Wednesday, May 20, 2009

TLC Ramps up their J&K Promotion, Jimmy Fallon Solves the J&K “Beef”


By Anya


Some took me to task yesterday for discussing the Jodi and Kevin hair situation. I know everyone will be very relieved to know there will be no mention of Gosselin or Kreider hair in this post! Instead, I will discuss my own. Lucky you! I got it colored yesterday and can I tell you how much I love the two plus weeks following a coloring when I have no discernable gray hair? Even better is the blow-out I got afterwards that takes care of my own frizz (you better believe I have it too) until the next shampoo. I think I’ll shampoo my hair next on…..June 9th.

Ok, onto the latest Gosselin developments.

Kate has a blog! Who doesn’t these days?

So far, there is just one entry discussing the infamous trip to the party store. Ok, let’s get a couple of things out of the way – I don’t really think she is necessarily writing this thing. And I agree parts of it read like Kate is addressing her critics -- such as her assertion that she went outside to play with the kids prior to the store trip. Maybe she did, maybe she didn’t, but knowing how she has been knocked for not playing with the kids enough (in some people’s minds) made me think the inclusion of this bit of information was deliberate. That said, I think the blog could be a good vehicle for her to get her version of events out there without involving magazines, etc. We will see, I guess.

Also, TLC has posted a “sneak peek” of the season five premiere. I have my own thoughts, but I’ll let you guys weigh in first.

Lastly, for a bit of levity, Jimmy Fallon performed an amusing send-up of the Gosselin “beef” on his late night television show the other night.

Enjoy.

113 comments:

Kikibee said...

Separate interviews-very dramatic!
They both say the right things, but they don't seem to act accordingly. I think they both love their children and want what is best for them. I just hope they can come to an agreement (off camera) on how to proceed. I think at this point they can still maintain some dignity and do what is best for their family. I would really hate to see them go the "duelling tell-all" route.

Oh, and Anya, I just colored my roots myself! I'm not some fancy lady like you and Kate, going to the salon all the time.

LoriNJ1970 said...

Jon seemed so sad or perhaps just beaten down by what his life has become.

If I knew them personally I would ask them what they are getting from this whole process..besides the money. It just doesn't seem worth it anymore but that's just my opinion.

One thing I did find interesting about Kates blog was the comments were all very positive. I wonder if they are only allowing approved comments or policing the blog closly.

Trish said...

Is there a link to John's interview?
For some reason I am not seeing it.
Thanks!

Anya said...

Lori, oh I am SURE TLC is only putting forth positive comments. Some bloggers were commenting about that yesterday, but let's be realistic, why would TLC allow negative comments on THEIR website that is designed to promote the show? I really can't blame them for only putting the positive ones through. I suppose it does make it less interesting to read through because the comments are all of the same ilk.

Trish, Jon's part of the interview comes towards the end of the TLC "sneak peek."

http://tlc.discovery.com/videos/jon-kate-plus-8-season-premiere-sneak-peek.html

Trish said...

Thanks, found it! :)

LoriNJ1970 said...

Anya said..

Lori, oh I am SURE TLC is only putting forth positive comments. Some bloggers were commenting about that yesterday, but let's be realistic, why would TLC allow negative comments on THEIR website that is designed to promote the show?

---------------------------------
I'm such a ditz I didn't even realize it was a TLC site. The missing venom that's ususally associated with the Gosslins was nice actually. Although some of the comments seem a little too Pollyannaish.

Three Amazing Kids said...

I got the chance to take a shower and actually pretreat my hair for the first time in weeks. OMG it feels so good.

Totally on topic since you were talking about hair

indianprincess said...

They have another sneak peak 30 sec video with Jon and Kate sitting together at the end of it looking at each other. Kevin/Jodi have another video about Beth writing the book. Hold the press..Beth wrote the book and not Kate!!! Shock I tell yah.. :) Everyone knows Beth wrote the book and tell us something we don't already know.

Guinevere said...

Jeez, Kevin and Jodi are really scraping the bottom of the barrel with their "insider knowledge" at this point. Pathetic.

Trish said...

Indianprincess said...

"They have another sneak peak 30 sec video with Jon and Kate sitting together at the end of it looking at each other."

I can't seem to find this one. The only one I am seeing is with the old set?

DurhamDora said...

Ok, I just spent WAY too much of my time updating myself on what's going on. I love that some (not here) think that Kate's blog is apparently "pretend," and also that her Wikipedia page is a sham. Ok, the Wikipedia page mentions the scandal. What else do they want? Do they want the entire thing to say, "Kate is a huge b*tch. Once, she took cupcakes away from her kids on their birthday. And another time, she beat up angelic Aunt Jodi for giving her kids gum."

So, of course, I went to the pretend blog and read the comments (and by "pretend," do they mean that the blog doesn't really exist? Because I went there, and I tell you that, gasp, I saw words and sentences). Someone here said the comments are pollyanna. Yeah, I tend to agree. I don't understand the two extreme "camps." There are the haters, and there are those who say things like, "I love you, Kate! You are my hero!" and who think she truly is some kind of model mother. I think both are a bit "off" and neither seem to have a true perspective on the fact that this is a television show about people we don't really know. I personally don't care how Kate seems to be thriving in the limelight right now while claiming otherwise, but that's just my opinion based on nothing other than gossip mags. I must say though, I'm from PA (sort of near where the Gs live but haven't been back in years) and I love Kate's look (complete with frosted spiky hair and a tan that's overdone) because that's exactly how that part of PA interprets Hollywood, at least in my opinion. Where else would Ann Taylor Loft be considered couture and snobby?

That being said, I can't even imagine the ratings on Monday night. People like my mom, who didn't know Kate Gosselin from Kat Stevens, are talking about it.

Fanny said...

I really wish Kevin and Jodi would just stop talking. They sound like a couple of gossip queens. Yes, Beth wrote the book. So what? It happens all the time with celebrities because having a fascinating life doesn't necessarily make you a writer. To me it sounds like they are grasping at straws, saying ANYTHING to fuel this already out of control fire. This is just stupid and I'm starting to understand why they aren't part of the Gosselins lives anymore.

indianprincess said...

Here is the new 30 sec video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJXN4WPSm3I

Trish said...

Ok, I watched the newest video...Kevin and Jodi continue to look worse and worse and worse.
The more they say, the more apparent it becomes to me that they are vindictive.

Whether or not the things they are saying are true(and I do believe there may be some truth to what they are saying)...they aren't doing this for the sake of the family or children. They sound bitter and jealous, imo.

As far as Beth writing the book...no new news there. But as to the weekends when she and Kate went away and Kate sleeping or talking on the phone...unless she was on the phone with one of them the whole time, they don't really know jack about what she did. I have a hard time seeing Beth gossiping with those two...it certainly is possible but I just don't see it.

Trish said...

indianprincess-thanks for the link.

Wow, they look really uncomfortable. I hope they can resolve this...not looking too good.

Illinois Mom said...

I so agree, Jodi and Kevin are just awful! What is the point?

I don't think we will here from Beth and I will tell you why.

I believe she loves the kids so much, she doesn't give a squat about kudos for her writing the book. She did that with Kate's and the kid's best interests in mind and I think it was out of true friendship.

I truly think they are no longer friends because of some of the things that Jodi and Kevin are refering to.

themrs said...

thank you jimmy fallon, you just made my day.

themrs said...

oh yeah, how can TLC say that Jon and Kate face each other for the first time? we just saw them last weekend together at the birthday party?

Jacelynn said...

At this point I really don't even care what anybody (Jon, Kate, relatives, etc.) has to say on/about the Gosselins. This is hard enough on the kids and I think Jon and Kate and family are making it worse.

CincyMom said...

TheMrs--I think the facing eachother for the first time thing might mean the taping they did. The bday party happened this past weekend, but they apparently taped the premiere stuff earlier so it was the "first time" they discussed stuff or something. The show will be aired late May, but was taped before the party...or whatever.

I am appalled they would use their show as a platform to discuss their marriage. It makes my skin crawl to think I have to wait to speak to my spouse to try to work on our relationship until a camera is around to document it. And if that is not true, well then the whole deep-voiced promo is wrong (which it has been before).

I am so annoyed at TLC taking advantage of this family.

I TOTALLY think the Gosselin family is the first stop at stopping the reality show. But the network should also share some of this once the family decides to go forward.

Kind of like, we know that person has a gun and is going to kill themselves. Hey, let's videotape it and shop it around for sales...

Also, the show was always about whitewashed family activities and they chose to ignore the popularity and celebrity factor. Now they are incorporating that stuff and I can't see how that could be family friendly for the kids that watch.

What do you all think?

Kuromi said...

Didn't Beth get a big feature story in the local/regional newspaper? I remember pictures of her next to paintings of giant chairs that she did. Point is, Beth has long been acknowledged as the writer of the book--not just in the news, but also on the freakin' book jacket.

Illinois Mom said...

LOL, no kidding? Just hype! I don't buy it. I do bet they will have record numbers tuning in!

Cincy Mom said:
I am so annoyed at TLC taking advantage of this family.

Cincy-I don't think TLC is taking advantage of them anymore or less than before. This is Jon and Kate's gig, the good, the bad and the ugly. If anyone is taking advantage it is Jon and Kate of their kids.

I don't know what their contract states, but I venture to guess that if one or both parent's stated the show was causing harm to the kids then they could somehow bail out-don't you?

Remember Kate is loving all of this. She is the happy one. Maybe the only one.

Rachel107 said...

Beth being the author of "Multiple Blessings" is not news to those of us "in the know" but it is a big bombshell to the casual fan/viewer, especially because Kate still markets herself as the sole author of the book. Just recently on the Today show she said something like, "I wrote Multiple Blessings so my kids know how much I've always loved them." I remember because I wanted to throw my shoe at the TV when she said it. Forgive me, I just think it is wrong to not acknowledge someone's contribution to your success, especially something as major as co-writing (or completely writing) your best-selling book. Beth has been more gracious than I ever would be, and I admit it. If I worked that hard and that long on something and someone else took complete credit for it, I would lose my ever-loving mind.

Rachel107 said...

The interview with Beth was in the Reading Eagle, which is the Berks County paper.

Saint said...

CincyMom,
I love your post. Great points. I've always been uncomfortable with the "good, bad, and ugly" factor in this show. I just thought there were too many private moments, meltdowns, characters flaws of the kids' on display. In the last season I thought they tried hard to downplay that: trips instead of 'at home' time, filming the photo shoot which they had to do anyway, creating scenarios like "Twins Play Mommy." I got the feeling they were trying to separate their private lives (somewhat) from this show, and I respected them for doing that. I don't think we should see the tups at school for real, so the "first day" episode, when the tups were the only kids there (clearly staged to some extent,) was fine with me.

But lots of fans missed the 'at home' stuff and non-fans called them liars for staging/scripting some things. People resented the ski trip, the Hawaii vacation, the private tour of Legoland. Not me. I figured if these kids have to be on TV, good for them for getting some neat stuff out of it. The kids looked genuinely happy at that aquarium. Who could resent that they went? A lot of people did.

I don't think it was accidental that this last season was different. I think their parents were trying to milk this cash cow as much as possible, get fun things thrown in, while trying reduce the real family time they had to display for us. I don't think they got it right, but I thought they got it better.

So the idea that they may be giving up on the fun and contrived and going back to the good, bad, and ugly, just when it's getting really ugly doesn't make me happy. Private matters are called private for a reason.

themrs said...

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090521/OPINION03/905210449/1031

this is an article written by one of the organizers of the detroit women's conference Kate recently spoke at. i found it very interesting.

Linda said...

I saw the latest video from Jodi & Kevin and I guess that I think that all of this insider information is stuff we all knew all along.

J & K have helpers? No big news. They interviewed helpers on their episodes.

J&K have a dysfunctional marriage? No big news. They argue in their episodes.

J&K didn't write the book Multiple Blessings? No big news. They book says the name of the co-writer on the book jacket.

Anya said...

Rachel107 said...Beth being the author of "Multiple Blessings" is not news to those of us "in the know" but it is a big bombshell to the casual fan/viewer, especially because Kate still markets herself as the sole author of the book. Just recently on the Today show she said something like, "I wrote Multiple Blessings so my kids know how much I've always loved them." I remember because I wanted to throw my shoe at the TV when she said it.

I tend to agree, because it just gives unnecessary fodder to the critics and Beth does deserve credit for writing the book. Either the hosts should be instructed to say Beth's name when interviewing Kate or Kate should make a brief mention. It is just the classy thing to do IMO.

Kuromi said...

Rachel, thanks for identifying the newspaper. If they're owned by a big news chain (Tribune Company, Gannett, etc.) it was likely printed in other papers in the chain. Each paper makes its own choice but if they think the show's popular in their town they'd likely run it. That's one reason why I don't think it's a "bombshell" that Beth wrote the book.

Another reason I don't think it's a "bombshell," as I said before, is that Beth's name is on the cover, just as big (as far as I recall) as Kate's was. So I really doubt anyone reading the book would miss that.

Third, as everyone else here said, it is a given that a famous person's book/biography is actually "written" by a professional. The only exceptions are if they subject also happens to be a writer by trade. You see ads for ghostwriters all the time on Craigslist.

The only reason why the argument continues, I think, is that extremists have such a low opinion of those who don't agree with them--i.e. people who actually like Kate, or are at least willing to concede she's not the devil incarnate--that they wouldn't be able to read Beth's name on the cover themselves and comprehend something that's obvious. It's not defending "those poor fans" at all.

Fanny said...

Wow. I just read the article posted my "themrs"(thanks!) and it was....not good. I can understand that maybe this person felt these things needed to be said, but I guess when I see things like this in a public forum, be it from a parenting coach or a child advocate, it makes me feel a little uneasy. I think if you truly want to help someone it's best done in private. It appears(to me anyway),to be less about Kate and more about a public that is hungry for gossip.

Kuromi said...

Fanny, I agree with you. I only got through the first 1/3 or so of that column. Why is this woman dissing Kate, when Kate actually DIDN'T cancel on her organization? I'd think she'd be glad that Kate fulfilled her obligations so that she didn't have to find a last-minute replacement, or have to refund people's tickets.

Maybe--unlike that poor Pastor Craig--she's bowing down to angry messages from trolls chastising her for her role in "exploitation." If so, she's certainly not someone I would ever seek professional (or even common-sense) advice from.

Anya said...

I agree with Kuromi and Fanny. I mentioned "class" in my post on another subject above. This lady seems to lack it.

-She is a representative of an organization that hired Kate for an event. Because Kate wasn't "warm and fuzzy" enough (huge surprise) she thinks it is a-ok to knock Kate with a snide, patronizing piece? Sorry, I don't think so.

-News flash: Kate won't be reading your "open letter", so if it was something you absolutely felt you had to get off your chest, mail Kate a letter. Of course, private correspondence wouldn't allow Alyssa Martina, Parent Coach (strange title), the opportunity to publicize her services.

-Don't you just love the way she claims how happy they were to have Kate come, but then gets a dig in about Kate being away from her family?

Like I said, not a lot of class, IMO.

Guinevere said...

Another reason I don't think it's a "bombshell," as I said before, is that Beth's name is on the cover, just as big (as far as I recall) as Kate's was. So I really doubt anyone reading the book would miss that.Well, exactly. It baffles me that some people treat Beth's authorship as some sort of secret inside scoop, when her name is right on the cover with Kate's.

I think Beth's involvement was downplayed on the book tour and I don't know what that was about. But I don't think it makes sense to say that Kate claimed sole credit for writing the book when Beth is credited as an author.

Fifi from Illinois said...

Hi everyone,

First time poster but I have read here for awhile.

I just recently moved to Illinois from Salt Lake City, Utah. I use to work at the University there. In the process of looking for a new job and possibly a whole new identity. Time for a change.

Anyway, I use to be a big fan of the show but not so much anymore.I am still reading everything available and trying to figure things out.

I do have a comment about Beth.
Beth made a lot of money writing Kate's story. Kate owes her nothing at this point except a, "You're welcome."

LoriNJ1970 said...

We're not talking about some random stranger that the publisher picked out. This was and maybe still is for all I know a close personal friend that co-wrote the book with Kate. It just seems off that when she has been interviewed and gets all the credit for writing the book she hasn't mentioned Beth.

Saint said...

Don't you just love the way she claims how happy they were to have Kate come, but then gets a dig in about Kate being away from her family? Very good point, Anya. It's as if she's complaining that Kate fulfilled an obligation to this organization. But the Gosselins cancelled on another women, Jessica, the reporter for Philly Mag quoted that other woman, and guess what the non-fan position was? Uh-huh. Kate shouldn't have cancelled.

Saint said...

I do have a comment about Beth.
Beth made a lot of money writing Kate's story. Kate owes her nothing at this point except a, "You're welcome."
Great point Fifi. Also, if you read the article with Beth, she wasn't the one who was complaining. Maybe she really is grateful (and gracious) and this is all a tempest in a teapot.

Momof2 said...

I feel that when you pay someone (hire them) for an event there is a certain level of professionalism that is expected. Showing up and speaking but having a bad attitude doesn't qualify IMHO. Of course you want someone to be gracious and kind...Good Lord 800 people showed up to hear Kate speak and I'm sure she got paid well...why not be NICE?

When you go out to a restaurant...you can order the finest lobster the restaurant has...but if you get lousy service..that takes away from your experience, right? Is it right to say the restaurant fulfilled their obligation by delivering the lobster to the table...?

Saint said...

I think that is a great point, Momof2.

What do you think of her organization inviting Kate to speak to those 800 people, and Kate doing so, then writing that she shouldn't have gone because of what is happening in her home?

IMO that's ALSO unprofessional.

It's like the restaurant owner coming out to say to the people around you that you shouldn't be spending your money on lobster when you could be saving it for your child's college education. KWIM?

merryway said...

How many of these video parts are there? Jodie sounds like she's chanting GWOP. She seems happy to be telling tales, must be a perk since she her main concern is for the children.

I have not been reading a lot at GWOP, but I have to thank the princesses (again) for pointing out the ridiculous and giving me a laugh.

Momof2 said...

What do you think of her organization inviting Kate to speak to those 800 people, and Kate doing so, then writing that she shouldn't have gone because of what is happening in her home?

IMO that's ALSO unprofessional.
...........

I also agree. I feel that particular criticism was uncalled for...I feel she should have said "If your current situation is the reason for your bad mood...we would have preferred to reschedule so we could enjoy your usual friendly and outgoing personality without the stresses of what is going on at home"...or something to that effect.

Momof2 said...

ACTUALLY, she should have just called her at home...LOL

bigsis88 said...

I agree with the OP that dealing with marriage issues on camera is tacky. Part of what rubs me the wrong way about it is that film can be so permanent. I doubt this would happen, but if J or K were to say "I want a divorce" on camera, it would always be available for people to watch, and rewatch, and analyze (see the reactions to last night's American Idol finale). Things said in private can be reworded or even denied, but videotape has so much more authenticity and can be used to crucify people later on.

CincyMom, I see what you mean about the show moving to a "meta" level, instead of just existing in TV land, and Saint I agree that the episodes you mentioned did a better job of separating the G's home life from the show. I don't have any profound reason for why I stopped watching the show (guess the child exploitation didn't faze me ;-)), but the "ugly" moments were never really fun to watch, and I think they opened the G's (referring to all 10) up to a lot of criticism. I think people see negative and positive comments as more valid when they are about "real" people doing "real" things as opposed to actors doing scripted things. I'm not going to get into the editing thing right now, but it's easier for people to make judgments when they feel they have "evidence" concerning a situation, so people feel their criticism of J&K is justified because their "good, bad and ugly" is on tape.

Guinevere said...

I feel that when you pay someone (hire them) for an event there is a certain level of professionalism that is expected. Showing up and speaking but having a bad attitude doesn't qualify IMHO. Of course you want someone to be gracious and kind...Good Lord 800 people showed up to hear Kate speak and I'm sure she got paid well...why not be NICE?
I can't seem to access the article anymore, but I don't recall Ms. Parenting Coach or whatever it is she is saying that Kate had a bad attitude. Just that she wasn't "warm" or "friendly". It sounds like she *was* professional, all business, and that's what the woman resented.

I don't know, I took it less as a criticism of Kate's professionalism and more as a criticism of Kate for not fitting the traditional descriptors we as a society see as befitting women, and especially mothers. She wasn't "nice", she wasn't "warm". From there, it's an easy leap that many people make (and I believe this accusation was included in the article) to assume that she is stuck up or thinks she's better than everyone else.

You know, there are plenty of celebrities out there who are well known for not being the nicest people. Jeremy Piven comes to mind; also Christian Bale. How about Russell Crowe? And people do talk about their assiness, but there aren't whole blogs devoted to picking apart each instance of it, harrassing them for it, etc. Yeah, yeah, I know - child exploitation. But then if it's *that*, I go back to the Duggars, the Roloffs, etc. - all of the other "child exploiters" who aren't nearly so hated. Which leaves me back at square one, thinking that a lot of the hostility is directed at Kate simply because she is a woman, and the words "nice", "warm" and "friendly" can't be easily applied to her. And I think that sucks.

texasmommy said...

merryway said...
How many of these video parts are there? Jodie sounds like she's chanting GWOP. She seems happy to be telling tales, must be a perk since she her main concern is for the children.
-----------------------------------
Merryway, I totally agree with you! IMO Kevin and Jodi made their intentions crystal clear with their latest "installment" of gossip. I think that they have probably been disgruntled for some time and are now pleased that they have been able to get their ridiculous "15 minutes in the spotlight."

I am so glad that the news outlets don't seem to be giving their "recordings" quite as much air time as I'm sure their supporters would have hoped for.

It just seems to me that each and every interview they churn out will drive them further and further away from ALL of the Gosselins ~ including the kids when they are older. How on earth could they think that what they are doing would benefit those children or the situation in any way???

Florida Mom said...

Anya,
That picture you posted of Kate with the kids was pure TLC damage control. Notice the way she is sitting beside two "icky" boys. (kidding of course).
I kind of understand Kate's view that there is no going back, but this whole thing is so sad. When Kate talks about that they only have a few friends (ie, the body guard). As Jon said, "It's a crazy life, but it's our life". True, but so much is self inflicted.
I can't help but make the comparison(I know it has been made before), to the Dilley(sp) sextuplets. We saw yearly updates. They had to move to a different house to make ends meet. The mom and dad had each taken the role of breadwinner at different times. I know people think the mom is more likeable because she is a little heavier and less glamorous than Kate, but I found her charming because she seems truly happy. She never sang the "nobody knows the troubles I've seen" song. She just seemed so happy with her life. I don't think they will be able to provide their children with the material things the Gosselins will, but they seem ok with that.
I understand the Gosselins making the choice they did in their time of need and I have enjoyed watching their beautiful family. I just wish that the end result had made them happier. Maybe it has, and they are hiding it really well. Maybe the train wreck would have occurred without the cameras and without the money.
Maybe when the tree falls in the forest and no one is around--it doesn't make a sound. We'll never know.
My I'm waxing philosophical this early in the morning :)

Illinois Mom said...

But then if it's *that*, I go back to the Duggars, the Roloffs, etc. - all of the other "child exploiters" who aren't nearly so hated. Which leaves me back at square one, thinking that a lot of the hostility is directed at Kate simply because she is a woman, and the words "nice", "warm" and "friendly" can't be easily applied to her. And I think that sucks.

May 21, 2009 11:34 PM

Why does that suck? Do people normally gravitate towards individuals who are not warm, nice and friendly? That makes no sense to me. Just because she is a woman we should stand behind her?

I think some people seen genuine kindness and good heartedness in Amy and Michelle. I think people have seen on a regular bases these 2 women put their own needs behind their kids needs. I think we see 2 pretty stable people who don't freak out, melt down, cry woe is me. You are right though, if you believe the Gosselin kids are expolited you might think the same about the other 2 families. For me it is a personal and thought out choice as to why I don't care for Kate. You know, I don't LOVE Amy or Michelle either, but the bottome line for me is I think they are genuine. I think they are kind. And I think they walk their talk.

Kate is in a category all her own. Kate could be a man and she would have just as much hostilty directed towards her. She is responsible for her own behavior, and if many, many people choose to not "like" her, that is those folks right to decide.

Guinevere said...

Why does that suck? Do people normally gravitate towards individuals who are not warm, nice and friendly? That makes no sense to me. Just because she is a woman we should stand behind her?No, but we should not castigate her for not fitting the mold of the ideal woman. I have no problem with the idea of Kate getting less speaking gigs, for instance, because she's not warm and friendly. To me, that would be somewhat comparable to an actor not getting roles because he wasn't a very good actor.

I have a problem with people ripping her 24/7, calling her a monster, comparing her to murderers, lying about her and despising her because she's not warm and friendly. I have a problem with the woman who wrote the "open letter" to Kate taking her to task simply for not being warm and friendly. I do not believe that she or most people would do so with a male speaker. Sure, she might like a male speaker who is warm and friendly better - that's natural - but she would likely not judge a male speaker who wasn't as harshly, because those qualities are not seen as essential in men as they are in women.

I think some people seen genuine kindness and good heartedness in Amy and Michelle. I think people have seen on a regular bases these 2 women put their own needs behind their kids needs. I think we see 2 pretty stable people who don't freak out, melt down, cry woe is me.I like Michelle; I haven't really watched Amy Duggar's show, though I understand that she can be hard on her husband. Neither of these women are perfect. They just have different flaws than Kate does. I don't have an issue with people disliking Kate; I only have an issue with the lengths to which they take that dislike.

Kate could be a man and she would have just as much hostilty directed towards her. She is responsible for her own behavior, and if many, many people choose to not "like" her, that is those folks right to decide.I disagree with your first point. Again, I don't see all the websites where posters obsessively pick apart everything Russell Crowe does and compare him to OJ Simpson. His public behavior has been far worse than Kate, just in the few instances I'm aware of. People dislike him, but they aren't out to get him the way these women are out to get Kate.

I have no problem with the rest of your statement; we are ALL responsible for our own behavior, and people are free to dislike Kate, of course.

Fanny said...

Kate is in a category all her own. Kate could be a man and she would have just as much hostilty directed towards her.I disagree. There does seem to be this expectation of mothers to be a certain way and people are put off because Kate doesn't fit that mold. She was ridiculed long before the book tours and long hours away from home when she was with her kids a lot more just because she wasn't the stereotypical mom. She was loud, bossy, and completely anal. She was, in some ways, the exact opposite of everything our culture tells us a mother should be. ON TV. The fact is that those traits were magnified and I think that if TLC wanted a different type of show, they could have edited differently and gotten just that.

themrs said...

Guin- i have to respectfully disagree with a few of your statements. i don't think the detroit author castigated her for not fitting the "ideal woman" model. she was unhappy with kate's treatment of the organizers and the fans that made it possible. that's a valid complaint. she felt kate was not gracious at all. why is it that when a fan comes out and reports a glowing report of a speaking engagement, the response it "see, she's not as bad as everyone tries to say she is." but when an event organizer comes forth and says they had an unpleasant experience with her, they are torn apart?
as far as people "ripping her 24/7, calling her a monster, comparing her to murderers, lying about her and despising her because she's not warm and friendly." i don't see that over here. that may happen at other sites, if so you should take that up with them. that has nothing to do with us. i've never seen those types of hyperbolic comparisons here.

as far as the comparison to russel crowe, i think that's comparing apples to oranges. russel crowe's career is movies. that's what he's selling. him being an ass in person doesn't have much to do with that. kate's career is selling an image of a family. WHO she is (and jon and the kids) IS her business. she's on a reality show so her personality is part of the package. i agree that the hatred and desire to "take her down" is absurd and really a sad commentary on the lives of those attempting to do it. unfortunately, they've given a bad name to those that really are concerned about rights for children in reality tv. i'd like to see those rights extended to kids on any show, not just J&K. i don't want to see them go down in flames. i don't want to see their marriage disintegrate. i do think that this situation is showing that the show is no longer in the best interest of their family. i wish they agreed with me.

stayinganon said...

themrs,

I have to say that it bothers me that you always generalize when you point fingers. You address Guin initially, but you move on to once again insinuate that everyone is thinking or saying the same thing here. That just is not true.

Please, when you are complaining about someone doing something inappropriate or something you feel is not right, address that person.

CaliMommy said...

I am no fan of Russell Crowe as a person but I do admire his acting. I have seen him in person and on TMZ-type shows before and the one thing that sticks out in my mind is how strong his desire is to shield his kids from cameras. Quite the opposite from the Gosselin mere and pere.

themrs said...

stayinanon- i apologize if my generalizing is offensive to you. as far as my last post, those responses were what i felt were the majority. i don't have time to go back into the archives to look up specific statements or feeling by specific posters. i'm sorry if that bothers you.

CaliMommy said...

themrs: I do not agree with stayinganon singling you out because everyone seems to do it. Maybe what we need to do is leave the "name" out but just highlight that person's comments when responding. This way it won't seem too personal.But I do think it strange that someone wouled take anything too personal on a comment board started specifically to discuss and receive anonymous comments? Interesting that you choose to remain anonymous when most of us don't.

Anya said...

TheMrs. said...as far as people "ripping her 24/7, calling her a monster, comparing her to murderers, lying about her and despising her because she's not warm and friendly." i don't see that over here. that may happen at other sites, if so you should take that up with them. that has nothing to do with us. i've never seen those types of hyperbolic comparisons here.

I agree that doesn't happen here, but we would less than honest to not acknowledge that this type of hatred takes up a majority of the Gosselin blogosphere. And as annoyed as it makes our critics, I think this site will continue to discuss what is happening "out there." That's what Guin was doing.

I do agree with Guin's basic premise on the differences in how men are treated vs. women, but I also agree with your assertion that it is somewhat "apples to oranges." The connection we feel to reality TV "stars" (I feel weird using that phrase), is entirely different from what we feel with other celebrities. Add to that the fact that the G's show has been on almost constantly for a while (I have been following for a year, but I know others have longer). I think it is easy to begin to feel we really "know" the Gosselins and have "a stake" in their family. I don't know if I entirely agree with that premise, but I understand it....

themrs said...

anya- you're right as far as our "connection" to reality tv stars. i'm not sure why that is, or even if its right to feel that way, but it definitely seems to be the case. i know i've said this before but i'll say it again- sometimes i have to take a mental step back and ask myself why i even care so much about people i don't know?

Anya said...

TheMrs.

I completely agree! :-)

Stayinganon said...

CaliMommy

Stayinganon is my screen name.I have used it other places besides this blog. Is your real name CaliMommy?

Tired said...

Kate is in a category all her own. Kate could be a man and she would have just as much hostilty directed towards her.I interpreted Illinois Mom as comparing the type of behavior, not the extremity of the behavior. For example Joe Jackson, Joe Simpson, Matt Knowles....and other supposedly controlling stage dads. I see articles all the time about their "diva-like" behaviour. You read stories about their iron gripped control of their offspring's career/life choices whilst making a living off of them at the same time. Some even try upstage their kids, I guess believing they are just as good looking or talented as their offspring. The only difference is that these men did not have a reality show filming them 3 times a week while their stars were young. My feelings towards Kate are similar to how I feel about those men and their ilk. IMO they all have the same basic traits. Cold, off-putting, snooty, controlling, narcisissistic and can be cruel at times.

No, but we should not castigate her for not fitting the mold of the ideal woman.Why, what's wrong with being the ideal woman? No one person will ever attain it but we can always aim higher, right? Being warm hearted, gracious, caring, and nurturing towards your family and others? Doesn't human nature dictate that we look to these sort of people as role models, leaders, and heroes? I'm sure Kate didn't set out to do her show to let everyone know what a bitch she was. She probably wanted to be a role model. She puts out books and cookbooks and speaks around the country selling her lifestyle. It seems somewhere along the way, her message got lost.

Illinois Mom said...

The Mrs,
Excellant post, you said it better than I could have. Thanks. I too feel that she makes statements that are aimed at other sites but brings them here to try and back up her point.
Anya, I guess I don't think the majority of Gosselin bloggers are die hard haters that want to see kate murder Jon or other such extremes.
You know, I don't fit the mold of an ideal woman to many. What is that anyway? Is there a mold? Today in 2009 I see all different kinds of women parenting differently. It isn't about that. It is about Kate as a person.
As far as the letter goes, maybe it should be reread by some.

Guinevere said...

i don't think the detroit author castigated her for not fitting the "ideal woman" model. she was unhappy with kate's treatment of the organizers and the fans that made it possible. that's a valid complaint.But did she give any examples? She has a right to feel what she feels but it seems unfair to put it out there on the internet and not even specify what she's talking about.

If the "treatment" that Kate gave the organizers involved giving x rude answer to y question, then she should have said so, and at least people could judge for themselves (as much as you can without being there) whether it was rude. To say that she was cold was a value judgment on Kate's entire personality, which she only has so much control over (you can control how you act, but being "warm" comes naturally to some people more than others).

why is it that when a fan comes out and reports a glowing report of a speaking engagement, the response it "see, she's not as bad as everyone tries to say she is." but when an event organizer comes forth and says they had an unpleasant experience with her, they are torn apart?Positive examples are given to counteract the prevailing image of Kate as the Worst Person in the World. I didn't pretend that Kate was friendlier than she was when I went to her booksigning. She was as I expected her to be - pleasant yet businesslike. And that was fine with me. No one has torn the organizer apart. I don't quite believe that she doesn't have an agenda, but whatever; I haven't called CPS on her.

as far as people "ripping her 24/7, calling her a monster, comparing her to murderers, lying about her and despising her because she's not warm and friendly." i don't see that over here. that may happen at other sites, if so you should take that up with them. that has nothing to do with us. i've never seen those types of hyperbolic comparisons here.Yeah, because we don't publish them. I can't "take it up with them" on one of the best known sites for these hyperbolic statements, because my post will not be published. But thanks for the advice (?) on how we should run our blog here.

as far as the comparison to russel crowe, i think that's comparing apples to oranges. russel crowe's career is movies. that's what he's selling. him being an ass in person doesn't have much to do with that. kate's career is selling an image of a family. WHO she is (and jon and the kids) IS her business. she's on a reality show so her personality is part of the package.Yes, and it seems like the success of the show has had something to do with her personality. I disagree about Russell Crowe - I think likability is a factor in movie stardom, and I think that the requirements for women are generally more narrow in that regard in show business as well.

I am no fan of Russell Crowe as a person but I do admire his acting. I have seen him in person and on TMZ-type shows before and the one thing that sticks out in my mind is how strong his desire is to shield his kids from cameras. Quite the opposite from the Gosselin mere and pere.Okay, what about Michael Lohan? He is generally disliked but I don't believe there are a bunch of women on the internet who spend hours a day trashing him. He's a jerk and a bad father but people don't seem to take it as personally (certainly Dina Lohan gets more grief, even if she is perhaps by default the better parent).

But I do think it strange that someone wouled take anything too personal on a comment board started specifically to discuss and receive anonymous comments? Interesting that you choose to remain anonymous when most of us don't.As for "stayinganon", I don't see it as different from any of the other aliases people use. Stayinganon says that's her screenname - it's not like she's using that screenname here and then another elsewhere to talk smack about the people here.

Guinevere said...

Why, what's wrong with being the ideal woman? No one person will ever attain it but we can always aim higher, right? Being warm hearted, gracious, caring, and nurturing towards your family and others? Of course. I just find it ridiculous that so many people are so concerned with how Kate Gosselin fits that ideal and not at all concerned with the ways in which they themselves are falling short.

Saint said...

why is it that when a fan comes out and reports a glowing report of a speaking engagement, the response it "see, she's not as bad as everyone tries to say she is." but when an event organizer comes forth and says they had an unpleasant experience with her, they are torn apart?I also found this comment offensive and here's why. On this thread only a few posters, including me, criticized the woman's article. I don't care to have my post described by anyone as having "torn apart" someone.

as far as people "ripping her 24/7, calling her a monster, comparing her to murderers, lying about her and despising her because she's not warm and friendly." i don't see that over here. that may happen at other sites, if so you should take that up with them.That's good advice. If you have a problem with someone, take it up with her directly. I have a problem with the way you sometimes characterize the remarks of those of us who disagree with you, themrs. Normally, I skip through the remarks that bother me. I almost posted a response to this, then noticed another beat me to it. But this advice of yours to Guin is an invitation for me to speak up for myself against how you characterized our comments.


i don't have time to go back into the archives to look up specific statements or feeling by specific posters. i'm sorry if that bothers you.
You don't have to go into the archives to find your evidence for posters "tearing apart" this woman. Who tore her apart? She was criticized. That's it. No one used foul language, accused her of immoral or illegal activities, started a campaign to leave nasty comments at the end of her article, or emailed her. The link was just posted yesterday. Besides, if you have a problem, please stop generalizing all of our remarks and take it up with the person you disagree with, as you just told Guin to do.

Tired said...

Of course. I just find it ridiculous that so many people are so concerned with how Kate Gosselin fits that ideal and not at all concerned with the ways in which they themselves are falling short.
I find it ridiculous that so many people are so concerned that Kate should not be judged for her actions, eventhough she chose to put her life on television for millions to observe.

Besides, the subject matter on this blog pertains to the Gosselins, yes? So I would assume that people will be giving their opinions on the Gosselins in a sane and reasonable manner. Not talking about their own shortcomings unless there is an open discussion?

Guinevere said...

I find it ridiculous that so many people are so concerned that Kate should not be judged for her actions, eventhough she chose to put her life on television for millions to observe. I don't know that so many people are so concerned that Kate should not be judged for her actions. I think some people, to varying degrees, are disturbed by the vitriol and level of hatred expressed towards Kate.

I have always said, I would not even be involved in this if it were just people judging/criticizing/not liking Kate. It's the level that these people take it to that makes it worthy of discussion, IMO.

Besides, the subject matter on this blog pertains to the Gosselins, yes? So I would assume that people will be giving their opinions on the Gosselins in a sane and reasonable manner. Not talking about their own shortcomings unless there is an open discussion?The subject is the Gosselins, the show and issues surrounding the show. Some people give their opinoins in a sane and reasonable manner and others don't. We try to moderate comments to weed out the more hysterical ones, but we don't like censoring people, and often it's the case that a poster will essentially escalate the level of hostility in their comments until we have no choice but to reject them.

I don't necessarily expect people to volunteer information on their own shortcomings, but for me part of the discussion IS how relentlessly critical these women are of a total stranger. Comments about how she doesn't love her kids, how she's not a "real" Christian - for some of us they bring to mind the hypocrisy of the person making the comments. It's hard to avoid when someone is incredibly nasty in stating the opinion that Kate is not nice.

Some of the people who I've seen be most critical are the same ones that are known for trolling unmoderated boards and making filthy and outrageous claims about J&K. Then they come back here and talk about being good Christians and how hard all of this negative publicity must be on the kids.

Fanny said...

I find it ridiculous that so many people are so concerned that Kate should not be judged for her actions, eventhough she chose to put her life on television for millions to observe.I think it's the difference between her being judged and being judged fairly. I don't expect people to list their shortcomings, I do think, however, that they should at least consider them when judging someone else, especially as harshly as some judge Kate.

Guinevere said...

You know, I don't fit the mold of an ideal woman to many. What is that anyway? Is there a mold? Today in 2009 I see all different kinds of women parenting differently. It isn't about that. It is about Kate as a person.Wait, I thought it was about the kids?

We are all flawed in different ways. For instance, as I mentioned in my previous post, Illinois Mom, there are women who I have observed doing really ugly things in their quest to "get" Kate Gosselin. A poster posting over and over on an unmoderated board, claiming to have had an affair with Jon Gosselin and being very crude and ugly, then coming here and under another name saying that Kate is not a real Christian because of how she acts. I find such hypocrisy shocking, as I'm sure you must.

You and others may feel that we should *only* focus on Kate Gosselin's behavior, but I find it impossible to ignore the fact that much of her heaviest criticism comes from people whose own behavior is anything but above reproach.

As far as the letter goes, maybe it should be reread by some.I didn't repost the excerpt you sent in because I don't honestly know whether doing so violates copyright laws. I don't think I've characterized any of it inaccurately, but as I've said it doesn't seem to be up on the web anymore.

jace said...

Guin and Fanny,

I absolutely agree.

I don't think that anyone who attacks another so hatefully and judges them so harshly has any room to complain about them not being a nice person or a good Christian. Some people need a mirror.

I have often wondered how people expect to have their remarks taken seriously when they attack so viciously.

themrs said...

Guin said "but for me part of the discussion IS how relentlessly critical these women are of a total stranger. Comments about how she doesn't love her kids, how she's not a "real" Christian - for some of us they bring to mind the hypocrisy of the person making the comments. It's hard to avoid when someone is incredibly nasty in stating the opinion that Kate is not nice."

i know we may not always see eye to eye but i completely agree with you on this statement. this level of hatred i just don't understand. if there is one thing i hope i never do, it's judge another's christianity. i know it's human nature to do so, but it is hyprocrisy. i can't understand what would possess someone to go around saying they had an affair with another woman's husband, even if they hate that woman. that's about as low as it gets.

Dr. H said...

Oh, pick me, I know why having a standard of the 'ideal woman' is bad!

Let's see: Because it is a patriarchal standard designed to keep women in nice little boxes preventing them form doing such unladylike things like showing negative emotions, being powerful and owning their own lives. When a woman, ANY woman, is subjected to standards that the bears admit are impossible to reach, all women are hurt because you will be next. When women are subjected to these standards, they are told that they aren't good enough, kind enough, smart enough, too motivated, too driven, too emotional. It's a perfect way of keeping women where they have always been. When a woman shows a new side, one that isn't up to the standards (that were set in a man's world, by men) she is shunned, mocked and derided. How is that good for any woman?

www.shakespearessister.com

I am a feminist.

Guinevere said...

Dr. H, I think I love you.

jace said...

It's bizarre to me that it's us women doing this to each other. Women just rip other women apart about their looks, their parenting whatever. It is very disheartening that we can't find some compassion for each other. All of us are imperfect in one way or the other.

Anya said...

Ok, I love Jace then! :-)

Jace, by the way, would you mind emailing me at kittyb68@gmail.com when you have a moment? Got a quick question for you. Thanks.

jace said...

Anya,

Done.

And I love you too. :)


jace

Dr. H said...

Thanks Guin. I cannot tell you how much hearing '_____ woman should be more ________' pisses me off. I am a woman and on any given day, I yell, laugh, cry, giggle, whisper, stare, point, tease, exclaim, get serious, get silly, roll my eyes, dance, sing, smile, frown. And no one gets to tell me any of that is okay or isn't okay just because I am a woman. End of story. And as a feminist, I will defend ANY woman in that position,because that is the point.

Guinevere said...

I agree, Dr. H. It's not that I don't get that some of the criticism of Kate is valid and not gender-based. But a lot of it seems to start with Kate not being maternal in the way that the poster thinks she should be (and in half-watching the marathon today, I felt vindicated to find many moments of Kate being loving with her kids) or with her being dominant with Jon.


I'm just sick of women tearing other women down. It's not just Kate Gosselin; I stumbled across this post about Elisabeth Hasselback (on TWOP by way of Bitter But Brilliant):

Even without her politics, Bitsy is a sad creature. She's got two beautiful kids and is expecting her third but there's never that preggo glow, that gushing Mommyspeak about what her child did that thrilled her so much she's going to brag on lil peewee even if it bores everyone else to tears. Most pregnant women--even the most hardened, ambitious career warriors--usually seem to add a bit of softness, wonder at the new life, worry that the baby may have health issues; have that miraculous pregnancy dimension. Not Bits. Where's her joy? Where's her wonder? Where's her worry? Everything is politics, reality TV and twitter. To me it makes her seem very removed and totally unrelatable. Take a minute from chirping Pelosi-Obama to talk about feeling the baby kick. Stop waving the GOP banner and pick up your kids. These years will zip by but stupid, ugly politics is forever. Now, my feelings about Elisabeth Hasselback are as follows: I loved her on "Survivor", but I don't agree with her politics. I don't watch "The View", so I'm not clear how much of a twit she comes off as, though my understanding is that she does, in fact, come off as a bit of a twit. But I'm not aware of her being anything more offensive than (possibly) a twit.

The poster here (and my understanding is that the criticism of Hasselback is pretty relentless in the TWOP "The View" thread) indicts Elisabeth for: 1) not having a "preggo" (ugh, hate that word) glow; 2) not gushing obnoxiously about her kids; 3)being hardened, ambitious and too into her career; 4) not being "soft"; 5) not worried about her fetus.

This crap just makes me tired. I don't have a problem with someone disliking Elisabeth Hasselback, but I cannot believe they can't find a better reason than her supposed lack of maternal instinct and interest in her career.

Linda said...

Guin,

Along those lines I half-watched the marathon yesterday too.

Remember the criticisms that she isn't appropriately grateful and appreciative? The episodes that I watched yesterday show her expressing gratitude and acknowledging how fortunate they are.

That being said, I do think that the relationship between she and he is dysfunctional. He often acts childish. Yes, sometimes playful. But often childish. She responds as his parent rather than his partner.

I think that what it comes down to is when people are faced with incredible stress (and lets face it . .. raising 8 kids is stressful) they often fall back on their most familiar not necessarily healthy or helpful coping skills.

IMO, J when faced with stress sometimes acts like a helpless child. (BTW, I'd bet that he is the youngest of his family) IMO, K when faced with stress acts like a drill instructor.

To me, neither is evil. Both are misguided and hurting.

Often Jon is the more obviously hurting person. But I even see Kate as hurting. Kate seems to have these unrealistic expectations of others that no one can live up to. (Sounds like she was raised by a critical parent.) She seems like she is constantly let down by others but part of it is her own doing.
She expects perfection from others.

I hope that they get their act together. Not for the sake of the show. For the sake of their marriage and their children and for each other.

marci said...

Dr. H & Guin started a very worthy conversation about how women are "defined" and "define" each other to keep women in their place.

I think I can illustrate the depth of damage that kind of "pegging" does to another human being by relaying something that I observed this week.

I was driving home in rush hour traffic when two cars in the lane to the left of me pulled up next to me at a light and the male drivers proceeded to stick out their heads and start cursing at each other. I had heard some honking behind me moments earlier, so I presume one of them cut the other one off.

Now, this is not an especially unusual thing to occur in a large, metropolitan city, so I listened only to make sure it wasn't going to escalate into a road rage situation. I couldn't help but hear them through my closed window anyway because they were screaming at each other.

So, after several lovely exchanges where they cursed at each other and called each other foul names the (white) man in the rear car called the (black) man in the front car a n*****. Ah, lovely.

Well, a few more words were exchanged, traffic moved. The guy in front made a left and removed himself from the situation (whether on purpose or because that's where he was headed, I'll never know).

My point is, there are certain things people say to each other that have no purpose but to inflict hurt. To say something in the heat of an argument that they *think* will, in effect, end the conversation.

The "I win" argument.

IMO, women do this to each other all the time, but with the added benefit of having extra social "ammo" to lob at each other. There is a whole list of things women (mostly) can say about and to each other that are meant to be conversation stoppers, the "I win" arguments, and they get practiced from an early age.

-Fat
-Ugly
-Too smart
-Not smart enough
-Wear frumpy, out-of-style clothes
-Wear clothes that are too in- style/expensive
-Attract too many men
-Attract too few men
-Work too much
-Don't work
-Have too many babies
-Have no babies
-Good/Bad wife, lover, housekeeper
-Good/Bad MOTHER

The list is endless. Almost every word a woman can use to define herself carries with it the possibility of being torn apart by others.

And the fact that women play along (often gladly) in trying to keep other women in their nice, little domestic boxes is incredibly disheartening.

I think it's perfectly natural that women look at other women and compare themselves.

I think insecurity about our own shortcomings and reading too much into another person's intentions is part of human nature.

I get it.

I've seen enough of the Gosselin blogging world to understand there are a thousand ways to view the Gosselin family dynamics and that there will probably never be a concensus of opinion about them.

I would just like everyone else in the discussion to acknowledge that there is not and will never be an "I win" argument, moment...anything...about this debate we've been having for months now.

Tearing each other down because the "sheeple must be like this if they like Kate" and the "haters must be like that if they don't like Kate" is futile, IMO, and only does more damage to the collective progress women have tried to make in society as a whole.

Not being able to come to an agreement about Kate's faults as a woman only illustrates how women collectively can't seem to come to an understanding and acceptance of our counterparts.

Kate is to be hated? Do you hate me?

Kate is to be loved? Do you love me?

Come on, ladies. I'd burn my bra, but I need it.

Saint said...

Amen, Marci!

Count me in as one who thinks that if I knew a Kate Gosselin-type in real life, we wouldn't hit it off. Her "anxious" personality would wear me down. I don't agree with some of the decisions she's made (with her husband, probably) for her family and children. I can speculate on her motivations for those decisions, but I can't know truly what is in her heart or what experiences and "insider" knowledge she has to have come to those decisions. I'm not inclined to hate or condemn her. I still think that, from what I can see, the show should end. I'd like to see legislation to regulate the industry here in PA. And I do think she should be able to raise her family without the level of vitriol and active campaigning to interfere with her livelihood that I've seen this year.

I'd love to be able to write the above anywhere without several posters calling me a child exploiter or lover of child exploitation. It hasn't happened here, but it has happened in the Gosselin-blogging world to other like-minded commenters.

Guinevere,
I caught part of the marathon yesterday too (thunderstorms interrupted my weeding) and I was amazed to see the "-gate" episodes in retrospect. Knowing everything that's happened really made the show interesting in a whole new way. There are many warm moments between Kate and her kids.

Linda,
ITA about your observations about the marriage. Well said.

Dr. H said...

Well, I must be messed up, 'cause I think I'd get along okay with Kate. I'm snarky and sarcastic and I love lists and organizing. I'd gossip with her and be in awe of her lists. I don't think I'd do the spa thing, be I think she'd be a fun conversation. I admit it: I think Kate Gosselin has a sense of humor and is a person. Open up the ninth circle, I'ma headed in.

Heck, I'm going clothes shopping in a big city next week and there's an Ann Taylor Loft in the mall I'm going to that I may check out. (I think I'll hit the website first, though. Kate definitely has more money than me and I don't want to waste time!)

Theresa said...

Kuromi said...
Fanny, I agree with you. I only got through the first 1/3 or so of that column. Why is this woman dissing Kate, when Kate actually DIDN'T cancel on her organization? I'd think she'd be glad that Kate fulfilled her obligations so that she didn't have to find a last-minute replacement, or have to refund people's tickets.

Maybe--unlike that poor Pastor Craig--she's bowing down to angry messages from trolls chastising her for her role in "exploitation." If so, she's certainly not someone I would ever seek professional (or even common-sense) advice from.

May 21, 2009 3:28 PM
I agree competely Kuromi. I think this woman is misguided and her actions (and this article) were not the right choice. She reacted to a small group, not taking action. I would not see her professional counsel either. She's shown she can't see the whole picture. Not very professional or wise.


Anya said...
TheMrs. said...as far as people "ripping her 24/7, calling her a monster, comparing her to murderers, lying about her and despising her because she's not warm and friendly." i don't see that over here. that may happen at other sites, if so you should take that up with them. that has nothing to do with us. i've never seen those types of hyperbolic comparisons here.

I agree that doesn't happen here, but we would less than honest to not acknowledge that this type of hatred takes up a majority of the Gosselin blogosphere. And as annoyed as it makes our critics, I think this site will continue to discuss what is happening "out there." That's what Guin was doing.
The majority of the Gosselin blogosphere is made up of hatred towards Kate. None of it is helpful to the kids.

I can certainly understand why Kate doesn't bother with negative comments. I think that also bothers the hate blogs.

I understand how people don't have to like people (like Illinois Mom stated how she doesn't like Kate)that is a person's right, but for people to outwardly state their hatred and write incredible hurtful statements ad lies on and about one woman, just boggles my mind. I can't believe that they are a part of a working society with this blatant hatred, let alone are mothers themselves. It's really very sad that these people are functioning in society.

Theresa said...

Linda said...

I hope that they get their act together. Not for the sake of the show. For the sake of their marriage and their children and for each other.

May 24, 2009 6:48 AM
I agree Linda.

Quiltart said...

I understand how people don't have to like people (like Illinois Mom stated how she doesn't like Kate)that is a person's right, but for people to outwardly state their hatred and write incredible hurtful statements ad lies on and about one woman, just boggles my mind. I can't believe that they are a part of a working society with this blatant hatred, let alone are mothers themselves. It's really very sad that these people are functioning in society.This is the part that really bothers me, too. I can't help but wonder if the same people who hurl obscene names and expletives at everything Kate does would do the same in person? I think not... I am probably a generation older than most of the people who are blogging about this show and maybe I'm naive... I don't think I am, but maybe I am ... I have never seen such coarse language written about anyone. Profanity does nothing for me except invalidate much of what the writer is saying.

In addition, there is a subset to those who violently hate Kate online. At least one blog has been created to hate the fans who like Kate or at least those who don't rant on with hate about the show. Is this sick or what? I don't understand what kind of people have have so much hatred in them that it transcends everything they do online...

Maybe Dr H can expound on this a bit for us? TIA!

Baby Mama said...

Wow Quiltart~ How crazy has this whole thing gotten where we not have sites dedicated to non-fans hating and attacking fans of the show? (lol)

And regarding that article. It really all depends on who you ask whether or not Kate was gracious appreciative or even personable for that matter on that particular day. A woman and her daughter e-mailed me that went to that same event. They had a wonderful time. They said Kate was in great spirits and was wonderful with the audience. I didn't get a chance to post it on my blog. Now this only proves that things like this are a matter of opinion right? I mean, this article is written and its made to sound like its representative of the opinion of all those that went. Why is it stated then as FACT that Kate was horrible or unappreciative to EVERYONE that day? Just rambling, but it just depends on who you ask. Lately people are just about saying ANYTHING to get their names in the paper or to get a buck.

Linda said...

Quiltart -

I think that the phenomenon of typing things on a screen that you'd never say in person is similar to "beer courage."

AAP said...

Marci -

I think the person who can find a way to end this deserves the Nobel (sp?) Peace Prize.

There is a whole list of things women (mostly) can say about and to each other that are meant to be conversation stoppers, the "I win" arguments, and they get practiced from an early age.

-Fat
-Ugly
-Too smart
-Not smart enough
-Wear frumpy, out-of-style clothes
-Wear clothes that are too in- style/expensive
-Attract too many men
-Attract too few men
-Work too much
-Don't work
-Have too many babies
-Have no babies
-Good/Bad wife, lover, housekeeper
-Good/Bad MOTHER

The list is endless. Almost every word a woman can use to define herself carries with it the possibility of being torn apart by others.

hard to keep up with the G's said...

Okay this is totally off topic but...
Does anyone know if Kate had breast implants? Watching the episode Twins: One Year Later she looks smaller. I haven't followed the blogs closely enough to know if this has been discussed. Just curious...did she have a boob job? Anybody know? Or is it just a nice bra? If so I want one =)

Jordyn said...

hard to keep up with the G's said...
Okay this is totally off topic but...
Does anyone know if Kate had breast implants? Watching the episode Twins: One Year Later she looks smaller. I haven't followed the blogs closely enough to know if this has been discussed. Just curious...did she have a boob job? Anybody know? Or is it just a nice bra? If so I want one =)

May 24, 2009 9:31 PM
**********************
It's "just a nice bra". In the episode where Kate gets the tummy tuck, Dr. Glassman says all she needs is a properly fitting bra. She did not have breast implants. It's amazing what happens when you go to a department store or Victoria's secret and are measured and wearing the proper sized bra. And, padded bra, too.

If you saw the marathon and the Key West trip she and Jon took, those are most definitely real.

MommyZinger said...

I just wanted to say that I really appreciate the "ideal woman" discussion. So thought provoking.

erin said...

GMA had a piece this morning about the "women hating women" issue, as well as the fact that everything Jon has supposedly done has been ignored. I think that's what gets me the most: Kate is wrong, Jon is just a poor cuckold. To be honest, the hate/craziness is getting to such a level I can't read sites like GWOP any more, even for entertainment. I hate, hate, hate the "Kate drove Jon to cheat" arguments more than anything else. Anyone who has gone through a cheating significant other or a similar issue knows that you beat yourself up with that question. It makes you feel like you are lacking, and had you just behaved "right" this never would have happened. You can't force someone to cheat, it is never the other person's fault because they didn't act right--the cheater is always at fault.

Saint said...

MommyZinger said...
I just wanted to say that I really appreciate the "ideal woman" discussion. So thought provoking.
ITA. I followed this link from the Princess Boards (highondegrassi's comment) today. It's a short article from Good Morning America addressing the same issue. I think it's interesting. Kate of 'Jon and Kate Plus 8' Favorite Fodder for Tabloid Attacks"

GFan said...

That was an excellent GMA video clip. I too think it's crazy for them to be so tough on her a week after her husband is caught cheating. Why isn't the headline "From Dad to Deadbeat Cheater?" And why isn't everyone upset with Kevin and Jody? They dragging that family thru the mud!

erin said...

Jon was never caught cheating, if I remember correctly. He was caught in a bar with girls and in a car with a girl. I did not see anything that he was actually doing that was improper.

Sistas said...

I was happy to see the GMA interview because I hate seeing a woman attacked because she works and is a mother.

Those that hate the family, bloggers and certain family members of the gosselins, do not seem to understand that the show was not that popular until some sites and family members went psycho.

Either way, I hate seeing a woman attacked because she is out earning money for her family and her husband is having a midlife crisis.

erin said...

The above erin is not me, just wanted to make that clear, I think Jon was improper, even if there are no pictures of him actually having sex with someone.

erin said...

There is an erin with a small "e" and an erin with a big "e". Which are you? I am the small one.
What was improper? I have been out with my younger co-workers sometimes into the wee hours. I have been in their cars and they in mine. There has never been anything improper. Perhaps you just want to crucify Jon.

erin said...

Sorry to the other "erin," I didn't mean to imply anything. There have been some problems on the various blogs there have been problems with stealing names. I don't have multiple personalities but I was a little afraid others would think I did. I am sorry if it came across as an attack, I always post with the blogger ID (so mine is highlighted in blue).

eringobragh said...

Thanks erin (blogger). No need to apologize. Erin is a common name now (not so much years ago). I will change mine. it is easier because I am not a blogger.

erin said...

eringobraugh--I actually meet more aarons more than i meet erins. I'm always a little surprised when I come across a female erin!

Anonymous said...

erin said:
Jon was never caught cheating, if I remember correctly. He was caught in a bar with girls and in a car with a girl. I did not see anything that he was actually doing that was improper.Jon was accused of cheathing...remember the girls brother(not that I believe him). Either way, my point was, why is she being pick apart when it was Jon that (in his words) used poor judgement. Not trying to start a debate just stating my opinion that they were too harsh on Kate. =)

GFan said...

Opps...I didn't mean to post anonymously...that post was from me GFan

eringobragh said...

Anon at 6:32 AM
Yes but Kate was similarly accused of "cheating" without any credible proof so I don't believe either story.

erin: Here in the NE section of the US we have a high concentrate of Irish Americans hence the name.

GFan said...

My bad eringobragh. You said he was never caught cheating and your absolutely right. I thought you meant he wasn't accused of cheating. Both have been accused, and I just felt like the only reason Kate was accused was because Jon was. It's a mess that's for sure.

Guinevere said...

I appreciated the GMA piece, too. Of course, the comments (the few I read) are full of women incredulous that anyone would suggest that it's not all Kate's fault. Depressing. Kate is not perfect but she has not earned a tenth of the emnity she receives, IMO. You would think those that hate her would be happy that she's suffering, and it appears that they are, to a degree, but they are also pissed at the very suggestion that she might not be the bad guy here (witness all of the comments about her "playing the victim").

Saint said...

It's nuts, isn't it, Guin? I feel bad for both Jon and Kate. I would not want to be married to either a "take charge" or a "slacker" type. I understand why people don't "love' them. But the hatred for Kate is what I don't understand. It's very extreme.

Momof3plus2 said...

Does anyone know if the famous aunt and uncle are being paid for all these interviews? I am sure that Star Magazine paid them as they usually pay anyone for dirt. It is amazing how someone says they are concerned for the children but have no problem throwing their parents under the bus. If they truly cared about the children this would be done behind closed doors.

Oh by the way it is nice to see this blog that has postings for both sides. That other blog only wants comments from people that are slamming Kate.

Feel bad for the kids said...

Can someone please explain the real purpose for this blog site and others like it?

I've been looking into different blogs and commenting sites recently on this subject of the Gosselins (and there are scads of them out there).
It's so hard to know who is for the kids.
Doesn't seem too many are.
Just too busy making fun of the parents and ripping on the only family members bold enough to speak out on behalf of the children.

It seems everyone just wants to make fun of the family.

I am sincere.
I really don't get it.
What is the purpose of posting such a hurtful thing to the children?

Doesn't anyone think they'll ever see this - this is the internet where everything is permanent.

I didn't watch the entire sketch, just up until the girl told the boy she was glad they didn't name any children after their father, "balding, douche-bag".
I'm sure he says something equally hurtful about the mom.

Imagine that were YOUR child watching.
And even that shouldn't matter.
These are REAL children.

This is shameful.
These children need LOVE, not people posting mean-spirited blogs about them and so-called comedy sketches.
I get why a late-night show would do such a thing.
But this is just a blog - for what purpose?
To provide yet another avenue to place hurtful information that those children will see one day?
(Only if the parents stop the show and fade into oblivion will the kids have a chance of NOT seeing all this meanness about them and their parents. But as long as the parents keep them in the spotlight, these kinds of things will go on and on and on. To whose benefit I wonder?
Certainly not the children).

Even the name of this blog is so mean "gosselins don't need our pity."
Of course they do!
And oh, so much more.
They need pity, love, PRAYERS and people to stop blogging about them, posting pictures of their children (respect their privacy - even if you don't have children - just imagine total strangers doing that to your OWN children).

Have a heart people, and tell the networks and production companies and parents you don't want to invade the children's privacy anymore, even if the parents don't have the sense to protect the children.

Stop blogging about them and posting hurtful things and stop watching them.
The children WILL see all the hurtful things you post.
Do you REALLY want to be responsible for how that will negatively affect them?
Please!
thank you!!

michelle** said...

My goodness Anya!!!! Who in the world cares about your hair?! Much less, Kevin and Jodi's hair?!?!

You guys, I've come to realize, live in your own little world here on this blog. It's pathetic and nothing but gossip. News flash...these children have been and are being exploited! Thank God, everyone but you guys, are finally taking notice!

Oh, and I know you won't dare post this...because I'm anti-this site and the show. I'm pro-for these children's rights!

SamanthaNC said...

Hi Michelle**!
So to sum it up your "anti this site" and ... pro bitchiness?

A Mom-ynous said...

Michelle*, you do realize that with a quick adjustment in child labor law for child performers that these children will still get to be...on a show. *gasp*

Cucumber said...

One thing I did find interesting about Kates blog was the comments were all very positive. I wonder if they are only allowing approved comments or policing the blog closly

***************

I have not read it, but I would presume there are an abundance of comments and if they are all positive, there is no doubt that some type of moderating is taking place.

I've seen the Roloff TLC blogs and some people post some pretty mean things. At least they did a year ago. I haven't read them lately.

michelle** said...

Funny how you did not post my response to SamanthaNC...this blog site is a joke!

Guinevere said...

this blog site is a joke!Aw, one of the joys of being simple is that one is easily amused. Knock-knock jokes, "blog sites"...I've had dogs that will chase their tails for hours. Sure, you're never going to manage advanced math or heavy machinery (and you should probably stay away from sharp objects), but at least you can laugh.