Wednesday, May 27, 2009

Kate Gosselin's Brother Next in Line to Sell Out?

The news is coming fast and furious. So far, we only have one source for this accusation. We will see who else might pick it up.

Click here to read this story from E Online.

179 comments:

Anya said...

It's been bumped to the second story in case anyone is wondering why we are posting a story about Chris Brown. (Actually, I think he did come up earlier today in another context).

By the way, to save you all the trouble, I visited Julie's blog a few minutes ago and she has not yet addressed this story.

Jen said...

What is the source for this post?

Fanny said...

So Kevin and Jodi are caught in the sh~tstorm too, huh? Serves them right.

Anya said...

Jen, E! News. Ok Magazine has picked up the story too, but they are crediting E!

Kuromi said...

Jen, click on the title of this blog post. The story is on E! Online. I'm guessing E! "learned" about Kevin shopping his story because he probably approached E with the offer.

And yeah, Chris Brown: Now THAT's an example of domestic abuse. Not "love taps."

Trish said...

I think what Jodi and Kevin have already done is disgusting. But I will reserve judgement on this one till we know if this is true or not. This is likely gossip just like all the other crap about J&K.
As this evolves, it will be interesting to see if any other family members weigh in.

If it turns out to be true, well it would speak volumes.

One a side note...the other site has set up an official address to send letters to Jodi and Kevin. Whether Jodi and Kevin really are child advocates or not, their association with that site is beyond disturbing. That they would throw themselves in with such a hate filled nasty vile set of people...well you can see where I am going with this.

MarieSea said...

Let's see ... this whole thing started because Jodi felt it was okay to be paid to be an aunt. So how shocking is it that her husband wants to be paid to be a jerk?

Saint said...

Try this link for E!Online. Try this link for OK!

Saint said...

I hope Julie denies this story. I don't know these media outlets. I hope this is a case of them (the media) jumping on the Gosselin bandwagon and that this story isn't true.

Nancy said...

Nothing surprises me these days. I didn't post on the CBS thread, but I would have much preferred that interview airing versus the radar online one. I think CBS lends itself some credibility.

The fact that Jodi and Kevin can receive letters through a site with a history of on-again-off again-child advocacy and hate boggles my mind.

MoreCowbell said...

Posters wondered in the other thread whether Hannah's lack of face time during the birthday show was due to her acute shyness. I actually think that Kate may have made a conscious decision to not have Hannah front and center because of the hateful things said about the child by the "advocates," simply because she was considered the "favorite."

Bravo Kevin. How proud you must be to align yourself with losers like that. Do you agree with them? Do you like the names they call your sister and your niece? What a loser.

Speaking of cashing in, do you think TLC is suffering right now? Oh, hell no. They're eating up the controversy with a spoon. J&K's ratings have never been higher. I just read this in an article about TV ratings.

"Was it my imagination, or did TLC run that show [Jon and Kate Plus 8] a million times over the weekend? It was not your imagination, but for the record, the cable network merely aired the series 97 times last week. All the broadcasts were reruns; all were about building momentum for Monday's mega-watched premiere."

Lots of people cashing in, it seems. And the more the advocates push, the more the ratings go up and the more TLC shows them. Bravo! Seems that your "advocacy" has backfired a bit, hasn't it?

Anya said...

Thanks, Saint for the links.

In case it wasn't already apparent, I do not typically put up posts. Nina Bell wasn't available so I winged it! :-)


Trish said...Whether Jodi and Kevin really are child advocates or not, their association with that site is beyond disturbing.

I totally agree. I have to wonder has Kevin ever read there? Despite their current estrangement, wouldn't it make him sick to his stomach to read what is written about his sister? I really don't get it.

ORCALOVER said...

I have been reading your blog for such a long time and have never posted, and something tells me I should not right now!

This situation sickens me! So many have said the same things I am feeling but what Kevin and Jodi are doing feels so wrong to me, yet what they are saying I believe. Someone has to step up for these little kids. Everyone else is making money on them, why not Kevin and Jodi? I know it is all wrong. But if it gets the attention of the *right* people, GREAT!

I hope the kids survive this.

And I think Jon and Kate should be locked up for what they have done to the kids.

AAP said...

I realize that Gosselin gossip is going to dominate for a while (I'm certainly not immuned to do it), but I wanted to share this video a came across - if you watch it all the way through, there is actually a cute story that goes along with it. I thought we could all use a happy father/daughter story right about now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v3d6SFcDys&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ekwernerdesign%2Ecom%2Fblog%2F&feature=player_embedded

Feel free to move it to another open topic thread if you want.

Mary twin Mom said...

Charming. When I watched the CBS interview I thought they had very strange expressions on their faces. As if Jodi didn't have financial issues with Jon and Kate. PFFFFTTT. What a surprise. Kevin is garbage. As far as I'm concerned these two are exploiting these kids more than anyone else at this point. Sickening.

A Mom-ynous said...

I have to say--if they are hoping for reconcilation...

A paid for $30,000 dish interview ain't the way to go about it.

A Mom-ynous said...

The fact that Jodi and Kevin can receive letters through a site with a history of on-again-off again-child advocacy and hate boggles my mind



*******************

Call me crazy...

But if folks are genuinely concerned about the kids...

That an address to CPS in Pennsylvanai or an address to TLC or Figure 8 to send protest letters would be much more appropriate.


And on another note--it seems the "haters" will only get more agressive on a situation that they can do nothing about.

The only thing that will come of any advocacy is that the children get a "schedule" much like actors. Advocating will just ensure that children CAN be filmed in this manner. It won't stop it.

Baby Mama said...

I said this on my blog but it bears repeating. Don't you think its odd that right when Jodi & Kevin spoke up and Julie started writing on that blog again, that she all the sudden has an e-mail address on there? I feel it was so that those that were interested in contacting her sister can do it though her.

Media outlets are now sending us the stories to our e-mail addresses, they are doing it over on the hate sites too. I think she put an e-mail address out there to help her sister field out offers by not having to look even worse by going directly to the media. JMO

Jenn said...

Welcome to the media world, Jodi and Kevin. You got yourself into this mess. Good luck. I doubt this will end well for either family.

A Mom-ynous said...

"Everyone else is making money on them, why not Kevin and Jodi? I know it is all wrong. But if it gets the attention of the *right* people, GREAT!"

One should not require a paycheck to do what is morally right.

If I want to feed the hungry, I shouldn't command a $30,000 interviw to tell folks that it is a shame that kids go hungry, we can't let this happen.

No--the morally correct thing to do, would be to get off my fat lazy bottom and really do something about it.

Kevin and Jodi stayed rather silent for quite a long time but suddenly are speaking up?

Something is fishy about that.

Linda said...

Orcalover -

Here is my thing. I started watching J&K about a year or so ago. I'm a twin and I come from a family of 8 so I've got a lot of personal interest in their story.

I remember googling the title of their show and I came across GWOP website. Initially, I was agreement with some of their premises . . .

*that the potential for exploitation existed
*that there weren't sufficient protections in place
legally for children who were in reality shows

But the more I read the blog, the more absolutely disgusted I felt with the comments that they were posting.

Absolute utter filth about the children that they were supposedly trying so hard to protect . . . (yeah right! )

I wrote to them a few times about how posting those filthy comments about the kids were diluting the credibility of their position.

They could care less.

Then came the PennMommy fiasco and good old Julie was asked straight up . . .

"do you feel at all uncomfortable with the insulting demeaning derogatory things that are said about these kids?"

To which dear sweet Julie respond "It was for the sake of humor and only offensive if taken out of context." (paraphrasing a little here.)

What the hell?

I used to think that she didn't know much about the content of that blog and Jodi also didn't because if they did they'd object because REMEMBER this was all for the children (insert swan song!)

But I'm more convinced then ever that what motivates these people is their own brand of jealousy and greed under some inauthentic, fake version of advocacy.

This isn't to suggest that there aren't concerns about J&K. I've got some. But I don't think that a genuine child advocate would exchange information for money or call the kids that they are advocating for names.

I'd love to know what actual legislative efforts J&K have done or have they just funneled info to Julie, GWOP, Star, etc.

Denise said...

I would rather Kevin get paid to tell the truth than watch Kate get paid to lie.

ORCALOVER said...

Linda,

Great points! I get it, I do. Just hoping something good comes out of all of this, ya know?

Guinevere said...

I would rather Kevin get paid to tell the truth than watch Kate get paid to lie.Well, I don't see it as an either/or. Mostly what he's told so far is gossip that may or may not be true.

Besides, most of the "child advocates" claim that they are concerned with the children (when they aren't concerned with Kate's hair, butt or the way she pronounces the word "our"). Since Kevin getting paid to write a book, whether it contains truth, lies or some mixture of the two, won't do diddly squat for the Gosselin children and may actually hurt them, I'm not sure why anyone would support it. Though my suspicion is that they will support ANYTHING that they think might hurt Kate.

Kuromi said...

Though I personally thought that E!'s source (OK is merely reporting what E! said) is itself--Kevin probably pitched the $30,000 deal idea to them--I agree that we don't really know the source of this allegation. So I'll side with the posters who urge that we withhold judgement until a reputable source is attributed. Actually, most of us probably are on that side...

SamanthaNC said...

I would rather Kevin get paid to tell the truth than watch Kate get paid to lie.If you're getting paid to tell the truth you lose credibility- it becomes a case of is this really the full truth or a way to make $$$?

Mom said...

Linda -

Great summary - ITA.

Danielle said...

I think ALL the Kreiders are garbage.

Mom to 2 said...

I'm going to say this as a social worker, not just a mom. If all these people (family, friends, non-J&K fans) want to help these kids, stay away from the media. Organize campaigns towards getting corporate sponsorship removed from the show. Work towards legislation in PA that will impact kids working on reality shows. Those things will have an actual impact, not airing "dirty laundry" in the press. All that they are doing now is increasing interest. I would love to see Jon and Kate step back and get rid of the cameras, focus on their relationship. Unfortunately, TLC (with the huge ratings) will not let go of them at this point. I have decided that I can't watch anymore. I just hope that Jon and Kate can find some resolution.

Stop this train wreck now said...

When Jon made that comment early in the season opener about "If I paid you $20,000 to say something, who knows what you would say" at first I assumed it was the alledged girlfriend's dirtbag brother, but then wondered it it was the Krieders. This is making me think it's the Krieder's.

It's been said time and again already, but any respect or sincerity these people had with respect to the kids was leaking the infidelities and the post-nup. Finding out your parents have cheated on each other is devastating, and it's even more horrendous to have that news break from people who "supposedly" care about you.

Vile. This is beyond rephrensible and that anyone could condone this with fantasy thoughts that Saint Jodi and Kevin will take the money and put it in trust for their neices and nephews must be drinking out of the same bottle that Jon is.

I have been trying for three days to e-mail TLC asking to put an end to this and my computer keeps crashing on the contact us page. I wonder if high traffic is the problem. The gosselin six website is down due to exceeding bandwith, more hits than ever after monday and this cbs nonsense, I guess.

They are making me feel sorry for Kate who is not normally a sympathetic person.

Theresa said...

OpenID MarieSea said...

Let's see ... this whole thing started because Jodi felt it was okay to be paid to be an aunt. So how shocking is it that her husband wants to be paid to be a jerk?


I read in one of the mags that Jodi & Kevin were paid $3,300 per episode they appeared in, and that Kate & Jon were fine with that. They were not fine with having them as contracted personalities on the show. So if I understood it right, everyone is bashing Kate for not wanting them to cash in, but in reality it was that she didn't want anyone but her own family having a contract. Hmm....maybe now we know why she didn't want them or anyone else to have a contract.

Theresa said...

One more thing comes to mind...If you truly cared about those kids, would you go on tv and tell everyone that the only reason their parents EVER had a b'day party or vacation with them was for ratings? Way to build up those kids self esteem...bravo...maybe they should be nominated for best Aunt and Uncle of the year....losers...Just my opinion.

A Mom-ynous said...

"Denise said...
I would rather Kevin get paid to tell the truth than watch Kate get paid to lie.

May 27, 2009 9:38 PM"

Paid or not--I would rather him spoke up a year ago or not speak at all.

They are complicit in the exploitation as far as I am concerned.

Fanny said...

I read in one of the mags that Jodi & Kevin were paid $3,300 per episode they appeared in, and that Kate & Jon were fine with that.

Theresa, do you remember where you saw that?

Quiltart said...

Fanny said...
I read in one of the mags that Jodi & Kevin were paid $3,300 per episode they appeared in, and that Kate & Jon were fine with that.

Theresa, do you remember where you saw that?
Kevin said this in one of the radaronline.com interviews last week.

Mommy in Nh said...

I don't know how to provide a link but there's a video on fox news talking about jon wanting out of the contract and discussion on how he might be able to do it.

Fanny said...

Thanks Quiltart. I watched the videos but some where a little wonky on my computer so I must have missed that. It's interesting.

Mom said...

The fox news video is very interesting. The "source" is a close friend of Jon's who says he wants out of his contract. Almost everyone agrees it will be extremely difficult to get out and that most judges in a family court scenario would want no part of it because BOTH parents made the decision to sign the contract and do the show.

It doesn't seem like anyone knows when the contract is up. Jon isn't garnering alot of sympathy from this legal analyst and defense attorney.

I wonder who the "source" is. Although I wish it were not true, my gut is telling me that J&K+8 isn't going away anytime soon.

Anya said...

http://www.tmz.com/2009/05/28/jon-and-kate-plus-a-lot-of-space/

Latest from TMZ. Doesn't look like Jon is really interested in changing his ways...


I haven't seen the Fox report yet, but knowing Jon, I would be surprised if he takes the steps necessary to get out of the contract. More likely, he will just work things so that *he* doesn't have to be on the show as much. I am not sensing that he has suddenly had an epiphany and believes the show is harmful to his children. Rather, almost all his public statements have been addressing the effect the show has had on *him*. It's clear he is going through a "Me Phase."

I have said it before, I feel for Jon. I do. I just don't have a lot of respect for him.

Anya said...

AAP said...
I realize that Gosselin gossip is going to dominate for a while (I'm certainly not immuned to do it), but I wanted to share this video a came across - if you watch it all the way through, there is actually a cute story that goes along with it. I thought we could all use a happy father/daughter story right about now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v3d6SFcDys&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ekwernerdesign%2Ecom%2Fblog%2F&feature=player_embedded

Feel free to move it to another open topic thread if you want.


Thanks, AAP. I watched it last night. Really beautiful and soothing and a very nice message at the end. I recommend it to everyone.

We are going to try and post it separately in the next day or so. I tried last night and ran into some technical problems.

Saint said...

Fox News Channel video link

Laura said...

Like I've said before, people will do anything for a buck.

Guinevere said...

The fox news video is very interesting. The "source" is a close friend of Jon's who says he wants out of his contract. Almost everyone agrees it will be extremely difficult to get out and that most judges in a family court scenario would want no part of it because BOTH parents made the decision to sign the contract and do the show. When we were first discussing ending the show if Jon wanted to (after the season ender a couple of months ago), I took into consideration the suggestions that it wouldn't be that easy for the Gosselins to get out of their contract.

On reflection, though, if Jon played this right, I don't see how TLC could refuse without looking *really* bad. I mean, if Jon said, I don't want to do the show, and I don't want my kids to do the show, what is TLC going to do? Force the point? When plenty of people already believe that they are exploiting the Gosselin children?

Of course, Kate is a factor, and my sense with her is that she wants to do things on her terms. (I see that as more the issue rather than greed or anything like that - that Kate will not let other people dictate to her how she lives her life.) But she's going to end up looking pretty bad as well, again if Jon handles this in the *right* way, which so far no one involved has really done.

GFan said...

Did you all realize Kate was releasing a 3rd book this fall? I didn't, but here's a link:
http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/05/74690/

SarahW said...

A lot will depend on what Jon contracted to do. If I were a parent I would have insisted on unilateral power to withdraw myself or any or all of my children from filming in my home or elsewhere under certain conditions. If I were TLC I would do my best to have a contract that protected me from unliateral action of a balking parent.

He has apparently agreed to appear for money. The obvious minimum he would suffer breaking his contract is he would not get the money. But he likely can't pull the plug on the entire venture himself, barring some extraordinary circumstance.

Mom said...

Guin -

With all the rumors and speculation running around, I'd much rather see Jon SAY he wants "out" instead of a "source" which I am so sick of.

I think everyone involved with this family - J&K, TLC, Kevin & Jodi, tabloids, paparazzi, etc. all look bad.

I'm glad thus far Beth, Carla and some other "friends" (past and present) have remained silent.

All in all, I hope Jon & Kate can put their marriage and family first and make some good sound decisions together. I don't wish divorce on anyone.

Linda said...

I saw the pics on TMZ in which he is drinking with a few female friends.

My gut tells me that eventually it is going to be revealed that J has some serious personal problems individually.

=============

The news clips from Fox News acknowledges that absent of evidenced abuse and neglect, the courts have no standing in this case.

"Parents make poor decisions every day. That doesn't mean the kids are being abused."

Heck, they even referenced the Jackson Family and said, that it might not be in Tito's best interest to be raised in front of the cameras but we can't take him away from his parents.

Theresa said...

Linda said...

Then came the PennMommy fiasco and good old Julie was asked straight up . . .

"do you feel at all uncomfortable with the insulting demeaning derogatory things that are said about these kids?"

To which dear sweet Julie respond "It was for the sake of humor and only offensive if taken out of context." (paraphrasing a little here.)

What the hell?

I used to think that she didn't know much about the content of that blog and Jodi also didn't because if they did they'd object because REMEMBER this was all for the children (insert swan song!)

But I'm more convinced then ever that what motivates these people is their own brand of jealousy and greed under some inauthentic, fake version of advocacy.
I came aboard the Gosselin blogosphere pretty much after the Pennmommy thing. I can' believe Julie. I thought her and Jodie were lowlifes then, but now even more so. Wow.

And, to the other Theresa who wrote...
Theresa said...
One more thing comes to mind...If you truly cared about those kids, would you go on tv and tell everyone that the only reason their parents EVER had a b'day party or vacation with them was for ratings? Way to build up those kids self esteem...bravo...maybe they should be nominated for best Aunt and Uncle of the year....losers...Just my opinion.

May 28, 2009 9:24 AM
Your opinion is shared by me, too. When I saw that Early Show interview I wanted to slap Jodi. That was so damaging for the kids. The fond memories of stuff and when they hear her say that, then they're going to feel extremely lost.

Then, when they showed the clip about them being on the show, they showed Jodi and her older daughter. Why didn't they show the one where she was all deliriously happy because they were going to see Oprah? She came across as a loontune then and now is just a plain evil person.

The fake concern of them both is pathetic. If I were Harry Smith I would've been a bit harder on them and asked them why their radaronline interviews didn't compute with the timeline, etc.

Jodi and Kevin are pathetic losers. A real letdown to the kids they supposedly want to protect. Shopping around their "story" is the ultimate low.

Baby Mama, I believe you're right about the sudden availability of an email address. It's to field offers and have people contact them.

Theresa said...

I'm glad thus far Beth, Carla and some other "friends" (past and present) have remained silent.

All in all, I hope Jon & Kate can put their marriage and family first and make some good sound decisions together. I don't wish divorce on anyone.

May 28, 2009 1:22 PM
I think so, too Mom. And, it just goes to show the people who are coming out with "stories" about the Gosselins, are those that don't have any interest in the kids or Jon and Kate. They're just out to make a buck.

The true family and friends are doing just what they should. Loving and supporting that family.

I saw a repeat of Rachael Ray yesterday and she had Robin McGraw on. Robin talked about for how a year the tabloids were saying she and Dr. Phil were divorcing. Rachael said they said the same about her and her husband John. Both wome said how ridiculous the rumors are, but they are very hurtful because people see them on the front page and it's just enticement to buy their rag mag. Rachael also said that Oprah had called her at the time of the tabloid fiasco and said to let it fall off your back because that's the story of the week and all of them pick up the nonsense and run with it. Eventually it dies down as people realize how stupid the stories are. I wish this wasn't a repeat show and that Rachael could tell that to Kate now. Sorry for the ramble, but I just found it interesting how people get caught up in the rags.

marchmama45 said...

Go Jodi and Kevin! Thank you for telling your story. Hopefully the show will be taken off and the kids will be rescued. Why shouldn't Jodi and Kevin be paid? If they have valid information and the facts to prove it -- and not just gossip. Do we really want to spend more years being lied to by the likes of J&K and TLC? Jodi and Kevin spent a great deal of time caring for J&K's kids, allowed their home to be used for filming, and helping J&K with whatever they could in the early years. Divorcing or losing the show is totally J&K's fault because of their immature and selfish behavior. They got caught in their lies and cheating. No doubt Jodi and Kevin waited until they felt that the relationship with J&K was gone and nobody was going to help their kids. I don't think they would jeopardize their family ties unless they felt totally helpless. Let them be paid and let the media verify their story. Jon and Kate wouldn't do either one.

A Mom-ynous said...

Why shouldn't Jodi and Kevin be paid? If they have valid information and the facts to prove it -- and not just gossip.

****************

Say you witness a heinous crime. The victim is in a coma and you are the only witness to place the accused at the crime scene with a perfect description of the invdividual.

Should you be paid in order to testify?

If anyone harbours information that is vital in "saving" someone from being a victim or at the very least getting the victimization to stop, then to "sell" this information is almost as bad as the victimization.

To rationalize that it is okay to be paid is poor judgement.

Kevin and Jodi wish to advocate for the kids and just b/c they may be telling the truth in what they are dishing and are getting paid for it, does not make them any better than the parents and qualifies them as victimizing the children.

That is not exactly the type of morality and advocacy that I would expect for someone who was truly trying to "help" the children.

I'm trying to think of the term for it--blackmail comes to mind, but that isn't correct. CAn't think of the word, but in any case--it is pretty crappy to help with your public testimony when you received a check.

That's $5000 per sextuplet.

If it were me, I'd probably be getting an attorney and paying if necessary to help the kids. Not demanding money to share juicy details.

Jordyn said...

I'm trying to think of the term for it--blackmail comes to mind, but that isn't correct. CAn't think of the word, but in any case--it is pretty crappy to help with your public testimony when you received a check.
****************

Hyprocrites, theives, child exploiters are all good words to describe it.

Theresa said...

Laura said...
Like I've said before, people will do anything for a buck.

May 28, 2009 12:27 PM
And, the tabloids and news-tabloid shows just keep the story alive because their producers and editors are too lazy to get a real story. Move on from the Gosselins. Really, there is nothing there. When I saw the Fox News thing on them. Please, enough. There are real court cases out there, problems in our world, and everyone wants to focus on the absurdity of this media circus.

I saw ET tonight and they showed Jon and Kate in the new episode and wouldn't you know it, they are happier. Good. hope marriage counseling is working out. Or maybe just a lot of exaggerating has been going on the last few weeks? :)

Also on ET, there's a new reality show with sextuplets on the WE channel. Will they (the mom) get as much scrutiny and hate as Kate? Will there be hate blogs dedicated to that "shrew of a mother" for exploiting her kids? Will they be wrongfully accused of abuse (which I think is just downright uncalled for, extremely hurtful and legally bounding for the Gosselins if they want to do something about those vicious attacks). As we've said before, the show would've been taken off a long time ago.

As for the pic of Jon with a brew talking to two women, for all we know Kate could've been standing off to the side. I don't blame him for being mad about innocent pictures of their life being taken out context.

The whole media frenzy is becoming extremely unreal. Please editors and producers, find a real story.

Momof2 said...

Gosh...there's so many conflicting stories they make my head spin!

themrs said...

Say you witness a heinous crime. The victim is in a coma and you are the only witness to place the accused at the crime scene with a perfect description of the invdividual.

Should you be paid in order to testify?
if said person was paid, does that mean definitively that what they say is not true?

can anyone show me proof that they have been paid or is this all speculation?

Mom to 2 said...

http://eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2009/05/good-old-aunt-jodi.html
Thought people might find this interesting.

erin said...

Just as an aside, people are paid to testify but the amount is not so great. The usual reason for a witness to lie on the stand is for some kind of self-serving reason--jealousy, plea deal, etc. Not that this happens all the time. But, if we are going to compare the situations, certainly if you were getting paid an exorbitant sum to lie on the stand, wouldn't you be tempted? Similarly if you had a self-serving reason (fame, revenge) the temptation to lie is certainly there.

I watched the latest (I think?) Radar video with Kevin and Jodi and horror of horrors: Kate used to ask for help with her chores! My own brothers used to have me set the table for them every single time they were asked to do so. To this day my youngest brother has no idea where to put a fork (although I usually have suggestions).

SarahW said...

Themrs, payment for testimony is generally considered unethical, except in the case of expert testimony, where the professional is paid to report results of professional evaluation of evidence or circumstances. Even then the amount of payment and who paid it is a relevant question the opposition may ask, and the compensation must be fully disclosed. The amount of payment or fact of it can be used to help the jury give appropriate weight to the possibility the witness is fudging for secondary gain.

Secondary gain can induce persons to shade, bend or alter a story. Here's a case where I think would be clear cut shenanigans. http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=75516

It does diminish the credibility of Kreider and his wife. It makes their motives questionable, and the light they cast on certain facts qestionable (are they sensationalizing or puffing to generate interest).

In their case it also causes their credibility to drop because a chief criticism of theirs was "exploitation" of and harm to the children. Here they are quite willing to make a buck off of the "family business".

jace said...

http://eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2009/05/good-old-aunt-jodi.html
Thought people might find this interesting.


----------

Interesting and spot on, in my opinion.

Trish said...

"http://eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2009/05/good-old-aunt-jodi.html
Thought people might find this interesting."
-----------------------------------

Awesome site!! Thanks for finding it! I think I will frequent this site just because. I LOVE the show Lie to Me.

Declasse said...

Trish, Jace, Mom to 2:
What exactly does this mean? Why is this interesting. Who or what is this person? Ok, Jodi is jealous. Interesting she did not choose to mention what part Kevin played. I guess she just focused on the woman because she doesn't like women. Especially if they look fat and have frizzy hair. Yeah, let's get Jodi, then we'll get Julie, then Deanna Hummell until we get them all, except Kate because she is skinny and does not have frizzy hair.

Jennifer said...

Forgive me if this has already been brought up but I thought I would add something in.

Everyone is debating if Kevin and Jodi should have come forward. One HUGE part of their information is based on a conversation that Jon had with them in private. I just cant imagine taking a conversation that was clearly intended to be confidential and selling the story to the news media. If that doenst scream low life then I dont know what does. They say they want to help advocate for the children but I cant figure out how going to tabloid magazines (Star) and selling their story is doing anything good. If anything, it adds fuel to the fire. Their acitions just do not line up with what they are claiming their goal to be.

ORCALOVER said...

I think the more attention this gets, Kate will dig her heals in more. Kate cares about herself. She is the priority in this mess.
Something tragic is going to happen to to either Jon or Kate before this is all over, or worse to one of the children.

Everyday I log on and there is something else.

Why don't they just take a break for heaven's sake and work out their divorce.

steffi said...

I've been reading for awhile and I'm curious as to how a blog that is anti-Jodi and tears her down (something that is pointed out repeatedly here as a bad thing when it is done to Kate) is somehow accetable? Is it only okay if Kate isn't the target or is it really okay when women tear down other women? Because not everyone agrees with Jodi's view and what she is saying, is it okay to treat her the way everyone complains about Kate being treated?

I smell a serious double standard here and I'm curious if someone could clarify why ripping Jodi a new one is okay, while isn't not okay when someone in the blog world does it to Kate.

AAP said...

Thanks Anya - i thought it was a nice break from the Gosselin madness too.

4the8 said...

Jennifer commented

"One HUGE part of their information is based on a conversation that Jon had with them in private"

Just a thought here.

Kate has a giant PR machine behind her (witness the TLC "blog", the book tour for a book that bears BOTH Jon and Kate's name), the People mag article with Kate's pic on front and interviewing only her and on it goes.

I believe Jon is still friends with his bro-in-law and sis and likely begged them to please say something.
I think Kevin and Jodi have had enough of Jon and Kate playing against one another to the detriment of the children.

This couple DID come forward many years ago, but few people listened.
This could have been nipped in the bud long, long ago.

I know people don't like they went to Radar, BUT, if they hadn't, then the Washington Post, one of the leading and well-established news journals of our time (think Watergate) and winner of countless Pulitzer prizes and just about every journalism award there is, would not have taken notice and starting writing about it, too.

I've been reading up on a lot of this, and actually, Kevin and Jodi really tried to get people to notice what was happening with the children ages ago.
Now you have the Post, all the major networks, the LA Times, all sorts of powerful publications FINALLY paying attention.
Even Barbara Walters talked about it today and she said she spoke with child experts and even those who were exploited on tv and the ALL said the same thing.
What I think is obvious to all, the children are being exploited.

The fact remains.
The health and welfare of 8 little children is at stake.

So, regardless of what people think or feel about Kate, Jon, Jodi, Kevin and the rest of the cast of characters really doesn't matter.
People should really stop fighting about the adults and pay attention to the children!

What good does it do to analyze who said what and when and why.
It doesn't.

I agree with all those trying get folks to focus where it really matters at this point, the children.

And thank goodness they are.
This isn't going away.
The Post, CNN and the rest will not let it - Thank Goodness!!

Jordyn said...

ORCALOVER said...
I think the more attention this gets, Kate will dig her heals in more. Kate cares about herself. She is the priority in this mess.
Something tragic is going to happen to to either Jon or Kate before this is all over, or worse to one of the children.

Everyday I log on and there is something else.

Why don't they just take a break for heaven's sake and work out their divorce.

********************
Orcalover,your post would be most credible if you didn't slide your dig in on Kate. Did you have to do that? It just shows how a good post went bad because of immaturity. It also shows how this media frenzy is split on so many levels.

You have the level of people who don't care. You have the level of people who only slam Kate (think gwop)every chance they get. they bombard all comment sections of articles, you have the level of people who are fed up with watching every move Jon and Kate make because some goofball sells them out (ultimately hurting the kids). And, this last level certainly adds to the problem of something tragic happening.

God forbid something tragic happens.

Saint said...

can anyone show me proof that they have been paid or is this all speculation? ...I have no proof, just as I can't prove Jon cheated from the suggestive car photos. Instead, I am applying your "appearance of evil" theory to Jodi and Kevin.

1. They spoke to tabloids first.

2. Tabloids pay for gossip.

3. Their original stories to the tabloids were gossip and complaints about Kate's mothering image. They did not advocate for the kids.

4. Julie defends Jodi.

5. Julie has not denied the allegations that they got paid.

6. E!Online reported that Kevin was shopping around a tell-all.

7. Everything they know now they knew 6 months ago when this story was not so lucrative. All of what they know about the kids, they knew 12 months ago, and they did NOT speak up, even though Julie had a blog and Jodi clearly knew about it. In fact, Julie wrote that Jodi asked her to remove her stories so she can "move on." What changed? Only that the story can make the Kreiders money now.

Don't you agree that all this combined gives the "appearance" that they are gossiping for money, and not motivated by their conviction alone?

Saint said...

I guess she just focused on the woman because she doesn't like women. Especially if they look fat and have frizzy hair......Declasse, She didn't mentioned that anyone looked fat or has frizzy hair. She also didn't address Julie. I agree with her assessment of how Jodi came across in the videos and the potential effect it will have on the Gosselin children. I don't know who she is, either, but I don't think it's fair for you to assign to her opinions she hasn't expressed.

Saint said...

I believe Jon is still friends with his bro-in-law and sis and likely begged them to please say something.
I think Kevin and Jodi have had enough of Jon and Kate playing against one another to the detriment of the children.

This couple DID come forward many years ago, but few people listened.
.....
This couple did NOT come forward a few months ago. Where has Kevin ever said anything before? Jodi herself barely said anything at all. She did not speak about the Gosselins directly. She referred to Julie's blog. Then she supposedly asked Julie to remove the video and stories about her. "Everything my sister says is true." THAT"S coming forward? What did Julie say? That Jodi didn't get the contract that TLC wanted to offer her because of Kate. That Kate has an organic chef and they are building a home with room for the production crew in NC. That PennMommy was a real Gosselin volunteer treated cruelly by Kate. It MATTERS that Julie got those stories wrong and that Kevin said NOTHING at all.

As for Jon begging them to come forward...why wouldn't they say that? Probably because it's not true, that's why. It would really help their credibility if they denied allegations of taking payment for gossip and if they said they are acting at the behest of Jon. As it stands now, their credibility is shot.

They are hypocrites.

A Mom-ynous said...

Mom to 2 said...
http://eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2009/05/good-old-aunt-jodi.html
Thought people might find this interesting.

May 28, 2009 7:44 PM

***************

THANK YOU for posting this!

I had submitted some videos to her and am grateful that she actually published an article.

Eyes for Lies is phenomenal in her abilities and if she smells bs--likely it is accurate.

While folks think Jodi is quite brave, the fact that EFL--who is a RECOGNIZED human lie detector is not seeing bravery speaks volumes.

A Mom-ynous said...

Declasse said...
Trish, Jace, Mom to 2:
What exactly does this mean? Why is this interesting. Who or what is this person? Ok, Jodi is jealous. Interesting she did not choose to mention what part Kevin played. I guess she just focused on the woman because she doesn't like women. Especially if they look fat and have frizzy hair. Yeah, let's get Jodi, then we'll get Julie, then Deanna Hummell until we get them all, except Kate because she is skinny and does not have frizzy hair.

******

IF you are referring to Eyes for Lies, that individual could care less what Jodi or Kevin look like. She looks at body language and a million other things and she does this naturally.

You can read all over her website information on this phenomenan as Eyes for Lies has that as well as credible links posted to her skills.

She typically deals with crime cases and in the 4 or so years of doing her blogs has not had an instance yet were she was wrong, but countless moments where she was proven correct.

There are even cases she disagreed with including the man who recently got released from death row.

She doesn't tell you if someone is right or wrong as she is not psychic, but the human mannerisms that occur when one is being dishonest do not ever lie.

All she is telling is is that Jodi's actions are highly questionable and polar to her stated intent.

Given EFL's track record, that is good enough for me.

And the more Jodi and Kevin appear in interviews, the more EFL's can review it and draw the same conclusion over time.

A Mom-ynous said...

I've been reading up on a lot of this, and actually, Kevin and Jodi really tried to get people to notice what was happening with the children ages ago.


***************************

Hold on a cotton picking minute!

They most certainly didn't do ANYTHING ages ago other than get upset when they were disinvited from the family's life.

Even Julie--didn't try to do anything except say--yep it's true, they did this to my sister--they are horrible and then she provided her evidence for it.

WHERE are the calls to the police, child protective services, attorneys?

Let us not speculate they have done this if we do not have proof.

All they did ages ago was feed gossip to Jodi's sister and that accomplishes nothing for the welfare of the children.

Trying to get people to notice--please!

When you witness a crime, you call the authorities. You don't ask your sister to start a blog.

Jordyn said...

When you witness a crime, you call the authorities. You don't ask your sister to start a blog.
********************

Great point. And, let's be accurate...no "crime" wss committed. But, I do understand how you meant this AMom-ynous. Point on.

A Mom-ynous said...

http://eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2009/05/look-at-jon-and-kate-plus-8.html

Here is another article she wrote on the show.

While it may not sit well with some. This matches Eyes' writing style if you look on the right side of her webpage at various crime cases she has commented on.

I've been following her website for over a year. The stuff she writes is fascinating. It is not filled with the emotion we would see on blogs or discussion boards where folks are on fire for one side or the other.

It is a critical, scientific observation that is just so cool to read.

I'd put more credence into what she says than other professionals who would require actual time with the family to produce a coherent opinion based on fact.

Eyes' just needs good solid video where the person is speaking and has something on the line.

I.e. if someone were lying about their favorite color--it would be difficult to spot dishonesty b/c there is no risk to lying about the color. Same is true for lie detector machines and why they are not always effective in all cases and why they are inadmissable in court. I messed up that explanation, but she has it somewhere on her site. Before folks condemn her as some random individual who does not know what she is talking about and is just taking sides, I would encourage you to take the time to peruse her site and read her articles.

God's honest truth--if she validated that Jodi and Kevin had very HONEST mannerisms and her opinon was that they were genuinely concerned, I would have certainly accepted her assessment. So please don't speculate that I accept her observations b/c they fit with my opinion.

I have submitted other crime cases I was curious about and as much as it pissed me off that she doesn't see what I see, I accept what she says.

So before you invalidate her assessment--actually read her website.

A Mom-ynous said...

Here is another article on Eyes for Lies including links to validate her credibility. Pretty cool stuff (the skill, not the topic!):

http://www.celebitchy.com/52758/exclusive_truth_expert_analyzes_jon_and_kate_gosselin/

SallyS. said...

I'm not proud about it but I watched ET last night and of course they had a J&K story on. They showed I think Leah having a tantrum, Kate opening a b-day card from Aiden stating how beautiful his Mommy is, and Mady sitting between Jon and Kate on the interview couch. ET's statement was having Mady sit between her estranged parents is child exploitation and should PA child services be called? TLC's public relations campaign for this show is just beginning to backfire. The media is now wondering why the cookbook is being released with all that is going on with the media and why both Kate and Jon are still steamrolling along. Now with mainstream media coming into the debate regarding the Gosselin children's 40 hours filming for both Season 4 and 5 and then some, IMO there is going to be a backlash that will reach the authorities in Pennsylvania. Legislature just may force Jon and Kate, TLC, PR, to cease filming. There is a firestorm burning and the winds are still blowing the fire with no end in sight. Eventually my hope is that all reality t.v. families will have regulated filming hours as child actors do. With 40 hours of camera time the Gosselin children are actors, and now that they are older have lines to say ie Mady staged between her parents. How sad.

Theresa said...

Having watched almost every episode, I can honestly say that while I think Kate can be snappish & overbearing, Jon is no picnic either. Jon is very passive aggressive w/ Kate & has been since the beginning. He also has a temper, did we forget the trip to the zoo or the "pull the stick out" episode just to name 2. Yes, Kate does nag Jon, but why should she have to ask him to step up & help her. God love him, Jon's a man & as any wife will tell you, men do NOT see what needs to be done, it is not in their line of vision, but if you ask them to do it most will. Also keep in mind; they have 8 kids, that alone can be stressful without cameras. For the 1st 3 years, Kate was home taking care of the kids while Jon went out to work 5-6 days a week. I am aware they had/have helpers, but still you're home listening to 8 screaming kids all day. They are just kids, they are going to fight, cry, whine, laugh, play, jump & run around like wild animals. Of course by the time Jon got home at night, Kate or anyone else for that matter would be at her breaking point & in desperate need of a break.

In the beginning, the couple/family went on speaking engagements. It was not until after the tups turned 3 that Jon decided he didn't want to do the engagements anymore. It seemed that they decided as a couple that Kate would do the engagements & book tour to keep the family income growing. After 3 years of being a stay at home Mom, she decides to pursue a career that allows her to be home most of the time, (book tour will not last forever). I've seen posts on various sites blasting her for having 30 engagements in a year. Let's say for arguments sake each engagement requires 2 days travel there & back & speaking day. That's 90 days away from her kids in a year. I'm not sure about the rest of you working Mom's but I'd love to only work 3-4 months & spend the rest of the year home with my child. Jon said he quit his job to be home with the kids & so that Kate could do her book tour & engagements. They just swapped positions. Why is she being thrown under the bus for working? I don't recall ANYONE bashing Jon for going to work everyday & leaving Kate home to tend to all of the kids.

Theresa said...

It seems that now after being a stay at home Dad for 2 years Jon is just lost. A lot of stay at home parents go through an identity crisis. Surely I must be more than just Mom/Dad? After a while your world revolves around your kids & spouse. How many among us can say we NEVER let a bad day with the kids affect how we treat our spouse when they get home? In Kate's People interview she said that Jon hasn't been happy for 6 months, longer is she's honest. Jon wanted to go back to work or school, she supported his decision but didn't want to give up her new career either. Why should either of them have to give up a dream when they can now afford help? So what if Jon went back to work/school & the kids were left with a nanny on the days Kate is on tour? Normal everyday people send their kids to daycare while they work, I fail to see the issue here. Why the outrage/anger aimed at Jon & Kate if neither parent is home during the day? Would the kids not benefit more from 2 parents that are both happy in their career as well as their home life? Perhaps if Jon had gone back to work/school, he wouldn't have built up so much resentment towards Kate for continuing to fulfill her career goals. How can you be happy as a couple when the individuals are not happy with themselves? Kate has found something that fulfills her career dreams & makes her happy. Jon now says this life was chosen for him. Did he not choose to sign the contract with TLC. What's stopping him from pursuing his own career goals, he worked before while filming the show.

I think they do love each other, but have lost sight of what matters most. It will take them time to heal the hurt between them, but I believe it is totally possible to put this family back together again.

Theresa said...

Fanny said...
I read in one of the mags that Jodi & Kevin were paid $3,300 per episode they appeared in, and that Kate & Jon were fine with that.

Theresa, do you remember where you saw that?

Sorry it took me so long to reply Fanny, I don't remember which mag, however I do remember Dirtbag also mentioned it in their radaronline interview as well.

I

AAP said...

Theresa -

Why should either of them have to give up a dream when they can now afford help?

IMHO, I think J&K feel that wouldn't make the family as "TV worthy" as it would if 1 parent was staying home.

jan said...

I smell a serious double standard here and I'm curious if someone could clarify why ripping Jodi a new one is okay, while isn't not okay when someone in the blog world does it to Kate.#1 - Jodi claims to be concerned for the welfare of the children yet tears their parents apart for them to see later.

#2 - Jodi didn't speak up about her "concerns" for the children until she was denied a contract with TLC by Kate.

#3 - Jodi does nothing to stop her sister from association with a hate site that spews venum at the Gosselins, including the children, especially Hannah. These children will see this someday.

#4 - Jodi repeated gossip about Kate under the guise (of someone who really doesn't want to say it but has to for the children) timidly whispering the word "cheated". Nice going Jodi, the children will really love the fact that you shared this with the world.

#5 - Jodi and Kevin pretty much destroyed any chance for a reconciliation between Jon and Kate by spilling the information publicly. This will not help the children who need both parents.

#6 - Jodi and Kevin are trying to and probably will succeed in taking away this form of financial support the Gosselins are doing to support their large family now and in the future.

#7 - Jodi and Kevin are feeding the media firestorm that encourages the pack of rats that follow these people and there children on everyday errands, and put the children in danger.

#8 - The fact that they are trying to sell their story to the tabloids ruins their credibility when they say they are trying to help the children.

As for Kate, the problems she is having are contained between her and Jon. She is not out to destroy people like the Kreiders.

SarahW said...

Mady's on the couch because she's there to talk about her special trip with her Mom. Cheez louise.

SarahW said...

I'm a little uncomfortable with the spammy pushing of another website. JMO.

jace said...

Well said, aMomynous and jan. Kevin and Jodi have made a difficult situation much worse for no good reason except their own gain imo. Shame on them.

The Eye for Lies is very interesting stuff. I'll have to check out more.

Theresa said...

Jan, Amen! Amen! Amen!

Although, I believe #5 is giving Jodie and Kevin a bit more power (I don't know if that's the word I wanted to use) than is true. I don't think they destroyed any chance of a reconciliation of Jon & Kate. I think they destroyed any relationship with them (Kevin & Jodi)(as a couple) with Jon & Kate.

If Jon and Kate both wanted to work on their marriage, block out all that has come between them and get to the core of why they every got together, they're solid union will be built back and they can heal.

And in #6 - Jodi and Kevin are trying to and probably will succeed in taking away this form of financial support the Gosselins are doing to support their large family now and in the future.I don't think Jodi and Kevin will succeed at all. Their credibility has been shot by so many inconsistencies and the fact that they've lowered themselves in shopping for a book deal. At this point, they're like two annoying knats.

Kate is driven to make sure her family is provided for, her career has branched out in a few different directions that Jodi & Kevin could never touch. Even the tv show. The contract with TLC is with the Gosselins and their lawyers.

I really like your last paragraph. Very true! As for Kate, the problems she is having are contained between her and Jon. She is not out to destroy people like the Kreiders.

A Mom-ynous said...

"With 40 hours of camera time the Gosselin children are actors"

**************************

Actually they are not actors.

They are living their lives. We can call them ducks or trucks or apples but that does not make them such.

Mark my words, when they do finally place protections in place for the reality genre, they will be far different from that of actors who undergo a far more time consuming process to produce the final result.

A camera filming them on their playset outside--is not equivilant to a child standing on an X and saying lines.

They are "steamrolling" as you put it, b/c there is no legislation that prevents them from having their lives documented.

In the end, I think the world will be shocked when Jon and Kate will legally be permitted to continue their show in similar capacity as they do now.

The only difference will be that perhaps less filming time will be had for the children and they will get a guaranteed cut in trust for their participation (of which we have NO PROOF that the parents do not already do this voluntarily).

But the show will not end when magical legislation will be created. And that is why the hostility won't end.

Folks want the children protected and they think that means no going on the air at all.

They are surely mistaken in what can legally take place.

Jordyn said...

I'm starting to get confused and I ask this only because I dont' want others to be either. Please do not take offense.

My question: I noticed we have 2 Theresa's now. The one with the troll avatar has been posting for quite a while, the other I noticed just started posting a few days ago. Can the second Theresa please use an initial with her name as to differentiate each of them?

LuLu said...

Sally S.,
now that they are older have lines to say ie Mady staged between her parents.Can you give some examples of the older kids saying lines? I haven't noticed this myself. Thanks.

merryway said...

ET's statement was having Mady sit between her estranged parents is child exploitation and should PA child services be called? Did they really say that?

The next show was filmed several weeks before Jon was shown to us leaving a single lady's house in the early morn. Iirc, it was 8-9 weeks previous.

I have seen several media clips where they use the word "exploit" and yet, it's obvious, they haven't watched the show. Even in some cases saying, “I haven't watched the show”. When the media starts mentioning the other reality shows instead of just using another celeb problematic marriage for ratings and $s, maybe I'll start listening to what they have to say. As far as I'm concerned, they're doing the same thing as TLC.


Congrats to GDNNOP on the mention in the NY Times. What a nice change. I have been disgusted when GWOP has been cited, since there's no mention of the theory of Kate's “do it at home” plan of HOMs, the horrible things they have said about the kids, as well other things I already discussed in previous threads.

I guess there's an endless supply of Jodi & Kevin clips. I had a different opinion of Jodi before this. I thought she was a pushover. But, she is enjoying this and imo, has been eagerly awaiting the day to dish and get even. If she is concerned for the kids, which I sincerely hope she is, it's lost in her cattiness. The big question today was on the G's church attendance.

Jennifer said...

4the8 said...
Jennifer commented

"One HUGE part of their information is based on a conversation that Jon had with them in private"

Just a thought here.

Kate has a giant PR machine behind her (witness the TLC "blog", the book tour for a book that bears BOTH Jon and Kate's name), the People mag article with Kate's pic on front and interviewing only her and on it goes.

I believe Jon is still friends with his bro-in-law and sis and likely begged them to please say something.
I think Kevin and Jodi have had enough of Jon and Kate playing against one another to the detriment of the children.

---------------------------

While I think you bring up a goo point, I find it REALLY hard to believe that someone who is in clearly so much turmoil and stress over the media would just add fuel to the fire by telling his brother in law to spread rumors. On top of that, I really believe Jon loves those kids and has an understanding that they will "google him some day". So I cant imagine that he would feel the need to have his conversation spread over the internet and magazines. Some of the things Kevin and Jodi are saying (contract to cheat, etc...), are doing NOTHING to protect those kids. Of course, some things they are saying are bringing light to the topic too. If Jodi was so concerned about those kids she would only be telling stories that directly relate to the welfare of the children (stories about the kids not wanting to be filmed, long hours, etc) and would keep all of her other information out of it. Her actions and stories just dont line up with what she says she is trying to accomplish. And, she even had the video of her removed from her sisters blog. If she really wanted to get the word out there, dont you think she would have kept it up?? I just see way too many fishy things going on with them.

Oh, and one other thing. Why in the name of all that is good did they choose to give an exclusive interview to Star magazine, a well known tabloid. Hmmmm, interesting.

Mom2Maddie said...

Jordyn said...

I'm starting to get confused and I ask this only because I dont' want others to be either. Please do not take offense.

My question: I noticed we have 2 Theresa's now. The one with the troll avatar has been posting for quite a while, the other I noticed just started posting a few days ago. Can the second Theresa please use an initial with her name as to differentiate each of them?

I just noticed the 2 Theresa's myself and was in the process of changing my blogger name as you posted this...lol...great minds think alike ;0)

Officially the new Theresa will now be known as Mom2Maddie. I am new to posting in the blogging world, I read a lot but don't usually post...however all of the negative posts on various sites compelled me to post.

SallyS. said...

Yes, ET said that but they also showed other clips of the upcoming show, tantrums, Aiden not responding to Kate's question. Even so, that it was to talk about Mady having special time with Kate in California and Jon home with the rest of the kids it was for an episode of the show. Kate had special time with Mady in California for filming purposes. TLC could have interviewed Mady separately or with just her and Kate and did not have to put her between her estranged parents. Jon wasn't even there so why was he sitting on the couch. But I heard that some clips on ET/Insider that showed discourse weren't shown on the debut episode hmmmm.. selective editing? After last night's ET I wonder if TLC will do more selective editing. Since I have banned TLC from my viewing I only have media and blogs to confirm what is shown. But it is still a firestorm when the mainstream media has a story about them every day. Even the ladies on The View are making their "views" be known and I think Barbara said the word "exploitation". As I have commented before I think all the adults in these children's lives are making horrible choices and in the long run the children will be affected. I came from a verbal abuse situation in my home w/physical thrown in w/my Mom and sister and I can tell you it affects you way into your adult life. It took me until I was in my 40's to tell someone I came from an abusive background. Words hurt.

Jordyn said...

Thanks Mom2Maddie and welcome!

Tyra said...

Jennifer, you make so many good points. It doesn't make a difference to me whether Jodi and Kevin were paid by the gossip media: in either case, I would still question their actions and their motivation. Look at the genesis of Julie's blog: she started out with a Facebook(?) fan page for 'Aunt Jodi'. How the hell does a fan page reflect 'serious concern' that filming the kids' private moments is objectionable? Then, when Julie started her 'Truth' blog, it first concentrated on Kate preventing Jodi and Kevin from being paid for being on the show. That was her biggest beef. WTH!?! Where do the children fit into that equation?

The transformation of JJ&K into 'advocates' for the children remind me of the TWoP denizens at the defunct JK+8 board, who weren't content to state their opinion that Kate was the biggest bitch they'd ever met and then have people ::gasp:: disagree with them instead of genuflecting to their 'superior' judgment. So, they started throwing around the word abuse, and claiming that their position as a CASA, or the best mommy in the world, or the daughter of a malignant narcissist, meant that they could scream 'abuse', and we should all just nod in agreement and shut up.

Theresa said...

Mom2Maddie-Welcome!

It's funny, because I read your posts and they could've came straight out of my mouth. Kinda spooked me too. :)

I too didn't start posting until I got fed up with seeing all the senseless negativity and negative people that can harm the Gosselin children.

Once again, welcome!

Mom2Maddie said...

Jordyn said...

Thanks Mom2Maddie and welcome!

Theresa said...

Mom2Maddie-Welcome!

It's funny, because I read your posts and they could've came straight out of my mouth. Kinda spooked me too. :)

I too didn't start posting until I got fed up with seeing all the senseless negativity and negative people that can harm the Gosselin children.

Once again, welcome!

Thank you both, I do feel very welcome here unlike other sites, although everyone may not agree with my opinion, no one has crucified me yet for having them...lol.

Tyra said...

SallyS., I submitted my last post before I saw yours. I was not addressing you when I spoke about posters using their own experiences to give themselves the sheen of authority when talking about Kate and Jon. I just wanted you to know that I don't mean to diminish your own personal experience.

I think the conversation about personal experiences is beneficial in the right context. With all of the attention focused on the Gosselin kids, doesn't it just add more energy to the media flurry around them? And, call me a cynic, but I don't buy for a second that RADAROnline or the STAR will give a crap about child advocacy once the next celebrity arrest or divorce pops up.

LakeRat said...

tsk tsk...Jodi and Kevin are really sinking as low as they can go. How sad for those children... :(

ORCALOVER said...

Jordan,
My observstion, my opinion, my thoughts about this mess, is yea, Kate is digging in her heals and she is number one.

Yea, I could have left that out, or I could have left out the fact that I THINK something tragic will happen in this family. But it was my post and it was what I felt like saying.

Sorry if you didn't like it. I don't like any of it either.

Fanny said...

I'm so completely grossed out by Jodi and Kevin right now, not to mention Julie and her "save the children" act. She has yet to deny the accusations that Kevin is shopping a story for 30k and instead has posted an email from Paul Peterson after asking him to get involved. I would think he of all people would have enough sense to tell her that she and her family aren't helping. I'm also a little disturbed by the fact that he used that email to solicit donations and then mostly go on to talk about himself. Other than the link to the post he made on his site a long time ago about J&K, this email seemed pretty generic.

Charlie said...

The new Radar On Line bits are ridiculous. They are trying to make something sinister out of a child trying to get a sibling to do her chores (been there, done that) or not going to Church every week (been there, done that).

The more I see of Jodi, the less I like her. And Kevin seems to be every bit the submissive to a dominant wife that Jon was.

mom2hap said...

are you guys telling me that jons mom is bad too, she is speaking to star just like them

Fanny said...

Some interesting quotes from Julie(in some of the parts she removed from her blog, they can be found in google cache):



"15 mins of fame"--if that were the case, don't you think I would have gone out and tried to sell my story? I put information on a blog."


So should we now assume that Kevin and Jodi are seeking their "15 minutes"?





"The show meant NOTHING to Jodi and Kevin. They were doing what they had always done--taking care of the children. Jodi knew that she had to be seen as "useful" to Kate to be able to have a relationship with the kids. So she allowed the cameras in her home and she watched the kids on a regular basis, and it wasn't just for filming. She never expected to be paid and would never have even taken money if it had been offered by Kate. They are family and that's what you do for family (or should do)."




But wait, didn't Kevin say they were paid to appear on the show? Was saying specifically that Jodi wouldn't have taken it if it were offered by KATE her way of twisting the truth a little because it was TLC that paid her? Hmmmm.

Tyra said...

The only thing I would find more repellant than the gossip media interviews Jodi and Kevin have been doing would be Julie announcing that the fees paid to Jodi and Kevin for their gossip will be used to create an organization to help advance the cause to protect reality show kids.

Really, Julie's silence on the issue of whether Jodi and Kevin were paid is a bit deafening.

Fanny said...

mom2hap said...
"are you guys telling me that jons mom is bad too, she is speaking to star just like them"


His mom only said that she didn't think he was being fairly portrayed in the media, and I'd say she's probably right. The difference though, between her and Jodi/Kevin is that she isn't spewing specific family details. She's his mother. It's only natural that she would try to defend him. I think there is a BIG difference in defending your family and selling them out to the highest bidder.

Mom2Maddie said...

Boy....Greedy & Dipstick are really scrapping the bottom of the barrel to extend their 15 minutes of fame. Breaking news...this just in....Kate pawned some of her chores off onto her brother when they were kids...

ARE U KIDDING ME...that's the best U can do. Newsflash, I have 2 sisters, we always pawned chores off on each other growing up.

And guess what else...sometimes Jon & Kate don't make it to church....that's the last straw....let the stoning begin... Jon & Kate missed church this week.

Guess the price for the tell all just dropped to 25K since they've just revealed 2 more "secrets."

Really, these 2 need to get a life of their own and stop bottom feeding off Jon & Kate.

Oh...and one more thing I've noticed... UMMMMM must run in their family, none of them can get through an entire sentence without ummm.

SallyS. said...

Since all this fiasco broke loose, I had never heard of Radar Online, Just jared, TMZ, etc. I was aware of all the magazines but have never bought one of them. The only magazines I ever subscribed to were Good Housekeeping and Oprah and those subcriptions ran out a long time ago. I am guilty of partcipating in this media firestorm and am trying to break free, but I must admit having watched this family from the beginning and seeing how they are now I am flabbergasted and my curiosity still gets the better of me. So now Jon's mother is commenting... when will this ever end? I am also sorry for bringing my personal life into the blog, I was just commenting how verbal abuse can be harmful and J&K are both guilty of it.

momma2happas said...

none the less, she is talking to a "trashy tabloid" couldn't she have gone to a more reputable magazine or newspaper?..

mamma2happa said...

and remember the mom sounds like she is defending jon not kate.

Fanny said...

"none the less, she is talking to a "trashy tabloid" couldn't she have gone to a more reputable magazine or newspaper?.."



Well, I guess she could have, but my guess is that Star contacted her. Anyway, I'm not sure that anyone else would have been interested in Jon's mom saying what little she said. Maybe there is more to the interview, and maybe she doesn't have anything great to say about her daughter in law, but WHAT she says and the WAY she says it does matter. You can defend one without slamming the other.

I personally don't think any of them should be talking to the media at all, but I think a mom wanting to defend her son is natural. Kevin and Jodi aren't really defending anyone. They are going to every media outlet that will listen to discuss the marital woes of another couple. I don't believe they did any of this with good intentions. The motive seems to be to smear the parents and use the kids to keep from looking like a couple of gossip queens(seems to be a trend). Much like a certain blog that claims to be concerned for the kids, the concern often comes as an after thought to a post ranting and raving about Kate's personal shortcomings.


I'm sure I know where you're going with this, "it's okay for his mom because she defends him, but not okay for jodi and kevin", which is exactly right. When you go to the media and tell them anything about a person that you know they don't want anyone to know, you're selling dirt and families shouldn't do that to eachother, regardless of the truth.

Bottom line.

Mom said...

Fanny - great finds! Google cache - you gotta love it!

Tyra - OMG, I about choked when I read your post. Too funny and TOO close to something that could really happen. :-)

A Mom-ynous said...

She could have, but perhaps they called her and she simply answered a question.

Tabloid or not, they are the media and they have ways and means to get to sources just like any other media.

This isn't to defend them as the epitome of credible journalism.

I haven't read the blip from Jon's mom. But if she isn't in the home or was present on Jon's "date"--then there isn't much she can add to the situation than that of motherly love.

Not everyone in the news, seeks out the news.



Regarding Kate--I think people are throwing her under the bus big time.

I am in a present family situation and I cannot tell you how very simple things I do or don't do get blown way out of proportion and made into something they are not.

It is likely if one day I became famous and also spoke of my Christian faith and how I love everyone--that certain family members would point to past incidents to say "nope--she's lying...she did XYZ".

This is what--toxic family members do.

I have no doubt that Kate had similar traits when she was younger. I also have no doubt that her pregnancies caused her traits to "explode" and become exaggerated as she carried them through.

Example--I've always been quick to temper. I became quicker to temper with each pregnancy. I have since sought counseling for said temper and have made much headway. However it will never change the past and my birth family will never "get it" nor will they accept the cause of it. I had a sibling pass on to another what I had confided and that other sibling who had a different child rearing experience didn't understand what the problem was.

Two problems with that: He should not have been told my thoughts via gossip. And he forgets that I am several several years his senior and that things happened before he was 46 chromosomes.

Family who truly loves one another and is toxic, doesn't do crap like that.

Kate's family is toxic and IIRC, her brother was the only one she was still on speaking terms with at the start of the show.

Does it excuse Kate's behavior. No--but I think her family history will EXPLAIN it.

Much as my family history explains how I got to where I was and therapy helped work through those issues so it can one day just go away all together.


Kate has issues, no doubt. But seriously--the crap they are pulling up to throw on a headline are so inconsequential when you actually read the articles.

But here's the thing--most people do not read the articles. They see the headlines and blab to their friends.

News is based on catchy headlines, so the reputable outfits are going with the headlines.

At this point I feel bad for the Gosselin family b/c the country has sincerely lost all sense of reason and are on a witch hunt like none has been seen since the Salem Witch trials.


This is where it will be "fun" if you will to watch the outcry when the court system doesn't shut down everything like folks want done.

They'll blame it on crappy government but the decisions will be constituationally sound.

B/c parents still have rights and one cannot argue that it is okay for a child to act in a tv show but not be filmed playing on a swing set.

Mom2Maddie said...

This was just added to people.com do you think after the investigation is complete and they are found to comply with the laws that Julie, Jodi & Kevin will shut up?


Jon and Kate Gosselin are going through a difficult time in their marriage – and now they may have even more trouble to deal with.

The Pennsylvania labor department is investigating whether the hit TLC show Jon and Kate Plus 8 is complying with the state's child labor laws, a spokesman tells PEOPLE.

"I can confirm that our bureau of labor law compliance is conducting an investigation as they do whenever they receive a charge," said Christopher Manlove, a spokesman for the Pennsylvania Department of Labor and Industry.

Manlove would not say who filed the complaint, when it was filed or what the exact allegations are. "Because the case is ongoing I can't discuss the content of the investigation," he said.

In response to the investigation, TLC released a statement Friday saying, "TLC fully complies with all applicable laws and regulations. Jon and Kate + 8 is no exception. For an extended period of time, we have been engaged in cooperative discussions and supplied all requested information to the Pennsylvania Department of Labor. We will continue to engage the appropriate officials and meet any standards or regulations that are applicable to TLC productions."

The hit show follows the daily lives of Jon, Kate and their eight children.

Paula said...

Tyra said...
The only thing I would find more repellant than the gossip media interviews Jodi and Kevin have been doing would be Julie announcing that the fees paid to Jodi and Kevin for their gossip will be used to create an organization to help advance the cause to protect reality show kids.

Really, Julie's silence on the issue of whether Jodi and Kevin were paid is a bit deafening.

May 29, 2009 11:30 AM

Actually, if you go to Julie's blog you will see that they are trying to raise money for A Minor Cnsideration not donated by Jodi and Kevin, but from the public. I agree a bit deafening!

Linda said...

I'm betting that the investigation by the PA Department of Labor will yield little because laws don't exist to respond to children participating in reality shows.

Quiltart said...

Linda said...

I'm betting that the investigation by the PA Department of Labor will yield little because laws don't exist to respond to children participating in reality shows.
In addition, as stated in the article, TLC says they have all the proper papers and are following whatever laws are in place for children working (not in reality shows, as there is no statute for that, but working as a lot of Amish children do work in PA) in the state. With the amount of experience that Discovery has in this type of program and with their large legal department, I would be surprised if they haven't already checked out what is required and what is not allowed with the children... Especially after all the haters' letter campaigns since the show began. IMO, of course...

Paula said...

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/showbiz/2009/05/29/sbt.paul.peterson.cnn

Paul P. is speaking out about the children being exploited, maybe some impact is being made. I don't know what to think.

Quiltart said...

I don't know about the rest of you, but it seems very strange to me that the only children who are purported to be exploited on reality TV are the Gosselin children. What about all the other families with shows? Do they get a free pass just because the mom on the show is not Kate Gosselin?
This all seems more like a very calculated witch hunt to me and I think it is WRONG!

Theresa said...

Paula said...
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/showbiz/2009/05/29/sbt.paul.peterson.cnn

Paul P. is speaking out about the children being exploited, maybe some impact is being made. I don't know what to think.

May 29, 2009 2:33 PM
Paula, I know what to think. It's Paul Petersen horning in on the media frenzy and getting his two cents in and another 15 minutes of fame. He's a child exploiter under the guise of "advocate". He's also well-regarded at gwop. He's just pushing this misguided agenda of "helping the kids". Everything he said was stated on gwop.

As with all the news anchors reporting anything Gosselin now and using the word "exploitation", many are using that word because they pick it up from a hate blog or their producers read those blogs to find out what the hot button is. They truly are not accessing the situation and using the proper terms. They are only adding to the media problem using language and talking about situations that are not proven.

Anybody who wants to help the children, whether it's the Gosselin children, the Krieder kids (who'll need just as much, if not more help), or children in general, do your advocacy work in private. Don't make such a stink about it. That's what Paul Petersen is. He's an old, child actor making a stink. He's not around to "help".

I agree with Linda. Discovery and their legal departments are legit with all the proper procedures and papers. Let's face it, it's the ignorant and greedy who are crying foul and exploitation for their own purpsoses.

As far as the Gosselin children, I see well-kept, well-provided for, smart, funny, and well-loved chidlren.

Quiltart, I was thinking the same thing. The Gosselin children are the only ones being exploited? because it is indeed the witch hunt on Kate. Very, very wrong on so many levels. And, these "child advocates" are the true exlploiters and the ones who'll be messing up the Gosselin children when they google their name.

Paula said...

Thank you Quiltart! That's my thought exactly. Until I read your post I couldn't figure it out in my own mind. LOL

jace said...

Agreed. It all seems not so much for the children as against Kate.

Anya said...

Quiltart, I agree with you.

No worries about the Duggar children having to mourn for their grandfather on-screen? No concerns for Zach Roloff having to navigate the world of teen dating as a little person as eager eyes follow him? No distress over the older Hayes boys who are just about to enter the difficult territory of teenhood having to open the door to cameras?

Yeah, the silence is deafening on this one too.

As for Paul Peterson, if I were Julie and GWoP, I would be a bit perturbed that he showed them little to no interest for months after he intitally commented on the case and only re-appears when there are a bunch of cameras and newspeople eager for "his take." Blech.

Paula said...

Theresa.. thank you for the input. I knew there was something fishy about him because he was associated with Julie's blog but I really don't know the whole story about that and I'm not sure I want too. LOL

goodgirl said...

Eight children are being destroyed by a greedy television network and their own greedy, self-absorbed parents. This story gets sicker and sadder by the minute, and the debacle plays out on a public stage. Jon and Kate started this show out of need and continued it out of greed.

Guinevere said...

Kate has a giant PR machine behind her (witness the TLC "blog", the book tour for a book that bears BOTH Jon and Kate's name), the People mag article with Kate's pic on front and interviewing only her and on it goes.I think it's an exaggeration to say that Kate has a "giant" PR machine at her disposal. Her books have been with a small publisher; I doubt they have as much experience dealing with a book that has had as much success as "Multiple Blessings" has. TLC is a network and J&K+8 is its most successful show, so yes, they are going to have some PR prowess behind them. But we're not talking Tom Cruise-levels here, I don't think.

I think the "PR machine" has only grown with the controversy. People did a nice little feature on the Gosselins last year, but it wasn't that different than the nice little features they do on various people who quickly sink back into obscurity. Kate got on the cover of People not because she has a huge PR machine behind her, but because of the scandals and gossip that have surrounded the Gosselins lately. Scandals and gossip driven a lot by people who hate them. That's why they had huge ratings on Monday. Not because Kate's PR team is top-notch but because the people who are trying to bring her down have agitated so much and have eaten up every nasty rumor and come back for more. It's one of the weird ironies of this whole thing that the haters have brought Kate much more success than she's had previously (they've also hurt her, I think, no doubt her reputation and perhaps even emotionally - I wouldn't know).

People should really stop fighting about the adults and pay attention to the children!So that's what Jodi and Kevin were doing when they gossiped about Kate's made-up affair, her baking and her forcing Kevin to do her chores 30 years ago? Please explain to me WHAT any of that had to do with the Gosselin children. And why THEY had to go to a tabloid that would pay them. If they couldn't have gotten to the Washington Post they could've published their allegations on the web for free. Certainly, the tabs would've picked it up because by then the stories had already started about Jon partying, etc. The only difference is, Kevin and Jodi wouldn't have been paid.

I've just been very surprised at how ridiculously petty and unrelated to welfare of the Gosselin children the Jodi and Kevin Radar Online interviews have been. Where are the stories of the kids being abused and unhappy? I can only conclude one of two things: 1) they don't have any such stories to tell or 2) they are saving them for the big payoff they anticipate they would get with a book.

Child advocacy at its finest, folks!

MrsRef said...

The sad thing is that there are NO child labor laws in Pa. That is the problem. Those kids are "working" and never get to go to the safe haven called home. TLC is correct, they haven't filmed the kids in their rooms (at the new house) but there is plenty of footage from their bedrooms from the old house. The big problem will be if and when the IRS starts looking into their finances. As far as the Amish go, there is plenty of public scrutiny and outrage towards them also. The public is annoyed that they presumably get a pass due to their religous values. Just two weeks ago, a 2 year old amish girl was killed when a tractor ran over her. Read the comments left at the local newspaper about that one.

Guinevere said...

I've been reading for awhile and I'm curious as to how a blog that is anti-Jodi and tears her down (something that is pointed out repeatedly here as a bad thing when it is done to Kate) is somehow accetable? Is it only okay if Kate isn't the target or is it really okay when women tear down other women? Because not everyone agrees with Jodi's view and what she is saying, is it okay to treat her the way everyone complains about Kate being treated?

I smell a serious double standard here and I'm curious if someone could clarify why ripping Jodi a new one is okay, while isn't not okay when someone in the blog world does it to Kate.
I can only speak for myself; I have no double standard here. I don't have a problem with criticizing Kate. I have myself criticized Kate. I have a problem with calling CPS on her, joking about her being murdered, comparing her to murderers, expressing the desire to see Jon beat her, and calling her a monster and evil. All on a pretty much daily basis.

If people were doing the same to Jodi, I would have an issue with it. I think some people have been a little harsh on Jodi, but I'm not going to argue with every instance of someone being a little harsh, just as I wouldn't argue with every instance of someone being a little harsh on Kate. People are entitled to their opinions and unless I think that opinion is really beyond the pale, it's probably not worth it to me to contradict it.

I don't think Jodi is a horrible person. She has been venerated as all things good and holy by the anti-Gosselinites (seriously, some of the things I've read about her would send a diabetic into a sugar coma), and I for one think her behavior of the past couple of weeks has put paid to that notion for good. I think she's shown herself to be jealous, spiteful and self-righteous. I won't call her greedy because I don't really know that her motive has been money, but I do think accepting money for the things she's said is extremely distasteful. I think she probably still thinks she cares about the Gosselin kids, but I think there must be some serious self-delusion going on for her to believe that gossiping about their mother's non-affair is at all good for them.

I hope this clarification satisfies your curiousity.

Anya said...

MrsRef said...The big problem will be if and when the IRS starts looking into their finances.

Hey, nice to see you posting.

Just curious what you think the IRS would uncover. Are you talking about the "love offerings" and stuff like that?

I guess my take would be most of the Gosselin's income of the last couple of years is easily traceable so I would be surprised if they could "hide" anything. Of course, we have all heard of celebrities who have been busted for tax evasion, so I am not saying it's not possible. I just haven't seen anything - other than blog postings - suggesting anything improper as to their taxes.

SallyS. said...

Yes TLC is complying with PA child labor work laws because PA has no child labor work laws. Reality t.v. is a new genre and no state government is capable of dealing with it. California, New York, yes... but Georgia, PA, and wherever the multiple reality t.v. shows are filmed don't have laws protecting the children. But I think the Gosselins are the TLC's cash cow and are filmed extensively vs. the other family reality shows. I'm sure that the Duggars, Roloffs are not getting 40 hours a season and who knows how many of those 40 hours don't make the editing. I am sure TLC is filming a heck of alot more than 40 hours. If TLC is editing the J&K plus 8 show then they are doing a crappy job... showing the tantrums, meltdown, poopie diapers, etc... IMO there is going to be legislation down the road to prevent this exploitation of children disregarding their parent's needs or not.

Guinevere said...

As for Paul Peterson, if I were Julie and GWoP, I would be a bit perturbed that he showed them little to no interest for months after he intitally commented on the case and only re-appears when there are a bunch of cameras and newspeople eager for "his take." Blech.That's a good point. I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but I don't really know what to think of him. I think he might be a mixture of sincere/misguided/famehound. Certainly devoting one's life to child advocacy is a noble pursuit, but I'm just not sure how much of it with him is a desire to remain in the spotlight, and how much of his views are colored by his own negative experiences.

I really don't understand suggesting that the Gosselins are cheating on their taxes since I have heard any evidence of this. I know some haters have claimed to have contacted the IRS to try to get the Gosselins investigated, but beyond that, I wasn't aware that there were any tangible causes for concern.

Yes TLC is complying with PA child labor work laws because PA has no child labor work laws.Well, in that case, it seems to me that efforts to get PA to investigate the Gosselins would be better served towards getting legislation in place to protect all children, since you admit that they can't possibly have broken laws that don't in fact exist.

I'm sure that the Duggars, Roloffs are not getting 40 hours a season and who knows how many of those 40 hours don't make the editing. So how many hours do you think is acceptable? It just seems to me that for so many "child advocates", it's okay if the Duggars, Roloffs or someone else does something, because x, y, z, but it's not okay if Kate Gosselin does it. Which leads to the natural conclusion that it's not about the kids at all, but about hating Kate.

Kuromi said...

Paul Petersen abandoned the Gosselins as soon as he was able to get on the Octuplet bandwagon a couple of weeks ago. Now that the media attention on this (well, on Gloria Allred) has died a bit, he's back to the Gosselins.

ANDREA said...

I always thought Kevin was a total creepster and Jodi was as fake as that squeaky little voice, I guess my fears are realized here. I don't like that all these people are working under the "advocacy" shpeel, it makes people who are true advocates for children look bad. Kevin and Jodi are just looking to get a piece of the pie. They are picking up the crumbs and a "tell-all" will destroy those kids.

Thinking about the Children said...

sallys's comment "I am sure TLC is filming a heck of alot more than 40 hours."

You hit the nail on the proverbial head sally. Think of your local news. Each story every night averages about a minute-to-a minute and a half.
It takes a full 8-hour day (usually more) to film and gather all that info, and that includes several hours of interviews and "tape", which is edited down into the minute-long story.

For a half-hour to hour episode, multiply those figures and you're talking about very little private time for the children.

There are only 52 weeks in a year, so 40 episodes is the better part of the year.

That's just wrong on so many levels.

I don't think the focus should be on anyone other than the children.
I really don't understand what's left to defend.
It's painfully clear now that the children are being exploited.
I'll admit I had no idea people were getting paid to sell the children.
They always billed it as "reality" and under the old terms, reality meant just that - and no payment was involved.

Paying for minors is more than exploitation - it's illegal.
I'm so glad to now this will all end soon.
I hope it's not too late for the children to regain their happiness.

Saint said...

There are only 52 weeks in a year, so 40 episodes is the better part of the year.

That's just wrong on so many levels.
......

This is a great point. I think it is way too many, too. ITA.

But the rest of your post, about selling children, makes no sense to me. They aren't being sold into slavery. There are children alive facing that particular horror and it diminishes their suffering, in my mind, to describe the Gosselin kids' problem with too much camera time in the same way.

Joannah said...

Just out of curiosity: Where do you all see shows like Nanny 911; Supernanny, and Wife Swap? to me, those kids are downright not willing participants, not familiar with cameras, it is all about the children melting down. Those are more telling of child exploitation than Jon and Kate plus 8 ever has or will be. Has any child advocate had CPS investigate these shows and families?

MarieSea said...

The sad thing is that there are NO child labor laws in Pa.There are child labor laws in PA. There are also federal child labor laws. If there was a movie with actors being filmed in PA there are laws that they need to abide by.

The investigation is to make sure that TLC is abiding by the law.

Fanny said...

I totally agree that there should be some type of laws in place to protect children in all forms of media, be it reality tv or movies, but WHY, after the show has been on for 4 seasons, is the PA department of labor getting involved? Where none of them aware that this show existed before now, or are they just scrambling to cover their behinds now that things are what they are? With all of the criticism the Gosselins have gotten in the past year it's hard for me to believe that no one has reported them before.

A Mom-ynous said...

"You hit the nail on the proverbial head sally. Think of your local news. Each story every night averages about a minute-to-a minute and a half.
It takes a full 8-hour day (usually more) to film and gather all that info, and that includes several hours of interviews and "tape", which is edited down into the minute-long story."

*******

Ummm--wow!

I don't know what to say. It actually depends on the news story adn what is taking place. Reporters often work multiple
stories.

Clearly you have never worked in news production.

It is very obvious which stories have been covered for hours and which just had a few moments of the news team present to document the story.

***********************************
"I'm betting that the investigation by the PA Department of Labor will yield little because laws don't exist to respond to children participating in reality shows."

Dept of Labor will have no jurisdiction if the children are not considred "working".

And if they were--then entertainment law would apply and they can be filmed up to 44 hours per week.

So much for getting them off the air. A slight reclassification and they will continue as strong as ever.

Quiltart said...

Kuromi said...

Paul Petersen abandoned the Gosselins as soon as he was able to get on the Octuplet bandwagon a couple of weeks ago. Now that the media attention on this (well, on Gloria Allred) has died a bit, he's back to the Gosselins.
Paul Petersen didn't JUST abandon the Gosselins when Octomom came on the scene. He has not spoken about the Gosselins on his website since Octobber 2008. Curious that he's suddenly back, isn't it?

A Mom-ynous said...

"I don't think the focus should be on anyone other than the children.
I really don't understand what's left to defend."
********************

Parental rights. I'd prefer not to have my rights removed b/c folks are jealous of the Gosselin family and believe that perfect parenting should be legislated.




"Paying for minors is more than exploitation - it's illegal."

**************************
What are you talking about.

There are many minors in the entertainment field, not to mention your local grocer who get paid. Since when is it illegal to pay a minor

It seems you are posting out of both sides of your mouth here. On one hand the children are working, but on the other hand it is illegal to pay them?

There is no child labor law in existence that would prohibit a child from earning an income.

Perhaps you mean something else and can elaborate. But for now, I am responding based on the context of that statement.




"Where none of them aware that this show existed before now, or are they just scrambling to cover their behinds now that things are what they are? "
**********************

TLC has been quoted in a recent article that they have been working with PA Dept of Labor for quite some time and have fulfilled all requests for information now.

They are checking into it now b/c complaints have been formally filed and they are obligated to investigate the complaints.

Kevin and Jodi could have lodged a complaint long ago, but I suspect they never did.

In any case--it is news now b/c it is related the Gosselines and they are presently in controversy.

This would have been page 8 news without the controversy--IF anyone still decided to lodge a complaint.

ANDREA said...

Think about the children,
Your statement about how long it takes to produce a news show is misinformation at it's finest. Yes it takes a full day to gather information/edit interviews, however the anchors are only working a few hours out of that. Yes people film and edit the Gosselin's but that editing time in no way includes the children or the family. They are being filmed no more than 24 hours a week, tops. The editing and interviews are completely separate from the kids so including the time necessary for such things as editing only serves as an attempt to mislead people into thinking the kids "work" an 80 hour week, they don't.

A reality show such as this does not WANT nor need 80+ hours of footage. They don't want to pay a film crew for any more time than they need nor do they want to pay someone to edit down 80 hours of film into 30-60 minute episodes. I promise you that.

Illinois Mom said...

I told myself I was done with this and yet I came back.

I feel guilty about it. I don't condone any of this. It makes me feel terrible that this family is destructing and that I have this icky need to follow it!

Anyone else feel like this? We don't know these people, but we are making it our business to follow this media-gossip blizt!

YUCK! I need a 12 step program!

Sadey said...

I can only say, that I hope that whatever happens next, will be in the best interest of the children. I don't care who is in forefront of this investigation, what matters is that both TLC and Jon and Kate are put under a microscope and those children are protected. This applies to all other reality shows.The show has run its course. People, Jon and Kate will survive if the show ends.
I don't know how many more millions will ever be enough for either of them. These children to many,may not be abused, but clearly the stress of an impending divorce can have devestating scars, give them privacy and a chance to get through these troublesome times. How can a mother or a father not be concerned with the mental well being of their own children. Enough already!!!!!!!If these to dimwits can't protect their own children because of the almighty dollar, let someone else step in on their behalf. If the show gets cancelled tomorrow they won't be homeless,starving,or naked. A mother never should put her wants or needs before her children. Many of times I've gone without so that my children could have just the basics...GOOD lUCK Gosselin children and may it all work out to your advantage......

Illinois Mom said...

He's a child exploiter under the guise of "advocate". He's also well-regarded at gwop. He's just pushing this misguided agenda of "helping the kids". Everything he said was stated on gwop.



Paul Peterson is well-respected and has done a lot for legislation to protect child actors. I strongly disagree that he is doing anything for attention for himself and this is an inflammatory statement. I have not seen him align himself with GWoP. His site has been around much longer than that blog.

I do think he should have dug in much harder a year ago as should have JODI and KEVIN. It infuriates me the avenues they are taking. Julie and her blog is infuriating.

But to call Paul Peterson a child expoitler is ignorant IMO.

Illinois Mom said...

Let's face it, it's the ignorant and greedy who are crying foul and exploitation for their own purpsoses.

And TLC isn't greedy at all, are they? There position in this is unconscienable!

ANYA, I agree, all the kids on reality tv should be being brought up here. I think that is make this singleing out look so bad. Maybe they will be brought into in. At this point, I think the attention is primarliy due to the irresponsible behavior of Jon and Kate.

SallyS said...

Thank Goodness the authorites are investigating this train wreck. Sorry Jon & Kate but your gravy train is about to end. TLC you exloitation of this famoly is about to end. Sorry Kate and Jon but you are going to have to find some other way to support your family. The hours of filming for Season 4 & r have been exposed and do not comply with child labor acts in other states. Paul Peterson is an advocate for child actors and God Bless him cause he is living proof of parent exploitation of their children. Jon and Kate, TLC are guilty during these last two season of greedy, money grubbing, antics that have affected these 8 children. Finally, Finally, the guilty parties will be slapped on their hands for their goal of the almighty dollar. With all this mess Season 5 will be the last and maybe, just maybe the 8 children will be able to live a normal life. Kate can pursue her career as author, talk show host, and Jon well, Jon can pursue whatever he wants to. Hopefully outside family will be able to come back into the lives of these children.

Theresa said...

Illinois Mom, thanks for the scolding and I expected you to disageree with me (as you make that your agenda to always cut down what I say), but I stand by my statement. He has his advocacy group that has done work for minors, yes, but to be putting his face in this Gosselin media frenzy, he's just as much a part of the exploitation. Sorry.

Paul Petersen is misguided in his efforts with the Gosselins. Why isn't he whole heartedly going after the Duggers, Roloffs, and the others?

His face conveniently pops up now. Right...

And TLC isn't greedy at all, are they? There position in this is unconscienable!I never said TLC wasn't greedy. I totally believe their position in this is what magnified all media attention on the Gosselins these last few months.

Theresa said...

ANDREA said...
Think about the children,
Your statement about how long it takes to produce a news show is misinformation at it's finest. Yes it takes a full day to gather information/edit interviews, however the anchors are only working a few hours out of that. Yes people film and edit the Gosselin's but that editing time in no way includes the children or the family. They are being filmed no more than 24 hours a week, tops. The editing and interviews are completely separate from the kids so including the time necessary for such things as editing only serves as an attempt to mislead people into thinking the kids "work" an 80 hour week, they don't.

A reality show such as this does not WANT nor need 80+ hours of footage. They don't want to pay a film crew for any more time than they need nor do they want to pay someone to edit down 80 hours of film into 30-60 minute episodes. I promise you that.

May 29, 2009 6:38 PM
Andrea you're spot on in the workings of the editing process. I used to work production in a news crew at one time in my life. All that you wrote is how it is indeed done.

HW said...

MarieSea said...
Let's see ... this whole thing started because Jodi felt it was okay to be paid to be an aunt. So how shocking is it that her husband wants to be paid to be a jerk?
**********************

I think this whole thing started when Jon and Kate decided it was okay to be paid to be parents. All of the adults in this family are failing these kids.

Thinking about the Children said...

Okay, some of you here are now proving you have no interest in these kids whatsoever.

It doesn't matter what a knowledgeable person says, you try to counter with extremely ill-informed rants.

People with different levels of experience are offering insight into various aspects of what is going on.
Try listening. We can all learn something from others, if we are willing.

I worked in Television News for over 15 years and was being extremely generous with my timelines.

To say that 'anchors' are only there for a few hours.
That is gut-busting laughable.

I worked 24/7 many, many, many days and traveled all over the country and sometimes the world.

I was being generous in describing a "regular" day, but in fact, most news days are extremely irregular, and if you have a hostage situation or police stand-off, or fire or any number of breaking news situations, you are often on-site round the clock. I am talking 24 hours.

It does indeed takes hours of filming - I know.

These kids are traveling long distances. And we have seen them all hours of the day and night.
The camera crew doesn't just follow them packing one day and join up with them a week later at their destination.
No - we see them at home getting ready, at the airport, on the plane, at their destination and on it goes.

Try listening to what people who know what they are talking about for once.
Try it -- you may learn something.

What is your point anyway?

Are you NOT commenting for the sake of the children?

They are being exploited and damaged. This much is painfully clear.

The parents ARE getting divorced.
What more proof do you need that they need to be protected (and not just them - but sadly - they are going to be the "case study" for reality tv child exploitation).
If these kids can be saved, then there is hope for ALL of our children?

Do you have a problem with that?

And actually, it doesn't matter now anyway.
Thankfully, those with real power will stepping in to save those children from further destruction.
Isn't that what we all want?

Anya said...

Illinois Mom said...
I told myself I was done with this and yet I came back.

I feel guilty about it. I don't condone any of this. It makes me feel terrible that this family is destructing and that I have this icky need to follow it!

Anyone else feel like this? We don't know these people, but we are making it our business to follow this media-gossip blizt!

YUCK! I need a 12 step program!


I know how you feel. I have been checking web sites I don't normally check (Radar, etc.) to get "the latest." It's natural to be interested, but I think everyone would do well to take a step back. Let the Gosselins have some breathing room and give ourselves a break. Filming of Season 5 may be continuing, but that doesn't mean we all need a daily picture of Kate running errands or Jon doing whatever he happens to be doing. Certainly I think we can all agree the kids deserve to be able to go out in public without this going on. (Yes, I know they are sometimes followed by Figure 8 cameras, but that is different in my opinion than some of this "P People" intrusion.

I continue to have mixed feelings about Paul Peterson. I certainly do *not* call him a child exploiter. More likely, he has mixed motives (something I also think Jodi and Kevin have). Part of him is in it for the right reasons, part of him perhaps to gain further legitimacy and funding for his organization. JMO.

Michele said...

Thinknig about the Children, I too am an anchor in TV news, 17 years this August. I work many irregular hours. I can see how you were offended by that statement that we are only there for a few hours.

However, I believe Andrea was stating, in the context of this show, that it's not the children who are laboring for long periods of time. They are simply filmed. And, when we see them at night, doesn't necessarily mean the children have had cameras on them all day long. It is the editors and producers who are piecing together footage.

ANDREA said...

Thinking about the Children says
Try listening to what people who know what they are talking about for once.
Try it -- you may learn something.

No I'm not here to discuss whether or not the kids are "exploited" I don't know them and I'm not about to run around screaming my head off based on a completely ridiculous and unfounded statement regarding how long they work. I also don't believe you know much of anything about the inner working of reality television.

First off your entire comparison between a reporter and kids on a reality show is flawed to begin with. No one is calling Collin in to cover a hostage situation at 3:30 in the morning. There is no "emergency filming". The film crew gets what they needs and leaves. TLC and Figure 8 want to make a profit so they need to keep costs low which means keeping filming and editing to a minimum.

You claim to have worked in television, but yet you seem to think they are dragging five year old kids into the editing room to discuss cuts, considering you've included "editing" into your "hours worked per week".

News is different from reality television. I'm a writer and I'm bright enough to know that feature writing for a magazine is completely different from newspaper writing. They are different games with different deadlines, different obligations and so on and so forth.

Tyra said...

And actually, it doesn't matter now anyway.
Thankfully, those with real power will stepping in to save those children from further destruction.
Isn't that what we all want?
The thing that will tell me that responsible authorities are taking steps to protect the children is that they won't be blathering to the gossip media. I hope that soul-sucking monster gets bored and moves on soon.

Whatever it is that you know about the news anchor business, I don't buy that it qualifies you as an authority on reality tv. A hostage situation? A police stand-off? What does that have to do with a reality show? I can be persuaded by logic and reasoned discourse, but you didn't offer that. You happen to be the only one ranting here.

Iris said...

Andrea thanks for the laugh. Your explanation of editing made pure sense to me and others.

Sarah said...

Methinks ThinkingaobouthteChildren is sock puppeting and even making up stories of being an anchor now. Standing on the rocks in the ocean can do that to you!

Tyra said...

I continue to have mixed feelings about Paul Peterson. I certainly do *not* call him a child exploiter. More likely, he has mixed motives (something I also think Jodi and Kevin have). Part of him is in it for the right reasons, part of him perhaps to gain further legitimacy and funding for his organization. JMO.I appreciate the way Paul Peterson speaks in a broader context, and at the same time, he keeps his focus very narrow: just on the issue of the conditions that many different kids are working under. (I don't expect that we'll ever hear him talking about what an 'emasculating bitch' Kate is.) I think his motives are a lot more pure than JodiJulieKevinGWoP.

I also think that he was very careful not to get tangled up with either GWoP or Julie's site: they link to him, but his site doesn't link to them. And while he's sent e-mails to them, he's never posted at GWoP (as far as I know). Either he's following a general policy of not getting into bed with internet groups (which is smart, imo, because crazy isn't limited to GWoP), or he actually looked them over and realized that a direct association with them would sully his own interests. I give him points for that.

Quiltart said...

I think that some are under the mistaken notion that the show being investigated means the show will be pulled from the air. IMHO, this is not the case at all. The authorities will come in and see whether or not they are in violation and if there are violations, the probems will be fixed and the show will go on.

I've long thought that if something was going on that shouldn't be, with all the people coming and going from that house, (and their old house, too), something would have been done long before now. ...Especially since TLC has said all along that they have worked with the authorities.

A Mom-ynous said...

"The hours of filming for Season 4 & r have been exposed and do not comply with child labor acts in other states."

***************

Pennsylvania permits child actors to work 44 hours per week.

So on shows such as the "date shows"--when the children were not all being filmed at the same time (clearly)--the children were within the labor law of the state.

The premier with the birthday party, the shopping for decorations, the random video at home and the bbq (clearly filmed at a different time all together)--was done in way less than 44 hours.

The hyperbole and dare I say it "lies" and lack of knowledge on the film schedule and the basic lack of common sense is astounding.



Heck, they were within the child labor law of many states.




"And TLC isn't greedy at all, are they? There position in this is unconscienable!"

All of America is greedy then as this is a capitalistic society.

Your hyperbole and shock regarding that is comical.

Suprised that a corporation watches their bottome line?

A Mom-ynous said...

"Okay, some of you here are now proving you have no interest in these kids whatsoever.

It doesn't matter what a knowledgeable person says, you try to counter with extremely ill-informed rants."

I haven't seen knowledge, yet. I have seen much supposition and hyperbole, but no facts to support that even if the child labor laws for entertainment in the state of PA apply--that the show would be in violation.

Or do you on purpose fail to acknowledge the laws of the state that child actors can work 44 hours per week to suit your own agenda?




"To say that 'anchors' are only there for a few hours.
That is gut-busting laughable.

I worked 24/7 many, many, many days and traveled all over the country and sometimes the world."

Well, 'round these parts, the ONLY time the staff works 24/7 is when a hurricane warning is in effect, the station is on lockdown and they adhere to their duties to keep the public safe (while they do stupid things like stand outside in a rain band and 100 mph windgusts).

But this is just redneck Florida. PErhaps in the big city it is different.

Depending on the TYPE of tv journalism, that can impact your hours (i.e. investigative) and depending on what is going on (WTC attack kind of thing) that can impact your hours.

And of course if you were embedded in a wartime situation, that would impact your hours--but eventually you would sleep *some*. But anchors rarely do that except for a special series or something--not 24/7 for weeks on end.

What is gut-busting laughable is the advocates wanting the Gosselins to be covered under the law like actors--and they forget that actors can ACT for 44 hours a week in Pennsylvania.

But wait--they just watn them off the air. So even if there were a law it would not be good enough.

And here--the morning anchors get to the station at 3 and work until about noon. (9 hours) and if they have a feature they are working on, they will stick around to work on that (so maybe 12 hours). The nighttime anchors typically arrive around 2 or 3pm and then stay until roughly midnight (9 hours again!) They work about 5 days a week with additional work for public appearances and special stories they are working on.

And Orlando isn't a dinky market.

There are exceptions of course--but seriously, you speak in hyperbole to place your work experience as typical of any anchor or any reporter.

If you truly have experience in the field, you would truly know what it takes to put together a newscast, but it seems you missed out on some fundamental basics. A newsroom may operate 24/7, but they have many to share the load especially in the top markets.

***************************

A Mom-ynous said...

"and if you have a hostage situation or police stand-off, or fire or any number of breaking news situations, you are often on-site round the clock. I am talking 24 hours."

True--but anchors are NOT on-site btw. Hardly ever unless a special remote was set up and usually that is for "happier" times and on rare occasions sad times. But again typically, that is on the national level.

Some markets are also not as violent as others mind you.

And I would hope that we can agree that this is not the life of the Gosselin family. The cameras are NOT there 24/7. Not even close. Or are you proposing that we have a violent hostage situation with filming a child in a bounce house?

Lately, there has been lack of night time shots, lack of early morning shots, continuity--footage filmed very close together in close proximity with no sense of elapsed time.

Just b/c some trips had the cameras tag along--seriusly? They were on vacation not a movie set.

A Mom-ynous said...

*******************
"Try listening to what people who know what they are talking about for once.
Try it -- you may learn something."

You might try the same. But instead you rather place your "expertise" over the knowledge of anyone else and have decided that your vision of what is taking place is the only way it could be taking place.


****************
"What is your point anyway?

Are you NOT commenting for the sake of the children?

They are being exploited and damaged. This much is painfully clear.

The parents ARE getting divorced."

I'm all for wanting the greater good.

It is not good morals to twist facts and utilize deception under the premise of saving anything.

I'm commenting on a television show and pointing out the glaring inconsistincies and oxymorons of the advocates. You had them in your own posts.

If you don't wish to be called on it, be more consistent and accurate and use real facts and not the ones you have made up to suit your agenda. Opinions are not facts.

For example:

You know for a fact that they are divorcing?

Can you provide the link with the proven statement that they have consulted attorneys and have begun the process?

They "may" divorce--but it is not 100% that they "are" divorcing.

Again, you are stretching facts to suit your opinion and agenda to prove something that may or may not be there.

I disagree that the children are being exploited. We do not have the ins and outs of the contracts or actual filming situation. I will be willing to concede if facts were presented and it fits the legal definition of exploitation.

All it fits right now is the definition of jealousy.


We have guesses and suppositions, but we lack concrete evidence that the parents are exploiting and doing harm to the kids.

A Mom-ynous said...

***************
"If these kids can be saved, then there is hope for ALL of our children?

Do you have a problem with that?"

I have a problem with the overdramatization of what is taking place and exaggerating outside observations to create a situation that may not exist.

I have a problem with the stripping of parental rights just b/c you think it is best.

I.e. I homeschool and my children are thriving. There are people in this country who could care less. They believe all homeschooling is harmful that kids must be schooled in a box with 20 kids their own age by a teacher who must teach to the middle b/c she cannot customize her lesson plans for 20 kids nor should she be expected to.

But some would consider what I do child abuse.

Thankfully the constitution and all 50 states see it differently.

I don't want my supposed peers telling me how I should parent based on their paradigm of perfection.

As it stands--folks will be watching these children for years to come and saying "they did this b/c they were on tv" as if tv caused a rebellion or a speeding ticket.

Those folks need to get a life.

Why do you feel the need to interfere with the parenting choices of other parents?


********************


"Thankfully, those with real power will stepping in to save those children from further destruction.
Isn't that what we all want?"

Now there is a gut busting laughable statement.

No--what "we" (meaning the "advocates") want is:

Laws to protect the kids like they do child actors (okay--the kids can work 44 hours per week) BUT we want the Gosselins off the air anyway b/c "we" as armchair psychologists have studied and diagnosed the family without viewing any documents or logs of the show.

"We" want to be able to control other parents when we don't like what they do and call it abuse b/c it isn't how we would parent.


Nope--I have no interest in living in a Communist America where the government limits my family's choices thank you very much.

BTW--since you are against child exploitation of any kind, even those children already covered under entertainment law, I presume that you do not engage in ANY format of entertainment or commerce that at ANY point in its production and sale involved a minor of ANY age.

It would be hypocritical to advocate for the children as you do but you have violated the basic tenent that you preach.

Charlie said...

I don't get the TV anchor analogy at all. These kids are not sent out to cover stories that might occur at any time; they are not editing tape; they are not preparing for interviews, etc.

In fact, it is pretty clear the kids know little about the work involved in putting the show together. Cara and Mady wanted to try the producers job one day and they thought it just involved sitting in a chair asking questions. Both proclaimed the job "easy peasy." The kids are not involved in all the work described for the tv anchor.

Let's stick to analogies that make sense. My question is how does the Gosselin kids schedule stack up with other kids in the entertainment field - other family reality shows (Roloffs, Duggars, etc), non-reality shows (Miley Cyrus, etc), movies (Dakota Fanning, etc), music (all those 16 year olds on American Idol), and sports (thos young gymnasts)?

Let's keep the analogies relevant. How

Pat said...

While basic child protection laws do need to be in place, I think the debate needs to focus on how tightly as a society we want to regulate good parenting. Tons of kids have parents who have made questionable decisions in their upbringing.

There was recent case in the news about a 13 year old boy with cancer whose parents refused chemo. Of course, all these child advocates had nothing to say about that story.

Miley Cyrus certainly has parents who, I think, make questionable decisions on her behalf. Why is no one out advocating for her?

Closer to home, I see obsessed stage and sport parents daily. Those who insist their kids play and musical instrument or sport despite a very apparent lack of interest on the kids part. Who is advocating for all those kids forced to work on things they are not interested in?

Dr. H said...

Why is getting a divorce deemed to traumatic? It's a divorce, not death. They'll still see both parents. My mom got divorced when I was 7 and it was nice to not see her be hit every night for once.

SarahW said...

Dr H, I think you have to separate marriages that fail because of physical abuse from those where there is simply boredom, dissatisfaction or contentiousness.

Although the case is often made that "everyone is better off" when quarreling parents separate, there is research disputing that current conventional wisdom.

Divorce, especially in families with young children, may not be better than quarreling parents. Children may in spite of all the contrary talk, do better with tension in the home than with a broken home.

I don't know what is the actual case. My feeling from my own anecdotal experience is no more valid that your own, but my own feeling is that "everone is better off" is indeed usually not the case at all, and its the children who suffer most.

I hope they pull it together against all the prevailing signs and reinvest in their family. Not my call, of course. But that's what I would wish for them all.

Dr. H said...

You know, it might depend on the kids too. Some of them might be fine with it, some might have serious issues about it. It really could depend on many things.

I think that people should work damn hard at keeping a marriage intact, but there are somethings that can't be worked though. It's not my call, I don't live it, ya know?

I am getting sick of not being able to go to the grocery store without seeing J&K something everywhere, though!

Trish said...

SarahH said...

"Dr H, I think you have to separate marriages that fail because of physical abuse from those where there is simply boredom, dissatisfaction or contentiousness.

Although the case is often made that "everyone is better off" when quarreling parents separate, there is research disputing that current conventional wisdom.

Divorce, especially in families with young children, may not be better than quarreling parents. Children may in spite of all the contrary talk, do better with tension in the home than with a broken home.

I don't know what is the actual case. My feeling from my own anecdotal experience is no more valid that your own, but my own feeling is that "everone is better off" is indeed usually not the case at all, and its the children who suffer most.

I hope they pull it together against all the prevailing signs and reinvest in their family. Not my call, of course. But that's what I would wish for them all."

-----------------------------------

Sarah-

I couldn't agree with you more.

Having gone through some pretty difficult things in my own married life and having pushed forward and worked things out, if it is at all possible they should try and work itout. My teenagers that remember how tense/diffucult things were have even said on several ocasions how happy they are that their family is still intact and together.

Guinevere said...

I tend to favor the "a divorced family is better than a miserable family that stays together" idea, but I'm only speaking from personal experience myself. I do think that there has been a lot of hyperbole thrown about on the subject of a possible J&K divorce, but hyperbole is par for the course when the Gosselins are discussed.

bigsis88 said...

Research has shown that children prefer divorced parents to parents who "stay together because of the children," but of course there's not that much research out there yet (since you can't orchestrate a divorce for an experiment). I think it depends mostly on whether the parents actually want to work it out. Some have commented (and I agree) that Jon did not seem to want to work on his marriage in Monday's episode, but of course we don't know what's in his heart. They both seemed pretty indecisive (maybe timid is a better word) in that episode, but I hope they make some decisions soon for the kids. Either start going to marriage counseling and commit to staying together, or go your separate ways. I don't see how a trial separation would work in their case, since their circumstances won't change (voluntarily) anytime soon.

Rachel107 said...

Really??? "Dirtbag" "Greedy & Dipstick" Really???

I frequent this site and comment here because, even though my opinion differs from most of the other people here, we can have discussions without relating to the childish things that go on elsewhere.

A Mom-ynous said...

Dr. H said...
Why is getting a divorce deemed to traumatic? It's a divorce, not death. They'll still see both parents. My mom got divorced when I was 7 and it was nice to not see her be hit every night for once.

May 30, 2009 7:23 AM

*********************

My mother has been divorced 4 times--2 before I really had any concept of what it was. It sadly just became the norm.

While I do have aspects of my childhood that were traumatic, divorce simply was not.

What makes it a trauma is how it is handled. If it is handled in a safe and loving manner (despite trashy tabloids)--then it does not have to be traumatic.

While the jaunts of Jon and Kate have been published, it isn't like at home the kids are witnessing this first hand.

Also--the psychology of how it is communicated to the children is highly important and from what I have read--as long as the children are made aware and believe it is not their fault, then there will not be trauma.

Most of the trauma that occurs in children of divorce is those who thought they were the reason or could have some how fixed it.

I won't go so far as to say that it is a "happy" event in non-abusive homes. But in some stories of separation and divorce, you do hear tales of children who suddenly are much more happy b/c the strife that was present in a broken marriage is gone and they are no longer living in a stressful circumstance.

Of the marriages that I was old enough to have an actual memory, I cannot think of one in which it was not better off that the adults in my life were divorced. I can also think of a few marriages that should never have taken place.

CaliMommy said...

Dr. H: Why do you want the Gosselins to divorce? In your case, a divorce would be preferable. In the case of the Gosselins, where there is no physical abuse (unless you know something we don't) between parents, the situation is different. If these kids do not see any conflict, and one of their parents is suddently taken away, I would think that would be pretty traumatic and confusing.

Theresa said...

It is not good morals to twist facts and utilize deception under the premise of saving anything.

I'm commenting on a television show and pointing out the glaring inconsistincies and oxymorons of the advocates. You had them in your own posts.

If you don't wish to be called on it, be more consistent and accurate and use real facts and not the ones you have made up to suit your agenda. Opinions are not facts.

For example:

You know for a fact that they are divorcing?

Can you provide the link with the proven statement that they have consulted attorneys and have begun the process?

They "may" divorce--but it is not 100% that they "are" divorcing.

Again, you are stretching facts to suit your opinion and agenda to prove something that may or may not be there.

I disagree that the children are being exploited. We do not have the ins and outs of the contracts or actual filming situation. I will be willing to concede if facts were presented and it fits the legal definition of exploitation.

All it fits right now is the definition of jealousy.


We have guesses and suppositions, but we lack concrete evidence that the parents are exploiting and doing harm to the kids.

May 30, 2009 6:23 AM
Thanks AMom-ynous, that's exactly what I think about the whole Gosselin situation and controversy (both before the recent media blitz) and now.

Mom2Maddie said...

Rachel107 said...

Really??? "Dirtbag" "Greedy & Dipstick" Really???

I frequent this site and comment here because, even though my opinion differs from most of the other people here, we can have discussions without relating to the childish things that go on elsewhere.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just want to make sure I get this right so as not to offend your delicate sensibility in the future. I can only assume since my posts were the only ones you quoted and deemed "childish" out of all the posts here it is ONLY ok to criticize Jodi & Kevin using the verb tense rather than a noun. Numerous people here have expressed their opinions about Jodi & Kevin describing them as loontune, evil, pathetic losers, hypocrites, self righteous, spiteful, jealous, fake, and in it for the money. Some even dared to say "What a loser", "Kevin is Garbage", "Jodi & Julie were lowlifes", "Kevin was a creepster" and my personal fav "paid to be a jerk." Not to mention the posts calling Jon & Kate greedy, money grubbing, crazy, dimwits, etc.

IMHO, anyone (including Kevin) that goes on tv/online interviews gossiping about their own sister's supposed affair or secret marriage contract is a dirtbag and/or dipstick. And as for Jodi, again IMHO, it seems the only time she feels the need to play "child advocate" is when money is involved. I call that greedy. If they were actually looking out for the children's best interests, they certainly wouldn't be adding to the dirty laundry being aired in public for the children to see. Sorry if this offends you but I call/name it like I see it.

Rachel107 said...

Sorry if I didn't quote all the names...those were the ones I saw. I know how annoyed we all are when Jon & Kate are called names. I am not offended, and I am not delicate. I just think it's childish to call people names. If you want to say someone is acting like a dirtbag or dipstick, or loser, or anything else, fine, but to change their name to that, is exactly the same as using the terms "Kon" and the like. Disagree with me if you will, but I see no difference between calling Jodi and Kevin names and calling Jon and Kate names.

Florida Mom said...

Rachel 107--
I agree 100%

Happy Anniversary!