Monday, May 25, 2009

New Episode: TURNING FIVE & THE FUTURE


From TLC: "When we last saw Jon & Kate, they were on a different page. Where are they now? In this one-hour, up close and personal season premiere, side by side Jon and Kate address what the future holds for their family." May 25, 9:00 p.m. (Note that TLC's website now has this episode as 75 minutes long, rather than an hour.)




As an aside, this past weekend a close friend of the blog lost a loved one suddenly and tragically. It's a reminder to us all what *really* matters, and hint: it's not a cable television show about people none of us know in real life. With that said, we are not in the mood for much negativity or ugliness and may feel the need to moderate more carefully, so please be respectful in your comments. Thanks.

204 comments:

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Erin said...

I'm not sure about this episode. I am torn..I don't think it is right that TLC is exploited their personal problems just for ratings, but, on the other hand..I am curious.

GFan said...

Goodness, they've added an additional 15 minutes at the last minute. I'm still amazed that they were able to film, edit, and air this video in only one week. They're going to have more viewers than American Idol last week. I have such mixed emotions because part of me wants to see it but the other part wants to close my eyes...sorta like when you see a wreck. I'm praying they will stand together and make a strong, believable attempt to reconcile (as much as they can in one sitting in front of the world). If they'll just move in that direction and then make baby steps to get their family back on track, then they can truly be an inspiration for other families dealing with similar situations.

jan said...

I have such mixed emotions because part of me wants to see it but the other part wants to close my eyes...sorta like when you see a wreck.Ditto! I watched a couple of the shows this week and felt such a sadness over them possibly splitting up. Despite Kate's nastiness to Jon at times, there was a time not too long ago that they expressed and showed love towards each other. Now they don't and only express love for the family buy not each other specifically. For those of us that care about them, I say let's pray for them.

GFan said...

there was a time not too long ago that they expressed and showed love towards each other. Now they don't and only express love for the family buy not each other specifically. For those of us that care about them, I say let's pray for them.I agree...last summer Kate (and Jon) but mainly Kate, constantly spoke of their "staying together forever, no matter what" and now, she's faced with the unimaginable and thinking of giving up (don't misunderstand, I'm not looking down on her for this, I have no idea how I would react in her situation). She's going to need the Lord, who she says she loves, to see her thru this. I am praying and I will continue, hope many more will as well, including Jon and Kate themselves.

Mary said...

It's been so long since I commented here I forgot how to sign in! I too watched a few of the older shows this weekend and noticed that there was a time when the tension was not so high and the little disagreements were probably due to being crabby at that moment. I do have an opinion that will probably rankle though. Jon needs to buck up and get over it. If he did something he shouldn't have, he should own it and decide whether he will stay in the marriage or not. If he went to those 2 snakes-jodi and what's his name-then he's a jerk and some other things that I won't post here. I can't blame Kate in this instance for keeping it going. If she's going to be a single parent she needs the money and I'm sure if Jon decides to depart he will want half. As for airing this? It needs to be done.
They opened their lives and we all watched. Why is this any different? It's like the final chapter in a book. If they want their version of what is going on to be known they had better show it first.

I watched the Jodi and husband videos. They make me sick. Shut up, mind our own business and stop acting as if you are doing this for the kids. Hypocrisy!

GFan said...

If they want their version of what is going on to be known they had better show it first.

I watched the Jodi and husband videos. They make me sick. Shut up, mind our own business and stop acting as if you are doing this for the kids. Hypocrisy!
************************************I agree with you about J&K needing to use the show to tell their side, if they want us to know it. I'm sure no one else will give it accurately but, I'm not too sure TLC will give an accurate account either. However that's their best shot.
I also agree that Jodi and Kevin should be ashamed. How gross for them to talk about their family that way. I lost ALL respect for them at that point. I didn't have alot of respect due to the "Truth breeds" blog, but now I have none. I don't believe they're being honest either, because in one of the video's Kevin say's they haven't spoken in over a year and in another he says Jon came to him 6 months ago to tell him he thought Kate was cheating. Well, Kevin which was it??? Maybe neither???
I must disagree with you on the part about Kate keeping it going to support herself and kids. I think the best thing for this family is to get off the tube. Whether they stay together or not they have reached the limit of celebrity that they can handle. It's obviously too much for them. So if they want whats best for the family, stop the show, Jon should get a job so he'll feel like he's contributing, and both of them should focus on putting Christ at the center of their individual lives and then work on their marriage and giving their kids a stable, normal life. Just my opinion. As for doing the show to support the family, they've made enough to support their family. Even if they have to downsize the house.

Dr. H said...

Honestly, I don't care and I don't even watch the show, I just follow the chaos. I think the talk surrounding the show is more interesting than the show by far. I'm interested to see what's said next.

Luther said...

Ok, I have a theory, and I hope I'm right.

I'm thinking that tonight's show is it. They're done, and it's over. Why else would TLC add an extra fifteen minutes at the last minute?

How awesome would that be? They go through the whole hour...dramatic music, etc., and at the very end, they are sitting there together, and they say this is the last show. We have to work on our marriage and family.

What do you guys think? Am I wishful thinking? Is Kate too money-hungry?

Luther said...

Forget it. I already see that they have other episodes planned. So much for wishful thinking.

Three Amazing Kids said...

I will be glad when the commercials about them are no longer on Food Network!

erin said...

I won't watch at all this season but will check the blogs to see what is going on. I know that is being a hypocrite but I can no longer look at any of them again in the same way. Something has changed for me. They have lost their innocence.They are too media savvy and deceitful.I feel dirty.

jrlover said...

I have been watching on & off through the marathon this weekend. You can see the transition of Jon's unhappiness. It is so apparent. He is miserable with what has become thier life. And if Kate is unwilling to give it up, I do not think there is any saving their marriage.

I think there comes a point that you must cut your losses and move on towards separate lives. And I think they have reached that point.

I will be watching tonight. I have watched this family since day one.

I have to also add~ I think it is so unfortunate that money has become more important than faith, love and commitment. It could have been handled so very differently.

bigsis88 said...

I haven't watched this show for awhile, but my sisters wanted to watch this episode (and they've ambushed me on the couch) so I guess I will watch it. I agree that this will probably boost the ratings. My sisters aren't even regular watchers; they are only watching because of the media buzz. I have no idea what's going to happen. I agree with the OP who said to pray for this family, and I hope the show ends sooner rather than later.

Linda said...

The whole thing is sad.

Part of me identifies with Jon and part of me thinks that he is such a big whiner.

I remember how hard it was being a stay-at-home parent when the kids were young. My husband worked incredibly long hours and often I was alone with the kids for what seemed like days at a time. I felt trapped. I felt alone. I felt like my world had gotten smaller.

But I had made a promise. And there were times that this promise was the only thing that kept us together.

AAP said...

Arrrgh! I was trying to wait until I watched the whole episode before I commented, but I have to say - Kate, you have hired help!!!! Jon can't help you, fine, have your nanny help you. Watching her complain about doing the party all alone reminds me of everything I dislike about the show!

On the other hand, I haven't seen the show in a while and I am amazed at how big they are getting! They are adorable.

I just wish the interview portion showed Kate getting as angry about the effects all this is having on her kids, as she is about the effects it's going to have on her new career.

Aimee said...

I don't understand alot. She says she does it alone but she was not at home alot in the last two months due to all the promotion for the book and new season. Someone was helping her out, if it was not Jon at home, then it had to be nannies, sitters or family. Someone had to be there.

Also I am so tired about all this paparazzi stuff. I get it, I can see it is a problem but come on why bring this aspect of their public life into the children and their private life. That should be her sanctuary.

Linda said...

AAP - is there a possibility that saying that she was doing the party alone was her way of saying that she was doing the party without Jon?

Jacelynn said...

Wow. I wasn't planning on watching but I did and I am glad I did. It just cemented my thoughts on Jon. He truly doesn't care and is happy to act immature and do his own thing. I feel incredibly sorry for Kate and the children because they didn't ask for Jon to do what he did, whether it was all innocent or not it was extremely poor judgement. I think the fact that Kate is so upset and they don't know if they will remain married proves that what Jon did wasn't innocent. I think it was incredibly sad that Jon couldn't even hang around to help plan his children's party, he told the kids he had to work when Mady and Cara no doubt will watch the show one day (if not now) and will know the truth. I think that if they even finish out the season it will be it.

On a happier note, the kids were adorable and its nice to see that they do get to interact with other friends. :)

Jacelynn said...

I just saw the commercial for next week and its just so sad.

Jen said...

That was really painful to watch. I won't be watching this show ever again. I actually feel guilty that I willingly tuned in to watch a family self destruct. Shame on me.

I hope they go to counseling and repair the damage. Until then, I'm out.

jrlover said...

I am so glad I watched. I am very suprised at how honest she was.

It was very obvious that they havent been living together for a while now.

It is very painful to see the children affected by all of this. I see the same looks on their faces that I see on my girls faces.

Becky said...

Jon needs to grow up. He told the kids he had to work. Jon wouldn't know work if it hit him in the head. I can't belive that a man his age acts the way that he does. I think that he just wants to be a party boy and hang with the younger group. Maybe Jon and Kate should have stopped at just having Mady and Cara, like Jon wanted. Who knows, maybe things would be different then. It's very sad since there are eight innocent children involved here.

Quiltart said...

Linda said...

AAP - is there a possibility that saying that she was doing the party alone was her way of saying that she was doing the party without Jon?
Linda, that's how I took it... After all, she did have Carla to help her at the actual party...

Illinois Mom said...

Jacelynn,

I didn't see it as Jon being immature, or not caring at all.

I saw a miserable man. Very sad, and lost.

I saw the same in Kate as well.

Two very sad people, seemingly not willing to budge.

Laura said...

When Jon asked Alexis at the party if she missed him and she said "yeah daddy don't go away anymore!" and then he gave some line about how "he has to for 'work'...". That specifically made me so sad. So so so so sad :(

Kay said...

Very sad indeed. She did mention about knowing 6 months ago so I guess Kevin and Jodi were not lying. They also said it was 6 months ago. Very sad to see a family implode on TV. And you know if they do, TLC will drop them and move on to another high ratings earner. They don't care and are just using them.Poor kids.Now I am glad they got the dogs. Animals can sometimes diffuse a tense situation. They have the ability to know when someone is hurting.

AAP said...

Linda,

I think you're right, Kate kept emphasizing the fact that she was doing all of the work alone to point out that Jon wouldn't help her. Though, who knows the real reason he wasn't there - maybe Kate asked him to leave because of everything going on.

But the "reality" of the situation is that she didn't need to do it alone. Their nanny could have watched the kids when Kate ran to Party City. Knowing there were paparazzi waiting for them, personally I would choose to leave them at home then subjected my kids to that.

My opinion is that Kate was just playing the martyr for the cameras when that's just not true. She has a staff and friends who could have easily helped her - there was no reason for her to do it alone, except for her to point out how 'alone' she is.

AAP said...

Quiltart - but Jon was at the party? And she put him to work, so he was willing to help out. I think Kate used Jon's poor judgement call to bash him as a father, painting him as someone who didn't care enough for his kids to help with their party. But who knows the real reason Jon was not there? It's entirely possible Kate asked him to leave that weekend because of everything that happened.

Mary said...

This was incredibly sad to watch. I came away from it very conflicted. I do agree that this will be the last season-if they even get through it. It seemed to me that Kate was really crushed. She truly believed they were OK. Did she not understand that she was treating him like hired help through so many of the episodes? I don't mean that as an excuse for Jon's behavior but I can see clearly that this is the fault of both of them. Sure, the situation was tough. 8 kids, a reality show, the stress, the fame, the commitments you have to make to keep this whole thing going, but did they really believe that they could take each other for granted? Jon-grow up. There were any number of different ways he could have made a statement about how he felt. Kate-did you finally see that your behavior can be rough and brisk? She seemed so much more loving to her kids and seemed to be laughing more with the crew. Maybe they will grow through this. Maybe it's the thing they both needed to get a grip on reality and if that reality is that they are divorced, I think they will both always be there for their kids. Sad. So sad. The kids were terrific. Beautiful.

Momof2 said...

I posted on GWOP about why so many watched the show when they were boycotting it and begging others not to watch? My post was very respectful...I noted that almost all their readers watched the season opener...and what happened to not watching? They did not post my comment...I then posted again..asking if I had watched it and then proceeded to bash Kate would they publish my comment? They didn't publish that one either. My third and final unpublished comment was that GWOP was on the TLC payroll and responsible for all the hype and high ratings.

So much for being advocates for the tups.....smells fishy to me.

erin said...

I honestly felt terrible for Kate. Jon was like "I'm in this for the kids." But Kate seemed to be in it for the family. I don't know, I feel like he's gone already and she is sitting there mourning the lose of his marriage and Jon doesn't care one way or the other. Kate crying made me tear up a little bit.

Linda said...

I think that when couples are having problems usually one of the partners is unhappy long before the other partner realizes the depth of their unhappiness.

When the other partner finally realizes it, sometimes the damage is so deep that the relationship is broken beyond repair . . . or the other person has moved on.

I hope that they are getting help.

============

Perhaps Ks reference to dealing with this for the last six months is a nod to the supposed contract that the devoted in-laws brought up.

I also think that Jon mentioning that some people will say anything for money or $20,000 is his way of slamming the Kreiders. (Who I think are pathetic)

MoreCowbell said...

The way they showed us snapshots and old footage of the sextuplets growing up (at the end of the show), made it seem like a "final episode," but then we saw a preview of next week's show during "Cake Boss." Evidently, Kate and Mady go on a trip alone to a spa, which is nice. Cara got her ski trip alone with Dad, and now Mady gets a girl's trip with Mom.

By the way, thanks TLC....love Cake Boss! The screaming/bickering Italians remind me of family.

J&K+8 was odd to watch. The kids are adorable, as usual. The twins, perhaps picking up on the tension, are HELPING rather than acting out, which is nice to see, Kate actually seems....I dunno...softer. I am happy to see that she's backed off the bronzer. In the last few episodes of season four, she was orange. This episode, she looked normal. Tanned, but not Oompa-Loompa orange.

However, it was sad to see J&K basically avoid eye contact the entire party. Kate seems more sympathetic, and why wouldn't she be? She can't go to the store without paparazzi, her husband is reliving his lost college years (nice penis mobile, Jon), and the brother she was closest to, who she named a child after, is selling their private business to tabloids. Have we seen any other family member of Kate's do this? Not even the parents she doesn't get along with, or her sisters. No, the brother she trusted most and was closest to. Yuck. I'd be depressed, too.

But, it is mixed emotions. I watched, but it was sad. Sad, but happy. Depressing, but cute. I really DON'T want the show to end. Selfishly, I love to watch the kids. But....wow.

Oh, and the dogs are still around (Shoka is ENOURMOUS)!

MoreCowbell said...

Whether Kevin and Jodi are right or wrong about a six month "contract," is not the offensive part. It is offensive that they sat their asses on a couch for an Internet tabloid and sold their souls for a few bucks. They not only sold out Jon and Kate, but their nieces and nephews, as well. That's disgusting.

I posted on GWOP about why so many watched the show when they were boycotting it and begging others not to watch?You have hit on Hypocrisy Numero Uno when it comes to GWoP and other hater sites. They hate, but they WATCH, and TLC counts on it.

GWOP was on the TLC payroll and responsible for all the hype and high ratings.AMEN. Without controversy, there's no hype. The hype sure isn't fueled by FANS who like the show. It's the negative that sells in the supermarket check-out. SO, their "advocacy," has basically vaulted the show from "cute cable TV show" to popular, tabloid worthy, ratings Juggernaut.

Oh, and nice to see Karla again! I guess she actually IS a true friend. She's been around since the beginning.

AndiInIL said...

Tonight's episode was so sad to me, especially when one of the 'tups gave Jon a hug and said she didn't want him to leave anymore.

My opinion is that the show is the root of all of their problems. I think it is very clear that Jon does not like the fame and celebrity status and is ready to go back to being 'normal' and annonymous. And I don't blame him - having your every move photographed would get beyond annoying and frustrating. On the other hand I believe that Kate is loving the fame and perks and opportunities that she now has - who wouldn't want her beautiful country mansion, spa days and to jet-set around the country on free trips? I don't blame her either for enjoying all of these things.

As Kate said tonight - they have grown into two different people who want different things. My personal opinion is that if they continue to film this show, their marriage is doomed and that makes me very sad because I remember that very first 1 hour special, it was clear to me that they were very much in love.

There was a time where I loved the show and hoped they continued to film it forever just so we could see the unique and special people that these 8 children grew up to be. But in light of all that has happened, I want nothing more for the show to stop so they can focus on what is really important in life. I wish them and the kids the best of luck (particularly the twins, as I think it would be harder to shield them from the media than the 'tups).

bigsis88 said...

Erin,

I agree. I felt Kate gave a really heartfelt speech about being in it for the family, and Jon not only piggybacked off her (which made him sound insincere IMO) his comment about being in it for the kids sounded like a passive-aggressive "F*** you Kate" to me.

I also agree that Kate's references to not having help were referring to Jon specifically. I can understand wanting some "time off," but taking it during the tups birthday weekend just seems mean to me.

It was sooo awkward when Jon asked about the wet moon bounce and Kate just ignored him. The tension in the air was so thick, and their discomfort was obvious IMO. It seems like Jon has turned this around and is using the situation as an excuse for blaming Kate and checking out of the marriage. Whether he cheated or not, if he wants their marriage to work he should be groveling right now. Not to say that their marital problems are solely his fault, but IMO he has yet to admit to any wrongdoing, and his attitude doesn't bode well on the future of their relationship.

BooDeadbeats said...

Jon admitted that he is leaving his family because he had children too young. The kids got the message loud and clear that he does not want to be a father anymore. He left them to go hang out in bars and with a third-grade teacher.

As a woman, I am so insulted by the comments on GWOP blaming Kate because she is a working mom. She had the booktour planned for some time and the book came out in time for Mother's Day because it is a good selling strategy.
Instead of sticking out one more season in order to get some income and being happy his wife had the book again for more income, Jon decides he would rather sleep around.

In this economic climate, most families would be happy to have someone working. Does Jon think there is some magical IT job waiting for him? Unlike his wife, he does not have a steady work history. he liked to his children about working.

Depressed Dad said...

There was nothing good about this episode. Nothing of value. Only sadness and resignation.

Like some of you, I fell in love with the Gosselins after watching the first documentary on their lives. My wife and I raised our kids watching them. It was obvious to us when we were watching Season 4 that something was wrong. They didn't touch anymore or playfully interact. They just took trips and had tense and nasty exchanges.

When Jodi's sister started that wretched blog I defended them.

When the rumors started I didn't want to believe them and I defended them. Then came the photos and the video and I just couldn't believe it. Tonight my wife and I watched our last episode of "Jon and Kate Plus Eight" and we are thoroughly depressed.

We never watched the show for the kids. We watched the show to see how a young couple coped against all odds. Tonight we learned that their love didn't survive sextuplets, twins and fame, and that Jon has mentally checked out of the marriage.

Watching Jon's eyes blink and dart from side to side while he weakly defended himself left no doubt in my mind he is guilty of something. The deadness in his eyes when he seemed to pretty much admit that he and Kate had no future together was just jaw dropping.

I just hope that their marriage's obvious destruction underscores the the importance of putting your MARRIAGE, and not your kids or financial security, first if you want it to last.

When I go back to the end of season 4, I feel like Jon made a cry for help and she just couldn't hear it. She went on tour and kept marching and he spiraled out of their marriage.

BUT he was the one who gave up and he could have done a million other things than what he did. Leave the country for heaven's sake if you need to get away or get her attention. Partying with a 23 year old and spending the night at her house?

I'm not going to exploit this relationships destruction and I apologize from the very bottom of my heart to their children if the fame I helped their family achieve deprived them of having two parents who love each other.

It has been truly awful to watch this cute couple of young parents have their love for each other die.

AAP said...

Bigsis88 -

Recently Samantha and I had a conversation about how 2 people can read the same thing but have 2 different reactions to it, and your comments about the show remind me of that because I have a completely different view.

Jon did apologize to his family for his actions, and I think his uncomfortableness (is tht a word - lol) of talking about his problems in public, especially when he's been labeled the bad guy, is coming across as insincere. When Kate talks about what she does for the kids, I took Jon's comments as saying hey, I also do alot for my kids. Considering in a previous episode Jon spoke of how hard of a time he is having being a stay at home dad, I think Kate saying I work to support the kids as a slap to Jon, rubbing a little salt in the wound. I think Kate a lot of shots at Jon because she could, and I don't think that bodes well for their relationship either.

And if what Kevin and Jodi said was true, that they did have an arrangement that their marriage was over and Jon could see other people, then Kate's a better actress then we have all given her credit for.

nomoredrama said...

I wasn't going to watch but I did. I wish I hadn't.

No one is more to blame for this situation than Jon and Kate. They both share fault and one is not more at fault than the other. Kate's whining and crying about what is going on can be solved with on novel idea...GET OFF OF THE TV! Jon whining that this wasn't his choice, he doesn't want this: THEN SPEAK UP!

Neither of them claim to like the media attention yet both of them want the toys and perks that come along with it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Sooner or later you have to make hard decisions. Personally (and maybe I'm jaded because of what I do) I'd rather be piss poor, homeless and panhandling then lose the cohesiveness of my family. Things happen, divorce happens but when 2 people make a choice to let their marriage fall apart for whatever reason, that is wrong.

Im just going to say what I think: Jon appeared to be under the influence to me. Kate was clearly, at times, putting on a show for the cameras. I think they both genuinely love their kids. I think Kate has genuinely lost touch with her kids. The mommy playing with the babies left the building. I think both Jon and Kate are very immature and selfish.

I also think that, at this point, there isn't a therapist in the world who can help them. Why? Because they don't want help. Neither one is willing to bend. The twisted blame game ends with 8 losers....we all know their names.

There is so much more I can say but I don't really see the point.I so vehemently oppose what these two are doing in every way. There are valuable lessons to be learned and intriguing discussions that occur in the Gosselin blogosphere but I think right now I need to take step back from discussions. Life is so short and fragile. It should be spent making a positive impact. I cannot make an impact on the Gosselin situation. Therefore, I'll write and discuss things I can change, participate in and/or enjoy.

Thanks, as always, for listening to me rant.

AAP said...

BooDEadbeats -

Jon admitted that he is leaving his family because he had children too young.I don't really watch the show that closely - is this something he admitted in the show? Where did you hear this?

AAP said...

NMD - I agree with you 100%

GraceinCO said...

Sad, sad show. Kate is placing most of the blame on Jon. Granted he's not blameless but she really doesn't see the situation from his perspective at all does she? She is a sad, bitter mom--I worry about her the most since she really seems to think show/fame/money is what her children need most right now (as seen by her choices). If she truly believed "family" is what her children need the most, then keeping her family together would be her highest priority.
I am praying they get counseling before making any decisions--ALL marriages struggle at some point, it doesn't mean you give up. Counseling can do wonders to get each partner see the situation from a new perspective, to make positive changes on each side of the situation. I pray they don't give up.

cryssylit said...

I watched today sadly. I read Kate's people magazine interview and was saddened.

I am a stay at home parent and have been for 9 years. It is hard, but at times it is necessary. You feel alone and unworthy at times.

I felt sad when Alexis told her daddy to stay with them.. or whatever it was she said... and he lied and told her he was working. I felt sad for Kate. You can tell she is trying to put on a brave face.

I feel that Jon needs to smarten up and grow up. There is no reason to be out until 2 am with another woman even if they are just friends. Kate was home with the kids full time for awhile and now it is his turn. And it is not even as if she is working full time for years and years. She goes away for a month or so here and there. He needs to deal with it and do his part, it is his time to stay home now. It is never easy and it never will be.

mary said...

I feel really bad for this couple. Its clear that this is not what either of them signed on for. Jon has had to give up a job that he liked in order to follow the show; Kate's life is clearly out of control now that she is writing books and travelling. They might have a chance if they quit the show, but I don't know if Kate is willing to do that. Also, if they split up, Kate will be up the creek without a paddle emotionally. I don't know of any man who would take on 8 kids, plus the way she treats Jon would scare any man away.

I don't blame Jon. I don't blame Kate either. They are victims. When they had 8 kids, and TLC offered them a show, I'm sure they thought the money would help, but I highly doubt that they thought that TLC would own them as they do now. Soooooooo, I blame TLC!

Momof2 said...

MY take on it is Jon wanted out of the "Jon and Kate plus 8" show.....Kate did not. They are going in 2 different directions because Jon has clearly made his feelings known but Kate wants the show and the $$$. It's her way or no way. He crossed her...he did something wrong...she made up her mind..now he's cut out.

Granted, he shouldn't have strayed but WHO KNOWS how long this has been an issue with them? I think there's a lot we don't know...but I cannot stomach Kate being the martyr. She states she is going to do it "alone"...well that's her choice. If she VALUED her marriage she could change things. IMHO..SHE is the only one who has changed...and Jon has dealt with that change.

texasmommy said...

MoreCowBell,
I agree with you that it was good to see that Carla is still around and helping Kate~at least that is one stable relationship the kids can count on.
While scanning over GWOP tonight, I was shocked to see that they are now going after Carla's character and her integrity. Those people just won't stop!

I personally felt VERY sorry for Kate tonight. I agree that we probably saw a more genuine side of her than we have seen in years. It was also interesting to see the twins' sweet interactions with Kate and the little ones.

I know that "it takes two" to destroy a marriage, but I really felt sorry for Kate and was extremely disappointed in Jon's demeanor. The conversation between he and Alexis broke my heart~HOW CAN HE BE SO SELFISH to walk away from all of his babies??!
If he is so concerned about the "Google results" that his children will read about him someday, then he needs to be proactive and turn this mess around into something positive!

bigsis88 said...

AAP,

I guess I don't take what Jon said as an apology because to me the fundamental part of an apology is saying "I'm sorry for XYZ." Jon's apologies were IMO a variation of "I'm sorry if..." which doesn't count because apologies shouldn't be conditional, or "I'm sorry, but..." which doesn't count because apologies should be about taking responsibility, not deflecting blame.

I have never felt sorry for Jon being in the stay-at-home role because I think his whining about it is BS. The man, to our knowledge, doesn't have a college degree or any technical/trade school certification and admits to being unambitious. For him to resent a position he put himself in is childish and unrealistic. Jon's idea of getting out of the house and doing something other than stay-at-home parenthood seems to revolve more around fun things (skiing, clubbing, etc.) than job-related things. If you want to ditch your kids to have fun and are frustrated that you don't have that option, maybe you should have thought about that before having kids. His responsibilities are now to them, and their family circumstances leave him with 2 options: stay home or get a job. Shooting the breeze with younger people isn't part of the plan.

On another note, I think the marriage contract is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It sounds like something straight out of a trashy beach novel, and the story surrounding it just doesn't make sense. If there was a contract, why would their marriage be potentially over? Wouldn't they just agree to be more discreet and call it a day? I'm genuinely confused about that whole thing: Are Jodi and Kevin saying that A) the marriage is over (now) because Jon is mad that Kate let him take the blame for infidelity even though they have a contract, B) the public revelation of the contract made Jon and Kate decide to just end it because the secret's out or C) none of the above?

Denise said...

How very, very sad tonight's episode was. Watching Jon and Kate's interactions was painful not because of the emotions expressed but because there didn't seem to be any emotional connection between them at all. And the scene at the very end, with the whole family barbecuing together? Saddest of all because you can tell they're pretending everything's OK for the kids. Kids are smart...this can't last.

bigsis88 said...

Momof2,

From what was shown it seems like Jon is the one who doesn't value the marriage anymore (One could probably make an argument that his position is a result of Kate not valuing their marriage previously, but that's another issue). In the interviews, she articulated some desires to stay together and work things out, whereas Jon seemed to be saying that it's over in a roundabout way. I'm sure they both chose their words carefully, but he never said anything that would indicate that they are planning to stay together. That doesn't mean everything he said is evidence that they will break up, but the fact that he didn't make reference to fixing his marriage during his long-awaited opportunity to do so says alot IMO, especially since Kate dropped quite a few pointed hints alluding to her openness to the possibility.

MoreCowbell said...

How are they supposed to just "get off the TV," now? They have a large house to pay for. Kate's books can pay for that, and maybe they already have, but without the show, how popular would her books be? THIS IS THEIR LIFE, as they have told us. It is also their job. For all the armchair parents crying for them to "just end it," and calling Kate greedy, how do we know if they even can? Do they have enough in the bank to pay for the house, school tuition for eight young kids, orthodontics for eight, and 8 college funds? And now we have a possible divorce to pay for and assets being split in half. CAN they "just quit?" They got into this because it was a way to pay the bills. I'm thinking it's the same reason the Hayes family also got into it. It certainly doesn't look like they got into it for FUN. There are 10 Hayes' kids, too. A cop's salary can't pay for that many growing kids.

I think they're stuck. They're under contract TO TLC (a "marriage contract?" Oh please!) and TLC is still raking in the ratings thanks to EVERYONE (fans and haters) who just keep on watchin', BUYING the tabloids and clicking on the sites who report controversy. If no one bought the tabloids, the paparazzi would go away and leave them alone. But it's funny. The ones buying the tabloids are most likely the "advocates," so they can read the trashy stories. You know, the same ones who claim to be "so worried for the children?" Riiiight.

I think they're stuck. It's kind of hard to turn back, and Jon doesn't have the ambition to go back to school, get his degree and make the money required to raise the kids and pay the bills. He's checked out. But doing it AFTER buying such a large home and committing to another season is gutless. Oh, but he wasn't so "disillusioned" with the show and its trappings that he resisted the urge to buy himself a hot, phallic sports car. A car that wouldn't hold HALF of his kids at once, making it a truly selfish purchase. He can take Cara and Mady to school in it, but that's it.

Maybe Kate can find another project to make money. Hosting a show on TLC, or something. But, until something else comes along, I think they're stuck.

Depressed said...

Another cliffhanger to keep us tuned in to all 40 episodes. One thing I think for sure is the nasty press and paparazzi (hate that word) will only get more aggressive because this family has crossed a line and there is no going back. I forsee pictures of the kids at their schools, more and more pictures of them on their own private property, more shots of them going to grocery stores and stuff like that. More nasty newspaper articles.I would hate to see their cars being followed at dangerous speeds. I just wish they would both just shut up and go away and tend to their kids, but no, they just keep on talking.I really felt like it was wrong that I was listening to their personal issues. And I know one day in the not too distant future, their kids can pick this up in Walmart and watch it also.

AAP said...

Bigsis88 -

I agree with NMD that a couple of times Jon appeared to be under the influence of something, and he's oviously struggling with everything that happened. I think it's hard to get a credible apology under those circumstances. Regardless of the flaws that Jon has (and there are many), I don't think the SAHD is turning out the way he thought it would, and the struggles he has with this are similiar to many former working moms who become SAHMs. As whinny as Jon is, it still doesn't make what he feels any less valid. It doesn't excuse his behavior, but he has openly said, I am really having a hard time with this and Kate's response is, but I'm not so deal with it.

This was at TV Squad, in their review of the show at http://www.tvsquad.com/2009/05/21/preview-of-jon-and-kate-plus-8s-new-season-2-minutes-of-cripplin/
It's their paraphrasing of the season 4 finale.

Jon: "Hey, remember when I met you, and we got along, and I was still able to have an opinion and a backbone? And I wasn't constantly being belittled on national television? Yeah, that was nice."
Kate: "Hmm. I don't recall. You know what I do recall? That time I got a bunch of book deals and a grip of cash for belittling you on national television. Now that was nice."
Jon: "How about we quit the show?"
Kate: "How about you shut up?"

That pretty much sums it up for me.

If you want to ditch your kids to have fun and are frustrated that you don't have that option, maybe you should have thought about that before having kids. His responsibilities are now to them

I would say before Jon got frustrated with being the dad from Jon and Kate, he appeared on the show to be a responsible dad (and the parent who played with the kids.)

Are Jodi and Kevin saying that A) the marriage is over (now) because Jon is mad that Kate let him take the blame for infidelity even though they have a contract, B) the public revelation of the contract made Jon and Kate decide to just end it because the secret's out or C) none of the above?The way I took what Jodi and Kevin said was that 6 monthes ago, Kate decided the marriage was over and informed Jon. Then jon's scandal comes out and Kate's PR started to make Jon the bad guy. (Now) Jon spilled everything to Jodi and Kevin with hopes they would sell the story to the tabloids so Jon can get his story out without saying it himself. At the same time, Jon is trying to sabbotage the show to ended so he can go back to being just Jon.

As for the marriage "contract", well, I'm not certain there is something written down on paper - if I had to guess I'd say no - but I do think they both had a conversation about the marriage being over, and what they are going to do about the show. I think it's plausable that Kate gave the ok for Jon to have girlfriends. He was just suppose to do it discreetly.

As for their marriage being over I guess we will just have to wait and see.

massmom said...

Depressed Dad- I totally agree with everything you said. I don't even have to post now- just a big DITTO.

Miranda said...

I think I'm in the minority here, but this episode really sucked me in. I think Jon and Kate were being honest. Whether or not you liked what they said, I think it was very real. The editors did a great job.

At one point during the episode, I started thinking about slimy JOdi and KEvin (who, in my opinion, should be called JOKE, since apparently KON is so imaginative and catchy). I wonder what they were thinking about when they watched the show (even though they said they weren't watching, you know they're part of the GWOP cult that says they're opposed to the show but watch it anyhow). I think they're low lives.

Anyhow, I'm not sure I'll watch the remainder of the season (Intervention just started a new season). But this episode was good. I think even if the kids weren't a part of the show, I'd watch just to see Jon and Kate. We saw a different side of Kate last night. She's a funny witty lady. Love her or hate her, there is something about her that keeps people watching, right?

SarahW said...

AAP - Well that could explain why Jon will say he didn't "cheat" on Kate, even though he has committed adultery, that is, spent time with another woman as if she were a girlfriend, or even slept with another woman while still married.

To me, that's a fundamentally dishonest assertion. He's cheated if he's cheated, and it doesn't matter if Kate chooses her kids over her husband, and says do what you want, just don't screw up our ability to support the family. I hope it isn't his rationalized workaround of his bad acts.

He seemed to have recovered somewhat by the time of the birthday party, but the early couch shots showed him taciturn, resentful, sullen, and looking pretty awful. He's bloated and bleary eyed, and has the appearance of a man who has been hitting the sauce pretty hard and is sluggish enough to be hungover (don't know if reports of public/private drinking binges are true, it's just his appearance suggested something like that).

Kate's a flawed person, but she's right about this much. He needs to get over himself and do something productive instead of sulk and pout about his unsatisfactory existence. Get a job. Volunteer. Go to school. Drinking and messing around like a frat boy is no way to go through life.
And he gave up that life when he married and had kids. He has NO RIGHT to live that way.

If he wanted out of his marriage, he should have had to earn his way out with counseling and attempts to work it out and reconcile, and to do something productive with himself instead of blaming Kate for not being ready to drop the "family business" and being good and making the most of it.

He has a right to say no to the show and always did. He has no right to sulk and whine because he is too ambivalent about the perks and benefits to give it up. It's clear to me now Kate's overbearing bossiness is her ineffective way to take up the slack , the way women do when their husbands are weak or drunk or sacks of potatoes they have to drag across the finish line to family goals.

I feel sorry for them all, more than I should feel sorry for people I don't really know. I can tell that Jon has failed his family, though, and is a bratty child if he thinks he didn't cheat on his marriage vows, even if Kate ostensibly set him free. He's not free from his obligation to God and society and his kids. Kate can't give him that permission.

nomoredrama said...

Jon and Kate are stuck? Were they stuck at the end of season 4 when Jon wanted to be done? When they said they'd do the show until it is damaging to the family, were they saying that under duress? Is the show not immensely damaging to the family now?

They can absolutely pull the plug. That is what lawyers are for. I didn't say it would be an easy decision. First of all, do you really think that if the estimates on what they are making are even remotely true they wouldn't have enough money to maintain the lifestyle? Second of all, even if they couldn't afford to maintain the lifestyle but the family was intact, which is more important?

Did Kate say even once that the reason they are continuing is because she's locked in a contract? That's not the reason she's continuing. She's said over and over (and over) that she likes her job, she feels she's becoming good at it and this is what she wants to do. Bottom line: Kate wants this. Jon and Kate chose this and one of the lessons learned is this: Even freebies have a cost.

At what point do Jon and Kate become responsible for their actions?

HW said...

Jon and Kate should each be falling all over themselves seeking the other's forgiveness. If Jon did indeed cheat on Kate, then he needs to admit that and work for Kate's forgiveness.
Kate has also played a huge part in this marriage falling apart. Cheating on one's spouse is not the only way to destroy a marriage. She has belittled him on national television for years. She has made disparaging comments about him to their children. She has always insisted it was his job to ease her stress yet we have never seen her do anything to ease his stress. He has appeared to be the primary caregiver to the kids and she never seemed appreciative.
I would like to see Jon acknowledge his mistake and I would like to see Kate acknowledge her cruel treatment of Jon and ask his forgiveness as well.

Jacelynn said...

-Illinois Mom: Its just my opinion, I did think Jon acted very immature in the episode. He lied to his children, knowing full well that they will see the episode one day. He proceeded to go on and say he did nothing wrong with the girl, even though from what Kate says I don't believe its true. I do agree that they are both miserable and lost but I still think Jon acted immature again tonight.

-erin: I agree, I don't think Jon cares at all what happens to Kate and their marriage, I think he has already given up when it seems like Kate wants to work through it and see what happens.

-AndilnlL: I don't think the show is the root of their problems, I think Kate's past attitude and Jon's immaturity is the problem. Jon just doesn't seem to care about the fact that he has 8 children and Kate is trying to build a career to support them. And at the same time Kate didn't seem to care that Jon was the one who was supposedly raising her 8 children. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I think Jon felt under appreciated and he lashed out in a wrong way. I think Jon would have done this regardless of the show.

mary: IMO they are not victims. They could have turned down the show at any point, they didn't. Jon was not forced to hang out with girls in bars when his children are home with the nanny because his wife is working, he did. Kate is not forced to go across country to make money, she does. People are responsible for their actions and the only victims in this are the children.


-I loved when Kate said she even appreciates the naysayers. :) And she appreciates all the viewers regardless of why they are watching. :)

Sorry its so lengthy.....

themrs said...

i can't comment on the show as i didn't watch it and don't plan to. i felt at the final episode of season four that i personally had to stop watching. after reading all your comments, i'm glad i didn't. it sounds really awful. i do,however, have a few questions if someone would answer. i understand that they are living separately, will they film season 5 separately then? did they address this? did they say if they are going to counseling? i really hope so.
as far as the comments about them not being able to financially quit the show, i think it's a matter of priority. they could sell the house. they could downsize their standard of living. my husband and i made a decision years ago to send our kids to private christian school. i am a SAHM and my husband is in construction. our tuition is more than our mortgage. but we choose to live in a worse neighborhood, in a house that is really too small for us and drive old cars. those sacrifices are worth it to us for our kids to get the education we'd like them to have. i'm not saying that J&K SHOULD do anything, i'm just saying that there are almost always options. i think if i had seen the show, i most likely would have agreed with everything NMD said, LOL.

GFan said...

Okay I skimmed/read thru all the posts and it seems no one noticed this but me, so perhaps it was my imagination. I found it odd that the show went from 60min to 75min at the last minute (like it wasn't initially going to be that long), so I wondered why and I noticed a couple little things. First, in the preview there is a point where Kate and Jon are on the couch and both very cautiously look toward each other and they both have a very uncomfortable look on their face and she sort of shrugs her shoulders. That was not in the show. Had the producers asked a question and then decided to remove the answer at the last minute? Did Jon and Kate request the answer be removed? Another odd thing is the cookout at the end. I think that was taped before all of this, and I believe she's wearing that outfit in the episode where they introduce the new set. So what does all of this mean? I dunno, maybe nothing. Or maybe Jon and Kate requested some last minute changes (don't they get to preview before it airs). Maybe the producers decided to handle things differently?? I'm probably just reading into it too deeply but it struck me strange especially when that one particular part was omitted.

JerseyGirl said...

I have never invested much emotion into reality TV personalities, until now. I really hate Jon Gosselin. Last nights episode clearly demonstrated what a piece of crap he is.

Sometimes it sucks to be a stay at home mom/dad, however millions of men/women manage to do it without turning into spoiled little children themselves. There is no excuse for his behavior and I don't believe for one second that Kate ever cheated on him. If he actually did go to Kevin/Jodi and claim she did then it was his own paranoia and displaced guilt. What a tool. I used to find him amusing, not anymore.

I hope to hell that Kevin and Jodi enjoy spending the money that they got from Star magazine, they both disgust me to no end. Neither of them care about those kids, and I think its clear that at least one of them has been posting all along at GWOP. Freaks.

CincyMom said...

So after swearing not to watch it, I caved and recorded it before my family sat down at 7:30 to watch Bedtime Stories (so cute BTW).

The kids have really grown up! Talking well, having separate friendships, bigger helping younger. Very cute.

I do worry that sometimes kids behave well when they know something is wrong or sense sadness in an adult. I've seen my own kids do this (not over anything so serious, thankfully). I hope that wasn't the motivation for Cara and Mady helping to do the party favors--that would be sad they are sensing that, but I'm guessing they are.

Kate said she was angry that she was being accused of the same thing as Jon when the difference is, she is out "doing what she is supposed to do" by working and he was being accused of it because he was "making bad choices." I still don't know what I believe about either one. I do know it is sad to see, however it all came about.

I too, wonder if the kids are privy to the personal revelations we have been given. If not, are they not allowed to watch their show now?

I thought Kate's comments about resenting people (fans) at first and now being more OK with it is a natural progression. Funny how it reversed with her and Jon.

Wasn't the party on Mother's Day? But there was no mention of that. Maybe I am remembering it wrong.

Scary that photographers chase a van with 8 kids and a parent. I think that would be very frightening.

Finally, maybe Kate is right that you can't go back (I still might have problems with the semantics of that), but I do think that doesn't mean the opposite is to continue on your current path. Maybe there are branches in the path that could be chosen to go on a different course, to continue the metaphor.

mkb77 said...

Here's my take on last night's situation.

I truly believe that Kate's "forever" talk during last year's taping of the wedding in Hawaii were said because at that point in time, she was reassuring herself, not the children. I think she knew then that her marriage was in trouble and said what she did trying to convince herself that if Jon renewed his wedding vows with her, he would see that this marriage was viable and worth saving.

Kate is playing the part of the martyr and I truly believe that is very normal behavior. She is angry, hurt and bitter and picking up the pieces and acting as if she is the only parent in the picture. I understand her behavior, I don't condone it, but, she is in a situation that she needs to handle the way she sees fit, and if acting the martyr is what she feels she needs to do, who am I to question it?

Jon, in my opinion acts as if it is okay to be out with friends and do whatever he wants. He said he feels like he is living in a fishbowl, ok..he is. But you know what? Those choices were made awhile ago while he was on board with the whole idea. I say, if you are unhappy, you have choices to make. You either tell your spouse you are unhappy and you want out, or you want to work on it. You do not go out at 2 am with a bunch of kids that are 10 years younger than yourself and complain that the paparazzi is stalking you and taking pictures of your private life. He never ever should have put himself into that position, or his wife and children in that odd position. Bottom line: it was wrong. I also get the distinct feeling he doesn't want to work at this relationship and that he can do whatever he wants, when he wants to.

I noticed that Kate didn't put a slice of cake on his plate at the party and my husband and I laughed out loud at that. She is mad at him, he is feeling like a whipped puppy. They both are acting like any other couple would in that situation only they have cameras following their every move and recording their every word.

I don't see this working out to be honest. It's sad, but, right now, it seems that they just are too stubborn to budge.

Saint said...

I think counselling can help them.
They need counselling.
The show at this point is a serious mistake.
This may be a great way to get viewers, but it is not a good thing to do. I think they seemed genuine, not as if it were all a big hoax to drum up ratings.

Illinois Mom said...

No More Drama,

I agree with your post 110%. You said it better than I could have. I too believe Jon was under the influence for part of the interview and Kate was acting in a way I had never seen her. Maybe she is using some prescription medication to help with her anxiety, which is a good thing.

I do not think Jon and Kate are victims of TLC,the kids are the victims here. Jon and Kate are consenting adults and could have made different choices.

Kate did seem genuinely hurt and surprised that they were no longer on the same page.

I think both of them have changed, but Kate's transformation seems to be more dramatic and visible. They are not the same people who married and struggled in my opinion, and I think Jon has had enough of being bossed around.

I felt sorry for Kate as well as Jon. I think as Kate has stated before that she doesn't see people, I think she didn't pick up on Jon's cues, or threats or whatever they were. She might have assumed that he would stick by her no matter what.

As I recall Jon stated that Kate wanted him to quit his job 2 years ago to help with the kids. If he felt like he needed to keep it for whatever reason, I wish that he would have. At the time, I think the reason was so one parent could always be home with the kids. He is actually quite lucky to have this opportunity. I get tired of hearing that parenting is a thankless job. There are so many wonderful blessings that go with raising children. I never find it thankless. I feel privledged in every way that I know I am shaping my kids for the future.

Nancy said...

Counseling can DEFINITELY help and should happen whether they decide to stay together or separate. Marriage is probably one of life's biggest challenges. Divorce is an easy way out in today's society. Unless there is serious abuse (physical, verbal, emotional), I truly believe even the toughest of issues can be worked out.

I agree with several here that it doesn't take material things to make a family. If the show ends they could downsize and put the focus back on each other and their family. If that means they both work full-time, so be it.

I also agree that even though what seems like the easiest solution to us, may not be to them. I don't think it is as simple as many of the viewers think it is.

Let's hope they can work this out and put their efforts into their family and each other right now.

GFan said...

themrs: i understand that they are living separately, will they film season 5 separately then? did they address this? did they say if they are going to counseling? I don't believe they admitted to living apart. Kate said Jon wasn't there because he wanted a weekend off. Hannah told her Daddy she missed him and didn't want him to go away again and he said well Daddys sometimes have to work. I think the wounds are so fresh that they are probably avoiding each other alot. They never discussed counseling and IMO they didn't really address the future. They both just kind of said "we don't know"
JerseyGirl:Would you be willing to speculate as to who you believe, at GWOP, could be Jody and/or Kevin. This could be fun =)

CincyMom said...

The Mrs: I totally didn't get a feel that they were living separately. Jon was away the birthday weekend, probably due to stress between them) but beyond that, we don't know anything. Kate said in her blog that Jon wasn't able to help for the bday planning because they got their wires crossed. I think that is "nice" for he wanted to be gone for a little break. For the show, she said he needed some time off.

They never said anything about how they would handle Season 5.

I agree with you that parents make hard decisions about childcare, school, housing etc, but there are always choices. They are not railroaded into their situation forever, IMO.

Illinois Mom said...

A Nissan Nismo is a phallic symbol, a penis mobile? Actually, it kindof makes sense to have a small car for short errands. It isn't like it's a Porsche. That is about as ridiculing as Jon's balls in Kate's purse.

I agree the paps will not let up after this. It will get worse.

Illinois Mom said...

Jersey Girl said-

Last nights episode clearly demonstrated what a piece of crap he is.


You know some of us, me, feel the same thing about Kate.

However I do think they are equally to blame for their situation.

AAP said...

Sarah -

I agree with a lot you have said about Jon about the poor choices he made. But just like Kate, Jon is human and makes mistakes. Personally, after Jon's behavior I think Kate should have cancelled the majority of her apperances and be at home with the kids - because their father was obviously making bad decisions and the kids needed to have 1 responsible family member to protect them.

But I have more sympathy for Jon ever since Kate went on all the talk shows saying they were going to work on this privately, and then turns around and gives an interview to People magazine alone, telling her side of the story. I think she's trying to save her career, where she won't let anyone take her down (again, I wish I could have seen that much passion when she talked about the effects on the kids), and is making Jon to be the total bad guy.

I think the party planning comments during the show were calculated along those lines as well. We don't know why Jon wasn't there to help. Whether you believe she's upset because of betrayal or because of the effects it will have on her career, Kate just found some pretty devastating evidence that her husband was cheating on her. Maybe Kate asked him to leave the house (if he was my husband, that's what I would have done.) Maybe Jon chose to leave because he didn't want to fight in front of the kids and didn't want there to be tension in the house. We don't know what really happened.

However, we do know that Kate has help. And hearing her say over and over again how she has to plan the party all alone - no, you didn't need to take the kids with you to Party City and deal with the p-people because you have a nanny - just makes me believe that Kate is showing the world how "alone" she is to get sympathy and again, make Jon the bad guy, so even if they get divorced she can still have her career.

MoreCowbell said...

Another odd thing is the cookout at the end. I think that was taped before all of thisOh, I definitely think the cookout was filmed prior to the tabloid fallout and the kid's party. At the cookout, Kate offered to get Jon's plate for him and spoke normally to him. Also, did you catch how much meat he was cooking? First shot, the grill is covered with hamburgers and what looks like large scallops (what one of the boys thought were "marshmallows"). Then, it's covered with hot dogs. There was enough meat cooking to feed the Gosselins and the crew. Maybe it was a cookout for everyone on set done earlier this spring.

Oh and I LOVE "JOKE" as a name for JOdi and KEvin. Very clever! Even better than KON (which always makes me think of Ricardo Montalban yelling "KAAAAAAHN!" during the second Star Trek movie, which is actually the only Star Trek movie I've ever seen)!

And I also noticed the "two versions of Jon" during the broadcast. There was the puffy, shifty eyed, looks-like-he's-been-on-a-bender, Jon, who talked about the state of the marriage. Then there was normal Jon, looking smiley and not-so-puffy in a light blue polo, talking about the kids. Definitely footage and interviews done before shit hitting the fan, and after.

And Puffy Jon's demeanor and body language didn't exactly convince me that he hadn't cheated. In fact, quite the opposite. Sorry. I know Kate is a bitch, but I just can't muster one iota of sympathy for Jon, and I won't jump on the bash Kate bandwagon. She's going to have to provide for her family now that the Gutless Wonder has checked out. The kids are beautiful, happy, friendly and so far oblivious to the drama. Obviously, they did something right in all this. Something that should be acknowledged instead of constantly bashed.

VOR said...

I haven't posted in awhile, but maybe posting will give me some accountability.

I always say that no one else can tell what is really going on in a marriage except the people in the marriage. It certainly has held true for me when family members went through marital problems. I can't see how anyone can know what's going on in Kate and Jon's marriage except Kate and Jon.

I found it very upsetting to watch last night's episode. The tension between the two seemed so strong. I think they should turn off the cameras - it's wrong to show this family's upheaval to the public. I've never said that before as I have supported J+K's decision to do what they think is best. I fail to see how this is best for anyone.

I do not want to participate in this family's difficulties, even as just a viewer. It feels unethical. Yet, can it be unethical to watch TV? I hope I can restrain my rubbernecking tendencies and not watch this train wreck anymore.

I wish them both the best in repairing their relationship and their family.

Guinevere said...

No one is more to blame for this situation than Jon and Kate. They both share fault and one is not more at fault than the other. I disagree. The media attention ramped up hugely with the cheating scandal. Before that, there were a few dull stories in the Enquirer. There were no paparazzi camped out to get pics of J&K. They were not on the cover of every tabloid every week.

J&K both have responsibility for their marriage and the problems in it. I can't say from the outside how that responsibility should be divided. I can say that I think Jon is much more responsible for the clusterfuck that has occurred in the past month.

Neither of them claim to like the media attention yet both of them want the toys and perks that come along with it. You can't have your cake and eat it too.I think that they could have continued with the show and not had so much strife coming from the outside if Jon hadn't made the mistakes he made and a bunch of people with nothing better to do hadn't tried to bring Kate down. I don't think we can know about whether there still would've been internal strife. It's hard to say. There are a lot of reasons to believe that the marriage would be in trouble either way. But some of the stuff that has happened didn't *have* to happen, and saying it did lets the people responsible off of the hook for their bad behavior.

It's one thing to say paparazzi are an inevitable byproduct of extreme fame. But I don’t agree that the famous person is responsible for the behavior of the paparazzi. People who choose to go into that line of work are responsible for their own behavior.

Personally (and maybe I'm jaded because of what I do) I'd rather be piss poor, homeless and panhandling then lose the cohesiveness of my family.You're assuming that it's an either/or situation, and it's not. You could be poor, homeless AND have a miserable family.

Besides, I think when one has children to take care of, the decision to be poor takes on different dimensions. I can't imagine any responsible mother choosing to be poor, homeless and panhandling. THAT would seem very selfish to me.

Im just going to say what I think: Jon appeared to be under the influence to me. Kate was clearly, at times, putting on a show for the cameras. I think they both genuinely love their kids. I think Kate has genuinely lost touch with her kids. The mommy playing with the babies left the building.I think if Kate was putting on a show, it was for the greater good. I thought she was honest in her interviews. I thought she was "on" at the party, and I commend her for that - better that than being sullen and bitchy like she was at last year's cupcake-decorating celebration. I'm not sure what you mean about Kate having lost touch with her kids, because she seemed very loving toward them last night.

I also think that, at this point, there isn't a therapist in the world who can help them. Why? Because they don't want help.That's not clear to me. My impression is that Jon just doesn't want to deal with it and is reverting to his little-boy-in-trouble persona. Kate does want things to get better, I think, but I think she is very sure that she's right. Others have mentioned that she wasn't talking about the effect of all this on the kids, and I think that's because she believes it isn't affecting them. I think once Kate gets an idea in her head it's very hard to make her see things differently.

Kate clearly sees Jon as the problem. I think he IS responsible for the recent media storm. But of course they are both responsible for the problems in their marriage. I don't think it's about Kate bitching at Jon, because it didn't seem that that bothered him for the first couple of years of the show (and he bitched at her too, though less). I think it's about her need to control everything and his unwillingness to take responsibility for anything. She needs to compromise but I think he first needs to let her know what he wants her to compromise ON. I don't think he's done that.

Nicole said...

I think if they ever truly asked the kids what they wanted, their lives private and daddy and mommy as they used to be OR daddy going his way, seeing him sometimes, mommy going her way, generally being raised by a not-a-nanny, the kids would want Jon at home and mommy out of the spotlight. I think they, the kids, would like to be out of the spotlight, too, with nobody following them, that they could be dirty and wear nonmatching outfits, that there would be no sad mommy and daddy faces.

I know that face the two of them had, that sad, sad face, Kate and Jon, because when I went through a divorce that really broke both our hearts I saw that face in the mirror for a long, long time.

If they could just quit the show and live off of what they've made and let Jon go back to work at something I think the family could really come back together. I hope it is not too late. Sometimes words spoken can not be taken back.

MoreCowbell said...

A Nissan Nismo is a phallic symbol, a penis mobile? Actually, it kindof makes sense to have a small car for short errands. It isn't like it's a Porsche. That is about as ridiculing as Jon's balls in Kate's purse.If the rumors are true and Jon bought that car on his own without even asking his wife, then car was not a practical purchase or something that was needed to run "errands." Under normal circumstances, it wouldn't be so bad. "Daddy needs a toy. He works hard and he deserves it." So, then he gets a motorcycle, boat or hot rod. That's what most family men do. But, considering what's going on now, he just looks like a player buying a swanky car as his marriage crumbles so that he can impress women (and feed his own ego).

Leah said...

It seems to me that Jon's suffering from some real sexism and jealousy.

Jon doesn't like being forced into a stay-at-home dad role? How do you think Kate felt when she was forced to leave her job when she was pregnant and after the sextuplets' birth? I remember reading in her book about how envious she always felt watching Jon go off to work every day when she was stuck inside the house literally for weeks on end. Now the tides are turned, but Jon can't handle it.

If he hates being a SAHD, he could always go back to school, get a job, volunteer, etc. But I really don't think that's it. I think it's hard for him to watch his wife be so successful and the "provider".

Anya said...

Well, I think there have been a lot of very thoughtful comments here. Almost to the point that I am not sure what to add. It's clear that people have mixed feelings about J&K, but people care about the family as a whole and the kids especially. There have been a minimum of truly nasty comments that we have had to reject and again I think that says something about the *type of person* who posts here compared to some other sites.

One thing I did notice was that Hannah had less camera time than some of the other sextuplets. There have been indications that she is more shy than some of her brothers and sisters, so perhaps Kate has instructed the crew to give her more space. I do think as the six get older, they are going to be more aware of the camera and more vocal about it. The boys still seem pretty oblivious. Alexis seems to enjoy the attention! (She was uber-cute about her little friend Braedon).



Leah said...
If he hates being a SAHD, he could always go back to school, get a job, volunteer, etc. But I really don't think that's it. I think it's hard for him to watch his wife be so successful and the "provider".


Leah, perhaps you are right - maybe it really is an ego thing. I know Kate mentioned in the People magazine article that she suggested Jon go back to school. I thought that was an excellent suggestion. Personally, I would jump at such an opportunity in a heartbeat.

Giving him some compassion, it's possible there is some depression that is paralyzing him a bit.

I am going to echo what many others have said - counseling is needed - probably for the whole family. Off-camera, of course. They need to deal with their new normal. Whether or not J&K are able to come back together as a couple remains to be seen, but they need to learn how to function as an effective parenting team for the sake of their children.

Depressed Dad said...

massmom,

It's nice to know I'm not the only one who thinks those things. For what it's worth, thank you.

tintin said...

Critics pan the season premier.

http://wonderwall.msn.com/tv/critics-pan-season-5-premiere-of-jon---kate-plus-8-1515413.story?GT1=28135

At this point, I have to admit, I agree with all the sentiments expressed in the article.

Suffice it to say that I don't agree with the choices Kate (and Jon) is/are making, but respect the fact that it's their lives and it's their choices...I feel like the kids are getting the short end of the stick though.

I am sincerely hoping this is the last season.

bigsis88 said...

Guinevere,

Best. Post. Ever. :-)

I think Jon wants Kate to take charge when it suits him and then complain when it doesn't. Kate can't force him to do the show, and no one is forcing him to spend the money that comes along with it. I agree with OP who noted that for all Jon bitches about the paparazzi and not wanting to do the show he's certainly not objecting to the material or status perks. I would add to that that Jon hasn't worked toward anything that could ease the family's dependence on the show for income (someone mentioned Kate suggesting that he go back to school in the People article). His whining about the show sounds stupid since he hasn't come up with a Plan B.

themrs said...

i have one more question :) did they show the part where cara is crying and kate is making a face? you know, the picture that was all over? what was really going on there? i know things can go down alot different then they may appear in a picture!

Peek-a-boo said...

Everything going on with Jon and Kate makes me really sad.

One thing that sort of bothered me--when Kate said that parents of multiples have 3x the divorce rate.

It feels like she's saying this is some how from the stress having multiples and, really, it seems like that has relatively little to do with it.

If/when the kids see this, I can't help but think they'll internalize that comment as "this is our fault" which is of course a child's tendency anyhow. That makes me extra sad.

Linda said...

I've always thought that Ks faults are more obvious and glaring.

Js faults are more subtle, more passive but no less damaging to their relationship.

AAP said...

Peek-a-boo -

One thing that sort of bothered me--when Kate said that parents of multiples have 3x the divorce rate.

It feels like she's saying this is some how from the stress having multiples and, really, it seems like that has relatively little to do with it.
I think what Kate said about the divorce rate is true. My friend has triplets and belongs of a mother of multiples group - there are a lot of fathers who feel neglected with that many babies, and go out and have affairs because their wives don't give them attention they need anymore. Several people, my friend included, have had this happen to them.

Momof2 said...

Peek-a-boo...I agree with your post. It seems as if Kate is accepting that having multiples is a reason for their troubles and maybe not what else is going on within their marriage.

I'm sure the stats she quoted are factual but there is a LOT more going on that could've contributed to their strife.

A Mom-ynous said...

I'm cathcing up here so that I can get a feel for what to expect in watching the episode (we were on vacation).

I am reserving my comments and opinions on the situation mostly until I watch the show.

However, this statement bothered me:

"I think if they ever truly asked the kids what they wanted, their lives private and daddy and mommy as they used to be OR daddy going his way, seeing him sometimes, mommy going her way, generally being raised by a not-a-nanny, the kids would want Jon at home and mommy out of the spotlight."

I won't even offer an opinion.

Just a question: Is this something you do with your children day in and day out? Ask their opinions of the career choices you or your spouse have made? Are you ready to change jobs at the drop of a hat when your child is dissatisfied with the schedule?


And on a separate note: For the love of Pete, what am i doing wrong with the HTML?

I put the "carrots" around the "b" both before and after, I tried only one...it is not letting me post it b/c the "Tag is not closed" I have no idea what that means.

A Mom-ynous said...

" Kate is not forced to go across country to make money, she does. People are responsible for their actions and the only victims in this are the children."


I gotta say that I am a bit put off by any comments that refer to the child of a working parent as a victim.

I remember career day when I was in school and there were many kinds of jobs--fire fighters, bank tellers, anchor woman (I think that is what sparked my career choices)--jobs of all kinds.

I even remember being told that when we grow up, we can be whatever we want to be.

I have to say that not once did I ever hear that a child is a "victim" of a parents career choice.

I am commenting solely on the book signings/travel.

Honestly--it is petty to continue referring to her as evil for doing this and the children as "victims".

And to infer that her "career choice" was the cause of Jon's infidelity and thus her children are victims of both actions--is quite naive of the subject of infidelity.

Children do not have to stop our career dreams. Careers can begin and end at any point in our lives whether or not there are children present.

I think it is dishonest to hold anyone in contempt for a career choice.

Just b/c folks make choices that you would not, doesn't make it a poor choice or the wrong choice, nor does it make their children automatically a victim.

Am I the ONLY one who remembers career day in elementary school?

Mary Twin Mom said...

Perhaps when Kate was saying she had to plan the party all alone it was just that they used to plan these things together. I don't think she was whining. It's not about the "help", it's about the mom and dad doing something that should be a happy moment for a family. Maybe she was missing that. I have been thinking about the show a bit today and I can see where Jon looked as if he had been drinking in some of the interviews. It struck me that much of this has come about due to his frat boy behavior. Kate is Kate. I can't fault her for being angry and I applaud her for saying she is staying right there, doing her job for her kids. It seemed to me that she was really saying "he left or he took off to sow some oats he thinks he may have missed but I'm not budging. I'm going to continue for my kids."

I don't remember papparazzi before this. People gawking, but I never saw pictures on tabloids.

People DO get through stuff like this so I'm not going to say they are done. She's pissed, as would I be. I think she came off very well last night. I truly felt for her and I believe she was being brutally honest. I saw a different Kate. She admitted she has been hard on Jon for 10 years. I hope they go into counseling and hash it out. I think those kids deserve that. As far as people saying they won't watch, I disagree. I think we have come this far with the family and I would like to know how they work it out and what happens. They opened their doors to us all and this is part of their reality, is it not? It's clear that Kate didn't see this coming although she mentions that they had been talking a lot BEFORE the tabloid partying sh*t hit the fan. Seems to me she was hit between the eyes when she thought they were working on some problems.

I don't know. I think Jon's demeanor is one of a guilty, bad boy who knows he was wrong and created a really bad situation for his family. He looked like a kicked dog last night. I didn't have much pity for him but I did feel sad for them as a family.

By the way, I noticed there is another Mary here so I added twin mom to my name.

Theresa said...

bigsis88 said...
Guinevere,

Best. Post. Ever. :-)

I think Jon wants Kate to take charge when it suits him and then complain when it doesn't. Kate can't force him to do the show, and no one is forcing him to spend the money that comes along with it. I agree with OP who noted that for all Jon bitches about the paparazzi and not wanting to do the show he's certainly not objecting to the material or status perks. I would add to that that Jon hasn't worked toward anything that could ease the family's dependence on the show for income (someone mentioned Kate suggesting that he go back to school in the People article). His whining about the show sounds stupid since he hasn't come up with a Plan B.

May 26, 2009 12:53 PM
ITA Big Sis! Best post ever Guin! I also think you hit on some great points Bigsis.


Linda said...
The whole thing is sad.

Part of me identifies with Jon and part of me thinks that he is such a big whiner.

I remember how hard it was being a stay-at-home parent when the kids were young. My husband worked incredibly long hours and often I was alone with the kids for what seemed like days at a time. I felt trapped. I felt alone. I felt like my world had gotten smaller.

But I had made a promise. And there were times that this promise was the only thing that kept us together.

May 25, 2009 6:40 PM
Excellent post too Linda. I wish Jon could read it and learn from it.

Jon definitely has something going on. It's a shame to watch him throw his marriage away in front of millions. I seriously hope that this is just TLC milking this situation (although I think that is really wrong too) and in real life they are in marriage counseling and that he realizes how his behavior on tv now (and the poor choices he made) is going to affect the kids when they google him.

I am tired of reading about him saying he married young, blah blah blah. Guess what buddy, you chose that. Be man and be responsible for your family and step up and help your wife keep the family together. Quit haning out with a younger crowd (the 23 year old thing) and focus on your journey as a husband and father, guided by your faith. Focus on your wife. He's got to stop whining and grow up. In the People article Kate told him this is the time for him to do what he wants...go back to school, volunteer at the kids' school, etc. and he chose not to do anything yet. He's got to make his own identity and worth. So maybe it's his own IT business or something with computers he can do from home and still be a SAHD.

I also think TLC really is focusing on the media attention (the rag mags)of this couple and their problems too much that it's only added to it just for ratings. Keep the marriage stuff private and stop making it the focus of the show.

Hopefully within the next few weeks, we can see a positive resolution playing out on the show....more love between the two (hopefully with proper counseling).

The two really need to step back, realize their love for each other and in God and work on repairing their relationship.

Kay said...

I have been thinking about this.Don't know if J&K are producing this season, but either way, why would he (if he is producing) or the actual producers film him when he seemed to be speaking funny. I thought he was slurring his words and I only saw a minute on the news.Don't want to speculate but why film him in that condition.Reminded me of Anna Nicole.

Nancy said...

themrs,
No they didn't show Cara's meltdown on the episode. I find it kind of funny that those at other sites who made such a big deal about TLC showing these kids' meltdowns are now doing what they say TLC shouldn't do. Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Guinevere said...

Thanks, bigsis!

It feels like she's saying this is some how from the stress having multiples and, really, it seems like that has relatively little to do with it. I didn't think she was necessarily saying that, but I also don't think that we can assume that having the multiples has little to do with the problems J&K are having now. It's all conjecture, but I think there are a number of factors. I think maybe they each do find the stress of so many kids overwhelming, and the ways in which each of them deals with that contributes to the strain between them. That's not to say that the kids are at fault, because of course they aren't.

Just a question: Is this something you do with your children day in and day out? Ask their opinions of the career choices you or your spouse have made? Are you ready to change jobs at the drop of a hat when your child is dissatisfied with the schedule?I agree with this. I think we've gone over it before - people seem to have expectations that J&K will let their kids have much more of a say in important life decisions than it seems any reasonable person would do (and likely more than the posters themselves would do, with their own kids).

BTW, I think what you may be doing wrong on the bolding is not having a slash at the end. The tags should be like this (without the spaces:

< b > to start bolding

< / b > to end bolding

nomoredrama said...

So the problem lies with Jon and the media and not in the fact that months ago, when tension was mounting in the marriage there was no effort on the part of either one to address it?
IMO, Jon's f-up was a symptom of the overall problem. His actions were the (immature, disgusting) actions of someone who is lost and not coping well.

I know for a fact that as early as September, his discontentment was a discussion point. If you go back to my post about the speaking engagement I went to, Jon was talking even then about how it was very hard for him to be at home and Kate kept telling him "it's a blessing, it's a blessing." He's been feeling this way for a long time, they both had a responsibility to hear the other out and not let it get to the point that it is now.

It is more than clear (I could cite at least 5 articles to back this up) that Kate is content and Jon is not. A reporter from People labeled this as a "fundamental problem." I couldn't agree more. It was a problem that was brewing long before the tabloid scandal. So while I will concede that the tabloid attention/Jon's gallivanting is not helping matters and is painful, it is not the cause of the problem nor is it the reason for the discord.

think that they could have continued with the show and not had so much strife coming from the outside if Jon hadn't made the mistakes he made and a bunch of people with nothing better to do hadn't tried to bring Kate down.Without strife is relative concept. Their marriage was full of strife anyway. Maybe if Jon sat down, shut up and did exactly what Kate told him without questioning her or expressing his discontent then maybe things woudn't have changed and there would be no issues. Somehow I doubt that though. Not with 2 people like Jon and Kate. would be fine.

'm not sure what you mean abr out Kate having lost touch with her kids, because she seemed very loving toward them last night. When a mother makes a statement to the effect of "my kid called me the babysitter's name" there is an issue of connection. When she's home for a weekend by herself with the kids and feels the need to remind the audience over and over how she is alone without Jon and how exhausted she is...connection problem. When the kids talk to her at home and she's clearly got a "go away and leave me alone" attitude, that is losing touch. To Jon's credit (and it is hard to find things to credit him with these days), He's always home with kids alone without Kate. She does it for 2 days and can't stop whining. Yet for some reason, everyone wants to pat her on the back. If Kate were a man making those statements, women would want to hang her "You try doing it all the time, buddy."

She made sure to point out last night "At this point, he has help" as if she doesn't and didn't that weekend.

What rubs me the wrong way about that is that she has had help ALL ALONG. Ever since the tups were born, there have been volunteers, babysitters, nannys, even people to fold the laundry. She's never, ever done this alone. Yet, IMO she threw that out like a dagger (Kind of like, well he whined so much we had to get him help). Very hypocritical and disingenuous to me.

One more thing I wanted to clarify....when I said no therapist in the world could help them, what I mean was that since 1 (since most seem to at least agree that Jon doesn't want to work on things) partner does not want to work, there can't be movement. I do this type of work for a living. The family system cannnot be changed by a therapist, it can only be changed by the people in the relationship. If I didn't believe in therapy, it certainly wouldn't be my profession. It's just not a magic wand or a cure all. There is work associated with it. Unless the therapist is a magician, he/she can only work as hard as the family works. If it's not a priority to the family, it won't work.

.

Sarah said...

The episode was really sad, and really frustrating. I just want to look at them and ask if the fame is worth losing their family. I 100% believe that the show, and the fame is responsible for their marriage being in shambles.

I know a lot of people put the blame on Jon, but I really think he is a broken down man, that has lost his identity. Men get so much of their self-worth from their job. Jon quit to stay with the kids, and now Kate is gone for weeks at a time. If Kate "HAD" to work that much, I could understand, but she could do one speaking engagement a week at $30,000 a pop, and make $120,000 a year, on top of the revenue of the show. So I don't understand this "need" to be gone so often. I see it as greed. I'm sure the kids would rather have a mom at home, and two happy parents, then anything money could buy.

I started out loving the show. I loved the realness, and I loved the normalcy+8 kids. This however, is going too far. They said they were going to do the show as long as it worked for their family. It's not working anymore. They are unhappy, and the kids are suffering. I feel like too many people try to ignore that because they love the show. But like Kate said herself, there is a human behind that cover. In this case, there are 8 innocent children behind the camera.

If you really love the family, and love the kids, then your wish should be that they would stop all of this, and get back to the basics of loving their kids and *really* doing everything they do for them!

Theresa said...

So the problem lies with Jon and the media and not in the fact that months ago, when tension was mounting in the marriage there was no effort on the part of either one to address it?
IMO, Jon's f-up was a symptom of the overall problem. His actions were the (immature, disgusting) actions of someone who is lost and not coping well.
You're right Nomoredrama. They should've taken the steps with this long ago and in private. Off camera.

She made sure to point out last night "At this point, he has help" as if she doesn't and didn't that weekend.

I took this as the overall him staying home issue, not just last night's episode of the party.

What rubs me the wrong way about that is that she has had help ALL ALONG. Ever since the tups were born, there have been volunteers, babysitters, nannys, even people to fold the laundry. She's never, ever done this alone. Yet, IMO she threw that out like a dagger (Kind of like, well he whined so much we had to get him help). Very hypocritical and disingenuous to me.

I can see your point, but I also know that all along she never claimed to have done it all by herself either (and we saw that in the older epsisodes). I think her "throwing out that dagger" was actually her just saying, "we finally have a fulltime nanny to help out. This gives Jon more of the freedom to work on himself" (a business, etc). To me, in the last episode of last season and this premiere episode he comes across as a whiner. If he was having a problem with this last season (which I think he was just reacting to being caught with the 2am clubbing incident...his poor choices were exposed), then, they should've both pulled the plug on show and work on their relationship and family.

I think they're both at fault for letting their marriage get to this point, but I see her as more willing to work on it than he. His attitude last night was just so non-chalant and non-caring almost. Very immature.

The family system cannnot be changed by a therapist, it can only be changed by the people in the relationship. If I didn't believe in therapy, it certainly wouldn't be my profession. It's just not a magic wand or a cure all. There is work associated with it. Unless the therapist is a magician, he/she can only work as hard as the family works. If it's not a priority to the family, it won't work.Bingo! You're absolutely right Nomoredrama!

themrs said...

I would add to that that Jon hasn't worked toward anything that could ease the family's dependence on the show for income (someone mentioned Kate suggesting that he go back to school in the People article). His whining about the show sounds stupid since he hasn't come up with a Plan B. i disagree with this statement. how do we know if jon has come up with a plan b? maybe he had one months ago when he wanted to quit but kate wouldn't do it. as far as jon not doing anything to help the family not be dependant on the show, i don't think that's a fair statement either. he's caring for the kids. if kate was home with the kids while jon worked, would you say that kate is not contributing to the family? maybe he's wanted to go back to work but can't because kate is touring. truthfully, IMO their money making efforts are all joint other than the tour and it seems that they both just feel she's better at that. multiple blessings is authored by both of them. the second book is just pics of their kids with scriptures. they go on most talk shows and whatnot together and the show is a joint effort. this touring is really the first time we've seen kate working alone mostly while jon is at home. they've built this "brand" (for lack of a better word) together. so to say that kate did it all while he complained about it seems unfair to me. when jon used to work outside the home in the earlier shows, kate complained about him being gone and having to be home alone. i think many (myself included!) understood that sentiment and sympathized. why can jon not get the same? i guess my point is that as a fellow stay at home parent, i can sympathize with his frustration. it's hard sometimes.

Guinevere said...

So the problem lies with Jon and the media and not in the fact that months ago, when tension was mounting in the marriage there was no effort on the part of either one to address it?How do we know this?

I know for a fact that as early as September, his discontentment was a discussion point. If you go back to my post about the speaking engagement I went to, Jon was talking even then about how it was very hard for him to be at home and Kate kept telling him "it's a blessing, it's a blessing." He's been feeling this way for a long time, they both had a responsibility to hear the other out and not let it get to the point that it is now.According to Kate's comments to People, she did try to help him; she made many suggestions about things he could do to feel more useful.

So while I will concede that the tabloid attention/Jon's gallivanting is not helping matters and is painful, it is not the cause of the problem nor is it the reason for the discord.I only meant that it was the reason for the huge increase in negative attention they are getting. It's ironic to me that the first snafu on his part (the bar/frat party business) led to scrutiny that made Jon even more unhappy than he apparently already was, and that he seems to have reacted with further unwise behavior, which has only made things worse. His only response to the hole he seems to be in is to continue digging.

Without strife is relative concept. Their marriage was full of strife anyway. Maybe if Jon sat down, shut up and did exactly what Kate told him without questioning her or expressing his discontent then maybe things woudn't have changed and there would be no issues. Somehow I doubt that though. Not with 2 people like Jon and Kate.Again, I was referring to the external stuff. Though I don't agree with the implication that the strife is all caused by Jon not following orders. It seems to me that there must be some middle ground between "sitting down and shutting up" and "carousing in bars and possibly cheating on your wife".

When a mother makes a statement to the effect of "my kid called me the babysitter's name" there is an issue of connection.I've heard of many working mothers having this experience. I'm sure it's an "ouch" moment, but I don't think it means that Kate is no longer connected to her kids.

When the kids talk to her at home and she's clearly got a "go away and leave me alone" attitude, that is losing touch.All parents have those moments. I think these examples are overreaching.

He's always home with kids alone without Kate. She does it for 2 days and can't stop whining.I didn't think she couldn't stop whining. She did talk about planning the party alone. I wasn't sure how much of it was feeling stung that Jon seemed to run away the moment she got there (she did reference him seeming to want her gone at one point, which I would have to imagine would be hurtful). But the fact is, Kate has never been stoic. She's a complainer and she makes everything that she does sound incredibly hard. I can see that being irritating to people. But I don't see it as more than simply an irritating personality trait.

One more thing I wanted to clarify....when I said no therapist in the world could help them, what I mean was that since 1 (since most seem to at least agree that Jon doesn't want to work on things) partner does not want to work, there can't be movement.That was clear. My only response was that I don't know for sure that they are unwilling to do the work. What one or both people say in front of the camera at any given moment is not necessarily the sum total of how they feel about things. And while therapy is not a magic wand, I'd like to believe that people can go into it for the wrong reasons or with the wrong ideas (say, because of social pressure or with the idea that the other person is the problem) and still maybe get something out of it. There are no absolutes.

Smith said...

"Children do not have to stop our career dreams."

But in this case, the children ARE the "career."

Firefighters, bank tellers and anchor people don't go to work WITH their children. They won't lose their jobs if their kids are not willing to directly participate.

This situation is a little different, don't you think?

Anya said...

To Jon's credit (and it is hard to find things to credit him with these days), He's always home with kids alone without Kate.

I disagree. Kate was on a rather extensive book tour, but Jon is not always 'home alone' even when Kate was away.

Otherwise, how could he have found time to spend with Deanna?

The larger point is Kate's time away from the family was to promote a book that brought income to the family and didn't involve the children having to do anything. Jon's time away from the family seems entirely to satisfy his own pleasures - hanging out with friends, going to bars, etc.

I do feel for Jon. He is clearly very lost now, but he is the only one who can turn this around.

A Mom-ynous said...I gotta say that I am a bit put off by any comments that refer to the child of a working parent as a victim.
I agree. Many will say she "doesn't need" to be working. Well, everyone's entitled to their opinion , but in the end, Kate has to decide what she thinks is best for her family looking long-term and with the possibility of a divorce on the horizon.

Guinevere said...

i disagree with this statement. how do we know if jon has come up with a plan b? maybe he had one months ago when he wanted to quit but kate wouldn't do it.Jon's not a hostage. If he wanted to quit, then why was he on camera last night?

I don't *know* the facts here. But my guess is that this is a symptom of Jon not taking responsibility. If he wants to quit, he should quit. If he wants his kids not to be on the show, well, he has it in his power to take some steps in that direction. I just can't agree with blaming Kate for Jon's inaction, not without some evidence that would convince me she is somehow *forcing* him to do this.

maybe he's wanted to go back to work but can't because kate is touring.Well, again, Kate says she suggested a part-time job. It sounds like he did not go for that. If he wants to go to work full-time, he and Kate would need to work that out. I think that might be problematic at this point because their desire does seem to be to have a parent at home with the kids when the kids are at home. But Jon has a lot of options - the money they've made would give him options, I would think - and it *seems* as if the only thing he's chosen to do is act like a frat boy.

Now, there may be information that I'm not aware of that puts all this in a different light. I'm going on what I've seen of his behavior and what Kate has said about his behavior. I realize Kate may have her own agenda, but what she has said sounds plausible to me (unlike the blatherings of Kevin and Jodi), and Jon has not contradicted her.

themrs said...

I just can't agree with blaming Kate for Jon's inaction, not without some evidence that would convince me she is somehow *forcing* him to do this.i never blamed kate for that. i was simply responding to the comment that he can't complain because he didn't come up with a plan b. i was saying that we really don't know. how could he have decided months ago that he personally was not going to do the show but kate was- and still stay married? my point was that maybe he suggested several plan b's. its another one of those things we don't know and can't assume.

kelli said...

Sarah, I totally agree. Let's not forget the People article in which Kate stated she "loved" the cameras, etc. so she really enjoys her outings, which I found interesting because in last night's episode she said she was not always "fond" of her fans.

Kuromi said...

CincyMom: I, too, wondered if Mady and Cara were "stepping up" because they sense the strife between their parents. When someone in my family was about to get divorced, her kids--2.5 and 3.5 years old at the time--went out of their way to try to comfort her and say, "Mommy, don't be sad."

mkb77: I also laughed when I saw Jon's cake-less plate! Maybe I needed a laugh since almost everything else was so sad.

Saint said...

themrs,
Your last post was longish so I don't want to cut and paste the whole thing, but I agree with what you wrote. We don't know the dynamics between them regarding Jon's freedom to do something more satisfying to him than being the stay-at-home dad. No, Kate can't make him do or not do anything, but I can see how she might make it very difficult for him to choose anything other than being "the one parent who is always at home." Some people can make life very difficult for their spouses when things don't go their way. I've seen it. It is possible that Jon felt his options were to stay home or face a divorce. I don't know that but the possibility does exist.

I have no proof. But I do have some thing to justify my considering that possibility. Jon said that his role now was chosen for him, or something like that. It doesn't sound like they made a compromise, but that Jon was offered two options neither of which could satisfy.

Going out on a limb...
Does anyone else get the feeling that the job Jon wants is half of what Kate does? That he wants to help manage the family's engagements, schedules, etc. regarding the show and Kate has always done it?

Saint said...

Ooops! This thread updated while I was typing. I agree with themrs on her last two posts.

Kuromi said...

Everyone's blaming the show, and blaming Kate's career. But they aren't necessarily one and the same. Indeed, if "exploiting the children on national TV" WAS the real concern, I'd think people would be glad that Kate has a job that involves her, not the children: Writing books and then going on tours and junkets to promote them.

In fact, on the Today show a therapist-type person specifically said that the show shouldn't go on, for the sake of the kids. When the interviewer said that Kate said this was her living, the expert said, "There are other ways to make a living. She can write books!"

!

But I think certain people,wouldn't be happy until Kate had no kind of career at all. "We have to destroy the family to save the kids."

Momof2 said...

kelli said...

Sarah, I totally agree. Let's not forget the People article in which Kate stated she "loved" the cameras, etc. so she really enjoys her outings, which I found interesting because in last night's episode she said she was not always "fond" of her fans.

-----------------
...yes...didn't she say she found her fans to be annoying or irritating or something like that? NOW she appreciates them...um yea...because she realizes they may no longer be there as they were before...even the "naysayers". Seems like there was a lot of damage control IMHO

Momof2 said...

Kuromi said...

Everyone's blaming the show, and blaming Kate's career. But they aren't necessarily one and the same.

--------------
I beg to differ...they ARE one in the same...without the show Kate would not have the audience/notoriety for the book and without the public interest in the kids through the show she wouldn't have fodder for her 2 books. In Kate's own words "the show is our life and our life is the show".

Saint said...

Kuromi,
ITA about Kate's speaking/writing career. Less kids, more Kate = less exploitation (if it IS exploitation) + more privacy for the kids.

Nomoredrama,
I think that peole go to therapists for the wrong reasons all the time, with no expectation of changing, and a good therapist can help them make that first step which you're right, is necessary. I disagree that it is too late for therapy.

Also, it's no big deal that one of the kids called Kate the babysitter's name. I was a stay-at-home mom until my youngest was in third grade. I still rush home to be there when she comes through the door five minutes after me. Everyone of my chidlren called me by a teacher's name at one point (or more) accidentally. Kate mentioned it happened once, for the first time. It's too early for that to be a symptom of anything.

Quiltart said...

Guin, I thoroughly agree with everything you've said, especially the part about the media playing a large part in all the hoopla during the past few weeks. In addition, I also blame the larger hate blogs for adding to the drama. While they have been trying to feed whatever junk they could about the family to whoever will listen for the past year or so, Jon getting caught opened the doors to the tabloids and, IMHO, the larger hate blogs and Jodi and Kevin took advantage of this fact. So much for advocacy for the children. They have never wanted anything but to trash Kate, and they gave it their best, IMHO. I don't think it worked in the end though, as I am quite confident that Kate isn't going anywhere anytime soon! I was very impressed with her last night...

Florida Mom said...

I caved and watched it, too. IMO, neither one of them presented a very sympathetic figure.
I think Jon comes from divorced parents. Maybe he thinks it is not the end of the world for the kids.
He has behaved poorly. I wouldn't be surprised if Kate has behaved poorly, too. (not running around, but other issues).

I agree with nomoredrama--they each share blame.

I do question what the kids will say in years to come when they see a teary Kate talking about parents of multiples' divorce rate. I am the parent of a special needs child--80% divorce rate--I would never want to put that information in my child's head. Any marriage has stress. You have to look at each other and look in the mirror. Leave the kids out of it.

Linda said...

NMD -

Sadly, people pick sides when couples are divorcing.

I see both of them as having responsibility for where there relationship is and I'd bet that even without the show they'd also have marriage problems.

For instance, I've never seen J as terribly ambitious. I remember reading an article in which he admitted to being lost and without direction before he met K.

Essentially he was a person who needed to be given direction and K is a person who likes to direct.

My goodness - a match made in heaven.

That dynamic may have initially been appealing to them both, but after time I'm betting that both sides grow weary. He grows weary of being told what to do. She grows weary of being the person who has to do the telling.

That kind of dynamic would be very challenging to any relationship but that dynamic with the stress of raising two sets of multiples seems is a death knoll.

Show or no show.

I think that they'd be going through this if he were working in IT and she were working as a nurse. The show magnifies these problems, but the problem is not the show.

============

I never worked more than p/t when my kids were little. At least 4 times, my kids called me the names of their babysitters. I'm very connected to them and always have been. I don't think that this is indicative of K not being connected to her kids.

Kuromi said...

Momof2: It's true that the show propelled her to become an interesting-enough person that a significant portion of the population would buy her books.

Now, though, I think she can go on writing books and selling them, without having to appear on a daily show with her children. Sure, she'd have to travel to make promotional appearances, but that's no different than other parents whose jobs require frequent travel.

I would think people who opposed the show--and the resultant "exploitation" of the kids being filmed--would be glad of this. Imagine: Kate's kids maintain their privacy, and Kate makes the money to support them without their participation. I'd think that would be a child advocate's dream.

Of course, if one's objection is simply that they Hate Kate, then one is still going to gripe.

bigsis88 said...

Themrs,

I'm not saying that Jon doesn't contribute to the family as a SAHD. What I'm saying is that he is saying that he doesn't just want to stay at home, yet he isn't doing anything to change that. We don't know if a Plan B exists, but Kate wouldn't suggest he go back to school if he had already done so. Plus, his free time (as captured by the paparazzi) shows him hanging out with younger people doing leisure activities, not working, studying, etc. The reason I don't sympathize with him in particular (I sympathize with SAH parents in general who feel trapped) is that he hasn't demonstrated that he wants to use the time he spends at home bettering himself or his family; he wants to spend it hitting the slopes/clubs with 20-somethings.

Like I said, Kate can't force Jon to do anything, and his bitching makes him look weak IMO. If he wants changes, the adult thing to do is to make a plan and say so, not to sit and sulk passive-aggressively like a 4-year-old.

MrsRef said...

While it is admirable that J&K want to have one parent home with the kids, recent events indicate that this is not the case as Jon is out barhopping while Kate is away. In my opinion, it would be better for Jon to have a job outside the home that gives him a sense of fulfillment as opposed to the current situation of separation and/or divorce. Millions of kids go to babysitters everyday and are none the worse for it. It would have to be better than dragging their family drama thru People magazine and TLC.

Quiltart said...

So much for JoKe's and GWOP's boycott! The ratings appear to be in.

According to reports, the Jon and Kate Plus 8 season 5 premiere on May 25th 2009 achieved 9.8 million total viewers and 4.3 million viewers in the Women 18-49 demographic - TLC's best ratings ever!

bigsis88 said...

Grammar issue: In my comment above (5:47PM) I meant that Jon is shown doing leisure activities instead of working, studying, etc. What I wrote might be confusing. :-)

Momof2 said...

Kuromi said...

Momof2: It's true that the show propelled her to become an interesting-enough person that a significant portion of the population would buy her books.

Now, though, I think she can go on writing books and selling them, without having to appear on a daily show with her children. Sure, she'd have to travel to make promotional appearances, but that's no different than other parents whose jobs require frequent travel.
.....

....true and I think that would be a good option for her since she appears to enjoy it. If she can keep the 2 lives separate then her family will def. benefit and maybe they can get back to some sort of "normalcy".....I do feel that she realizes the $$$ that they are bringing in now with the show cannot be matched. To close up shop now and then take some time to write a tell all to be released down the road might be to her advantage. There's just too much saturation right now.

Guinevere said...

...yes...didn't she say she found her fans to be annoying or irritating or something like that? NOW she appreciates them...um yea...because she realizes they may no longer be there as they were before...even the "naysayers". Seems like there was a lot of damage control IMHOI don't see how that's an example of damage control. She's actually being honest about something she had previously felt that she doesn't feel anymore. She volunteered the information.

It's not surprising to me that Kate has found fans annoying in the past. Just like it's not surprising to me that she isn't a supermom and doesn't do everything by herself; she has had help. I have watched the show enough to "know" Kate, as much as you can through a TV screen. I still don't understand the posters who simultaneously complain about what a bitch she is on the show and then complain about how the show doesn't portray the "real" Kate, because it apparently makes her look too good. I think if one has watched the show more than a few times, they'd be aware that Kate is not the type to fall all over herself with gratitude about fans or anything else.

Florida Mom said...

Quiltart said--
TLC's best ratings ever!

Is that a good thing? We're all watching a marriage fall apart. YAY TLC.

I am guilty as the next--It's tacky and sad and I can't look away.

NannyofTwins said...

"While it is admirable that J&K want to have one parent home with the kids, recent events indicate that this is not the case as Jon is out barhopping while Kate is away." Are all of the mothers/parents here going to say that in all the years of being a parent you have never left the kids with a babysitter and gone out to a bar for the night? NEVER? I think that while Jon may have made poor decisions we also have to remember that this is not something we have any proof of occuring on a daily or even weekly basis.



I just find it hard to understand why people are so quick to judge him for doing something that I'm sure almost every parent has also done (in regards to going out to a bar and leaving your child(ren) with a babysitter).

Just because they are on television doesn't mean they are any better than the average mother/father or that they should have to be these perfect stepford parents. Nobody is perfect, everybody makes mistakes J&K included.

kelli said...

Not only damage control but major back peddling especially since the publication of the article written last week about her speech in Michigan. That was major. Even the hosts were insulted. Alot of people have gone to see her and commented on her being "not friendly" to fans. She has never spoken of that before so the timing was suspicious but not surprising. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone in their right mind would pick a woman on TV and call her a "supermom" based on what little they see of her each week. How easily influenced some humans are. There is no Supermom in existence, just like there is no Superman, and anyone who would think that, IMHO, is Superstupid.

CaliMommy said...

Wow, the ratings are huge! I am so happy for TLC. Almost 10 million viewers! That should make the kids happy and make their lives easier in light of what is happening to their family!

Saint said...

bigsis88,
You are right about Jon's choices to hang out with a younger crowd. It's stupid. I see a weak person when I look at Jon too, but that's part of why he gets my sympathy (they both did last night.) You don't yell at a deaf person or tell a blind person to "look closer." There has to be an accomodation. Jon (I think) is weak and needs some help standing up for himself. (I think) Kate needs help listening and giving up control. Both have their imperfections. Therapy can help both. It really can. They'll be better, stronger people for it.

I'm hopeful this week.

Quiltart said...

GDNNOP has made the NY TIMES!http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/27/arts/television/27tlc.html?hpw

AAP said...

If he wanted to quit, then why was he on camera last night? Because he was contractually obligated to? Because right now, it's his "job", and even though he's going through a very public hard time, which was already difficult for him last season, he did what he was suppose to do vs. what he wanted to do? Maybe we are looking at the more responsible Jon?

rain88 said...

I would think people who opposed the show--and the resultant "exploitation" of the kids being filmed--would be glad of this. Imagine: Kate's kids maintain their privacy, and Kate makes the money to support them without their participation. I'd think that would be a child advocate's dream.I believe many people would be extremely happy if this happened.

rain88 said...

According to reports, the Jon and Kate Plus 8 season 5 premiere on May 25th 2009 achieved 9.8 million total viewers and 4.3 million viewers in the Women 18-49 demographic - TLC's best ratings ever!Jon and Kate must be so proud! Imagine so many people watching the implosion of their marriage.

Theresa said...

Like I said, Kate can't force Jon to do anything, and his bitching makes him look weak IMO. If he wants changes, the adult thing to do is to make a plan and say so, not to sit and sulk passive-aggressively like a 4-year-old.

May 26, 2009 5:47 PM
Exactly! Right on Bigsis!

nomoredrama said...

I'm not talking just about one incident of the kids calling Kate the babysitter's name. I just used a recent example from the most recent episode. I don't think it is a reach when the last 5 episodes (at least) have been the same way. Another episode that it really sticks out in is the moving episode. Take last nights episode and compare it to, say, the South Carolina trip. There is a marked difference in her interaction with the kids.

I don't know how to describe in words the changes I see with my eyes. Personally, I think that is where some of Jon's resentment comes in. Kate is hailed as mother of the year by the media and perhaps (I don't know the inner workings of his mind) he feels like he is the one with more of a connection and bond. Last night Kate said something to the effect of "Everything I do,I do for my kids" and Jon said "I'm here with them every day." Telling to me, gives insight into the way he sees things.

Quiltart said...

I don't know how to describe in words the changes I see with my eyes. Personally, I think that is where some of Jon's resentment comes in. Kate is hailed as mother of the year by the media and perhaps (I don't know the inner workings of his mind) he feels like he is the one with more of a connection and bond. Last night Kate said something to the effect of "Everything I do,I do for my kids" and Jon said "I'm here with them every day." Telling to me, gives insight into the way he sees things.But, IMHO, where Kate does not get any credit is the fact that she was the one at home with the kids from the time the twins were born until the sextuplets were just over 4....

Nancy said...

Linda,
I think what you said was spot on about their relationship.

Kikibee said...

This thread is moving so fast, people keep posting all my thoughts.

I wish we could stage an intervention with J&K (I guess that's a different network, though). It's too bad the "caring" relatives Jon went to with his problems couldn't see past their issues with Kate, and encourage him to do whatever is necessary to resolve his marital difficulties. (I know, maybe they did, and since that didn't work they were forced to reveal to US magazine that Kate isn't "getting any" from Jon.)

I just don't see either one of them willingly giving up their new lifestyle. I would hate to see them lose a lot of their money in a nasty divorce, then resort to tell-all books or appearing on some "I used to be a celebrity" show to get it back.

Either work on the marriage, or work out a civil divorce relationship. Just don't let things get any worse.

Anya said...

Quiltart said...
GDNNOP has made the NY TIMES!http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/27/arts/television/27tlc.html?hpw


Quiltart, I have never heard of this publication.

I was *really* hoping we might get a mention in Philadelphia Magazine, however. Darn.

Seriously, thanks for passing this on! :-)

sadey said...

I DO THINK THIS BLOG IS PRETTY IMPARTIAL TO JON AND KATE. HOWEVER, I must say that I think no offense to noone, and not excusing Jon for any wrong doing, for many months we did see tension,animosity, and much distaste building. Kate has made her millions. She will actually not likely have to worry like most of us about paying her mortgage. How much is ever enough for her. I do understand that you have to make sure that your family is financially stable during these times, but at what price...Kate admitted she was never very friendly to those who simply were her fans. Why a change of mind??
Kate now loves the fame that comes with the fortune. Celebrity NOT!!!!She can still continue with her endevours, doors have opened for her to possibly do things without exposing her children. Kate plus eight could never be. Jon as much as you may all disagree has contributed to the success of that show. Ladies how many of your husbands including mine, have done what Jon has done when he was working and sending the girls off to school. All these issues that have arisen, could have been handled by Kate a little more tastefully. Kate loves the media and its sad that maybe possibly she has not been so clean and pristin as everyone makes her out to be. Maybe down the line little dirty secrets may come out and the skeletons will come tumbling out. So becareful who you think is the most obvious too blame....The show is over,the children need their time to themselves. Divorce is what will happen Kate has made her discion (sorry for the mispelling) already.

MoreCowbell said...

I think Jon wants Kate to take charge when it suits him and then complain when it doesn't. Kate can't force him to do the show, and no one is forcing him to spend the money that comes along with it. I agree with OP who noted that for all Jon bitches about the paparazzi and not wanting to do the show he's certainly not objecting to the material or status perks. I would add to that that Jon hasn't worked toward anything that could ease the family's dependence on the show for income (someone mentioned Kate suggesting that he go back to school in the People article). His whining about the show sounds stupid since he hasn't come up with a Plan B.LOVE THIS. Bravo.

Speaking of "perks," I just saw a photo of Jon on a pretty nice motorcycle. Did he get one of those, as well? Yeah, he doesn't seem to resent the toys he can buy with the money that the show and his wife's books are hauling in. Plus, the toys he does get are clearly just for him, not something you can haul your 8 kids around in (or on).

I guess I'd have more sympathy for the guy if he was trying to come up with a better plan, such as finishing his degree so that he CAN provide for his family if the show shuts down (a degree would enable him to make more money than he was making when he did work), instead of buying sports cars and motorcycles and partying in bars (and perhaps sleeping with) with 20-somethings.

It's just sad that Kate takes the brunt of the abuse (That US Magazine cover "Mommy to Monster" with a photo of a pregnant Kate next to a glamazon Kate, is a new low) when Jon is clearly acting like horny frat boy....and then whining about his life. Maybe People (US Magazine's main competition) should have a photo of pre-hair-plug Jon next to a photo of post-hair plug Jon with the headline "Man Up or Shut Up."

Linda said...

I just stopped by Julie's blog and she says Kevin and Jodi are going to be on the Early Show on CBS during the 7:30 half hour.

(Shakes head)

nomoredrama said...

How do we know this?Well the fact that the marriage is in dire straights and there has been no resolution points to the fact that nothing has been done to address the situation. To me that is the same as asking "how do you know that person passed out drunk over there isn't serious about their drug/alcohol treatment." The proof is in the situation. I guess the way I see it is if had been addressed, a resolution (whatever that may be....but a resolution is something that both parties are comfortable with) would have occured. Kate's People interview never indicated Jon agreeing to any of these suggestions. Thus, the problem remained unaddressed. Instead it festered because of a stalemate. That would have been the time to pull in the therapist or seek third party opinion. I know you'll probably ask how I know that they didn't and I don't. I firmly believe, however, that if they had Kate would make sure the whole world knew what steps she has taken to help things. Just my opinion, of course.

Regarding therapy:
Of course people go into therapy for the wrong reasons all of the time. Sometimes it can be very helpful but only if that person is open to being helped. I've terminated treatment with people (either parents, teens or couples) who refused to fully engage and work. Unfortunately, you can only take people as far as they are willing to go. This is the very reason many therapists burn out but I digress.

One more thing,I don't necessarily think it's realistic to say Jon could have gotten out or quit. He'd have to quit his life because the show is their life. I agree with Saint. I think in his mind, the options were do the show or get a divorce. What he did with Deanna was very cowardly. He made terrible choices but I don't think just quitting individually was a viable option at that time.

Anya: When I said Jon was "alone" with the kids, I didn't mean alone with out help. He was alone without Kate and with the nannys. Kate was alone without Jon and with the nannys. She did it for 2 days, he does it most days.

I agree with you that Jon's time away is to fulfill his own needs. I disagree that Kate's time away is not for similar reasons. Yes she happens to be making a lot of money doing what she's doing but what she is doing is as much for herself as it is for the kids. She's doing what SHE wants. He's doing what HE wants. Both are selfish, IMO.

Rebecca said...

Seeing the pictures of Kate coming out of Petsmart today on justjared.com make me so sad. She doesn't look like her happy go-lucky self. The death of a marriage is so sad for all the people involved.

MoreCowbell said...

GDNNOP has made the NY TIMES!http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/27/arts/television/27tlc.html?hpwShhhhhhhh!

You hear that?

That's the sounds of heads exploding at the "other blog."

New York TIMES, y'all.

High fives all around.

SamanthaNC said...

He was alone without Kate and with the nannys. Kate was alone without Jon and with the nannys. She did it for 2 days, he does it most days. If it were reversed and it was Jon traveling for work- we wouldnt be hearing so much about it. Ahh gender roles, gotta love it.

MoreCowbell said...

I just stopped by Julie's blog and she says Kevin and Jodi are going to be on the Early Show on CBS during the 7:30 half hour.

(Shakes head)
But....but....they're just doing it for the CHILDREN.....so what if they make a buck or two at the same time, right?

Want me to believe that Kevin and Jodi are doing this purely out of concern for the kids? Then they should donate whatever fee that that Internet tabloid site gave them for selling out their relatives, to the Gosselin kid's favorite charity, St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital.

Appearing on CBS This Morning and Z-list Internet tabloid sites just contributes to the media firestorm surrounding the family. Is it "helping the children?" No, they're helping fan the flames. Jodi and Kevin (or "JOKE" as someone cleverly posted yesterday) are basically on the same level as the paparazzi that now stalks the family. They're endangering the children, not helping them. You KNOW it's just going the escalate and Jodi and Kevin are contributing to that. When will they stop? When some photographer runs the van with Kate and the kids in it, off the road trying to get a "money shot?" God knows, Kate's not the best driver. I don't want to imagine what could happen in that situation.

On the flip side:

Karla, you are a saint. You're still around, helping with those kids since the first episodes, and you haven't said a thing to the media (and you KNOW she's probably had offers!). God bless you!

GFan said...

Oh How cool! They quoted me in the NY Times article!My closest shot at fame...don't worry, I'm not gonna let it go to my head =)

GFan said...

This is from Julie's post:
I am disgusted that they would show such a tender moment between Jon and his daughter just to pull at the viewer's heartstrings. That conversation should have been a private moment between a father and daughter. Each person who watched last night stole something from the children that they'll never get back. They deserve respect, privacy and security. Their own parents have taken that away from them, but we can give it back by letting TLC know that we won't watch it any longer. Am I the only one that thinks this is a little dramatic? We stole from the children by watching the show? How did we know they would show something too personal (in Julie's opinion), maybe we could close our eyes if it gets to personal next time?? Sorry for the sarcasim,I'm just not sure what else to say about such a strange statement.

Momof2 said...

Rebecca said...

Seeing the pictures of Kate coming out of Petsmart today on justjared.com make me so sad. She doesn't look like her happy go-lucky self. The death of a marriage is so sad for all the people involved.
...........

....but really how could she smile after she complained about the "P people" last night. Wonder how she would feel if they just went away?

Linda said...

In this article about Kate firing 40 nurses, they reference a nurse . . .

http://wmmo.com/blogs/entertainment_news/2009/05/jon-kate-kate-fires-40-staffer.html

I wonder if this person is a source for a lot of GWOPs inside information.

Jordyn said...

I am disgusted that they would show such a tender moment between Jon and his daughter just to pull at the viewer's heartstrings. That conversation should have been a private moment between a father and daughter. Each person who watched last night stole something from the children that they'll never get back. They deserve respect, privacy and security. Their own parents have taken that away from them, but we can give it back by letting TLC know that we won't watch it any longer.

************

Well, Julie, how about telling your sister and brother-in-law to stop cashing in on the kids? Tell them to cancel their GMA appearance and all appearances and stop talking trash to the tabloids.

Cheryl ANN said...

Florida Mom said...
I caved and watched it, too. IMO, neither one of them presented a very sympathetic figure.
I think Jon comes from divorced parents. Maybe he thinks it is not the end of the world for the kids.
He has behaved poorly. I wouldn't be surprised if Kate has behaved poorly, too. (not running around, but other issues).

I agree with nomoredrama--they each share blame.

I do question what the kids will say in years to come when they see a teary Kate talking about parents of multiples' divorce rate. I am the parent of a special needs child--80% divorce rate--I would never want to put that information in my child's head. Any marriage has stress. You have to look at each other and look in the mirror. Leave the kids out of it.


GREAT POST! We are the parents of 2 special needs children and we would never put that thought in either of their heads either.

Add me as one who sincerely hopes the end is near.

nomoredrama said...

If it were reversed and it was Jon traveling for work- we wouldnt be hearing so much about it. Ahh gender roles, gotta love it.I can say with 100% convinction and honesty that if the situation were reversed I would feel the EXACT same way.

My opposition to what is going on has NOTHING to do with Kate being a woman. It has everything to do with making her family a priority. Plenty of men have lost their families for the exact same reason. Think about the divorce rates for police officers, military, athletes and, yes, celebrities. What do all of these jobs have in common? A lot of time away from home and family. It's extremely difficult and when one partner says "ENOUGH," to ignore that is wrong, IMO.

In certain situations, getting out right away is not an option (military) but I've heard many stories of people pulling the plug on a career for the sake of family. I've never heard one of those people say they regret giving up their careers and wish they would have sacrificed their families instead.

Sure, if you are on top, you'll miss the view but at the end of the day, I think deep down most people would miss their family and loved ones more.

AAP said...

If it were reversed and it was Jon traveling for work- we wouldnt be hearing so much about it. If Kate was the one saying essentially that the show was ruining her life, and she's out drinking and making bad judgement calls, I would be the first one to say that Jon should be at home focusing on his family's problems. Is the money worth it if in the process it destroys the family? If the show continues, how can they tell their children honestly that they tried everything they possibly could to try and fix their problems?

Ahh gender roles, gotta love it.Some working women who give up their careers to be SAHMs have identity crisis similiar to Jon. He might be reverting to his "little-boy-in-trouble persona" but I don't see any acknowledgement that what he is going through is just as valid as what any other mom would go through.

Anya said...

Samantha NC...Ahh gender roles, gotta love it.

Yes, thank you for bringing us back to a subject I think deserves more attention and really has larger implications for most of us than the future of the Gosselin marriage.

I don't doubt those who say they would feel the same if the roles were reversed, e.g., NMD and AAP, but I honestly think you two represent more nuanced thinkers than is commonly found in the Gosselin blogging world. And let's not forget there are some women who have been at this from the beginning. They are NOW up in arms about Kate being away so much, but 11 months ago it was brushing the girl's hair in the kitchen, or the fact that she "bragged" about using organic products or that she sat on the cheap plastic chair too much, etc. etc. etc. In short, for many, she has never and will never be able to do anything right.

On another blog the other day, a poster respectfully called out another for calling Kate fat. The original poster replied back that she couldn't help it - "we just hate her so much."

Anya said...

A statement from J&K. Not much there, but I thought it was worth posting.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20281079,00.html

Kuromi said...

Linda, thanks for that link to the nurse interview. I read some of that earlier, and two things came to mind:

(1) In Multiple Blessings, Kate has a chapter talking about how hard it was to find competent night nurses. For example, one morning she reached into Alexis' diaper... and pulled out part of a candy bar! I don't want to think how livid I'd have been if I were Kate. I'm guessing some nurses got all offended that she dared relay this story. (I borrowed the book from the librar, so I can't look up exactly what Kate said or if she named names.)

(2) Somebody goes to the bathroom, doesn't wash their hands, walks through the house possibly touching things, and then finally washes in the kitchen sink? Ugh, that sounds like cross-contamination to me.

And to think, I originally thought KATE was the shrew :)

Guinevere said...

We don't know the dynamics between them regarding Jon's freedom to do something more satisfying to him than being the stay-at-home dad. No, Kate can't make him do or not do anything, but I can see how she might make it very difficult for him to choose anything other than being "the one parent who is always at home." Some people can make life very difficult for their spouses when things don't go their way. I've seen it. It is possible that Jon felt his options were to stay home or face a divorce. I don't know that but the possibility does exist. You may be right. I guess the way I see it is that in the past when we saw Kate dominate Jon, it did not seem like he was cowed or beaten down - it seemed more like a dynamic that they had both voluntarily entered into (and that's where my speculation about him not wanting to take responsibility comes in - my assumption is that he's getting something out of this unhealthy dynamic, too).

I know there are relationships where one partner really manipulates the other in a very conscious way into the role they want them in - I'm speaking of truly abusive relationships. I don't think that's how it went with J&K - I think they were both young and each sought out something that they perhaps unconsciously wanted, even if it wasn't the best or healthiest thing for them. So I don't think it's fair to give Jon a pass (not that that's what I think you are doing, Saint) for the role he's chosen to play, unless we also want to give Kate a pass for being controlling because she can't help it.

Florida Mom said...

IMO it has nothing to do with gender roles. My husband and I have taken turns staying home with the kids while the other worked whenever the need was there. It has to do with both of them being such whiners. Kate seems a lot happier with her life now that she doesn't have the day to day stuff to deal with. Jon seemed happier when he wasn't a stay at home dad. They said they started this show to document their lives for their kids because they were too busy to video now. Wonderful memories...neither one of us wanted to be the one stuck with you guys!
Again, it is not an issue of gender to me. It is an issue of maturity. They both seem to be sorely lacking in this department.

SamanthaNC said...

NoMoreDrama-

I should have been more clear. I bolded your comment not bc I was singling you out but bc I think in general thats the reason for the "she should be home" debate.

nomoredrama said...

my assumption is that he's getting something out of this unhealthy dynamic, too I couldn't agree more with this statement. Something was working for him for a lot of their marriage.

However, Jon seems like the type of person to hold back for a long time, get really angry and instead of talking about it, act rudely or belittle as well. He brought up the breathing incident last night. I remember what he said when it originally happened. He actually apologized. For breathing. (talk about stuffing your anger inside).

They've talked about how Jon is not good at expressing emotions and (this could be a Kate Gosselin exaggeration) but when asked when the couple talks, they said many times that they'd air things out quickly because the children were always around. They didn't seem to take time to really talk.

I woudln't necessarily label Kate manipulative in the relationship, more like self-centered. She didn't give a whole lot of though to Jon's feelings. She had to control and things had to be her way, always. Even when Jon could see something benefitting the kids (Think Crayola Factory). He wasn't always a bumbling idiot. He'd say things to her like "stop giving orders and play with your kids." If Kate could have gotten that message, dealt with her anxiety and stopped trying to organize, it might have decreased the pressuer in the household.

Now they are at the point where they've waited so long and there is so much anger and resentment. It will be difficult to salvage the relationship. I don't even know of a divorce between them could be amicable. They DO need help. Like I said before, it's a question of whether they are open to that help.

Saint said...

Guin,
I agree with your response. They seem to have entered into these roles, leader/follower, voluntarily, and it isn't abusive. But what happens when someone wants to change that dynamic? I think that may be happening here. How many years can you watch yourself be edited to look like your wife dominates you? I know Kate has expressed her love for Jon and called him her "rock." I've seen that. But I also know she is seen as being too bossy. I've seen it. My family has seen it. 100% of Gwop posters have seen it.

Yes, I do think Kate is hated because a bossy and ambitious woman is often not tolerated. She's attacked when men doing the same thing wouldn't be (thinking Martha Stewart, Hillary, Sarah Palin now.) Gentle and ambitious women don't get that hate (thinking Oprah now.) So I do see the gender element.

But I see what Florida Mom means, too. That relationship, between Kate and Jon, served their family very well at times. But if Kate is over-the-top, and Jon has had enough, he should have a chance to change the dynamic. I just get the feeling he doesn't know how. A good therapist can really work wonders instructing these two on how to handle this problem.

Jon doesn't get a pass from me either. Kate isn't responsible for the paparazzi like Jon is, but she did talk to People, keeping their story in the media. So did Jodi and Kevin whether they intended it or not. They added to it, especially because their video was dribbled out over days, keeping the news alive for the hiatus of the show.

Both the Gosselins seem to love their children very much. I remember seeing Jon's 30th birthday and thinking, "He sure has a lot to be proud of...eight kids before he's 30!" His response to his troubles was immature and infuriating. But, IMO, it's not a marriage-ender. I thought Kate seemed willing to work on the marriage. If so, she'll need to do some changing, too.

Rachel107 said...

In Jon's defense, (what?!? Did I say that?) I think the motorcycle is the one that Orange County Choppers made for them. I saw a photo on people.com that had Kate riding behind Paul Sr. on the chopper.

That's the only defending of either of them I will do today.

MarcyS said...

They really didn't tell us everything that's going on between them on the show. It certainly isn't all about affairs, real or imagined. It looks like Jon loathes the 'life in a fishbowl' they've ended up with, while Kate thrives on it, even if the paparazzi annoy her at times. Someone said this family cannot seem to handle the celebrity, and I agree: it's time for them to leave television. FOR THE KIDS. I always wondered if it was so great for kids to have their every move recorded for posterity anyway--how will they feel as teenagers when their potty training is on reruns? My kids would murder me!

I don't feel guilty about watching and caring about the Gosselins. I've been watching them since the beginning because I'm in love with those sextuplets. They are the most adorable kids. I'd hate to see Jon and Kate divorce because it'd be so, so hard for those kids to grow up like that. Sad to say, it looks like it's going in that direction. A tragedy.

DurhamDora said...

I just saw the Jodi and Kevin interview. I didn't have the sound on (I'm at work), but I saw their tilted "concerned" faces. I can actually understand that they're upset about not getting money for the show. If they'd just say, "Look, we're mad that Kate wouldn't allow us to get paid," I'd have an ounce of respect for them. But they seem to be hiding behind the usual GWOP argument of "We're doing this for the kids," and they are such hypocrites. They're traveling to do shows and giving interviews but then criticizing Jon and Kate for "exploiting" the children on television and in the media. They're Gosselin backwash, in my opinion. Anyone who is attempting to get attention from this (Jodi's sister, too, whatever her name is) is no better than Jon and Kate. Jon and Kate are a circus at this point, and Jodi and Kevin are adding to it. They are doing absolutely nothing positive. At least it looks like someone gave Jodi anti-frizz product for her hair. That's a low blow, I realize, but Jodi and Kevin can apparently take it if they're showing their mugs all over the place these days.

MomNYC said...

Kate said she never thought she would be on a tabloid magazine cover. But she clearly did a People interview with a posed cover shot with posed photos inside. She also gave them personal details of her life with Jon so she is really contradicting herself here.

Alicia said...

According to reports, the Jon and Kate Plus 8 season 5 premiere on May 25th 2009 achieved 9.8 million total viewers and 4.3 million viewers in the Women 18-49 demographic - TLC's best ratings ever!Jon and Kate must be so proud! Imagine so many people watching the implosion of their marriage.Let's give credit where credit is due. Take a bow Kevin, Jodi, Julie and GWOP! In an effort to get the show cancelled they managed to double the shows best ratings ever.

Now, you could say that this is just temporary and their efforts will get the show cancelled eventually. I would argue that the show always had an expiration date simply because all shows do. Even very popular shows grow stale and the audience disappears. Trading Spaces anyone?

The publicity generated by Kevin, Jodi, Julie and GWOP just extended this shows lifespan. All in the name of child advocacy. Nice job.

Saint said...

Gfan,
Congats on the NYTimes quote! I just read it. Your reaction is too funny.

Jordyn said...

On another blog the other day, a poster respectfully called out another for calling Kate fat. The original poster replied back that she couldn't help it - "we just hate her so much."

May 26, 2009 10:20 PM
******************

Those women are a disgrace to our gender.

Stop the Train Wreck now said...

Aunt Jodi gussed in her Ann Taylor Loft outfit on CBS this morning is no better than Kate Gosselin. I'm sorry but the second they sold out to Star and leaked about the post-nup, they stopped being advocates for those children. I'd like to see some evidence that they are lobbying officials and contacting CPS if they are so concerned about the children. I don't buy it. They are angry they are left out of the media blitz. They admit that they haven't talked to Jon and Kate in a year, but Jon goes to THEM to pour his heart out?

Something is not right here

erin said...

I am kind of disgusted by all this, I have to admit. I think both have made mistakes, and how they deal with it is there business. The pure hate some people have is amazing. The patient who said she hopes they get a divorce? A disgusting, ugly-souled woman. I can't imagine actually hoping anyone's life would be ruined. I see all this enough on a daily basis without having to use it as entertainment also.

Julie, I thought she wasn't going to watch? How did she know about the tender moment between father and daughter? Not watching doesn't solve the problem, you also have to stop obsessively blogging about them. Ah, the hypocracy.

As to the fired nurses: I have to admit, I'm terribly grossed out by the fact that a nurse went to the bathroom and then washed hands in the kitchen sink. I had coworkers (in food service) who used to do that and it always squicked me. When you have preemies (and 6 at that), I can imagine being extra cautious. Given that Kate is a little nuts about germs, not surprising--but also not unreasonable by anyone's definition.

caiteeinMA said...

Why can't people "hate" or "love" Kate? Why must all opinions be one way? Why do you care? If I say I hate the democratic party (not really) does that mean I have to go after all Democractic supporters? Why do that? I can't possibly change everyone to support the party of my choice so why bother and make myself look stupid and like a child who doesn't get her way. If you say you love Kate Gosselin on this blog, no one comes on here to challenge you, do they? Don't tell me you all think you are Pollyannas trying to rid the world of "hate" because you certainly promote it by going on the attack. That, IMHO, is worse than "hating." The world is not all vanilla. Sometimes the bloggers on here are like sharks swimming around sniffing for blood, always on the attack. I feel bad for all the swimmers! I don't see that on other blogs.

I have been reading this blog for awhile. I am doing my thesis on the impact of reality television on the american female viewpoint, especially the impact on women of the 21st Century and the non-baby boomers. I only use this blog and a similar named blog only because the letters of the blogs are so similar and easy to navigate, and, frankly, I don't have time to read all the other information out there.

Marianne said...

If you say you love Kate Gosselin on this blog, no one comes on here to challenge you, do they? Don't tell me you all think you are Pollyannas trying to rid the world of "hate" because you certainly promote it by going on the attack. That, IMHO, is worse than "hating." The world is not all vanilla. Sometimes the bloggers on here are like sharks swimming around sniffing for blood, always on the attack. I feel bad for all the swimmers! I don't see that on other blogs.

****************

First of all caiteeinMA, you're a bit biased yourself and it shows in this paragraph. If you're going to do a thesis, please properly research and prepare yourself and stop being lazy by only going to two blogs, otherwise, you're going to get a big fat F.

The blog that swims like sharks and attacks is Gosseelins Without Pity, or GWOP. There's a similar themed attacking blog, gdnop, which only attacks the posters on this blog, GDNNOP (for short).

I have been lurking on this blog for quite a while and I can tell you that attacks are not happening here. Go visit gosselinswithoutpity and you're only going to see attacks and childish behavior.

Rule of thumb, dont' come onto a site and attack its posters. Especially when that's what you're saying they do.

Fanny said...

That, IMHO, is worse than "hating." The world is not all vanilla. Sometimes the bloggers on here are like sharks swimming around sniffing for blood, always on the attack. I feel bad for all the swimmers! I don't see that on other blogs.You don't see that on other blogs? You mean the "other" similarly named blog, the only other blog you frequent? That, my dear, is because there have to actually be opposing viewpoints for anyone to be "attacked". Well, actually, I take that back. Just a few days ago there was an entire post on the "other" blog dedicated to one comment they recieved in Kate's defense. Why don't you mosey on over there, read the comments, and get back to me.

BTW, I'm sure they'd love that whole "the world isn't vanilla" speech. Perhaps that profound bit of insight will be of better use to them.

DurhamDora said...

I don't understand why people throw around "I'm doing my thesis on X, Y, and Z" and assume they automatically have some sort of credibility or extra-special knowledge about reality tv. Really, if you have to use your educational background to get noticed on a blog, I feel bad for you. I have to say, I think caiteeinMA has attempted to get noticed on the "other" board and has failed. Thus, attempting to attack posters on another board who don't share her viewpoint is guaranteed a few responses. Just a guess. I don't have a PhD in reality tv, so it's hard for me to say for sure. And, I've never heard of a thesis with just two sources. Good luck with that. Let us know how it goes.

Anya said...

CaiteeinMA said...I have been reading this blog for awhile. I am doing my thesis on the impact of reality television on the american female viewpoint, especially the impact on women of the 21st Century and the non-baby boomers.

First of all, I would love to see your finished thesis when it's done. I mean that sincerely. I think the topic you chose is very worthy of discussion.

Even though you claim to have read this blog for a while, you don't seem too familiar with the fact that we have been having far ranging discussions about "the impact of reality television on the american female viewpoint" for many many months.

One of the most interesting questions I have found in all this is why exactly some women "hate" Kate to the degree they do. They are certainly free to "hate" whomever they want to, but I am free to discuss it with others and try and understand it. And you are correct, some of us do judge others for the degree of their hatred for Kate. We know we are not going to convince anyone of our beliefs - so it isn't about changing anyone's mind. It is about speaking out against the most offensive parts of the Kate hate campaign. Calling Kate's supposed favorite child "fat" or wishing lice on her. Saying that you wish "Jon would go Chris Brown on Kate's a#%." Stuff like that. As a woman and a mother, I feel compelled to express my disgust at that type of language.

Momof2 said...

I find this blog to a welcome place to speak my mind. I am not Kate's biggest fan but I also don't think she's a child abuser or the devil...I find the comments on the blog very thought provoking and although I don't always share the same opinion- other's are very respectful to me. I am aware this is a fan sight and I try to be respectful as I was once a huge fan....but I also don't have the taste for blood that some do elsewhere. I think it's very commendable that my comments are posted and considered for discussion. We play like adults here...lol

caiteeinMA said...

Fanny, no I disagree with you. The other blog seems to delete the comment, not print it and then try to discredit the writer's opinion because it differs. Or, much worse, not print the comment, but respond to it. That is just cowardice.

Anya, I would never print or acknowledge the phrase "go Chris Brown..." as I am not sure what it means.

Marianne, I have never attacked any posters. I have always stated my opinions or agreed with other posters using their blog names, much like I am doing now.

The only people being attacked on the other board seem to be the stars of the reality show, not the people posting their opinions.

I think it is interesting that this blog works the opposite way, and Kate Gosselin is the only one NOT being attacked, while the bloggers are held to a different standard. I see it here way more than on the other blog, maybe because this one is so much smaller and has so few bloggers.

I don't have time to "mosey" too much and there is certainly too much out there even for me as I do have a real life! I cannot be chained to the internet 24/7.

I am almost finished my report anyway, so I do thank you for your help. I had no idea when I started that all this drama was going to develop in the lives of the Gosselins, so it has become really time consuming. Where they are headed is anybody's guess but I will not be following anymore. I am Gosselined out. Best to all.

TheOnlyDudeInHere said...

First time poster; I watch the show with my wife and have found it fascinating and horrifying from Day One. One of the posters above blamed Jodi, Kevin, and GWOP for "extending" the life of the show. Please...once you hand over the keys to your home, your marriage, and your kids' childhoods to a cable TV network, I'm not sure how you escape the blame for anything that happens.

There seems to be a "point of no return" with fame...an invisible line that, once crossed, causes you to lose all perspective on HOW famous you are, or how much of it is harmful to yourselves or your family. Since late 2006, the Gosselins have invited television crews into their homes and cameras pointed at their kids for at least 3 days to week. You can add to that the book tours, speaking promotions, and all the other publicity. To an extent, I would argue that they hired their own paparazzi to follow them around. Now that more people are interested, Jon & Kate are outraged that there are people photographing them and their kids that they can't control (or make a buck off of)? Doesn't something seem hypocritical about that?

erin said...

How stupid is it that I'm entirely more annoyed by the fact that I put "there" instead of "their" in my first post. I have court at 4 and then I'm free for the afternoon and typos like that make it clear that I'm getting sloppy already (and that was hours ago)!

In response to Caitee, I think that recognizing the issue and trying to stop it are two different things. I honestly don't care who dislikes whom as long as it doesn't rise to the level of, say, genocide to make an extreme example. But to be honest, there have been people at GWOP for ages that have made comments not just that they don't like Kate, but that if they ever saw her out they would cut off her hair, scream at her, physically assault her and other similar things. They are bullies and akin to a lynch mob--that I have a problem with.

All this being said, I think that both Jon and Kate have made mistakes (Jon telling Kate to "pull the stick out," Kate telling Jon to stop breathing, both simultaneously telling Joel to stop breathing). None of this makes me want to assault either one or kidnap the kids (all things that have been suggested).

Fanny said...

Fanny, no I disagree with you. The other blog seems to delete the comment, not print it and then try to discredit the writer's opinion because it differs. Or, much worse, not print the comment, but respond to it. That is just cowardice.So, should the mods have deleted your comment instead of posting it? Are they better or worse for having acknowledged you? Your comment was meant to be an insult to the other posters here(A for calling us childish and B)for thinking we'd believe you were actually here doing research*)Maybe you should talk it out in your head a little before you type so you don't come off like such a hypocrite in your next comment.

Just a suggestion.


*Amended to include believing "Dude" just wandered in here.

Tyra said...

TheOnlyDudeInHere:

You've got a point about Kate and Jon opening a Pandora's box. But I can believe they did not envision what it has turned into. It's been said that Kate did not want anyone but them to make money off of the show. That's no longer in her control, and I truly can believe that she is surprised by that. I do think that Kate and Jon need to look at their choices and responsibility, but I don't think that frees Kevin and Jodi and Julie from the responsibility of examining what they have done.

The thing that most fascinates me is the question of responsibility in relation to the viewing audience. We are consumers, and we have been consuming the on-screen life of this family, and now it's spilling off of the screen, and we're still consuming all of it. Why? Especially if the idea of the lives of the Gosselin children being a commodity is offensive to so many, why is our consumption expanding to the STAR and other gossip media? Isn't that a more horrifying venue than TLC?

Kuromi said...

MomNYC: People is not a tabloid. It's an ethical (though usually fluffy) magazine that uses named sources who are not paid to speak.

Tabloids are publications that pay people to speak--indeed, pay them to specifically say something conducive to juicy gossip--and that use anonymous sources much more often than named sources.

Alicia said...

One of the posters above blamed Jodi, Kevin, and GWOP for "extending" the life of the show. Please...once you hand over the keys to your home, your marriage, and your kids' childhoods to a cable TV network, I'm not sure how you escape the blame for anything that happens.That was me and let me explain. This was a moderately successful basic cable tv show. Successful by TLC standards but certainly not a top rated show considering all cable and network shows.

Even very successful, popular shows will eventually lose their audience. The show becomes routine, stale. The audience gets bored and maybe a new show gets their attention.

The Gosselin kids are growing up, going to school. The show would have to find ways to keep the audience interested. Kevin, Jodi, Julie and GWOP gave them a way to do that.

Of course they couldn't have dug up dirt if there wasn't any dirt to begin with, but they claim their intent is to stop the show for the sake of the children. It seems their actions in bringing mainstream attention to the show has had the opposite effect.

And by giving the show a different angle (Jon and Kate's marriage instead of another trip to the zoo) they may have given it a broader audience and much longer shelf life.

Kuromi said...

Tyra, I agree with you that Kate and Jon probably never envisioned things would escalate to such a level. Who could have?

I mean, I don't think any other "reality" shows about non-celebrities have turned into this kind of circus. I'm not talking about Anna Nicole/Jessica & Nick/etc. etc. I mean families like the Roloffs. Sure, the Rs garner some negative chatter on the Internet, but nothing as concerted as what's happened with the Gs.

Maybe it's because the kids(tups as well as twins) are so cute and have such uniquely-defined personalities. Maybe it's because Kate is so strong that she's just going to get backlash--more from women than men, since women historically (maybe even genetically) are always crueler to each other. (Remember that book "Woman's Inhumanity To Woman"?)

So the question isn't, "How can they claim they didn't know this would happen?" It's, "How will they deal with this for the financial as well as emotional benefit of the entire family." And we all have opinions on that.

Saint said...

I only use this blog and a similar named blog only because the letters of the blogs are so similar and easy to navigate, and, frankly, I don't have time to read all the other information out there.That has to be the funniest line of the week, for me. This poster is not real, I am sure of it.

Dude,
It does seem a little hypocritical to have a camera crew follow you around, then object to paparazzi cameras. I guess the difference is that one set of cameras has their permission, the other is looking for dirt. Still...

Tyra said...

Alicia, I completely agree with your analysis of the way the anti-Gosselin factions have helped the show reach the next level of success.

Maybe it's because Kate is so strong that she's just going to get backlash--more from women than men, since women historically (maybe even genetically) are always crueler to each other. (Remember that book "Woman's Inhumanity To Woman"?)I've actually never heard of it; I'll have to check it out. I absolutely agree with your point about women's responses to Kate. Anybody want to make it the subject of their dissertation? ;-)

KaitiebugandBrayBray'smommy said...

GWOP started out with good intentions protecting the kids they are so hateful to Kate right now it is turning my stomach in knots. She is hateful. She is awefull at times but she is going through A LOT more then any of us can understand cut her some slack even if it is just enough to hang herself with.

bigsis88 said...

Anybody want to make it the subject of their dissertation?Ooh Tyra, pick me! And I will write a 75-page paper using 2 sources with unverified subjects and I'm sure my advisor will be so proud! ;-)

endtheblogs! said...

I Just submitted a post on GWOP imploring them to end their blog. I believe that the mods, there and here, had good intentions originally.
My contention, however, is that no matter what the mood or theme of the gosselins blogs are, they all contribute to the longevity of the show and the demise of the kids.
I believe this blog now reflects a concensus that the show should end, so I am asking this blog as well; shut it down.

Gracefully ending this blog, and GWOP, will go a long way in taking the heat of the lights away from those kids and solidifying the good intentions of both blogs moderators.

Tyra said...

bigsis88:

Heh...

A doctorate in Rumor Mongering?

A PhD in Bitch-y Women's Studies?

Just as Concerned said...

This blog does not contribute to that. You are on the correct path in getting rid of GWOP. Send your message to Moon's, Lisak, Peri, and Mully and her Kate Hate gang on Imperfect Parent.

Those are the offenders you need to reach.

endtheblogs! said...

Thanks to the moderators for posting my remark. As of a minute ago, GWOP has not posted it and I'm not holding my breath. I have to differ with you Justasconcerned, both blogs have become cesspools for information related to the family. The older Gosselin daughters are now of the age where they will be asked in school to research subjects on the internet, googling. Like millions of other kids, they will, if they already hav'nt, google their own name, and the 2 sites will come up. Yes, there will also be thousands of other articles, but at the 2 sites they will have an extensive collection of gossip, truths, and unfortunate circumstances presented to them by legions of strangers.
I would also ask you to consider that GWOP does not have a monopoly in spreading hate and venom. Just because its directed at the haters, doesnt make it right.

Moderators, Do the right thing!

Kari said...

I would also ask you to consider that GWOP does not have a monopoly in spreading hate and venom. Just because its directed at the haters, doesnt make it right.
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The are the #1 hate blog on the internet concerning the Gosselins. I can't believe you actually wrote that. What RUBBISH!

Moderators, please consider not putting through edittheblogs! comments anymore. They're just posting to provoke.

thank you.

Momof3plus2 said...

This blog needs to exist so that the family (children in the future) know that not everyone in the world is evil and hateful towards their family. At least this site allows both sides to share their opinions. If you are not hating on Kate your post will not be on GWOP. They are true examples of women that live to destroy other women. Usually the people throwing the stones are the ones who should be receiving. Everyone has opinions but people should really step back and look at how they are acting. This hate that is our there is just so wrong. This same people complain about how evil Kate is but they are acting just as evil.

Marianne said...

you're preaching to the choir endtheblogs. We've said for years how the G kids will google their name and up comes the most hateful of hateblogs, GWOP.

Momof3plus2 said...

Wow I wrote that comment fast and I am sorry for the typos. That is what I get for multi-tasking.

Saint said...

endtheblogs,
Thank you for your comment. I think it's worth considering.

This blog has been a good place for fans and non-fans alike to discuss the issues without the hate-filled posts that appear elsewhere. It's not perfectly fair and balanced, but it's the best there is. This is the blog that put a little perspective on PennMommy and her lies. Those of us who would like to see the show end have been able to also post positive developments on the Gosselin show, and post criticisms without associating with, well, with GWOP.

Is it better to have a blog here that lets comments such as yours and mine go through? Is it better to have a place where more than one perspective is posted? Where the Gosselin parents aren't trashed in every post? Or is it enough already and just adding to a burden on those kids?

We have discussed this once before...whether blogging about the Gosselins is harming the Gosselins?

I'm glad I am not moderating!

LiveAndLetLive said...

I've seen several posts on the extension of this episode to 75 minutes. I think it was just editing so that they can very specifically address the current controversies directly, but then cut those portions out in the future and have a regular 60 minute episode that doesn't go into as much detail about it. Beyond this week, I don't expect to see this longer version air again.

And I guess I can't live up to my screen name today, because I agree with all who said Jon really needs to grow up. Or perhaps get some help if he's dealing with a depression of some sort. Marraiges succeed or fail because of both parties. I'm not always sure Jon and Kate bring out the best in each other and I think they'be both contributed to where they find themselves.

But Jon had many, many other options for what he could have done to address his unhappiness. He could have found many other outlets to focus his energy and add more fulfillment ot his time as a stay-at-home-dad. And the youngest are already in kindergarten to it was a matter of months before they would be at school all day; why wasn't he starting to set something up for himself instead of wallowing?

If he suggested counseling and Kate refused, he could have threatened (and the followed through upon) filing separation papers to get her attention and force it.

But going out partying like a frat boy and hanging out with another woman (and at THEIR house perhaps even with the children home with the babysitter - shudder) and (alledgedly) having an affair...?

Stupid. Reckless. Cowardly. Imamature. Wrong. He has a lot of explaining to do. And I think the toughest questions will come from his kids someday, if Mady and Cara aren't asking some already.

So sad.

Jordyn said...

Jon needs to talk with Bob again and get into his mind about setting up a home business. But then again, that would require ambition, which it appears Jon is seriously lacking these days.

A Mom-ynous said...

Okay--I watched the episode.

My only comments....

Kate looks like she is in survival/protection mode. She has been hurt deeply and her emotions show this.

Jon looks like he is in CYA mode. He doesn't look remorseful--thus he isn't too defensive. But he doesn't look "hurt" either. He seems to be spoonfeeding what he thinks we want to hear.

I feel bad for the two of them. The wall between them at the birthday party was obvious.

I had one with my husband as well--but he is in treatment and the wall has disappeared. It can go up at any moment, but as long as he is working on the problem I will keep it down.

Call me sappy--but I just want them to collapse into each others arms and apologize and reconcile. It is very weird and it in no way reflects and opinion that both are at fault or that neither are at fault or whatever.

And I didn't think Kate behaved like a bitch or in anyway was selfish in this episode.

And she is working--I salute her. There is no need for such animosity towards her work schedule just b/c it isn't a job you would choose to do. The funny thing--women got the right to vote and after WWII began to see that they could hold jobs after all.

ORCALOVER said...

I think they're both at fault for letting their marriage get to this point, but I see her as more willing to work on it than he. His attitude last night was just so non-chalant and non-caring almost. Very immature.
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I know many people have said that Jon came across as immature. What I saw was a sad and depressed man, possibly who has been drinking too much. I never saw him as "not-caring". If he has fallen out of love with Kate, that is just the way it is. He seemed very committed to doing what they have to do as the parent's of the kids who will probably divorce, such as coming together for bdays etc. Can you blame him for falling out of love with Kate? I think he will care about her on some level forever, but I can honestly not say the same for Kate. I see her as the kind of divorced woman who will bad-mouth her ex to the kids, she does it already.

This is my opinion but I think something like a nervous breakdown will likely affect Kate. I don't think she will hold up.

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