective from someone who isn't acting like it's the end of the world! Makes me more inclined to re-examine my own reaction. The editing did seem a little choppy to me too. It was really hard to tell who ate what. And since I don't buy into "the boys are treated as second class citizens" mentality, I have to assume J&K felt they had some basis for denying the cupcakes.

Yeah, I always felt that "cupcakegate" was given waaayy too much attention because:

1) there was really no way to tell from the edited scenes who ate how much of their dinner, who was spoon fed and who was not (though it's unfortunate that perceived favorite Hannah was the one actually shown being fed) and what the kids were told about how much they'd have to eat in order to earn dessert (though it seems that there are established rules about that already in the Gosselin household).

2) Jon and Kate didn't appear smug to me, just nonchalant. Nonchalance, honestly, is to me the appropriate reaction towards a child being denied dessert because he didn't eat enough of his dinner. I just have never been able to get on board with the idea that it was a big deal at all.

At one point people were arguing that it was a big deal because it was their BIRTHDAY! (it wasn't) and these were BIRTHDAY CUPCAKES!, so exceptions to the rule should be made. I can see the latter point a bit. It's an example of where I see the show itself maybe being the issue. I think the whole outing was kind of for the show - not in a "staged" way, but just the way that certain outings do seemed to be planned with the show in mind.

Being denied dessert as part of a regular rule is one thing, but if this was a special outing for the purposes of the show, then I'm a little more sympathetic to claims that the rule could have been relaxed. It may well have been, on another day - I wonder if Kate's foul mood had anything to do with her refusing to bend?

Regardless, I don't see it as the big deal that some people did and do.

Anya said...

Theresa said...Has anybody seen this article yet on Kate?

Thanks so much for posting this. What a great interview. Kate was very open - perhaps more frank than I have seen her. I wonder if she felt more comfortable due to the fact that she was speaking to a Christian publication?

I also agree with you that one of the aspects of Kate that I do admire is her single-minded devotion to her family and the fact that she doesn't let outsiders and blogging busybodies goad her into somebody she is not or making decisions to please others.

Calling Jon "a follower." Hmm. Not sure what to think. It appears honest - not sure what Jon would say about that. I think she has a similarly clear-eyed view of herself, however. That's the first step to making constructive changes - recognition.

Guinevere said...

I think part of it is that I realize life is a struggle no matter how many kids you have. And that our responsibility is only to God and our family.

Interesting - good find, Theresa! I do admire Kate having perspective on the way she is seen by "outsiders". I think (just playing armchair psychologist here) that Kate is insecure in some ways (her unwillingness to admit she's wrong points to that, for me), but in other ways she has a confidence that I really admire.

I think that's what some women really hate about her - there are women out there who resent the idea of a woman who truly doesn't worry and obsess over what people think of her. (I'm not talking about everyone that dislikes Kate here; I realize people have legitimate issue with Kate's personality. But people - women - that just HATE her - I think it has a lot to do with their own insecurity and resentment about how Kate presents herself.)

FIONA said...

As I recall Kate did say they were going to decorate cupcakes for their birthday.

Yes, she was a grump, pain in the ass, killjoy at the bakery...and why in the world she didn't let them eat the cupcake there blows me away.

I agree the editing during dinner was weird, but relaxing her rules for this show would have been a good thing especially in light of her horrendous behavior at the bakery. I don't think she was friendly to the bakery ladies, she was in a bad mood-and sometimes you just have to lighten up and be nice!

nc resident said...

I don't think she was friendly to the bakery ladies, she was in a bad mood-and sometimes you just have to lighten up and be nice!
Fiona, Kate admits to having rule changes on special days. Christmas for example regarding what they eat. Why not allow them to eat a cupcake for their birthday? Why let some it eat and others not? Just like the play doh last episode and everything else in their lives. Kates has to control many times just for the sake of controlling.

Nina Bell said...

NC Resident

I agree, Kate is a control freak. No doubt about it. I have a sister and mother like that. Drives us nuts, but they are loved dearly by the whole family. They have many good qualities and sometimes the controlling part comes in handy during special events or family get togethers.

Kate appears to be changing to me. Or trying to. What do you think?

nc resident said...

Nina as vocal as I am about Kate I think she loves and is loved. I also agree to like Kate you have to get Kate. I do find it hard to believe that everyone here so readily identifies with heror has her personality. Families and sometimes friends tend to give us a pass on our shortcomings, and that's everyones saving grace at times. I think Kate is making changes slowly but as a male I find her attitude toward Jon at times unacceptable, that really hasn't changed. I firmly believe if Jon were this way to her most of the ladies here would be screaming "bloody murder." The fact she is making changes is good, but I seriously wonder with the PR firm on board and the attention this show receives; if it's done because she wants to, or she feels she has to. For the show to continue that is. The hitting has stopped and while I'm sure it was more play than anything it does not set a good example for some impressionable viewers.

Nina Bell said...

I do not identify with her or have her personality. Nor do my sister or mother. I just said that they are control freaks.

I find her attitude towards Jon unacceptable at times also. I find some of the things that Jon does unacceptable also.

I know if you came into my house there would be things that could be improved and also things that someone else might find unacceptable.

Our lives are a work in progress. We should not be judged strictly on our past. We should be allowed to change and improve for whatever reasons motivate us.

If Jon and Kate did not allow people to see true reactions between them, we truly would not have a reality show.

Theresa said...

Our lives are a work in progress. We should not be judged strictly on our past. We should be allowed to change and improve for whatever reasons motivate us.

Right on Nina Bell!!

Anya said...

nc resident said... Why not allow them to eat a cupcake for their birthday?

NC Resident, you know I couldn't let that one go by - it wasn't their actual birthday! :-)

Kates has to control many times just for the sake of controlling.

I mostly agree. In her defense, I think she has anxiety issues and controlling things helps her manage that. Not to say it isn't an area she should continue to work on.

Nina, I second Theresa's "right on."

Guinevere said...

I don't think she was friendly to the bakery ladies, she was in a bad mood-and sometimes you just have to lighten up and be nice!

Yeah, but a bad mood is a bad mood. Should you attempt not to inflict it on other people? Of course? Do most of us fail at that on occasion? I would think so.

What I'm trying to say is that I think we can agree that Kate should have shaken it off and been more pleasant that day. But she didn't, and I don't think that makes her unique.

Fiona, Kate admits to having rule changes on special days. Christmas for example regarding what they eat. Why not allow them to eat a cupcake for their birthday? Why let some it eat and others not? Just like the play doh last episode and everything else in their lives.

What was the deal with the playdoh last episode? I can't think of what Kate did wrong, but I could be forgetting something.

As for why let some eat and others not, it's because she didn't relax the rule. It's not like the rule was relaxed for some and not others; the kids who ate the required amount of dinner got their cupcake.

I've already said - under the circumstances I think she could have just as well relaxed the rule that night. But I don't see why anyone would consider it a big deal that she didn't. Maybe someone who thinks it was a big deal can explain it to me?

I do find it hard to believe that everyone here so readily identifies with heror has her personality.

I think I identify with parts of her - I am not a carbon copy of Kate, by a long shot. But I also think that some people like and defend Kate because they realize she's a human being and that she doesn't deserve to be called psychotic, a bitch (over and over), a monster, a terrible mother, a terrible person. She doesn't deserve to have people cackling over the thought of her dying, or of the thought of her being an old lady whose children and husband have abandoned her.

I don't think it's just identification that causes people to defend Kate; I think it's a sense that the way she is treated in some dark corners of the Gosselin blogosphere is vicious, unfair and disturbingly sexist.

I think Kate is making changes slowly but as a male I find her attitude toward Jon at times unacceptable, that really hasn't changed.

I don't think you have to be a male to have an issue with how Kate treats Jon at times. I have issues with the way they treat each other, but to use the word "unacceptable" - well, I don't have to accept it, do I? It has nothing to do with me. I can make judgments about it, call it unhealthy, etc. - but ultimately it's between them.

I firmly believe if Jon were this way to her most of the ladies here would be screaming "bloody murder."

If Jon were scary-controlling, maybe. I think I'd be uncomfortable with that. If Kate was as Jon is - laid back, not usually too bothered by the controlling behavior, sort of passive-aggressive - I don't think I'd view it that differently. When I think "controlling man" I tend to think "cowed woman", but I don't see Jon as at all cowed.

The fact she is making changes is good, but I seriously wonder with the PR firm on board and the attention this show receives; if it's done because she wants to, or she feels she has to. For the show to continue that is.

I don't think the ratings have gone anything but up. The complainers are vocal, but they are a vocal minority, and I've seen no evidence that anything they've said or done has come even remotely close to threatening the continuation of the show.

It's your right, of course, to make your own judgment about why Kate is making changes in her behavior, if you perceive that she's making changes. But it strikes me as unfair to say, "Kate needs to change her behavior" and then when you see changes to say, "Hmm, I don't think she deserves credit for them. It's just for the show."

SamanthaNC said...

I think I identify with parts of her - I am not a carbon copy of Kate, by a long shot. But I also think that some people like and defend Kate because they realize she's a human being and that she doesn't deserve to be called psychotic, a bitch (over and over), a monster, a terrible mother, a terrible person. She doesn't deserve to have people cackling over the thought of her dying, or of the thought of her being an old lady whose children and husband have abandoned her.

I don't think it's just identification that causes people to defend Kate; I think it's a sense that the way she is treated in some dark corners of the Gosselin blogosphere is vicious, unfair and disturbingly sexist.


YES YES YES. Thats exactly it, you took the words right out of my mouth. The hatred towards this owman is RIDICULOUS. I would love to be a fly on the wall in the homes of the people who so viciously attack her- wonder what we would see? Probably a million personality flaws and issues worth criticizing. I defend her bc she is picked apart in a petty, petty way.

MoreCowbell said...

Late to the party, but here's my comments.

I am such a peasant. I buy water. In bottles. And we RECYCLE them. Does that make me a prole? I can't believe they were bitching about the Gosselins using filtered water? SERIOUSLY? The nits they're picking are getting harder and harder to see.

Regarding Barbara Walters' comments on Dick Clark. I agree with her that it was hard to see/hear him on NYE. I felt so badly for him (but kudos that he still did it, knowing that he isn't quite the same as he was before the stroke, and that people would comment). However, I can't believe she brought it up on The View as part of the discussion. Oh, so tacky. Then again, The View hasn't exactly thrilled me the past couple of years, anyway. Either we have Elisabeth's shrill posturing on the Right, or Joy's bitter whining from the Left. I'm a moderate, and they both make me furious.

Confession time. Is there something you watch that you're thoroughly embarrassed about? A guilty pleasure? In the world of reality TV, for me, those shows are on VH-1. I just watched something called "Tool Academy" and laughed my ass off at its spectacularly trashy train wreckedness. (NEW WORD!) And the fact that it came on right after "Rock of Love Bus" (or, as I call it, "Skank of Love")? Even more trashtastic. Although, this third installment in Bret Michael's quest to find his "one true love" amongst strippers, porn stars and silicone, is actually more shocking than the other two. I knew my viewing habits had hit a new low during last week's premier. I don't even want to tell you how one of these ho-bags served up a shot. It was disgusting. So disgusting that an aged rocker with a bad wig and bandanna, who's still living in the 80's, eliminated her because it was even too sick for even him to contemplate.

Remember when VH-1 was about music? Remember when they showed "Behind the Music" every week? What ever happened to that? I miss that. Now it's just freak show after freak show. I could use a good "Behind the Music" marathon to bleach my brain after two hours of Bret Michael's search for love and Tool Academy.

Saint said...

I blocked VH-1 about three years ago, so I haven't been tempted by the shows you mention MCB. But I do feel guilty watching American Idol all the way from the beginning of the competition, when it's more about weirdos than talent of any kind. I just can't look away and I love the judges comments and expressions.

I shouldn't. I know. But I do.

SamanthaNC said...

Confessions of a former teen idol- I love it!

marci said...

MCB,

I'm with you on the Rock of Love disaster...what will forever be known as the grossest body shot EVER!

Lizabeth said...

McB and Marci, the worst part of that is that Gia was not at all ashamed of her behavior!! Personally I like Beverly (and her man shoes) and Kelsey, the Utah girl.

I watched The Bachelor again last night as well as that new show True Beauty (which was HILARIOUS-- contestants think the goal is to find the most beautiful person, but they are actually eliminated based on inner beauty :)!). Can't beat the trashy reality tv!

marci said...

Liz,

It boggles the mind...what men has this woman been with that would consider THAT a turn on??

The look on Bret's face...priceless.

SamanthaNC said...

Now Im curious about this body shot lol

Nina Bell said...

Here is another article about the Gosselins - http://www.uticaod.com/news/x743979564/Star-of-TV-s-Jon-and-Kate-pays-visit-to-Mohawk-Valley

Nina Bell said...

Samantha

I love your avatar!

SamanthaNC said...

Thanks Nina!!!

marci said...

Sam,

Trust me, it's gross.

Tyra said...

Quote:
I do find it hard to believe that everyone here so readily identifies with heror has her personality. Families and sometimes friends tend to give us a pass on our shortcomings, and that's everyones saving grace at times.

That would be making some big assumptions about posters' motives. Why do I have to identify with Kate? I never see myself as identifying with Kate, except as a fellow flawed human being. I don't think of myself as defending her choices, either: that's her job. I often feel compelled to stay in the JK+8 discussion because I've read so many opinions about Kate that are based on anti-logic: every violation of sound reasoning I can think of is used to build the internet case against Kate Gosselin, and all of it used to feed hatred, and then to paste a 'Child Advocacy' placard over the top of it. Totally offensive to me. To let the aggregate of all of that stand as the 'common wisdom' makes me cringe for the human race.

(None of this refers to the logic-wielding posters here, btw, in case that needs to be said.)

Anya said...

Tyra said...I often feel compelled to stay in the JK+8 discussion because I've read so many opinions about Kate that are based on anti-logic: every violation of sound reasoning I can think of is used to build the internet case against Kate Gosselin, and all of it used to feed hatred, and then to paste a 'Child Advocacy' placard over the top of it. Totally offensive to me.

These comments echo my own feelings and pretty much sum up why I feel as strongly as I do about the injustice heaped on Kate. Hint: it's NOT about admiring her every trait and wishing we were BFF's!

I would love to have a whole thread devoted to picking out the most common fallacies used every single day by the most militant Kate haters. Anyone want to pull out their old college debating textbook? :-)

Theresa said...

Totally agree with you Anya!!...These comments echo my own feelings and pretty much sum up why I feel as strongly as I do about the injustice heaped on Kate. Hint: it's NOT about admiring her every trait and wishing we were BFF's!

Ditto. There's an insurmountable amount of unfounded accustations, bitter lies, and such towards one woman. I find it pathetic that people do that and search for and stretch what they see on an edited show and call it truth.

Guinevere said...

Hint: it's NOT about admiring her every trait and wishing we were BFF's!

Yeah, occasionally the accusation comes up that "we" defend her hoping that she'll notice and appreciate us. Which is just so clueless, and I'm not sure that even the accusers believe such an absurd accusation. I'm not starstruck by Kate, I don't want her to like me or expect her to be particularly aware of this or any other blog. That's not what it's about at all.

Anya said...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/18/books/bestseller/besthardnonfiction.html?_r=1

Sadly, it appears the post-it campaign may not have been the rousing success some were hoping it would be -- "Multiple Blessings" is number 4 on the NYT best seller list after 11 weeks on the list.

Not too shabby.

SamanthaNC said...

You mean the post its didnt work? I'm just shocked. Wow, you would think they were removable or something, and I just cant beleieve that they didnt get to ALL the books. . . .

Tyra said...

I would love to have a whole thread devoted to picking out the most common fallacies used every single day by the most militant Kate haters. Anyone want to pull out their old college debating textbook? :-)

Sounds like fun!

There's an insurmountable amount of unfounded accustations, bitter lies, and such towards one woman.

Fascinating to me. Why is KG such a lightning rod? Is it just the equation mom + Christian + money + female who doesn't have the requisite 'ideal' female characteristics?

Anya said...

"Fascinating to me. Why is KG such a lightning rod? Is it just the equation mom + Christian + money + female who doesn't have the requisite 'ideal' female characteristics?"

I think you hit on 4 of the main points. I also think the fact that she went from a pretty, but kind of ordinary looking SAHM to a knockout with a great bod ruffles the feathers of some who may not be in the same league, if I may be so blunt?

I emailed Nina Bell and we are going to see about possibly doing a feature in the future on the fallacies issue.

nc resident said...

There's an insurmountable amount of unfounded accustations, bitter lies, and such towards one woman.

There seems to be alot of truth out their as well.

Tyra said...

I emailed Nina Bell and we are going to see about possibly doing a feature in the future on the fallacies issue.

Cool.

There seems to be alot of truth out their as well.

nc resident, how can the truth be separated out from the mound of crap that surrounds it, and grows daily? The latest topic 'elsewhere' is that 'Oh, Kate couldn't possibly be a PCOS sufferer because she's not obese, oily-skinned and bearded.' I'm thinking that if all of the opinions and speculation and viewer baggage were swept into the garbage can, all that would be left is, yes, a law that would protect children who take part in reality tv series would be a good idea. Not just for the Gosselins, for anybody. What else needs to come out of it? Except maybe a self-awareness pill to help tv viewers who think that examining Kate's face for evidence of excess facial hair (or lack of) is a significant contribution to the cause of child advocacy.

nc resident said...

also think the fact that she went from a pretty, but kind of ordinary looking SAHM to a knockout with a great bod ruffles the feathers of some who may not be in the same league, if I may be so blunt?

Goes to show ya what some free platic surgery and a little lipo will do for ya. Are you suggesting having a hot bod is a new Christian lady trend? hehe

Anya said...

nc resident said...Goes to show ya what some free platic surgery and a little lipo will do for ya. Are you suggesting having a hot bod is a new Christian lady trend? hehe

Could be! I think having a hot bod is a trend a lot of us - Christians and non Christians alike - wouldn't mind following. I wish I had Kate's bod!

I don't negate that plastic surgery put her back on even ground (maybe even put her ahead of the game), but she has maintained a very nice figure now for a few years after the surgery. Good for her. From what I have seen, she is pretty conscientious about practicing good eating habits and perhaps she is making time for excercise.

Saint said...

There seems to be alot of truth out their as well.

I don't know about that. I guess I went from believing what I read to being veeeeerrrrry skeptical about what I read in 4 and a half months.

I know they have 8 kids.

I want documentation for everything else. Lol!