I would have pointed out that the two words MEAN THE EXACT SAME THING, but I saved my typing fingers the trouble, knowing my comment would never be posted.
I agree - take it up with Jon and Kate they're the ones who make the distinction.
When I click on the link provided: http://z15.invisionfree.com/Reality_TV_Unlocked/index.php?act=Reg&CODE=00
I get a picture of J&K with Kate shown with a green face. I have the feeling this "sets the tone" for the vicious nature of the site.
Nina, you might consider moving this to a front page entry. I think casual lurkers and posters at GWoP deserve to know what the people who run their site are really about. I know there are decent people who visit the site.
Thanks to Nina and FGF for providing the additional information. Unlike the GWoP'ers who supposedly wanted us to eat crow after Jodi released her video, I don't take pleasure in finding out this additional information. Yes, it confirms what I already suspected about the motives of the moderators and frequent posters at GWoP, but the ugliness of it all makes me a bit sad. Maybe I'm just emotional tonight!
BTW, the reference to Jon having an affair with his fitness instructor made it to the pages of GWoP itself. That wasn't hidden on the secret board like the "Fatty Arbuckle" comment.....
The picture was changed for our benefit, I believe. Manda has been monitoring this blog for almost 2 hours now and she is feeding back everything we are writing.
It's laughable!!!! They are so pissed that they are caught...Poor Manda...Sorry your little farce has been uncovered.
Nina, did you see the one with the kids saying "Save me, Ninabell! You're my only hope"
I see you're TRUE Colors shining through..and, frankly, it makes me green with nausea!!
FGF, thanks again for providing for providing us the proof...Now that they've been outed...I guess they will have to resort to what they know best, insults, name-calling and stupidity. LMAO!!!!!
Well NinaBell, I am now officially jealous of you. Not only do you probably have your own thread on their message board, but you are referred to in a caption?
Aunt Jodi's confessional did not have the desired effect???? There's over 200 posts on this website in less than a day - I would not be surprised if that's a record (I haven't even checked GWOP).
The people who defend Jodi are simply observing how much nicer she comes across than Kate. She comes across as kind and a good mother every episode I've seen her, while Kate, well...much less (in fact I don't think I've made it through one whole episode without me thinking 'wow, I'm glad I'm a much better mother'). Of course maybe neither one of them is like what they are portrayed on TV, but then why would Kate choose to come off as a terrible wife, impatient mother and all around unkind person?
Nina, I believe you are referring to Paul Peterson?
Me thinks he already did a little digging and found out he wantd NO part of these folks agenda, but it wouldn't hurt to send him the pictures to make sure he knows who he is dealing with. (I am pretty sure, he is still being bombarded with their emails - poor guy).
Aunt Jodi's confessional did not have the desired effect???? There's over 200 posts on this website in less than a day
It didn't have the desired effect in that the majority of posters here seem not to have suddenly "seen the light" and changed our views about J&K, Bitter Julie or Jodi. A lot of us simply stated that it confirmed that Jodi supported her sister's blogging. Big deal. The *truth* of the matter remains elusive (and subjective) and I doubt any of us will ever know the whole story. And that's for the best - it's not our business anyway.
Also, I take issue with your statement that "Kate is a terrible wife, impatient mother and all around unkind person?" I simply disagree with these broad charaterizations. Remember, we have seen 20x the film of Kate at both her good and bad moments than we have seen of St. Jodi. Yes, Jodi does appear to be a more relaxed easy-going person, but again, we are basing this on maybe 30 minutes of combined film. Kate and Jodi appear to be very different people, but I have personally witnessed sides of Kate that I generally like. I may be in the minority here, but that's my opinion. I think she does some things as a mother extremely well and has other areas she needs to work at. Just like 99.9% of ALL mothers!
I won't comment on J&K's marriage. I think a lot of their "back and forth" is hyped up by the producers anyway and I generally shy away from analyzing other people's marriages. Those of us on the outside usually have no clue!
Did anyone ever discuss why they were so pissed at the Gosselins?
Were they people who once donated to them? Were they people who were from their old church?
I guess that I'm wondering what motivates virutal strangers to go after a tv family?
Oh no. I don't believe any of them had donated "love offerings" or anything like that.
Reality TV Unlocked was born when the mods at TWoP (Television Without Pity) began to seriously moderate the J&K+8 thread on their board. It was shut down regularly as a "time out" because the posts and bickering were getting out of hand (something that should surprise no one, I'm sure). When the TWoP mods would eventually open the thread back up, people would behave at first, but then it would always disintegrate and the bannings would start. It was at TWoP where the first mentions of calling CPS on the Gosselins were brought up and the name of Cara and Mady's school was also posted (and subsequently taken down as soon as a mod saw it, The mods smacked down posters for doing that as "creepy and stalkerish." Gee, you think?). Finally, after awhile, the TWoP mods began to realize that one thread was taking too much time to babysit. If you've seen TWoP, they have an insane amount of threads to monitor and the J&K thread had become the "problem child" out of the entire board. Finally, they just closed the J&K thread for good. Subsequent attempts by GWoPPERS and posters from RTVU to start new ones have been unsuccessful. They are closed immediately and the poster banned.
While all this was happening, a TWoP poster began sending out PMs to some people who posted on TWoP about the Gosselins, saying that she created a new, private message board and to come and join. At first the board was light fun with just snarky commentary on the show. It wasn't until the real militant hate posters from TWoP joined that the board began to change. It took on a gang mentality which swelled. There was a movement to "enlighten the masses" but stopped short of wanting to open the message board for public scrutiny (anyone could see who the real crazies were if they did that). So, they started a blog based on situations being discussed on the private board. GWoP was born from that. Posters that were not overtly negative towards the Gosselins (like me) either left when things got creepy or were "converted" and joined the hate.
wow... i think they have shown their true colors. the whole thing reeks of high school drama. seriously, someone has been monitoring this for 2 hours? must be nice to have that sort of time! at 10:30 pm I was in safeway buying apples for my daughters school project tomorrow.
Nina, don't delete. Archive and make sure any posting information you receive with the nastiness is saved along with them. Might come in handy someday and cost some stalkers their ISP privileges.
I'm still flabbergasted at this whole secret message board stuff...
I wonder, does Julie really know who she has aligned herself with? If she does, does Jodi too? I would hate to think that they are a part of the "mean girls".
Do you think that they know which former fan of their blog you are?
Seeing as to how this blog has bugged the crap out of them, I'm sure they've tried to figure it out. The thing is, if they had stopped the name calling and sniping, I probably never would have elaborated. I mean, I mentioned a secret message board way before today, but never posted the name of it until now. After being called a liar and the snide comments they left here, I said, "screw it."
Do I still have access? Dunno. Once I left, I never went back and have no desire to.
they will lose their gravy train if they start responding and i believe that at least a majority of it is true.
as far as jodi, i believe that things were already so bad with the way she had been treated by jon and kate, there wasn't any hope left. she say her sister was being abused by vile comments, and she stood beside her sister.
I think Nina Bell and Fgf are just being upset cause the where told to take a hike from GWoP. I think they are just looking for some attention now that there friends told them to leave the secret fort. I don't think they where members personally. If you were really members of GWoP who where you there, I'm sure GWoP can confirm if you were members if you tell us your screen names? Right now you are just blowing hot air in my ear ladies, once you bashed and now you cheer. Would like to know the truth?
I agree - take it up with Jon and Kate they're the ones who make the distinction.
How so? I didn't see the distinction made by J&K, I saw it made by GWoPpers who insisted that Kate was weaseling by using "untruth" rather than "lie". Maybe I missed another instance of it?
I think this is all ridiculous.. the small minority of vocal crazies at GWoP and their equally nutty pro-Gosselin counterparts. Most of us just watch (or watched) the show to be entertained by the kids, not Kate's latest neuroses. The bickering between different sects of the fandom has gotten way out of hand - fighting personal attacks with personal attacks gets us nowhere.
Aunt Jodi's confessional did not have the desired effect???? There's over 200 posts on this website in less than a day - I would not be surprised if that's a record (I haven't even checked GWOP).
I'll just echo what others have said and state that I doubt the GWoPpers' mission is to cause more hits on this blog. They want to convert people to their "cause", and it ain't gonna happen. Any more than the revelation of the "secret board" will make any of the anti-Gosselin crowd rethink their positions. I think we're all pretty entrenched at this point. My position, anyway, has never been based on believing that Kate's a saint and that everyone who says bad things about her are liars. I simply object to the ugliness and the creepiness that runs rampant at GWoP.
The people who defend Jodi are simply observing how much nicer she comes across than Kate. She comes across as kind and a good mother every episode I've seen her, while Kate, well...much less (in fact I don't think I've made it through one whole episode without me thinking 'wow, I'm glad I'm a much better mother').
And so modest, too!
Seriously, part of my issue has always been the way St. Jodi is canonized while Kate is demonized, and the way that they are juxtaposed as mothers.
It's okay (or it should be okay) for two different women to have two different personalities. Kate doesn't have to be labeled a bitch or a terrible mother or an awful wife just because she doesn't come off as "sweet" as St. Jodi does. I really think there is a healthy heaping of misogyny in the comparison - St. Jodi is so traditionally feminine (long hair and soft voice) whereas Kate has sensible short hair and is opinionated and bossy. I understand people having issues with Kate, I really do. She doesn't bother me, usually, but I can see why she'd get on some people's nerves (I can't see why they would then feel the need to stalk her and try to ruin her life, but that's another subject). But specifically comparing Kate to St. Jodi and finding Kate wanting sets my teeth on edge. It's like, if you aren't as sweet and quiet and simpy as St. Jodi, you shouldn't even THINK about having kids. I like Jodi fine, her rather tacky video and apparent bitchy gossipy streak notwithstanding - actually, the bitchy gossipy streak at least humanizes her a bit! But I don't agree with holding her up as the ne plus ultra of motherhood.
The very fact that you feel the need to compare your parenting with Kate's says to me that you've bought into this competitive mothering bullshit that is foisted on women.
I do not now or did I ever say I was a member of GWoP.I only recently stumbled acrossed that site when someone e-mailed the URL to me. Please read more carefully before you comment.
Why Shelly? So they can terrorize fgf the way they've done with so many others?
I don't think you need proof. I think you KNOW these private boards exist and you're just looking for the identity of the person who blabbed the "family's" secrets.
I find it telling that the picture on that blog of the horse with a Kate wig on has been replaced, but too many trusted people on this site saw it. It's a little late for the damage control.
From reading about Manda being on this site for hours monitoring it, to the pics they removed from the secret board, to Shellys attempt at getting FGF to reveal her name I havent laughed this much online in ages. What a great way to start another Monday.
Wow, I sure missed the excitement this past weekend with the airing of Jodi's video and the "out" of that secret board message. Pretty craaaaazy!
I have to say I question the motive in airing Jodi's video. What exactly does she wish to acoomplish? Frankly, its disgusting and sad! Whatever goes on between Jodi and the Gosselins is none of our business. I prefer for them to sort out their issues privately than putting on the show for us internet viewers.
Why do the opinions of internet users matter so much to Jodi and Julie? I am trying to understand what they are trying to achieve because it is NOT in the best interests of children to air their grievances online! To open the avenues for the cyberstalkers to harrass the Gosselins family even further. The egging on and sickingly syrupy comments in support of Jodi makes me really sick. And they all say they are the adovcates of children? Bitch, please!
So ridiculous that its laughable. Ugh.....drama llamas strike again!
So Julie hasn't posted a thing on GWoP since she posted that video. Maybe since Jodi has "spoken" there is no longer a reason to post there and maybe she's done with GWoP.
How would anyone know that someone was monitoring the site? Does anyone honestly think that someone would care that much? I mean, seriously. As far as private boards go, I don't really get the big deal about that. I've been on private boards before, they're just a bunch of people who have a close relationship and don't feel that others would fit in. It seems like some people wish they could be invited.
boys4me Well since you asked - Several weeks ago someone who made in known that she is a member of the GWoP society was unhappy with something I posted. She continued to send harassing comments on this blog until 3 am in the morning. She was the last man standing, so I was able to get her IP address off of the sitemeter and statcounter and now have it labeled with her name. When she is on, I am alerted. Consequently she went on to harass another poster and took her identity on IMP and MySpace and that poster was notified by IMP what was going on. She suspected that it was the same person I was having problems with and I shared the information I had with IMP and low and behold it was the same IP address. That person has continued her harassment of this site and myself.
I have had my fill of a lot of this and you can rest assured I do not want to be invited into that society.
See, in general conversation, when 2 people have an opposing point of view, they may debate back and forth, questioning how the other came to their conclusions. This is the nature of disagreement.
This is why I virtually stopped commenting here. I really don't wish to "debate" every point. I like more of a discussion format. That going point by point was getting on my nerves. I can see how some find it uncomfortable as I do. So I read occasionally but you can count me in the generally silent ones as I don't care for the pounced on feeling.
Pardon me if I missed the point, but why is it a huge thing that people have a private board? I have one myself for about 8 friends. To see the blog in question, it seems that there HAD to be some outside communication going on so it's no shocker to me.
Wow! I'm gone for two days and all Hades breaks loose! Over 200 comments regarding this video (which I had a hard time viewing because I have the internet connection equivalent of hooking up my computer to a telegraph - poor Jodi sounded like she was taking my order at a McDonald's drive-thru). I think this might have set a new record Nina - congrats!
Anyway, lots of blame is being tossed around regarding this - it's Jodi's fault, Julie's not doing her sister any favors, Kate started it.....but I think I know the real place of blame and the solution. It's TECHNOLOGY! Yes, if it weren't for the confounded TV, Jon and Kate would not have a forum for their child exploitation, If it weren't for the internet, Julie wouldn't have a blog, and we wouldn't have a place to vent our opinions of said blog, and we all know that You-Tube is the fouth horseman of the Apocolypse. Sooooo.....I say that Jon, Kate, Jodi and Julie need to convert to being Amish. They are already in Pennsylvania Dutch territory so the transition wouldn't be too difficult. Jon and Kate would need to have a custom-made extended cab buggy to fit all the kids in, but I'm sure their new fellow villagers Ephraim and Abraham could tackle that.
A private message board, actually 2 private message boards, wouldn't necessarily be a big deal except it is on at least one of these boards that the "child's rights advocates" from GwoP trash the very children that they are supposedly advocating for.
1, For the anon poster who said that all of this blogging is bringing pressure on TLC to cancel the show: on the contrary. All of this talk promotes the show and makes people curious. That increases the viewers. May I add that is elementary? Anyone should be able to understand that. So I don't buy this statement that hate sites exist to help get TLC to cancel the show. That is an excuse to post vile, hateful things about someone you all love to hate. 2. I used to check in at this GW whatever the heck it's called. I won't anymore. It's disgusting. I also don't want to support the bizarre behaviors of the moderators who have dreamed up a farce of a place. I mean, really! There are missing children displayed suddenly to give the site validity. It's not going to happen. It is what it is and not allowing freedom of speech is very telling. Censorship. Oh, no, wait a minute. Only opposing views are censored. That comes from fear. Can't have anyone expose the truth now, can we? I know at least one of them has a history on the internet including blogs and news groups where vulgar comments, hysterical fighting with others, sharing of their own intensely sad family situation which has, in turn, caused even more backlash and foul mouthed responses and attacks has all been displayed for all the world to see. I don't know if this person is still active or just leaves her made up name on the site. Hopefully she is gone and working on what appears to be her own very upsetting life. 3. I think the posters who have come over here are gleefully leaving comments in addition to reading whatever other boards/blogs are on the internet regarding the show. You are making this place famous darlings. Suggestion: take a shower, turn on the lights, get dressed and get out of the house. There is a whole world out there to be involved in. Seriously, I have a full life that includes going to school, taking care of a family, a house, a senior parent and enjoying my children. Since I have been ill I know how much time one can spend on the computer. To do so because you WANT to each and every day is a little troublesome. This means that whoever indulges in all of this reading and writing of so many places isn't doing much more. I find that very sad. Since I am now allowed to officially be up for 50% of the day I am going to use every moment of that time to do all the things I enjoy and need to do. Hint: get a life. 4. This Jodi/Julie thing is petty. For whatever reason(s) it should never have made it to a blog on the internet. Very bad choice. I would defend my family too if I were the Gosselins. They are being attacked. I would certainly put a notice on my blog. I would also keep family business just that-family business. So far it seems that they are not biting and taking particulars public even though they are being much maligned yet the J & J internet show goes on and on. Does this not tell you something? 5. We all make decisions for our own families and for ourselves. We live in the USA where we are encouraged to pursue that which we choose. Freedom is what we have and it seems to me that many angry folks are denying a family the freedom to make their own decisions and in the process of watching those small bits of daily life some people in this family have been unfortunate enough to have attracted the hatred and pettiness of various people who have no contact with them, only know them from moments depicted on the show, have never spoken with them, use odd contacts on the internet to post "proof" of this, that or the other. Leave them alone, turn off your TV and pursue your own dreams and freedoms. 6. The frenzy that has been built and supported is going to make the Gosselins more money. Know that. The J& J blog is going to increase viewership. The GW whatever is causing more people to watch so they can post. That means even those who hate the show watch episodes so they can review, criticize, speculate and spew things like Kate has a large rear (um...how many of those who post are unfortunate enough to have some extra weight or, dare I say, are obese? Shall we aim at your body shape and let it rip?) How is that relevant to what you all state is your purpose? Which is? I still can't understand what the PURPOSE is. I'm off to enjoy my freedom. I'm so happy to be up and about today! I have nothing but good wishes for all of you. Have a good day. And for God's sake do something positive for someone. Anyone!
Interesting but true. I'm a member of the Bitter But Brilliant rapidboard. We broke the news of the secret hideout message board months ago when someone called afrojo defected.
I have to inteject - if Kate and Jon cannot withoud their own criticism and name calling of their own children - who is to blame when others do it as well?
We all know 2 wrongs don't make a right. Don't blame everyone who posts on the same site for being a robot a believing that everything they choose to publish is ok to all. That is just dumb. I for one think GWoP should moderate even heavier. It has gotten petty.
"Suggestion: take a shower, turn on the lights, get dressed and get out of the house.
Leave them alone, turn off your TV and pursue your own dreams..."
**************************
Hi Twinmom. Perfectly said!
And the admonition to "leave them alone" should include not only the Gosselins - but Ninabell and other posters that have been harrassed simply for hosting a blog and/or expressing a different point of view from the most rabid Gosselin haters.
I am glad you are on the mend Twinmom! Life is so much more fulfilling when it has some *balance*, isn't it? (Hint to a certain sombody, "balance" DOESN'T entail monitoring sites you hate until all hours of the night!)
I've never seen that Bitter But Brilliant message board. On page 5 about half way down there is a comment from someone who says she lives near the Gosselins and *GASP* she LIKES Kate. Holy cow.
Jenn said... I've never seen that Bitter But Brilliant message board. On page 5 about half way down there is a comment from someone who says she lives near the Gosselins and *GASP* she LIKES Kate. Holy cow.
lol We knew there had to be SOMEBODY out there...hehehe. Kate and I seem to share the "bitch gene", so I'm sure I'd like her too;-)
Jenn said... I've never seen that Bitter But Brilliant message board. On page 5 about half way down there is a comment from someone who says she lives near the Gosselins and *GASP* she LIKES Kate. Holy cow.
Yeah but if you scroll down a little further she also says that she doesn't actually know Kate, just lives near her. The search continues...
I have to say I question the motive in airing Jodi's video. What exactly does she wish to acoomplish? Frankly, its disgusting and sad! Whatever goes on between Jodi and the Gosselins is none of our business. I prefer for them to sort out their issues privately than putting on the show for us internet viewers.
THANK YOU. That's all I've ever said, as well. I don't care if everything Julie has said is true. That's not the point. I never thought she was lying. I do, however, have a problem with her airing dirty laundry for the Internet masses to consume. THAT is not looking out for the children.
Why do the opinions of internet users matter so much to Jodi and Julie? I am trying to understand what they are trying to achieve because it is NOT in the best interests of children to air their grievances online!
RIGHT ON. All Jodi's on-line "confession" did for me is make me scratch my head and say, "WTF?"
I think this is all ridiculous.. the small minority of vocal crazies at GWoP and their equally nutty pro-Gosselin counterparts.
I see this said occasionally, but I disagree with it and I wish someone would give some evidence of "equally nutty pro-Gosselin counterparts." I really haven't seen any pro-Gosselin posts that strike me as nutty. I certainly haven't heard of any pro-Gosselin posters indulging in the sort of stalking behaviors the anti-Gosselin posters seem to do regularly. Can you elaborate on what you consider "nutty" pro-Gosselin behavior?
This is why I virtually stopped commenting here. I really don't wish to "debate" every point. I like more of a discussion format. That going point by point was getting on my nerves. I can see how some find it uncomfortable as I do. So I read occasionally but you can count me in the generally silent ones as I don't care for the pounced on feeling.
I hear people say this but I don't quite get it. Are you saying that you prefer a forum where everyone agrees? Because "discussion" is debate, when people don't agree. Posters may feel "pounced on", but I tend to see that as evidence that they can't really articulate or back up the positions they hold.
I don't see the appeal of a forum where one posts things but no one ever responds or questions what one has to say. I'm willing to back up anything I write here. Probably, occasionally, even to back down, if someone comes up with an argument that makes sense to me. That is what interesting discussion means to me.
I stand corrected on my comment about Julie not having posted again since the video. AFTER I posted that on here, she showed up over there thanking everyone for their kindness. Oh, and now Jodi is reading their comments and she's so touched by their "support".
If Jodi knows about their nasty message board and is still in cahoots (sp?) with them then she deserves the backlash.
I log on to both sites, fairly regularly. This is my first time commenting on this website. I do not like many things about the show. The children in my opinion are being exploited. What the result will be, I cannot know. It depends on their support system, their strength of character, etc. I have stopped watching the show, I refuse to contribute to the ratings. I have written to the sponsers, they should try to have advocates for the children or help create guidelines for the filming (since they support the show). My hope is that if the show is to continue, the filming hours should be lessened and that part of the money made from the show should be put into funds for the children. If they are working for the money it should be protected for them.
This Post is about Jodi's video which I saw this morning. I do not believe she was being forced to do the video. I do believe she was uncomfortable with it, because as many say she is (for the most part) a class-act and this goes beyond the grain. Her sister's motives or tactics shouldn't reflect on her and personally I think Julie does have some sort of hate agenda towards Kate Gosselin. With regards to Jodi, she was just adding some credibility to Josie, as many (I believe) were harrassing her and calling her a liar. This is a low point for Jodi as I feel she wouldn't have done this if she weren't really upset by the whole situation. She has lost a connection to her nieces/nephews who she loved. Her children are probably upset, her husband (Kate's brother) is also affected by what's going on. She however only speaks of herself (that much I do commend).
I do however believe that this will widen the rift between the two families, and make it less likely that things will be patched up. Maybe the video was done because Jodi feels she has nothing left to lose? Who knows. I will say this, I hope Jodie stays off the camera, pc, etc. and know that it's out in the open that further linen be aired. What is out there is enough. Any more information and it because HS drama. Ultimately it will just affect the children.
Side note: GWOP comments can be out of hand at times. Thankfully they are trying to clean that up. I will say that I have seen positive comments made or milder comments as well and they do get posted.
I tend to think that while initially Julie may have wanted to defend her sister, she has in the long run drawn more attention to the conflict and lengthened it's fifteen minutes in the spotlight.
In that sense, Julie has brought more negative attention to Jodi by doing the facebook group, the blog, the video and of course aligning with GwoP.
I thought that even the small clip we were shown on the episode demonstrated that Kate was over-reacting and seemed out of control regarding Collin's lovey bear.
Kate may had tried to make Jodi look bad, but in reality the person who looked worse was of course Kate.
Had Julie refrained from putting it all over the internet, the conflict would have died down and by now everyone would probably have forgotten about it. Sure, some people would wonder "Where is Jodi?" but now people are wondering even more about Jodi and Julie.
Maybe part of this is that not only can J&K not manage their sudden d-list celebrity status, but neither could Jodi. Of course, her sister was no help either.
And like you said chela -- the rift between the families has been made even bigger.
"Side note: GWOP comments can be out of hand at times. Thankfully they are trying to clean that up. I will say that I have seen positive comments made or milder comments as well and they do get posted."
I'm sorry but I see that as nothing more than damage control thanks to blogs like this one that have pointed out time and again how awful things have been at gwop.
They have used the "advocate" crap since the first post hit that blog. It is still the same blog with the same mods, why the change? Because they finally figured out that it made them look like extremists and hypocrites. It's nothing more than an attempt to save face. They don't give a damn about those kids and no amount of "cleaning" will make me believe otherwise.
I hear people say this but I don't quite get it. Are you saying that you prefer a forum where everyone agrees? Because "discussion" is debate,
I know you don't get it. That's kind of why I posted it. I have discussions with people all the time where we don't necessarily agree but they aren't debates. There is no defend your position or the antagonism that I feel from your posts. It's more I see it like this and I can see what you're saying, but I don't necessarily agree with it kind of thing. I may be expressing it badly but I do have discussions with people where we see things differently all the time without them becoming debates and someone looking for the tiniest flaw that they can jump on. All discussion is not debate in my experience. I enjoy discussion. I do not enjoy debate.
Shelly said... "I'm sure GWoP can confirm if you were members if you tell us your screen names? Right now you are just blowing hot air in my ear ladies, once you bashed and now you cheer. Would like to know the truth?"
I'm pretty sure we can all agree that we don't care what you believe, and no one here owes you anything.
Well, contrary to what you think, Anon 1:54, I do not ever post looking for "the tiniest flaw" that I can jump on. Depending on what I'm responding to, I may be emphatic, but I do also sometimes use the sort of language you're talking about: "I understand why people feel x", that sort of thing. I try not to do it solely to soften my opinions, though. I think women are trained too much to modulate their opinions and say things like, "I could be wrong, but..." I don't have a problem saying I'm not sure when I'm not sure, but I don't like to say it just to make other people feel better or so as not to come off too forceful.
I don't know. Maybe I am guilty of being too argumentative. But I think if you look at the majority of anti-Gosselin posts published here, they are not sincere attempts to find a common ground or initiate a discussion. They are either passive-aggressive and disingenuous ("Why are you all so mean?") or outright aggressive and hostile. So maybe it becomes hard to distinguish those few anti-Gosselin posters who really do want to have a civilized discussion and exchange of viewpoints.
I see this said occasionally, but I disagree with it and I wish someone would give some evidence of "equally nutty pro-Gosselin counterparts." I really haven't seen any pro-Gosselin posts that strike me as nutty. I certainly haven't heard of any pro-Gosselin posters indulging in the sort of stalking behaviors the anti-Gosselin posters seem to do regularly. Can you elaborate on what you consider "nutty" pro-Gosselin behavior?
Not the original poster, but I think that some of the posters at the Imperfect Parent site take their adoration too far, as did responses to the NY Post "Jon and Kate Pudding-Palooza" entry. At the latter, things really disintegrated once "MomsAgainstGWoP", "ilovejonandkate" and "jonandkatepluseightsuperFREAK" joined the discussion.
Please note that I am not saying that those who were critical of Jon and Kate behaved themselves 100%. But I do not think it is fair to assume that everyone who doesn't like J&K is from GWoP, just as it isn't fair to jump to the conclusion that someone who posts in support of the Gosselins has to be either Jon, Kate, or one of their employees. It is possible for people to have decided what they believe without being from one "camp" or the other.
P.S.: In the interest of full disclosure (and to keep from being called a hypocrite), while I don't think all people who like the Gosselins HAVE to be J, K, or an employee, I did have my suspicions about "ilovejonandkate" at the Post entry. The poster made some pronoun slips that, combined with their (ahem) fervent defense of the Gosselins raised my antenna.
In case anyone was genuinely wondering, the issue is that it is a private message board and in that sense the board probably reviews not only screen names with passwords/login information but also ISP #s.
If fgf were to give out her login information "for everyone to see" then the message board might not permit people to come in based on the ISP.
I've never read a rabid pro-Gosselin post either. I know there have been comments on imperfect parent that were so ridiculously stupid that nobody believed they were real. Example - I have 12 kids, 7 are bipolar and gee I think Kate is great cause Im a bitch too. As if anyone thought it was real. The vast majority of the anti-haters are just that -- anti the hate that GWOP spouts, its not about thinking Kate is the greatest mother since Jackie O. We just dont think stalking and name calling as a place in child advocacy.
Hypocritical isn't it, that GWOPers post here crying foul for us commenting about their blog, and yet their leaders and a select invited few have a "secret" blog that discusses frequent posters here? (Probably very similar to the old "slam" books from junior high--how juvenile!)
" Katydid said... P.S.: In the interest of full disclosure (and to keep from being called a hypocrite), while I don't think all people who like the Gosselins HAVE to be J, K, or an employee, I did have my suspicions about "ilovejonandkate" at the Post entry. The poster made some pronoun slips that, combined with their (ahem) fervent defense of the Gosselins raised my antenna"
Just wondering ... What's the big deal about people saying that the Gosselin children appear to be developmentally delayed? Why be so horribly offended by that? Many Many higher oder multiples have developmental issues when they are very young ..like speech delays, or need Occupational or speech Therapy. It happens all the time, and as a Mom of multiples myself (both or whom are developmentally delayed) - it's just something to be aware of and work on through therapy. I too see the possibility of some delays in the Gosselin children (not all of them) ... I see the signs .... I know them well now. Again, it's common, and I don't think anyone is saying anything is terribly wrong, but maybe an evaluation is in order. Nothing to get crazy over. Therapy at a young age works wonders and can really reverse any issues that may be going on, so that when you hit Kindergarten - things are worked out and the child is right on track with his/her peers.
Not the original poster, but I think that some of the posters at the Imperfect Parent site take their adoration too far, as did responses to the NY Post "Jon and Kate Pudding-Palooza" entry. At the latter, things really disintegrated once "MomsAgainstGWoP", "ilovejonandkate" and "jonandkatepluseightsuperFREAK" joined the discussion.
Thanks for the info. I only visited that site a couple of times a while ago, shortly after the TWoP site was closed down. I didn't really read enough to get the flavor of the site. I've assumed all along that we here at this blog are called "Gosselin worshippers" just to annoy us and force us to reiterate that yes, we do know that J&K aren't perfect. I'm not one to be all fangirly over just about ANYONE (okay, except one celebrity but I won't name the person because it's embarrassing). Certainly not about J&K, whose flaws I will readily admit (while saying that I don't think they are much more flawed than anyone else).
Please note that I am not saying that those who were critical of Jon and Kate behaved themselves 100%. But I do not think it is fair to assume that everyone who doesn't like J&K is from GWoP, just as it isn't fair to jump to the conclusion that someone who posts in support of the Gosselins has to be either Jon, Kate, or one of their employees. It is possible for people to have decided what they believe without being from one "camp" or the other.
Point taken. I don't assume that everyone here that posts anti-Gosselin sentiments is from GWoP, but when people express certain sentiments that seem straight out of the GWoP Groupthink Handbook, it's hard not to think that they are coming here from there.
Incidentally, I don't really see this blog as a "camp" - Nina posts all POVs, unlike GWoP, and as far as I know, there is no super seekrit message board attached to this blog where "insiders" snipe about posters.
You make a good point, momofmultiples; it shouldn't necessarily be seen as a criticism. But I do think it's wielded as a criticism from anti-Gosselin posters, both a criticism of J&K for not reducing and in general just blaming Kate for being a lousy mother who doesn't get her kids the appropriate help. And as anon mentions above, I don't think there is enough evidence to conclude than any of them are developmentally delayed. Often, when GWoPpers talk about typical 3-or-4-year old behavior, they make it evident that they have never spent any significant amount of time with a small child themselves. They make so many wrong pronouncements and blanket statements about what "normal" children do.
Not to mention but to me any treatment/therapy and of the children may or may not be receiving really isn't necessearily business of the viewing audience. Some families with HOM have been very candid about the children's grade placement and/or special services. I'm not so sure that's the way to go. Maybe the children don't need that info out there about them.
In the responses to the NY Post "Pudding-Palooza" entry: http://blogs.nypost.com/popwrap/archives/2008/08/jon_kate_puddin.html (look at posts dated 8/22 around 7P)
You have the right to be skeptical. No one said you didn't. I am pretty confident about everything you mentioned from a variety of things that have happened, comments made and e-mails shared. That is just my take from the knowledge that I have.
Anonymous said... So without being able to read the messages - we just take FGFs word about the content?
Being able to see a login area with "nasty" pictures doesn't
#1 mean the posts are derogatory toward the children.
#2 that GWOP mods are behind it.
Skepticism - belongs to everyone remember?
You are free to believe whatever you want. It is of no consequence to anyone else on this blog.
I will say that if there is nothing to hide, why did someone feel the need to change the pictures? They were the only hint of what that board was about. It's not like you can get in without the login info, so what was the point?
No I have not. However, something happened about 3 or 4 weeks ago on this blog and at that time this poster(who was angry) came right out and told me about it and who was talking about me and a few other people that posted here. A lot of her comments were deleted at the time because of their nature. She mentioned the names of the mods and how they were having a great old time laughing at all of us. I wondered how she would have privy to all of that information since she was not a moderator herself. I couldn’t figure out at the time what board she was talking about since I knew they didn't do that on the GWoP blog. That along with a few other things that have come my way have made me confident. But it is my opinion and you are entitled to yours.
nomoredrama, I read the post and I did see a couple pronoun slips.
"They wanted a child to love and God gave US (slip) two" (capped the slip)
"Jon and Kate have had some very VERY tough times and YES they did have to find money to pay OUR (slip) mortgage and God took care of them!!! God will punish all of you who have bad things to say about the wonderful Jon and Kate. There are many, MANY people who love US (slip) and take care of them and know that the TRUTH comes from their mouths, not YOURS!"
Okay, so why is that considered a big deal if that post is Jon or Kate? They have just as much of a right to post on the Internet as anyone else. At least they're not blogging and telling personal information about the members of their family for gossip whores to feed upon.
Actually, considering the things being said about them, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.
If what FGF was saying was not true, they wouldn't be so up in arms.
Keep your blinders on if that's what makes you more comfortable....
Who is up in arms? There is no change on the public GWOP board?
There were a lot of people who didn't believe Jodi's sister, even though she posted dialogue that occurred between Kate and members of her family. There were a lot of people who thought she was an imposter. Then she posted a picture of herself and Jodi on a family vacation - doubters again "Anyone can cut and paste a photo" - another picture of the two of them as teenagers was posted - again "someone could easily go on your Flickr and lift a picture" (with examples how to do it to boot). It was not until Jodi actually appeared on Julie's blog that some of you believed.
Now there are the doubts are replaced with "why did she do it?" "I have lost all respect for her".
Now, there is another mention of a board, no one wait - now all of a sudden there are two boards.
There is a comment where "I haven't been there since I decided to leave" "I don't even know I can still access it" to "that board is disappointed because the Jodi video didn't get the reaction they wanted"
Well, which one is it? You haven't been on the board since you "were disgusted with what they were posting"? Or you have been on it lately and they are discussing something that happened on Saturday?
Oh wait there are two boards - the very evil first one and the second benign one that doesn't make fun of Julie and Jodi - made up for Julie and Jodi's benefit.
The first evil one was the one "the whistleblower" stated that she left and has not been back on since she decided she didn't want to be part of it.
Well - which one has the "disappointment" about Jodi's video?
Common sense would tell you that it would be on the first evil board - but wait "she hasn't been on that board since she left and doesn't even know if she still has access".
Well ok how about the second more benign board - well if that one was "cleaned" up for Jodi and Julie's sake - why would it be posted there that the "disappointment" that the video didn't generate their expected response?
Now, the GDNOP mod,Nina, who has been very honest and says well, this piece fits with this piece and so on - admits she herself has not seen the actual postings.
Now, I am not blind, I don't doubt that there is at least one board - but without seeing the content how can I say "oh that was wrong" - what may be wrong to you is harmless to another. Also - without proof who can we know for sure that Serena and Sharla are directly related to this board. They are the ones who claim founded the GWOP board.
I can't speak for the rest of their "contributors" - but wouldn't you say, even though you (the regulars) are not listed - are you not "contributors" to this board?
If you all decided to post somewhere else privately, and it was "exposed", if someone found the content to be offensive to them - would it be fair to say "Oh Nina Bell is behind this because so and so contributes to her board?"
I have seen the name Manda posted - well is Manda Sharla or Serena? Manda has posted here and there. So who is she?
These are the questions I am asking.
Why is it when any of you jump on other commenters you are "questioning" and you have the right to question and the other person is just losing their side of the discussion? But anyone who is not convinced or is even questioning this has blinders on or just jealous?
You have no reason to believe anyone here. But you will notice that your post made it to the discussion. It saw the light of day.
Similar questions were directed to the owners of the other blog and they were not posted. Or they were posted and immediately a swarm of "GwoP staff members" would swoop in to discount comments that offered another perspective.
Nina has tried to create an atmosphere where questions are welcome.
I do appreciate that all my comments are posted here (I've never posted at GWOP so I can't say whether they filter or not). However, I have been accused of being a GWOPer and had words put in my mouth on every post. Why? Because I say that Kate is not a great mother? She isn't, IMO. That Jodi is a better mother? She is, IMO. That I'm a better mother? I am, IMO. And there's nothing wrong with saying one mother is better than another. I work at a very high level job and people are compared and evaluated relative to other people all the time, so I don't see why motherhood should be any different (it's a job too). I don't buy the 'different styles' of motherhood to make excuses for Kate's impatience, screaming and yelling at her kids and husband. That's not a style of parenting, it's wrong. Using the different styles of parenting argument, a drug addict that leaves her children home by themselves just has a 'different style' of parenting (and no, I'm not comparing Kate to a drug addict).
Hi Nina! This is an excerpt from a comment I made on another "fair" blog today. I hope you don't mind I cut/paste parts for yours.
I still don't understand why Jodi need to "come forward" through her sis' blog to talk about an incident. It just doesn't seem like mature adult behavior to me. What do you think those little faces (C's and M's) are going to look like when they see their beloved aunt's video and those comments? They will be hurt. That just breaks my heart.
Am I the only one who thinks this? If these other sites are truly about the children's well being, then why is it okay if their nice aunt is on the payroll?
There is nothing wrong with questioning Kate's behavior. I do not like her her obsession with keeping kids clothing stain-free, but as I look around my family room with the 3 baskets of laundry still unfolded I'm thinking that I wish a little of that would rub off on me for this evening. (wink wink)
Yes, she yells. Yes, she is kind of crummy to her husband. I think that one of the words I saw used was ball-buster.
I've don't see Kate as my role model for motherhood, but then again I don't find my role models on tv. I find them in real life.
I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with saying one mother is better than another, but I do say that those kinds of discussions make me anxious. Some of the most bitter, hurtful and vicious conversations that I've witnessed have been about motherhood --
Stay at home mom v. Working mom Breast fed v. bottle fed
etc., etc.
Now add Kate v. Jodi to that list.
But I'm not prepared to say that I know what kind of mother Kate is from what we see in 25 ish minutes of edited television. I can say that what we see on tv does not put her in a good light often, but I can't say about whether she is a good mom when she is off camera.
"I don't buy the 'different styles' of motherhood to make excuses for Kate's impatience, screaming and yelling at her kids and husband." ********************************
I hear what you are saying. I don't believe in *excusing* those behaviors in Kate that I disagree with either. For me, I don't have a real problem with her yelling. I don't think she does it excessively and the reality is when one is dealing with 8 children under 10, one must raise one's voice just to be heard sometimes. I am not going to get into her relationship with Jon other than to agree that belittling him in front of the kids is a bad idea and not effective parenting. I also have other issues with her - the harsh gender roles she assigns, for example.
That said, I really agree with nearly everything Linda has to say on this issue. I too get a bit anxious with the way we as women critique each other's choices. Obviously, there are certain parenting behaviors we can all agree are not acceptable. Beyond that, labeling Mother J as a "good mother" and Mother K as "not a good mother" is too simplistic in my view and a bit unkind.
As mothers, we nearly all have areas that we excel in and areas that we could stand to work on. From the limited view we have of Kate (22 minutes in an edited show), I think she falls into this category and I don't know what is achieved exactly by labeling her.
And you know what? At the end of the day, there are millions of us walking around who had less than perfect mothers that still love our moms to death. As adults hopefully, we can put their mistakes into perspective and realize they usually did the best they could. At least that's my perspective. Unfortunately for me, I couldn't fully come to this realization until I achieved some maturity and my mom passed away. Now, I wish I had given her more of a break and I try and do that when I see other woman struggling as mothers.
I posted the "equally nutty" comment. Honestly, you don't see it? You don't think that driving past the Gosselin house to "get a look at the kids" and take pics of them is creepy as anything? Or that speculation on where Cara and Mady go to school is just a little frightening? Maybe the calling out of GWoP posters as "retards" and "mentally ill" is enough for you, who knows. All I'm saying is that for every jerkbag that posts something about Kate being a horrible mom and wanting to call CPS on her, some equally ridiculous fangirl calls Jodi a trashy, classless whore (to borrow from IMDB.) I post at both places (here/GWoP,) and both places have their awesome posters and their er, rather emphatic supporters and dissenters. There are extremists on BOTH sides of the coin, not just here and there but all over the web. It's very frustrating and, frankly, annoying that both blogs are judged on the basis of a handful of extreme posters.
I'm noticing a trend here lately. Non regular GDNNOP posters (trying to be non-accustatory) come here and try to say we are all Kate-lovers. I don't think any of us have ever said she's perfect.
Based on the little bit of edited TV I see each week, there is always something that I don't agree with, from either Jon or Kate and sometimes both of them. I just don't feel the need to go all crazy about the small stuff that I don't agree with.
I do, however, have an issue with people making fun of the kids and saying they need mental health evals. Hence the reason I choose to post here and not elsewhere.
Which brings me to... if you don't like how this blog is being managed then you don't have to post here.
As a side-note, Jon and Kate may bicker but I do think they love each other. I can see it when they kid each other like they were when Jon was eating his 2nd piece of cake.
Anon 7:30, I'm sure you are very well meaning but you have absolutely no idea what is going on behind the scenes. The only reason you cannot see first hand the anger and venom is being spewed at this site is because the comments are not being posted. Rest assured, they are being saved as Nina Bell said. I am telling you that I am certain that what FGF is reporting is true. How I know, you will not be privy to. Quite honestly, I don't care if you believe it and neither do any of us really.
Since you basically asked for attention, I'm going to give it to you. Hope this doesn't cause whining about being "mean" later but here goes:
It was not until Jodi actually appeared on Julie's blog that some of you believed. Uh, yeah, that's called being appropriately skeptical of what a hate group purports as truth. We're sheeple...right? But yet, when we don't act that way, the anti's get their panties up in a bunch and get so upset..."Wait a minute....you are supposed to blindly accept what I say" Sorry...no such luck.
Now there are the doubts are replaced with "why did she do it?" "I have lost all respect for her".
This is where you're confused...Read posts that were written days and even weeks before the video. There are plenty of us that think that what Jodi is doing is crass, tacky, and makes her look ridiculous. A 1:10 second video where she (who's integrity is questionable) says "Julie's blog is true" does not prove anything except that she is behind the side of the story that her sister is telling. In case you didn't know, there are 2 sides to every story. So once again, the "anti's" get so upset that we're not blindly accepting Jodi's proclamation of truth. Until she walks on water...I think I'll steer clear of making her a deity who's word is final.
Now, there is another mention of a board, no one wait - now all of a sudden there are two boards.
And once again, if you had your listening ears on (or reading eyes), you would see that the boards in question were always a controversial topic around here. In fact, people called FGF a liar among other things. She finally outed them last night and anyone who was on last night got hard core proof that what she was saying is true. Once again, could care less if you believe it...hundreds of people saw it...if you didn't, that's your problem.
There is a comment where "I haven't been there since I decided to leave" "I don't even know I can still access it" to "that board is disappointed because the Jodi video didn't get the reaction they wanted" Try to follow the conversation...the first 2 comments referred to the secret board. The third referred to GWoP and the lovlies that have come over from there wreaking havoc and trying to intimidate....You don't even have to see the posts that Nina Bell denied. You can just read the posts in this section from beginning to end (I know, you'll claim that you have "too much of a life" to do that).
Common sense would tell you that it would be on the first evil board - but wait "she hasn't been on that board since she left and doesn't even know if she still has access". *sigh* it's annoying to have to keep explaining what you would know if you actually paid attention. There have been so many malicious messages on this site to the point where one of the strings had to be closed...this, my friend, is where the evident disappointment (among other things) reared its very ugly head. You don't need to go anywhere to figure it out...just hang around here for a bit...
Now, I am not blind, I don't doubt that there is at least one board - but without seeing the content how can I say "oh that was wrong" - what may be wrong to you is harmless to another. Also - without proof who can we know for sure that Serena and Sharla are directly related to this board. They are the ones who claim founded the GWOP board. Keep rationalizing to yourself...the link has been posted previously in this thread. Images from their login page was changed for our benefit last night...those images have been saved. You see, you are believing exactly what they want you to believe. And, in a few days, they will probably lift the privacy on the board, delete the comments and move to another "more secure" location. Just because they know that if they say it never happened, people like you will hang onto their every word and believe it.
If you all decided to post somewhere else privately, and it was "exposed", if someone found the content to be offensive to them - would it be fair to say "Oh Nina Bell is behind this because so and so contributes to her board?"
GWoP was born out of the private board, not the reverse...In other words, GWoP came second. Please, Note to yourself...read before writing lengthy post.. Furthermore, no specific names were given of "who is behind it." Though we do have the s/n of one particular malicious little stalker.
I have seen the name Manda posted - well is Manda Sharla or Serena? Manda has posted here and there. So who is she? Read around to find out...the answers are all right in this thread
Why is it when any of you jump on other commenters you are "questioning" and you have the right to question and the other person is just losing their side of the discussion? The evidence speaks for itself...I don't need to elaborate.
But anyone who is not convinced or is even questioning this has blinders on or just jealous? If you can't be convinced with hard evidence than I don't know what else to call it. Case in point...Many have asked "why do you call them stalkers" and the question is answered by taking a post from their blog which was approved even with the heavy moderation. But then you (I mean the collective you, not you personally) do the same thing that you accused us of doing earlier (talking out of both sides of the mouth). Then it gets qualified.."well, it wasn't posted by a mod." WHO CARES???? A wise person once said "Silence Condones"
It goes on and on...someone questions, we post evidence, they get all pissy that the evidence was posted and try to wriggle out of it by putting in qualifiers and/or personal insults.
See, I know I'm being a bitch now, but I have PMS and I am so sick and tired of the same old arguments. Stick a fork in me, I'm done (but since I'm full of drama, I'll probably keep posting).
I posted the "equally nutty" comment. Honestly, you don't see it? You don't think that driving past the Gosselin house to "get a look at the kids" and take pics of them is creepy as anything? Or that speculation on where Cara and Mady go to school is just a little frightening? Maybe the calling out of GWoP posters as "retards" and "mentally ill" is enough for you, who knows.
AbsoFREAKINlutely (except maybe the GWoP part). Hence, why I can't stand GWoP and no one here, that I know of, condones that or has driven by the Gosselin home. Neither have we made speculations about Mady's school. If you are talking about IMP...I can understand. I am not a fan of that board. I actually cannot stand a love fest on either side...That's why I post here.
I post at both places (here/GWoP,) and both places have their awesome posters and their er, rather emphatic supporters and dissenters.
I realize that I am one of the more frequent posters on here and, yeah, I can be an opinionated bitch...I don't hate Kate but I certainly don't think she's mother of the year. I do, however, freely and willingly admit my EXTREME dislike of GWoP for MANY reasons....It's not that I'm against criticism...I'm against the very things you said in the beginning of your post that you referred to as creepy. It's all over that blog...and there are some sinister people there...
If you want to really know about the secret message board, I suppose that you could post some nasty stuff about the family and see if you get invited in.
OR
You could write to Serena and see what she has to say? You could ask her about the message boards.
It isn't that the message boards exist that is the big deal to many of us. It is that the "Child Rights Advocates" over at GwoP say some nasty derogatory things about these kids and their parents on those message boards in the name of advocating for them.
I saw the board last night. It's link was posted and the front page requiring a screen name and a password came up.
On the front page of their message board, a photoshopped image of horses on the beach with a donkey near it was visible. Later when some of the more extreme GwoPpers realized that we had been there, they changed the images to something else ... one derogatory toward the mother and the other one derogatory toward Nina.
"I am telling you that I am certain that what FGF is reporting is true. How I know, you will not be privy to. Quite honestly, I don't care if you believe it and neither do any of us really."
What could be possibly more compelling than the actual posts?
Ugh. She seems sincere, but why would you add to the drama? Someone said it earlier...even if what she is saying is true, at least J&K aren't throwing mud around too. Makes them look a lot better than Jodi airing out family biz.
However, I have been accused of being a GWOPer and had words put in my mouth on every post. Why? Because I say that Kate is not a great mother? She isn't, IMO. That Jodi is a better mother? She is, IMO. That I'm a better mother? I am, IMO. And there's nothing wrong with saying one mother is better than another. I work at a very high level job and people are compared and evaluated relative to other people all the time, so I don't see why motherhood should be any different (it's a job too). I don't buy the 'different styles' of motherhood to make excuses for Kate's impatience, screaming and yelling at her kids and husband. That's not a style of parenting, it's wrong.
A couple of things:
- I don't think we've seen nearly enough of Jodi's parenting to really fairly compare her against Kate, who we've seen in all sorts of stressful situations. I still think a lot of the "Jodi is a wonderful mother" is based solely on her being soft-spoken and more conforming to a feminine ideal than Kate.
- I don't know that I've ever seen Kate scream, though I've seen her yell, and be impatient. If those two things are enough to make someone a bad mother in your eyes...then I guess there are a lot of bad mothers out there.
- I don't think the analogy to a job is really that fair; most people are at least somewhat more dispassionate about their careers than about their children. I mean, if you want to set up a ranking where every mother is evaluated (by your criteria) and ranked, then fine. But I would guess than in the larger scheme of things, you yourself would then rank as a "worse" mother than a lot of other women. I mean, with all of the millions of mothers in the world, even if you were in the top 5%, there would be thousands and thousands of women who are better mothers than you are. Does that make you feel okay? Do you still see nothing wrong with judging women that way? Sure, you can say you're better than Kate, but you're probably much worse than the best mother in the world. It doesn't feel as great when you're ranking below someone rather than above them, I would guess.
- It's funny; I don't think I've ever seen a discussion about whether Jon is a better father than Kevin (or any other guy). Curious.
As far as questioning who "Manda" is and that you haven't seen a post from her here. There is a reason for that. Nina WAS letting Manda's posts through and as she argued more and more with people, her posts became more shrill and creepy and made less sense because no one was being swayed to her opinion. She became obsessive and STILL monitors this board for hours and submits comments for everyone. Nina made the decision to stop posting her comments because she was getting creepy and stalkerish. So, Manda did have posts here, but she's since been cut off for bad behavior (and juding from Nina's comments Sunday nigth, has done nothing to convince anyone that she deserves to be heard again).
As for the "outing" of the private message board called Reality TV Unlocked, we're not the only board with a whistle blower. They were outed before this on another board, by someone called "afrojo," so we've hardly broken any big news, really.
I am telling you that I am certain that what FGF is reporting is true. How I know, you will not be privy to. Quite honestly, I don't care if you believe it and neither do any of us really."What could be possibly more compelling than the actual posts?
There you go...assuming again...and jumping to conclusions. Like I said before, you will not be privy to how I know. And like I said, I really don't care if you believe me.
After much digging on Bitter but Brilliant, I found some posts about the secret message board. I didn't find anything by afrojo, but from somebody called seashell. Seashell's post from Feb 16 2008 was quoted here
"Oh thank goodness, I am another refugee from TWOP. I am also a refugee from the new secret forum that was started in January. It was started w/ good intentions by good people but time has taken its toll. The last 3 weeks, ugh. The new site requires an invite. Sadly, it turned quite toxic this week. All the cyber stars you mention from many threads seem to be flocking to the new private site. By April it will be over the top."
But seashell edited her original post on Mar 1 2008 here
"Ugh, maybe I have found sanctuary. I was on TWOP sporadically. I made the mistake of posting a tiny bit more on the J&K thread recently.
These TWOP refugees view themselves as simply better, which is humorous. Some feel they write better. Parent better. Have a better sense of humor. Pocess a clever wit, beyound reproach. Then they end up expressing what they hated at TWOP. And are more toxic but in a veiled way. They think they are clever or different when all they say is stuff like, Kate is a BITCH, her kids are spoiled or delayed or emotional time bombs, etc, etc..............Anyhoo, thanks, I will read and see if saner people prevail. People that admit they make fun and can be katty, but not so serious. And not not incessant tattlers to the TWOP."
A poster called Port Authority also confirms the existence of the secret forum here
"I was invited onto the alternative J & K site as well. I did not choose to do that. And yet, I am one of the most hated persons on THIS board. It is a show, I have opinions, and yet, I actually listen to other people and can change my opinions, or modify them."
By the way, anonymous. I don't know that anyone is Serena is behind the private message boards as in she started them.
I do believe that she acknowledges starting the GwoP blog and that it was born out of a group of people who started chatting after the TwoP forum on J&K was closed.
The secret message board, by Serena's own admission exists. She is saying that the content isn't offensive or inconsistent with the mission of GwoP, but then again she doesn't find the derogatory posts about the Gs on her blog to be inconsistent with the mission of GwoP.
"Because I say that Kate is not a great mother? She isn't, IMO. That Jodi is a better mother? She is, IMO. That I'm a better mother? I am, IMO. And there's nothing wrong with saying one mother is better than another."
Everything in this statement is wrong to me...Unless there is severe abuse of some sort and the mother is allowing it to happen, or is intentionally making a miserable living for their child. No mother is "better" than another, it's all about style.
Many of us find the GwoP blog to be objectionable because so many of the comments that are posted are derogatory and even vile about the G kids despite the stated mission that they are "advocating for the kids."
The secret message board is, according to a person who left that board and several other posters, is EVEN MORE VILE in it's comments about the children.
Keep in mind, this is private message board is apparently the genesis of the GwoP blog.
Now, if you are honestly asking then this should provide you with the information that you are seeking.
Then again, if you are fishing ... you already know this.
I don't read at GWOP quite honestly. I just don't see how what's said on a private board can hurt anyone. Isn't that the main concern if people are saying mean things about J&K and their children? That they could be hurt? Of course, from watching the show, they do a good job on their own of showing themselves in a negative light.
"I just don't see how what's said on a private board can hurt anyone. Isn't that the main concern if people are saying mean things about J&K and their children? That they could be hurt?"
For me, the main "concern" of the other Gosselin board and the private board is a word that starts with "H". Can you guess it? Ok, I'll give it to you -- H Y P O C R I S Y Never liked it, never will.
"...from watching the show, they do a good job on their own of showing themselves in a negative light."
That's your opinion, which you are, of course, entitled to. Some of us don't agree. (Or at least don't agree with the over the top magnification of their faults).
Boys4Me, Yes, there are some moments that are recorded that I'm sure J&K are not proud of. In fact, they've said that.
So Kate yells and is controlling. Ooook. Makes her a pain in the ass, doesn't make her a bad mother. Certainly doesn't make her abusive. Some of the best mother's I've met are controlling and organized. Sure, they have their flaws and they grate on people's nerves but at the end of the day they have love in their family and well-adjusted children.
I agree. No one is perfect, and thus no mother is perfect (or father, for that matter, though that doesn't seem to get talked about as much). People are imperfect in different ways. One mother is too controlling; another may be too permissive. It doesn't mean they don't love their kids, or that they aren't doing the best they can. We all damage our children in some way; it's just inevitable. We give them complexes and neuroses and issues. We just have to hope that we also give them the tools to deal with these things, and that they are resilient enough to be happy in their imperfection.
I remember reading a post from one of the most vociferous GWoP posters (hint: she loves her "Joely") stating that the Gosselin kids were "ruined" by Kate. I thought that was such an ugly thing to say. They aren't going to grow up to be perfect; some of them may not even grow up to be happy. Who knows? But I don't think Kate has "ruined" them. When posters go on about how messed up the Gosselin children are, I really feel like I'm watching a different show. Most of them seems happy most of the time, and I think right now they have a pretty good life.
You mean that "fgf" and us regulars at GDNNOP are not the only ones who think that some of the things that are posted by GwoP are a little off.
Yeah, and there is also the board that Guinevere talked about, which I checked out last night. Princess Marie Chantal, or something like that? Anyway, their J&K thread is full of negative references to the people who frequent GWoP. They also didn't think much of most of the regular TWoP posters, either (which makes perfect sense, since most of the negative posters from TWoP migrated to GWoP and RTVU).
So, basically, it shouldn't be a big shock to them. If you're going to market yourself as "experts" and the definitive place to go for Gosselin gossip and negativity, you're going to be questioned and have your credibility challenged.
329 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 329 of 329FGF - why don't you post the information that will get the rest of in?
After all, every truth has two sides.
the GWOPers are accused of wanting to "bring the family down" and "trying to ruin" them?
In your definition - what does this entail?
I would have pointed out that the two words MEAN THE EXACT SAME THING, but I saved my typing fingers the trouble, knowing my comment would never be posted.
I agree - take it up with Jon and Kate they're the ones who make the distinction.
When I click on the link provided:
http://z15.invisionfree.com/Reality_TV_Unlocked/index.php?act=Reg&CODE=00
I get a picture of J&K with Kate shown with a green face. I have the feeling this "sets the tone" for the vicious nature of the site.
Nina, you might consider moving this to a front page entry. I think casual lurkers and posters at GWoP deserve to know what the people who run their site are really about. I know there are decent people who visit the site.
Thanks to Nina and FGF for providing the additional information. Unlike the GWoP'ers who supposedly wanted us to eat crow after Jodi released her video, I don't take pleasure in finding out this additional information. Yes, it confirms what I already suspected about the motives of the moderators and frequent posters at GWoP, but the ugliness of it all makes me a bit sad. Maybe I'm just emotional tonight!
BTW, the reference to Jon having an affair with his fitness instructor made it to the pages of GWoP itself. That wasn't hidden on the secret board like the "Fatty Arbuckle" comment.....
The picture was changed for our benefit, I believe. Manda has been monitoring this blog for almost 2 hours now and she is feeding back everything we are writing.
It's laughable!!!! They are so pissed that they are caught...Poor Manda...Sorry your little farce has been uncovered.
Nina, did you see the one with the kids saying "Save me, Ninabell! You're my only hope"
I see you're TRUE Colors shining through..and, frankly, it makes me green with nausea!!
FGF, thanks again for providing for providing us the proof...Now that they've been outed...I guess they will have to resort to what they know best, insults, name-calling and stupidity. LMAO!!!!!
Wow!
Well NinaBell, I am now officially jealous of you. Not only do you probably have your own thread on their message board, but you are referred to in a caption?
Aunt Jodi's confessional did not have the desired effect???? There's over 200 posts on this website in less than a day - I would not be surprised if that's a record (I haven't even checked GWOP).
The people who defend Jodi are simply observing how much nicer she comes across than Kate. She comes across as kind and a good mother every episode I've seen her, while Kate, well...much less (in fact I don't think I've made it through one whole episode without me thinking 'wow, I'm glad I'm a much better mother'). Of course maybe neither one of them is like what they are portrayed on TV, but then why would Kate choose to come off as a terrible wife, impatient mother and all around unkind person?
Once again I am honored!
What was that man's name that was suppose to take these people serious about wanting to help the children. Let's send him a few of these pictures.
Wow and Wow. These people really are a whole lot crazy!
Nina,
His name is Paul Petersen and his website is ...
http://www.minorcon.org/
Nina, I believe you are referring to Paul Peterson?
Me thinks he already did a little digging and found out he wantd NO part of these folks agenda, but it wouldn't hurt to send him the pictures to make sure he knows who he is dealing with. (I am pretty sure, he is still being bombarded with their emails - poor guy).
See, "advocacy" cuts both ways...
Batten down the hatches Nina Bell. I've got a feeling that a storm of "advocacy" is about to blow through.
Linda,
You can not even believe the crap that is coming through right now. Delete, delete, delete.
Aunt Jodi's confessional did not have the desired effect???? There's over 200 posts on this website in less than a day
It didn't have the desired effect in that the majority of posters here seem not to have suddenly "seen the light" and changed our views about J&K, Bitter Julie or Jodi. A lot of us simply stated that it confirmed that Jodi supported her sister's blogging. Big deal. The *truth* of the matter remains elusive (and subjective) and I doubt any of us will ever know the whole story. And that's for the best - it's not our business anyway.
Also, I take issue with your statement that "Kate is a terrible wife, impatient mother and all around unkind person?" I simply disagree with these broad charaterizations. Remember, we have seen 20x the film of Kate at both her good and bad moments than we have seen of St. Jodi. Yes, Jodi does appear to be a more relaxed easy-going person, but again, we are basing this on maybe 30 minutes of combined film. Kate and Jodi appear to be very different people, but I have personally witnessed sides of Kate that I generally like. I may be in the minority here, but that's my opinion. I think she does some things as a mother extremely well and has other areas she needs to work at. Just like 99.9% of ALL mothers!
I won't comment on J&K's marriage. I think a lot of their "back and forth" is hyped up by the producers anyway and I generally shy away from analyzing other people's marriages. Those of us on the outside usually have no clue!
anya,
Maybe the J&K public relations machine has gotten to Petersen too?
First TLC, then TwoP, and now a Minor Consideration. Her master plan is working!
I think that Kate Gosselin and her Super Uterus are positioned to RULE THE WORLD!
bawhahahaha
fgf -
Did anyone ever discuss why they were so pissed at the Gosselins?
Were they people who once donated to them? Were they people who were from their old church?
I guess that I'm wondering what motivates virutal strangers to go after a tv family?
Oh no. I don't believe any of them had donated "love offerings" or anything like that.
Reality TV Unlocked was born when the mods at TWoP (Television Without Pity) began to seriously moderate the J&K+8 thread on their board. It was shut down regularly as a "time out" because the posts and bickering were getting out of hand (something that should surprise no one, I'm sure). When the TWoP mods would eventually open the thread back up, people would behave at first, but then it would always disintegrate and the bannings would start. It was at TWoP where the first mentions of calling CPS on the Gosselins were brought up and the name of Cara and Mady's school was also posted (and subsequently taken down as soon as a mod saw it, The mods smacked down posters for doing that as "creepy and stalkerish." Gee, you think?). Finally, after awhile, the TWoP mods began to realize that one thread was taking too much time to babysit. If you've seen TWoP, they have an insane amount of threads to monitor and the J&K thread had become the "problem child" out of the entire board. Finally, they just closed the J&K thread for good. Subsequent attempts by GWoPPERS and posters from RTVU to start new ones have been unsuccessful. They are closed immediately and the poster banned.
While all this was happening, a TWoP poster began sending out PMs to some people who posted on TWoP about the Gosselins, saying that she created a new, private message board and to come and join. At first the board was light fun with just snarky commentary on the show. It wasn't until the real militant hate posters from TWoP joined that the board began to change. It took on a gang mentality which swelled. There was a movement to "enlighten the masses" but stopped short of wanting to open the message board for public scrutiny (anyone could see who the real crazies were if they did that). So, they started a blog based on situations being discussed on the private board. GWoP was born from that. Posters that were not overtly negative towards the Gosselins (like me) either left when things got creepy or were "converted" and joined the hate.
Awww...Nina....you should reserve the nasty comments in their own section and title the section "true colors"
Because like I said, at the end of the day, insults and name calling is now all they have.
wow... i think they have shown their true colors. the whole thing reeks of high school drama.
seriously, someone has been monitoring this for 2 hours? must be nice to have that sort of time! at 10:30 pm I was in safeway buying apples for my daughters school project tomorrow.
FGF - why don't you post the information that will get the rest of in?
Wow. If I knew what you were asking, maybe I'd do it.
Aunt Jodi's confessional did not have the desired effect???? There's over 200 posts on this website in less than a day
It didn't have the desired effect in that the majority of posters here seem not to have suddenly "seen the light" and changed our views about J&K,
EXACTLY, Anya.
Nina, don't delete. Archive and make sure any posting information you receive with the nastiness is saved along with them. Might come in handy someday and cost some stalkers their ISP privileges.
fgf -
So other than Julie and Aunt Jodi (who may or may not be connected to GwoP), most of these people are complete strangers?
That is about 10 lbs of creepy in a 5 lb bag.
By the way fgf --
Do you think that they know which former fan of their blog you are?
Nina,
did you happen to take screen shots of their pages that refer to you?
Good question Linda (to FGF)...
I wonder, does FGF still have access to that site?
I'm still flabbergasted at this whole secret message board stuff...
I wonder, does Julie really know who she has aligned herself with? If she does, does Jodi too? I would hate to think that they are a part of the "mean girls".
Seriously Nina,
They've probably got a thread devoted to this blog and one of their moderators is assigned to monitoring this blog.
When they particularly don't like an entry or a comment, I bet they provide a link to it from the secret message board.
Those people go from the secret message board to this blog and it is in your stat counter/site meter.
(Oh my goodness, I sound like an episode of CSI Miami)
Yes I am saving the comments. No I didn't save the pictures. I don't care that much about that. Someone is actually very creative .
Do you think that they know which former fan of their blog you are?
Seeing as to how this blog has bugged the crap out of them, I'm sure they've tried to figure it out. The thing is, if they had stopped the name calling and sniping, I probably never would have elaborated. I mean, I mentioned a secret message board way before today, but never posted the name of it until now. After being called a liar and the snide comments they left here, I said, "screw it."
Do I still have access? Dunno. Once I left, I never went back and have no desire to.
Goodnight Manda,
I am going to bed
Nina Bell said...
Goodnight Manda,
I am going to bed
August 24, 2008 11:26 PM
LMAO!!
jon and kate don't react because:
they will lose their gravy train if they start responding and i believe that at least a majority of it is true.
as far as jodi, i believe that things were already so bad with the way she had been treated by jon and kate, there wasn't any hope left. she say her sister was being abused by vile comments, and she stood beside her sister.
I think Nina Bell and Fgf are just being upset cause the where told to take a hike from GWoP. I think they are just looking for some attention now that there friends told them to leave the secret fort. I don't think they where members personally. If you were really members of GWoP who where you there, I'm sure GWoP can confirm if you were members if you tell us your screen names? Right now you are just blowing hot air in my ear ladies, once you bashed and now you cheer. Would like to know the truth?
I agree - take it up with Jon and Kate they're the ones who make the distinction.
How so? I didn't see the distinction made by J&K, I saw it made by GWoPpers who insisted that Kate was weaseling by using "untruth" rather than "lie". Maybe I missed another instance of it?
I think this is all ridiculous.. the small minority of vocal crazies at GWoP and their equally nutty pro-Gosselin counterparts. Most of us just watch (or watched) the show to be entertained by the kids, not Kate's latest neuroses. The bickering between different sects of the fandom has gotten way out of hand - fighting personal attacks with personal attacks gets us nowhere.
Aunt Jodi's confessional did not have the desired effect???? There's over 200 posts on this website in less than a day - I would not be surprised if that's a record (I haven't even checked GWOP).
I'll just echo what others have said and state that I doubt the GWoPpers' mission is to cause more hits on this blog. They want to convert people to their "cause", and it ain't gonna happen. Any more than the revelation of the "secret board" will make any of the anti-Gosselin crowd rethink their positions. I think we're all pretty entrenched at this point. My position, anyway, has never been based on believing that Kate's a saint and that everyone who says bad things about her are liars. I simply object to the ugliness and the creepiness that runs rampant at GWoP.
The people who defend Jodi are simply observing how much nicer she comes across than Kate. She comes across as kind and a good mother every episode I've seen her, while Kate, well...much less (in fact I don't think I've made it through one whole episode without me thinking 'wow, I'm glad I'm a much better mother').
And so modest, too!
Seriously, part of my issue has always been the way St. Jodi is canonized while Kate is demonized, and the way that they are juxtaposed as mothers.
It's okay (or it should be okay) for two different women to have two different personalities. Kate doesn't have to be labeled a bitch or a terrible mother or an awful wife just because she doesn't come off as "sweet" as St. Jodi does. I really think there is a healthy heaping of misogyny in the comparison - St. Jodi is so traditionally feminine (long hair and soft voice) whereas Kate has sensible short hair and is opinionated and bossy. I understand people having issues with Kate, I really do. She doesn't bother me, usually, but I can see why she'd get on some people's nerves (I can't see why they would then feel the need to stalk her and try to ruin her life, but that's another subject). But specifically comparing Kate to St. Jodi and finding Kate wanting sets my teeth on edge. It's like, if you aren't as sweet and quiet and simpy as St. Jodi, you shouldn't even THINK about having kids. I like Jodi fine, her rather tacky video and apparent bitchy gossipy streak notwithstanding - actually, the bitchy gossipy streak at least humanizes her a bit! But I don't agree with holding her up as the ne plus ultra of motherhood.
The very fact that you feel the need to compare your parenting with Kate's says to me that you've bought into this competitive mothering bullshit that is foisted on women.
Shelly,
I do not now or did I ever say I was a member of GWoP.I only recently stumbled acrossed that site when someone e-mailed the URL to me. Please read more carefully before you comment.
Anon @ 12:48 said .."she say her sister was being abused by vile comments, and she stood beside her sister."
Her sister wouldn't have had any "abuse" if she hadn't started a public blog.
They brought this on themselves by making the family business public.
Why Shelly? So they can terrorize fgf the way they've done with so many others?
I don't think you need proof. I think you KNOW these private boards exist and you're just looking for the identity of the person who blabbed the "family's" secrets.
I find it telling that the picture on that blog of the horse with a Kate wig on has been replaced, but too many trusted people on this site saw it. It's a little late for the damage control.
Shelly,
Nice try.
it's a little too late because the images are saved....and in a safe location.
From reading about Manda being on this site for hours monitoring it, to the pics they removed from the secret board, to Shellys attempt at getting FGF to reveal her name I havent laughed this much online in ages. What a great way to start another Monday.
I'm sure more than 1 of us saved those images.
Wow, I sure missed the excitement this past weekend with the airing of Jodi's video and the "out" of that secret board message. Pretty craaaaazy!
I have to say I question the motive in airing Jodi's video. What exactly does she wish to acoomplish? Frankly, its disgusting and sad! Whatever goes on between Jodi and the Gosselins is none of our business. I prefer for them to sort out their issues privately than putting on the show for us internet viewers.
Why do the opinions of internet users matter so much to Jodi and Julie? I am trying to understand what they are trying to achieve because it is NOT in the best interests of children to air their grievances online! To open the avenues for the cyberstalkers to harrass the Gosselins family even further. The egging on and sickingly syrupy comments in support of Jodi makes me really sick. And they all say they are the adovcates of children? Bitch, please!
So ridiculous that its laughable. Ugh.....drama llamas strike again!
So Julie hasn't posted a thing on GWoP since she posted that video. Maybe since Jodi has "spoken" there is no longer a reason to post there and maybe she's done with GWoP.
How would anyone know that someone was monitoring the site? Does anyone honestly think that someone would care that much? I mean, seriously. As far as private boards go, I don't really get the big deal about that. I've been on private boards before, they're just a bunch of people who have a close relationship and don't feel that others would fit in. It seems like some people wish they could be invited.
boys4me
Well since you asked - Several weeks ago someone who made in known that she is a member of the GWoP society was unhappy with something I posted. She continued to send harassing comments on this blog until 3 am in the morning. She was the last man standing, so I was able to get her IP address off of the sitemeter and statcounter and now have it labeled with her name. When she is on, I am alerted. Consequently she went on to harass another poster and took her identity on IMP and MySpace and that poster was notified by IMP what was going on. She suspected that it was the same person I was having problems with and I shared the information I had with IMP and low and behold it was the same IP address. That person has continued her harassment of this site and myself.
I have had my fill of a lot of this and you can rest assured I do not want to be invited into that society.
See, in general conversation, when 2 people have an opposing point of view, they may debate back and forth, questioning how the other came to their conclusions. This is the nature of disagreement.
This is why I virtually stopped commenting here. I really don't wish to "debate" every point. I like more of a discussion format. That going point by point was getting on my nerves. I can see how some find it uncomfortable as I do. So I read occasionally but you can count me in the generally silent ones as I don't care for the pounced on feeling.
Pardon me if I missed the point, but why is it a huge thing that people have a private board? I have one myself for about 8 friends. To see the blog in question, it seems that there HAD to be some outside communication going on so it's no shocker to me.
Wow!
I'm gone for two days and all Hades breaks loose! Over 200 comments regarding this video (which I had a hard time viewing because I have the internet connection equivalent of hooking up my computer to a telegraph - poor Jodi sounded like she was taking my order at a McDonald's drive-thru). I think this might have set a new record Nina - congrats!
Anyway, lots of blame is being tossed around regarding this - it's Jodi's fault, Julie's not doing her sister any favors, Kate started it.....but I think I know the real place of blame and the solution. It's TECHNOLOGY! Yes, if it weren't for the confounded TV, Jon and Kate would not have a forum for their child exploitation, If it weren't for the internet, Julie wouldn't have a blog, and we wouldn't have a place to vent our opinions of said blog, and we all know that You-Tube is the fouth horseman of the Apocolypse. Sooooo.....I say that Jon, Kate, Jodi and Julie need to convert to being Amish. They are already in Pennsylvania Dutch territory so the transition wouldn't be too difficult. Jon and Kate would need to have a custom-made extended cab buggy to fit all the kids in, but I'm sure their new fellow villagers Ephraim and Abraham could tackle that.
Anonymous 8:14 --
A private message board, actually 2 private message boards, wouldn't necessarily be a big deal except it is on at least one of these boards that the "child's rights advocates" from GwoP trash the very children that they are supposedly advocating for.
Go figure!
but I think I know the real place of blame and the solution. It's TECHNOLOGY!
Now that's fun to come here and read! Thanks so much for the laugh.
1, For the anon poster who said that all of this blogging is bringing pressure on TLC to cancel the show: on the contrary. All of this talk promotes the show and makes people curious. That increases the viewers. May I add that is elementary? Anyone should be able to understand that. So I don't buy this statement that hate sites exist to help get TLC to cancel the show. That is an excuse to post vile, hateful things about someone you all love to hate.
2. I used to check in at this GW whatever the heck it's called. I won't anymore. It's disgusting. I also don't want to support the bizarre behaviors of the moderators who have dreamed up a farce of a place. I mean, really! There are missing children displayed suddenly to give the site validity. It's not going to happen. It is what it is and not allowing freedom of speech is very telling. Censorship. Oh, no, wait a minute. Only opposing views are censored. That comes from fear. Can't have anyone expose the truth now, can we? I know at least one of them has a history on the internet including blogs and news groups where vulgar comments, hysterical fighting with others, sharing of their own intensely sad family situation which has, in turn, caused even more backlash and foul mouthed responses and attacks has all been displayed for all the world to see. I don't know if this person is still active or just leaves her made up name on the site. Hopefully she is gone and working on what appears to be her own very upsetting life.
3. I think the posters who have come over here are gleefully leaving comments in addition to reading whatever other boards/blogs are on the internet regarding the show. You are making this place famous darlings. Suggestion: take a shower, turn on the lights, get dressed and get out of the house.
There is a whole world out there to be involved in. Seriously, I have a full life that includes going to school, taking care of a family, a house, a senior parent and enjoying my children. Since I have been ill I know how much time one can spend on the computer. To do so because you WANT to each and every day is a little troublesome. This means that whoever indulges in all of this reading and writing of so many places isn't doing much more. I find that very sad. Since I am now allowed to officially be up for 50% of the day I am going to use every moment of that time to do all the things I enjoy and need to do. Hint: get a life.
4. This Jodi/Julie thing is petty. For whatever reason(s) it should never have made it to a blog on the internet. Very bad choice. I would defend my family too if I were the Gosselins. They are being attacked. I would certainly put a notice on my blog. I would also keep family business just that-family business. So far it seems that they are not biting and taking particulars public even though they are being much maligned yet the J & J internet show goes on and on. Does this not tell you something?
5. We all make decisions for our own families and for ourselves. We live in the USA where we are encouraged to pursue that which we choose. Freedom is what we have and it seems to me that many angry folks are denying a family the freedom to make their own decisions and in the process of watching those small bits of daily life some people in this family have been unfortunate enough to have attracted the hatred and pettiness of various people who have no contact with them, only know them from moments depicted on the show, have never spoken with them, use odd contacts on the internet to post "proof" of this, that or the other. Leave them alone, turn off your TV and pursue your own dreams and freedoms.
6. The frenzy that has been built and supported is going to make the Gosselins more money. Know that. The J& J blog is going to increase viewership.
The GW whatever is causing more people to watch so they can post. That means even those who hate the show watch episodes so they can review, criticize, speculate and spew things like Kate has a large rear (um...how many of those who post are unfortunate enough to have some extra weight or, dare I say, are obese? Shall we aim at your body shape and let it rip?) How is that relevant to what you all state is your purpose? Which is? I still can't understand what the PURPOSE is.
I'm off to enjoy my freedom. I'm so happy to be up and about today! I have nothing but good wishes for all of you. Have a good day. And for God's sake do something positive for someone. Anyone!
Interesting but true. I'm a member of the Bitter But Brilliant rapidboard. We broke the news of the secret hideout message board months ago when someone called afrojo defected.
I have to inteject - if Kate and Jon cannot withoud their own criticism and name calling of their own children - who is to blame when others do it as well?
We all know 2 wrongs don't make a right. Don't blame everyone who posts on the same site for being a robot a believing that everything they choose to publish is ok to all. That is just dumb. I for one think GWoP should moderate even heavier. It has gotten petty.
Twinmom said:
"Suggestion: take a shower, turn on the lights, get dressed and get out of the house.
Leave them alone, turn off your TV and pursue your own dreams..."
**************************
Hi Twinmom. Perfectly said!
And the admonition to "leave them alone" should include not only the Gosselins - but Ninabell and other posters that have been harrassed simply for hosting a blog and/or expressing a different point of view from the most rabid Gosselin haters.
I am glad you are on the mend Twinmom! Life is so much more fulfilling when it has some *balance*, isn't it? (Hint to a certain sombody, "balance" DOESN'T entail monitoring sites you hate until all hours of the night!)
I've never seen that Bitter But Brilliant message board. On page 5 about half way down there is a comment from someone who says she lives near the Gosselins and *GASP* she LIKES Kate. Holy cow.
Jenn said...
I've never seen that Bitter But Brilliant message board. On page 5 about half way down there is a comment from someone who says she lives near the Gosselins and *GASP* she LIKES Kate. Holy cow.
lol We knew there had to be SOMEBODY out there...hehehe. Kate and I seem to share the "bitch gene", so I'm sure I'd like her too;-)
'm sure GWoP can confirm if you were members if you tell us your screen names?
BWAH-HAHAHAHA! That's the best laugh I've had in ages. Nice try, though.
Jenn said...
I've never seen that Bitter But Brilliant message board. On page 5 about half way down there is a comment from someone who says she lives near the Gosselins and *GASP* she LIKES Kate. Holy cow.
Yeah but if you scroll down a little further she also says that she doesn't actually know Kate, just lives near her.
The search continues...
I have to say I question the motive in airing Jodi's video. What exactly does she wish to acoomplish? Frankly, its disgusting and sad! Whatever goes on between Jodi and the Gosselins is none of our business. I prefer for them to sort out their issues privately than putting on the show for us internet viewers.
THANK YOU. That's all I've ever said, as well. I don't care if everything Julie has said is true. That's not the point. I never thought she was lying. I do, however, have a problem with her airing dirty laundry for the Internet masses to consume. THAT is not looking out for the children.
Why do the opinions of internet users matter so much to Jodi and Julie? I am trying to understand what they are trying to achieve because it is NOT in the best interests of children to air their grievances online!
RIGHT ON. All Jodi's on-line "confession" did for me is make me scratch my head and say, "WTF?"
I think this is all ridiculous.. the small minority of vocal crazies at GWoP and their equally nutty pro-Gosselin counterparts.
I see this said occasionally, but I disagree with it and I wish someone would give some evidence of "equally nutty pro-Gosselin counterparts." I really haven't seen any pro-Gosselin posts that strike me as nutty. I certainly haven't heard of any pro-Gosselin posters indulging in the sort of stalking behaviors the anti-Gosselin posters seem to do regularly. Can you elaborate on what you consider "nutty" pro-Gosselin behavior?
This is why I virtually stopped commenting here. I really don't wish to "debate" every point. I like more of a discussion format. That going point by point was getting on my nerves. I can see how some find it uncomfortable as I do. So I read occasionally but you can count me in the generally silent ones as I don't care for the pounced on feeling.
I hear people say this but I don't quite get it. Are you saying that you prefer a forum where everyone agrees? Because "discussion" is debate, when people don't agree. Posters may feel "pounced on", but I tend to see that as evidence that they can't really articulate or back up the positions they hold.
I don't see the appeal of a forum where one posts things but no one ever responds or questions what one has to say. I'm willing to back up anything I write here. Probably, occasionally, even to back down, if someone comes up with an argument that makes sense to me. That is what interesting discussion means to me.
I stand corrected on my comment about Julie not having posted again since the video. AFTER I posted that on here, she showed up over there thanking everyone for their kindness. Oh, and now Jodi is reading their comments and she's so touched by their "support".
If Jodi knows about their nasty message board and is still in cahoots (sp?) with them then she deserves the backlash.
We broke the news of the secret hideout message board months ago when someone called afrojo defected
Whoops. The "Super Seekret Message Board" has probably been tripping all over themselves trying to find out who outed them.
"FGF - why don't you post the information that will get the rest of in?
Wow. If I knew what you were asking, maybe I'd do it."
The Login information so we can read the messages ourselves.
Fatty Arbuckle? That's such an old, obscure reference. So not only are they mean-spirited, but not too clever.
The gig is up, all you "advocacy experts!". HA
I log on to both sites, fairly regularly. This is my first time commenting on this website. I do not like many things about the show. The children in my opinion are being exploited. What the result will be, I cannot know. It depends on their support system, their strength of character, etc. I have stopped watching the show, I refuse to contribute to the ratings. I have written to the sponsers, they should try to have advocates for the children or help create guidelines for the filming (since they support the show). My hope is that if the show is to continue, the filming hours should be lessened and that part of the money made from the show should be put into funds for the children. If they are working for the money it should be protected for them.
This Post is about Jodi's video which I saw this morning. I do not believe she was being forced to do the video. I do believe she was uncomfortable with it, because as many say she is (for the most part) a class-act and this goes beyond the grain. Her sister's motives or tactics shouldn't reflect on her and personally I think Julie does have some sort of hate agenda towards Kate Gosselin. With regards to Jodi, she was just adding some credibility to Josie, as many (I believe) were harrassing her and calling her a liar. This is a low point for Jodi as I feel she wouldn't have done this if she weren't really upset by the whole situation. She has lost a connection to her nieces/nephews who she loved. Her children are probably upset, her husband (Kate's brother) is also affected by what's going on. She however only speaks of herself (that much I do commend).
I do however believe that this will widen the rift between the two families, and make it less likely that things will be patched up. Maybe the video was done because Jodi feels she has nothing left to lose? Who knows. I will say this, I hope Jodie stays off the camera, pc, etc. and know that it's out in the open that further linen be aired. What is out there is enough. Any more information and it because HS drama. Ultimately it will just affect the children.
Side note: GWOP comments can be out of hand at times. Thankfully they are trying to clean that up. I will say that I have seen positive comments made or milder comments as well and they do get posted.
Hi Chela -
Thanks for posting.
I tend to think that while initially Julie may have wanted to defend her sister, she has in the long run drawn more attention to the conflict and lengthened it's fifteen minutes in the spotlight.
In that sense, Julie has brought more negative attention to Jodi by doing the facebook group, the blog, the video and of course aligning with GwoP.
I thought that even the small clip we were shown on the episode demonstrated that Kate was over-reacting and seemed out of control regarding Collin's lovey bear.
Kate may had tried to make Jodi look bad, but in reality the person who looked worse was of course Kate.
Had Julie refrained from putting it all over the internet, the conflict would have died down and by now everyone would probably have forgotten about it. Sure, some people would wonder "Where is Jodi?" but now people are wondering even more about Jodi and Julie.
Maybe part of this is that not only can J&K not manage their sudden d-list celebrity status, but neither could Jodi. Of course, her sister was no help either.
And like you said chela -- the rift between the families has been made even bigger.
The Login information so we can read the messages ourselves.
Ummm, that wouldn't do any good since it's PRIVATE and you have to be an invited member to see anything.
chela429 said...
"Side note: GWOP comments can be out of hand at times. Thankfully they are trying to clean that up. I will say that I have seen positive comments made or milder comments as well and they do get posted."
I'm sorry but I see that as nothing more than damage control thanks to blogs like this one that have pointed out time and again how awful things have been at gwop.
They have used the "advocate" crap since the first post hit that blog. It is still the same blog with the same mods, why the change? Because they finally figured out that it made them look like extremists and hypocrites. It's nothing more than an attempt to save face. They don't give a damn about those kids and no amount of "cleaning" will make me believe otherwise.
MCB said...
The Login information so we can read the messages ourselves.
Ummm, that wouldn't do any good since it's PRIVATE and you have to be an invited member to see anything.
I think they want fgf's personal login information, which I'd say ain't gonna happen.
Gwop want's soooo badly to know who is ratting them out...lol
I hear people say this but I don't quite get it. Are you saying that you prefer a forum where everyone agrees? Because "discussion" is debate,
I know you don't get it. That's kind of why I posted it. I have discussions with people all the time where we don't necessarily agree but they aren't debates. There is no defend your position or the antagonism that I feel from your posts. It's more I see it like this and I can see what you're saying, but I don't necessarily agree with it kind of thing. I may be expressing it badly but I do have discussions with people where we see things differently all the time without them becoming debates and someone looking for the tiniest flaw that they can jump on. All discussion is not debate in my experience. I enjoy discussion. I do not enjoy debate.
Shelly said...
"I'm sure GWoP can confirm if you were members if you tell us your screen names? Right now you are just blowing hot air in my ear ladies, once you bashed and now you cheer. Would like to know the truth?"
I'm pretty sure we can all agree that we don't care what you believe, and no one here owes you anything.
Well, contrary to what you think, Anon 1:54, I do not ever post looking for "the tiniest flaw" that I can jump on. Depending on what I'm responding to, I may be emphatic, but I do also sometimes use the sort of language you're talking about: "I understand why people feel x", that sort of thing. I try not to do it solely to soften my opinions, though. I think women are trained too much to modulate their opinions and say things like, "I could be wrong, but..." I don't have a problem saying I'm not sure when I'm not sure, but I don't like to say it just to make other people feel better or so as not to come off too forceful.
I don't know. Maybe I am guilty of being too argumentative. But I think if you look at the majority of anti-Gosselin posts published here, they are not sincere attempts to find a common ground or initiate a discussion. They are either passive-aggressive and disingenuous ("Why are you all so mean?") or outright aggressive and hostile. So maybe it becomes hard to distinguish those few anti-Gosselin posters who really do want to have a civilized discussion and exchange of viewpoints.
I see this said occasionally, but I disagree with it and I wish someone would give some evidence of "equally nutty pro-Gosselin counterparts." I really haven't seen any pro-Gosselin posts that strike me as nutty. I certainly haven't heard of any pro-Gosselin posters indulging in the sort of stalking behaviors the anti-Gosselin posters seem to do regularly. Can you elaborate on what you consider "nutty" pro-Gosselin behavior?
Not the original poster, but I think that some of the posters at the Imperfect Parent site take their adoration too far, as did responses to the NY Post "Jon and Kate Pudding-Palooza" entry. At the latter, things really disintegrated once "MomsAgainstGWoP", "ilovejonandkate" and "jonandkatepluseightsuperFREAK" joined the discussion.
Please note that I am not saying that those who were critical of Jon and Kate behaved themselves 100%. But I do not think it is fair to assume that everyone who doesn't like J&K is from GWoP, just as it isn't fair to jump to the conclusion that someone who posts in support of the Gosselins has to be either Jon, Kate, or one of their employees. It is possible for people to have decided what they believe without being from one "camp" or the other.
P.S.: In the interest of full disclosure (and to keep from being called a hypocrite), while I don't think all people who like the Gosselins HAVE to be J, K, or an employee, I did have my suspicions about "ilovejonandkate" at the Post entry. The poster made some pronoun slips that, combined with their (ahem) fervent defense of the Gosselins raised my antenna.
In case anyone was genuinely wondering, the issue is that it is a private message board and in that sense the board probably reviews not only screen names with passwords/login information but also ISP #s.
If fgf were to give out her login information "for everyone to see" then the message board might not permit people to come in based on the ISP.
But then again, some of you already knew that.
I've never read a rabid pro-Gosselin post either. I know there have been comments on imperfect parent that were so ridiculously stupid that nobody believed they were real. Example - I have 12 kids, 7 are bipolar and gee I think Kate is great cause Im a bitch too. As if anyone thought it was real. The vast majority of the anti-haters are just that -- anti the hate that GWOP spouts, its not about thinking Kate is the greatest mother since Jackie O. We just dont think stalking and name calling as a place in child advocacy.
give out her login information "for everyone to see" then the message board might not permit people to come in based on the ISP.
Or she and Nina could end up finding a horse's head in their beds a la The Godfather.
Hypocritical isn't it, that GWOPers post here crying foul for us commenting about their blog, and yet their leaders and a select invited few have a "secret" blog that discusses frequent posters here? (Probably very similar to the old "slam" books from junior high--how juvenile!)
You know, I thought my husband had gotten very hairy overnight. And the breath! Neighhhhh
" Katydid said...
P.S.: In the interest of full disclosure (and to keep from being called a hypocrite), while I don't think all people who like the Gosselins HAVE to be J, K, or an employee, I did have my suspicions about "ilovejonandkate" at the Post entry. The poster made some pronoun slips that, combined with their (ahem) fervent defense of the Gosselins raised my antenna"
Where did ilovejonandkate post?
Just wondering ...
What's the big deal about people saying that the Gosselin children appear to be developmentally delayed? Why be so horribly offended by that? Many Many higher oder multiples have developmental issues when they are very young ..like speech delays, or need Occupational or speech Therapy. It happens all the time, and as a Mom of multiples myself (both or whom are developmentally delayed) - it's just something to be aware of and work on through therapy. I too see the possibility of some delays in the Gosselin children (not all of them) ... I see the signs .... I know them well now. Again, it's common, and I don't think anyone is saying anything is terribly wrong, but maybe an evaluation is in order. Nothing to get crazy over. Therapy at a young age works wonders and can really reverse any issues that may be going on, so that when you hit Kindergarten - things are worked out and the child is right on track with his/her peers.
To me the problem is
1. People not really seeing the children enough to make that call.
2. If there is a delay, Jon and Kate could already have sought out services for the child in need.
Not the original poster, but I think that some of the posters at the Imperfect Parent site take their adoration too far, as did responses to the NY Post "Jon and Kate Pudding-Palooza" entry. At the latter, things really disintegrated once "MomsAgainstGWoP", "ilovejonandkate" and "jonandkatepluseightsuperFREAK" joined the discussion.
Thanks for the info. I only visited that site a couple of times a while ago, shortly after the TWoP site was closed down. I didn't really read enough to get the flavor of the site. I've assumed all along that we here at this blog are called "Gosselin worshippers" just to annoy us and force us to reiterate that yes, we do know that J&K aren't perfect. I'm not one to be all fangirly over just about ANYONE (okay, except one celebrity but I won't name the person because it's embarrassing). Certainly not about J&K, whose flaws I will readily admit (while saying that I don't think they are much more flawed than anyone else).
Please note that I am not saying that those who were critical of Jon and Kate behaved themselves 100%. But I do not think it is fair to assume that everyone who doesn't like J&K is from GWoP, just as it isn't fair to jump to the conclusion that someone who posts in support of the Gosselins has to be either Jon, Kate, or one of their employees. It is possible for people to have decided what they believe without being from one "camp" or the other.
Point taken. I don't assume that everyone here that posts anti-Gosselin sentiments is from GWoP, but when people express certain sentiments that seem straight out of the GWoP Groupthink Handbook, it's hard not to think that they are coming here from there.
Incidentally, I don't really see this blog as a "camp" - Nina posts all POVs, unlike GWoP, and as far as I know, there is no super seekrit message board attached to this blog where "insiders" snipe about posters.
You make a good point, momofmultiples; it shouldn't necessarily be seen as a criticism. But I do think it's wielded as a criticism from anti-Gosselin posters, both a criticism of J&K for not reducing and in general just blaming Kate for being a lousy mother who doesn't get her kids the appropriate help. And as anon mentions above, I don't think there is enough evidence to conclude than any of them are developmentally delayed. Often, when GWoPpers talk about typical 3-or-4-year old behavior, they make it evident that they have never spent any significant amount of time with a small child themselves. They make so many wrong pronouncements and blanket statements about what "normal" children do.
Not to mention but to me any treatment/therapy and of the children may or may not be receiving really isn't necessearily business of the viewing audience. Some families with HOM have been very candid about the children's grade placement and/or special services. I'm not so sure that's the way to go. Maybe the children don't need that info out there about them.
Where did ilovejonandkate post?
In the responses to the NY Post "Pudding-Palooza" entry: http://blogs.nypost.com/popwrap/archives/2008/08/jon_kate_puddin.html (look at posts dated 8/22 around 7P)
ok Thanks,
So without being able to read the messages - we just take FGFs word about the content?
Being able to see a login area with "nasty" pictures doesn't
#1 mean the posts are derogatory toward the children.
#2 that GWOP mods are behind it.
Skepticism - belongs to everyone remember?
You have the right to be skeptical. No one said you didn't. I am pretty confident about everything you mentioned from a variety of things that have happened, comments made and e-mails shared. That is just my take from the knowledge that I have.
So you Nina Bell have seen the actual postings?
I can understand not sharing the information so publicly - but I would think you would be privy to the information.
Anonymous said...
So without being able to read the messages - we just take FGFs word about the content?
Being able to see a login area with "nasty" pictures doesn't
#1 mean the posts are derogatory toward the children.
#2 that GWOP mods are behind it.
Skepticism - belongs to everyone remember?
You are free to believe whatever you want. It is of no consequence to anyone else on this blog.
I will say that if there is nothing to hide, why did someone feel the need to change the pictures? They were the only hint of what that board was about. It's not like you can get in without the login info, so what was the point?
No I have not. However, something happened about 3 or 4 weeks ago on this blog and at that time this poster(who was angry) came right out and told me about it and who was talking about me and a few other people that posted here. A lot of her comments were deleted at the time because of their nature. She mentioned the names of the mods and how they were having a great old time laughing at all of us. I wondered how she would have privy to all of that information since she was not a moderator herself. I couldn’t figure out at the time what board she was talking about since I knew they didn't do that on the GWoP blog. That along with a few other things that have come my way have made me confident. But it is my opinion and you are entitled to yours.
Katydid...I'm so confused...I'm not being sarcastic. I went to that link and didn't see any pronoun slips...Is there more that I'm not seeing?
So without being able to read the messages - we just take FGFs word about the content?
If what FGF was saying was not true, they wouldn't be so up in arms.
Keep your blinders on if that's what makes you more comfortable....
nomoredrama, I read the post and I did see a couple pronoun slips.
"They wanted a child to love and God gave US (slip) two" (capped the slip)
"Jon and Kate have had some very VERY tough times and YES they did have to find money to pay OUR (slip) mortgage and God took care of them!!! God will punish all of you who have bad things to say about the wonderful Jon and Kate. There are many, MANY people who love US (slip) and take care of them and know that the TRUTH comes from their mouths, not YOURS!"
Okay, so why is that considered a big deal if that post is Jon or Kate? They have just as much of a right to post on the Internet as anyone else. At least they're not blogging and telling personal information about the members of their family for gossip whores to feed upon.
Actually, considering the things being said about them, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.
If what FGF was saying was not true, they wouldn't be so up in arms.
Keep your blinders on if that's what makes you more comfortable....
Who is up in arms? There is no change on the public GWOP board?
There were a lot of people who didn't believe Jodi's sister, even though she posted dialogue that occurred between Kate and members of her family. There were a lot of people who thought she was an imposter. Then she posted a picture of herself and Jodi on a family vacation - doubters again "Anyone can cut and paste a photo" - another picture of the two of them as teenagers was posted - again "someone could easily go on your Flickr and lift a picture" (with examples how to do it to boot). It was not until Jodi actually appeared on Julie's blog that some of you believed.
Now there are the doubts are replaced with "why did she do it?" "I have lost all respect for her".
Now, there is another mention of a board, no one wait - now all of a sudden there are two boards.
There is a comment where "I haven't been there since I decided to leave" "I don't even know I can still access it" to "that board is disappointed because the Jodi video didn't get the reaction they wanted"
Well, which one is it? You haven't been on the board since you "were disgusted with what they were posting"? Or you have been on it lately and they are discussing something that happened on Saturday?
Oh wait there are two boards - the very evil first one and the second benign one that doesn't make fun of Julie and Jodi - made up for Julie and Jodi's benefit.
The first evil one was the one "the whistleblower" stated that she left and has not been back on since she decided she didn't want to be part of it.
Well - which one has the "disappointment" about Jodi's video?
Common sense would tell you that it would be on the first evil board - but wait "she hasn't been on that board since she left and doesn't even know if she still has access".
Well ok how about the second more benign board - well if that one was "cleaned" up for Jodi and Julie's sake - why would it be posted there that the "disappointment" that the video didn't generate their expected response?
Now, the GDNOP mod,Nina, who has been very honest and says well, this piece fits with this piece and so on - admits she herself has not seen the actual postings.
Now, I am not blind, I don't doubt that there is at least one board - but without seeing the content how can I say "oh that was wrong" - what may be wrong to you is harmless to another. Also - without proof who can we know for sure that Serena and Sharla are directly related to this board. They are the ones who claim founded the GWOP board.
I can't speak for the rest of their "contributors" - but wouldn't you say, even though you (the regulars) are not listed - are you not "contributors" to this board?
If you all decided to post somewhere else privately, and it was "exposed", if someone found the content to be offensive to them - would it be fair to say "Oh Nina Bell is behind this because so and so contributes to her board?"
I have seen the name Manda posted - well is Manda Sharla or Serena? Manda has posted here and there. So who is she?
These are the questions I am asking.
Why is it when any of you jump on other commenters you are "questioning" and you have the right to question and the other person is just losing their side of the discussion? But anyone who is not convinced or is even questioning this has blinders on or just jealous?
Well, I'm not saying that you have blinders on.
You have no reason to believe anyone here. But you will notice that your post made it to the discussion. It saw the light of day.
Similar questions were directed to the owners of the other blog and they were not posted. Or they were posted and immediately a swarm of "GwoP staff members" would swoop in to discount comments that offered another perspective.
Nina has tried to create an atmosphere where questions are welcome.
So where is the smoking gun?
I do appreciate that all my comments are posted here (I've never posted at GWOP so I can't say whether they filter or not). However, I have been accused of being a GWOPer and had words put in my mouth on every post. Why? Because I say that Kate is not a great mother? She isn't, IMO. That Jodi is a better mother? She is, IMO. That I'm a better mother? I am, IMO. And there's nothing wrong with saying one mother is better than another. I work at a very high level job and people are compared and evaluated relative to other people all the time, so I don't see why motherhood should be any different (it's a job too). I don't buy the 'different styles' of motherhood to make excuses for Kate's impatience, screaming and yelling at her kids and husband. That's not a style of parenting, it's wrong. Using the different styles of parenting argument, a drug addict that leaves her children home by themselves just has a 'different style' of parenting (and no, I'm not comparing Kate to a drug addict).
Hi Nina! This is an excerpt from a comment I made on another "fair" blog today. I hope you don't mind I cut/paste parts for yours.
I still don't understand why Jodi need to "come forward" through her sis' blog to talk about an incident. It just doesn't seem like mature adult behavior to me. What do you think those little faces (C's and M's) are going to look like when they see their beloved aunt's video and those comments? They will be hurt. That just breaks my heart.
Am I the only one who thinks this? If these other sites are truly about the children's well being, then why is it okay if their nice aunt is on the payroll?
It all just seems so bothersome.
Anon 8:07,
There is nothing wrong with questioning Kate's behavior. I do not like her her obsession with keeping kids clothing stain-free, but as I look around my family room with the 3 baskets of laundry still unfolded I'm thinking that I wish a little of that would rub off on me for this evening. (wink wink)
Yes, she yells. Yes, she is kind of crummy to her husband. I think that one of the words I saw used was ball-buster.
I've don't see Kate as my role model for motherhood, but then again I don't find my role models on tv. I find them in real life.
I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with saying one mother is better than another, but I do say that those kinds of discussions make me anxious. Some of the most bitter, hurtful and vicious conversations that I've witnessed have been about motherhood --
Stay at home mom v. Working mom
Breast fed v. bottle fed
etc., etc.
Now add Kate v. Jodi to that list.
But I'm not prepared to say that I know what kind of mother Kate is from what we see in 25 ish minutes of edited television. I can say that what we see on tv does not put her in a good light often, but I can't say about whether she is a good mom when she is off camera.
Anon 8:07 p.m. said...
"I don't buy the 'different styles' of motherhood to make excuses for Kate's impatience, screaming and yelling at her kids and husband."
********************************
I hear what you are saying. I don't believe in *excusing* those behaviors in Kate that I disagree with either. For me, I don't have a real problem with her yelling. I don't think she does it excessively and the reality is when one is dealing with 8 children under 10, one must raise one's voice just to be heard sometimes. I am not going to get into her relationship with Jon other than to agree that belittling him in front of the kids is a bad idea and not effective parenting. I also have other issues with her - the harsh gender roles she assigns, for example.
That said, I really agree with nearly everything Linda has to say on this issue. I too get a bit anxious with the way we as women critique each other's choices. Obviously, there are certain parenting behaviors we can all agree are not acceptable. Beyond that, labeling Mother J as a "good mother" and Mother K as "not a good mother" is too simplistic in my view and a bit unkind.
As mothers, we nearly all have areas that we excel in and areas that we could stand to work on. From the limited view we have of Kate (22 minutes in an edited show), I think she falls into this category and I don't know what is achieved exactly by labeling her.
And you know what? At the end of the day, there are millions of us walking around who had less than perfect mothers that still love our moms to death. As adults hopefully, we can put their mistakes into perspective and realize they usually did the best they could. At least that's my perspective. Unfortunately for me, I couldn't fully come to this realization until I achieved some maturity and my mom passed away. Now, I wish I had given her more of a break and I try and do that when I see other woman struggling as mothers.
I posted the "equally nutty" comment. Honestly, you don't see it? You don't think that driving past the Gosselin house to "get a look at the kids" and take pics of them is creepy as anything? Or that speculation on where Cara and Mady go to school is just a little frightening? Maybe the calling out of GWoP posters as "retards" and "mentally ill" is enough for you, who knows. All I'm saying is that for every jerkbag that posts something about Kate being a horrible mom and wanting to call CPS on her, some equally ridiculous fangirl calls Jodi a trashy, classless whore (to borrow from IMDB.) I post at both places (here/GWoP,) and both places have their awesome posters and their er, rather emphatic supporters and dissenters. There are extremists on BOTH sides of the coin, not just here and there but all over the web. It's very frustrating and, frankly, annoying that both blogs are judged on the basis of a handful of extreme posters.
I'm noticing a trend here lately. Non regular GDNNOP posters (trying to be non-accustatory) come here and try to say we are all Kate-lovers. I don't think any of us have ever said she's perfect.
Based on the little bit of edited TV I see each week, there is always something that I don't agree with, from either Jon or Kate and sometimes both of them. I just don't feel the need to go all crazy about the small stuff that I don't agree with.
I do, however, have an issue with people making fun of the kids and saying they need mental health evals. Hence the reason I choose to post here and not elsewhere.
Which brings me to... if you don't like how this blog is being managed then you don't have to post here.
As a side-note, Jon and Kate may bicker but I do think they love each other. I can see it when they kid each other like they were when Jon was eating his 2nd piece of cake.
Anon 7:30,
I'm sure you are very well meaning but you have absolutely no idea what is going on behind the scenes. The only reason you cannot see first hand the anger and venom is being spewed at this site is because the comments are not being posted. Rest assured, they are being saved as Nina Bell said. I am telling you that I am certain that what FGF is reporting is true. How I know, you will not be privy to. Quite honestly, I don't care if you believe it and neither do any of us really.
Since you basically asked for attention, I'm going to give it to you. Hope this doesn't cause whining about being "mean" later but here goes:
It was not until Jodi actually appeared on Julie's blog that some of you believed.
Uh, yeah, that's called being appropriately skeptical of what a hate group purports as truth. We're sheeple...right? But yet, when we don't act that way, the anti's get their panties up in a bunch and get so upset..."Wait a minute....you are supposed to blindly accept what I say" Sorry...no such luck.
Now there are the doubts are replaced with "why did she do it?" "I have lost all respect for her".
This is where you're confused...Read posts that were written days and even weeks before the video. There are plenty of us that think that what Jodi is doing is crass, tacky, and makes her look ridiculous. A 1:10 second video where she (who's integrity is questionable) says "Julie's blog is true" does not prove anything except that she is behind the side of the story that her sister is telling. In case you didn't know, there are 2 sides to every story. So once again, the "anti's" get so upset that we're not blindly accepting Jodi's proclamation of truth. Until she walks on water...I think I'll steer clear of making her a deity who's word is final.
Now, there is another mention of a board, no one wait - now all of a sudden there are two boards.
And once again, if you had your listening ears on (or reading eyes), you would see that the boards in question were always a controversial topic around here. In fact, people called FGF a liar among other things. She finally outed them last night and anyone who was on last night got hard core proof that what she was saying is true. Once again, could care less if you believe it...hundreds of people saw it...if you didn't, that's your problem.
There is a comment where "I haven't been there since I decided to leave" "I don't even know I can still access it" to "that board is disappointed because the Jodi video didn't get the reaction they wanted"
Try to follow the conversation...the first 2 comments referred to the secret board. The third referred to GWoP and the lovlies that have come over from there wreaking havoc and trying to intimidate....You don't even have to see the posts that Nina Bell denied. You can just read the posts in this section from beginning to end (I know, you'll claim that you have "too much of a life" to do that).
Common sense would tell you that it would be on the first evil board - but wait "she hasn't been on that board since she left and doesn't even know if she still has access".
*sigh* it's annoying to have to keep explaining what you would know if you actually paid attention. There have been so many malicious messages on this site to the point where one of the strings had to be closed...this, my friend, is where the evident disappointment (among other things) reared its very ugly head. You don't need to go anywhere to figure it out...just hang around here for a bit...
Now, I am not blind, I don't doubt that there is at least one board - but without seeing the content how can I say "oh that was wrong" - what may be wrong to you is harmless to another. Also - without proof who can we know for sure that Serena and Sharla are directly related to this board. They are the ones who claim founded the GWOP board.
Keep rationalizing to yourself...the link has been posted previously in this thread. Images from their login page was changed for our benefit last night...those images have been saved. You see, you are believing exactly what they want you to believe. And, in a few days, they will probably lift the privacy on the board, delete the comments and move to another "more secure" location. Just because they know that if they say it never happened, people like you will hang onto their every word and believe it.
If you all decided to post somewhere else privately, and it was "exposed", if someone found the content to be offensive to them - would it be fair to say "Oh Nina Bell is behind this because so and so contributes to her board?"
GWoP was born out of the private board, not the reverse...In other words, GWoP came second. Please, Note to yourself...read before writing lengthy post..
Furthermore, no specific names were given of "who is behind it." Though we do have the s/n of one particular malicious little stalker.
I have seen the name Manda posted - well is Manda Sharla or Serena? Manda has posted here and there. So who is she?
Read around to find out...the answers are all right in this thread
Why is it when any of you jump on other commenters you are "questioning" and you have the right to question and the other person is just losing their side of the discussion?
The evidence speaks for itself...I don't need to elaborate.
But anyone who is not convinced or is even questioning this has blinders on or just jealous?
If you can't be convinced with hard evidence than I don't know what else to call it. Case in point...Many have asked "why do you call them stalkers" and the question is answered by taking a post from their blog which was approved even with the heavy moderation. But then you (I mean the collective you, not you personally) do the same thing that you accused us of doing earlier (talking out of both sides of the mouth). Then it gets qualified.."well, it wasn't posted by a mod." WHO CARES???? A wise person once said "Silence Condones"
It goes on and on...someone questions, we post evidence, they get all pissy that the evidence was posted and try to wriggle out of it by putting in qualifiers and/or personal insults.
See, I know I'm being a bitch now, but I have PMS and I am so sick and tired of the same old arguments. Stick a fork in me, I'm done (but since I'm full of drama, I'll probably keep posting).
I posted the "equally nutty" comment. Honestly, you don't see it? You don't think that driving past the Gosselin house to "get a look at the kids" and take pics of them is creepy as anything? Or that speculation on where Cara and Mady go to school is just a little frightening? Maybe the calling out of GWoP posters as "retards" and "mentally ill" is enough for you, who knows.
AbsoFREAKINlutely (except maybe the GWoP part). Hence, why I can't stand GWoP and no one here, that I know of, condones that or has driven by the Gosselin home. Neither have we made speculations about Mady's school. If you are talking about IMP...I can understand. I am not a fan of that board. I actually cannot stand a love fest on either side...That's why I post here.
I post at both places (here/GWoP,) and both places have their awesome posters and their er, rather emphatic supporters and dissenters.
I realize that I am one of the more frequent posters on here and, yeah, I can be an opinionated bitch...I don't hate Kate but I certainly don't think she's mother of the year. I do, however, freely and willingly admit my EXTREME dislike of GWoP for MANY reasons....It's not that I'm against criticism...I'm against the very things you said in the beginning of your post that you referred to as creepy. It's all over that blog...and there are some sinister people there...
Anonymous:
If you want to really know about the secret message board, I suppose that you could post some nasty stuff about the family and see if you get invited in.
OR
You could write to Serena and see what she has to say? You could ask her about the message boards.
It isn't that the message boards exist that is the big deal to many of us. It is that the "Child Rights Advocates" over at GwoP say some nasty derogatory things about these kids and their parents on those message boards in the name of advocating for them.
Seems a little disingenuous doesn't it?
So Drama,
Nina admits she has not seen the board.
but you have?
when did I say that????
No anonymous:
I saw the board last night. It's link was posted and the front page requiring a screen name and a password came up.
On the front page of their message board, a photoshopped image of horses on the beach with a donkey near it was visible. Later when some of the more extreme GwoPpers realized that we had been there, they changed the images to something else ... one derogatory toward the mother and the other one derogatory toward Nina.
"I am telling you that I am certain that what FGF is reporting is true. How I know, you will not be privy to. Quite honestly, I don't care if you believe it and neither do any of us really."
What could be possibly more compelling than the actual posts?
Ugh. She seems sincere, but why would you add to the drama? Someone said it earlier...even if what she is saying is true, at least J&K aren't throwing mud around too. Makes them look a lot better than Jodi airing out family biz.
However, I have been accused of being a GWOPer and had words put in my mouth on every post. Why? Because I say that Kate is not a great mother? She isn't, IMO. That Jodi is a better mother? She is, IMO. That I'm a better mother? I am, IMO. And there's nothing wrong with saying one mother is better than another. I work at a very high level job and people are compared and evaluated relative to other people all the time, so I don't see why motherhood should be any different (it's a job too). I don't buy the 'different styles' of motherhood to make excuses for Kate's impatience, screaming and yelling at her kids and husband. That's not a style of parenting, it's wrong.
A couple of things:
- I don't think we've seen nearly enough of Jodi's parenting to really fairly compare her against Kate, who we've seen in all sorts of stressful situations. I still think a lot of the "Jodi is a wonderful mother" is based solely on her being soft-spoken and more conforming to a feminine ideal than Kate.
- I don't know that I've ever seen Kate scream, though I've seen her yell, and be impatient. If those two things are enough to make someone a bad mother in your eyes...then I guess there are a lot of bad mothers out there.
- I don't think the analogy to a job is really that fair; most people are at least somewhat more dispassionate about their careers than about their children. I mean, if you want to set up a ranking where every mother is evaluated (by your criteria) and ranked, then fine. But I would guess than in the larger scheme of things, you yourself would then rank as a "worse" mother than a lot of other women. I mean, with all of the millions of mothers in the world, even if you were in the top 5%, there would be thousands and thousands of women who are better mothers than you are. Does that make you feel okay? Do you still see nothing wrong with judging women that way? Sure, you can say you're better than Kate, but you're probably much worse than the best mother in the world. It doesn't feel as great when you're ranking below someone rather than above them, I would guess.
- It's funny; I don't think I've ever seen a discussion about whether Jon is a better father than Kevin (or any other guy). Curious.
As far as questioning who "Manda" is and that you haven't seen a post from her here. There is a reason for that. Nina WAS letting Manda's posts through and as she argued more and more with people, her posts became more shrill and creepy and made less sense because no one was being swayed to her opinion. She became obsessive and STILL monitors this board for hours and submits comments for everyone. Nina made the decision to stop posting her comments because she was getting creepy and stalkerish. So, Manda did have posts here, but she's since been cut off for bad behavior (and juding from Nina's comments Sunday nigth, has done nothing to convince anyone that she deserves to be heard again).
As for the "outing" of the private message board called Reality TV Unlocked, we're not the only board with a whistle blower. They were outed before this on another board, by someone called "afrojo," so we've hardly broken any big news, really.
I am telling you that I am certain that what FGF is reporting is true. How I know, you will not be privy to. Quite honestly, I don't care if you believe it and neither do any of us really."What could be possibly more compelling than the actual posts?
There you go...assuming again...and jumping to conclusions. Like I said before, you will not be privy to how I know. And like I said, I really don't care if you believe me.
mcb -
You mean that "fgf" and us regulars at GDNNOP are not the only ones who think that some of the things that are posted by GwoP are a little off.
We are also in the company of "afrojo."
I love it.
You could write to Serena and see what she has to say? You could ask her about the message boards.
Thanks for the advice - I just may do that. It would be interesting to see if she is the one behind all that she is accused of.
After much digging on Bitter but Brilliant, I found some posts about the secret message board. I didn't find anything by afrojo, but from somebody called seashell. Seashell's post from Feb 16 2008 was quoted here
http://bitterbutbrilliant.rapidboards.com/index.php?showtopic=69&st=3600&rbp=85531&#entry85531
"Oh thank goodness, I am another refugee from TWOP. I am also a refugee from the new secret forum that was started in January. It was started w/ good intentions by good people but time has taken its toll. The last 3 weeks, ugh. The new site requires an invite. Sadly, it turned quite toxic this week. All the cyber stars you mention from many threads seem to be flocking to the new private site. By April it will be over the top."
But seashell edited her original post on Mar 1 2008 here
http://bitterbutbrilliant.rapidboards.com/index.php?showtopic=73&st=17450&rbp=85514&#entry85514
"Ugh, maybe I have found sanctuary. I was on TWOP sporadically. I made the mistake of posting a tiny bit more on the J&K thread recently.
These TWOP refugees view themselves as simply better, which is humorous. Some feel they write better. Parent better. Have a better sense of humor. Pocess a clever wit, beyound reproach. Then they end up expressing what they hated at TWOP. And are more toxic but in a veiled way. They think they are clever or different when all they say is stuff like, Kate is a BITCH, her kids are spoiled or delayed or emotional time bombs, etc, etc..............Anyhoo, thanks, I will read and see if saner people prevail. People that admit they make fun and can be katty, but not so serious. And not not incessant tattlers to the TWOP."
A poster called Port Authority also confirms the existence of the secret forum here
http://bitterbutbrilliant.rapidboards.com/index.php?showtopic=73&st=17450&rbp=85576&#entry85576
"I was invited onto the alternative J & K site as well. I did not choose to do that. And yet, I am one of the most hated persons on THIS board. It is a show, I have opinions, and yet, I actually listen to other people and can change my opinions, or modify them."
By the way, anonymous. I don't know that anyone is Serena is behind the private message boards as in she started them.
I do believe that she acknowledges starting the GwoP blog and that it was born out of a group of people who started chatting after the TwoP forum on J&K was closed.
The secret message board, by Serena's own admission exists. She is saying that the content isn't offensive or inconsistent with the mission of GwoP, but then again she doesn't find the derogatory posts about the Gs on her blog to be inconsistent with the mission of GwoP.
Hmmmm
Why does this (not so) secret message board bother you all so much?
"Because I say that Kate is not a great mother? She isn't, IMO. That Jodi is a better mother? She is, IMO. That I'm a better mother? I am, IMO. And there's nothing wrong with saying one mother is better than another."
Everything in this statement is wrong to me...Unless there is severe abuse of some sort and the mother is allowing it to happen, or is intentionally making a miserable living for their child. No mother is "better" than another, it's all about style.
boys4me -
Many of us find the GwoP blog to be objectionable because so many of the comments that are posted are derogatory and even vile about the G kids despite the stated mission that they are "advocating for the kids."
The secret message board is, according to a person who left that board and several other posters, is EVEN MORE VILE in it's comments about the children.
Keep in mind, this is private message board is apparently the genesis of the GwoP blog.
Now, if you are honestly asking then this should provide you with the information that you are seeking.
Then again, if you are fishing ... you already know this.
I don't read at GWOP quite honestly. I just don't see how what's said on a private board can hurt anyone. Isn't that the main concern if people are saying mean things about J&K and their children? That they could be hurt? Of course, from watching the show, they do a good job on their own of showing themselves in a negative light.
"I just don't see how what's said on a private board can hurt anyone. Isn't that the main concern if people are saying mean things about J&K and their children? That they could be hurt?"
For me, the main "concern" of the other Gosselin board and the private board is a word that starts with "H". Can you guess it? Ok, I'll give it to you --
H Y P O C R I S Y
Never liked it, never will.
"...from watching the show, they do a good job on their own of showing themselves in a negative light."
That's your opinion, which you are, of course, entitled to. Some of us don't agree. (Or at least don't agree with the over the top magnification of their faults).
Boys4Me,
Yes, there are some moments that are recorded that I'm sure J&K are not proud of. In fact, they've said that.
So Kate yells and is controlling. Ooook. Makes her a pain in the ass, doesn't make her a bad mother. Certainly doesn't make her abusive. Some of the best mother's I've met are controlling and organized. Sure, they have their flaws and they grate on people's nerves but at the end of the day they have love in their family and well-adjusted children.
I agree. No one is perfect, and thus no mother is perfect (or father, for that matter, though that doesn't seem to get talked about as much). People are imperfect in different ways. One mother is too controlling; another may be too permissive. It doesn't mean they don't love their kids, or that they aren't doing the best they can. We all damage our children in some way; it's just inevitable. We give them complexes and neuroses and issues. We just have to hope that we also give them the tools to deal with these things, and that they are resilient enough to be happy in their imperfection.
I remember reading a post from one of the most vociferous GWoP posters (hint: she loves her "Joely") stating that the Gosselin kids were "ruined" by Kate. I thought that was such an ugly thing to say. They aren't going to grow up to be perfect; some of them may not even grow up to be happy. Who knows? But I don't think Kate has "ruined" them. When posters go on about how messed up the Gosselin children are, I really feel like I'm watching a different show. Most of them seems happy most of the time, and I think right now they have a pretty good life.
You mean that "fgf" and us regulars at GDNNOP are not the only ones who think that some of the things that are posted by GwoP are a little off.
Yeah, and there is also the board that Guinevere talked about, which I checked out last night. Princess Marie Chantal, or something like that? Anyway, their J&K thread is full of negative references to the people who frequent GWoP. They also didn't think much of most of the regular TWoP posters, either (which makes perfect sense, since most of the negative posters from TWoP migrated to GWoP and RTVU).
So, basically, it shouldn't be a big shock to them. If you're going to market yourself as "experts" and the definitive place to go for Gosselin gossip and negativity, you're going to be questioned and have your credibility challenged.
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