Sunday, November 2, 2008

Sound Off-New House

What do you think about the new house and the manner in which it has been discovered? Is this an invasion of privacy?

No anonymous posting please.

209 comments:

1 – 200 of 209   Newer›   Newest»
merryway said...

How National Enquirery of them.

Nice house! Now I'm jealous.

vesna said...

The house on GWoP IS the house the Gosselin's bought. It wasn't purchased in their name though. The deed shows their attorney as the trustee. I guess they're trying to keep it quiet since they paid over a million dollars for it. People might view them differently now, and the love offerings and freebies might stop. They're not the "normal" family anymore that they try to portray. It is a beautiful property though, isn't it? I know I would be very happy there!

Pam said...

I really don't see it as an invasion of privacy. It's all in public records. A little searching brings it all up.

NMD for Ninabell said...

Just a word about the freebies, they never stop. Companies love to bestow celebrities with their products. They feel it is a great way of advertising. The more successful you are the more freebies you will get

Pam said...

Beautiful house, I found it on Live Search. Looks like a horse may be in the kids future- there is a barn and what looks like a huge pasture area. The house is pretty secluded. No pesky neighbors to bother the Gosselins!

nomoredrama said...

Pam,
I moved your post on the other thread here....so you'll see the second "Pam" comment is the copied one from the other thread.

Voice of Reason said...

I'm getting bugged by the some people's implication that buying a house using a trust is somehow perpetuating a con.

There are at least two legitimate reasons to purchase a house through a trust.

1. Physical security. If you're famous, having the house in a trust makes it a bit harder for the nutcases and dangerous people to find you. While the Gosselins aren't nearly as famous as Brad and Angelina, they certainly have attracted a fair amount of negative attention, to put it kindly.

2. Financial security. When assets are over a certain level, estate attorneys often recommend a trust be created for your surviving children. All assets should be placed in the trust to avoid going to probate. Your house should be part of the trust as well. That's just sound financial planning.

FIONA said...

So how do you think GWoP stumbled upon this info? Julie, thru Jodi maybe? That would be a shame if there is a chance that Jon and Kate are attempting to mend the fences...if Jodi blabbed to her sister again.

On the other hand, it will eventually be known to all anyway.

I guess they can afford it, so what do I care.

Kate Gosselin is going to be around for a L O N G in my opinion. I don't think she and her family have even begun to tap the market.

Kimberely said...

I'm happy that they have a beautiful new house.

I think the way GWOP revealed it is so typical of the way they do things. Sarcastically, mockingly, harshly, they make every little thing a big issue, if they can find a way to criticize the Gosselins they will. Those people have ugly souls. They can take any little thing about the Gosselins and make it negative, and the house is no exception. As a fan of the show, I can't understand that ugliness and anger about J&K Plus 8. If I don't like a show, I just don't watch it, unlike these people who seem to hate it, yet watch it obsessively and then critique every move every person on the show makes.

I'm so glad this site is here. I'm happy to read comments from people who watch a show that they actually like.

jmo

Stefanie said...

I read about this a little at GWoP, but are we 100% sure they purchased this house? I think it is a beauitiful house with grea property that the kids will love. I think it is a little bit an invasion of privacy, yes this will all be public record, but when people are using tools at work to search for information not work related IMO it crosses a line. I worked for a lawyer in my town and he had clients who I knew and grew up with and I could have pulled their file and looked inside, but I never did unless it was work related. Same thing with medical records, you dont search them just because you are a nurse, you only do so when it is work related. They will still get freebies because it is great advertising for companies, so we cant expect that to stop anytime soon.

themrs said...

if you want privacy, then take your kids off tv. it's a beautiful home, so i hope they appreciate and enjoy it. but i don't want to hear another word about layaway, stretching the food budget, or saving for trips that we all know they don't pay for.

FIONA said...

I was just thinking, wouldn't it be great if we see a holiday special in the new home, complete with Beth and Bob, Jodi and Kevin, and even more.

Maybe there never was a parting of the ways...

erin said...

Stephanie said: "I read about this a little at GWoP, but are we 100% sure they purchased this house? I think it is a beauitiful house with grea property that the kids will love. I think it is a little bit an invasion of privacy, yes this will all be public record, but when people are using tools at work to search for information not work related IMO it crosses a line. I worked for a lawyer in my town and he had clients who I knew and grew up with and I could have pulled their file and looked inside, but I never did unless it was work related. Same thing with medical records, you dont search them just because you are a nurse, you only do so when it is work related. They will still get freebies because it is great advertising for companies, so we cant expect that to stop anytime soon."

This is my question too, are we sure it is what they bought? A couple of months ago Julie said on GWoP I believe that the Gs were building a house and the building was completed, not that there was an existing house. I also think that the whole using a "work database" to research the Gosselins and whether or not they bought the house is creepy and inappropriate. Not to mention the insane use of Google earth satelite pictures to know whether or not they are there. I think that GWoP has REALLY overstepped the bounds of appropriateness here.

Nina Bell said...

We have no idea (meaning the moderators on this blog) if the house pictured on GWoP is indeed owned by the Gosselins. We are strictly going by what people are sending our way via comments and by reading GWoP.

That being said, we should remember that it was only a month or two ago that we were being told that the move was to North Carolina both by GWoP and Julie.

So who really knows? We just thought we would put this post up because another post was becoming off topic and it seemed like people wanted to discuss this topic.

kimberely said...

themrs said...
if you want privacy, then take your kids off tv. it's a beautiful home, so i hope they appreciate and enjoy it. but i don't want to hear another word about layaway, stretching the food budget, or saving for trips that we all know they don't pay for.

November 2, 2008 8:09 AM

---

So, what? If you earn a lot of money you can't budget anymore? You can't do layaway, you can't save for a trip that you want to take when the offers for free trips are gone? Ask a rich person how they stay rich and they'll tell you that it happens because they still budget, they know how much money they have, they know where to get a good deal, they know that earning a lot of money doesn't mean you are free to spend. Or talk to Ed McMcMahon (God Bless Him) who didn't do any of that, who spent like there would always be money in the bank, and who lost his home because the money did stop coming in.

I don't understand criticizing Kate for doing a layaway campaign or talking about budgeting. Why not criticize Martha Stewart for having a line of bedsheets (and etc.) at KMart or wherever she has them? You know she doesn't use those sheets, why would she put her name on something that people who are pinching pennies buy when she so obviously does not need to pinch pennies?

FIONA said...

Nina,

You are right...Julie did tell us that the G's were building...does this mean she lied to us?

spanglish said...

"I read about this a little at GWoP, but are we 100% sure they purchased this house?"

I don't think anyone is 100% certain about the purchase. If they were, they wouldn't hesitate to say so. I've read on other boards that neighbors have witnessed the Gosselins moving this weekend, so who knows what to believe.

"...when people are using tools at work to search for information not work related IMO it crosses a line."

How do we know that happened? It's just as possible that the information was given to them by someone in the area who had firsthand information. We really don't know.

merryway said...

The idea of Kate actually using Kmart lay-away is far-fetched. As far as advertising goes, her success makes it harder to pass her off as a mom digging through the couch for change for lunches. How much help do you have to have to manage this type of home? It's fabulous! IMO it makes it harder for the avg mom to relate to her. The irony of life but it got them a house like this.
IMO Kate is prob not thrilled to be pushing Kmart, although, I like getting the word out about layaway, these are tough times. I think Kate did it for the work and her family.

I'm also curious about Julie saying the home was being built in NC.

Kikibee said...

Yes, in August Julie said they were showing people plans for the 8,000 sq.ft. house they were building in N.C. Seems like she got things a little mixed up.
Wonder if that has happened with anything else she has told us?

I know there's no point in asking, but if this is their new house how again is it helping the kids in any way to tell everyone where it is?

Voice of Reason said...

Um, I never answered your original question.

The whole GWOP presentation over the last few days about the house was exceptionally mean and nasty. Encouraging people to find the listing and location of the Gosselin's potential home is wrong and potentially dangerous. I wanted to take a shower after reading those posts and comments.

Was it an invasion of privacy? I don't think so because the Gosselins are public figures.

Was it the right thing to do? No. It is encouraging stalking behavior, which can turn dangerous. How can that be best for the kids? How does that fit into the mission of child advocacy?

Obviously, I need to think about why I continue to read such crap. I don't get this kind of behavior in real life or on the internet. Reading more of it isn't helping me understand it any better.

MommyZinger said...

I don't go to GWOP so I had only heard of the house from other sites and I am not aware of the manner in which it was discovered. I won't really believe they have a new house until I see them in one. I can't decide if it is an invasion of privacy or just creepy and stalkerish. Someone mentioned Google Earth and that just seems creepy to me.

Oh and I agree that just because one has money doesn't mean they can't budget.

If they have a nice, new, big house, I'm happy for them. Go, Gosselins!

BEE said...

If this is their new house, it is beautiful and good for them! However, I won't believe it until we see it on the show and I hardly think we should be taking the word of GWop as truth. Thanks for putting up a post about the issue, but lets all remember were the interest even started...over yonder.

Personally, I think it is creepy that people are digging deep into the blogsphere/internet to find out the juicey tidbits about the Gosselins doings.

Didn't the Gosselins tell the world on national tv that they were moving? And the house/land that they looked at months ago was also worth over a million dollars...so what is the suprise?

Also, why do people assume that just because they are buying a house for a million dollars that they do not have a need to budget? Personally, I think that is part of the problem with our society today. If more people were on a budget then perhaps our country wouldn't be in the financial mess we are in now.

CeeCee said...

Since I don't spend time tracking down where the Gosselins live, like some of the posters on GWOP, I have no idea if that's their new house or not. But if it is, I'm not surprised GWOP posters managed to find it.

The story on GWOP is that they have already moved in. If true, I hope it's everything they wanted their new house to be.

What I did find interesting is that house appears to be very close to where they used to live (and where, presumably, the tups attend preschool) if the location listed on GWOP is correct.

Remember how much they loved Beth and Bo's property? Now, perhaps, they have something similar. They can afford it so why not?

I'm sure they wanted to keep their purchase totally private but it's difficult to do that when there are posters devoted to finding out everything they possibly can about your life. That's part of the problem of being in the public eye.

indianprincess said...

I thought the house was just shown as someone's dream home in PA for the Gosselin's and how it's the house they bought. Something is off and I don't think it's the Gosselin's.

themrs said...

"So, what? If you earn a lot of money you can't budget anymore? You can't do layaway, you can't save for a trip that you want to take when the offers for free trips are gone? Ask a rich person how they stay rich and they'll tell you that it happens because they still budget, they know how much money they have, they know where to get a good deal, they know that earning a lot of money doesn't mean you are free to spend."

you're missing my point. we budget and we are not poor. we could afford a house that costs twice what we have but choose not to. what bothers me, is that J&K act on the show like they scrimp and save for those trips ( like most of us do) when we know they don't pay a dime. they do speaking engagements where they charge $20 for pics for a college fund but they will live in a million dollar home. why should a normal working family contribute to their kids college education if they can afford that? i don't have a problem with Kate doing a Kmart commercial, she's making money without the kids working. but i seriously doubt she'll be buying any christmas presents at Kmart this year. she's trying to portray that they are still the "average struggling american family" when we know that is not the case. i resent that. do i think people should be stalking the internet to find out where they will live? no
is that part of the price you pay when you put your family on tv? yes
they're not poor anymore, they're not struggling to make ends meet, they're living a standard that most of us can only dream about.

Ruffie said...

On the 700 Club topic, someone mentioned Pat Robertson's comments after Kate was interviewed. The poster thought this was odd:

"Then right after that he said something along the lines of "Kate having enough to work on a farm" and the woman cut him off again and said something stupid like "they already kinda have a farm". WHAT??"

Maybe Kate told the interviewer they were moving.

nomoredrama said...

Anon,
Please repost your comment with a name attached to it. Click name/url and put anything your heart desires in there.

Laura said...

I am so confused!! I do not read GWoP and am not about to start. What is all this about the new house?

Nina Bell said...

Well according to GWoP and I think maybe another message board the Gosselins have moved out of their home and moved into a new house in PA. Apparently the purchase price is around 1.3 million dollars and there are pictures of it on GWoP. It looks quite lovely. I think it was over 6000 square feet and appears to have a barn.

gimmeabreak said...

Kimberely said...
I think the way GWOP revealed it is so typical of the way they do things. Sarcastically, mockingly, harshly, they make every little thing a big issue, if they can find a way to criticize the Gosselins they will. Those people have ugly souls. They can take any little thing about the Gosselins and make it negative, and the house is no exception.
___________________________________

Oh, you mean kind of like how GDNNOP revealed the story of PM or constantly does to Julie? Or the way they constantly take any little thing about GWoP and make it negative and critical?

nomoredrama said...

yeah, cuz, GDNNOP posted satellite pictures of PM's home and has published personal info about Julie, her family, and friends.

In fact, anytime Julie goes for a job interview, we find out where she is going ahead of time and write to the employer.

We also bash Julie's children, make fun of her hairdo, her relationship with her husband and her clothes. We like to know where she is at all times, just, cuz, you know, we're stalkers and all.

Gimmeabreak...Give ME a break! Wake up.

FIONA said...

I thought it might be interesting for all to reread Julie's "inside" information regarding the move to NC. Reading her anawers again thru a "different pair of glasses" and my reaction was much different. The things she has revealed, the gossip, opionuendo, is truly unbelievable.

The Truth Will Set You Free said...
Question: This is a question for Julie...

Did Jon and Kate ever discuss moving out of state with Jodi? I think they are moving out of state because of all the fighting with friends and family, nothing is keeping them in PA anymore. I remember a show a few months ago when they were looking at land in PA, not out of state. It is a major change.

Answer: A long time ago (probably close to a year), they were talking about building a house close to Beth.

It's been at least 6-8 months now that they have been talking about building a house in NC. J&K attended a wrap party for Season 3 back in May down at Figure 8. When they returned, Jon said that property had been purchased and all of the sponsors had committed. Everything is being provided including appliances, furnishings, TVs, etc. J&K are not paying for ANYTHING.

They have been showing their house plans to various people. Supposedly, it's going to be 8000sf with a pool and pool house. There will be an area designated for the crew including their own entrance and kitchen.

Moving out of state has nothing to do with fighting with family and friends. That has been going on as long as I have known the family. We believe that in order to get the house of their dreams, the production company has stipulated that it needs to be near them. They have no intention of ending this any time soon.

kimberely said...

gimmeabreak said...

Oh, you mean kind of like how GDNNOP revealed the story of PM or constantly does to Julie? Or the way they constantly take any little thing about GWoP and make it negative and critical?

__

The story of PM? You mean the sham that was PM. Is someone supposed to feel sorry for this "woman" and the lies she told? They were lies. Nobody's son died. Are you really trying to defend that?

What little thing about GWOP does anyone have to make negative or critical? It's ALL negative and critical over there. Nobody has to "make it" that way - that's the way it is over there. Negative and critical. If there is one thread that has no negativity or criticism about the Gosselins or the show over at GWOP, I haven't seen it. Some people do respond to threads moderately instead of with hate, but the majority are hate posts.

FYI I posted a very nice comment about the Gosselins at GWOP. It was never added. Why? Because it was positive about the Gosselins. They only want negative posts - and no matter what they say over there, if it's nice about the Gosselins they won't post it. It's possible that one or two nice comments might slip through, but the rest are tossed because overall they want NEGATIVE. That's their main theme.

kimberely said...

themrs said...

you're missing my point. we budget and we are not poor. we could afford a house that costs twice what we have but choose not to. what bothers me, is that J&K act on the show like they scrimp and save for those trips ( like most of us do) when we know they don't pay a dime. they do speaking engagements where they charge $20 for pics for a college fund but they will live in a million dollar home. why should a normal working family contribute to their kids college education if they can afford that? i don't have a problem with Kate doing a Kmart commercial, she's making money without the kids working. but i seriously doubt she'll be buying any christmas presents at Kmart this year. she's trying to portray that they are still the "average struggling american family" when we know that is not the case. i resent that. do i think people should be stalking the internet to find out where they will live? no
is that part of the price you pay when you put your family on tv? yes
they're not poor anymore, they're not struggling to make ends meet, they're living a standard that most of us can only dream about.

November 2, 2008 10:46 AM

Kate doesn't act like they scrimp and save for those trips. They've actually said that they get the trips for free and that the pay off for the resorts is the free advertising. She said it on the latest FAQ and she mentioned that the Hawaii trip was free in the last new episode that aired.

They do speaking engagements and if someone wants to pay 20 dollars for a picture they will, and if they don't want to, they won't. No one's putting a gun to those people and forcing them to "contribute" to a college fund by buying a picture. Just because they can afford that home doesn't mean they have all the money they're ever going to need to put their kids through school, but the main point is that it's optional. Nobody has to give them a dime. Nobody has to watch their show.


And why wouldn't Kate buy at Kmart? When I shop for my kids and the kids in my family I look for the best deal on toys. If the best deal is ToyRUS, that's where I get them, if I can find a lower price on a toy at Kmart or Walmart, that's where I go. The lowest prices are usually at places like Walmart or Kmart, so why would I spend more when I can get the same toy for less? Why would Kate, even if she can afford that house? And with the layaway deal she won't have to find a way to hide the presents from all those kids. I keep my kids' presents at my sister's house just so I know they won't find them no matter how much they snoop. She's my own personal layaway, but if I get them stuff at Kmart I'll definitely use their layaway plan. And Kate has good reason to use it too.

People struggle in different ways. Just because they have m ore money doesn't mean they've quit worrying about money and just because they can pay their bills more easily doesn't mean that there aren't other struggles that come with raising young children. People who think that having money means no more struggles are wrong. Everyone has struggles whether they're rich or poor.

Nina Bell said...

Givemea-----

Why does Julie get any more of a break when it comes to criticism than the Gosselins? She has a public blog which she chose to start.
If you can't run with the big dogs than stay on the porch.

5monkeys said...

I don't know what to make of all this; it's true that home sales is public information and anyone who knows where to look can find the info. It's available usually for free through local government (town/county) websites.

But, I have to question whether this (GWOP's detective work) is a case of "inquiring minds want to know" or borderline stalking. It only takes one nutcase to find the address of their new home and pay the Gosselins a visit.....

Regardless, I hope the Gosselins are happy in their new home.

MarieL said...

""...when people are using tools at work to search for information not work related IMO it crosses a line."

How do we know that happened? It's just as possible that the information was given to them by someone in the area who had firsthand information. We really don't know."

I'm pretty sure that was based on this post at GWop:

Anonymous said...
I did some research myself on this today. I have access to a specialized public records database that professionals in a certain industry use to determine a person's overall wealth (which includes all property). The data is up to the minute. I searched in PA and in NC and found nothing. Could the new KON-Pound be in a trust? Usually, if we can't locate the property in the database, it generally indicates that it's in a trust. This does not mean "trust" as in "trust fund." I think it could possibly be that TLC has either purchased the home or done something funny with the paperwork to hide the info. Just speculating...

Samantha said...

Gimmeabreak-

You must be kidding- Afterall you gwoppers are great with the sarcasm. How can you possibly compare this to the PM load of BULL? You people truly live in your own delusional/overly critical/stalker-esque little world, don't you?

spanglish said...

"I'm pretty sure that was based on this post at GWop:"

Okay. But an anonymous poster claiming to have access to a specialized database is no more credible than PM's claims about her relationship to the Gosselins.

Don't Know said...

Why does anyone think someone official at GWoP used work tool? Maybe a commenter chose to do so. From what I saw the info the mods put up was from a public posting of a house for sale.

Maybe Jon did say that TLC was planning to build them a house and something fell through. Deals fall through all the time. I don't know what happened, but since Kate was hinting about moving somewhere warmer and now has been seen at this house, I guess something did happen.

Nina Bell said...

Block Party Mama,

I am sorry you are feeling depressed over the departure of the Gosselin family.

I couldn't post your comment though because it reminded me too much of my time spent in Junior High.

Most of the rest of us have managed to move on. I guess you haven't.

gimmeabreak said...

Samantha said...
Gimmeabreak-

You must be kidding- Afterall you gwoppers are great with the sarcasm. How can you possibly compare this to the PM load of BULL? You people truly live in your own delusional/overly critical/stalker-esque little world, don't you?
___________________________________

First of all Samantha, I am not a gwopper...I read many different blogs and have no loyalty to any of them. However, you have proved my point about this blog-you all jump on anyone not sharing your viewpoint, yet you claim to be a fair and balanced place for discussion.

Oh, and I was not referring to the actual PM hoax-I meant the way GDNNOP handled the situation afterwords.

Why is this blog so anti-Julie? Where is the fair and balanced when speaking of her? For all the accusations of GWoP stalking and spreading rumours, gossiping, and being overly critical-there seems to be quite a bit of that going on with relation to her.

nomoredrama said...

Uh, Gimme...you were "jumped on" because you accused us of stalking.

If you want to have a discussion, ask a question or make points. Not accusations.

porkrind said...

People have commented on the bad way GWOP has come out with this info, but no one is commenting about the perpetuation of this information by this website. Who is worse GWOP or GDNNOP?

Nina Bell said...

Porkrind

Oh we are for sure.

detox said...

I think this topic about the house is very important. IF this is the Gosselin's new home, in no way can we ignore the fact that they are quite wealthy now. IF this is their new home, in no way are they a normal family battling normal everyday financial problems. IF they can afford this home, then they don't need the show anymore.

As much as I hate to agree with gimmeabreak (yeah, I think you are a GWopper)I do agree that this site is hard on Julie. I know nobody likes the way she came out and aired stuff. Cut her some slack, it was her sister. Don't blame Julie, blame the Gosselin's! Maybe the whole NC move was a smokescreen to hide the fact that they weren't moving out of PA. The curiosity of people with regards to the Gosselin's seems to have no bounds, and someone dug deep enough to find out what was happening now. Maybe, like someone else said, the NC deal fell through. Maybe this is the end of the show. We can write and blog all we want to, but almost everything is just speculation. We have to watch the show or wait for another book to come out.

BEE said...

Where was it said that Kate or the Gosselins were seen at this new house..did I miss something?

Nina Bell said...

Bee

I am not sure. But I read that somewhere also. All of this information is just gossip as far as I know. And yes we are horrible people for discussing it. We all know that this information, if true, will eventually come out because obviously they will have to film from this house. That is why I doubt they are trying to hide it from the public. It makes more sense to me, that if they did move they just wanted time to settle in before they went public with the information.

aap said...

Kate doesn't act like they scrimp and save for those trips. They've actually said that they get the trips for free and that the pay off for the resorts is the free advertising.

Kimberly -

While Jon and Kate have acknowledged some of the things they get for free, they have also made comments such as we can't afford to take the kids on 1-on-1 trips more than once a year, and how hard it is to provide a nice Christmas when you have so many kids, or having a budget to stick to when shopping at Banana Republic. Jon made another comment about not being able to afford something in recent shows, but I don't remember what it is. I do believe in these instances Jon and Kate are deliberately misrepresenting themselves and their financial situation.

RB said...

"People have commented on the bad way GWOP has come out with this info, but no one is commenting about the perpetuation of this information by this website."

True. It's just the same as any of the others discussing the latest news on the Gosselins. I thought you were taking the higher road on this blog and keeping speculation to a minimum. What happened to we only post about what we know as a fact?

Nina Bell said...

rb

Can you provide me with a link to where that was said?
I honestly don't remember posting that statement.

Nina Bell said...

I will take this opportunity to say once again, this blog is purely for entertainment purposes. We have no mission statement. We are not advocating for anything. This blog is what the people that post here make it. We will talk about what ever we want to.

Today several posters have said things such as rb just said. "What happened to we only post about what we know as a fact?" Someone else said something about us saying at one time that we did not want to be known as a pro-Gosselin site. Both statements I am pretty sure I never said.

Again, we will talk about whatever we want to here. There are no blog rules or laws as to what we can post or talk about.

michelle said...

fiona,

It would be nice if Jon and Kate had Beth and Bob back into their lives. Along with Jodi and Kevin & their children. They are all very good people who were a very good infuence for Jon and kate's children and they all loved each of the tups and twins very much. It was good for kids to have that extended family and friends. I wonder if Mady and Cara continued being best friends with Beth's girl. So, I hope you are right.

Is this beautiful new home still in Pennsylvania?

michelle said...

Kimberly,

Why would Martha Stewart not use her own sheets that she has put her "name Brand" on from the K-mart line.
You do not know for sure that she does not use these sheets.

michelle said...

Kimberly,

But what if you were wrong about PM and her son dying?

nomoredrama said...

Michelle,
Don't go there. If you want to talk about PM, go to open discussion where she has been talked about to death.

michelle said...

nomoredrama,

I was only responding to someone, on this site, who brought up the subject about PM and her son???

nomoredrama said...

Michelle,
Perhaps I shouldn't have addressed it to just you. So future discussion of the PM drama can be done in open discussion (everyone)

MoreCowbell said...

Was it the right thing to do? No. It is encouraging stalking behavior, which can turn dangerous. How can that be best for the kids? How does that fit into the mission of child advocacy?

That's what I've been saying all along about most of the "advocates" behavior. Their actions are fueled more by their petty resentments toward Kate, not by any real concern they have for those kids. If anything, their snooping and association with Julie have done more harm to the kids than good by posting information that could be a security risk to the kids. Things like...oh, I dunno...POSTING THE WHEREABOUTS OF THE GOSSELIN'S NEW HOME ON THE INTERNET, COMPLETE WITH PHOTOS. Yep, that's really advocating for the kids. I wonder how Paul Peterson would feel about that? What a bunch of obnoxious, flaming hypocrites. I haven't looked at the photos. I won't. I'm not giving those vultures a hit.

Guinevere said...

I just don't understand the obsession with the Gosselins' financial status. If they aren't "relatable" any more, and that's important to you, stop watching the show. I don't watch the show because I thin J&K are just like me - they aren't, in about 100 ways. I find them interesting anyway.

I think some people are stuck on things that the Gosselins have said the past about their financial situation; I really don't think they've made those comments in a while. Also, people take certain comments - like bagels being a "rare treat" or it being difficult to take the whole family out on an outing - as being purely financial in nature when I don't think that's always the case.

Finally, I think (and I've said this before so forgive me for repeating myself) that J&K may just be thrifty. I have speculated that Kate has some anxiety around money - reading her book where she describes Jon losing two jobs, once when she was newly pregnant with the sextuplets and the other shortly after they had been born - I can understand where that anxiety may come from. I just don't think that people need to see it as a case of J&K lying or trying to mislead anyone about their financial status. I think that's a pretty extreme interpretation of the way they've presented their circumstances.

Since most of their "freebies" these days seem to come from businesses with a product to promote, I doubt that the change in the Gosselins' fortunes will have much of an impact.

I think being from the San Francisco Bay Area I'm unusually inured to high real estate prices (even in this depressed market) - $1.3 million doesn't seem like THAT much for a nice big house and property. That place would cost soooo much more here, it's not even funny. That's neither here nor there, of course, but maybe that's one reason I can't get myself too worked up over their new "mansion".

Finally, whether the Gosselins are public figures or not, people who choose to stalk them are responsible for their own behavior. It's all about boundaries, folks - there is no good reason for anyone to be trying to find out their address or whose name their home is in or how much it cost. Just absolutely no good ethical reason. That this is being done by people who trumpet their concern for the Gosselin childrens' privacy is particularly ironic.

GottaLoveTheIrony said...

Too bad they arent smart enough to get that. Real child advocates, at the very least, know enough not to publicize where a child lives.

-------------------------
That this is being done by people who trumpet their concern for the Gosselin childrens' privacy is particularly ironic.

SamanthaNC said...

Guinevere-

Yeah the whole bagels are a rare treat thing clearly was not financial- 1.00 for a bag of six! "They" hear things the way to hear them!

lulubae said...

You know, if people are so upset that the Gosselins are no longer "relatable" because they have more money or live in a bigger house, then I guess they don't watch:

1. The Duggars show - I guess you can't relate unless you have 17 or 18 kids and a huge house with 8 washers and driers.

2. Little People Big World - you can't relate because you are not yourself a little person with challenges associated to that, live in a big house with many acres of land.

3. Any celebrity reality show - you can't relate because you yourself are not a celebrity, do not live in a mansion, get photographed everywhere you go, get fancy clothes, etc. etc.

4. Any type of documentary programming - because you can't relate to living in the wild, other country, don't have an alternative lifestyle, etc.

It's just ridiculous really. I don't relate to the Gosselins at all. I'm not Anglo or Asian, don't have 8 kids (actually don't have ANY children), live in an apt. in front of the beach (so no cold weather for me), I have a dog, I hold a doctorate degree. And yet, I watch the show. It is interesting to me.

If relatability is your reason for tuning in to a show, then I guess you must not watch a lot of tv.

Saint said...

I didn't read every comment at GWoP, but I don't think that posting the house is an invasion of privacy, either, like pam. I can't imagine that the Gosselins would mind about the house being shown. They have a TV show that features the old house in the opening credits. The comments at GWoP were the usual comments at GWoP, but I don't think privacy is an issue with this one.

It's an unbelievably gorgeous house! I am jealous, not really of the house...but of that property. And to think it's all here in my beloved PA. They are sitting on some of the most beautiful, fertile land in the entire world. I am so glad to know it's a BIG family that will enjoy it.

MommyZinger said...

Yeah, I'm with Guinevere. After having a show for four years do people expect them to try to stay poor? What's up with that? And when they say this or that is expensive, its because it is expensive. It is expensive to take a family of ten on a trip. It is expensive to feed a large family. It doesn't matter who pays for it. I don't view those statements as a misrepresentation of their financial status.

If they have a huge house with lots of land, that's good for the kids, right? More space for running, more privacy from each other. The kids might be able to have thier own rooms. Good, right? Everyone "over there" seems to be so into private moments, after all. You'd think the haters wanted these kids to suffer with the way they complain about how much money the Gosselins have. I've seen people complain about how the kids still receive gifts from fans. They are complaining that CHILDREN ARE GETTING GIFTS!

Now my panties are all in a bunch.

Saint said...

Now that they are not moving to NC, I just KNOW that a hike along the Appalacian Trail cannot be too far behind. I rarely tune in to this show anymore, but I'll be watching for that episode!

aap said...

I just don't understand the obsession with the Gosselins' financial status.

I don't think I'm obsessed with their financial status - I just think it's an example to show ways they deliberately mispresent themselves. It's happened too many times for those comments to be off the cuff remarks.

I think some people are stuck on things that the Gosselins have said the past about their financial situation; I really don't think they've made those comments in a while.

The days out show was just 6 months ago. They were already in negotiations for the new season, so they had to know their income would be increasing. The deals they currently have in place don't happen overnight.

Also, people take certain comments - like bagels being a "rare treat" or it being difficult to take the whole family out on an outing - as being purely financial in nature when I don't think that's always the case.

When Jon or Kates says, we can't afford to take the kids on 1-on-1 trips more than once a year, I don't understand where the ambiguity comes in. It's a pretty straight forward statement.

I believe the show Jon made another comment about not being able to afford something was when the kids went to the play, but I am not positive. I just remember hearing a comment recently and thinking, why do they still feel the need to say things like that?

Also, this quote is from the Good Housekeeping article -

"Things that I started wishing for and praying for out loud started materializing," she says.

From her statement, I think Kate believes if she says things out loud, they will come true. I think that is why she mentions things on the show because in her world, that is exactly what happens. And again, this has happened recently too.

As for GWOP putting the house on their website - it's not like the family is going into seclusion and is going to stop filming their tv show. The house is going to be on their tv show anyway so I don't understand why this is a big deal. Like it or not, this is what happens when you are in the public eye. The blog bricks and stones had pictures of Tori Spelling's new house on their website - would you like to hound them as well for invading their privacy?

Mary said...

Guin, I agree with you re housing prices and where they are located. In the town we left a few years ago 1 million dollars is the entry level price house now. That house would be about 1800 to 2000 sf. We lived there for 19 years and every piece of property had become very expensive as time went by. Good schools and proximity to a major city where jobs were available was one of the big attractions. This doesn't mean that a price tag of 1 million plus isn't a lot and far beyond the means of most people, but the point is, for what the Gosselins might be paying and what they are getting for value could be very different from what those of us who live in incredibly over developed areas where prices are very inflated even now, in comparison.

The only thing I'm going to say about this major revelation to the obsessed wackos at gwop is perhaps minding your own business and paying more attention to your own affairs might get you ahead in life and you too could afford some of the things you would like to have/do. Sitting on the computer all day harping about a tv show and hating a family (or family member) doesn't bring home the bacon OR help you take better care of your own kids! Posting information on a website about a family and where they are living, whether it is public record or not, is unacceptable. I would like to know what good old Paul Peterson thinks of this kind of garbage. Advocates for the children? RIGHT. Then it makes sense to post pics of the house and let people know how easy it would be to do something really dreadful to that family. I don't believe they have the info absolutely correct and like I have said before..the channel did NOT buy them a house. Maybe their production company helped them but listen gwopper stalkers-the Gosselins are making money and whether you hate it or not, they are going to spend it. Would you rather J/K kept it for themselves and the children did not have a larger, nicer home to live in with more space? After all, you are advocating for the kids, right? Shouldn't the kids have more property, more privacy out of a neighborhood setting? Oh, but wait, you really are NOT a child advocacy group, are you?

Isn't the real issue for gwoppers here: "OH LOOK! Kate has a bigger house than I do, her kids wear better clothes than mine do, I can't stand this, I can't bear to watch!"

I do laugh at those people. I don't even have to go over there to see the comments or the main story of the house. It's boring to read mean, nasty, angry, jealous comments. In the meantime, the Gosselins are moving on up!

By the way, all of us are frugal. We now live in another state and have a very nice house that we EARNED just like everyone else EARNS where they live. We work. We save. We are very frugal people and live within our means. I was in Target Saturday shopping for soaps, pet items and, EGAD, I even bought some workout clothes! I go to Home Goods and TJ Maxx and use my coupons at Macy's. Unless one owns a football team, or has inherited millions from family there is NOT an endless supply of cash. With 8 kids to put through college how on earth could these people not worry, not economize, not be frugal? Once the tups are older there will be no show. This is called planning ahead. And by the way, our country would be a far better place if everyone, no matter what their economic level, was more mindful of how they spend their money. It would probably make us a much more sane place. Since when is being frugal a sin? I think the snarkers live in a very small, closed world. Tiny. Petty.

Get a grip gwoppers. The Gosselins are going to have a nicer house than a lot of people. Would you take that away from the children who made that possible? Which is it? Your hatred for the parents and your petty jealousy or reward for the kids you claim you protect through your disgraceful, useless space that attracts more avarice and hate than just about any blog I have ever come across?

Please spare us all the false pretense for your snarky little blog world. I found out all if needed to know when I realized who started that ugly site. As for Julie, she took her family business to the internet. That also tells me everything I need to know about her. She is no advocate for the kids. Hmmm...but if Jodi had been paid...maybe things would be different?

Good luck to this family in their new home, wherever it is. I hope the children enjoy every moment and they are safe and healthy. It's what I would wish for all children and all families.

I am going to work. And yes, I am going to spend or not spend the money I earn today as I please, just like the rest of the world does, and in the process, I don't hate the people who have more than I do. I just hope more folks use what they have and who they are for good and positive things in our lives rather than ugly and negative things. Truly. Isn't that worth more than any material possession?

FIONA said...

I have been thinking about this and I believe what is getting the "others" so worked up about the house, if in fact it is the G's, is the can not bear to see Kate and Jon succeed. CAN.NOT.BEAR.IT!

After all the letter writing to sponsers, PP etc, so on and so forth, Kate is an accepted celebrity. People love her.

She has worked tirelessly and dilegently to get to where she is and she has paid a price. What the others want is for Kate to be poor again, working the night shift at the local hospital and struggling. They want her to be bitter and sad in a sorry life, just like there own.

Kate has hit it big and they are foaming at the mouth about it.

The alarming thing about all of this is the more successful the G's become, the more bizarre behavior we will see from the people who HATE Jon and Kate. HATE!

Scary thing. Scary for the kids. Twisted fact is the people who claim to be advocating for the kids are attempting to harm the parent's-how in the world can that be right???

kimberely said...

Michelle:

The PM thing was a hoax. If you are still holding on to hope that it wasn't then that's pretty creepy. It's good that no one's son died. When I found out it was a hoax that was my first reaction. At least no one's son died. She disappeared because her own supporters looked into her claims about where she was posting from and about her son, they found out the truth about her and revealed it.


I certainly do not know for sure whether MS uses her own sheets, and you don't know whether Kate uses layaway and does some of her Christmas shopping at Kmart. Why wouldn't she?

kimberely said...

aap said:

While Jon and Kate have acknowledged some of the things they get for free, they have also made comments such as we can't afford to take the kids on 1-on-1 trips more than once a year, and how hard it is to provide a nice Christmas when you have so many kids, or having a budget to stick to when shopping at Banana Republic. Jon made another comment about not being able to afford something in recent shows, but I don't remember what it is. I do believe in these instances Jon and Kate are deliberately misrepresenting themselves and their financial situation.

___

Why can't Jon and Kate be making money and trying to save that money? Maybe they only allow themselves a certain amount of spending money and the rest goes into savings or is invested. They're not spending it like drunken sailors, they still know that saving is wise, and I don't see it as misrepresenting themselves anymore than I saw P. Diddy misrepresenting himself when he made a video saying he had to stop flying his private plane because of high fuel prices. The man has a private plane and yet HE still budgets and realized he had to fly commercial because he didn't want to waste all that money.

It's good that they are disciplined about spending and saving, and I don't see it as misrepresenting themselves at all. If anybody here came into big money, started getting paid 10x than you usually got paid at your job, would you all start spending it all and forget about saving and budgeting? I hope you wouldn't. I'm glad Jon and Kate still think about the cost of things. I believe them because I would do the same.

kimberely said...

Michelle:

I didn't bring up PM, "gimmeabreak" did. I responded to this post:

"gimmeabreak said...
Oh, you mean kind of like how GDNNOP revealed the story of PM or constantly does to Julie? Or the way they constantly take any little thing about GWoP and make it negative and critical?"

and I responded to that. To tell you the truth it took me a minute to realize who PM was, (my initial response was going to be "who is PM?" before it clicked in my head). It's that far in the past as far as I'm concerned.

I can't find those posts here so they may have been removed, but if you are responding to me then you must have seen my response and you must have seen that I was responding to someone else, I wasn't the one who brought it up.

GLO said...

"Oh, and I was not referring to the actual PM hoax-I meant the way GDNNOP handled the situation afterwords."

Regarding this comment, if I remember correctly, after this blog posted all of the information about PM and allowed some commentary, the discussion was closed until just recently when people continued to bring it up. I am not sure what is being referred to here as "handl(ing) the situation."

Also, in regards to the Gosselins stating that they cannot afford to take the kids out one-on-one, this could be referring to time more than money.

If it is just a reference to money, we are not privy to their financial situation, nor do we have the right to be. We do not know what debts they have incurred (I can only imagine, even with health insurance, how much they owe for the 'tupts birth), what their cost-of-living is today, how much they save and donate to charity, or how much they are compensated for the show and other appearences.

We also do not know what was "free" to the Gosselins on these trips, and what was paid for by them, if anything.

To assume that they can "afford" eight individual trips more than once a year is a bit presumptuous, IMO.

I would not want people telling me what I can and cannot afford.

aap said...

Why can't Jon and Kate be making money and trying to save that money?

Kimberly -

Jon and Kate didn't pay for the days out trips, they got them for free. And if they were to do it again, those outings would be free too. I think that Jon and KAte implying that they budgeted for those days out is a flat out lie.

kimberely said...

aap said:

Jon and Kate didn't pay for the days out trips, they got them for free. And if they were to do it again, those outings would be free too. I think that Jon and KAte implying that they budgeted for those days out is a flat out lie.

____

Aap, are we going in circles? J&K recently explained that those trips were free, so how can they be implying that they're not when they out and out SAID that they were? Doesn't what they actually SAY trump whatever you think they may be "implying?"

Am I the only one that heard them say they get those trips for free and that in return the place they go to is promoted for free?

GirlyGal said...

I too am not loyal to any blog. I read pro and anti Gosselin blogs as well as fair and balanced ones, when I can find them. I try to draw my own opinions. I was watching with interest that house that was posted on GWoP to see if it was indeed the Gosselin house, and if it turns out to be so, I think GWoP handled it very, very well. I'm sure if they know that much about the house they also know the address, which I do not believe they posted. THAT would be mean and invading. Showing a picture of the house does not mean anything without an address. And as someone here posted, it is just a matter of time when it will be shown on TV, again without an address. What GWoP did was find it out before anyone else, and I think many people on other blogs are resentful of that.

aap said...

Glo -

We also do not know what was "free" to the Gosselins on these trips, and what was paid for by them, if anything.

I beg to differ from you. We know -

1) That places pay for Jon and Kate to visit in exchange for getting mentioned on the show. Why would the days out be any different?

2) We know that the kids did the days out on the show, so if the places didn't pay for all of it, the show probably paid for the rest. Why? Because it would be considered a show expense.

3) Neither parent has a regular 40 hour week job. Are you telling me that they can't squeeze 16 1-0n-1 outings in?

Also, in regards to the Gosselins stating that they cannot afford to take the kids out one-on-one, this could be referring to time more than money.

Yes because people often say they can't afford to do something when they really mean they don't have the time for it. Have you even seen the quote I am referring to?

IMO, it is naive to think that the Gosselins paid for any of the trips at all.

This has nothing to do with telling Jon and Kate how they should be spending their money, because I don't believe they spent any. I've backed up my thoughts on why I believe the outings were free, can you back up your thoughts on why you think they paid for them? Any proof at all?

To assume that they can "afford" eight individual trips more than once a year is a bit presumptuous, IMO.

Apparently, they can afford to buy a 1.3 million dollar house. If they are choosing to spend all of their money on a house vs. meaningful experiences with their children, I would say that their priorities are out of whack. But that part is just an opinion.

Nina Bell said...

Actually girlygal

I am not resentful at all. I too feel the house will be on TV soon enough. We all knew they were moving. I don't understand why it was such a big deal to GWoP. That is all. They are the ones that are in a tizzy about it. Not me. I say good for the Gosselins and what a beautiful house.

aap said...

Aap, are we going in circles? J&K recently explained that those trips were free, so how can they be implying that they're not when they out and out SAID that they were? Doesn't what they actually SAY trump whatever you think they may be "implying?"

Kimberly, the comment I am referring to is one that Jon said after the days out trip. In the Q&A you are referring, Jon and Kate only mentioned getting the BIG trips for free, they said nothing about the days out or other trips. They also didn't mention the clothes they get for free either.

So when Jon and Kate go into Banana Republic and state they have gone over their budget for the clothes, well the clothes are free so how do you budget for that?

IF you continue to watch the show, I am sure that Jon or Kate will make another remark about finances or the fact that they had to pay for something when the show pays for it.

merryway said...

It was my impression that Kate was speaking in the financial sense in both the “bagel being a rare treat” and the individual outings.

I don't know how long Jen talks to them on the couch to get the footage or if they do retakes. I think Kate is just a babbler. I think she talks because she has to be doing something and can't just sit there. She's compulsive anyway. I also think her mind speeds faster than her mouth can keep up. Maybe she's tired. Maybe she lost her mind after the pregnancy and is just now getting it back. :) But, I don't think she's not above lying about some things. There's prob somethings she would hold sacred, but others .. not so much. Especially, if it's benefiting her family.

I still want to know how much TLC influences their daily lives. Like Jon having to shave or not shave his beard for continuity. The reality of it would be sometimes he had a beard, sometimes he didn't. Were they leading Kate to say things like that?, is it their editing?

With the comments being made about the house at GWOP, Julie should just kill her blog now. It's shocking.

GirlyGal said...

Nina Bell,
I really didn't read the GWoPers as being in a tizzy over it. I saw it that they had discovered this, by however they did it, and since we don't know how they did it, we really can't comment on how integritous it was to publish it, and shared it without giving up the details on it (ie affirmatively saying it was the Gosselin house, or giving too many details, etc). GWoP has gone out on a limb before and been wrong (PM, anyone?)and I would bet they got this information and were being more cautious then they had been, because they can't fit both of their feet in their mouth at once. I personally give them credit for finding it and not sharing "it all". I hope those at GWoP who know the details (address, mortgage, etc) keep it to themselves.

Roy said...

"With the comments being made about the house at GWOP, Julie should just kill her blog now. It's shocking."

And the parallel is what?
Is her blog commenting on the new house?

BEE said...

None of us know what exactly Jon and Kate get for free unless they say on the show. We don't know if when places offer them a free trip if they only offer the room for free, if airfare is included, if food and activities are included etc. I am sure that each place that offers them a freebie/vacation has different stipulations etc.

Same goes for the house. We have no idea who has paid for the house etc. And frankly it is the Gosselins business, not the public's.

Kristin said...

Hi- I have been reading many of these blogs for months. I have begun lurking more frequently at this site because it did seem to allow both sides... however, with this post and the free discussion and Julie's blog post, I have noticed that this has become more of a "talk junk" about GWoP. I understand that this is a blog for entertainment, as has been noted, but to me I am entertained talking about the show and not the blog world drama... anyone else feel the same?

merryway said...

Roy,
Because Julie has associated with and answered questions on GWOP. IMO Julie should see that the way the house is displayed and the comments about it are not in the best interest of the children.

I'm not quite sure how Julie keeping up the big title with the update from Jodi is helping Jodi move on. IMO Julie only took a ½ step back.

Nina Bell said...

Kristin,

I am sure you can find blogs out there that would love to have you participate in a discussion about the show. I find it interesting that you don't participate in any discussion prior to this but post only when you want to be critical.

We have never stated that this is a blog to discuss the show. So I don't know where you got that impression.

We have said repeatedly that we enjoy and will talk about issues surrounding the show which includes GWoP.

GirlyGal said...

I don't believe showing the picture of this house is endangering the children. I'm sure the public will see much more than a front and arial view when filming starts over there. I think Jon and Kate themselves telling the world that Alexis slept in the basement by herself was probably the most danger I have seen. That was downright stupid. Stalker danger, fire danger, kidnapping danger, etc. I actually found the new house on Google Earth today. It was tedious, but I am a receptionist, the phones are dead today and my boss is out. Need I say more? Anyway, I found the house, and it looks to me like the house would be very visible from the street. It's a long driveway, but only sparse trees line the drive. It's a rather major road at the end of the driveway, it's not a side street or dead end. If the Gosselins truly wanted all the privacy, they would buy a house not so visible, and nestled deep into a non traffic area. And yes, there are houses like that out there. With $1.3 million to spend in this depressed market, you can get just about anything you want. I think Kate wants to be public, and wants to be private at the same time, and unfortunately for her, that combination never works.

spanglish said...

"GWoP has gone out on a limb before and been wrong (PM, anyone?)and I would bet they got this information and were being more cautious then they had been, because they can't fit both of their feet in their mouth at once. I personally give them credit for finding it and not sharing "it all". I hope those at GWoP who know the details (address, mortgage, etc) keep it to themselves."

girlygal, I agree. Who cares how they got the information. Since nothing has been posted as fact and no other details are included, I don't have a problem with it for now. Let's see how it progresses.

Saint said...

Kristin,
Once I realized I had been fooled, I preferred the blog world drama posts. I like to see the Truth exposed. This comment is off-topic, though, and I've already weighed in about the house.

LoriNJ1970 said...

girlygal said..
I think Kate wants to be public, and wants to be private at the same time, and unfortunately for her, that combination never works.


IF this is their home perhaps having the road a greater distance from their front door will give them the feeling of more privacy? I just hope these new ventures..being a spokesperson for kmart and v-tech..work out and they can slowly leave reality tv. Once all the children are in school full time I doubt there would be much to film anyhow.

indianprincess said...

It's kind of creepy some people will go to just to find out where the Gosselin's moved to like drive by there new house spying on them, searching all the corners of the internet finding when and who bought the house. I hope the Gosselin's hired the secret police to keep them safe from these wacko's.

FIONA said...

Kristen,

Julie's part in the blog world is huge! She took the gossip from her disgruntled sister and posted it all over the internet to purposely hurt Jon and Kate. She has posted personal family business which no one knows is true. She babbled on and vouched for a fraud who said she was a volunteer of Kate's. Julie is fair game. And BTW, I think she is a coward. It is only Jodi perhaps coming to her senses that she has retreated. Julie wanted the attention and she got it.

Nina Bell said...

How You Like Them Apples

Once you take care of that vomit you said you are trying to swallow and maybe use a little mouth wash, try to repost in a little more respectful way without the attitude. Or maybe not.

roy said...

"Because Julie has associated with and answered questions on GWOP. IMO Julie should see that the way the house is displayed and the comments about it are not in the best interest of the children."

Is Julie a mod at GWoP? Does she have control over what they post? I've read her responses to questions but, correct me if I'm wrong, she's not made independent posts except on her own blog.
Whether that was a good idea is not the question here; she's being painted with the same brush as GWoP on the house issue and it doesn't seem like she had anything to do with it. To claim she does, as several posters are doing, is creating a rumor.

I'll easily concede that the cutesy way GWoP toyed with the "news" is distasteful.

But since MLS records are public as are other real estate transactions, and since the Gosselins themselves have discussed moving, how is this even a controversy?

MrsRef said...

AAP: I am sure they could afford 8 individual trips if those trips did not involve closing the entire facility just for them. Roller skating is affordable as is the train museum, ear piercing and the bouncy house thing if you are willing to share the experience with the general public. A trip with one kid to the park is free also. Their priorities are screwy if they can afford a 1.3 million dollar house and not make the time to take out their kids.

Anya said...

GirlyGal said...
I don't believe showing the picture of this house is endangering the children. I'm sure the public will see much more than a front and arial view when filming starts over there. I think Jon and Kate themselves telling the world that Alexis slept in the basement by herself was probably the most danger I have seen.


Your concern for Alexis is admirable.

I haven't begun to do the amount of research you have on the new house, but one can assume it will be larger and have more bedrooms. Hopefully, no more "dungeon" (Kate's words) sleeping for Alexis!

That's something we ALL can be happy about right? Right? Of course! Unity is such a wonderful thing....!

Kristin said...

Fiona,

Well said. I see it from so many sides, and am trying to be objective. I think a lot of the stuff on GWoP is too much, but sometimes think the same about this site. I agree that Julie has opened up the doors for criticism, but just wonder when enough is enough.

To Nina Bell - I posted earlier accidentally anon and cannot remember all that I said. Let me start by saying that I felt some hostility in your post. I'm sorry that my first post here was to "criticize," which by the way, I feel like I was merely stating my opinion, not being critical. I will say that I may have been incorrect about assuming this was a site to talk about the show and kids. I will try and find a site to do such. I have been sucked in to the PM drama (which I realize I should perhaps be commenting on in a different section)... and this has been the best place for information. I know that my admitting being fascinated by the PM stuff goes against what was said by me in the first post - I guess I am more fascinated because PM was a creation of someone very troubled, and I am intrigued by the lengths people will go to to defend or criticize this family. I don't want to start singing kumbaya and holding hands, I just wish that GWoP and GDNNOP and all the other sites did not always seem to be trying to one-up the other sites.

Lastly, to try and get this on topic (too late? lol) can I just say, awesome house, and I am definitely jealous :)

GLO said...

AAP--

To continue our discussion:

1) That places pay for Jon and Kate to visit in exchange for getting mentioned on the show. Why would the days out be any different?

As far as I can recall, the shopping mall and earring kiosk and the roller skating place were not mentioned by name, and therefore, were not necessarily free.

2) We know that the kids did the days out on the show, so if the places didn't pay for all of it, the show probably paid for the rest. Why? Because it would be considered a show expense.

You say that TLC/Figure 8 probably paid for it, but once again, that is assuming. That would be the same as assuming that TLC/Figure 8 pays the Gosselins' electric bill because the lighting that uses electricity is a business expense. It may be the case that J&K paid nothing out of their own pockets for those days, but we do not know for sure.

3) Neither parent has a regular 40 hour week job. Are you telling me that they can't squeeze 16 1-0n-1 outings in?"

To reiterate my point in my earlier post, it is not for me to say what they can or cannot afford to do in terms of time or money.

Also, in regards to the Gosselins stating that they cannot afford to take the kids out one-on-one, this could be referring to time more than money.

Yes because people often say they can't afford to do something when they really mean they don't have the time for it. Have you even seen the quote I am referring to?


I have actually said that I can not afford the time. As a matter of fact, the number one definition for the word "afford" according to dictionary.com is--"to be able to do, manage, or bear without serious consequence or adverse effect." Whether or not Jon meant afford in this sense, I cannot say for sure. I was just brining up the possibility.

IMO, it is naive to think that the Gosselins paid for any of the trips at all.

This has nothing to do with telling Jon and Kate how they should be spending their money, because I don't believe they spent any. I've backed up my thoughts on why I believe the outings were free, can you back up your thoughts on why you think they paid for them? Any proof at all?"


I do not necessarily believe that the Gosselins paid for all of the trips.

The point I was attempting to make was that we do not know the particulars about their financial situation and therefore, do not know what they can or cannot afford. Even if the trips were free, which is a definite possibility, doesn't mean that they can afford to do it on their own dime.

Of course, I have no proof that they paid for the trips. You also do not have proof that they did not pay for a portion of the outings out of their own pockets, either.

To assume that they can "afford" eight individual trips more than once a year is a bit presumptuous, IMO.

Apparently, they can afford to buy a 1.3 million dollar house. If they are choosing to spend all of their money on a house vs. meaningful experiences with their children, I would say that their priorities are out of whack. But that part is just an opinion.


You are certainly allowed your opinion. IMO, it is a much better use of funds to purchase property than to blow it on expensive outings with the children. A parent can have "meaningful experiences" with his/her child without spending a lot of money. An example of this from the show is when J&K took their kids to the park after ice cream.

CeeCee said...

The problem is that the internet has given people who are interested in someone the perfect vehicle to check up on that person. The Gosselins are not, by any stretch of the imagination, the only people having details of their lives posted for all the world to read.

One blog posted details of a comic strip creator's divorce (including names of involved parties and where they were believed to be living; who knows whether that was accurate information or not). Imagine how those people felt.

The real problem is the ability to post "whatever" on the internet since you will always have people who have strong opinions about people who are public figures. Before the internet, those people had a much more difficult time getting their opinions out there. Now, they can.

Would it be more civil if they toned it down some? Of course. Are they going to? Probably not.

Frankly, the postings on GWOP are nothing compared to some of the stuff out there regarding public figures.

Mom said...

Hi Roy, my friend ;-)

I think the reason that Julie continues to be brought up is because she stated at one point that the G's were having a home built somewhere else. Do I think she was a source for the NE? Not really. I think she has taken the right step in removing all the personal opinion on her blog.

Julie did post as herself many times on GWOP and the PM blog prior to the PM thing - but hasn't to my knowledge since.

I've been accused on another blog as being a 'bad guy' because of the 'people I run with' (this blog and other mods). Honestly, I think this is why Julie may be painted with a similar brush - because GWOP was the crowd she ran with and 'endorsed' with her opinion and conjecture.

As far as controversy goes, all of this information about the house is pure speculation. It may or may not be true. We'll know for sure soon as it will most likely be revealed on the show for the world to see.

Saint said...

Roy is right about this. This house post has nothing to do with Julie.

Fiona, I disagree with what looks like your personal campaign against Julie. It always seems to come back to Julie for you. What's up with that?

michelle said...

Kimberly,

Sorry Kimberly, I see you were responding to a post about PM and son.

I never said that Kate does not shop at K-mart or use the lay-away.

And I am not creepy ( :
I have NOT read all the posts that stated all the "evidence" that says she is indeed a fraud, so I was wanting to say that I was considering PM's feelings, just in case or IF she is for real and the tragedy of loosing your son did happen.

I'm someone who never wants to hurt (not intentially) someone's feelings, so I was thinking of PMs, in the chance that she could be a "real" person.
I'm not trying to offend anyone.

Mary said...

I'm sorry, but what is creepy for me is that someone would use google earth to look for their house. Come on. That's just absurd.
Did the gosselins put the house on their website? Did they post their address? No. They implied they were moving.

I have to give the stalking award to gwop. They searched until they found the house and proceeded to post a picture of it and most likely gave out the address behind the scenes. Classy. Then a bunch of gwoppers come over here and fight over what is fair game or not fair game on the internet re this family.

Do you not see how bizarre and creepy all of this is?

aap said...

Glo -

You say that TLC/Figure 8 probably paid for it, but once again, that is assuming. That would be the same as assuming that TLC/Figure 8 pays the Gosselins' electric bill because the lighting that uses electricity is a business expense.

While it is an assumation on my part, if you weigh the 2 ideas (the trips were free vs. paying for them), I think the more like assumption is they got them for free. I think both these instances are believable because they fall under standard business practices. Since neither one of us can prove it either way, I am going with the more logical assumation.

I have actually said that I can not afford the time.

So essentially you are picking a disagreement based on a clip you haven't seen but are going on a possibility? Watch the clip and then we can debate whether Jon meant money vs. time.

IMO, it is a much better use of funds to purchase property than to blow it on expensive outings with the children. A parent can have "meaningful experiences" with his/her child without spending a lot of money.

I agree with you 100% that meaningful experiences don't have to cost a lot of money (which is why I used meaningful and not expensive :-)) I would have much rather seen Jon and Kate interacting with their children 1 on 1 at a park as opposed to some of the contrived situations they set up (though I do appreciate how they chose activities based on the kids' interest.)

I also think that when it comes down to it, the kids are going to remember and/or value their 1 on 1 time with their parents more than the trips to Disney, Hawaii, etc. which is why, IMHO, the parents should focus on incorporating the 1 on 1 days more than once a year. And while those experiences don't need to be expensive (and as MrsRef pointed out, if they join the regular people and do the activities like everyone else does, it really does not cost that much), they do need to have money for babysitters that will allow them to go out with just 1 child. So, if it came down to a more expensive house or providing meaningful experiences for my kids, I still side with the meaningful experiences.

Francis Farmer said...

Respectfully snipped from Mary-

"the Gosselins are making money and whether you hate it or not, they are going to spend it. Would you rather J/K kept it for themselves and the children did not have a larger, nicer home to live in with more space? After all, you are advocating for the kids, right? Shouldn't the kids have more property, more privacy out of a neighborhood setting?"

I for one couldn't care less whether they have a show or not, but in regards to the money and how it's spent, yes I would rather they kept it in trust for the children, who had a perfectly adequate home to live in already. Just a couple short months ago JandK were still claiming there was NO college money for the children, and now they are buying a house for over a million. That money split 8 ways and prepaid for college credits for each child could ensure every one of them had a degree in whatever chosen field when the time came for school.

I would rather see those kids in their large cozy neighborhood home with neighbor kids to play with and college paid for than have them living in seclusion on a giant isolated compound. Do you REALLY thik that kids have the class-consciousness to know the difference between their current nice house and the new nice house? If they do, it was instilled by the parents and is a shame.

"More privacy"? Considering those kids live a large portion of their lives in the eye of a camera lens, I guess it would be a hot commodity.

"With 8 kids to put through college how on earth could these people not worry, not economize, not be frugal? Once the tups are older there will be no show."

Exactly, because the tups ARE the show, they should have a guaranteed percentage of the income. Sorry, but buying a house for over a million dollars when you ALREADY have a house that is perfectly adequate and actually well above the American median lifestyle, is NOT being frugal and thinking ahead. How are 2 unemployed parents going to pay taxes, upkeep and utilities on that place after the show is over? That isn't thinking ahead OR being frugal.

"I am going to work. And yes, I am going to spend or not spend the money I earn today as I please, just like the rest of the world does"

Good for you for being a responsible contributing member of society. The difference between you and JandK is that their kids are enabling them to live such a nice lifestyle. Thus, the kids should have a guaranteed income set aside for the future.

For me, that is where the advocacy begins AND ends. I want those kids to have a guaranteed future reward for their current WORK. Unless something has changed radically in just the last couple of months, JandK themselves have stated that there is nothing for the kid's futures. That is alarming to me.

GirlyGal said...

"I'm sorry, but what is creepy for me is that someone would use google earth to look for their house. Come on. That's just absurd.
Did the gosselins put the house on their website? Did they post their address? No. They implied they were moving."

If you were referring to me looking for the house on Google Earth, I think it would be creepy and absurd if I had intention of going there, knocking on their door, sending them mail, or in any way stalking them. Although I am [a pretty long] driving distance from them, I have no intention of looking for the house, doing a drive by or in any way contacting them. I was curious, and as I said, it's been a slow day at the receptionist's desk, and I've bought enough stuff on eBay for a while. I have also Google Earth'ed Barbara Streisand's house in Malibu, and Bush's ranch in Texas, but I have no desire to go to either one. It only becomes "creepy" when intentions are not pure. I also did not share this information (the street or town) with anyone, as inasmuch as Kate and Jon can drive me crazy with their poor decisions and bad parenting, I would not want, in any way, to be even indirectly responsible for someone with unpure intentions to get a hold of that information and bring any harm to any of the Gosselins, Jon and Kate included.

I'm sure a lot of people know the address of the new house, and I am pleased that no one is making it public.

PS And before anyone out there starts at me for doing this at work, let me tell you that our parent company is in Puerto Rico, and PR businesses are closed Monday and Tuesday for the election. 99% of our phone comes from there and goes to there. I am working only to get calls from those who cannot reach our Hdqtrs in PR.

spanglish said...

"I have to give the stalking award to gwop. They searched until they found the house and proceeded to post a picture of it and most likely gave out the address behind the scenes."

Others who have posted about this property say they haven't found any public info with the Gosselins' name on it to associate them with this property. So if there are no public records available, it was a private transaction and no one, not even GWOP, could have found it just by randomly surfing the 'net. Someone had to have given them enough information to confirm their association with the property.

iluvobx said...

It was not confirmed as being their new house, it was just a "what if". I read both blogs and rarely post on either as I don't like to be "jumped" on for my opinion.
Jon and Kate have lied repeatedly in the past concerning their money situtation. It is well documented by "legit" news sources and the State of Penn. I don't care where they live, I just don't want to be "suckered" because of them. Kate is not the first women to have 6 children at once, so why the infactuation with her?
I still don't understand why someone would post nasty, hurtful things about someone they have never met but in cyberspace?
I am a very firm believer of "What Goes Around Comes Around".

Mary said...

Sigh.

1. If the kids made the money then they should have more space to live and not all sleep in the same bedroom, have more space to get away from each other and have privacy, more bathrooms. Whatever.Who are you to say they can't have it or where they should live? Seriously, you don't see how bizarre that is? You are choosing a neighborhood for a family that you watch on TV!
What YOU want is of no consequence. Get it? You are some person typing on the internet. Zip. Nothing more.

2. I think that J & K call the show their job. The writing of the book, the book sales, the appearances. They view them as their jobs. So, they don't really care what you think. They're just doing it. I don't happen to care one way or the other if they call it a job or not. It's not my business. I don't watch the show eagerly looking for things to pick apart and make it a personal crusade to chase after the Gosselins and try to force them to do what I want them to do. Quite frankly, I think that's crossing the line between living your own life and being over invested in people you don't know. Again, it's creepy.

3. You will never have access to their financial records (I would hope) so you will never find out how they divide the money they have or will have. You are coming into this with an assumption that these parents are horrible people who will use all the money from this show and then just throw their kids out into the world and say see ya! Time will tell what will happen to these people, but I know one thing for sure-they are not going to ask your permission to do anything. They don't know you exist. They are not obsessed with you.

4. Oh yes, looking at their house on google earth rings my creep meter so loudly that I'm almost deaf. You are the kind of person that I hope kids never meet on the internet. Truly. The scary thing is that your crew doesn't see how creepy you truly are. You are stalking a family you don't know.
They don't know you. They never did anything to you. They will probably never meet you and all your ranting and raving on blogs and the internet will come to nothing.

5. Whoever you are who quoted my comments, sorry, but I dont' have the time to go back and read your names and exactly what you said. Too busy. But, I do appreciate your defense of your behavior and completely disagree with just about everything you say regarding this show and this family. You are way over the line with investment in this and it is....toooooo creepy.

Looking at their house, finding the address, posting pictures of it on the internet and carrying on about it is over the line. Pure and simple. So get your spandex in a knot and carry on all you like. Your behavior speaks for itself. Get a hobby, get a job, get a life.

You people are way too upset over the Gosselins. It can't be good for your immune systems.

Well, I'm off to watch J & K Plus 8. Ta ta for now!

GirlyGal said...

Mary,
Calm down. There is a huge difference between stalking people and looking at a house on the Internet, which may or may not be theirs. I guess this means when you watch them on TV you are stalking them to a much higher degree. If your "creep meter" went off because I looked at a house, which is on the Internet, may I suggest you get that creep meter adjusted, it should have never sounded off. Now, on the other hand, if I'd said something to the effect: "I searched the Internet until I found their address, I loaded my car up with gas and made the 7 hour trip to the house. I found the house, then went to the local florist and bought some flowers, drove to the house, up the driveway, knocked on their door, pretended to be a delivery person, had them sign for them so I would have their autograph, then asked to use their phone, called myself so I would have the number on caller ID, and then asked to use their bathroom, and looked in every room on the way and once getting to the bathroom, I went through their cabinets and took a hand towel on the way out, then the creep meter should go off, AND the stalking meter, AND the "Somebody needs to arrest that woman" meter. But looking on the Internet at a PUBLIC ariel view of the house? Come on now.

Mary said...

girlygal, why do you care so much that I think what you did was creepy?

Calm down? Honey, step back and take a look in the mirror. I'm the one sitting here happy as a clam. You're so excited over this house you went searching for it LOL!

aap said...

Mary -

I believe someone stated that the house has 5 bedrooms - I really can't be bothered to go through the posts to confirm this. However, in case you didn't realize, the show's called John and Kate plus eight. Can you tell me who's getting their own room?

Guinevere said...

Jon and Kate have lied repeatedly in the past concerning their money situtation. It is well documented by "legit" news sources and the State of Penn. I don't care where they live, I just don't want to be "suckered" because of them. Kate is not the first women to have 6 children at once, so why the infactuation with her?

I haven't seen evidence of anyone here being infatuated with Kate. I disagree that J&K have lied about their financial situation. I have never seen any evidence that that is anything more than an opinion based on evidence being interpreted a particular way. Without access to the Gosselins' financial records, income and outgo, how anyone can say for sure what they can afford or can't afford is beyond me.

I still don't understand why someone would post nasty, hurtful things about someone they have never met but in cyberspace?

Or never met at all, but only watched on TV.

Guinevere said...

You know, I have occasionally googled people to find out more about them; I've even used Google Earth a time or two. To be honest, depending on the circumstances, there have been times when I felt my own behavior was a little inappropriate. It's natural to be curious, but I strongly believe in being respectful of boundaries. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

And I think there is a huge difference between people searching for the house or searching tax records, etc. (which honestly, is creepy enough IMO) and doing so and then posting the results on a website.

I actually felt GWoP had toned down the stalkery behavior a bit in the past few months. (Remember the good old days when Serena rather sinisterly commented on the Gosselin family's whereabouts? She seemed to know exactly where they were at any given time. Shudder.)

But this is back to Stalker 101 behavior, IMO. The whole "you can run, but you can't hide from us" tone on the posts. The compulsion some people there seem to have about establishing a connection - keeping tabs on the Gosselins and also going so far as to seeming to want to be acknowledged - classic stalker behavior. The stalker believes that he has a relationship with his victim. The stalker doesn't think of himself as a stalker, nor does he understand that his behavior is inappropriate.

Why is it seemingly always the anti-Gosselin faction that is so obsessed with inside info? You don't see any of the supposed "fans" of J&K here doing this stuff. I like the show. I like the Gosselins. I have no particular desire to see aerial views of their home, know its exact location, or find out how much it cost and who paid for it. I just watch the show and enjoy it for what it is. Why is that not enough for some people?

StopLyingAboutLying said...

Exactly where is this documentation? That's quite a claim you are making, especially if the State of Pa has documented fraud and did nothing about it. FYI just because a GWOPer claims something is true, doesn't really mean its true.


------------
Jon and Kate have lied repeatedly in the past concerning their money situtation. It is well documented by "legit" news sources and the State of Penn.

GirlyGal said...

Mary,
I must respectfully disagree with which one of us is the obsessed one. I simply viewed their house online, did NOT post information and went my merry way. It was YOU, dear, whose creep meter went through the roof triggering a 1,000 word essay from you telling me what an awful person I was. I thought the folks here on GDDNOP were more level headed and rational than those on GWoP, but Mary, you have proved me wrong. I will give you that.

mkb77 said...

I find it very sad that people have nothing better to do than research a family online, hunt their new digs down and post it for the world to see.

I could not believe these same people go on and on about how the parents are exploiting their children's privacy week after week. And now those people have posted their new home online for the world to see?

It is jealousy, plain and simple.

You cannot tell me that if someone were to approach these posters and tell them they would be paid to appear on tv for a series that they wouldn't jump at the chance.

I find it disgusting that this was made public.

Nina Bell said...

stoplyingaboutthelyingaboutstoppingaboutthelying

Wow, I think I am dizzy from all of that.

Please post some links so we can read these sources

Thanks

Nina Bell said...

Girlygal,

So then we can lump you in with GWoP? Something in that statement just doesn't seem too right. Isn't this what AAP was complaining about and asked everyone to be more open minded about. Did you have a disagreement with all of us or just Mary?

I actually remember yesterday agreeing with you on something. And I really have no problem with the googling thing. I do it myself sometimes.

GirlyGal said...

QUOTE Girlygal,

So then we can lump you in with GWoP? Something in that statement just doesn't seem too right. Isn't this what AAP was complaining about and asked everyone to be more open minded about. Did you have a disagreement with all of us or just Mary?

I actually remember yesterday agreeing with you on something. And I really have no problem with the googling thing. I do it myself sometimes. {END QUOTE}

Nina, please do not lump me in with anyone or group. That is not my desire. My statement was that I thought the GDDNOP were more "balanced" than GWoP, but with some of these posts, I am seeing both groups were cut from the same fabric.

My disagreement seems to be with Mary. She believes I am some horrible stalker because I viewed the house on Google Earth. Please note...I DID NOT POST THE ADDRESS. I don't believe it has been posted, and I would plead with all blog mods to NOT POST IT if someone submits it for posting. I do not want any harm to come to any of the Gosselins, Jon and Kate included. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have viewed Barbra Streisand, and George Bush's houses online, but don't intend to stalk them. Ditto for the Gosselins. The only reason I even posted that I found the house was to share my surprise that the house was not secluded, and is on a fairly major road and appears to be visible from the street. There are a lot of nuts out there, and when the address gets out, which is probably will, J&K may realize this house was not a good choice. Eddie Murphy used to live in a town in North Jersey. My boss lived next door to him. I was to my boss's on a number of occasions. Eddie's front yard was full of trees, the house was not visible and the end of the driveway was gated. Eddie got his privacy, but I doubt the Gosselins will.

GLO said...

AAP,
So essentially you are picking a disagreement based on a clip you haven't seen but are going on a possibility? Watch the clip and then we can debate whether Jon meant money vs. time.

Actually, I have seen the episode, although it has been awhile. If I recall correctly, Jon said that they couldn't afford to do these individual trips very often. I don't remember Jon saying anything specifically about money. I most certainly could be wrong in my recollection. If you would please post the name of the episode from which the quote is taken, I am willing to take a look at it to continue our discussion.

...they do need to have money for babysitters that will allow them to go out with just 1 child. So, if it came down to a more expensive house or providing meaningful experiences for my kids, I still side with the meaningful experiences.

I agree that one-on-one time is important for the kids, but I do not believe it is an either/or proposition. It is not like J&K must choose to either have a new house or spend more individual time with their children. "Meaningful time" does not necessarily include only all-day long, individual trips. My parents never took me or my two siblings on all-day special trips by ourselves, and yet we all managed to have "meaningful time" with each of our parents.

Once again, to reiterate the main point of my original post--we do not know the Gosselin's financial particulars, and therefore, have no right to determine what they can and cannot afford.

Nina Bell said...

Girlygal,

I read your post yesterday and I did not feel you were a stalker. Like I said, we have all googled something out of curiousity before. I doubt very much that other people felt you were a stalker either.

I do not want to lump you in with any group. I was just trying to make a point. We all have different opinions. You are entitled to yours.

Mary said...

aap, when you respectfully ask me a question, I will answer it. Since you chose to be sarcastic and rude I choose not to recognize your question.

aap said...

Once again, to reiterate the main point of my original post--we do not know the Gosselin's financial particulars, and therefore, have no right to determine what they can and cannot afford.

Well, what we know is what Jon and Kate state, so I am not arguing what Jon and Kate can and can not afford. I am reiterating what Jon has said - getting my information straight from the horse's mouth so it should be pretty accurate. I'm not the one making judgements.

Unfortunately, I don't know the name of the episode - even if I remembered who's day out it was, I wouldn't know where to go to get that information. I can tell you that I've watch the comment at least twice and both times thought that Jon was referring to financial reasons for not being able to take the kids out on a 1 on 1 day more than once a year. Since he used the word "afford" it certainly supports that thought, as that is a perfectly acceptable word to use when you are talking about whether or not you have the financial means to do or purchase something.

In other episodes of the days out show J&K talk about the logistics of coordinating the 1 on 1 time, and why Kate can't go with the boys. They don't mention anything about not having the time to do it, just the problems they have finding someone to watch all of their kids. I think if time was truly the issue they would have brought it up then. It would be a logical sequeway in the conversation.

My parents never took me or my two siblings on all-day special trips by ourselves, and yet we all managed to have "meaningful time" with each of our parents.

This is an opinion, but I believe the amount of time a parent can spend with their kids is different when you are talking about 8 kids vs. 3 kids.

I agree that one-on-one time is important for the kids, but I do not believe it is an either/or proposition.

Now, this is you determining what what Jon and Kate can afford to do (either financially or in terms of time). Why is this judgement ok, but I can't make a statement based on what Jon has said? Anyway, again I'm going back to what Jon said when he stated they couldn't do it more than once a year. Maybe if they bought a less expensive house they would be able to afford it is all I'm saying. I'm not determining what they can afford, I am responding to a comment that Jon has made.

"Meaningful time" does not necessarily include only all-day long, individual trips.

Well, we are talking about the 1 on 1 days, so by definition that would be considered an individual trip. And this is just opinion on my part, but in a family of that size, I would think that personal attention from your parents would be a special thing.

Mary said...

girlygal, why does my opinion weigh so heavily with you? If you go back to your original comment and read through it you will see that you were defensive about what you did. More importantly, why do you care so much what I think? If you feel that you are not creepy, then OK. You feel that you are not creepy and what you did is fine. I happen to feel that going to google someone's house, especially with all the controversy about child advocacy and safety, etc, that it is contradictory to that claim. I also won't go to a search site, and view someone's home. The internet is very invasive and I don't agree with how freely information flows about personal lives. Do you enjoy doing that? Does it satisfy your curiousity? If the answer is yes, why do you care what I think?

I don't care what you think about me. I do hope that you are safe and well and don't wish you any harm. But your opinion of me is immaterial. If you disagree with me, that's OK too. I am not trying to change your mind about anything. I have this in perspective. It's a TV show.

I am not a mod at GDNNOP. I just post comments when the spirit moves me. I like this blog because it is not heavily censored and I think, under the circumstances, it accomplishes what it set out to do and that is to be a place where different voices can be heard. Don't blame this blog for your anger over my comments.

We disagree. I voiced that disagreement. When you put your words out on the internet someone might respond to them. Sometimes the response won't be what you want. That's how it works.

I tired to make this short so you wouldn't have to count so many words. : )

GirlyGal said...

I would tend to agree that the phrase "can't afford" in everyday language refers to money, and when someone may be referring to not being able to afford the time, would say "We don't have the time", regardless of Webster's technical definition. But we can't go into Jon's head to see what he exactly meant, so I think that point is moot.

However, quality time with parents need not cost extra money OR time. Taking just one child to the gas station or supermarket would mean alot to those children who have to compete for time. Kate was once given this idea, and she said she couldn't do that because it would be impossible to keep track of whose turn it was. A simple chart of names scribbled on a piece of notebook paper would do it. Kate can organize and make lists for everything else, she can do it for that. It really seemed like she didn't want to be bothered, OR didn't realize just how special that would be for the kids. There were only 3 kids in my family and we would take turns going to the store with Mom, the hardware store with Dad, holding the Hefty bag open for Dad to put grass clippings in, even took turns helping Mom with housework. And we enjoyed the one on one time.

So, if Jon meant couldn't afford the money OR couldn't afford the time, you don't need any money or extra time, just a piece of paper and a pencil to keep track of whose turn it is.

MommyZinger said...

Regarding Jon's "1 on 1 day" comment: First of all, he may have been referring to when they do one on one days that are not filmed and therefore not paid for. And while they may have enough money in total to afford the one one days, we don't know whether they might have allowed themselves only a limited amount for "other expenses". Who knows, they may have been socking away all their money for say.... oh, I don't know....the future maintenance of a million dollar home.

Regarding the home: Public record is all fine and good. A few people might have looked it up, but putting it up on a site to feed hungry sharks is quite another.

People also justify it by saying, "Oh well, we would have seen it on the show anyway." Yes, we may. And when/if we do, it will be after Jon and Kate have confirmed that yes, indeed, they have purchased a new, wonderful home and have given permission for the world to see it. There is a difference and it is called respect. It is possible to respect someone you don't know, have never or will ever meet. It is possible to respect the privacy of people who are on TV. GWOP is disrespectful because they choose to be. Since they've put up this house thing, I thought they were disrespecting the privacy of the whole family and that includes the children they are supposedly advocating for.

Girlygirl, I have Google Earthed (a verb, hah!) someone - an ex-boyfriend. I know, stalkerish, right? So I don't think it is a big deal that you did that out of curiousity.

GirlyGal said...

Mary,
Yes, I defended myself when accused of being a stalker when I Googled the house. Damn right I did.

If it bothers you so much that this information is out there on the Internet for everyone to see (and yes, I agree with you, there is FAR too much personal information on the Internet), then I suggest you channel your energies toward legislation that would limit what people can find there.

My curiosity was just that. As I have said, but you have not read and/or understood, and/or processed is that I did NOTHING with the information. I didn't post it, and I'm not going anywhere near that house. If my curiousity was a sick one, as you have alluded to, I'd be driving there right now to see it up close and personal.

GLO said...

AAP,

I am not arguing what Jon and Kate can and can not afford

The main idea of your post on Nov. 3 @ 7:19 a.m. is that J&K are misrepresenting themselves when they talk about their financial status. Then you bring up Jon's comment regarding the one-on-one time as evidence to support your argument. You are inferring that J&K can afford more individual outings if they wanted to, thus you are arguing what they can and cannot afford.

I can tell you that I've watch the comment at least twice and both times thought that Jon was referring to financial reasons for not being able to take the kids out on a 1 on 1 day more than once a year.

Hmmm...so you interpreted that by using the word "afford," Jon was speaking solely in the financial sense. I was merely pointing out in my original post that afford can have a different denotation, and therefore, Jon's words could be interpreted to mean afford in a broader sense. This was in response to your previous post in which you said, "When Jon or Kates says, we can't afford to take the kids on 1-on-1 trips more than once a year, I don't understand where the ambiguity comes in. It's a pretty straight forward statement.
Since neither of us have Jon's exact quotation or a clip of it handy, this discussion is moot.

in other episodes of the days out show J&K talk about the logistics of coordinating the 1 on 1 time

Thank you for making my point for me regarding other denotations for the word "afford." (def.--"to be able to do, manage, or bear without serious consequence or adverse effect." I believe problems coordinating the one-on-one time would fall under this definition.

I agree that one-on-one time is important for the kids, but I do not believe it is an either/or proposition.

Now, this is you determining what what Jon and Kate can afford to do (either financially or in terms of time). Why is this judgement ok, but I can't make a statement based on what Jon has said?


I must disagree with your assertion that my above statement is determining what they can afford. I was merely responding to your statement that "if it came down to a more expensive house or providing meaningful experiences for my kids, I still side with the meaningful experiences," which implies that J&K must choose either an expensive house or meaningful time. My point was that it is possible to have both--they are not mutually exclusive. Also, I never said you couldn't make a judgment. I was simply responding to you above quoted statement regarding the ambiguity of Jon's words.

"Meaningful time" does not necessarily include only all-day long, individual trips.

Well, we are talking about the 1 on 1 days, so by definition that would be considered an individual trip.


This is what is called a fallacy of avoidance (i.e. seizing on a trivial point) in argumentation and debate. You are focusing on the definition of "meaningful time" instead of arguing against my proposition that it is possible for J&K to have both a new home and meaningful time with their individual children.

...in a family of that size, I would think that personal attention from your parents would be a special thing.

I agree completely, and personal attention can come in many forms and times throughout the day.

aap said...

Glo -

You are inferring that J&K can afford more individual outings if they wanted to, thus you are arguing what they can and cannot afford.

Actually my arguement then, and still is, is that they didn't pay for the days out. Who can't afford "free"?

Since neither of us have Jon's exact quotation or a clip of it handy, this discussion is moot.

The second time I watched the clip, I paid close attention to what Jon said because I have been questioned on his meaning before. I can confidently say that I believe Jon was referring to their financial status when he made the comment. When the show comes on again, I'm sure you will be paying closer attention to that comment too. When you see again, then we can continue the conversation.

Thank you for making my point for me regarding other denotations for the word "afford." (def.--"to be able to do, manage, or bear without serious consequence or adverse effect." I believe problems coordinating the one-on-one time would fall under this definition.

So your point is, they can only discuss state one idea on the show at a time? And again, when they do discuss logistics, not having enough time never comes up. If that was an issue, why wouldn't they discuss it then? But again, you need to rewatch the clip paying closer attention to the comment before you can make an informed opinion.

my proposition that it is possible for J&K to have both a new home and meaningful time with their individual children.

I never said that they couldn't have both. What I did say is, if Jon believes that they can not afford to do the 1 on 1 days, maybe they should take into consideration when going to purchase a new house, so they have the money to do both. 1.3 million can provide a lot of meaningful experiences.

aap said...

Glo -

I would also like to mention that we've heard Jon and Kate say that they can't afford something in terms of financial matters, and hear them say we don't have time when to time.

I can't recalled Jon ever saying we can't afford to do something when referring to time. It really doesn't matter how you use the word afford, the point here is how Jon would use it. I think it would sound pretty strange coming from him, especially when you consider how he speaks. However, if I am wrong, and you can remember him using the word afford in terms of time, I would love know what episode it was on.

Francis Farmer said...

Respectfully snipped from Mary's post-

"If the kids made the money then they should have more space to live and not all sleep in the same bedroom, have more space to get away from each other and have privacy, more bathrooms. Whatever.Who are you to say they can't have it or where they should live?"

How are they going to divide a 5 bedroom house among 8 kids and come out with more room for them than they have now? They are already in a 4 bedroom house with one of the children sleeping in the finished basement.

And as far as saying how they should spend their money, YOU yourself are saying in the quote above that they "should" buy the house. So in the same paragraph you tell everyone not to do something and then do it yourself.

"You will never have access to their financial records (I would hope) so you will never find out how they divide the money they have or will have. You are coming into this with an assumption that these parents are horrible people who will use all the money from this show and then just throw their kids out into the world and say see ya!"

I'm not making any assumptions at all about their financial situation. I am responding to information *they themselves* had on their website only a few months ago saying flat out that there was no money for college. If you wish to see it you can use the wayback machine to view the cached site. The quote was something like-

"Contrary to popular belief there is no money in place for any of the children's college. This is another area we're trusting in the Lord to provide when the time comes. Scary, but necessary."

Looks like plain English to me, and I don't see how it can be mistaken for anything else. Unless they had a windfall of several million dollars in just a few month's time, I will assume that the situation is still the same. Ergo, they have no business buying a million dollar mansion that will cost more than most people's mortgages just to maintain. I am not basing my opinion on bagels or playing semantics with the word "afford", I am concerned about a statement made by JandK themselves pertaining directly to the subject at hand.

Yes, I am concerned for the children's financial future. I think they need and deserve protection in this area, and IMO anyone who disagrees has suspect motives. Why wouldn't anybody want the kids represented by an impartial third party? It is a *standard* in the entertainment industry, put in place by people who know why it is necessary.

Guinevere said...

Not to derail the discussion of semantics regarding what Jon means by "afford" - I just wanted to point out again that without knowing the Gosselins' finances (how much they put away for college funds monthly, for example), we have no way of knowing what they can or can't afford. So does it matter so much what Jon meant?

GLO said...

Actually my arguement then, and still is, is that they didn't pay for the days out. Who can't afford "free"?

And yet, in your post from Nov. 3 @ 1:42 p.m., you said, "they do need to have money for babysitters that will allow them to go out with just 1 child...", which would cost money. Also, your premise resides on "free" trips, so that would only include trips that TLC/Figure 8 pays for and films for the show. Jon's comment did not necessarily include only the one-on-one trips for the show, but any time.

Thank you for making my point for me regarding other denotations for the word "afford." (def.--"to be able to do, manage, or bear without serious consequence or adverse effect." I believe problems coordinating the one-on-one time would fall under this definition.

...they can only discuss state one idea on the show at a time?


I am not sure what you mean with this comment.

And again, when they do discuss logistics, not having enough time never comes up. If that was an issue, why wouldn't they discuss it then?

I brought up time as a possible interpretation of what he meant by "afford," in response to your comment about ambiguity. Your comment regarding the discussion J&K had regarding logistics is a more plausible explanation of what he could have meant in a broader sense of "afford," which does fit my definition of the word.

I will definitely pay close attention when that clip is on again. Although, it doesn't really matter to me, because my main point, "If [can't afford] is just a reference to money, we are not privy to their financial situation, nor do we have the right to be," is still just as valid, regardless of what Jon may or may not have actually meant.

I never said that they couldn't have both.

I refer you to your quote from Nov. 3 @ 8:51 a.m.:
"If they are choosing to spend all of their money on a house vs. meaningful experiences with their children, I would say that their priorities are out of whack."

You are inferring that purchasing this home is cost-prohibitive to J&K being able to afford to have "meaningful experiences" with their children.

SamanthaNC said...

ANYA-
"Your concern for Alexis is admirable. I haven't begun to do the amount of research you have on the new house, but one can assume it will be larger and have more bedrooms. Hopefully, no more "dungeon" (Kate's words) sleeping for Alexis!"

We are kindred blogging spirits- you always crack me up!

Mary said...

Well, francisfarmer (good movie by the way) I think you are seeing way too much in my comments. A house was the subject. They have purchased that house. My comments seem pretty based in logic to me. If they already own the house then why not support the kids having more space? Didn't the gwop board publish the pic of the house? I think there are all kinds of pieces of info around about it. I would think it has more square footage. This equals more space for everyone. You mention 5 bedrooms. Who knew? But if I divide 10 into 5 I get 2 people per room. I think that means less kids to a room. Basic math-right? But I have already said this and it's just silly to repeat things over and over again. As to what they can and can't afford-I don't think they are going to be releasing their financial information to you or me really soon so I can only comment on what I see. I don't read cached comments or blogs. I also don't go back and look for comments to use in an attempt to argue with someone so whatever you are trying to prove or disprove leaves me a little bewildered. If you are very concerned for these children and suspicious of anyone who isn't, then by all means, launch an investigation. Go for it! Who would you like to start with and how are you going to do it?

Good luck! Hope it all works out for you and makes you feel better.

Mary said...

girlygal, I think your words prove my point. YOU may not do anything with the information you have about the location of the house but somebody else might. It's creepy. There are lots of predators on the internet. You know this. It is their dream come true. Somebody leaked that information or address to somebody else. Period. Then it was placed on a blog. No denying it. Go and read the posts over at that hateful place about the house. It's like mad dogs going after a bone. You know you read it because you were able to get enough info to go looking for the house. Your continuous argument is very telling. What you are doing is focusing on me because you don't like what I said. This, in turn, gets some of your little friends to also focus on me. A whole new argument opens up on something that is a non-issue. This family owns this house now. It's over. Done. Your continuous remarks to me are tedious to other people, I'm sure. I think you are beating a dead horse re your google fun time. I am just wasting time on the computer while I wait to meet with friends. I do find the focus of today a little silly. Thanks for the attention though! It gave me something to do as I sit here in some very nice clothes waiting to go out and have some fun. Enjoy whatever you decide to do..or not.

Francis Farmer said...

Mary said-

"But if I divide 10 into 5 I get 2 people per room. I think that means less kids to a room. Basic math-right?"

Only if you mix boys with girls, which we already know JandK are not willing to do, OR have one lucky child have a room all to themselves which wouldn't be fair. It is possible that they plan to renovate for more bedrooms though, we don't know.

"I can only comment on what I see. I don't read cached comments or blogs. I also don't go back and look for comments to use in an attempt to argue with someone so whatever you are trying to prove or disprove leaves me a little bewildered."

Well, that certainly makes it easier to avoid the truth of the matter, doesn't it? Why bother posting at all if you aren't willing to look at the evidence? Sticking your head in the sand won't change the truth of what they said.

As far as being bewildered at what I'm trying to prove or disprove, it's no surprise if you aren't willing to look at the *evidence* which is as plain as the nose on your face. They can't take back their own words, and their statement cannot be misconstrued or argued down to semantics.

If you don't believe the kids deserve fair representation, fine. You're entitled to your opinion. If you do, then we are in total agreement. History has shown time and time again that child entertainers get short changed when nobody is looking out for them. They deserve a secure portion of their earnings just as their parents do. One last time, it is proven per JandK's statements that wasn't happening just a few short months ago. You ignoring that isn't going to change the reality for those children.

Mary said...

francisfarmer, I think your anger is misguided. Like I said, if you are this invested in making the Gosselins accountable to you, then I suggest you direct your anger at them and not at me. If you think I bury my head in the sand by not looking for "evidence" let me suggest another scenario to you: I'm not rabidly over involved like you are. I'm not angry like you are. I defended this family for wanting a larger home. I see nothing wrong with it. Getting into which child goes into which bedroom and is it fair is none of my business and none of yours. FACT: they have 5 bedrooms. FACT: they have 8 children. FACT: you are not their parent so you don't get a vote. The burden is on YOU,not me, to do something about an issue you seem to be almost hysterical about. Is this about convincing me? Is this about argument for the sake of argument? Are you enjoying the back and forth (I think you are)? I don't need for you to agree with me. Is that clear? You are wasting your time here when you could be pulling together a team to investigate the Gosselins. You are a child advocate! Go advocate!

GirlyGal said...

Quote from Mary:
girlygal, I think your words prove my point. YOU may not do anything with the information you have about the location of the house but somebody else might. It's creepy.[End Quote]

Read your own posts, you said ME LOOKING AT THE HOUSE WAS CREEPY. You did not say it was creepy that someone else with bad intentions would look at the house. I looked at a house on a public website. I did not post details nor am I going there. You need to read before you reply. You need to read not only what others post, you need to read what you have posted. You told me I was stalking and people should be afraid of me (because I viewed a public website, remember). To refresh your memory:

These are YOUR WORDS, NOT MINE THAT YOU POSTED YESTERDAY:

4. Oh yes, looking at their house on google earth rings my creep meter so loudly that I'm almost deaf. You are the kind of person that I hope kids never meet on the internet. Truly. The scary thing is that your crew doesn't see how creepy you truly are. You are stalking a family you don't know.
They don't know you. They never did anything to you. They will probably never meet you and all your ranting and raving on blogs and the internet will come to nothing.

GLO said...

Guinevere,
...without knowing the Gosselins' finances (how much they put away for college funds monthly, for example), we have no way of knowing what they can or can't afford. So does it matter so much what Jon meant?

Thank you--exactly the main point of my original post.

Mary said...

Oh yes, I did indeed say I think you looking at the house was creepy and stalkish and I still do think so.
But read more carefully. Did I say you put the address out on the internet? Did I say you put the pic on the site? You acted on what you saw. You went looking.
For me, that is over the line. Way over the line and it will never be OK with me. All your yelling and hysterics will not change my mind. It only tells me that you are really, really too involved in this.
By the way, yelling at me isn't going to change my mind. If you don't like what I say, then stop talking to me.

Jenn said...

As far as the bedrooms go, wouldn't one of the bedrooms go to Jon and Kate. The other 4 would be divided up among the 8 kids. 2 each per room.

GirlyGal said...

Ohhhh Mary,
You are talking out of both sides of your mouth again. If I didn't know better, I would think you were Jon or Kate themselves. You have contradicted yourself so many times in this exchange, I'm losing count. You get your wish, I won't converse with you any longer. I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Saint said...

I don't think "Google-earthing" the Gosselin's new house during a very boring time at work is creepy. So what? It shows you're curious. Human beings are both social and curious. Unless you're peeking in windows, there's nothing wrong with looking at and admiring a house.

Now here is a thread on a Gosselin discussion board about their new house, and Mary calls a poster "creepy" for looking at the new house? Moreover, there's post after post defending that low blow? Mary, if you don't expect someone to take offense to your comments, try not to be so offensive.

I KNOW I am not the only person here who thinks that looking at someone's house is not quite the invasion of privacy as watching them use the potty? I know, I know, we've been over the potties, and they've been put away...
My point is that the house can be viewed from Google earth without invading anyone's privacy, especially those who invite America into their home every week for the good, the bad, and the ugly. So we know the roof color and pool shape. SO? I'd rather know that than who was in trouble at school for what or what steps parents are taking to deal with their more temperamental children.

You'd be more than welcome to Google-earth my house and look at my roof (and garden!) I would never tell you all about my children's faults, though.

Saint said...

Regarding bedrooms: I doubt they'd put a boy and girl together, but they may. Maybe Alexis would get her own since that seems to suit her? That would be #1 for J&K, #2 for the boys, #3 for Alexis, #4 for the twins and five #5 for Leah and Hannah. No matter HOW you divide it, there's more room for everyone at that beautiful house, and THANK HEAVENS the Gosselins bought a PA house...good for us...let's keep the tax money here and move another property off the market. WOOOHOOO!

Tyra said...

Quote:
Now here is a thread on a Gosselin discussion board about their new house, and Mary calls a poster "creepy" for looking at the new house? Moreover, there's post after post defending that low blow? Mary, if you don't expect someone to take offense to your comments, try not to be so offensive.


The fact is, there are people (not just Mary) who will find the action of googling a stranger's house to be creepy. It was her honest reaction, and it's an opinion that you might meet elsewhere. So what? Maybe I wouldn't have used the word 'creepy' in the presence of someone who actually did it, but the fact remains that not everyone approves of the inquisitive seeking involved. Is it better to know that, or should the people who disapprove just sit down and shut up because the googler might take offense?

aap said...

Glo -

In reponse to your arguement that I am telling Jon and Kate what the can and can't afford is pretty clear here -

This has nothing to do with telling Jon and Kate how they should be spending their money, because I don't believe they spent any. I've backed up my thoughts on why I believe the outings were free, can you back up your thoughts on why you think they paid for them?

Would you like me to repost all my arguements? Because you seem to pick and choose the ones the just support your theory.

Why can't Jon and Kate be making money and trying to save that money?

Kimberly -

Jon and Kate didn't pay for the days out trips, they got them for free. And if they were to do it again, those outings would be free too. I think that Jon and KAte implying that they budgeted for those days out is a flat out lie.


I will clarify this by saying if they do the days out for the show, all costs, including babysitting would be covered. Therefore, if they do it for the show the Gosselins incur no costs.

I'll say again, I can't see how hard it is to budget for free things.

When I made the remark about babysitting, it was in response to your comment that the days out doesn't have to be expensive, which is true, and I assumed you meant that they would be doing it on their own and not on camera. In that case I would guess the would have to provide for their own babysitting. Now, whether or not they indeed need to pay for a babysitter is pure conjecture on my part - maybe their contract from TLC calls for a full time nanny which would cover the days they aren't being filmed? - but I am just trying to stick to keep my arguements to the things that Jon and Kate actually say. Does that make it more clear for you?

I never said that they couldn't have both.

I refer you to your quote from Nov. 3 @ 8:51 a.m.:
"If they are choosing to spend all of their money on a house vs. meaningful experiences with their children, I would say that their priorities are out of whack."


I believe that remark included the fact that the house was 1.3 million dollars. Are you telling me that in PA that is the going rate for a house and that was the ONLY house they could move into? They couldn't find a house under a million dollars that would allow them to move into a bigger home and take their kids on more than 1 one-on-one date year?

While this is just my opinion, if it is the case, I'll say again that I think their priorities are messed up. It has nothing to do with telling the Gosselins how they should spend their money, I just personally believe that chosing material things over what kids (the majority of kids, not just the Gosselins) really crave - time and attention from their parents - is wrong.

aap said...

Jenn said...
As far as the bedrooms go, wouldn't one of the bedrooms go to Jon and Kate. The other 4 would be divided up among the 8 kids. 2 each per room.


Kate has said on the show that boys and girls can't share the same room. Though Saint has a point, maybe Alexis will get her own room.

Saint said...

Tyra,

It's not the opinion, it is how it is presented. Mary accused Girlygal of being a stalker. That is unnecessarily offensive and demeaning. It's very personal. It does not surprise me that someone who is not a stalker would not want this opinion to stand unchallenged. Just reread Mary's exchange with Girlygal. She attacks; Girlygal defends herself. Mary responds continuously but declares Girlygal to be obsessed with the thread, and worse: obsessed with Mary!

She tells Girlygal, "Your continuous remarks to me are tedious to other people, I am sure." And, "What you are doing is focusing on me because you don't like what I said. This, in turn, gets some of your little friends to also focus on me."

She's bullying. Another poster, more sensitive than Girlygal (who handled herself just fine) might not post again because of this type of response. I think it's unfair and offensive. It mucks up the atmosphere here for me.

Mary could express herself without attacking someone. She could say that she doesn't agree with Google-earthing the house, and how she thinks it is a clear violation of privacy. She can state it in even stronger terms. But to call someone a stalker? That's unusually personal and nasty for this blog. That's my opinion. I am sure you would want me to share it. Thank you for sharing yours with me.

Oh! Look! An open discussion addressing Internet decorum. Perfect!

aap said...

Mary -

This family owns this house now. It's over. Done.

Just curious - this has been verified by who? Because, while I haven't read everything, it seemed to be just conjecture at this point. Unless someone has been doing some googling of their own???

Nina Bell said...

Mary, Girlygirl and Saint,

I wasn't really thrilled with the exchange that went on today and I was unable to try to call a truce. Today I was publishing comments via my BlackBerry so I was not actually able to post on the blog and ask both parties to come to an agreement to politely disagree. I didn't feel like I could reject the comments because I was unable to explain why I was rejecting.

I don't think either party was more to blame than the other. Can we put an end to it here?

Saint said...

Sure Nina,
I was wondering myself why it was going on. It's so not like a GDNNOP thread.

themrs said...

THANK YOU NINA! i just got home from dinner out with the hubby and had 22 emails from this post! lets move on now:)

iluvobx said...

StopLyingAboutLying said...
Exactly where is this documentation? That's quite a claim you are making, especially if the State of Pa has documented fraud and did nothing about it. FYI just because a GWOPer claims something is true, doesn't really mean its true.

I never said anything about fraud. On the tups 1st birthday, the Lt. Governor of the State of Penn set up a TAP college account for all eight children.

Sorry, not a GWoPer. Posted more here than there. I am neither. As for other information, you can "google" news articles about them or you can even go to J&K's archived website. They put a lot of information on their web page that is different from what they are saying today. As I have said, I don't care where they live, how much the house cost or any of that. I just don't want them to sit there and act like they can't afford to take the children on a honest to goodness vacation WITHOUT someone else footing the bill.

aap said...

Glo -

Missed a few things the first time around.

refer you to your quote from Nov. 3 @ 8:51 a.m.:
"If they are choosing to spend all of their money on a house vs. meaningful experiences with their children, I would say that their priorities are out of whack."

You are inferring that purchasing this home is cost-prohibitive to J&K being able to afford to have "meaningful experiences" with their children.


Let's pretend I read on a fourth grade level, shall we? It will save you from using up all your big words. I believe that my original comment was quite clear and didn't infer anything.

I said IF the Gosselins spent ALL their money on a house (I know you like definitions but do I need to define if and all?) that they have no money left over to take their kids out alone more than once a year, it was a poor decision. Might I add that we don't even know if they bought this house? I have no idea how much money the Gosselins are currently making, and it is entire possible that a 1.3 million house is within their budget. I hope so, because maybe then they can start (allegedly) paying for the twins tution and cut down on some of the handouts they (allegedly)receive (just to make it clear - that comment is inferring something.)

Thank you for making my point for me regarding other denotations for the word "afford." (def.--"to be able to do, manage, or bear without serious consequence or adverse effect." I believe problems coordinating the one-on-one time would fall under this definition.

...they can only discuss state one idea on the show at a time?

I am not sure what you mean with this comment.


Have you found the clip yet where Jon makes the "afford" comment? Because then you can see that they talk about logistics and affording things in 2 separate and distinct ways.

I brought up time as a possible interpretation of what he meant by "afford," in response to your comment about ambiguity. Your comment regarding the discussion J&K had regarding logistics is a more plausible explanation of what he could have meant in a broader sense of "afford," which does fit my definition of the word.

My counter arguement is that it doesn't matter how YOU define the word, it matters how Jon would USE the word. See comment on November 4, 2008 11:29 AM for more information.

We can argue more about the afford if you want but I just want to bring it back to my original point (and Guin, this is why I feel the definition of afford is important) - Jon said they couldn't afford to do the days out more than once a year. I believe he was referring to financial reasons when he said that, and knew at that time he didn't pay a dime for any of the events. I believe he made that untrue statement for reasons only he, Kate and Jen the Producer knows. I brought this comment up in response to something that Kimberly said, which at this point I have totally forgotten what it was.

There, I think I've covered everything but it's been a long night. I might be back.

Francis Farmer said...

Girlygirl said-

"Ohhhh Mary,
You are talking out of both sides of your mouth again. If I didn't know better, I would think you were Jon or Kate themselves. You have contradicted yourself so many times in this exchange, I'm losing count. You get your wish, I won't converse with you any longer. I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."

ITA. Many of the comments are trollish in my opinion.

Anyway, at the end of the day, the house is beautiful and the children should really enjoy it. I just hope that they will have a secure future for all their present hard work. I can't understand why anybody would disagree that they need to be represented financially unless they have some kind of agenda for not wanting that.

No, we don't have a spread sheet of JandK's finances. We have speculation and a few telling comments they have made. However, not knowing is not a good enough reason for those kids to not be represented. It doesn't mean the show would have to be canceled or changed in any way, it would mean that the kids had a guaranteed income AND that JandK are protected from future law suits or settlements. (Yes, it has happened many times in entertainment history). The protection would be for ALL family members.

The reason why I like this blog is that it's definitely a more balanced view. I don't want to go on a blog claiming to advocate for kids and read comments about someones hair or greasy legs. That's just infantile.

I've used Google Earth to look at Bill Gates and Oprah's houses, it's fun to only have a general idea of the location and go on a satellite image hunt.

stoplyingaboutlying said...

Well gee perhaps thats because situations change. That website wasnt updated for a really long time. Perhaps when they put whatever it is you object to on the site it was accurate for the time. I still have found no *proof* that they lied about their finances at any point. I am surprised there are apparently so many people who would turn down free trips.

------

They put a lot of information on their web page that is different from what they are saying today.

iluvobx said...

stoplyingaboutlying said...
Well gee perhaps thats because situations change. That website wasnt updated for a really long time. Perhaps when they put whatever it is you object to on the site it was accurate for the time. I still have found no *proof* that they lied about their finances at any point. I am surprised there are apparently so many people who would turn down free trips
------------

I for one, would not turn down a free vacation to the Outer Banks, Utah, Hawaii. Never said I would. As for the website, I said the archived newsletters. College fund at 1 but J&K were saying AFTER the tups turned 2 that there was NOT a college fund. That is what I was talking about. Yes, situations do change, so do finances. That is great, it really is. Have a great day today! :-)

GLO said...

AAP--

I am a high school language arts teacher, and I enjoy debate. I did not realize I was using "big" words, nor did I intend to make you feel as if I was speaking above you. This is the same vocabulary I use daily in the classroom.

To reiterate one final time my original point that has gotten lost in all of this semantics discussion, we do not know the details of J&K's finances, so we cannot make any accurate judgments on what they can or cannot afford.

To quote other posters, "Stick a fork in me, I'm done!"

Spookypaws said...

This show is completely ridiculous and the so-called 'fans' need to be ashamed of themselves for allowing this to continue. These two people are exploiting their children for money. You can paraphrase it, justify it or explain it anyway you want, but it's pure and simple exploitation. Kate Gosselin obviously has OCD and needs to take some of the millions of dollars the show pays her family and check herself into an institution where she can learn to control it and gain compassion for her husband and children.
This show is not about an average family. Average families don't have sponsorships paying for lavish vacations and million dollar homes. I'm sure Jon makes a good living, but not THAT GOOD.

Reality T.V has become the bane of television programming over the last decade and although this show isn't "The Osbournes" or "The Bachelor", it is still genuine exploitation and the way this family lives their life with 8 children is ridiculously high class in comparison to how 'real' people live.

Guinevere said...

This show is completely ridiculous and the so-called 'fans' need to be ashamed of themselves for allowing this to continue.

I disagree. I don't think I have anything to be ashamed of, nor do I think I'm responsible for the show continuing. Judging by the number of posters who seem to hate the Gosselins and disapprove of the show, but watch anyway, I would say that the "fans" are hardly the only problem.

These two people are exploiting their children for money. You can paraphrase it, justify it or explain it anyway you want, but it's pure and simple exploitation.

Or you could disagree with it. And realize that you're expressing an opinion, not stating a fact. You can be emphatic, you can use phrases like "pure and simple" - these things do not change opinion into fact. I actually think that there is nothing simple about the Gosselins' situation or the judgments that are made about it.

Kate Gosselin obviously has OCD and needs to take some of the millions of dollars the show pays her family and check herself into an institution where she can learn to control it and gain compassion for her husband and children.

Okay, 1) you are not qualified to diagnose Kate with a personality disorder via television (though I thought the anti-Kate line was that she DIDN'T have OCD - purely stated, IMO, because Kate has stated that she does. Though I don't think Kate is trying to give herself a clinical diagnosis as you seem to be doing); 2) I'm not sure, but I don't think institutionalization is required for a disorder like OCD, anyway. Why would she need to be institutionalized? She is not delusional, nor is she a danger to herself or others; 3) I strongly disagree that Kate does not have compassion for her husband and children, but if that were the case, I'm not sure what it would have to do with OCD or what a stay in an institution would do for it.

See, this is the sort of post I have a problem with. I have no issue with you believing the show is exploitative, though I do object to the conflation of opinion with facts. If you want to convince people who may not agree with you, you need to give actual, solid reasons, rather than just implying that we all really know that it's exploitation but we're just pretending we don't.

But then you go on to spew your hatred of Kate, which seems to me has nothing to do with your supposed point about exploitation. In putting all of the onus on Kate and excusing Jon, you make me suspect your motives and question whether misogyny is at the root of your issues with her.

This show is not about an average family. Average families don't have sponsorships paying for lavish vacations and million dollar homes. I'm sure Jon makes a good living, but not THAT GOOD.

Average families don't have twins and sextuplets, either. Average families aren't on TV. The show was NEVER about an average family, and the obsession that some viewers have with this issue, along with the resentment they seem to feel about it just puzzles me. Fine, you thought the show was about one thing and it turned into something else. If you don't like it, stop watching. It's really that simple.

Reality T.V has become the bane of television programming over the last decade and although this show isn't "The Osbournes" or "The Bachelor", it is still genuine exploitation and the way this family lives their life with 8 children is ridiculously high class in comparison to how 'real' people live.

I like reality TV - at least some of it. You can always read a book, take a walk, watch a DVD. Here in the Western world, in 2008, we have a lot of choices for entertainment. There is something for everyone, and I don't understand focussing on what you don't like or aren't interested in, rather than just moving onto something that does interest you. I don't, in general, like action films, films based on comic book characters, or films based on old TV shows. You know what I do? I don't go see those films. I go see other films instead; there are still plenty of movies out there that interest me.

As for how "real" people live - that word always kind of fascinates me when it's applied to people. The Gosselins are real people. They eat, breathe, talk, walk, etc. They have a lifestyle that is not "normal" in the sense that it does not reflect the average American experience. Why in the world would that not make them "real"? I'm sorry to hone in on that word but we've just finished another long presidential campaign in which I repeatedly heard that I wasn't a "real" American because I live in a city rather than a small town, and that I live on the coast rather than in the "heartland", and for various other more political reasons that I won't get into for fear of turning this conversation even more off-track than I've turned it.

My point is, again, the Gosselins are real. A large part of the problem is, and has always been, I think, that they are TOO real - that we see them at their best and their worst, both J&K with each other and each of them with the kids. What can more real than that? So what if they are moving into a million dollar house or they get to go on nice vacations? What is this obsession some people seem to have with believing that everyone has to be just like them, or they aren't real or worthy of attention?

aap said...

Glo -

I'm just listening to words coming out of Jon's mouth, that's all.

MarieL said...

"What is this obsession some people seem to have with believing that everyone has to be just like them, or they aren't real or worthy of attention?"

Cultural narcissism?

HBIC8u said...

I know I'm a little late to the party but I want to weigh in on the house thing.

I don't think it's necessarily strange to google the house out of curiousity. I do however think that it is unfortunate that someone went out of their way to find out where the Gosselins were moving before they even got there. THAT is creepy to me. I personally don't care where they move to, but I can see how some would be curious to see it, especially with the reported price tag. I think that someone actually knowing(if they do) what they paid for the house is worse than knowing where it is.

Eventually the house would have been shown on the air and people from the area would have recognized it. You really can't film from home and expect no one to know where you are. I just wish some people would respect what privacy they do have and let them be the ones who decide if/when the public knows where they are. You can't go on and on about safety issues for the children and then post their new home all over the web. People who say they are concerned for their privacy seem to spend and awful lot of time making damn sure they don't have any.

Again, I am aware of the fact that the parents are responsible for the privacy(or lack thereof) for their children, but if you truly think that it is harming these kids, why would you contribute to it?

Spookypaws said...

In response to some of Gwen's comments about my post, I will concede that the OCD comment and institutionalization were a bit over-dramatic, HOWEVER, in many of the episodes I've seen (and remember, I am not a fan, I only tune in when there is nothing else on) Kate's fanatical need for cleanliness in a house with 8 kids is understandable, but not attainable. She is openly hostile about messes (remember the episode when one of the boy's threw up?) and it seems to me that she needs to just lighten up. I have 1 child and have to throw my hands up in the air sometimes and say "oh well", but she blows a gasket!

Now, on to the exploitation part of my original post, I don't understand how you can disagree that it IS NOT exploitation. The definition of exploitation is
1. The act of employing to the greatest possible advantage exploitation of copper deposits.
2. Utilization of another person or group for selfish purposes

I'm pretty sure what they're doing is Exploitation.

As far as them being average..you're right they're not average so I guess what I should have said is that they need to stop selling themselves as average people and own up to the hypocrisy that is their life now. I know there are many many many people in the U.S. who have sets of multiples, there are also many people that have 8 children. They're not so special, except for the endorsements and kickback they get to line their pockets. Oh and don't forget free plastic surgery for Kate.

I thought this show was cute the first few times I saw it a few years ago, but it has evolved from a documentary about an extraordinary family dynamic, into a weekly sitcom. How pathetic!

I hope you continue to enjoy watching the show as they move into their million dollar house that TLC is paying for, taking their lavish vacations that TLC is paying for and having Kate's organic chef prepare all their food (that TLC pays for) while the economy continues to nose-dive.

Nina Bell said...

"I hope you continue to enjoy watching the show as they move into their million dollar house that TLC is paying for, taking their lavish vacations that TLC is paying for and having Kate's organic chef prepare all their food (that TLC pays for) while the economy continues to nose-dive."
____________________________

I have a hard time reading these type of statements and not coming to the conclusion that the people making these statements harbor more of a resentment towards this family for doing well, than a genuine concern for the children.

MonicaW42 said...

Nina,

I agree with you. I do not see child advocacy in the statements out there. It comes across as resentment and hate. What a shame. I imagine if the shoe were on the other foot they would gladly accept these gifts.

Nina Bell said...

Monica

OMG, is that your cat dressed up for Halloween??
I love it!

MonicaW42 said...

Nina,

Nope I got this pic off the net...I will put pics of my "kids" up later.

HBIC8u said...

I know I'm a little late to the party but I want to weigh in on the house thing.

I don't think it's necessarily strange to google the house out of curiousity. I do however think that it is unfortunate that someone went out of their way to find out where the Gosselins were moving before they even got there. THAT is creepy to me. I personally don't care where they move to, but I can see how some would be curious to see it, especially with the reported price tag. I think that someone actually knowing(if they do) what they paid for the house is worse than knowing where it is.

Eventually the house would have been shown on the air and people from the area would have recognized it. You really can't film from home and expect no one to know where you are. I just wish some people would respect what privacy they do have and let them be the ones who decide if/when the public knows where they are. You can't go on and on about safety issues for the children and then post their new home all over the web. People who say they are concerned for their privacy seem to spend and awful lot of time making damn sure they don't have any.

Again, I am aware of the fact that the parents are responsible for the privacy(or lack thereof) for their children, but if you truly think that it is harming these kids, why would you contribute to it?

Guinevere said...

Kate's fanatical need for cleanliness in a house with 8 kids is understandable, but not attainable. She is openly hostile about messes (remember the episode when one of the boy's threw up?) and it seems to me that she needs to just lighten up.

Yeah, she does; she admits she does. I don't think she's "fanatical" - people who are truly OCD can be a lot worse than Kate is. People have their quirks and flaws, and if you have kids, your quirks and flaws are going to affect them to some degree.

The definition of exploitation is
1. The act of employing to the greatest possible advantage exploitation of copper deposits.
2. Utilization of another person or group for selfish purposes


Could we have a moratorium on dictionary definitions? I think most of us know the definition of exploitation; most of us are also capable of using a dictionary our ownselves. Though I'm not sure what copper deposits have to do with anything.

I suppose I would argue, though, with your #2 definition - you think that J&K are "utilizing" their kids for selfish purposes; I don't. I think they MAY be making the wrong choice - it's really hard for me to say because I'm not in their shoes. But I don't think they are making the choice they've made for purely or even mostly selfish reasons. I think they've made what THEY think are the best decisions for their family.

As far as them being average..you're right they're not average so I guess what I should have said is that they need to stop selling themselves as average people and own up to the hypocrisy that is their life now.

I don't think they sell themselves as average - I think if anything J&K are pretty aware of how unusual their circumstances are. If and when they do present themselves in a way that is different from the way that you perceive them (for instance, seeming to be concerned about affording things), it may be that their self-perception hasn't caught up with reality yet - sometimes people need quite a while to adjust to changed circumstances.

I know there are many many many people in the U.S. who have sets of multiples, there are also many people that have 8 children. They're not so special, except for the endorsements and kickback they get to line their pockets. Oh and don't forget free plastic surgery for Kate.

Yes, they're not so special, and who do they think they are, acting like they are better than you?

Seriously, if you don't want people to see you as resentful and jealous, you need to stop acting so resentful and jealous.

I hope you continue to enjoy watching the show as they move into their million dollar house that TLC is paying for, taking their lavish vacations that TLC is paying for and having Kate's organic chef prepare all their food (that TLC pays for) while the economy continues to nose-dive.

I will, thanks! You continue to enjoy your cup of bitterade!

Theresa said...

gimmeabreak said...
Kimberely said...
I think the way GWOP revealed it is so typical of the way they do things. Sarcastically, mockingly, harshly, they make every little thing a big issue, if they can find a way to criticize the Gosselins they will. Those people have ugly souls. They can take any little thing about the Gosselins and make it negative, and the house is no exception.
___________________________________

Oh, you mean kind of like how GDNNOP revealed the story of PM or constantly does to Julie? Or the way they constantly take any little thing about GWoP and make it negative and critical?


gimmeabreak...GWOP is indeed a negative and critical blog. Anybody posting that on this site is just telling the truth.

My question is, who or what is PM? I haven't been around here long enought to know.

thanks.

SamanthaNC said...

"I hope you continue to enjoy watching the show as they move into their million dollar house that TLC is paying for, taking their lavish vacations that TLC is paying for and having Kate's organic chef prepare all their food (that TLC pays for) while the economy continues to nose-dive."

So basically your need to cry exploitation stems from jealousy? This is what it comes back to 99% of the time with the anti-Gosselin group members. I have no clue why anyone cares what TLC pays for, it's not coming out of your pocket, has no effect on your financial status, and absolutley zippo effect on the nose-diving economy.

aap said...

Hate and bitterness are pretty strong words. You can complain about Jon and Kate and still not hate them, just like you can argue in their defense and not be a sheeple.

I have stronger feelings for people trying to fit afford into a definition they find acceptable as I am sure people have for my persistance in, well, you know - I'm not going to bring it up again.

However, I certainly don't hate them, and I think the people who don't agree with me spent 20 minutes in coversation and went on with their lives without hating me or even giving me a second thought. (And, as a language arts teacher, I think Glo would be cringing more at my use of double negatives, lack of proof reading, and my habit of using redundant adjectives then my POV. But that is purely conjecture on my part.)

Seriously, we're not all haters.

GLO said...

...as a language arts teacher, I think Glo would be cringing more at my use of double negatives, lack of proof reading, and my habit of using redundant adjectives ...

Actually, I have become immune to grammar and usage errors. I see much, much worse everyday from my students!

aap said...

Glo -

Actually, I have become immune to grammar and usage errors. I see much, much worse everyday from my students!

I don't know if that makes me feel better or very very depressed - lol!

Nc resident said...

I want to add to this thread and state the following. I think it is strange the GWOP post and picture regarding the house was submitted. If this is the house I'd say someone that knows about them posted it, and it is more than a coincidence. Is it an invasion of privacy NO. By simply searching whitepages.com and typing in the name, and city you can find the phone number if listed, address, name of spouse and age ranges. Jon and Kates old address is listed, if in fact they moved and I say this because it appears they have moved not to indulge a stalker.

Samantha I live in NC like you got a speeding ticket coming home from the beach. Within a week I received 12 letters from attorneys, wanting to represent me in court. Invasion of privacy I thought so, my driving record is open to view I was shocked.

Fiona, Jon and Kate visited property in VA, that was on the NC beach trip show. Kate has said several times when are we moving to warmer weather, Jon said soon in one episode. Julie or Jodi probably did get the impression from Jon about a move south that seems to fit from what has been said on the show. I might add I think Jodi is a loving, caring person no matter what is said. Julie who knows what her motives are, but she was hurt because Jodi was hurt.

I do not like the show because it has deviated from its initial premise; Surviving sextuplets. But I'm not a hater and I'm not going to make personal comments about them regarding hair, their new house, weight, like the other blog does on occasion. I hope I get the same respect from this blog: I have given respect I hope to other posters and J&K.

Quinevere not to cause problems but let me share some lies or what I feel were lies. Whatever is donated will be donated back, a quote from Jon. Much distaste for J&K comes from their own hometown. Many of these donated items were seen in consignment shops and three items were sold on their website. They even stated one of the items they purchased but it was listed as a donated item, under the "Praise list". For several months they pleaded on their webpage for a 15 passenger van. They stated they had not been out of the house since the sextuplets were born because of transportation issues. Not 12 not 10 it has to be 15 passengers while claiming they were in a dire financial position. Then a few months later still being financially strapped as they say they announced they purchased a 15 pass van 2004 Dodge Sprinter, "on their own". Jons dad passed away before the sextuplets were born they had an inheritence, choose not to use it. Estimates only put that at $200,000. The PA governor set up TAP college accounts for them, these were never mentioned when doing the church speaking engagements. Not until they obtained negative publicity and the media firm came along, did they finally admit the trips are in exchange for advertising, this was done on a FAQ show. That show also announced they have tattooes as I guess that was questioned as well. We get the trip they get the advertising, Kate even said it was an even deal.
Not to mention state nursing while they claimed they did it on their own. Went to court to keep her on and were unsucessful. Then pleaded for $25,000 to be donated to pay her. Easter Seals for two of the tups.
A few churches reported J&K cancelled on them. The church bore the cost they had to incur refunding ticket money. RUMOR has it the churches could not meet the $25,000 speaking fee her and Jon received. Media group that cancelled for them stated to be with the kids and at home more.
Jon was unemployed while she was pregnant with the sextuplets because she demanded him to be with her not over insurance matters as they state. He quit going into work, reported in the local newspaper. His next job for the governors office, one the state created for him, he quit as well to work for Bob, in his closet office nope, to stay at home.
Kate has said our families dont know how to help us. Funny their website list her fathers church, he is the associate pastor there, as a place to donate clothing and money. They even, along with the tv show renovated their old home, Kate was less than pleased even apologizes in her book for the comments she made. Horrendously horrific I think was used the same term she used at Legoland. Another news interview found her asking for the van, 15 passenger with lots of storage. But who would speak of their parents in the way they can be of help to them. I love mine because they are my parents.

Kate says we only wanted one child her mother in the paper said she always wanted multiples maybe not a lie but her mother did say that after the sextuplets were born.

Finally a financial move I think why was Jon's name added to the book. Initially it was shown as Kate and Beth.

I have website links to what I state as fact.

If you like them I think thats great I think the kids are cute. I hope Mady isnt as unhappy as she is shown and Cara seems to be showing some of the same emotions.

I loved the show when it was J&K and the kids at home. Sorry so long.

Guinevere said...

Whatever is donated will be donated back, a quote from Jon. Much distaste for J&K comes from their own hometown. Many of these donated items were seen in consignment shops and three items were sold on their website.

I know that Kate says in her book that some things were taken to consignment without being used - they had received more donations than they could use, and the idea was that the people who had given these items would still be contributing in some way.

What I am getting from the book (I'm not done with it) was that they were in pretty desperate financial straits at that time. So maybe Jon said that donated items would be redonated, but they really weren't in a position to do that at that time. No one knows what the Gosselins currently donate to charities, now that they are more financially stable.

They even stated one of the items they purchased but it was listed as a donated item, under the "Praise list". For several months they pleaded on their webpage for a 15 passenger van. They stated they had not been out of the house since the sextuplets were born because of transportation issues. Not 12 not 10 it has to be 15 passengers while claiming they were in a dire financial position. Then a few months later still being financially strapped as they say they announced they purchased a 15 pass van 2004 Dodge Sprinter, "on their own".

I don't know who paid for the van. Has it been confirmed that it was donated? I've seen a lot of speculation about that, but nothing concrete, I don't think.

As for the Gosselins pleading for someone to give them one on their website - eh, it's not something I would do, I don't think, but I'm not them, I wasn't in their circumstances, and ultimately I don't really care. As for it being 15 passenger rather than 10, I think this necessary to include caretakers.

Jons dad passed away before the sextuplets were born they had an inheritence, choose not to use it.

I thought Jon's dad passed away after they were born? I could swear that that's the case. How do you know about their inheritance?

Estimates only put that at $200,000.

Again, how do you know? Do you have access to their bank records?

Look, I'm not saying that the Gosselins haven't ever overstated their poverty - they may or may not have. I just don't know, and all of the "evidence" that I read online is extremely inconclusive and unreliable.

As an aside, Kate did confirm in her book something that I've suspected - that she has money anxiety due to issues that occurred when she was growing up. That doesn't excuse lying (if there was lying, and I'm certainly not saying there was), but it's a more sympathetic and understandable label to me than "greed".

The PA governor set up TAP college accounts for them, these were never mentioned when doing the church speaking engagements.

How would you know what was mentioned at the church speaking engagements? Did you attend every single one?

I don't know what the deal is with the college funds. Some of the confusion seems to be due to the fact that the Gosselins' website was apparently not updated for a long time. But again, here, I haven't read anything conclusive - just a lot of cloudy speculation and assumptions cloaked as facts.

Not until they obtained negative publicity and the media firm came along, did they finally admit the trips are in exchange for advertising, this was done on a FAQ show.

I didn't see it as an admission - maybe I'm not remembering the FAQ show that well. I never saw it as them trying to deceive anyone. I thought it was a reasonable assumption all along that the show paid for Disneyworld, etc.

That show also announced they have tattooes as I guess that was questioned as well.

So? Are you saying that they had lied about having tattoos in the past? I think they were visible on some occasions, so I never assumed J&K were trying to hide them.

We get the trip they get the advertising, Kate even said it was an even deal.

Yes, that's how advertising works sometimes.

Not to mention state nursing while they claimed they did it on their own.

I'm not sure what you mean. They claimed that they didn't have a nurse? The nurses have been a well-known fact all along due to the lawsuit.

Went to court to keep her on and were unsucessful. Then pleaded for $25,000 to be donated to pay her. Easter Seals for two of the tups.

I'm not trying to pick apart everything you've written, but a lot of this - it seems like we're supposed to find it significant somehow, but I don't understand how. How is the above an example of their "lies"? They felt they needed the nurse and they could not afford to pay for one. Kate was pretty aggressive in getting the care she felt her children needed. I've known women like her. I have mixed feelings; on the one hand, I admire their tenacity and dedication to their kids, OTOH it can sometimes come across as selfish and a drain on resources for everyone. But I don't see it as an example of lying, either way.

A few churches reported J&K cancelled on them. The church bore the cost they had to incur refunding ticket money.

Cancellations of speaking engagements happen. Any cost of refunding ticket money would be what - mailing and administrative costs? It's not like they still had to pay J&K after they cancelled.

RUMOR has it the churches could not meet the $25,000 speaking fee her and Jon received.

Entirely unconfirmed rumor. There are some of us that simply don't believe J&K could draw that amount of money. If that were the case, then I think J&K should have honored commitments they made before their speaking fees went up. But I don't begrudge them for charging what they can get. That's how capitalism works.

Media group that cancelled for them stated to be with the kids and at home more.

And that may well be the case. I've seen no proof to the contrary.

Jon was unemployed while she was pregnant with the sextuplets because she demanded him to be with her not over insurance matters as they state.

How do you know this?

He quit going into work, reported in the local newspaper.

My understanding is that he lost two jobs in the course of the pregnancy. I'm not sure which one you are talking about. I can imagine that having a wife pregnant with sextuplets might effect ones' attendance record. I don't know that Kate "demanded" that Jon stay home, but if she did, it may have something to do with the fact that she had toddler twins running around and six babies inside of her.

His next job for the governors office, one the state created for him, he quit as well to work for Bob, in his closet office nope, to stay at home.

I don't understand this sentence. He quit the state job to work at home for Bob - that was what was stated on the show. What is wrong with that? If he doesn't work for Bob now because he can afford to stay at home with the kids due to his work on the show, what is wrong with that?

Kate has said our families dont know how to help us. Funny their website list her fathers church, he is the associate pastor there, as a place to donate clothing and money.

Still? I thought she was estranged from her father?

In any case, I think Kate's comment encompassed a lot more than financial help. There are by most accounts some issues with Kate's family; even Julie, who appears to hate Kate, has nothing good to say about Kate's father. I think the TV show and perhaps the fact of the sextuplets themselves may have placed strains on certain relationships (though I don't know for sure, of course), but I don't assume that means it's all Kate's fault.

They even, along with the tv show renovated their old home, Kate was less than pleased even apologizes in her book for the comments she made.

That bitch! The nerve of her, apologizing!

Actually, I thought her apology and explanation for that entire episode was mature and honest and put the issue in a context that made it understandable. She was overwhelmed and unhappy. She did not like what had been done, color-scheme-wise, in some of the rooms. She acted badly, she knows she acted badly, and she appears to feel bad about it. In retrospect, the whole thing was not a good idea - Kate is a control freak with definite ideas about what she likes in the best of times, and she was not at her best that day. She seems embarrassed about her behavior, and she should be, but I don't think she should be pilloried until the end of time for it.

Horrendously horrific I think was used the same term she used at Legoland.

I don't understand what this sentence is referring to.

Another news interview found her asking for the van, 15 passenger with lots of storage.

So?

But who would speak of their parents in the way they can be of help to them.

I'm sorry, again I am not understanding your meaning. Are you referring to the "they don't know how to help us?" It was in response to a question about why they don't see to be in the Gosselins' lives. Maybe it strikes you as a peculiar response, but I wouldn't parse it that closely. I thought Kate was trying to be diplomatic. If she bad-mouthed her parents, we'd certainly never hear the end of that. I think what she said was pretty mild.

I love mine because they are my parents.

Kate never said she didn't love her parents. There are as many different relationships betwee parents and children as their are parents and children. In my experience, people with healthy and happy relationships with their parents often cannot understand the perspectives of people who have not had such good relationships, and as a result can be rather judgmental.

Kate says we only wanted one child her mother in the paper said she always wanted multiples maybe not a lie but her mother did say that after the sextuplets were born.

I'd have to see the quote. It could be that this was in reference to the twins; Kate's mentioning only wanting one refers to only wanting one more, after Mady and Cara were born.

I don't understand why people both castigate Kate for comments she's made about the difficulty of having sextuplets, and accuse her of planning the whole thing. It seems contradictory to me.

If you read her book, you really get a sense of how absolutely CRAZY it is to think that she planned to have six at once. Her life was in danger. The childrens' lives were all in danger, and it almost seems a miracle that they were born without any major disabilities. The entire pregnancy sounds like it was horrifically uncomfortable. It wasn't just "la la, I think I'll pop out six babies at once and never have to work again." There are easier ways - many easier and more reliable ways - to get money, if one is that determined.

I have website links to what I state as fact.

Bring them on. I'd like to see them. Though just because something appears on the web, it does not mean it is automatically true. I'm afraid your "facts" are not very convincing, to me at least.

mom of hope said...

If possible, I'd like to add my $0.02 to a couple of things said in this post...

As far as Google Earth-ing the house, I have to admit that I tried to locate it myself, simply because I am from the area, and I'm curious to know how close they would possibly be living to my family and friends. I wonder if the kids will still go to the private school they go to now, or if they will go to my alma mater, so I wanted to try to figure out what district they would be in. My guess is they'll stay at the private school. It's voyeuristic, but not necessarily creepy, not any creepier than watching the show religiously, at least IMHO. As has been said many times, I think it depends on what you plan to do with that information. In my defense, I didn't try that hard, I got sidetracked looking at neater properties in the area, so I never did find the house.

IMO, the psychology with "reality" shows is funny--because you feel like a fly on the wall of their real life, the lines get blurred. You feel like you know them. I think that's a hard concept for Jon and Kate to grasp, since it seems that they are bothered by the attention they get in public.

One more thing--I do think it is interesting that they are moving back to the same general area that they were sort of shooed out of 3 years ago, if it's true. I know much of Berks County saw Jon and Kate as freeloaders, at least at the time.

Again, not a hater, but certainly not a fan, but I wanted to voice my opinion, because I've been reading the blog for a little while and don't want to be a "troll." Thanks for letting me speak up, whether it's posted or not.

MonicaW42 said...

I'm going with Guin on this. I don't see anything written there as fact. I remember reading before that Kate's mom stated "she always wanted alot of children". That does not say multiples to me. IMO.

Jon's dad died shortly after the sextuplets were born. They were born May 10,2004 and his dad died in 2005 I believe it was. I could be wrong.

I just can't see stating facts about inheritance and other matters as that is not public knowledge. Without actual tax records, etc. its all conjecture.
JMO

Nina Bell said...

Welcome mom of hope,

Your opinion is appreciated and we will always post opinions that are stated in a respectful way as you did. You do not have to agree with the mods here to get your opinion posted.In fact, the mods here all are pretty independant thinkers and don't all agree on every issue.


We rarely reject comments. When I do it is because someone will start out by saying "You guys are really something else." Or "You guys don't know what you are talking about or You guys are idiots. "

That being said, I am not saying that someone might not debate a statement that you have made. If that didn't exist here it would be somewhat drab, IMO.

nc resident said...

Thanks for your polite response. We would agree on a few things, not everything donated was donated as they stated it would be. Some things were sold and they kept the money, why didnt they say that on their website back then to negate the critics. I get my thoughts twisted alot but basically what I was trying to express that alot of the contempt for them, seems to go back way past the days of the filming of J & K plus 8. Many people saw them as lazy and greedy. IE Reading Eagle posts.
The tattoo reference was only used to show which FAQ show they explained the trips. I remember 2 shows called FAQ and I never thought they lied about having them. I saw them as well.
On the van again I ramble but the van was purchased by J&K but their website still states they were in dire financial need at the same time. They bought a van but still need financial help? A bit strange to me, but then I would never ask for that kind of donation period. Would not a 12 passenger van work like they drove in Utah?
The remodeling was done by Mr Kreiders church members, the materials were paid for by the show. Im sure many people were hurt by her comments, that being horrendously horrific the same term she used in the LEGOLAND episode. Crucify her no but 4 yrs seems like a long time to admit you are wrong. Not to mention Jon was upset he got a 1099 reflecting the value of the gift. Maybe she did apologize who knows. Point is her dad did alot back then to help even though it wasn't to Kates taste which is her right, I can see why she was upset as well. They did thank everyone on their website afterwards in fairness to them. Her mom also was at the hospital everyday according to the book. For all her parents did for them to say they dont know how to help us may seem to you as being diplomatic to me it seems evasive and condesending, and less than grateful. Thats just me.
Kates delivery is truly a miracle her comments after leave alot to be desired. She stated society owed it to her to help her because of fertility drugs and modern medicine. This resulted in alot of negative comments, locally.
The nurse was there approx. 30 hours a week. One show they go into detail of how they decided to let the volunteers go and do it on their own, not an accurate statement. They had a state nurse.
Point being they didnt do it by themselves as they say on the show. With the family leave act as law why would Jon have to quit his job, employers are required to allow some time-off be it without pay. Still looking for the mom quote but thanks for posting.

BEE said...

nc resident,

Some of your "facts" are incorrect.

Jon's father passed away AFTER the sextuplets were born.

Jon and Kate DID pay for the van and even stated so in an episode. If they listed it on their Praise List on their old website it was probably because they were grateful to God that they finally had a vehicle that all of their family could ride in.

Regarding free trips/advertising. I have seen all the episodes and I don't recall Jon and Kate ever stating that they paid for the trips. Quite to the contrary. They have been very forthcoming about being "invited" by resorts etc. In fact, look at the credits and you will always see "Special Thanks To....." with the name of the resort etc.

I too would like to see your "proof".

I do have to agree with you on one thing. I too believe that if the house that has appeared on GWoP as the Gosselin's new house is indeed their new home, then we have an insider leaking some information.

nc resident said...

Bee,
IN LOVING MEMORY

OF

DR. THOMAS J. GOSSELIN

January 20, 2005

My father passed away on January 13, 2005 at 7:41pm
this is according to the caption above from the website. I meant after not before, my mistake.
On the van issue I said they purchased a 15 pass van 2004 Dodge Sprinter, "on their own".
The trips I never said they commented they paid for them, I said they only made a statement regarding how they got them on the FAQ show.

BEE said...

nc resident,

I guess it was your wording that threw me off..."finally admit the trips are in exchange for advertising". I assumed you meant that before the negative publicity they had acted as if they had paid for the trips.

No worries, sorry if I stepped on your toes!
:)

nc resident said...

Bee, no worries

Francis Farmer said...

Guinevere said:

"I don't know what the deal is with the college funds. Some of the confusion seems to be due to the fact that the Gosselins' website was apparently not updated for a long time. But again, here, I haven't read anything conclusive - just a lot of cloudy speculation and assumptions cloaked as facts."

I agree with your whole post except this portion.

The question of the college funds is the one thing that bothers me the most about the entire Gosselin money debate.

If you look at this page:

http://web.archive.org/web/*/www.sixgosselins.com

You will see a column of dates by year, with entries on different months and dates. This represents each time their website was crawled and cached. Each "*" denotes a date on which the website was updated.

The college statement did not appear on their website until sometime in 2008, under the FAQ section of the website. Why is this relevant? It is relevant because they were already deeply entrenched in the show and lecture circuit and by all accounts making a very *very!* good living. It isn't as if that item was on the site since '05 (when they were arguably hurting for cash) and forgotten. It was intentionally added sometime in '08. This concerns me.

In addition you can see that they are not at all lazy or shy about updating the site if you count how many times the machine crawled and recorded an update, so there is no way that this could have been an accidental addition and forgotten subtraction. They updated frequently. Very frequently in the last couple of years.

The full quote, top entry on the FAQ:

"1.Contrary to popular belief, none of our kids have been given a college scholarship nor are there any funds set up in any accounts to pay for college!!! That is another area where we are trusting the Lord to provide when that time comes!!!!! Scary, but necessary!!!!! :)"

There is much that can be argued down to semantics and is unverifiable, but the problem AND blessing of the internet is that *nothing* once made public can be concealed or altered, and this quote is unmistakable and in plain English.

They said it, it was intentionally added late in the game, and it is an extremely telling and alarming statement to have made so recently in light of this costly purchase.

So that's the whole college thing in a nutshell :)

nc resident said...

Here is the thread regarding Ms. kreiders quote to the local paper. It was after the sextuplets were born. This quote also includes the timeline of Kates IUI process.

http://www.freebies-n-friends.com/showthread.php?t=1326

QuiltingGal said...

I do have to agree with you on one thing. I too believe that if the house that has appeared on GWoP as the Gosselin's new house is indeed their new home, then we have an insider leaking some information.

The insider leaking the information was none other than Kate herself. She was in the area and was overhead bragging about the fact that they were purchasing the home of a former doctor she worked with. That information was posted on a discussion board on a non-Gosselin related website. It didn't take much investigating knowing where Kate had previously worked and in what capacity, to search public records and find a property belonging to one of the doctors. A local person who lives in the area confirmed that the Gosselins were sighted on the property as well as moving vans and a TV crew.

Nina Bell said...

Guilting Gal

I am not really understanding your point. Are you saying that Kate should not be allowed to talk about a major event happening in her life? Or as you said “brag”. I get the impression that it is not OK for Kate to talk about her life but it is ok for someone to post it on a message board and then go the next step and as you say investigate the information. And in the end, your information is just hearsay.

QuiltingGal said...

I get the impression that it is not OK for Kate to talk about her life but it is ok for someone to post it on a message board and then go the next step and as you say investigate the information.

I think you may have misunderstood my message. I was simply saying that there is not an insider "leaking" information. I have no problem with Kate talking about her house. I'm just saying that by doing that in a public place, people can overhear and then that news can end up getting out to the public. Some have implied that J&K were trying to be secretive about the new house but her behavior doesn't support that.

And in the end, your information is just hearsay.

Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, it will be fact very soon when they broadcast the episode of them moving into the new home. It should look very familiar when the episode finally airs.

Nina Bell said...

Guilting Girl

I have no doubts that the house pictured on GWoP is the one that they moved in to. My statement regarding hearsay was in regards to Kate "bragging" about it.

I still have no clue why this is such big news to anyone. They have talked about moving for awhile.

Anya said...

QuiltingGal said..."The insider leaking the information was none other than Kate herself. She was in the area and was overhead bragging..."

Overheard conversations + Kate bragging - this story certainly fits a "profile" we have seen before in the Gosselin blogging world - no?

"It didn't take much investigating knowing where Kate had previously worked and in what capacity, to search public records and find a property belonging to one of the doctors."

Please don't sell anyone short. I wouldn't begin to know how the find the information these folks found. Of course, we know they have been honing their "investigation" skills for many months now. It's really quite impressive what can be found when one has a lot of time on their hands and a single-minded obsession.

Kelley said...

If you can't run with the big dogs than stay on the porch.

I laughed when I read that, thanks for reminding me of a postcard I had a few years ago that stated: You can't run with the big dogs if you pee like a puppy.

Thanks for the laugh!

QuiltingGal said...

It's really quite impressive what can be found when one has a lot of time on their hands and a single-minded obsession.

Doesn't that just about sum up both this blog and GWOP? Let's face it. In both places there are a lot of people who spend enormous amounts of time obsessing about the Gosselins. One may be more negative than the other but otherwise they are essentially the same.

Nina Bell said...

Sorry quilting girl,

I don't buy that. I haven't even watched the last episode yet. I admit I have an obsession to running this blog, but the Gosselins themselves, absolutely not.

You can keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about what GWoP does.

Most people that post here, drop by and leave their comments and move on. It is evident of the obsession of the people that post on GWoP by the amount of anonymous commenting going on about the same subject.

I think the people who frequent GWoP are more obsessed with this blog then we are. Many times, I will receive a comment and within seconds of posting it someone is responding to it in a very negative, critical way.

quiltinggal said...

I admit I have an obsession to running this blog, but the Gosselins themselves, absolutely not.

I respectfully disagree. I believe the two are interconnected. I know you don't feel that way but as an outsider looking in, it looks that way to others. I have no connection or loyalty to either blog. I read both regularly but don't post to either very often. I just feel that Anya's comment about the people at GWOP having a lot of time on their hands and a single-minded obsession is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.

Guinevere said...

Let's face it. In both places there are a lot of people who spend enormous amounts of time obsessing about the Gosselins.

I know you don't feel that way but as an outsider looking in, it looks that way to others. I have no connection or loyalty to either blog.


Perhaps it's inadvertent or unconscious, but I'm noticing that you seem fond of rhetorical manipulation:

"Let's face it"=you secretly agree with me but won't admit it.

"...it looks that way to others"=I'm not just speaking for myself but a whole large group of people who feel as I do.

Why can't you just own your opinion without playing games and trying to twist things to suggest that everyone feels the way you do? People here geniunely have different opinions from you. We're not pretending or lying to ourselves or anyone else. Honest.

Anya said...

QuiltingGal said..."It's really quite impressive what can be found when one has a lot of time on their hands and a single-minded obsession.

Doesn't that just about sum up both this blog and GWOP? Let's face it. In both places there are a lot of people who spend enormous amounts of time obsessing about the Gosselins. One may be more negative than the other but otherwise they are essentially the same."


Point taken. Even though I have a pretty full life, I do spend a lot of my spare time on this blog, it's fun and I like the people here.

However, if you read my post in it's entirety, I think you will see that I am specifically referring to the gals who are spending time outside of blogging digging up property information, etc., etc. on the Gosselins. If you have read this blog before, you know there are more than a few of us (not everyone, of course) who feel this crosses a line. And, yes, I do wonder about the amount of time they spend on it. It does strike me as a bit obsessive. Actually, even if it takes five seconds, I wouldn't really approve. I believe it crosses a line. Blogging is one thing. Digging into the Gosselins personal business (even if it readily available on the internet), is another in my opinion.

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