In the tradition of another site, I am going to comment on this episode before it airs with some snarky predictions of what I expect to see. Also a good warm-up for the re-cap. It goes without saying that the following is tongue in cheek:Okay, I hope Kate doesn't make the tups use that colored ring rope like she did last year to drag the kids around like trained monkeys! Where are they going to celebrate the fourth of July this year since they have isolated themselves from everybody? No pool party at Beth's house this year huh Kate? Are Kate and Jon going to let the kids have ice-cream for dinner again or is Baskin Robbins not one of the corporate sponsors? Can't wait to watch this red, white and blue train wreck unfold!Okay, that's enough for now - my brain hurts. LOL!
Don't forget, the candy and hotdogs at the parade that are NOT organic. GASP!
I think that one of the previews show Kate hugging Aedan and saying, "Are you a crab man?" That little guy and his glasses just tickle me. He is so darn cute.
I agree about Aidan - boy that little guy is cute. Here are my predictions:The poor twins will again be abused by evil kate letting the tups get their hair braided first!Mady will cry and that will be more proof that she neeeeeeeds help. The boys will be left out of the braiding and its not because they dont have hair, its because Kate HATES them. The Olive Garden cups will again make an appearance forcing yet another online scramble to find the closest OG to the OBX. God knows this family has no business eating out, much less at such a expensive place as prestigious Olive Garden. I predict there will be 4.67 inches between Jon and Kate when they sit on the couch. This is .12 more than last week. EVIDENCE that the marriage is beyond repair. There will be no mention of Aunt Jodi.
OMG! I bet Kate has the tups carry a humongus sign that says "Gosselin 'Tups" because she is such a narcissistic bitch and wants all the attention, but of course, she forgets all about Cara and Mady because she they aren't a part of her "gravy train". Of course, this means that the twins will be scarred for life.
You guys are clever! I'll give it a try:*Kate will insist that Jenny dye her hair a shade of "Morticia Black" so Kate can be the only blond.*Alexis will be moved to a tent in the back yard so she can't bother her siblings in the middle of the night.*Joel will go missing for the entire episode and J&K won't notice. (Here's hoping a certain fervent poster whose name starts with "F" hasn't come to rescue "her Joely")....More likely to occur: there will be jealousy issues, love taps, eye rolling, grammer correction and freakouts, but all in all, the kids will have a fun time and will continue to be their adorable charming selves.
LOL Glo! That humongous sign would read: "Gosselin Tups - Do not look at them, take pictures of them or wave to them." She could just glue the yard signs to a poster board. Maybe have the tups do it as part of the projects that they do all the time." LOL! This is too easy.
Thanks for the laugh. I wish I were clever enough to make one up, too.
I'm gonna say that all of the kids will spend the night with Jenny while Kate terrorizes the nurses at the hospital where Jon is having his testicles reattached. To preface, Kate goes on and on about how Jon "really could use some of those".Some doctor saw Jon on tv and decided that he was in desperate need.;-)
I LOVED Kate's little jab at her stalkers! Did you hear her say "next thing you know we'll have the animal activists coming after us, we'll get emails ya know?" She is basically telling them their emails don't bother her. I thought this was a cute episode. I can't wait to hear what kind of "damage control" the GWoP clan can come up with! It is actually getting amusing to see what they can come up with each week. I wonder what the recap will say?
"Do you like cake?""I love cake""Do you like cake with frosting on it?""I love cake with frosting on it.""Do you like cake with strawberries on it?"Exchange between Joel and the camera guy who is there to exploit him. Didn't Joel seem exploited and scared of the big strange man sticking the camera in his face? Yeah, I didn't see it, either. Even though there were plenty of meltdowns, which is to be expected when kids are staying in a strange place and their routine is disrupted, it was a cute, loud, show. Oh, I'm sure much will be made of Kate shooing the boys away during "cakegate," since she hates them so much. I think it was Collin that gave that "look" over his shoulder after he was told to go away. But, really, that was the only bad thing I came up with. The hair braiding seemed like a nice idea, and it was obviously advertised towards kids with the pictures on the walls and the brightly colored beads to choose from. I probably wouldn't think it would hurt the way it seemed to, either. The ladies did braid awfully tightly. In the end, their girls hair was adorable. At least this week RTVU can't call Hannah "Wednesday Addams" because of her long hair hanging in her face (right, lurkers?).I think the nanny is a nice girl. The kids seem to love her (and maybe THAT is what bothers Jodi more than anything).Evidently, the Gosselins were there for two weeks and the cameras were there for one of the weeks. The other week was "camera free." Fireworks freak me out, too. I won't light them and stay as far away as possible when they are being lit. They're dangerous and I can't fault Kate for being freaked out over them.
Amen, Anna! I love reading GWoP's site for entertainment, I have to desensitize myself to a lot of the comments because I'm called a "sheeple" and other bad words there. I'm not one to blindly follow others, in fact, I watched the series for a long time until Cupcake Gate and I thought the boys were not treated fairly on that episode, I went to the net and found their blog and the Jodi controversy. I love the show, I love J&K and the kids, I do think some things are not cool, but I also don't think that judging them is cool as long as the kids seem happy. And they do. I am concerned by the way Joel is treated, I feel he is the waif and the "blacksheep" of the family and I wonder how it will affect his personality growing up. He needs special encouragement, not constant mocking:)What do you think about it. I also love reading what the GWOP blog says about each episode, they pick at every single thing...but it is only for entertainment.
When I say they are getting amusing at GWoP, I mean it's amusing to watch them make fools of themselves. They look so deep into every little thing! It is rediculous. I think all of the kids are treated fairly for the most part. They are all good kids. I don't see them doing anything different than any other 4 year old.
It's hard to do a prediction pre-show. I can say after watching it and not having read GWoP in a few days (I could barely stomach the nauseating love fest for Jodi...this is likely what you'll hear.1. Kate is such a mean, horrible ogre for forcing those girls to get their hair braided. Mady clearly didn't want the braids! When she said "I get the meanest mommy in the world" award, they will call it damage control. Of course, they will also use it to their advantage to make a point and probably say something like "yeah, Kate, we all agree with you"2.Joel not being allowed to decorate the cake will be another MAJOR issue. He is obviously treated as a second class citizen in that home. Every week, it is more and more evident.3. The Prayer....oooooh, they are just crapping themselves over that...oh, and the fact that the kids were hitting one another during it. Show's that these kids are actually demon possessed along with having a wealth of other psychological disorders.4. Kate saying "And thank you God that we live in a land where we're free" will probably be followed by "yeah, free to exploit our children and make money off of them"Oh, they are clever little bloggers at GWoP. They'll probably try to find the exact delivery service where the crabs came from.Maybe they'll say that the fireworks weren't actually illegal and that not being able to light them off was just another plot to make Cara and Mady miserable.They'll high five at Mady's version of You're a grand old Flag (You're weird people). They'll read into one of the tups pushing the camera away.They'll claim that Kate's comments about the emails are proof that they read GWoP and proof that everything is damage control.Oh yeah, probably something along the lines of "Jon should have hit Kate in the face with the water balloons..." Oh they'll be loving the comments he made about being glad to get away from her.And because St. Jodi's sister is a regular on the site, you know there will be some bashing of Jenny....I agree,it's actually fun to watch the show then watch the crazy...It's 2x the entertainment.
After watching tonight's episode, I am more convinced that Julie is full of it. To cover up the fact that her blog started after Aunt Jodi didn't get paid, she backtracked and said that it wasn't the money that upset Jodi, it was the fact that she was replaced as the Gosselin kids primary care giver when J&K hired Jenny (whom we've seen more of thes past three episodes, which were all filmed on the family vacation).How in the world is that possible? Jodi has a husband and four kids of her own. She couldn't have gone on vacation with Jon and Kate and helped with the kids. I mean, look at the fiasco that was "hairpluggate!" Jodi was stuck with 12 children to look after. It was the one show that made me cringe throughout. Even if there hadn't been a family fallout, they needed to hire someone to help. Jodi and Beth have their own families. Hiring a nanny when you have eight kids under seven seems logical to me (if you can afford it). I mean, they can't win no matter what. Before Jenny, it was "look at Kate taking advantage of poor Jodi and Beth and using them." So, they hire someone so that Jodi and Beth are no longer "taken advantage of" and it's "how dare she no longer ask Jodi to care for the kids." Good god, talk about flip flopping. Jenny seems nice and the kids like her. I can certainly see what everyone's so upset (/sarcasm).
fgf,I was just wondering if you saw my poll? Do you think they can sway it one way or the other?
LMAO. I love your poll! But you forgot GWoP!You think they get the joke?
Here is an example of the kind of magical thinking that is going on at the other blog: I find it ironic how so many things people commented on last week that the Gosselins never do happened on this episode. One of the little girls said please and thank you and they prayed before they ate. If I had blogs devoted to criticizing my parenting I would attempt to change also. I hope Jon and Kate sincerely want to do better for their children and are not doing it for show.Does this person think that Jon and Kate are actually changing their parenting based on their blog? Do they not understand that if these were filmed during the 4th of July holiday and aired last week that their commentary last week would not influence a show that aired this week because it was already filmed at least a month ago. (Does that even make sense?) Last week they were all over the fact that not one of the kids says thank you or please and that the family does not pray. This week they see the praying and displays of manners. But instead of saying, gosh we were wrong ... do they really believe that their blog is influencing parenting or even editing?
do they really believe that their blog is influencing parenting or even editing?*****Of course they do. It's all about the kids, and everyone there is a perfect parent so why wouldn't it be?
You see ... they listen to us. OMG. Talk about over-invested.
nomoredrama said... it's actually fun to watch the show then watch the crazy...It's 2x the entertainment. To a point, I agree. I am usually better off waiting a day, however, and just enjoying the episode for what it is without delving into the crazy right away.I thought this was a fun and enjoyable episode. I had a few quibbles, but they were small and didn't really amount to much. The water ballon tossing was cute and showed them at their best - enjoying each other as a family. Cuddling and watching fireworks in their jammies - also special. I take a peak over at the other blog and it's ALL negative. "Kate looks pregnant" (huh?), "Cara's nails are weirdly long" (huh, again), "My kids have never had crab and they are teens!" (Boo-hoo, poor you).There is never an issue too small or petty (or non existent)to snark on and find J&K (mainly Kate) wanting. It gets old.Anyhoo, I am back to the "Land of the Sane Blog" and all is much better now.
Yeah...not the brightest crayons in the box....July 4th means that, unless J& K have a time machine, it had nothing to do with them.It is hilarious to me how they continue to contradict themselves. Last week, someone commented on how EVIL it was of Kate to not take pictures of the kids during pudding painting.This week, Kate is an evil, photo-opping bitch who dared to take a pictures of her family!!! The greed....especially since she was taking them with her personal camera. "Why couldn't you just let Alexis go to the bathroom?" Because , generally, it takes all of 30 seconds to shoot a picture when the kids are not cranky. But this, this is abuse...that's it, I'm calling CPS, LOL!I did feel bad that Joel didn't get to help with the cake but, by the time he had gotten there, the girls already had assigned jobs and were in the process of decorating. It would have only frustrated the girls...Someone on GWoP actually said that Kate should have had 8 separate cakes with 8 sets of blueberries and strawberries...Damn, you, Kate! How dare you want a dessert that served more than just the kids! You didn't have a house full of people or anything....*Puke*
I guess I will be thought of as nitpicky, but I don't see why Mady and Cara had to get any braids in their hair. I guess they should be grateful they weren't forced to get cornrows. Also I think it was sad that Joel wasn't allowed to help with the cake, just wash his hands and let him put a few pieces of fruit on and include the little guy, and that was a sad look he gave.I'm not going to refrain from saying things I don't like in the episodes I watch just because people at GWoP may also be saying the same thing. I thought the kids were so cute when Jenny was doing her magic trick, then I think it was Collin trying to do it too, so cute. They seem like they are enjoying Jenny. The kids were cute when they were talking about their favorite things they did on the trip.That last part brought back good memories of when I was a kid and we would go to the same lake house every 4th of July. We would get in our pajamas and sit on the dock with our parents and watch the fireworks over the lake. Looks like the kids had lots of fun.
Linda I was actually the person who made that comment on the other website. I mentioned the part about them changing their behavior only because I knew otherwise they would not have posted my comment. I was more trying to make a point to all the people who said last week the children have awful manners and they never pray that those things actually do happen but are not aired. I realize my point did not come across clearly. I do not beleive Jon and Kate should be changing their behavior because of the blog but I knew if I said so my comment would be posted. I hope that makes sense.
Yes, it follows that since they believe J&K SHOULD change their personalities to suit the whims of GWoP loonies, they pounce on signs that J&K HAVE changed said behavior to address their "concerns." And then they get offended when we call them crazy. Sheesh. Stop acting so crazy, and I'll stop calling you crazy.In other news, I thought this was another cute episode. I loved Collin mimicking Jenny with the quarter trick, "count down from three..."There seemed to be less tension between J&K, which was nice to see. I did notice something that hasn't really occurred to me before - for all that Kate gets complained about for the way she talks to and about Jon (with some reason, I admit), she also has moments of saying nice things to him or about him. But Jon, at least lately, seems almost always to be passive-aggressive or sarcastic towards Kate. I like Jon, but I found this interesting in light of how much more flak she gets for her treatment of him. I did kind of wince when he intimated that she didn't know what country America had won independence from. Ouch - not much respect for his wife's intellect, there.A quick review of the "other blog" reveals the usual baseless complaints and criticisms; the two silliest to me were:- The bitching about the braids, and how mean Kate was to force the girls to get them. Kate said clearly that she hadn't known they would hurt, she felt bad about doing it, and she wouldn't do it again. What do they want her to do, build a time machine and go back in time so she doesn't force the awful ordeal of the braids on her daughters?- The criticism of Kate for asking Aaden to request his strawberry in a non-whiny voice. It's criticisms like that that make me think none of these women are mothers, or if they are, they have been raising their kids in caves and have never read a word of parenting advice. Correcting your kids when they whine and having them repeat themselves in a non-whiny voice is pretty much Parenting 101, not some capricious cruelty that Kate's twisted mind has dreamt up.Actually, I thought there were several examples of really good parenting from Kate tonight - her handling of the fireworks discussion with Mady showed a lot of patience and reasonableness. I like Mady a lot, but her contrariness and whining were working my nerves tonight, so I give Kate credit for handling it with such aplomb.
Yes, they do think their blog influences the show. They think the whole WORLD is turning on J&K because of them. Their delusion is a riot. The best part is that these shows were taped weeks before we see them but they think the comments they make after the previous weeks episode somehow change how J&K do things. Didnt they comment last week on how the family isnt really Christian because they never pray? Now this week they did, but the prayer was fake! How many 4 yr olds can pull off a prayer like that when they have never ever done it before?
Last week they were all over the fact that not one of the kids says thank you or please and that the family does not pray. Okay, as long as I've watched this show (from the beginning) the Gosselins ALWAYS made them say "please" and "thank you." If you go back to the beginning when we first saw them sitting at the "big people table." Kate was talking as Jon was serving them their food with utensils (I think it was the show where she makes blueberry/banana pancakes) and she says that she knows they're still at the learning stage, but they try to make them use a fork and that "please" and thank you" are a must. So, I don't know what show the GWoPPERS have been watching all this time, but I've seen/heard the kids use manners the whole time and I know I''ve heard Kate say to the group "say thank you," to adults who showed them around on the many places they've visited.They must be getting the Gosselin kids confused with the Roloffs, because those kids don't use manners or respect their parents or themselves, especially the boys. As far as the praying, just because TLC chooses not to show them praying before meals doesn't mean they don't. In fact, most of the time, displays of religion are usually discouraged on TV shows because not all fans feel comfortable with particular forms of religion. We saw their church, but we didn't hear any sermon or references to God in the Sunday School scenes and that was probably purposely done. I prefer my shows to be "preach free." It's one of the things that makes me uncomfortable watching the Duggars is when they whip out the bible study. Last night's prayer was probably shown more for the cute factor than because a bunch of crones on the Internet demanded it. Give me a break. (insert eyes rolling so far back into my head that I can see behind me)
I agree that Kate shouldn't have forced the kids to get their hair braided but, evidently, so does Kate. Like someone already said, Kate felt really bad about it and IMO, it was genuine. I'm sure others will argue the opposite. I also agree that she is controlling and doesn't like to be inconvenienced. However, I firmly believe she is a loving Mother. Everytime she does anything that shows this, certain people say it's damage control. Like for example, last night when she picked up Aadan. He was smiling the whole time but people twist it to say that he looked "unsure" of himself or weirded out. As Guinevere said, this is one of the reasons we call GWoP crazy. What they say is simply not true...but heaven forbid it is challenged.
team_herbie: I get your point that they wouldn't have posted on the other site if you hadn't been worded it that way. I apologize if including it here made you feel bad.
Linda Thank you for your apology. I have not felt bad because it was included in here. Only last night did I find this website. My comments were often not posted over there because they were actually nice to the Gosselins and not negative. I was in my own way being sarcastic because I know that others actually feel they are making a difference to Kate and Jon.
team_herbie: Thank you for coming over and posting. Thanks also for your acceptance of my apology. Alot of us found this board because our comments offering another perspective never saw the light of day on GwoP and we looked for a more neutral place to post. Welcome and please post more often.
The criticism of Kate for asking Aaden to request his strawberry in a non-whiny voice. You have GOT to be kidding me. I actually applaud that she did that. Nothing is more annoying than a whiny kid (once again, I use the Roloffs as an example. Whiny teenagers who were never corrected as children). I've done the same thing to mine. "I'll get you what you want if you can ask me without whining." Absolutely.My eyes are starting to hurt from all the rolling back into my head. Someone on GWoP actually said that Kate should have had 8 separate cakes with 8 sets of blueberries and strawberries.Jeeeze. How many people is she planning to feed? That's just crazy and anyone with eight children is not going to waste money or food in that manner! EIGHT CAKES? SERIOUSLY?I think they're running out of things to whine about and are just nit picking everything now. Trouble is, they're starting to sound unhinged ("starting?").
I'm glad someone mentioned the exchange little Aaden had with the camera person. That was just so darn cute. He is a little doll and you could tell he was really engaged in that conversation with someone he knew well. I hated the cornrows imposed on the girls, that was mean, and I didn't like little Joel not being able to help with the cake. Did you see his face? But you are right, that Aaden (crab man) made the program worth it.
Okay everybody - the recap is done and I just sent it off to Nina. Hopefully after Nina reads through the lengthy article and I recover from my writer's cramp, you will be able to read my parody. Get the monkey munch ready!
Regarding the corn rows--I had them put in my hair when I was six on vacation, and yes, it was uncomfortable because the stylist must pull the hair very tight, but it was not torture by any means. It didn't hurt any worse then when my mother would sometimes comb knots out of my hair and occasionally pull. I certainly don't think having her girl's hair done makes her an evil mother.
mcb: Just to respond, I too thought it was very good that Kate asked Aaden to say what he wanted without whining and he'd get it. Positive reinforcement. I have to say that whining gets on my nerves, too, and if she can stop that she's done a good thing for all of them.
I really don't get saying that having the braiding done was mean. Kate thought it would be a good idea for practical reasons, and probably also thought it would look cute (and it did). The girls weren't tortured. I see plenty of young children (usually African American) with cornrows, so I think the horrors inherent in hair-braiding are being overstated a bit. I'm sure it hurt a bit when it was being done, and Kate obviously felt bad about that. I love the Gosselin kids, but they all tend to be a little whiny, so I didn't take the whining and crying as necessarily an indication that the braiding was horribly painful.I didn't notice any devastation on Joel's face when he was turned away from the cake decorating, but I do believe it could have been handled better. I think when Kate does stuff like that with the kids (e.g. the pottery painting), her desire to make nice memories with them wars with her perfectionism. So I think she sort of wanted to have the decorating be a group project, but she also sort of didn't. I found it odd that when the time came, she didn't want to "disturb" their playing, and yet only the girls wandered in to help. Knowing Kate's weird gender role issues, I'm a little suspicious about that. But even if she had gotten them all lined up and properly scrubbed, I think eight kids would be a bit too many to have "helping" on the project. I'm not suggesting their should have been eight cakes (!), but maybe she could have set up a separate project (like coloring homemade flags, or something), and let each kid choose which he or she wanted to do. Anyway, I don't see it as that big a deal; it seemed to me the decorating was almost done by the time Joel came by.Another absurd complaint I saw on GWoP: that Kate is a lazy hag for having the kids use paper plates, and if she is going to use them, she should have bought sturdier ones (Chinet or whatever they're called). The latter complaint is typical nitpicking, but the former one bugged me. They are on VACATION, you know? Maybe Kate doesn't feel like doing a sinkful of dishes; it's her vacation too. (And yes, I know I've seen them use paper plates at home, as well. Big whoop. It's not the most environmentally sound decision, but it hardly makes Kate a monster. I just see it as more judgment arising from GWoPpers' ideas about motherhood, which they seem to perceive as involving endless sacrifice and toil for one's family.)And the carping over the kids getting to eat crab. Jeez. No jealousy there. Instead of bitching because you've apparently never been able to afford to feed your kids crab, even though they are teenagers, maybe you should count your blessings and think of how many kids in the world went to bed without anything in their stomachs last night.
Linda I definately am feeling the same way. My comments were rejected many times. The most agrivating was when I responded to someones comment which said " Shut up Cara" I thought this was over the line! Isn't the point of their blog to look out for the children! I was offended someone would say that of an 8 yr old. My comment was rejected however!
If I had that many people eating at the same time I would also have paper plates. In fact, I've given many a party where I've used china and many where I've used paper plates. If that's all Kate does that anyone wants or need to comment upon, she's doing a super job. The kids, other than when the twins wanted to go home and were missing their usual parade stuff, looked to me like they were having a really good time, especially with the fireworks. Yeah, Joel's face was very downhearted-looking when he was rejected from the cake decorating crew. The camera zoomed right in on that little face. He got over it, but the gender role thing is sometimes strange to me. Lots of chefs are men, lots of very successful chefs, no?
"Cakegate" (isn't that what they will probably call it at GWoP?) once again showed how rigid Jon and Kate are in their gender roles, which I find to be asinine. What I don't understand is why people find it so shocking when Jon and Kate are self-professed strong Christians. Am I wrong in thinking that traditional gender roles are encouraged in many sectors of the Christian faith?
Team_Herbie said... "The most agrivating was when I responded to someones comment which said " Shut up Cara" I thought this was over the line! Isn't the point of their blog to look out for the children! I was offended someone would say that of an 8 yr old. My comment was rejected however!" ************************Hi Team Herbie (love the name by the way). It's interesting you brought this up because I remember the same comment except that as I recall, it wasn't just a comment, but contained in one of their episode recaps and the writer used the phrase not once, but twice. I think the fact that it was prominently displayed in one of their features speaks volumes.Honestly, to pick on Cara is a bit much, don't you think? She's a sweetheart that causes so little drama. And she was just upset that Leah killed the spider. (A darling moment aside from the fact that it upset poor Cara. Leah was quite proud of herself!).
I was very uncomfortable with Jon praising and encouraging Leah about killing the spider. Collin & Cara were very interested in watching it. It wasn't hurting anyone. Not a good idea to tell any kid that killing is good. Alexis would never have killed it because I know that at least she, Aaden, Cara, Collin and Mady are animal lovers. We've seen that over and over.Cara is another side of a coin in that she holds in or seems to hold in her emotions. Mady tells it like it is at the moment. I think we will see the twins less and less because probably they don't want to be on camera much anymore and, as someone else said, a child is always a "loose cannon" -- they don't always say or do what you want them to and they can sure call you liar at the most inopportune moments.
Hi Team Herbie - I also had a comment rejected that expressed the same concern over the "shut up" comment. It never saw the light of day. But remember, they are doing this blog "for the kids". Yeah right!
People at the other blog seem to be really "concerned" with Cara and Mady's breakdowns. What do you all think about their behavior? Is it that bad for children their age to cry like the twins?
I so enjoyed the 4th of July episode...It was adorable with the kids at the end cuddling up watching fireworks, Joel talking to the camera man, Leah telling Collin to cut up his cake, Mady singing for us, etc.Speaking of the GWoP site and the "snarking" they will do. I find it apaling really, and I find no desire to go back. But I do have to mention this, after Aunt Jodi's blog many posters said they are done watching the show. Ironic they say this but know every single detail of the show, kind of like they might have watched this horrid family exploit their children!!
I have to agree about the cake deal. Things like that usually don't bother me, but I have a little boy and I wouldn't tell him he couldn't participate because his hands might be dirty. I do own soap. As for the rest of the show, I thought it was cute. The kids are just so adorable.....Question, I read a comment from gwop on another board about Cara's fingernails. Anyone know what that was about?
I have a 7 year old son and he does not cry like that. He is far more mellow. However, my other child is 10 years old and has often displayed dramatic outbursts like both C & M do. In my opinion it is a matter of their temperament. fanny -- I'm not sure what the deal was on the fingernails either. I did notice that it was commented upon alot. I wonder what it is about?
People at the other blog seem to be really "concerned" with Cara and Mady's breakdowns. What do you all think about their behavior? Is it that bad for children their age to cry like the twins?I think it really depends from child to child. Mady seems by far the moodier twin, and I think that's just her personality. In and of itself, I certainly don't feel confident saying that she has psychological problems based on what we see on the show. Cara doesn't seem as emotional, but she does cry sometimes. Honestly, I've seen plenty of 7-year-olds that cry that much. Question, I read a comment from gwop on another board about Cara's fingernails. Anyone know what that was about?Supposedly, her nails are long; I haven't actually noticed, myself.
Do you all over here have any opinions about Kate homeschooling the children? People at other blogs seem to take it as a fact that she will homeschool but I don't understand where that came from.
I do recall during the episode where the twins got their instruments, Kate told Cara that she would need to cut off her fingernails (in order to play the piano), and then they proceeded to show Kate doing so. If Cara's nails are long again (frankly, I didn't notice), I wonder if that means she is no longer taking piano lessons?
Cara's finger nails were actually pretty long...it looked for a brief second like a manicure. I wonder if they are really like that or if she was just playing with fake nails. I used to do that as a kid...Ironic, I never get my fingernails done now (always the pedicure though, LOL). I kind of agree that its weird if Cara's fingernails are that long but I certainly wouldn't call it "dangerous" as the lovelies have implied. People at the other blog seem to be really "concerned" with Cara and Mady's breakdowns. What do you all think about their behavior? Is it that bad for children their age to cry like the twins? I'm not convinced that these tantrums can be considered breakdowns. Plus, half the time when we see them crying, we don't know what preceded it. What if a sib did something mean and it wasn't caught on camera. All you see is a kid crying for seemingly no reason. I don't think we have enough evidence to really assess whether what is going on is clinically significant...from what I see, it doesn't seem that way.
I thought the episode was cute. Those kids are so darn adorable! I wasn't crazy about Kate making the hair braiding an issue - if she doesn't want it, who cares? I just wanted to say that when Cara was crying during the family picture, I really thought she had the look of an overly tired child. Maybe not. Just my observation.
"I just wanted to say that when Cara was crying during the family picture, I really thought she had the look of an overly tired child." *************************************Thank you! A rational explanation based on the evidence at hand that doesn't involve huge leaps of logic and/or conjecture for the sole purpose of making J&K appear like bad parents. Imagine that! A 7-year-old away from the comforts of home and tired. Crying?! Will wonders never cease?Honestly, thank you - you don't realize how much I value coming here and reading the opinions of people who seem to have interacted with "real" children and aren't nitpicking every freakin thing they do.
The thing that would make the Mady and Cara meltdowns unreasonable for their age would be whether they happen frequently, imo. The tv viewers don't have a real, objective picture of that, because of the artificial pov we're given by the show. I'm sure that the editing of the show tilts in favor of including meltdown-style clips over peaceful quiet ones.
And they have 6 four year old siblings. Perhaps there is some regression for attention. Happens all the time with older siblings when there are younger children in the home. Kids who were potty trained can start to wet themselves. Things of that nature. These things happen in many, many everyday families that don't have cameras in the home.
Glo: I agree that their gender roles are asinine. I grew up in a Christian home and like to think that I have provided one for my children also. The concept is basically that the man is the head of the household (as Christ is the head of the Church) and the woman is to submit (to the man's authority as head of the house) For all the seemingly rigid gender stereotyping they do, I do not see Jon being the head of the household and Kate submiting. I have two girls 29,27 and a boy 24. We never worried about him playing with the girls dolls anymore than we worried about my girls playing baseball. He was actually neater and cleaner than the girls. My son can cook, clean and do laundry and my girls can all work power tools! It broke my heart when Kate wouldn't let Joel help with the cake. Some of the best chefs are men!!!!!!!!!!
mrsref: "I do not see Jon being the head of the household and Kate submitting."That is one of the reasons why I find it so perplexing that Jon and Kate appear to be so rigid in the gender roles they assign and expect from their children. On the other hand, I have always been under the impression that in most "traditional" households, like my grandparents, the woman's voice was heard and it was more of an equal partnership behind closed doors.
On another subject to the people who run this site: I love the picture of "best friends" you have on your first page today. Thanks.
Glo: I agree with you about the more "traditional" households. I don't know what goes on behind closed doors at the G's but it does not seem that Jon is in charge at all. It does seem contrary to what they claim to believe. I do think the gender roles they assign are very sad. Boys are not disgusting and dirty - in fact my son was the most loving and affectionate of all of my children. He is getting married in October and it makes me sad for the days when he was my little boy. His wife to be is very lucky though, he can cook, clean and do laundry as we did not do the gender thing. I remember his pre-school teacher commenting because when they played house, he was the daddy and did the cooking. She thought it was strange until we explained that my husband did the cooking at our house too. (he worked nights and I worked days to avoid daycare)
Do you believe that Jon *should* be in charge? I am not Christian, but I guess I don't see that as a requirement of all Christians, at least not one that the Christians I know worry much about. I do think the Gosselins have weird gender issues, though.I think Kate goes overboard with the "boys are yucky" business, but I also don't think she means much by it. She's just a germaphobe, and her perception is that girls are more fastidious (and maybe her girls are, though in my experience most 4-year-olds need a little help in attending to personal hygiene). Nevertheless, she should cool it with the statements, I think. I just don't think she means that the boys are "disgusting" in as bad a way as it sounds.
I didn't say Jon should be in charge. I was answering a question posed about the Christian perspective of it all. Without getting into a big discussion, the Bible states that the man is the head of the house. That would be Jon. The Bible says the woman should submit to his authority that would be Kate. And it "sounds" to me like she thinks boys are disgusting. She has said it several times. After turning Joel away from the cake decorating, she pointed out once again how icky and disgusting boys are. Words hurt especially when they are spoken by your own parents.
mrsref,My brothers and sisters were raised in the 60's in a Catholic household. My mother made sure all of us were able to cook and clean and we all had inside jobs assigned as well as outside jobs. To this day my brother's wives thank my mom for doing that.
I didn't say Jon should be in charge. I was answering a question posed about the Christian perspective of it all. Without getting into a big discussion, the Bible states that the man is the head of the house. That would be Jon. The Bible says the woman should submit to his authority that would be Kate.Eh. The Bible says a lot of things that contemporary Christians ignore, in my experience. I haven't heard J or K say anything that indicates they believe she should be submissive to him. So I'm thinking it's a non-issue for them.
As I look back, I realize that there were many moments in episodes where I thought how polite the children were for their age. At least the tups. They are also very affectionate with each other, kissing and hugging. I used to tell my twins to hug and kiss and make up when they had a quarrel or one would grab the other's toy. And yes! They did do things that weren't nice. Imagine that! 2 and 3 year olds grabbing and bashing LOL!I enjoyed the 4th of July episode. I recorded it and watched it last night (so I can fast forward through the commercials) and it had me remember fondly my husband's family vacations to Virginia Beach. There were always tons of kids around and some were whining, others were happy. Just depended on the time of day. Yup, I did notice that Jon seemed a little nit picky during the interview session but I think these two might have that kind of relationship. Kind of a "gotcha" thing. I don't understand why, but I don't think of it as a sign they are sick of each other and are getting divorced LOL! Might just even be that they are simply tired. I'm really cranky when I'm tired!
Yup, I did notice that Jon seemed a little nit picky during the interview session but I think these two might have that kind of relationship. Kind of a "gotcha" thing. I don't understand why, but I don't think of it as a sign they are sick of each other and are getting divorced LOL! Might just even be that they are simply tired. I'm really cranky when I'm tired!I don't mind them being kind of kidding-mean to each other. It may appall some people, but it mostly seems to work for them. There are times when I've sensed a little more tension, the feeling that it's not quite all kidding. That's a little uncomfortable to watch. It certainly doesn't mean that they are headed for divorce court! That said, IMO (not that J&K asked me), they need better communication. Kate needs to learn to let go a bit (okay, a lot); if she wants help from Jon, she needs to let him do stuff his way. Even if it's not the best way, in her mind, she undermines her own requests for help by micromanaging. Jon needs to stop being so damn passive-aggressive. If he has a problem with her, he needs to vocalize it, and not under his breath or behind his back. She treats him like one of her kids at times, but he acts like one of her kids, at times. As Kate would say, it's not attractive.
Guinevere said... "If he has a problem with her, he needs to vocalize it, and not under his breath or behind his back. She treats him like one of her kids at times, but he acts like one of her kids, at times." True. He also rolls his eyes a lot in true teenager fashion.I gotta believe their relationship works for them. They have been married 10 years, right?Maybe just maybe he LIKES her to be in charge. If I were going into battle, I think I might want Kate Gosselin on my side!Seriously, I am sure their relationship has many complexities that we are not privy to.
The whole submissive issue aside, I really wish they would show a little more respect to each other, especially in front of the kids. I also wish that Jon would step for the kids. I had a step-father who sat and watched as my mother reigned terror on 4 of her 6 children and he never said a word. I have zero respect for him as a result of his complacency while she tore our family apart. Sorry but I get a little passionate over this issue. Just sometimes you have to speak up for your kids because they can't always speak for themselves.
Anon at 5:50 p.m. "I really wish they would show a little more respect to each other, especially in front of the kids." I don't disagree with you. It would seem a united front would be even more important when you are outnumbered the way they are! That said, I think they are who they are. They communicate the way they communicate. I don't think we are going to change them. I don't think they will change unless *they* together conclude they need to do better. "I also wish that Jon would step for the kids. I had a step-father who sat and watched as my mother reigned terror on 4 of her 6 children..." I am sorry for what you have gone through and I agree the parent who sits back and lets the other parent abuse a child is just as responsible as the abuser.That said, I have to strongly disagree with your assertion (I think this is what you are suggesting) that Kate "reigns terror" on her family. I just haven't seen that. Some mistakes in parenting - sure. But, nothing that personally leads me to think that Jon needs to step in for the purpose of controlling Kate.
The whole submissive issue aside, I really wish they would show a little more respect to each other, especially in front of the kids.They're both guilty of it, I agree. Kate shouldn't call Jon a 'ding dong' in front of his kids. It's kindergarten 101: no name calling.
I do not believe mrsref was trying to imply that Kate should be submissive to Jon. She was just responding to my assertion that more traditional gender roles appear to be fairly common in people who have a strong Christian faith. That is not to say that all Christians subscribe to traditional gender roles or that they should do so. IMO, Jon and Kate seem to have some concerns about Joel's behavior in regards to him being too feminine, which would be completely unfounded in a four-year-old with five sisters. I think that is why Kate sent him away from the cake decorating. She may be trying to steer him into being more "manly."
I'm glad someone mentioned about stepfathers because more than once, although I know it is certainly not the case, I have thought Jon was treated as a stepfather (treated by Kate) to these kids in that she always has the last word or nearly always and seems to be the definitive authority on all things pertaining to the kids and really everything in their lives. Maybe that's just what we see on TV, but I've known families who have blended and sometimes the stepdad is too passive to step up and step in and speak his mind and change a situation. How odd it is that sometimes Jon (although I think he is a funny and nice guy) is just too deferential for the good. Like Hyacinth and Richard in the old Brit-com "Keeping Up Appearances", I long to see Jon (like Richard) finally say to Kate "Sit down and shut up".
Oh, I don't believe anyone ever said the cameraman was there to exploit the kids. Come on.I thought it was very cute that Aaden had that exchange with someone he obviously knew and really probably wanted to know why his friend wasn't having a piece of cake, too. All the kids are just so personable, each in their own way.Figure 8, if they are exploiting the kids, could not do it without K&J. So their cameraman, come on. Maybe you were joking about that?
GLO said... "Jon and Kate seem to have some concerns about Joel's behavior in regards to him being too feminine, which would be completely unfounded in a four-year-old with five sisters. I think that is why Kate sent him away from the cake decorating. She may be trying to steer him into being more "manly." Perhaps. We have seen they have very rigid (in my opinion) ideas about gender roles. That said, I really thought the whole Joel-didn't-get-to-help-with-the-cake "fuss" might have a simple explanation. 1) Joel's hands probably weren't clean (to Kate's satisfaction anyway) and 2) He came late to the cake making and Kate already had enough "helpers". Not saying she shouldn't have let him help, but she already was managing the five girls.
I'm glad someone mentioned about stepfathers because more than once, although I know it is certainly not the case, I have thought Jon was treated as a stepfather (treated by Kate) to these kids in that she always has the last word or nearly always and seems to be the definitive authority on all things pertaining to the kids and really everything in their lives. Maybe that's just what we see on TV, but I've known families who have blended and sometimes the stepdad is too passive to step up and step in and speak his mind and change a situation. How odd it is that sometimes Jon (although I think he is a funny and nice guy) is just too deferential for the good.I think you're giving Jon too much credit and not enough blame for the situation. I suspect he prefers in general not to have the responsibility of "the final say". I think for both of them it's a double-edged sword, because he doesn't really want the responsibility of being in charge, but he resents Kate for her bossiness and my-way-or-the-highway attitude, whereas Kate wants him to help more and "step up", but she's so controlling that she gets anxious when he does, either because of her loss of control, or because he's not doing things as she would do them, or both.
I think you are right Guinevere. It is a double edge sword and he is in a no-win situation. I am perplexed by Kate's control issues though. On the one hand, she wants everything done her way and wants to be in charge (which I totally get) but then she does this whole helpless thing (like making him set the GPS or not being able to put gas in the car etc.) As a mother of 2 girls, I want them to be able to take care of such things without a man - change a tire, get directions, operate equipment and stuff. It is almost a safety issue like in the case of changing a tire or something. I also want my son to be able to cook, clean and take care of himself if there is no woman in the picture. It is 2008 and there should be no "damsels in distress." What is your take on this?
MrsRef said... I am perplexed by Kate's control issues though. On the one hand, she wants everything done her way and wants to be in charge (which I totally get) but then she does this whole helpless thing (like making him set the GPS or not being able to put gas in the car etc.) This is an interesting observation I hadn't given much thought to before, but I do agree with you.In thinking about it, Kate reminds me of my aunt. My aunt wants to be control and in charge of everything in her life that she feels confident and/or competent in. If she doesn't feel confident and/or competent (or it doesn't interest her), she plays the "helpless card" every time. She also has a built-in excuse because she is very near-sighted (which is valid in some instances, but she uses it for EVERYTHING she doesn't want to deal with).So that's my take. Maybe this has something to do with Kate's dual personality, i.e. if she's not 100%confident of her abilities in something, she doesn't want to be in charge of it.Just speculating!
Genev: You are absolutely right on concerning the double edged sword, I think.And someone mentioned above that the reason Jon had to be in the hair salon was that Kate doesn't drive? Since when doesn't she drive? I'm sure I've seen her driving.
My take was going to be exactly like Anya's - Kate is, I think, very insecure, and tends to be super-emphatic about the stuff she thinks she knows - the right way to do this or that. But in situations where she's not the expert, she'd rather not even learn, because it threatens her sense of control.This is my pop-psych take on it. I don't pretend to have any training in human behavior, except for a couple of psychology classes, and obviously I don't know Kate IRL. But I do feel like I've known a few women who were like her in certain respects. Hell, *I'm* like her in certain respects! I would not walk barefoot on a hotel room carpet, either! But I don't pretend that *I'm* right about it; I know it's just my neuroses speaking. Also, the way she can be very overcautious with the kids - I can relate to that a lot.Kate drives, as far as I know. But I think she doesn't like to drive the big van, and maybe that was all they had with them on the trip? I don't know.
I think you are right Guinevere. It is a double edge sword and he is in a no-win situation. I am perplexed by Kate's control issues though. On the one hand, she wants everything done her way and wants to be in charge (which I totally get) but then she does this whole helpless thing (like making him set the GPS or not being able to put gas in the car etc.) Sometimes, when people go through this struggle ("I want independence but I'm dependent") there can be a need to be taken care of. Everyone has that need growing, some get it met, some don't. Sometimes people who are "overly" taken care of or left to fend for themselves with carry this pathological need in adulthood to have their needs met.COntrol is a life long, learned, entrenched defense mechanism. It may be that those who learn it cannot trust that anyone outside of themselves will meet their needs (though they so desperately want to be proven wrong). But, it's safer to manage and control than make oneself vulnerable for rejection. People who keep their world in order like that can tend to use that as a way to avoid emotions. Not every day emotions, the tough ones that you'd rather not feel or remember. That said, since I've never met Kate, this is certainly not a diagnosis...I could never ethically determine anything about her from a television show. I'm just talking about a pattern for people who have control issues in general.
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